When A UFO Shutdown 10 Nuclear Missiles (Witness Interview)

Summary

American Alchemy - Episode: When A UFO Shutdown 10 Nuclear Missiles (Witness Interview)
Host: Jesse Michels
Guest: First Lieutenant Robert Salas
Release Date: July 12, 2025

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1. Introduction to the Incident

In this gripping episode of American Alchemy, host Jesse Michels delves deep into one of the most extraordinary events in military history: the alleged shutdown of 10 nuclear missiles by unidentified flying objects (UFOs) at Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana. Featuring an exclusive interview with First Lieutenant Robert Salas, the episode explores firsthand accounts, investigative challenges, and the broader implications for national security.

2. Robert Salas Shares His Firsthand Experience

[00:00] Robert Salas:
"He's frightened. He's really frightened. He's screaming into the phone... One of the missiles went off alert status or went from green to red, no go, can't launch it. And right after that, one went down. All of them went down one at a time."

Salas recounts the night of March 24, 1967, when unusual lights were reported above Malmstrom Air Force Base. As a missile launch officer, Salas was monitoring the status of the Minuteman missiles when he received frantic calls from guards observing pulsating red and orange lights hovering ominously over the facility.

3. Witness Testimonies and Supporting Evidence

The incident wasn't isolated. Multiple witnesses, including security personnel and local civilians, reported seeing unexplained aerial phenomena coinciding with the missile shutdowns.

[01:22] Robert Salas:
"I am gravely concerned about the situation in Pakistan."

Salas highlights the global tensions surrounding nuclear capabilities, emphasizing the precarious balance of power and the potential catastrophic consequences if such incidents remain unaddressed.

4. Official Responses and Attempts to Discredit

Following the incident, the military initiated an investigation. However, efforts to explain the missile failures as electromagnetic pulse (EMP) tests have been met with skepticism.

[05:47] Robert Salas:
"I think there was a deliberate attempt to discredit my story. And I've got some theories as to why that was done."

Salas criticizes a Wall Street Journal article by Joel Shechtman, accusing it of undermining his credibility by attributing the missile shutdowns to non-operational EMP tests that, according to Salas, were neither happening at the time nor plausible explanations.

5. The Condon Commission and Cover-Ups

The discussion delves into the broader context of UFO investigations, particularly the role of the Condon Commission. Salas argues that the commission was a façade to suppress genuine findings related to UFOs and their potential interference with national security assets.

[36:37] Jesse Michaels:
"The Air Force organized this whole Condon investigation is a whitewash."

Salas provides insights into internal communications, suggesting that higher-ups in the Air Force were intent on maintaining secrecy and discrediting witnesses to protect national security interests.

6. Broader Implications for National Security

The episode underscores the vulnerability of nuclear arsenals to unexplained phenomena, raising alarms about the integrity of nuclear deterrence as the backbone of U.S. national security.

[73:38] Robert Salas:
"The Air Force organized this whole Condon investigation is a whitewash... It's a worldwide organization, well organized, well funded, and it's going to be tough to break through."

Salas emphasizes the urgency of addressing these anomalies, suggesting that without transparency and accountability, the nation remains at risk of unforeseen technological or extraterrestrial interventions.

7. Personal Impact on Robert Salas

The ordeal left Salas disillusioned with the Air Force, leading him to question his career and the integrity of military institutions tasked with safeguarding the nation.

[49:27] Robert Salas:
"Well, I lost confidence in the integrity of the Air Force after that, for sure... and so it changed it in that way."

8. Conclusion and Call to Action

Jesse Michaels wraps up the episode by urging listeners to critically evaluate mainstream narratives and consider the testimonies of military witnesses like Robert Salas. The conversation highlights the need for greater transparency and governmental accountability in addressing unexplained phenomena that could have profound implications for global security.

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Notable Quotes:

• Robert Salas ([00:00]):
  "One of the missiles went off alert status or went from green to red, no go, can't launch it. And right after that, one went down. All of them went down one at a time."

• Robert Salas ([05:47]):
  "I think there was a deliberate attempt to discredit my story. And I've got some theories as to why that was done."

• Robert Salas ([36:37]):
  "The Air Force organized this whole Condon investigation is a whitewash... It's a worldwide organization, well organized, well funded, and it's going to be tough to break through."

• Robert Salas ([49:27]):
  "Well, I lost confidence in the integrity of the Air Force after that, for sure... and so it changed it in that way."

---

This episode of American Alchemy offers a compelling exploration of the intersection between UFO phenomena and nuclear security, challenging listeners to question official explanations and consider the possible ramifications of unexplained aerial activities on national defense systems.

Transcript

[Robert Salas]

He's frightened. He's really frightened. He's screaming into the phone. They said, sir, we got all the guards out. They've got their weapons pointed at this red, orange pulsating light. It's huge. I went over to talk to my commander because now I'm thinking there's something serious going on up there. Before I could tell him about the phone calls, we'd get a big horn go off. One of the missiles went off alert status or went from green to red, no go, can't launch it. And right after that, one went down. All of them went down one at a time.

[Jesse Michaels]

I'd already been trying to get in touch with you and interview you, and then this kind of ridiculous Wall Street Journal piece comes out by this guy named Joel Shechtman. It just seems like a really botched kind of attempt at discrediting you entirely.

[Robert Salas]

Why would they come after me? Well, nuclear deterrence is the backbone of our national security. A short time ago, the US military carried out massive precision strikes.

[Jesse Michaels]

You have Xi and Putin closer than they've ever been. Iran and Israel is really a proxy war for this larger global conflict. You have Pakistan having nukes. Think about the amount of Al Qaeda still in northern Pakistan. That could be a failed state at any moment.

[Robert Salas]

I am gravely concerned about the situation in Pakistan.

[Jesse Michaels]

If there was ever an explicit disclosure moment, it might occur around us being on the brink. If you have another kind of Cuban Missile crisis.

[Robert Salas]

Between September of 66 and March of 67, we lost 30 missiles to UFO activity. 30, 30.

[Jesse Michaels]

Our next guest was a witness of.

[Unknown Host]

One of the most spectacular UFO nuclear related cases which we've ever had. He was stationed at Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana. He was a missile launch officer there, deep underground monitoring a group of 10 Minuteman missiles. In March of 1967, while on duty, he received a call from an extremely frightened topside guard reporting unidentified flying objects glowing red lights hovering above the base. You won't believe what happened next, but the UFO appeared to interact with the nuclear weapons. If this were an isolated incident, it would be one thing.

[Jesse Michaels]

It's not.

[Unknown Host]

It's a repeating pattern. UFOs show up constantly around nuclear weapons in civilian energy grids. The great journalist Robert hastings has documented 167q cleared witnesses in his great book UFOs and Nukes. The link between UFOs and nuclear weapons is ubiquitous and widespread. And our next guest sighting at Malmstrom is one of four different sightings that I am aware of in and around this particular Montana base. This isn't an anomaly. It's a real scientific pattern for those earnestly engaging with the data. For the ones who won't just reflexively look away due to the stigma. Just last month the Wall Street Journal wrote a hit piece attempting to discredit our next guest. They claimed that this whole event he witnessed was due to an experimental test of a non nuclear emp. They cited an EMP model that wasn't even operational in 1967 and claimed that this device was used on our own nuclear weapons with officers like him present. The article made no sense and it really didn't even make an attempt to make any sense. But it was written by a journalist.

[Jesse Michaels]

That says that conspiracies around JFK's death.

[Unknown Host]

Are now fueling a belief in the quote unquote deep state. This journalist also just wrote an article railing against a psyop that marginalized Chinese Covid vaccines.

[Jesse Michaels]

Suffice it to say, I think we.

[Unknown Host]

Have very different worldviews.

[Jesse Michaels]

But as you'll see in this interview.

[Unknown Host]

With my next guest, history might not repeat, but it certainly rhymes. In 1967, they also tried to cover this case up in using some very bad faith tactics. Luckily for us, our next guest has documented the hypocrisy the entire way. And even though the Wall Street Journal wouldn't let this 85 year old veteran publish a full response to defend himself, he does so very eloquently here.

[Jesse Michaels]

So without further ado, I'd like to.

[Unknown Host]

Welcome this week's American alchemist, First Lieutenant Robert Salas.

[Unknown Guest]

Different parts of the brain have different.

[Jesse Michaels]

Activities, but you know that, don't you? Maybe you should interview me. I'm here with Bob Salas. I'm so grateful to be here. I appreciate you having me. I've been kind of citing your experience for the last two or three years on my show. And so it's really cool to finally be in person and be able to hear it directly from you. This couldn't be more timely because I had already been trying to get in touch with you and interview you, and then this kind of ridiculous Wall Street Journal piece comes out by this guy named Joel Shechtman. Clearly he's collaborating very closely, probably too closely, with a guy named Sean Kirkpatrick who's the former head of the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office. And it just seems like a really botched kind of attempt at discrediting you entirely and basically saying that there was an EMP that was wheeled up to Malmstrom Air Force Base where you were first Lieutenant, you were working in the launch control facility. And that is what explains these 10 nuclear missiles going down. So anyways, it's very timely and I'm very grateful to be having this conversation with you.

[Robert Salas]

I'm happy to talk about this. Yes, I think there was a deliberate attempt to discredit my story. And I've got some theories as to why that was done.

[Jesse Michaels]

What are your theories as to why or why don't we do this? Why don't we just get into the core details first of what happened and then lot's going to be referencing that and then from there we can get into theories as to why people are trying to sabotage.

[Robert Salas]

So in 1967, I was assigned to a two man crew. My commander was Fred Mywald. We were both lieutenants at the time and we were assigned an Oscar flight. Which is near Lewistown, Montana. No, I take that back. It's near Roy, Montana, which is about 100 miles to the east of Great Falls and Malmstrom Air Force Base located near Great Falls. So at this site we go underground to what we call the launch control center. And that's where we have all the equipment down there to monitor and launch missiles if necessary. So on this particular evening, March 24, 1967, my commander was taking a rest break. We had a little cut down there. I was in charge of the entire facility. I get a call sometime in the evening, I don't know when exactly. I was probably close to 9pm or so. It was dark out. And the topside guard, which we call a flight security controller, called down and said, sir, I've been seeing some strange lights in the sky overhead, directly over us. They're strange because they're flying very fast, stopping in midair, reversing course, doing 90 degree turns, no engine noise. And sir, these are not airplanes. Airplanes can't do what these lights are doing. So I even said, you mean like UFOs? Because we had actually had newspaper accounts in the Great Falls Tribune of people like farmers and citizens seeing strange lights in the sky at night that week.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah, wasn't there. There was a truck driver and a police officer, if I'm not mistaken, who had also.

[Robert Salas]

Yeah, we'll get to that. That's an important part of this. We can talk about it now if you want. On the same night, and this I think was about 7:30 to 8 in the evening, a truck driver was driving through the town of Belt, Montana, which was about 35 miles to the southeast of Great Falls. And he looks over out his window and sees a bright light that's pacing him, going the same speed, and it's actually blinking at him. And he finds it a little strange. It was just a big white ball of light to him. He stops a truck and, and gets out and watches the light land in a ravine, a large ravine. He goes over there and takes a look, sees it. Then. Then he calls the highway patrol. He wants to get somebody else to look at this thing. And a highway patrolman comes out. He also sees the light. The light comes back up, flies off at high speed and then comes back while the highway patrolman was there. They then call the county sheriffs. They come out, they see, they inspect a little bit of the area where this object landed. They find some broken branches. They all decided to call the Air Force base. We happened to have what was called a UFO officer at the base at the time because of the Condon investigation. Wanted the Air Force to identify certain officers at certain bases to help them with their investigation. And so they identified this particular guy, a man by the name of Lt. Col. Lewis Chase, who was also the base operations officer. So Chase comes out. I don't know if he saw the object or not, but at that time. But he decides that they can't bring a helicopter in that night because they're not trained for night operations in that area. And so he wants to wait till the morning. And in the meantime, there are reports at Malmstrom Air Force Base. Objects are seen on radar, objects are seen by airmen at the base. Again, bright white light flying around Malmstrom Air Force Base. And so Chase decides he needs to report all this and he does in a telegram to Air Force headquarters. And also reports to Edward Condon, writes a couple of reports, I've got copies of them. And they take the statement of the truck driver, etc. And by the way, in the meantime, my missiles are shut down.

[Jesse Michaels]

So you have missile security officers who are top side, they're calling down and they're saying they're seeing.

[Robert Salas]

No, no security officers. These are airmen, you know, the non commissioned officers, NCOs, okay. And they're responsible for the security of the launch control facility. In other words, they. And that's what I told him. So after the first call we just hung up. Because there was no point in talking about lights in the sky. I didn't think.

[Jesse Michaels]

So you were like, what are you talking about? And you hung up and you were like.

[Robert Salas]

Basically I wasn't too interested in what he had to say after that because, you know, he could have been seeing little stars up there. I don't know. But then five minutes later he calls back. And this time he's frightened. He's really frightened. He's screaming into the phone, he's babbling. Can't, I gotta calm him down. Finally I calm him down. He says, sir, we got all the guards out. They've got their weapons pointed at this red, orange light, pulsating light. It's huge, it's, you know, I think he said 40 or some feet long. It was hard to see inside. I said, try to look inside the light and see if there's a solid object in there. He said, it's. It's really difficult because it's so bright, but it looks like there's some kind of a solid object in there. O shaped is what he said. And I said, and then he said, what do I do, sir? You know, I basically told him, I don't remember the exact words, but I basically told him to make sure the security, the facility is secure, that nobody enters the fenced area. You know, basically it's your responsibility, right? And so he hung up. He first said, a guard got injured and I gotta go. The injury I'll talk about later. But it had nothing to do with the ufo. So he hung up. First thing I did is I looked over at our board, our status board that showed the status of each missile, right? And yeah, all the missiles were green at that time, ready to go, ready to launch anytime. I went over to talk to my commander, Fred Miles, taking a rest break, woke him up and started to tell about the phone calls and. Because now I'm thinking there's something serious going on out there. The guy was really scared, really frightened. And before I could tell him about the phone calls, we'd get a big horn go off. One of the missiles went off alert status or went from green to red. No go, can't launch it.

[Jesse Michaels]

Had that ever happened in your career thus far?

[Robert Salas]

I was there for three years. One of them may have gone down for some power problem. We had triple power redundancy, but anyway, but nothing like multiple shutdowns. And right after that one went down, all of them went down. One, one at a time.

[Unknown Host]

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[Jesse Michaels]

So what do you do at that point?

[Robert Salas]

So we jump up, go through our checklist and we also had two of the launch facilities. The launch facilities are where the missiles are actually located. They're about a mile away, mile or two. But at two of them we had incursion lights. Meaning it's possible someone or something was trying to enter those facilities where the missiles were. So I got on the horn or the phone and called upstairs. First thing I asked about was this bright red glowing object and he said it just took off sir. It's gone. But it was there when the missiles went down. But anyway I sent guards out there and they again saw an object above 2 of the launch facilities. Again, bright, bright light hovering just above the facilities. We brought those guys back to where we were and they lost radio contact on the way back. Strange. Anyway, my wall called wing command post report the our incident shut down. You know, requesting maintenance screws to come out because we had a way of querying the system. We would get an audio feedback of what was wrong with each missile. They were all reading guidance and control system failure. So we thought well okay, we got to send a team out there to restart the missiles, each one and retarget them. We had to check the targeting again. But after that call, he hangs up. He turns to me and he says, the same thing happened at another flight. Now, I thought he meant that evening, but what he meant to say was that it happened before, eight days earlier. And that was what we refer to now as the Echo flight incident. We were at Oscar flight and so before.

[Jesse Michaels]

Before we get into the Echo. Yeah, go for it.

[Robert Salas]

Yeah. But the, the reason the Belt siding was important was because when Robert Jameson was called at home to come in to the base, he was asleep. He was called, he said, Around 10, 10:30 in the evening, told to come into the base because there were missile shutdowns you need to work on.

[Bob Jameson]

In March of 1967, I got a call saying a missile went off alert in Oscar flight. That's all the information was given. They said a missile went off alert. So I had called my team together. We went down to the hangar. I no sooner walked into the hangar and a friend of mine walked up to me and says, have you heard what happened? No, I just got here. He says, well, a missile, a ufo, was reported over Roy Montana, which is where Oscar flight was, and all missiles went off alert. And I said, it's not possible. Couldn't happen. So I went to a place called Job Control just to see, just to confirm this. And sure enough, on Job Control, they have a wall and they have green lights where all the missiles are on alert. We had 200 missiles at the time, except for one corner. All 10 missiles were off alert. All 10. The whole flight was off alert, all red. And so then I said, yeah, they were off alert. It doesn't happen.

[Robert Salas]

He was also told that we are on lockdown right now because there's too much UFO activity going on. Like I mentioned, there were overflights of Melstrom Air Force Base.

[Bob Jameson]

They assigned me four missiles to restart. He says, go ahead, get your team ready, but stay here. Don't leave the hangar yet until we sure that all the activity out there has ceased and there's nothing else going on. Then we can release you. So I stayed around for the hangar for a couple of hours and then just before we were released, we had to go into a special briefing. Normally we go into a briefing where they give you your what your job is, the road conditions at the time, weather conditions, anything else we may need to know. This time they brought us into a special briefing and they told us there's UFOs out in the area. Here's what you have to do. If you're on your road and you see a ufo, let us know by radar and go to the nearest launch control facility. And okay, if you're breaking into the site, just break this. Withdraw from the site, let us. Give us a call and let us know what's happening. You see a ufo, however, if you're in the site and you're doing your work, I take myself, my team members, and all our targeting tapes, take them downstairs into the silo, closed silo. And we all take a guard with us. We have to leave him. On top of nothing happened on the way out there. And targeting the restarts, I had four of them. They went rather smoothly. Missiles went right up as if nothing had happened to them. And I came back and then was given another briefing. I was told I wasn't supposed to talk about this, but I am coming out now.

[Robert Salas]

But Jameson was told about the Belt incident.

[Bob Jameson]

The same person that told me the all 10 missiles went off alert also told me that there was a UFO that went down into a canyon near a little town not far from Malmstrom called Belt, Montana. It's a can. There was a canyon there and there was a UFO trapped in the canyon.

[Robert Salas]

And.

[Bob Jameson]

Yeah, yeah, right, right. But he told me I'd go to the command post. He sent him a command, A command post in the Colonel's briefing room. So I went over there and I heard what they were looking at. Had a radio contact with the people out in the field and they were telling me about the lights. And now there's blue lights, now there's green lights. I was looking at the UFO down at the bottom of the canyon. Now they were going, the canyon is too steep to send men down in the night. This is at nighttime. Walls are too steep to send men down at night or even a helicopter down through that. So they're going to take in them as soon as daylight comes, they're going to take some helicopters and go down in there. And I found out later, yeah, as soon as daylight came, they sent the helicopters and this UFO just went right through the helicopters and out between the helicopters and out.

[Jesse Michaels]

That's amazing. So you have Bob Jameson, who is a. He's a targeting officer, is that right?

[Robert Salas]

Right.

[Jesse Michaels]

And then who else came out publicly alongside you to testify to this UFO event?

[Robert Salas]

Well, eventually I got a hold of my commander who was down there with me. He was the crew commander, Fred Mywald. He had retired a full colonel, had a distinguished career in Strategic Air Command headquarters. But of course, he verified the essentials of the story. He didn't remember at the time when I first contacted him exactly how many missiles had gone off alert, but he remembered we did lose missiles during UFO sightings.

[Jesse Michaels]

Did you record that conversation? Or is it public? Or is it just you went, timber?

[Robert Salas]

I recorded it. It's on my website.

[Jesse Michaels]

That's amazing.

[Robert Salas]

Spiralgalaxy.org check it out.

[Unknown Guest]

All right, here's the sequence I remember. I remember receiving a call first and the security guard said, I've seen some UFOs up here flying around. And I said, forget it. You know, I didn't believe him. I kind of hung up on them. And then a little while later, I don't know how long it was, maybe five, ten minutes, maybe longer, they called back. Guy sounded real scared and said there was one just outside the front gate. And he also said, I recall that one of the other guards had gotten injured in some way. I don't think it was from the ufo. I think it was from trying to climb the fence or something like that. And then I hung up. Or he hung up because he had to go. His guard got injured. And then. And then I. I believe you were either getting up or I woke you up. And then some of our missiles started shutting down. Is that right? Is that about how you remember it? Right. We had security alarms and problems at a couple of sites. Yeah. Okay, so I remember the two guards that had gone out to one of the sites. I finally got back scared to death. We had to relieve them of duty. Yeah. Oh, you mean our guards. Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, Rebel patrol type. Oh, I see. He had gone out to one of the sites on the lf and on the way back they lost radio contact and we ended up having to send them back to base earlier. I'm not sure what happened. I don't think they ever returned to guard duty. And what were they scared about? Well, they had seen these crazy things then. Oh, they did? Yeah. They reported that to you? They reported it to the top side guy. Oh, the top side guy, that's right. Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, interesting. What sec?

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah. Does anybody at the time, after this experience come up with a prosaic explanation as to what's happened? Or is everybody basically on the sort of consensus view that there was UFOs appearing and that ostensibly there's some connection between the UFOs appearing above the base and these 10 missiles going down?

[Robert Salas]

There were. One of the documents we received from the Air Force was a telegram or telex about the Echo flight shutdown. Right. It names two individuals by name that worked for Boeing Aircraft. The SAC headquarters wanted people to do a complete investigation of what happened. They use the words, this is of grave concern because we don't have any idea what happened. I've got that telex. This was no test. There was no test involved here. SAC headquarters demanded that Boeing do an investigation.

[Jesse Michaels]

And SAC for everybody is Strategic Air Command.

[Robert Salas]

That's right.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah. No, so they had, they viewed this as a genuine UFO event taking down.

[Robert Salas]

Well, because there were witnesses to the objects being seen over. Over the Echo flight. And also in, in the case of the Echo flight, they had security guards and maintenance people already on site. They had stayed the night because they were going to work on those missiles. And they reported to Walt Feegle UFOs overhead or lights that they couldn't explain. Overhead. When the missiles went down, the strike.

[Unknown Guest]

Team that went out, one of the two claimed that they saw something over the site. How did they describe that? He just said a large round object directly over the LS over the site.

[Unknown Host]

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[Robert Salas]

There were many witnesses. In fact, I mentioned the name Ray Fowler. Ray Fowler was a manager working under Sylvania Corporation. Sylvania had the contract for electrical systems at Malmstrom. And he had people working there, contractors working for him who reported to him that they had seen these objects and that they were involved in the missile shutdowns. So Fowler got this information from his people. He contacts Roy Craig, the chief investigator for Condon, tells him all about it, gives him details, gives him names, dates, places, etc. Phone numbers of his people that can confirm the UFO's connection. And Craig says, okay, I'm going to go out to Malmstrom and check this out. So he goes to Malmstrom and I've got this on audio tape also, by the way, he talks to Lewis Chase, the base ops officer, the base UFO officer, the same guy that went out to Belt, Montana, saw the object out there, wrote two messages, one U.S. air Force headquarters and another one to Condon about the activity. And in one of those he says, I went to the base command post or the wing command post rather, and talked to the officer in charge there. This was the same officer that we had reported our incident to. And he said I coordinated with him on the UFO activity in writing. He's got this in writing. When Craig goes out there to talk to him, Chase, he denies it.

[Unknown Guest]

The following interview conducted by Roy Craig is with Lt. Col. Lewis D. Chase, who is chief of the Operations division at Malmstrom air Force Base, Montana. The interview is being conducted at Malmstrom on October 19, 1967. Now, right about that same time we heard rumbles from other areas that something happened here on the bay related to the failure of the flight of women and men. It's about the 24th of March. And this has this any connection with the UFO business? The rumor, the rumor mill has that there was a UFO socket by one of the SAC maintenance crew who went out to check out why the flight had lost power. As far as the status of the missile site of contract here, I can't discuss it. Dossier Ferry, because what is on alert, what is not for all periods of time? I shouldn't refer you to other people on that. All I can tell you is the. At the time that we had the reported landing, the whole area here we had lots of reports on. But I'm not privy to knowledge of what the status of the missile sites are. You can see this of necessity must be classified and I'm not privy to this type of knowledge. I think the comment that came to us was that some of the maintenance crew who had to check out sites that had lost power. That's unexplained. Well had said they saw a WI fi come down and circle the base in broad daylight or something like that and then this was denied the next day after it had been, you know, and then a big hush up sort of thing. You're not aware of anything of this sort? No, no, this I'm not because I wouldn't know what the status of the, of the missiles were. Now how about it's common for us to have a commercial power failure or something like this. This happens repeatedly such as commercial power does anyway. And I just have a suspicion that some of the commercial power people have. There happened to be a power outage someplace and they tried to tie the two of them together. But this I wouldn't know. But I would suspect this is a real strong possibility.

[Robert Salas]

He didn't know he was knowing anything about it.

[Jesse Michaels]

Why did he do that?

[Robert Salas]

He did that because he did not want Condon investigators snooping around and putting in their report that UFOs had shut down missiles.

[Jesse Michaels]

Do you think somebody got to him? Like what, did he have some ulterior motive? Why would he want, why would he want to deny, you know, the committee that he's supposedly working for access to an event that seems like it's because.

[Robert Salas]

The Air Force organized this whole Condon investigation is a white wash. It was whitewashed even before they got started. There's a famous letter written by the deputy decod and Robert Lowe who wrote a memo stating that it was going to appear to be a scientific investigation but indeed they would find nothing. And then there was another letter that Chase had written after having a big meeting in June of 67 with other base UFO officers and the Condon investigative team stating that the, the wording, the final wording for the Condon investigation would read, you know, nothing to see here.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah, I believe there are letters too between Colonel Robert Hippler of the Air Force and Condon. And basically Hitler's saying like I want you to show that this was all a waste of time and money. He's talking about Blue Book and Condon sort of complying with that. So it seemed like a kind of a hit job from the start.

[Robert Salas]

It was a whitewash.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah.

[Robert Salas]

So in fact it was Hitler. When after this meeting which I've between Craig and Lewis, Craig went to Lowe and said maybe we ought to get the report on their investigation. And Lowe said later on, he replied, he said, I've already talked to Hitler. Hitler said this is probably going to be too high, highly classified for us to look at. And plus Hitler told him they think the Air Force thinks that EMP from nuclear testing was the cause of these shutdowns.

[Jesse Michaels]

Really?

[Robert Salas]

Yes, really.

[Jesse Michaels]

Back then.

[Robert Salas]

Back then, back. Oh, I've got it in writing.

[Jesse Michaels]

That's wild. Interesting. Any specifics on like the, the model or anything or.

[Robert Salas]

When I read that, when we read that, my investigative. James Klotz, who's a co author of that first book we wrote, Gentlemen Still Living. We checked with the Department of Energy who was in charge of, well, cognizant of nuclear testing being done in the Nevada desert. Right Time. There were no nuclear tests on March 16 or March 24, so it couldn't have been EMP from a nuclear test.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah, and that's, I think, you know, I got into this whole squabble online or whatever where people are saying there were EMPs at Starfish prime in 62 or whatever and there, there are EMPs that are caused by nuclear deton.

[Robert Salas]

Yes.

[Jesse Michaels]

But my understanding is that operational non nuclear EMPs weren't. Maybe at most they were, you know, undergoing extremely preliminary investigation at DOE sensitive sites, but they weren't being used, let alone on our own nukes, live nukes. There's no way.

[Robert Salas]

Absolutely not. In fact, in our book again, Faded Giant, we talk about references, we list the references, actually, people can look them up. Of testing that was done on our kind of equipment. But it was done at a base like Space Missile Systems Organization in San Bernardino, Hill Air Force Base in Utah. But it was not operational equipment. I mean the equipment wasn't operational, but it was the type of equipment we had. Right. They did want to do authentic tests and to see what impact was. Now we're talking about something like the production of 6 million volts of electricity in EMP discharge. We're also talking about equipment that was not mobile. In order to produce this emp, they had to set up a superstructure to hold the generating device that would fire 6 million volts. And that took time to build. I mean it took at least three days from what I understand.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah, you can't install that in secret. Even in the diagram in the Wall Street Journal. It was like a 60 foot test stand or whatever was required to uphold the EMP. And the idea that that would get wheeled up to the gate without, you know, any of these, you know, officers understanding that the EMP was there and not being Freaked out about some ufo?

[Robert Salas]

Well, they would have reported it. The guards upstairs would have reported any activity like that.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah, it makes no sense. And it's interesting to see the Wall Street Journal use the same cover story as Robert Hippler used back then. That's, you know, kind of.

[Robert Salas]

Well, kind of. Hitler stated to low, apparently. And I've got this in writing, a handwritten note by Robert Lowe that he talked to Hitler and Hitler told him the Air Force thinks that EMP from nuclear testing was the cause of the shutdown.

[Jesse Michaels]

That's even better because that's like, that's like Roswell where they have, you know, it's like a weather balloon. And then it's like these, you know, Huntington's disease children using, you know, an experimental Nazi craft. It's like they changed the story like five times. So it sounds like back then it was a nuclear detonation. Now it's a test emp, the exact model of which cited by the Wall Street Journal wasn't actually tested until 71 and ready until 1973.

[Robert Salas]

Right.

[Jesse Michaels]

So it's absolutely crazy. Interesting. Yeah. They got to get their story straight if you're going to debunk.

[Robert Salas]

Well, Boeing also did a bench test on what's called the logic coupler. Okay, the logic coupler is. Think of it as an onboard computer that would take data from onboard instruments after the launch of the missile Minuteman 1. Again, an inertial guidance system. We didn't have GPS satellites up there guiding this thing on target. Right. It had to compute how well it was doing to get on target Right. In flight. And this logic coupler would help with that processing. So Boeing took that piece of hardware and did a bench test and were able to momentarily cycle it off by injecting a certain energy or electrical input, certain frequency, voltage duration, and basically cause it to malfunction momentarily and cause the guidance system to shut down.

[Jesse Michaels]

Interesting.

[Robert Salas]

So they suggested it as a possible cause of the failure mode guidance and control system failure. However, they had no idea on how that could be injected into this each missile separately within seconds and shut each missile down so quickly because number one, we had what's called these large cable, but 8 to 9 inch in diameter. They were triply shielded. They went from the location we were the capsule underground for another mile or so. But they were triply shielded against emi electromagnetic interference. And so they did say in this report that they think it was an externally caused. It was an external signal that caused the shutdowns. But they could not explain how that signal got into the system.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah. So Boeing goes in, they test it, and presumably they're using whatever state of the art methods exist at the time as far as shutting down nukes. And they're going directly after the accelerometers, these inertial mass units. And they can show that they could do it in one, but that doing it simultaneously in 10 is impossible. And they admit to being puzzled afterwards that they're brought in as consultants. They are paid presumably to, you know, success for them is explaining it in a prosaic fashion. That's how they're judged. And they're unable to do that.

[Robert Salas]

Yeah, they were identified, these two. The individuals that did this testing were identified by SAC headquarters by name. They wanted those two people to do these, you know, to do part of the investigation. But we were in contact. James Quatz and I made contact with them, talked to them, and they said that they couldn't explain how that signal could have possibly have gotten in there.

[Unknown Host]

Hey, everyone, Jesse here.

[Jesse Michaels]

Let's talk about something.

[Unknown Host]

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[Jesse Michaels]

It's true.

[Unknown Host]

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[Jesse Michaels]

How did you, after that, did you live your life differently outside of having experienced this highly anomalous event and probably being questioned about it and wanting to get the message out that maybe we're. We're not alone? You know, outside of that, did it change your perspective on life or, you know, change your view, your worldview in any kind of profound ways?

[Robert Salas]

Well, I lost confidence in the integrity of the Air Force after that, for sure. You know, I had planned a career in the Air Force, and after this, I wasn't quite so sure I wanted to do that. And so it changed it in that way.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

And Malmstrom is no stranger to incidents like these.

[Jesse Michaels]

Right. So eight days before you mentioned the Echo flight incident, what exactly happened there?

[Robert Salas]

Echo flight. Walt Fiegel, again, a lieutenant at the time, later colonel, retired as far as I know. Still living. Talked to him about a year ago, I think, but he was in. He was in charge of the facility. And one of the missiles gets shut down. One of the missiles where he had guards and security, well, maintenance people and security people out at two of the launch facilities. They had stayed overnight because they were going to start early the next morning and do some kind of modification to these missiles. He calls out there and says, you guys aren't supposed to do anything without my permission. And they said, we didn't do anything. By the way, these objects are hovering just above us. And at first he couldn't believe what they were saying, but. But very shortly after that, all 10 of his missiles went down wild.

[Jesse Michaels]

So very similar.

[Robert Salas]

Similar, yeah. And then I want to tell you about an incident that happened in 1966, September of 1966, at Minot Air Force Base, North Dakota. Not in Montana. This is just North Dakota. Again, another witness has come forward, man by the name of David Shindell, who relieved the crew. But before they relieved the crew, he talked to the security people upstairs, who told him that UFOs were seen over the facility the night before when they got down to relieve the crew. All 10 missiles have been shut down.

[Jesse Michaels]

After entering the capsule. Our eyes were immediately transfixed on the launch control council, which showed that all missiles were off alert and unlaunchable. We had never seen such a thing before. The outgoing crew briefed us on the wild events that transpired overnight and indicated that the missiles malfunctioned. At the time, the object was hovering directly above the capsule and next to the main gate.

[Robert Salas]

And again, this was as a result of the UFO activity above the facility. So we're talking between September of 66 and March of 67, we lost 30 missiles to UFO activity.

[Jesse Michaels]

It's wild. Yeah. 30, 30. That's pretty, pretty insane. And Malmstrom itself, I mean, even Robert Hastings, who wrote this, you know, probably the authoritative chronicle of all of the UFO events when it comes to nuclear weapons, UFO and nukes.

[Robert Salas]

Great book.

[Jesse Michaels]

He was a janitor at Malmstrom Air Force Base, I believe, in 67. And he, I guess this, like, radar operator had taken him under his wing and was teaching him about radar theory and brought him over. They said they were tracking unknowns at the time.

[Robert Salas]

One night, and as best as I can tell, it was the second half of March of 67, was emptying trash cans and pushing a broom, and he motioned me over to his scope and he pointed. He said, we're tracking. And he probably said unknowns. That's the formal term for unknown identified objects. I saw five blips in the sort of northeast quadrant of his radar scope.

[Jesse Michaels]

And then he thinks that that might have been around the same time as. As your incident.

[Robert Salas]

It could have been. I believe his father worked in that facility.

[Jesse Michaels]

That's right, yeah.

[Robert Salas]

This was part of the NORAD organization, right?

[Jesse Michaels]

Yep.

[Robert Salas]

That would monitor the skies for possible incoming, you know, bombers or whatever hanging from the U.S. but, yeah, that's. That's true.

[Jesse Michaels]

And then I believe in 1993, there's a now retired missile technician, a guy named John Mills, who was headed, I think, with, you know, some four other guys. They had left the base and they're headed towards Malmstrom. They saw a UFO hovering around Malmstrom. They get back to the base, and apparently everybody there said that the base had been swarmed. And so. And then there's there's even. There are other. There's a guy named Chris Langan who's known for having this sort of theory of everything in physics, which, you know, maybe take that with a grain of salt. I don't know how real that is, but, you know, maybe he's got a big ego. I don't know if the theory is real. I don't think he's lying about the fact that he said he was driving past, you know, near Malmstrom and he sees a UFO right ahead on the UFO thing.

[Robert Salas]

I was working for the Forest Service not too far from Malmstrom Air Force Base. One day I was up there in a Forest Service pickup truck at a certain campground and I was there and suddenly I look up and I say, suddenly it was just in the sky. I became aware that it was up there and I looked up. There's this huge spheroidal, but elliptical, not a perfect spheroid like a saucer that was turned partially on its side.

[Jesse Michaels]

So it just seems like there's a real pattern over time with Maelstrom, even.

[Robert Salas]

Though the Air Force tried to get out of in 1969. They even quoted the Condon investigation, said that we have no evidence that UFOs cause are a cause of national security concern and therefore we're going to shut down Blue Book. We're not going to be reporting to the public on UFO sightings and we're probably not going to do much investigating ourselves. Well, incidents continued to occur, you know, again in 1975 at Malmstrom. There is NORAD report of UFO sightings again over Malmstrom missile basis, 1968. I've listed about 13 in my book, incidents involving nuclear weapons and UFO.

[Jesse Michaels]

And when you did come out and go public, you've done interviews with Larry King and you've spoken at various conferences all over the world. Did you receive any backlash and did you experience any resistance about your testimony?

[Robert Salas]

I never have.

[Jesse Michaels]

That's pretty remarkable. Do you have a theory as to why? Because some of your colleagues who have gone public, people like Bob Jacobs, photo instrumentation specialist at Vandenberg in 64. He's experienced obviously a lot of reprisals and you know, took a career, such a career hit that they denied he ever even worked at Vandenberg and was, you know, even involved, you know, in the Air Force.

[Robert Salas]

Yeah, my. I'm just speculating again. Why? Because I did sign a non disclosure agreement which basically I violated when I started going public about my incident being at Oscar flight. I didn't find that out until 1996 when I finally contacted. I was able to contact my commander, Fred Mywald, and he told me we were not at Echo flight, we were at Oscar flight. I've been speaking about the Echo Flight incident as though it was mine because it was so similar to what I had recalled. But once he told me that, I realized I was in violation of the NDA and I had to make a decision as to whether I should shut up, no longer talk about it or keep going. Keep talking about it. And I decided to keep going.

[Jesse Michaels]

Did they make you sign an NDA around this specific incident or just working, really?

[Robert Salas]

Yes.

[Jesse Michaels]

And that's what everybody says. That's what Mario woods says. That's what, you know, everybody who experiences the incident right after they make you sign an NDA.

[Robert Salas]

Right.

[Jesse Michaels]

And do you remember what the NDA said or like what, what that was like, like who came up to you and said, you have to sign this?

[Robert Salas]

Yeah. Right. After we were relieved by another crew after our incident occurred, we were ordered back to the base, to our squadron commander's office. Walked in there and first thing I asked, by the way, my squadron commander was an EX World War II B17 pilot, tough as nails, he was white as a sheet. And I asked him what the hell happened there? I, you know, at our incident, was this some kind of an Air Force test to see, you know, how we'd respond or anything like that? He said, absolutely not. There was no test involved. He didn't know anything more than I did. And by the way, he introduced me to a man from afosi, Air Force Office of Special Investigation who was in the office with him. And all he wanted was to have us sign a non disclosure agreement. I complained about that because we already had above top secret. You know, if they told us not to talk about this, we wouldn't, you know.

[Jesse Michaels]

But that seems like a recurring pattern as an Air Force office with special Investigation agent always shows up around nuclear UFO incidents and then swears you to secrecy.

[Robert Salas]

Right.

[Jesse Michaels]

So that's, yeah, it just seems like this pattern that's fascinating.

[Robert Salas]

They want to clamp down on witnesses.

[Jesse Michaels]

Are you familiar with, have you heard of the Pentacle Memo? Do you know what that is?

[Robert Salas]

No.

[Jesse Michaels]

So this was Jacques Vallee, who was kind of J. Allen Hynek's assistant, you know, Blue Book, obviously. J. Allen Hynek is this, you know, Northwestern professor, astronomer. So Jacques Vallee is looking through the Blue Book files and he finds this thing called the Pentacle Memo, which is this guy named Howard Seacross, who is a guy who works at Battelle Memorial Institute. And he is writing basically saying, like, we have all these sensitive sites around which UFOs are showing up regularly and we know that these hotspots exist and Battelle is going to do a more surgical, real investigation of these things while basically, you know, Blue Book is going to go on doing its kind of front, front facing kind of BSPR job and Jacques Fillet. And apparently this couldn't get brought up around the Robertson panel. Like there's, you're, you were not supposed to bring this, this memo up. And so Jacques Vallee goes to jail and Heineck privately and says, did you know about this? Like, you know, are you, are you kind of complicit in basically concealing, you know, our, what's supposed to be this earnest UFO inquiry from this actually real vital investigation that's going on around, you know, nuclear sites across the US And Jalen Hynek kind of plays dumb and says, you know, I didn't know about it and stuff, but I do wonder sometimes, you know, especially when you hear this very coordinated effort that involves Air Force officers, special investigations agents. Was there something underneath Blue Book, underneath the Cognon, you know, commission that was very real about, you know, there was a real UFO investigation going on at the time.

[Robert Salas]

Oh, absolutely. No question about it. I mentioned that, you know, since probably 47, there's been an attempt to seriously cover up anything that was found related to UFOs, you know, such as craft that were retrieved or non human intelligences that were retrieved and those were studied and worked on in secret. Well, like you say, organizations like Blue Book were just kind of a way to quell public excitement over this subject.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah. At what point do you think the Air Force made that decision to split off kind of, you know, this front facing facade, Blue Book, and then more vital investigations of UFOs? Was it around the Robertson panel in 1952 maybe, or.

[Robert Salas]

Okay, so in 1948 there was a. And this was the precursor to Blue Book, it was called Project Sign. Right. People that were working on that had come up with enough information, pilot reports, et cetera, to conclude that these were extraterrestrial objects, they were not manufactured on Earth and they wanted. And so the Air Force Chief of Staff, Hoyt Vandenberg, wanted a briefing and so they produced a briefing for him called the Estimate of the Situation. It was a real document. It was seen by Ruppelt, who would be the next head of Blue Book, the first head of Blue Book, really, after Project Sign. And he read the thing and he confirmed in his book. I've got a copy of his book that he wrote.

[Jesse Michaels]

Ruppelt wrote his report on the unidentified object.

[Robert Salas]

Yeah, yeah. And he confirmed that they had strong evidence that these were not aircraft that we knew how to build because their abilities to maneuver, maneuvering abilities, and confirmed this must have been from elsewhere, all for us.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah, well, you had Nathan Twining writing in this 1947 memo to this guy, Brigadier Shulgren, and he's saying, you know, UFOs are not visionary or fictitious. He even says in the postscript of the memo, we have within our means or within our knowledge the ability to build these crafts. But if we were to do that, if directed, these would need to basically look like the Manhattan Project. They need to take place in a wholly separate compartment from existing projects and kind of exist very sub rosa in this sort of secret compartment.

[Robert Salas]

But anyway, Vandenberg didn't buy this estimate of the situation and basically informed Blue Book that, you know, they're full of it. They're. They're going to tamp down on any, any idea that these could be extraterrestrial. And, and so they changed the whole fabric of Blue Book after that had turned into a Project Grudge, I think it was called. Yeah, after Blue Book. And that's when they started doing more disinformation. And again from the Robertson panel, too. The directive was, keep an eye on UFO groups that are looking at this, these reports. Let's infiltrate them. Let's, you know, do whatever we can to keep the public from getting too excited about all this.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah.

[Robert Salas]

To this day.

[Jesse Michaels]

Right. So we just talked about the Condon Commission, which was very interesting. You know, supposed to be this impartial study that the Air Force was supposed to have no involvement with. And, you know, they were going to objectively evaluate the results of Blue Book. I think we both know that might actually not have been the case. It might have been sort of a bad faith effort. Talk. Talk to us about that, because that's. I didn't even realize, you know, I've been talking about your story for a while because it's such a remarkable case. And I didn't even realize how much the Condon Commission kind of tied in, you know, with the officer there and. Yeah.

[Robert Salas]

Well, let me just start with this. In 1949, I believe it was, J. Edgar Hoover wrote a letter to Congress. I'm not sure it was McCarthy or not, but in that letter he identified Edward Condon as, and I'm paraphrasing, nothing less than a Russian spy. I've got a copy of that letter. And so Conan, who had been actually part of the Manhattan Project, he was number two man under, under Oppenheimer. But there was a security issue. I don't know the details of that, but he was asked to resign from the Manhattan Project because of some security issue. And so he did resign. But later he was appointed, not sure, the agency, but by Truman, he was appointed to some head of agency. And then this letter comes out from Hoover. And so he was questioned by, during the McCarthy hearings. And eventually he lost his security clearance as a result of that. And so he went to work for the University of Colorado as a physicist. He was a very good physicist, well respected. And at some point, I think this was a. Someone who knew him, Lou Branscom.

[Jesse Michaels]

Lou Branscom, yeah.

[Robert Salas]

Yeah. He came to visit Condon and said, you know, and this was in the. Around 1966, I think it was. He said, you know, it's been a while since, since you lost your security clearance. Maybe it's time you reapplied to see if you can get that clearance back, because I know you want to do some research and get some government funding for it. And he said, well, he wasn't sure this would be a successful. But Branscomb told him, you know, the Air Force needs someone to head up this UFO study, and it would help if you accepted that and probably help you get your security clearance anyway. That's the background. I don't know what actually happened there, but Conan actually gave an interview to the Physical Society or Physical.

[Jesse Michaels]

American Institute of Physics.

[Robert Salas]

Thank you. American Institute of Physics. He gave a long interview, and I think this was discussed in that interview.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah, well, it's funny, in that interview, he talks about Lou Branscombe. Just randomly goes up to him, he says, hey, maybe you should get your security clearance back. No explanation. And Branscombe is deep in the kind of defense, you know, elite apparatus of the US at the time. He's a part of the Jason Advisory Group, which is, you know, this group that's meeting in Santa Barbara, talking about the most kind of elite frontier weaponry, you know, defensive and offensive. And so he, he goes to, to, to Condon, says, maybe you should get your security clearance back. The interviewer in this American Institute of Physics interview with Condon then says, why'd you need your security clearance? Like, if all this stuff was bogus, were you, you know, reviewing any sort of classified material as part of the Condon, you know, commission? And he gets very awkward and he says, well, you know, maybe there was a video or two. I don't really know, you know, sort of like walking back, you know, his stuff. And it's interesting, I didn't know that about the J. Edgar Hoover letter about him, but I did know that a guy named Guy Hoddle, who's an FBI field agent in Washington, is basically creating a dossier on condon throughout the 50s after he loses his Q clearance. And he did clash with Leslie Groves six weeks into the Manhattan Project because he wanted, you know, more openness around nuclear stuff. And so that's why he was fired. And so that brings up this line in the movie Oppenheimer, where Leslie Groves, his character, he says, you know, I didn't hire Oppenheimer in spite of his communist sympathies. I hired him because of them. And I think about this guy in Condon who's been marginalized. You know, he's lost his queue clearance. They said that, you know, he had labor sympathies in the 20s or whatever, and then they just randomly give him his clearance back. You know, they. And they have all this compromise on them through Guy Hoddle. I mean, who. I couldn't pick a better person to do your dirty work as far as kind of doing a hit job on. On the whole UFO thing.

[Robert Salas]

Right.

[Jesse Michaels]

It's fascinating also, you know, he wrote the McMahon Secrecy act, which was in 1946. A lot of the language in that act worked its way into the Atomic energy Act of 1954. And so he's kind of laid out the secrecy protocols for UFOs. And then, so it's this weird history with Condon. It's just fascinating.

[Robert Salas]

Yeah.

[Jesse Michaels]

Do you think that that's going on at all today? Because you, you know, you have this Wall Street Journal article coming out saying that an EMP was, you know, somehow wheeled up to, you know, Malmstrom in plain sight. Of all of these people who claim to witness a ufo, they don't even report on the witnessing of the ufo. They just discard that entirely. It just seems like a hit job like this doesn't seem like an earnest, impartial accounting of the facts that you relayed to them.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[Robert Salas]

Let's talk a little bit about that. Why would they come after me? Well, I can think of the rationale that would go this way. The basis of our national security, so says the Department of Defense on a yearly basis when they put out their Nuclear Posture Review, it's basically a statement about nuclear weapons, is that nuclear deterrence is the backbone, the basis of our national security, nuclear deterrence. So if I start, you know, coming forward and speaking about strange objects that are able to disable our nuclear weapons, of course that's going to require the Department of Defense to explain what they're doing about it, if anything, whether they can do anything about it. And they've also already said no nuclear deterrence, which is the Concept started in the 50s by the way, that says if we have a preponderance of nuclear weapons more than any other nation, or at least as much, no nation will attack us with nuclear weapons or even non nuclear weapons. And so we've used that rationale. That rationale caused the arms race during the Cold War right to the point where in 1967 the world nuclear powers had a 32,000, 32,000 nuclear weapons. Now these weapons range, you know, in the kiloton range to megaton or million tons of TNT equivalent, but certainly enough to destroy every living thing on earth if we use them in a nuclear war. And we still have 20,000 today total. We've got nine nuclear nations and everybody's afraid now that Iran will get one.

[Jesse Michaels]

That's right.

[Robert Salas]

And the fact is that, you know, with a, an effort it's nuclear weapons are probably, could probably be accessed by any country that really wants them because the technology is out there. How to build a nuclear bomb is out there. In fact I once saw a website that went through all the details on how to do that.

[Jesse Michaels]

Jesus.

[Robert Salas]

Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so I don't think the reason they would want to discredit people like myself, Dave Shindell and many other witnesses to this phenomenon where UFOs have been interacting at nuclear weapons facilities. I've only tested surface with those 13 that I mentioned in my book. There have been many, many others. I've been in touch with witnesses who are afraid to come forward or can't come forward because of non disclosure agreements and fear of losing their jobs or their lives, whatever. But there are many other witnesses out there that could come forward to talk about incidents that happened where they were involved.

[Jesse Michaels]

Have you met any witnesses who have not been public and kind of fear for their lives or reputations and confide in you around this stuff?

[Robert Salas]

Yes.

[Jesse Michaels]

Have you met any that also have nuclear incidents? Nuclear related?

[Robert Salas]

Yes.

[Jesse Michaels]

Have you met any that have seen craft in hangars on the ground or are they all aerial witnessings of UFOs?

[Robert Salas]

Well, what I can tell you is that I had something happen to me where I met one of my friends from the Air Force Academy who indicated to me that he had actually flown a craft similar to a UFO that operated under similar principles.

[Jesse Michaels]

Wow. Was in his belief it was of non human origin or it was like in some sort of gravity modifying craft that we had built.

[Robert Salas]

We didn't get into those details, but let's just say I believed him. And so I think we have back engineered craft that have been recovered.

[Jesse Michaels]

That's Wild. Did he say anything about the experience of flying it? Like the G Force or the.

[Robert Salas]

He was pretty excited, but the way it went down, it was very quick. He was. He didn't want to go into details. Obviously this was highly classified and he was concerned about my knowing about it after he said it. You know that one friend who somehow.

[Jesse Michaels]

Knows everything about money?

[Robert Salas]

Yeah.

[Jesse Michaels]

Now imagine they live in your phone.

[Robert Salas]

Say hey to Experian, your big financial friend.

[Jesse Michaels]

It's the app that helps you check your finances, psycho score, find ways to save, and basically feel like a financial genius. And guess what? It's totally free. So go on, download the Experian app.

[Robert Salas]

Trust me, having a BFF like this.

[Jesse Michaels]

Is a total game changer. But you feel like he was trustworthy?

[Robert Salas]

Absolutely. I spent four years going through the academy with him.

[Jesse Michaels]

Wow. Well, that's always.

[Robert Salas]

I knew him very well. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse Michaels]

So it's not your limited hangout at a UFO conference. You get targeted with some info or whatever. This is a long, trusted friend who opens up to you towards the end of that four year period around this.

[Robert Salas]

Oh, it was after.

[Jesse Michaels]

It was after.

[Robert Salas]

Oh, yeah. I was out of the Air Force at the time.

[Jesse Michaels]

So how long had you known him before he confided in you around this?

[Robert Salas]

Well, I. I'd say, well, we went through four years together and this was about 10 years after graduation.

[Jesse Michaels]

Well, I won't push you farther, but if he wants to go public at any point, I would talk to him. That is fascinating.

[Robert Salas]

Yeah. But I. Let's just say I know other witnesses who could come forward and validate some of these things.

[Jesse Michaels]

It's so interesting. I mean, yeah, clearly even you look at Robert Hastings book and you have 167Q cleared guys who all had to sign NDAs immediately after their sightings, many of whom faced career reprisals. You have to think if 167 people who are coming out, despite all the disincentives to come out, it's gotta be thousands of actual witnesses and people who in reality have experienced things around nuclear specifically alone.

[Robert Salas]

There have been many. Many, yes.

[Jesse Michaels]

And it's so interesting too. Sometimes you'll hear about a UFO story in the lore, like the aerial school sighting in 1994 with UF 60 school children in Zimbabwe. And you learn that there's a uranium mine right there. Where? The Pascagoula, the fishermen in Pascagoula, you know, and 74. And then you realize that all the, you know, Navy nuclear subs were being built in Pascagoula, Missouri. So there's often this kind of unknown connection too. Do you think that it's, you know, we were talking about theories before the cameras were rolling. Do you think that they're trying to save us from ourselves and make us realize our sort of brutish ways? Do you think that it generalizes beyond nuclear to like, you know, advanced science like particle accelerators or AI or you know, any other things like that? Or do you think it's just nuclear? What do you think?

[Robert Salas]

Well, what I think is they see us as very warlike and, and with nuclear weapons we could, we could have a nuclear war. I mean it's not out of the realm of possibility now. I think what's happening in currently with Iran and Israel, you know, we can, we can all visualize how that could escalate into the use of, of nuclear weapons.

[Jesse Michaels]

I. Yeah, go for it. Now what are you going to say?

[Robert Salas]

Yeah, we also have Pakistan and India who are at war with each other, both nuclear powers. Russia has threatened to use so called tactical nukes against Ukraine. But even if a small nuke like a. And by that we're talking about these tactical nukes are 15 to 20 kilotons equivalent TNT and that's the same size nuke that was used at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah, it's a scary state. We're in a multipolar nuclear world. You know, it's funny, I feel like Cold war tensions have died down in some ways as far as like the zeitgeist, you know, that sort of dive, duck and roll like we're not mentally prepared. But it's actually worse than, you know, maybe prelin Wall falling where all of a sudden you have Xi and Putin closer than they've ever been. Iran and Israel is really a proxy war for this larger kind of global conflict. You have Pakistan having nukes which think about the amount of Al Qaeda still in Waziristan, northern Pakistan, that could be a failed state at any moment. I think Obama was quoted as saying that keeps him up more than anything at night that Pakistan becoming a failed state. So the amount of threat vectors around nuclear specifically are growing. Sometimes I think, I don't know if you think this too, that if there was ever an explicit disclosure moment, it might occur around us being on the brink. If you have another kind of Cuban missile crisis or an event where nukes are about to go off and you have more explicit intervention like the intervention you saw at Malmstrom in 67, but around missiles that are maybe about to go off or something that might bring the kind of collective world into greater understanding around these things. I don't know.

[Robert Salas]

So in 1914, H.G. wells wrote this book called the World Set Free. And in that book he talks about the construction of an atomic bomb. Yeah, and not only that, but he talks about in different terms, but the generation of. Of energy or electricity from a nuclear reactor. He even predicted dates which are close. The first nuclear reactor went online in Russia in 1954. And I think he mentions in this novel the World Set Free, it happened in 55, I think in, in this book, but even talks about the first time on a splitting of the atom and something like the transmutation which occurred creating two different elements by the splitting of the atom, which actually happened. That was. Happened to be a Nazi scientist by the name of Hahn, I think, who did an experiment in 1938 and was first to split the atom. And plus they detected a certain amount of energy from that reaction that could be enormous if many atoms were split in very short order, which was a chain reaction. Right. Which was later done. But anyway, this book became the reason that it was brought to the attention by Einstein and another fellow who's a name I can't remember right now, but they wrote to FDR for a meeting about the possibility that Germany could build an atomic bomb. And that's what started the process of having our own program, the Manhattan Project, to beat Nazi Germany to the bomb.

[Jesse Michaels]

It's so fascinating. Yeah, the history is so amazing. And you know, the Germans really seemed ahead of us for a while. They were worried. Heisenberg was known as this genius at the time and he was running the German program. And then Luis Walter Alvarez at the Livermore Lab, you know, figured out that, you know, maybe, maybe we could do this too. And then it seems like they went off on the wrong path and really started experimenting with this heavy water engine, you know, sort of deuterium. And that ended up not working out. But. But who knows? You know, this is really trippy and weird, but it's just a connection I made is a lot of the rumors around, you know, UFOs and how they fly involve a deuterium reactor, you know, in the middle, like a heavy water engine. And so I wonder if, you know, one timeline is like super destructive where we figure out the nuclear bomb and then maybe, maybe Heisenberg was like onto something that involved civil side propulsion or something. And then that's where the, that's what the ETs or whatever these beings are, the non human, you know, beings are flying around in.

[Robert Salas]

Right. Well, you know, I like to conjecture that since these are very advanced beings, if they were able to travel intergalactically or, you know, from another star system, that they've been through this process of developing weapons of mass destruction, maybe fought wars themselves. But we're finally able to determine how to live in peace with their neighbors and they want to see us accomplish the same thing and get rid of our nuclear weapons and try to learn how to live in peace.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah. Is there a science fiction book that most accurately describes your worldview or do you think. Yeah. Do you have a sense of the intention of the non human intelligence? I mean, it sounds like you think that they're trying to kind of wake us up a little bit, but.

[Robert Salas]

Well, I mean, to me, I'm just using logic. I'm thinking if they're so far advanced than us, they must have been through the same evolutionary process or a similar process where they had difficulty dealing with other groups, other life forms, and possibly had wars like we have had. And they can see where we're headed if we keep down this path. Like I said, the Department of Defense uses this idea of nuclear deterrence or having a nuclear weapons program that's greater, better than anyone else as a means to protect our national security. That's the basis. And so they want to keep the nuclear program going with nuclear weapons, you know, and put the fear in everybody else that might try to attack us. And that's. But that's not sustainable. That's not a sustainable program. If other countries feel the same way. Right. Because they're going to want nuclear weapons too. And they have.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah. It's a scary time.

[Robert Salas]

Right.

[Jesse Michaels]

It's hard to say where this all leads or goes. But like probabilistically, if you don't have non human intelligence in the mix, then you'd assume some sort of nuclear calamity, you know, near term. Like, it's hard to say that. Like if you have, what'd you say, 20,000 nukes now and you know, approximately. An increasingly kind of Balkanized, complex web of alliances, you know, with tensions rising.

[Robert Salas]

Right.

[Jesse Michaels]

It doesn't feel good.

[Robert Salas]

No, it's not good.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah.

[Robert Salas]

And so that's why we have to make the effort to try to abolish them worldwide. The salt, I think it was. No, it's called a New START Treaty. When President Obama was in office actually signed a treaty with Russia to reduce the number of operational nuclear weapons, I think it was 1500 each. So each country would have 1500 and then work towards reducing them until we got to zero. Both the US And Russia. And of course, there was an inspection regime where they would send inspectors here, we would send inspectors there to see what was going on in each country with the reduction of nuclear weapons. So there was an active program to go to zero between two of the major players in nuclear weapons. So we can't just assume this can't be done. As Oppenheimer said in one of his last speeches that he gave to his scientists, we can't afford to think that we can't abolish all nuclear weapons.

[Jesse Michaels]

Well, yeah, you had the SALT talks as well in the 70s, and you had back channels that JFK had established with Khrushchev, where he was trying for detente and trying for denuclearization. And you had guys like Allen Dulles, who he had fired, director of the CIA, who basically wanted to take him out, whether he did or not. You know, I think he might have, but, you know, around. Around that issue. And then, yeah, like you said, Obama had that initiative. But then you look at the same forces kind of behind Obama, and you had this Ukraine peace deal in April of, you know, 2022, right after it started. And, you know, we have not done Ukraine any favors by telling them not to sign that deal. You know, they've lost hundreds of thousands of people, and maybe it's some strategy to, like, tire out, you know, Russia or something, but it doesn't seem like Putin's very happy with us. You have Medvedev, you know, former president on Twitter saying, you know, this is, you know, this is going to get really bad. You know, it's like really suggestive videos that he's posting and stuff. And so, yeah, it's a weird time. This is kind of a crazy segue. But, you know, Medvedev was interviewed actually, and it was on April Fool's Day, and an interviewer asked him about UFOs and thought that, you know, he would not take it seriously. And then he goes, oh, yeah, no, we have an extensive file about this stuff, President. And he talks about a nuclear connection.

[Robert Salas]

Living with schizophrenia isn't easy, especially when you're not getting relief from some of your symptoms. It can be hard when you're still.

[Jesse Michaels]

Dealing with symptoms like hearing voices or.

[Robert Salas]

Seeing things that aren't there and negative, negative symptoms like feeling unmotivated or avoiding social situations. If this sounds familiar, it might be time to talk to your healthcare provider and explore a different kind of schizophrenia treatment. Discover your [e-mail] no doubt.

[Jesse Michaels]

And it's so fascinating. You're like, and maybe it's plausible deniability for him because it's on April Fools or whatever. But it's. It's wild that he's. You have this former, you know, Russian president talking about this crazy, right?

[Robert Salas]

And there have been other Russian officials come out and say, yeah, we've got people studying the UFO question. So no doubt that these incidents have happened all over the world.

[Jesse Michaels]

All over the world. You have a Russian general, Vasily Alexeyev, coming out in a German magazine, 2000, saying this stuff. And then one of my favorite ones is there's Marconi, you know, this radio engineer, famous radio engineer. So he is rumored to be part of, you know, this majestic 12 equivalent quote unquote, in Italy called the RS33. Actually, I don't know if you remember this. I met you briefly at the San Marino event, which is this global UFO conference held there in Italy. And so you have Roberto Pinoti and other guys, you know, Paolo Gazardi, you know, who do research on this out there. And Marconi's grandson in an interview that's. Everybody can see the video of this. He's speaking to OGO magazine, which is, I guess their People magazine equivalent. So it's sort of a gossip magazine. But he says, yeah, my grandfather had a lot to do with the UFO and ET issue. He's a part of this select committee with. Why am I blanking on the Mussolini? Yeah, there you go. He was part of a select committee with Mussolini to study this stuff. And so it's just fascinating.

[Robert Salas]

This was the Magenta crash.

[Jesse Michaels]

Magenta, Italy, in 1933.

[Robert Salas]

33. You mentioned Roberto Panotti. He just finished a book about the Magenta crash and shows documentation that, yeah, it really did happen. Marconi, who invented radio, was assigned by Mussolini to head up the group that would investigate this and study the craft, et cetera. And that craft maze, you know, it's reasonable to see where that craft was taken to Germany, to Nazi Germany, where studies were done with that craft. In fact, Werner von Braun, who we know was later taken under, you know, taken back to the US after World War II under Operation Paperclip, Right. And he worked on the Apollo program. He knew a lot of the astronauts, used to have astronauts over to his house on weekends for barbecues. And in fact, Gordon, let's see.

[Jesse Michaels]

Gordon Cooper.

[Robert Salas]

Gordon Cooper wrote a book, and in that book he talks about Von Braun telling him that they actually work on. On UFO craft in Germany, in Nazi Germany.

[Jesse Michaels]

Wow.

[Robert Salas]

And actually had a flying model.

[Jesse Michaels]

That is fascinating. I didn't know that Gordon Cooper Wrote that. That's really amazing.

[Robert Salas]

Absolutely.

[Jesse Michaels]

And wow. I gotta check that out. That's wild.

[Robert Salas]

Yeah. You get a hold of his book? I can. I forgot the name of the book, but he did write it in there. So chances are. Yeah. The back engineering of UFOs goes way back.

[Jesse Michaels]

That is fascinating. Gordon Cooper is no scrub. You know, he spent more time in, in orbit than anybody before him as an astronaut as part of the Mercury missions.

[Robert Salas]

Right.

[Jesse Michaels]

These were before the Apollo missions. That's amazing. I didn't know that. I got to research. That's. That's fascinating.

[Robert Salas]

Look into it.

[Jesse Michaels]

I will. Yeah. Because Wernher von Braun pops up in these stories. You know, he, Edgar Mitchell says that he, you know, comes to him and says, you know, he has knowledge of this stuff. And apparently he was involved in Edgar Mitchell actually doing these sort of remote viewing parapsychology experiments, you know, in space and stuff. So there's tangential there all these anecdotes. But that's maybe the most interesting anecdote of them all that he said he was directly involved in reverse engineering craft.

[Robert Salas]

Right.

[Jesse Michaels]

Fascinating.

[Robert Salas]

In fact, other of the Paperclip scientists from Nazi Germany confirmed this again during these weekend meetings with some of the astronauts.

[Jesse Michaels]

Well, you know, Wernher von Braun's mentor is a guy named Herman Oberth. And Herman Oberth is on video speculating about UFOs. He says, you know, the existence of UFOs should make anybody question reality. And then he's, he talks about, you know, time manipulation involved in UFO travel. And he was openly very interested in this stuff. So. And then he actually, as part of Paperclip comes to the US to work as part of Conver Bell as well. So yeah, it's fascinating. How do you evaluate because you obviously are very high conviction on your own experience. You have all these, your kind of, you know, brothers in arms with the nuclear experiences where I'm sure you have to slap a pretty high probability on those being real, given your own experience. You have a bunch of new whistleblowers now coming out in other contexts saying they've worked on programs or seen things. How do you evaluate those?

[Robert Salas]

Well, like I said, from personal contact with a friend of mine, I'm convinced that we have back engineered recovered craft and even flown some models of that. So I have no doubt about that. The genetics studies or the studies that have been done on tissue, these beings have been recovered. I think that has been done. There's been reports of that. Good reports by individuals and so yeah, and all that's being Hidden from the public.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah. Do you think. Do you have any hope of any of this stuff coming out at any point? Or do you think it's just so locked down and tightly controlled that we never get to see what a craft looks like? We don't understand its flight principles at most. Certain things leak in sort of these limited, you know, managed ways, you know. What do you think?

[Robert Salas]

Well, let's just say I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful. But we still have this committed organization that I call the UFO Cabal, Secrecy Cabal, which is determined to maintain the secrecy for a multitude of reasons, you know, greed and power. And, you know, these secrets are very valuable. It can be used as, you know, bartering chips. But it's a worldwide organization, well organized, well funded, and it's going to be tough to break through.

[Jesse Michaels]

Do you have any final things to say about. To the Wall Street Journal, to Joel Shechtman, Deshaun Kirkpatrick?

[Robert Salas]

I mean, yeah, I'd like to know what evidence arrow so that they were able to tell Joel Shechtman that this was some sort of EMP test. And if they have no evidence, in other words, then they're obviously intended to discredit me in some way for whatever reason. And it shows the modus operandi of the secrecy cabal and in that they want to discredit witnesses like myself. And by the way, I'm not the only one only witness to these incidents involving UFOs, nuclear weapons. There are many, many out there, including Dave Shindell. I mentioned Walter Fiegel, et cetera. I could name others. Some don't want to be named.

[Jesse Michaels]

Yeah, no, I mean, it seems very, very common. I was diligencing because I invest in companies. That was my day job. I'm sort of not doing that too much anymore. But a month or two ago, I was helping out a friend and he wanted help on an investment. And it was actually this way to create an artificial ozone layer. I thought it was a little harebrained. Honestly, I didn't think it was the best deal to do. But it was this Israeli entrepreneur and he came from the Israeli nuclear program. And so I was like, at the end of speaking to him, of course, about the company, I was like, look, do you think that there's any UFO connection when it comes to this stuff? High in meshed. You're, you know, the head of your space force equivalent has said all these kind of really interesting things about UFOs, but also like, you know, this kind of secret space program and, you know, Galactic Federation or Whatever. And he got very kind of uncomfortable. And he was like, we should talk in person. Or so you know, we should. We should talk. You know, he's like. And he just kept deflecting. And I don't know, I think you get a lot of that when it comes to the nuclear thing. Clearly is if you were to pick a starting point for empirical, grounded inquiry into all this stuff. There's just so much bullshit out there. But the nuclear thing seems like this really clear.

[Robert Salas]

After I read the article, the hit piece disinformation, I wrote a rebuttal. I listed 14 reasons why it couldn't have been EMP testing that shut down my missiles. And it was about 1100 or 1200 words. I sent that to the Wall Street Journal. They wrote back and said, we can't accept this because it's too long. We have a limit of between 250 and 270 words. Or any kind of op ed or opinion piece or. They didn't use the word rebuttal, but anyway, they rejected it and they said if you can condense it to 270 words, then we'll consider it.

[Jesse Michaels]

What is that, like a half a page or something? That's not a lot of words.

[Robert Salas]

About a half a page.

[Jesse Michaels]

That's wild. That doesn't make sense to me. Also, it's like you have this, what his thing was like 11 pages or something, the original piece, and then you rated T for teen.

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You're.

[Jesse Michaels]

And then you're only allowing, you know, an Air Force veteran, you're in your 80s now. Is that right or.

[Robert Salas]

That's right.

[Jesse Michaels]

That's amazing.

[Robert Salas]

And they even mention in the article, by the way, that I'm an octogenarian. I don't know what that has to do with anything, but.

[Jesse Michaels]

Well, what a. What a sucker punch though, to somebody who served, served their country to say that, you know, this is cover story about an emp. Not include any of the details around people topside actually seeing UFOs. All of the other cases, the Oscar, you know, the, you know, the Echo flight case eight days before and all the cases since at Malmstrom just ignore all of that and then allow you to publish something that is literally 5% the length of their original piece. That's absurd.

[Robert Salas]

I agree, but I made the effort and sent them a 270 word rebuttal. And just yesterday, no, just this morning. I'm sorry. They said they were going to consider it, but they probably have to edit it.

[Jesse Michaels]

That's crazy.

[Robert Salas]

I wrote back and said why should you edit my rebuttal on your article? Which was full of errors.

[Jesse Michaels]

No, they clearly have some vested interest in destroying this topic. I don't know what it is, but you hear about. I had a story too that last November or something in the fall I spoke to them about getting an op ed published between Carl Mel and a former cabinet member. So somebody who's like a presidential cabinet member and not a low ranking cabinet member, like one of the more important positions in the cabinet. And that guy is saying he's expressing frustration about lack of civilian oversight around UFO programs and lack of his own access to these programs. And they rejected it out of hand with no reasons as to why they would reject it. And then they go on to write this hit job discrediting you and stuff, but they didn't mention that a cabinet member had submitted an op ed to them last fall. I think that's all you need to know to say that they're acting in bad faith. I mean, you could maybe make some argument around bad bureaucracy. The left hand, the op ed sections not talking to the other. It's just, it's, it's nuts though.

[Robert Salas]

Yeah, but I think this is an opportunity for Congress to get involved. Because they created Arrow, right? Arrow's not performing because one of their jobs was to investigate reports like, like mine and follow through, get some answers. And in my case, I gave them a two and a half hour talk. I gave them documents to support what I was saying. They complimented me in writing and verbally on the job that I did. And then at the end of it I asked, are you going to check with the Air Force and see if I'm, you know, what I've said is, you know, they can verify it.

[Jesse Michaels]

And they said no, why wouldn't they do that?

[Robert Salas]

Exactly. I said, you know, no, because he said, because we haven't had cooperation from the Air Force on other witnesses.

[Jesse Michaels]

Well, yeah, I mean, look, I think again, all you need to know is, you know, the, the crazy story of them not, you know, not involving the cabinet member submission, but also the fact that Colonel Robert Hippler is saying that this was due to a, you know, an EMP fallout from a nuclear detonation, which is obviously. And then, then they come up with some new, you know, EMP simulation thing.

[Robert Salas]

Right.

[Jesse Michaels]

But they name an exact model that hadn't been, you know, ready until the early 70s. So it's just, it's, it, it's, even if you're trying to discredit something, it's, it's a, it's a lazy job. It's just not, it's not very good.

[Robert Salas]

Right.

[Jesse Michaels]

So, yeah, I don't know, it feels like to me, Kirkpatrick, who has always been kind of, it feels like a fly trap or something, like he's just trying to get the info and then, and then squash these stories, is spoon feeding this information to Joel Shechtman, who probably knows nothing about UFOs, probably a national security reporter. And he's just taking at face value, you know, you have this, this guy who seems like to be, you know, a normal credentialed physicist telling him that all this stuff is a hoax, which if you don't have the data set that you have or I have around UFOs and nukes, you're just going to believe and then you're just going to publish the thing. Not going to fact check.

[Robert Salas]

Well, again, like I said, at some point Congress has to do the job of getting to the bottom of this issue. This uap, what is it? What have we been doing about it? What studies have we done? What have we learned? And they can start with bringing the Air Force in and asking him questions about incidents like mine and others.

[Jesse Michaels]

That would be great. Well, Bob Salas, really appreciate your time. Thank you for having us. And yeah, this is a fantastic discussion and I hope that it opens people's minds and also allows them to look a little deeper when it comes to kind of just taking at face value some of these mainstream media headlines and coverage of this very important topic.

[Robert Salas]

Thank you, Jesse. I really appreciate your taking interest in my case and, well, the whole subject.

[Jesse Michaels]

Absolutely. All right.

[Unknown Host]

All right.

[Jesse Michaels]

That's our show.

[Unknown Host]

For more information about the ubiquitous link between UFOs and nuclear weapons, please watch my comprehensive documentary with the great journalist Robert Hastings. And if you want to watch my comprehensive takedown of the Wall Street Journal, I will link that video too. Finally, speaking of hearing out patriotic whistleblowers and veterans, please support my friend and past American alchemist, Randy Anderson, who came on my show earlier this year to expose a possible off world technology division.

[Jesse Michaels]

At Naval Surface Warfare Crane in Indiana.

[Unknown Host]

He described seeing a levitating orb in a gauntlet emitting alien looking hieroglyphics. My friend UAP Gurb also did an amazing deep dive on Randy that you.

[Jesse Michaels]

Can check out on his channel.

[Unknown Host]

Randy is setting up a very cool program called Alpha Rising. It's a group specifically for veterans, first responders, and anyone who wants to get their mind right and regain purpose in life. I'm linking his GoFundMe for that project in the description of this video. Until next time, I'm Jesse Michaels and.

[Jesse Michaels]

This is American Alchemy.

[Unknown Guest]

SA.