Why NASA Studies This Man (He Attracts UFOs!)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: American Alchemy with Jesse Michels

Episode Title

Why The CIA Studies This UFO Experiencer

Date

January 6, 2026

Host

Jesse Michels

Guest

Chris Bledsoe – Often described as a “super experiencer,” Chris is the author of UFO of God and the subject of ongoing interest by NASA, CIA, high-level scientists, and elements of the intelligence community due to his recurring contact experiences with UFO phenomena, spiritual beings, and anomalous healings.

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Main Purpose & Theme

The episode explores the extraordinary life and experiences of Chris Bledsoe—a man whose UFO encounters, shared with dozens if not thousands of witnesses, triggered deep interest from NASA, the CIA, and private aerospace contractors. Jesse seeks not just a retelling of Bledsoe’s well-known narrative but dives into the idea of metaphysical contact, hidden technologies, government interest in non-human intelligence, consciousness, prophecy, synchronicity, and the deeper philosophical lessons implied by these events.

Central Questions:

• Why do elements of NASA and the CIA study Chris Bledsoe?
• What do his experiences say about the nature of reality, consciousness, and humanity’s future?
• Is there a connection between historical anti-gravity research, secret societies, and contemporary UFO phenomena?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chris Bledsoe’s Origin Story and Experience

Timestamps: [00:04], [00:47], [01:05], [69:59]

• Life Crisis & Beginning of Contact: In 2007, Chris was at rock bottom after financial ruin and severe Crohn’s disease.
• First Sighting: While fishing in Fayetteville, NC, Chris encountered bright, intelligently moving orbs. This event triggered a series of ongoing encounters, miraculous healings, and profound spiritual revelations.
• "And then my Crohn's was gone. I had no more sickness." (Chris Bledsoe, [01:05])
• The orbs, and later, a “luminous feminine presence,” communicated messages about humanity’s moral decay, cycles of collapse and renewal, and forthcoming changes.
• Community Backlash: In deeply religious Fayetteville, his claims ostracized him. He faced skepticism, ridicule, and even child protective services.

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2. High-Level Government & Scientific Interest

Timestamps: [02:04], [05:06], [08:31], [10:01], [17:32], [103:13]

• NASA/CIA Involvement: Mission controller Timothy Taylor (NASA/CIA) and other government agents showed up at Chris’ door, interested in his encounters and the physical artifacts involved.
• Metal Testing Ritual: Taylor tested Bledsoe and his family with mysterious metallic pieces, observing unique energetic responses, suggesting a physical or consciousness-based connection.
  • "He put a piece of metal in my hand... when he put that in this hand, it... created this current... He said, 'I've only ever seen two others and there were nothing like yours.'" (Chris, [06:59])
• Interest in Prophecies/Symbols: Officials noted Chris received symbols and dates from “the Lady” that correlated with known classified information.

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3. Townsend Brown, Zanesville, Anti-Gravity, and the Nassau Group

Timestamps: [10:17], [16:41], [19:11], [20:10], [21:14], [119:22]

• Zanesville Metal: Chris and Tim Taylor journeyed to Zanesville, Ohio—the birthplace of anti-gravity pioneer Thomas Townsend Brown—to recover a glowing piece of mysterious metal that appeared after a UFO event.
  • "We walk into a machine shop, he and I, and had a piece sawed off the metal, which he took with them..." (Chris, [10:42])
• Townsend Brown Connection: Brown was linked to mid-century anti-gravity breakthroughs and secret CIA-backed experiments.
• Nassau Group/Time Travel: Tim Taylor claimed association with a secret “Nassau Group”—implying clandestine time-travel research. Townsend Brown was described as the group's “president.”
  • "He told your son, Ryan, that he was part of a secret time travel group in Nassau in the Bahamas, and that Thomas Townsend Brown was the president." (Jesse, [19:11])
• “It’s called the Nassau Group.” (Chris, [20:10])

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4. The Phenomenon, Consciousness, and Metaphysics

Timestamps: [29:23], [31:59], [33:09], [44:39], [46:50], [48:39], [61:46], [66:21]

• PSI-Op, Synchronicity & Science: Chris was secretly involved in biomedical “download” projects—his impressions from contact experiences contributed to real biotechnology inventions.
  • "It's almost like you were part of like a secret science program..." (Jesse, [30:44])
  • "They were creating what's called a viograph... They wrapped it with this biograph, injected stem cells into it, and in, like, 60 days, her bone had regrown." (Chris, [31:13])
• DNA Resonance & Scalar Waves: The sun as a scalar wave generator encoding life; metal artifacts seeking energy, bonding to DNA—hints at a consciousness-technology interface.
  • "This metal is much... acts much like an animal and that it is always seeking for energy and seeking to connect." (Chris, [41:46])
• Creative/Artistic Types & Contact: Artists frequently report experiences; the phenomenon guides invention, creativity, music.
  • "Of all the people that call me... the majority... will be artists..." (Chris, [39:13])

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5. Prophecy, Disclosure, and the Apocalypse

Timestamps: [89:49], [94:51], [95:03], [154:52]

• 2026 Prophecy: Chris shares that “the Lady” revealed a coming major shift when the star Regulus appears red in the gaze of the Sphinx—ushering in new truth and exposing darkness.
  • "She said... when the star of Regulus... appears red on the horizon at the dawn before the sun comes up... that will be a sign that ushers in a new knowledge for humanity." (Chris, [89:49])
• Nature of Disclosure: Chris insists true disclosure is individual, not institutional—a “post-disclosure” era, driven by direct experience, not government proclamation.
  • "Disclosure is a one person at the time awakening... Awakening or disclosure is for those." (Chris, [155:48])

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6. The Orbs, Angels, and Healing

Timestamps: [61:46], [64:52], [66:21], [98:35]

• Nature & Effects: Chris routinely witnesses and films orbs, often associated with healing (spontaneous remission in others), contact, and tangible physical phenomena.
  • "I have more data about this and more than most people can imagine." (Chris, [65:32])
• Angelic Interpretation: He views these as angelic or messengers—fragments of consciousness (“the Lady”), not necessarily extraterrestrial.
  • “If there's... an angel, it's a messenger. I don’t know what it is. I know that it is to me. And it could be just a fractal of consciousness itself, which. That word means God.” (Chris, [66:21])

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7. NASA, NRO, Space Programs, and Hidden Technologies

Timestamps: [107:00], [110:48], [126:33]

• Technical Operations: NASA used complex, multi-stage systems (ground, aircraft, satellites) to monitor rocket launches and closely documented repeated “surprise visits” by the phenomenon.
  • “Tim walks out of his control into a private room where all the screens are, so his eyes are on all that.” (Chris, [110:12])
• Hidden Propulsion: Chris suggests NASA (and associated black groups) have had alternative, “off-planet” propulsion modalities for years—likely derived from contact artifacts.
  • "Do you think that NASA has other propulsion modalities?" "I think they've had it a long time." (Jesse & Chris, [126:33])
• Metal Analysis: Physical samples recovered reportedly display impossible materials science: e.g., 51 combined elements, including human DNA and plutonium, engineered together in zero gravity, and displaying apparent living/energetic qualities under microscopy ([194:33]).

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8. Memory, Psychological Operations, & Narrative Control

Timestamps: [191:55], [202:34]

• Erasure/Control: Discussion of real and possible technologies to erase memories (“neuralyzer”)—both government and “phenomena” capabilities.
• Skepticism and Suffering: Chris has endured ostracism, threats, and attempted manipulation (by both community and government actors); insists on open-minded humility, non-dogmatism, and kindness as the right spiritual orientation.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Chris’s Healing:
  “And then my Crohn’s was gone. I had no more sickness.” ([01:05])
• On Testing Metal:
  “He said, ‘Why you this close?’...‘Well, I would have known you were lying about being taken if you hadn’t had a reaction to this.’” ([06:59])
• Tim Taylor & Nassau Group:
  “He told your son, Ryan Bledsoe, that he was part of a secret time travel group in Nassau in the Bahamas, and that Thomas Townsend Brown was the president.” (Jesse, [19:11])
• Nature of the Phenomenon:
  “All kinds of things come. It’s like being Sherlock Holmes. I’m like, oh, boy, what’s next? That’s kind of the way I model my life—is letting it guide my path rather than me try to drive the bus.” (Chris, [33:09])
• On Orbs Being Angelic:
  "In fact, you talked about the Book of Acts—when Saul was on the road to Damascus. What was it that appeared and blinded him? ... It was an orb. Flashed him." (Chris, [60:22])
• On Disclosure:
  “Disclosure is a one person at the time awakening... Awakening or disclosure is for those. There’s a lot of people that already knows.” (Chris, [155:48])
• NASA’s Knowledge:
  “They know a lot more than we know, than we think they do.” (Chris, [107:27])

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Highlighted Segments & Timestamps

• Chris’s Origin / First Contact & Healing | [00:04] – [01:55]
• Metal Testing / NASA Visits | [05:06] – [08:31]
• Zanesville, Townsend Brown, Anti-gravity, Nassau Group | [10:01] – [22:25]
• Tim Taylor’s Role in NASA, NRO, Time Travel | [19:11], [110:12], [119:22]
• Biomedical Device “Downloads”, Biograph, Patent | [31:12] – [33:09]
• Consciousness, DNA, Scalar Waves | [41:46] – [47:02]
• 2026 Prophecy & Apocalypse | [89:49] – [95:11]
• Healed Cancer Patient, Orbs as Angels | [64:04]
• Contact with Vatican, Photo in Vatican Archives | [81:36], [81:54]
• On Skepticism and Experience | [68:29] – [69:45]
• Neuralyzer/Mind Erasure Claims | [189:47] – [191:55]
• Suppression, Narrative Control, Censorship | [202:34]

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Tone & Language

Consistently open, exploratory, inquisitive, and at times awe-struck. Jesse is respectful of Chris’s perspective but pushes for details, cross-connections, and philosophical depth. Chris often emphasizes humility and the incompleteness of knowledge, regularly returning to his core spiritual orientation.

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Summary for New Listeners

If you haven’t heard the show:

• This episode is a sweeping journey through the intersection of UFO contact, metaphysical revelation, and the highest levels of government secrecy and scientific curiosity.
• Chris Bledsoe’s regular, demonstrable encounters with non-human intelligence—and their spiritual/healing qualities—have led to intense study by NASA, CIA, research scientists, and theologians.
• The episode eschews simplistic “nuts and bolts” explanations in favor of an exploration into consciousness, information, prophecy, hidden technology, and the ultimate questions of human destiny and the future “apocalypse” (unveiling).
• Jesse and Chris unpack the connections between experiencers, high-level scientists, classified anti-gravity research, and the possible role of artistic creativity and humility in accessing these phenomena.

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Final Thoughts

Chris Bledsoe’s story is not just another UFO case—it’s an odyssey that links scientific mystery, spiritual transformation, synchronicity, prophecy, and the shadowy reaches of government interest. The interview raises profound questions:

• Is humanity on the threshold of a new spiritual and scientific understanding?
• Does true “disclosure” come from institutions, or from direct, personal awakening?
• Are we being gently guided—by synchronicities, inspiration, and visitation—toward a new meta-paradigm?

As Chris says: “My job is to share a truth that everyone’s been told is not real.” ([154:18])

Transcript

[Jesse]

Do you think other people think that you are the Messiah?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Came out of a conference, speaking. And when I walked out the door, this mad lady comes running up to me and tries to kidnap me. What? Yeah. My job is to share a truth that everyone's been told is not real. It was 19 years ago on January 8th of 2007. I was down and out and lost everything, lost my home. And I'm having to apply for free lunch for my kids sick with Crohn's disease. And if anybody has Crohn's, knows how bad that is, you know you're in a restroom 10 times a day. I was at 20 times a day at that point in my life.

[Narrator]

In January of 2007, while fishing with friends in North Carolina, Chris Bledsoe witnessed a series of bright, intelligently moving orbs in the sky. That moment doesn't end. It starts a series of unexpected and seemingly miraculous events.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And then my Crohn's was gone. I had no more sickness.

[Narrator]

In the days and weeks that follow, the phenomena continue. The lights appear again and again, sometimes at a distance, sometimes directly over his home. He reports numerous encounters that don't resemble crafts lights or UFOs at all, but what he describes as a luminous, feminine presence, deeply unsettling in its archetypal familiarity. Her communication seems to go beyond the cliches and platitudes of normal contact experiences. They touch on humanity's deep moral decay cycles of civilizational collapse, judgment, the apocalypse, and renewal. They revolve around humanity reaching a threshold.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I came back excited to tell it. That's when the next five years of darkness I talk about in my book started.

[Narrator]

His UFO experiences only serve to make him more of a pariah in his local community of Fayetteville, North Carolina, where fundamentalist Christianity is the only way and anything paranormal is considered demonic. NASA and the CIA show up at Bledsoe's door. And not just anybody at NASA and the CIA. I'm talking about a high level NASA mission controller who has worked on launches at Cape Canaveral since the Challenger missions in the 80s.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And he said, I was at the dinner table with the President and handed me that.

[Jesse]

He said that?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. Whoa. And this. Yeah.

[Narrator]

Scientists, military and other intelligence officials follow suit. They grill Bledsoe on his experiences. Some imply that certain dates and symbols he's given by the lady align with things they're already monitoring and have seen from other authoritative sources.

[Jesse]

So they have like a scientific model of how these angels work at NASA.

[Chris Bledsoe]

They know a lot more than we know, than we think they do.

[Narrator]

I personally don't know what Chris Bledsoe experienced and continues to experience to this day. But I know that his story doesn't sit at the edge of history forever. It's either going to collapse under scrutiny or. Or force us to redraw the map. In this special episode of American Alchemy, we have a markedly different conversation than the one that Chris Bledsoe is used to having.

[Jesse]

He took you to Zanesville, Ohio where you recovered a little piece of metal.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Do you know who's from Zanesville, Ohio?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I do. T. Townsend Brown.

[Jesse]

Right. What?

[Narrator]

Instead of just retelling his story, we make some pretty mind blowing connections from it. Ones involving secret societies with access to time travel, anti gravity experiments done in mid century America. Space metal with curious properties that interact with consciousness in weird ways. What exists on the dark side of the moon and what the world will look like in the next decade. So without further ado, sit back, relax and prepare to ascend into the astral plane with this week's American Alchemist, Christopher Bledsoe.

[Jesse]

This has been a long time coming. I'm here with Chris Bledsoe, who many call kind of a super experiencer because, you know, I was just rereading your book, UFO of God, and your life is really just remarkable. You've had all these incredible deep experiences and I want to talk about those experiences. But I also want to talk, because your story is well known at this point, I also want to talk about some of the deeper philosophies that you've kind of come into based on your experiences and maybe have kind of a metaphysical conversation. But I want to start with this very interesting discussion that we just kind of sparked up as you were walking in, which is you have this golden pin on your jacket. What is that pin?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, that pen was given me by someone everybody has read about right down at Cape Canaveral without saying names. And it signifies being off planet. So from what I'm told, the people that get these have been in space before.

[Jesse]

So astronauts pretty much.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right, right.

[Jesse]

And why do you think this person gave that pin to you?

[Chris Bledsoe]

At the time, I had no clue other than what they were telling me. It involved taking me into the astronaut crew quarters and going through a whole thing because I was. In other words, when this thing first happened, this person from NASA came to my house with a backpack and whole lot of credentials that had everything from Area 51 to CIA and all that combined. NASA and he, he tested the whole family with metal. He put a piece of metal in my hand. I was the last one to be tested. So all my four of my kids and my wife, they all went into this one room. So she got Ryan. He got Ryan's the first one, and kind of made it secret. He took Ryan into a room, tested him and said, now you go get the next person, but don't tell them. So he went out and got each person in the family, tested them with this metal. They brought me in last and I had no idea what I was doing. I sat down on the edge of the bed. It was in Ryan's room. And he put this piece of metal right here and said, what do you think of that? I said, well, it looks like a piece of aluminum, like a poster. Stamp size. That size? Thin.

[Jesse]

Was it light?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Very light, yeah, it was kind of a dull gray. It wasn't like shiny. It was aluminum of some sort. Then he reaches in his backpack and pulls out another piece of metal that was different. And it was like aluminum foil. Looked like foil. And it wasn't creased. You couldn't crease it, but it would wrinkle, but it would fall back out. But it wouldn't crease. You couldn't crease it. You could. It would kind of roll up and then straighten out. But when he put that in this hand, it somehow another created this current that went through where it was communicating. This part of the metal was communicating with that part of the metal. And when that happened, it caused me to my eyes to roll back. And he reached up and snatched it out of my hand real quick and said, why you? This is in the book, by the way. And I had no idea what happened. He said, why you this close? I said, excuse me, what do you mean, why me? And he said, well, I would have known you were lying about being taken if you hadn't had a reaction to this. And he said, I've only ever seen two others and there were nothing like yours. What he told me. So that started a the next two, three years studying with them. And I'm being kind to my friend without saying his name. But you know who I'm talking.

[Jesse]

I know you're talking about. Can I say who it is? Because it's. I think it's Tim Taylor, who's a NASA mission controller who, yeah, his name is now sort of, sort of out there. And yeah, we should definitely be respectful to him as somebody who doesn't maybe want to do public interviews himself. But I think he's put himself out there enough to.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Narrator]

So who is this Timothy Taylor figure Showing up in Bledsoe's life. He's a mysterious rocket scientist who's done mission control for NASA since the 80s. That part is not really disputed and it's well documented in his autobiography, Launch Fever. At one point, Tim Taylor even had a small YouTube account with videos showing his deep levels of access to NASA facilities. He's also taken people like Bledsoe through Kennedy Space Center. Religious studies professor Diana Pasulka, along with others, have said that he's worked directly with Elon Musk. But where it gets interesting is that he's also popping up in the lives of numerous UFO experiencers claiming that he's a time traveler and works for an angel. Basically, he exists at the intersection between rigorous real world aerospace work and totally insane UFO lore. And that's why he's still American Alchemy's most requested guest. Some of the things that Tim Taylor told Chris would wholesale overhaul our understanding of reality, if at all true.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Really smart guy, like genius level and really? Yeah, I enjoyed his company. We did a lot of stuff together. We traveled together. We were able to recover some metal together. Wow. Yeah.

[Jesse]

I didn't know that.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Where was that?

[Chris Bledsoe]

That was in Ohio.

[Jesse]

In Ohio?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Where in Ohio?

[Chris Bledsoe]

And a little town called Zanes. Well, Zanesville. Zanesville? Yeah.

[Jesse]

Zanesville, Ohio?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Do you know who's from Zanesville, Ohio?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I do. Tea Towns in brown. Right.

[Jesse]

What? He took you to Zanesville, Ohio, where you recovered a little piece of metal?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, a pretty good piece, about that big.

[Jesse]

You're sure you went to Zanesville?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, in fact, I went in a machine shop, he and I, and had a piece sawed off the metal, which he took with them, and we gave the other piece back to the person that had it. And I knew the person and he wouldn't give it to anyone in the world. But he called me and he drives up in his yard and there's this red piece of glowing. He sees this thing over his house and it goes away when he drives up, but there's a piece of red glowing metal in the yard. He lets it cool, picks it up and puts it in a shoebox. And there it stays for 15 years.

[Jesse]

No way.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And when he found out about me and read the store, he calls me and says, I got something I want you to see. And so I called Taylor and he and I flew up there.

[Jesse]

This is. This is either engineered to make me excited or this is the most remarkable story ever.

[Narrator]

I almost lost it during this part of the interview. Zanesville, Ohio, is where Thomas Townsend Brown was born. To me, Townsend Brown is the most interesting historical figure in the 20th century that no one knows about. I've independently uncovered an absurd amount of information that leads me to believe that Townsend Brown essentially discovered anti gravity in the 1950s. He was funded by the same physics patrons at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill that sent science down the wrong path with Quantum gravity in 1957. He was also backed by the highest levels of CIA and aerospace. There are even videos of Townsend Brown at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hillary celebrating because his experiments presumably worked. Here he is with a bottle of champagne and we know due to real declassified documents written by the head of Australia's nuclear program, Harry Turner and often cited by UFO whistleblower David Grusch, that University of North Carolina Chapel Hill was waist deep in anti gravity research. We also have a deathbed confession of French Aerospace representative Jacques Coyote Corneone saying that Townsend Brown's experiments worked in Paris in the Montgolfier facility in 1956.

[Chris Bledsoe]

The tests were very, very, very tricky. It was sensitive to so many things in vacuum. Finally it worked. So that was a positive result.

[Narrator]

And that's just the tip of the spear. We also have Carl Nell, who helped set up Army Futures Command, which led all tech modernization efforts for the army and implying that Townsend Brown made breakthroughs in the world of gravity.

[Jesse]

Jesse's done a number of podcasts looking into Townsend Brown and some other very interesting like heretical technologies. So I'd invite people, an unsolicited plug to check out some of Jesse's podcasts.

[Narrator]

Not to mention NASA's top scientist in electrostatics, Charles Bueller, literally leaving NASA to start a propellantless gravity based propulsion system that he says is a derivative of Townsend Brown's work. The term asymmetric electrical pressure is similar to Thomas Townsend Browne's research into asymmetrical capacitors.

[Jesse]

Those older papers and that older subject matter is probably valid for most of the point.

[Narrator]

I could go on, but I'll spare you. The fact that Chris Bledsoe was taken to Zanesville, Ohio, an otherwise completely unremarkable little Ohio town, seems like a very unlikely coincidence. And the fact that the goal there was to retrieve an exotic piece of metal seems even more unlikely. Especially given that Tim Taylor was escorting Bledsoe there. As you're about to hear in this conversation, there are tons of other bizarre connections between NASA mission controller Tim Taylor and mid century anti gravity inventor Townsend Brown. This episode is sponsored by Superpower. On this show we spend all of our time trying to understand reality, but most of us are simply guessing when it comes to our own health. With conventional healthcare, you're firing totally blindly. You go to the doctor, you get a few basic labs, and you're told everything looks normal. But that thing that doesn't feel great, the chronic headaches, the stomach pain, the back pain, you don't ever really get insight on any of it. You don't get the proper data you need. You get no actionable insights and no real plan. That's why Superpower caught my attention. Superpower gives you a deep look at what's actually happening inside your body. It's a single blood draw, either at home or a nearby lab. And they measure over 100 biomarkers, way more than a standard physical. You get real data on things like hormones, metabolism, heart health, vitamin and mineral levels, even environmental toxins. Toxins that can accumulate and cause very bad things to happen in your body. What I like is that Superpower doesn't stop at the numbers. They turn those results into a clear, personalized action plan. What to focus on with nutrition, what supplements actually make sense for you, lifestyle adjustments. You can even get your true biological age and can track how that changes over time. Instead of guessing, when it comes to your health, you finally have a map. Your full health blueprint activated with Superpower. Not only did Superpower reduce their price to just $199, but for a limited time, our listeners get an additional $20 off with code ALCHEMY. Again, that's $20 off with code ALCHYCHEMY. Head to superpower.com and use code ALCHEMY at checkout for $20 off your membership. After you sign up, they'll ask you how you heard about them. Please make sure to mention this podcast to support the show.

[Jesse]

And so if there's a connection between this NASA mission controller who's obsessed with UFOs and this mid century anti gravity inventor, and then you're literally going to Zanesville, Ohio to collect UFO material, which is where it's a. That's a random place. And that's where Townsend Brown was born in 1905. And there's their newspaper, you know, clippings of him creating, you know, wireless telegram, basically at the age of 12 or so. That's crazy.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, true story.

[Jesse]

That's so crazy.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And I can show you the metal. I'll give you a picture of it.

[Jesse]

Can't. Please.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Can I feel the metal?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, I don't own it.

[Jesse]

You don't own it? Okay. Yeah, Tim has it. I Would. I would love to see the picture. Yeah. And learn anything else about the Zanesville trip? That's just fascinating.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Tim got it originally and then Dr. Put off, got another piece of it.

[Jesse]

Put off, got another piece.

[Chris Bledsoe]

So I took Tom delong and Lou Elizondo to Zanesville or to, to Pennsylvania or Ohio, I mean.

[Jesse]

You took him to Ohio?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I took them to the same guy's house and, and got them a piece of it as well.

[Jesse]

Were Tom delong and Lou aware of Townsend Brown?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I didn't discuss it with him.

[Jesse]

You didn't discuss that with. No. So.

[Chris Bledsoe]

But that's where some of their metal came from. Plus some that I had. I had three pieces of it.

[Jesse]

Do you think Put off knows about Townsend Brown?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, he does. Yeah, I'm sure.

[Jesse]

Yeah, he told me he, he, he met him.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

But that he never, you know, he didn't know how far he got, you know, sort of thing.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

But how, you know, how. It can be a little cheeky, but interesting.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

For the audience. I mean, I'm sure they know this, but I'm obsessed with this mid century anti gravity inventor Thomas Townsend Brownette, who I am very convinced made real updates in the world of gravity. He was a very nuts and bolts, you know, inventor. And he worked at the highest levels of military government with every kind of aerospace company you could, you could guess. I mean, there's an FBI document on him saying he was the foremost radar expert in the Navy. And, and he was in charge of the Philadelphia Experiment, actually, which has all this lore about it. And who knows whether the, you know, prima facie story of that is true. But he was at, you know, Martin Vega the year that Skunk Works formed.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

He, you know, knew Curtis LeMay, knew Bill Lear, the inventor of the Learjet.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

He was being funded by the guys who were sending physics down the wrong path while he was doing his, I think, more vital kind of anti gravity experiments. But the kind of subplot of his life is that gravity and time are very interrelated in general relativity. And what I found so fascinating is I made this whole documentary on Thomas Townsend Brown. And at the end of the documentary, I make this connection that Tim Taylor told your son, Ryan Bledsoe, that he was part of a secret time travel group in Nassau in the Bahamas, and that Thomas Townsend Brown was the president. And even then, maybe I would have dismissed it out of hand, but I had become this amateur historian of Townsend Brown and he would always go to Nassau in the Bahamas. And then if you read Tim Taylor's biography, Launch Fever. He's in Nassau a lot. So that does kind of place them both in, you know, it's called Nassau at some time.

[Chris Bledsoe]

It's called the Nassau Group.

[Jesse]

The Nassau Group, yeah. So he took you to. Is the. Was the piece of metal, this UFO metal in Zanesville related to Townsend Brown at all or.

[Chris Bledsoe]

There was a lot of conversation about that. And the amount of activity around that place, he said was all part of the land because where this metal was found was near the Indian Serpent Mound. So they know that there's a lot of activity. And he told me stories about Townsend Brown.

[Jesse]

What did he say about Townsend Brown?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, you know, his daughter was doing a book and Tim was helping her with that book.

[Jesse]

Tim was helping her with.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, he helped write that book that. Her book.

[Jesse]

I didn't know that. I do know I found an Amazon review from his daughter about Tim Taylor's book Launch Fever. And this was before anybody knew about, you know, Tim Taylor, because he hadn't even been written about, you know, pseudonymously in American Cosmic by Dana Pasalka. This is in the early 2000 and tens.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

So. So he was helping Linda Brown, right?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Her book. Yeah, sure was.

[Jesse]

That's amazing. And what did he say about Townsend himself?

[Chris Bledsoe]

He told me he'd heard stories of these little things coming and landing in his yard and getting out and giving him information.

[Jesse]

That's real. Well, at least according to his daughter. His daughter did a sort of AMA on, you know, ask me anything on Reddit. She talked about beings coming down and then entering. I think it was like she was in the. They were in the kitchen with her dad and her, and they were these sort of pale skinned, you know, looked alien, like, looked from a. You know, like they were from another planet or it existed in another environment. And they talked all night and then, you know, they wake up the next morning. She thinks it's a dream. And then two nights later they're at dinner and she brings up the dream. And Thomas Townsend Brown goes, that wasn't a dream or something like that, Right?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Exactly.

[Jesse]

Wow. Did he ever insinuate on what the Nassau group, this time travel group in the Bahamas was doing?

[Chris Bledsoe]

He didn't. He did. He just told me at one point that. That he thought I may have to go hide out there a while.

[Jesse]

Really?

[Chris Bledsoe]

That was in NASA when it really first happened, way back, because it was a dangerous place. The whole world was different in 2008. It was. It was the highest secured thing in the world. The UFO was more classified harder than the nuclear bomb.

[Jesse]

But you would have to hang out in NASA.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, they mentioned that I may have to go there for protection.

[Jesse]

Interesting.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

So what's there?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I don't know. I just. That was all he told me.

[Jesse]

You know, he writes in Launch Fever, his biography about flying these cargo jets back and forth between Florida and Nassau.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

And I think the. The guy he was flying with was, like, selling drugs, and he didn't even know about it. Like, it was like he was. He was just kind of being, like, along for the ride or whatever. But then he says some really trippy things around. He goes, time moved differently in Nassau. But he's saying it like it's like island time, you know? So it's like. And then you're like, is that coded? Because he's telling you, you know that in Diana Pasulka about the Adjustment Bureau and, like, you know, timeline hopping.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

And then he's saying, time moves different in this Nassau group, but in Nassau. But then he's also telling your son and you that he's in a secret time travel group with Townsend Brown in Nassau. So I'm like, is he writing in code there?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, those guys are all about. Yeah, they're so super secretive. They can. They'll tell you things and code like that, and it's up to you to get it or not. But.

[Jesse]

Yeah, I want to meet the Nassau group. How do. How do we do that?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I have no idea. I don't know how I would find them or what. I was just. That was something told to me years ago, and Ryan heard it, and it. It never left me. But as far as where and how and who, I don't. I don't know. Yeah, we never got involved.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Because it's so. It's so, like, the world's so interesting because he also. I believe he told you, and I think Diana Pasulka, that, you know, he said, read the Adjustment Team or watch the Adjustment Bureau, which is this. The original was a Philip K. Dick book, and then this movie with Matt Damon, and it's all about adjusting little variables to change timelines. And he viewed his role in reality as doing that.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

And so do you think he actually viewed his role as. As doing that as part of this sort of timeline adjustment team? Tim Taylor.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, well, he's told me. He was the one who told me to read, to watch the movie. He said, that movie was created for a reason. Watch it. It's a lot like that. And then he said, and in that movie, you'll find a character Named the Hammer. And he said, and I work for the hammer and the hammer works for God. I'm like, you got to tell me more than that. That's all he would tell me. He said, I work for the Hammer and the hammer works for God.

[Jesse]

And you. What do you think the Hammer is?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, in the movie he's like an archangel. He's the guy that the lesser beings couldn't. Couldn't stop what was happening because of love. You know, if you watch the movie that's so fascinating. So they send the hammer down to. To take care of it. And of course I won't spoil the movie.

[Jesse]

But yeah, it ends up well. But yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Whoa.

[Jesse]

I mean, do you. Do you think that he's in touch with a celestial being? With an angel?

[Chris Bledsoe]

He insinuated that and I can probably believe that. Yeah. Something.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Whether it's an angel or what, I don't know.

[Jesse]

So what would the. Because he seems to show up in a lot of super experiencers lives. So there are people who've had experiences here and there and then there are people like you who have repeated experiences and a lot of interactions with this other world. And I found it very interesting that he showed up in Charles Hall's life and then he shows up in your life. I think he knew Whitley Strieber as well.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Did you say Timothy Taylor? Yeah, he's a good friend of ours.

[Jesse]

Oh, so you know Timothy Taylor.

[Chris Bledsoe]

He came here because he found out about Charles and that was when his daughter, the one who had the baby, was like, what was she maybe in fifth grade when they came the first time? Yeah, we.

[Jesse]

Why do you think he was. He became interested in your story? My wife can answer all the questions.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Because he realized as far as he was concerned that Charles was. The real article was legitimate. And as I say, it's really concerned me because I've tried to email other people because he brought other people to meet us and visit with us. One of the guys cooked right here in my kitchen. And so I tried to contact those people because I had emails for them and I never got a response about what happened to him.

[Jesse]

So what do you think it is with him? Do you think there's some mandate from the Hammer, from this angel or something to interact with experiencers?

[Chris Bledsoe]

If he's being truthful about that, I would say that's probably correct. There's some kind of mandate guiding him. So he's definitely connected. I mean, big time.

[Jesse]

Do you think he was being truthful or.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, well, you know, sometimes you wonder if it's all smoke and mirrors designed to throw you off course, you know, But I listened to everything. I worked with him for three or four years before Diana met him. I introduced Diana to Tim. We were working on crazy stuff like stem cell research. And I have no idea what that is and what proteins are and anything medical. Right. I'm a carpenter, and yet I'm reading papers at night that they would send me. And my job was to draw whatever came out of me, whatever I saw. And so usually every week I'm sending in some sort of diagram of cells and all kinds of things.

[Jesse]

Whoa.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

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[Jesse]

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[Jesse]

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[Jesse]

Game changer for me, so I hope you love it. So it's almost like you were part of like a secret science program where you were given material to look at. You didn't even have context on the material, but you were getting downloads about it. And do you think any of that made it into his. You know, he had a lot of biomedical patents. He had a company called Vivex Biotechnologies which He sold for $88 million.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That's. I was working with.

[Jesse]

That's your.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That company.

[Jesse]

Wow. Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

They were creating what's called a viograph, which was. It was based on metal. The Metal that they've recovered and infusing it into this. Well, the particular. And I have video of the operation of a young lady. The first operation in the United States was a Spanish lady that had bone cancer in her thigh. And they removed, like, 2 inches of the bone and they wrapped it with this biograph, injected stem cells into it, and in, like, 60 days, her bone had regrown. The pain was gone. She could walk again.

[Jesse]

Whoa.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Yeah. No, I mean, that is a operational, functional, you know, company that does real things in the biomedical world. And what. What makes it fascinating is that maybe the backdrop of that company is recovered UFO material and somebody like you intuitively downloading the functionality.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I don't know how much good I did. Right. But it was to come from a carpenter being ridiculed by the whole community to secretly drawing diagrams for NASA was pro. You know, it was pretty cool thing.

[Jesse]

Well, it, you know, you have all these rumors of, like, Philip J. Corso and, you know, him being involved in, you know, I think Army's, you know, foreign technology desk and transferring, you know, crash materials from Roswell, for example, to Bell Labs so they could, you know, help build, you know, semiconductors, things like that. But what you don't hear of is people download people like yourself, who are intuitively kind of tapped in, downloading aspects of the functionality of some of these technologies. That's really interesting.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, that I'm learning. I'm learning over the last night. It's been 19 years. I've been doing this. Right. A long time. And in that time, I've learned a lot, and I keep learning every day. But there is a great correlation with the phenomenon guiding us and creating things in our path. And if you're smart enough, then you pay attention to that. All kinds of things come. It's like being Sherlock Holmes. I'm like, oh, boy, what's next? That's kind of the way I've modeled my life, is letting it guide my path rather than me try to drive the bus. I let that. I call it the Lady. Right. Or that. The phenomena.

[Jesse]

Yeah, yeah. The. It's like the. The way is not the way. Like, you have to. You have to. Or I think there's a concept called Wu Way, which is effortless effort, and there's sort of sitting back, being receptive, listening to the signs, and then just kind of, you know, following. Following the path and.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

That's a. That's an art. You know, it's. It's easy to get into this mode of being attached and trying to over engineer outcomes.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Exactly. For example, in the music world, I happened to. I wrote about something that happened. I was given a message that there. That the. The divine world encodes messages within the music that we listen to and we just don't know it. Right. So it's being channeled by these musicians. And that led me on to how manifestation works is because when I was given that information, I was given five or six songs. Six. Five. Right away, one at another point. And when I read the lyrics on it, it was like, oh, my God, this is crazy. This is crazy. I couldn't believe it. You hear these songs, but you never read the words. Well, that day in 2012, I said, Lord, I wish I could tell Sammy Hagar from Van Halen or Robert Plant or. Or Jimmy Page or Neil Young. These are the guys. Or. Or Metallica. Right. These are the guys that I just said the simple little prayer, you know, right off the top of my head. Lord, I wish I could tell them, wow, this is what I was thinking. Last year on my birthday, I get a phone call and it's Sammy's wife Kari, and we become friends. And then it turned into Curt Hammett with Metallica. And then. Then I get a. A text from a friend. He said, hey, Chris, I'm in the pub in. In England. And set him aside me as Robert Plant. And he's reading your book. No way.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And he.

[Jesse]

That's crazy.

[Chris Bledsoe]

He sent you a happy birthday. Two days later, I get a call from Fred Durst, Limp Bizkit.

[Jesse]

Oh, yeah. Well, he's super into you.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I love Fred UFO podcast. Yeah, I've been on his podcast.

[Jesse]

Cool.

[Chris Bledsoe]

So anyhow, it just all poured out and it manifested. I didn't do it. I didn't seek these people out. They called me and now that's. Sammy told me that the song Love Walks In. He don't even know where the words came from. Just came out of him. And this song is like. You have to read the lyrics on it. Wow. Yeah.

[Jesse]

Well, I didn't even. I mean, it's crazy how much music is influenced by this stuff. Like, I think Paul McCartney, one of the Beatles, had a dream about a flaming pie, and that was how the Beatles name came about. Somehow I didn't know that it was going to be spelled differently Beatles. And then it. And then it. And then it moved into B, A T, L, E S after this flaming pie came down in the stream or something. And so, yeah, you have a lot of these sort of stories. That's amazing.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Do you Think that, you know, because we, we often think of like, you know, the aerospace world that's interested in a lot of what you're doing is very kind of nuts and bolts focused, not right. They don't care about, you know, downloads or experiences or whatever.

[Narrator]

Do you, do you.

[Jesse]

Do you feel like they really. Do they very. They are really interested in the phenomenon and they, they are learning from it as much as they are just, you know, writing equations on chalkboards.

[Chris Bledsoe]

A million percent. In fact, in the last year I've seen, or two years, I've seen a huge increase in the. The scientists, mainstream scientists that, you know, forever. Like Diana, she was the first PhD that would even talk about this. Right. And back then, if you even said this out loud, people would laugh and walk away. Nobody would talk. Now there's over 200 mainstream scientists right now. That was the word I was told by Dr. Estevez. Anna Brady Estevez.

[Jesse]

Oh, yeah, she's been on the podcast. We're still coming out with something cool.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, yeah, but she.

[Jesse]

American deep tech. She's.

[Chris Bledsoe]

She's told me that there's at least 200 scientists that want to start working on this thing.

[Jesse]

It's fascinating.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, it's fascinating.

[Jesse]

And it almost feels like at times the scientists are being coordinated on a higher level. Yeah. And this gets into like the three body problem or, you know, science fiction novels like that, where, you know, the way that the phenomena speaks to us is through scientific discoveries, innovation, through serendipitous meetings between scientists. And I'm sure it's the same thing with art and other creation big time.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And to the creativity world. Artists of all kinds, in other words. I don't mean to interrupt, but if, If I had to say, of all the people that call me that, the majority of these experiencers, a good majority of them will be artists that paint, that make music, that act. They're different type of people and creative people. And for some reason, they're the ones that have a lot of this experience and have been for years.

[Jesse]

Makes sense that they'd be tapped in. I think it's more interesting in a sense that somebody like, you know, I've spoken to Hal put off about this, and he goes, I always follow the synchronicities, and when they stop, I know I'm on the wrong path, whatever. And it's like, this guy is a very serious scientist. He's popping up not only in areas of quote unquote, UFO science, but in, you know, prosaically very interesting science.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right. So pretty serious guy.

[Jesse]

Yeah. And we were talking outside. It sounds like you're in touch with some Lockheed guys too. Yeah, what's, what's the deal there?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, I have friends everywhere. There's no shortage of people from NASA, from Lockheed, from 3M, from, from all over these scientists. But my, I happen to have a friend that is a materials scientist that works with this material and he kind of stays pretty close to me, following me about and we, we travel together and we study together and doing a lot of things right now.

[Jesse]

Interesting.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Who's that?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I can't tell.

[Jesse]

Does he work at a big aerospace.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Corporation or he, well he, yeah, you'll see him one day at. He lives in Silicon Valley, but you'll see him one day he'll be in a skiff somewhere under an airport or he'll be in, at NASA or he'll be somewhere and amongst all that.

[Jesse]

Yeah, fascinating. Yeah, it's so interesting.

[Chris Bledsoe]

He's educated me a lot on this metal and how it acts and, and how it acts differently in zero gravity than it does on, on ground level.

[Jesse]

How does the metal act differently in zero gravity?

[Chris Bledsoe]

It's, it, it has a way of. Well just, let's just say the, the words I heard this metal is much. Acts much like an animal and that it is always seeking for energy and seeking to connect. And how I got this pin was being off planet and being tested by that metal, knowing that it bonded to me. So that's why this phenomenon's always around, it's trying to reconnect all the time.

[Jesse]

And because you went up on a craft, you're somehow connected with the metal. How do you think you're connected with it?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Into the DNA is all I know. It's a frequency. I think our DNA is transmitted a frequency which, because I've seen the papers on it and in a radar type frequency. So it's pinging and it's receiving, sending and receiving. And so it's always, it's always once it connects with you on that level and I'm being very careful not to say a whole lot here, but I get a phone call if I say too much. Right, but.

[Jesse]

So yeah, but they're clearly trying because they know you have a public presence, they know you're gonna get asked about this stuff so they wanna get it out somewhat would be my guess. You know, there's a, you know, there's a scientist named Konstantin Mile, he's in the Black Forest in Germany and he talks about scalar physics and its relationship with DNA specifically like DNA resonance with these Exotic electromagnetic waves that exist in the scalar field, which, if you think about it, if we are getting any sort of messages via rdna, a transverse Hertzian, a classic electromagnetic wave, doesn't really make sense because it decays at 1 over r squared. So if you're in a Faraday chamber or you're kind of in some remote place or whatever, the decay function on a normal electromagnetic wave would be too stark for you to really receive a lot of information ongoing. But if you have some of these more exotic waves that travel at 1 over R, which a lot of these kind of deeper aerospace scientists believe possibly exist, maybe your body would be able to download and encode a lot more information. And they say they think that the sun is a scalar wave generator. So maybe the sun is constantly spurring evolution. And Tim Taylor talks about in Diana's book American Cosmic, that his protocols are around being in the sunlight looking at the sun.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, that's it. In fact, I read the paper on it 15 years ago, 13 years ago, and the thought is that the sun, the way it shines at an angle on the Earth, it creates the green color spectrum, which is the center of the color spectrum. Right. And in that our. The sun is, is affecting what's called adt, which is the hemoglobin in your blood and the chlorophyll implants. So it, when it hits that, it starts this energy and it starts creating life. And so the sun is telling everything. How to be a pear, how to be a grass, how to be a tree, how to be me or you. So all the information of life is coming from that green light, from what they're saying. It's just constantly sending all information, all encoding to every living thing. Birds. That's where it comes from.

[Jesse]

Yeah, it's really amazing. I mean, there's. There's this idea of the anthropic principle, which is why is Earth this perfect kind of homeostatic just place that fosters life? And there are a couple of different explanations for it. One is, we've tried a million different iterations. This is the Goldilocks zone. We just got really lucky or whatever to live in the one where it's perfect. And then there's another one which is this has been sort of created or simulated for life. And if you think about the Earth's magnetosphere, the way it blocks cosmic radiation, but allows just enough cosmic radiation to allow for the perfect amount of natural selection, to allow for, you know, real, real evolution, but then the magnetosphere of the Earth itself Like literally the Schumann resonance fosters human and animal morphology in this sort of perfect way. If you put a frog embryo in a Faraday chamber, where that's blocked, it doesn't grow normally. So it's this, like these perfect sort of circumstances.

[Chris Bledsoe]

So one thing we figured out this past year, I was on John Alexander called me two or three times. Chris, Nobody got it. Yeah. I was on this Beyond Skinwalker show with Brandon Fugal. Right. So we were at the Monroe Institute and they took me in the basement of the lab and put me in a Faraday cage. And it's silent. It's. Walls like this stick with. You know, I'm in a. I'm in the basement of the lab in a build, in a. Basically a coffin is what it looked like, with. Ceilings are copper and the walls are copper, so no electromagnetism can get in there. And so they had all these cameras outside pointing up at the sky. And. And I'm in this thing and they have Dr. Thompson from. From New York, Neuros. Neurophd in neuroscience was monitoring me. And he said, if you. If you sense a UFO over the complex, just point to the ceiling. Every time I pointed, they were filming something above the. The building. And that from that point on, John and a whole lot of other scientists says this proves this consciousness, it's not electromagnetic, it's consciousness. So it's instantaneous. It's that thoughts, which is what's creating everything. Wow. Yeah.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Well, if you think of, you know, we have phonons, which are sort of, you know, quantum vibration packets. And then you have photons, which are quantum light packets. Maybe at some point we'll figure out quantum thought packets or something.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That's it. It's all thought. It's just. It's just how it works with me. You know, I don't have to go out and speak to get this thing to come. I just think about. Knows our thoughts completely and in advance of what you're going to think. You can't fool it at all. There's no way.

[Jesse]

Wow.

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[Jesse]

I want to go where other people haven't gone in interviews with you.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

Do you feel like, you know, when you read, like, and this is going to sound like a crazy question, but like when you read the Book of Acts and you know, learn about Jesus, do you feel like he is.

[Chris Bledsoe]

A.

[Jesse]

State of being that others can get to through kind of, you know, really spiritual, profound kind of experiences? What Diana Pasalka calls in her book, hierophanies, Revelations. And again, this is not to make him out to be this exclusive, untouchable, you know, being or state, but like maybe, maybe some people can reach a state. And do you feel like maybe you're, you're in that sort of Christ consciousness and that allows you to, to have an effect on people?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, 100%. And you know, the way I was born and raised a Baptist and, and married a Pentecostal holiness girl and, and you know, was very deep into the church and loved it. And my wife still goes, she was at church yesterday and, or the day before Sunday. But the way, you know, when Jesus came, he wasn't a Christian. He was just saying the kingdom of heaven is within you. You can talk to God yourself and you don't need to pay anybody to have that. And I don't think they liked him saying that a whole lot. And his life was cut short because of that.

[Jesse]

Well, that's one of my favorite lines. It's in an apocryphal, you know, the Gospel of Thomas, but it's, you know, if you look to the sea, the fish will proceed you. If you look to the sky, the birds will proceed you. The kingdom of heaven is inside of you.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Exactly.

[Jesse]

And all around you. And you know, and then you'll have hardcore biblical scholars say, ah, that was written 150 years later and doesn't matter.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That's the words Jesus used. The kingdom of heaven is within you. That spark, that divine spark. And, and you can. Yeah.

[Jesse]

Do you, how do you, how do you. Because like, I feel like my on worldview and ontology in some ways matches a lot of yours and what you say. And then I think there are a lot of people out there who are like, who is this guy saying that he sees orbs? And, you know, that's a 747 or a satellite or whatever. What do you, what do you say to those people?

[Chris Bledsoe]

You know, I expect that. I've learned until you see it, experience it, you're just uninformed. You know, it's real, it's 100% real. And I have shared it with groups as large as a thousand at one time with a PA and the most liberal UFO group you know, I've ever been to was contact in the desert this past summer, right? And here I am being drugged by the hand all day. You need to be in this room at this time. This room at that time, hadn't eaten all day, hadn't been to the bathroom. And it's like 7 o' clock at night. And I'm finally, you know, and I deal with rheumatoids, so my energy levels in the evening are low. My wife comes in or the, My assistant comes and he says, oh, you got to sky watch it at, at 9:00', clock, it was 8. And I'm like, oh my God, I forgot all about that huge pressure. It's, it's cloudy, it's raining in Palm Springs. It never rains in Palm Springs, right? It's sprinkling. And they said, there's a big group sitting outside waiting on you. So I like, I'm like, I took my, told my wife, I said, take me somewhere to where nobody can see me because if they See me, there was always 50 people in line, right? So she took me over to a little seating area where it was dark. And I lay back, I looked up at the sky and I said, lord, I need help. I'm stressed tonight. It's raining. There's a thousand people out there wanting to see something. And suddenly when I said that, my wife sitting beside me, I heard this, this telepathic voice say, don't worry about the rain, it'll just get more interesting. And then I saw these three orange orbs come down under the clouds and this digital digit that said 9:45 just flashed right up. I said, okay, there'll be three orange orbs at 9:45. So I got up, I walked over to the center of a thousand people. They're in a big circle and I'm in a 20 foot circle that they kept that where I could walk around in it with a microphone. And so I told the whole group an hour in advance. I said, At 9:45 there'll be three orange orbs that appear underneath the clouds. And exactly at 9:45 it happened.

[Jesse]

Whoa. Do you have video of that?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Wow.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And you can hear me on the microphone. It's all recorded predicting it an hour in advance. I didn't predict it, I saw it. It shared it with me. Wow. Yeah.

[Jesse]

That's so fascinating. It's like the Fatima prophecy, but compressed. And at a UFO conference.

[Chris Bledsoe]

But you know what I did? I'm at a UFO conference in there. You know, some of them's got tenfold hats on and they have all these galactic federation. Well, it doesn't compute with me, right? So I basically held a little church at the most liberal thing I did, not church, but I said, look, we're just going to say a little prayer here. This is how it works for me. There is no summoning. All this thing you hear about, summoning these things. If they're having negative experiences, whoever's doing this, well, that's why, because you're open to anything coming. But I always use a little prayer. And so I just told him, I said, I believe that the Holy Spirit is this beautiful lady that gave me this information. And I'm just going to ask her right now to share her presence with us. And that's the only thing I said.

[Jesse]

What do you think of? Because it seems like you're coming at this from a very spiritual perspective. There are rumors that the legacy UFO program itself uses protocols to attract UFOs to come in, sometimes use directed energy weapons against them, get them to land Psionically, through what they call psionic assets. So that would be finding somebody maybe similarly tapped in as you are, but who's sort of not maybe come about it in the more kind of earnest spiritual way through life experience that you did. Maybe they just have some ability or maybe they've been given a protocol or something.

[Narrator]

What are psionic assets?

[Jesse]

When we look at collecting data, one of the areas that we look to collect data is through a psionic asset, which is an individual who's trained in remote viewing, psychic abilities, telekinesis, that type of thing, which is basically through a number of different protocols, can transition into a place where they are highly sensitive to their environment from, from the point of view of consciousness through a consciousness field. How do you feel about that? Attracting crafts to come down, trying to derive material from these crafts or get downloads from them, but for like defense, you know, kind of military, industrial complex purposes?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, I've been, you know, I work in and around a lot of those people and I've had a lot of proposals that you wouldn't believe, even proposals. If I could get it to come down, could they shoot at it? I'm like, absolutely not. Yeah, that's not going to happen with me. You want to study it? What I, what I see is it's wanting to communicate with us. You hear about all that, but I've not seen any of it. I haven't seen the results. So there's a lot of talk out there, but not a lot of data to show. Right. Where I show the data, I take a thousand people out or 500 out, and we get things that appear to have wings. Orange glowing beings, as many as 20 at the time, fly 25ft over our head and appear out of thin air, poo. Come right over us glowing. And so it's very spiritual and sacred to me. And I would never. But as far as you know, I heard some of the things on Age of Disclosure and they were talking about negative parts of it or spin negative. I've never experienced that ever in my whole 19 years of doing it. In fact, you talked about the Book of Acts when Saul was on the road to Damascus. What was it that appeared and blinded him?

[Jesse]

What was it?

[Chris Bledsoe]

It was an orb. Whoa. Flashed him. Said it flashed around him, blinded him. It was a ball of light. Same thing. And so, you know, it's all in your thought process. If you grounded with that humbleness and earnesty and you love, then you're going to get that. But if you put something out, I mean, if we want Aliens, Right. We create this in our brain if we want aliens with ray guns. If you get enough of the population to think on that, that's probably what'll manifest.

[Jesse]

What do you think the orbs are? It's this sort of perennial question because I think a lot of people have these experiences. I think a lot, you know, they, they'll meditate, they'll be deep in prayer and they'll see something. Come. I, I, I have an experience like that where I was doing holotropic breath work with a friend in Silver Lake, California of all places, like the last place you'd ever expect to see anything. And we saw two metallic orbs show up and it doesn't feel coincidental that, like, you know, for him, I think it was his first time doing holotropic breath work and.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

You know, you're supposed, that's supposed to get you into a state where your brain, I think, endogenously releases dmt. And you're right, you're in this kind of heightened spiritual state.

[Chris Bledsoe]

What do I think it is?

[Jesse]

What do you think they are?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, I'm very careful to try not to label because it's all speculation. You know, you asked the question, what do you think? Well, I'm guessing right, all of us are sure. And nobody's experienced that. I don't think any more than I have. I see it just about every day of my life and it comes in my house, orbs appearing in my room, over my chairs and flying through the house and stuff.

[Jesse]

So you think you experience it more than anybody in the world.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I haven't seen anybody with the data I have. Show me the data. And then we, you know what I'm saying? But people are seeing it now. And I predicted that. In my book, you'll read where I wrote about a certain incident that was going to happen in the future, which was when Iran and Israel began to exchange missiles at one another. At that point is when these balls of light, these orbs were going to start appearing and revealing themselves to the world. I wrote about that and that was something I've talked about for 10, 12 years. And then look, last November, these drones, supposedly. Drones that show up, those aren't drones. They're orbs coming out of the sea appearing and they're saying stop. They de. Escalated and they kind of settled. They started putting F35s in Poland. All of a sudden, now there's orbs all over Europe.

[Jesse]

So what do you think the orbs are.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Based on? The patterns that I've seen, I'M saying, I'm guessing. Right. But 19 years of research and prayer, simple prayer, that mindset. Don't have to say it verbally. Just think it lends me to believe it's something connected to our thoughts, very caring, loving, and our beings. I can share a video with you of an orb with a lady standing beside me and another lady. I got one on each side. This one has cancer. Stage 4 kidney cancer.

[Jesse]

Jesus.

[Chris Bledsoe]

She's missing one kidney already. Year and a half later, it metastasizes in her other kidney. She calls me. So she's worried about her. The chemo's not working, so she had a very poor chance of survival. So she calls me and comes to my house. This was in 2015, I guess, and 2013, maybe. And she brings her girlfriends, like five of them. So it's all of those. Myself, my wife and some of my children and three Native Americans. They're outside. They're. They just happen to show up at the same time, friends of mine. And so I got them to kind of do a spiritual song that they do for healing for her. All of a sudden in the video, you'll see an orb appear. It comes zooming right up to me, and all of a sudden it flashes. And out of that comes a tall, glowing figure, about 6 to 7ft tall. And then it just kind of moves over out of the camera right in front of this lady. And then she goes to get her scan on Monday and has them on cancer. What? Yeah. And I have it on video, so.

[Jesse]

I would love to see that video.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I'll share it in a little bit with you.

[Jesse]

That would be amazing. That's amazing.

[Chris Bledsoe]

So 19 years. I have more data about this and more than most people can imagine.

[Jesse]

Would she ever go on record and talk about this?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, probably.

[Jesse]

Wow. I'd love to speak with her. This is so. It's so amazing.

[Chris Bledsoe]

So this is why I always lend to the spiritual side. You know, I believe that if there's. What is an angel, it's a messenger. I don't know what it is. I know that it is to me. And it could be just a fractal of consciousness itself, which. That word means God. In the end, it comes back to the creation or the creator, that mind. So maybe these lights are just fractals of that, but I don't know.

[Jesse]

Do you believe Tim Taylor is a time traveler?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, I'm guessing. You know, people say that, but it's possible. It's very possible.

[Jesse]

We were talking right before we were rolling about intersection points, points where Maybe you can hop between timelines or something.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Exactly.

[Jesse]

What is that? What does that mean to you?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, you know, it's just hard to wrap your head around. There's no words for that. The vocabulary for all this is just like very small. But yeah, I'll have to think on that one, what it means.

[Jesse]

I was having a dream the other night about that, about timelines changing, shifting and it was such a weird dream, but it was like, you know, it's like there's stories of this is really random, but like Bill Murray, the actor, right, he'll walk around New York City and he'll like take a french fry from somebody, eat it, you know, in their restaurant or whatever. And you know, it'll just like literally like off the street. And then they'll look at him, they'll be like, that's Bill Murray, like taking my fry or whatever. And, and then he'll look at them and he'll go, no one will ever believe you. And that's what a lot of the phenomenon feels like. It feels like self concealing, you know, it's like the perfect, I'm sure the perfect amount of the video that you described was cut off where open minded people will believe it and then some hyper skeptic will not.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

And there's, it's, it's like there is always some little stigma left on the evidence that you do have that is fully debunkable. But it's always like this.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Like that's the phenomenon.

[Jesse]

It is, it's messing with it and.

[Chris Bledsoe]

It'S designed as doing that because there are three kinds of people. I've talked about this many times. There are three types, yes, probably more. But there are people that can see, right? That can see this. There are people that I can teach to see and there are people that can never see.

[Jesse]

Oh, damn.

[Chris Bledsoe]

They'll never see it because they're skeptical. And when you're skeptical about this, you will never be in the club ever. It will not let you in because it doesn't want to mess with your free will.

[Jesse]

But skepticism is also good.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, but some skeptics can come seers, right?

[Jesse]

Sure.

[Chris Bledsoe]

But there are some that can never. Their brains are wired, you know, to where it's a block.

[Jesse]

You do need some filtering mechanism. You need some. Something in your brain being like that feels wrong or false. Right. You know, what's the phrase? You know, your mind can be so open, your brain can fall out.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, right.

[Jesse]

So how do you view that? Because discernment seems like an important, you know, Part of waiting your way through this topic.

[Chris Bledsoe]

20 years of it, 19 years of me when it first happened. All I know is that I was afraid when I was looking at it in the broad daylight. It came out of the sky in daytime. It wasn't a dream and it wasn't at night. It was in the broad daylight. Then they came and they took me. So that programmed me in a way. There was never doubting, ever doubting.

[Jesse]

Describe this whole experience so you. There was just broad daylight and they came and took you. Who's they?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, they. Whoever they are.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And this is in my book, UFO of God, by the way.

[Jesse]

I haven't check it out.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I haven't plugged it yet. It was 19 years ago. On January 8th of 2007 will be 19 years. I was down and out and lost everything. Lost my home, my income. I had too many houses on the market. I was building 100 homes a year and had been for 19, 20 years. And the World Trade center thing happened and then the housing bubble bust and so I found myself in a place where I was living in a million dollar home on the golf course. And now I'm in a mobile home with no income and I'm having to apply for free lunch for my kids. That's how bad it got. And so I'm crying out to God walking along. I had gone fishing at the river with my son and three other guys and they wanted to fish and so I walked away. They were sitting on the bank of the Cape river river and I walked up the way we came in, we were down in the bottom. You know, you cross a big cornfield and then you go down in the river bottom. So that about a quarter mile down in the bottom is where they were sitting on the bank. And I told them I'm going to walk up to the field and look for deer or whatever, just wildlife. Not telling them how depressed I was and where I was. I mean I was struggling bad sick with Crohn's disease, had it 18 years suffering with it. And anyhow, I walk up to that field and it was just about 10 after 5 when I started up that way. Took about five minutes to walk, maybe eight. And when I got to the top of that hill, there they were, two these big balls of fire, like flaming 40 foot round red orange glowing balls of fire. And the fire is going around it and these little tips were shooting off of it flames. And there were two of them side by side, very low down, probably a couple hundred feet above the trees and about 300 yards away. And I'm at the back of the field, and they're up at the road, the highway, you know, that's where they were. And I'm sitting there looking at them, scared to death. First I was mesmerized. Like, what in the world? I'm a commercial pilot, still have my tickets. And so I knew right away what we were looking at wasn't anything Fort Bragg or any military anybody had. And so the chill came over me. It's like, oh, my God, what am I looking at? So this is. My mind went from amazement to fear suddenly. And then I guess, five, ten minutes sitting there watching it. I got so afraid, I wanted to run. So I turned my body and pointed down the hill to go run down to where my son was on the bank of the river. And I had to look back one more time. So I turned to look back before I went to run. And when I did, the third one, a third one above me was invisible. It was not visible. It just appeared and shot right straight down in front of me. 5:15, 5:30 in the evening in January. It's not dark. Four hours later, I come walking back to the river where they were, and my son was missing. He wasn't there. He had gotten lost looking for me on foot. I couldn't compute any of that. How I had been gone for 20 minutes is all I could think. And they were fussing at me. Where have you been? We've been looking you all night. And it took me. It took me a long time to reconcile that. And then my Crohn's was gone. I had no more sickness. And if anybody has Crohn's, knows how bad that is. It's. It's the worst thing. You know, you're in a restroom 10 times a day. I was at 20 times a day at that point in my life. So I'm suffering with sickness and suffering mentally and depressed and finding all of it. I'm at the very bottom, crying out, lord, help me. What do I do?

[Jesse]

You're living in a relatively small town in North Carolina where you were, you know, very successful and known by all your community members. And you were at the depths of kind of despair and I'm sure feeling like a pariah or something among your community.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Oh, yeah. I came back excited to tell it. And that's when basically, the next five years of darkness I talk about my book started. And it was the pitchforks came out, the holy water came out, and the social services came to my house trying to remove me from the house.

[Jesse]

But real quick. Yeah. So you said that you thought it was 20 minutes had gone by.

[Chris Bledsoe]

It was four hours.

[Jesse]

It was four hours. And do you remember what you had experienced? Did you recover the memory?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I recovered quite a bit of them.

[Jesse]

How'd you recover them?

[Chris Bledsoe]

A time and through hypnosis and a doctor from Harvard helping me. And then you got to wonder, is it all real? But I can tell you they talk telepathically.

[Jesse]

Who's the doctor from Harvard?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Dr. Michael O' Connell is his name.

[Jesse]

And is he. He's done this with other experience.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, he was trained by John Mack.

[Jesse]

That's amazing.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

I didn't know there was a doctor at Harvard currently who was trained by. So John Mack was the head of the Harvard psychiatry department who saw a lot of experiencers. And originally he got into it because he was interested in missing time. It's like all these people are coming with missing time. And then he had been childhood friends synchronistically with Bud Hopkins, who was very interested and experiencers abductees. So he has an heir at Harvard. John Mack does Michael o'. Connell.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, he's dead now. He died.

[Jesse]

Oh, that's unfortunate. I was literally going to be like, I want to interview him.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, he's. He was a. I love the guy. I mean, we bonded really close until he died. He lived in South Carolina, so I lived, you know, hour and a half from him. So we visited a lot.

[Jesse]

Wow. I think another thing for people to understand, if they are skeptical of something coming out in a hypnotic regression. These experiences are so traumatic, they're so foreign to you when they happen. If you look at any other extremely traumatizing experience just in the world, a woman who's raped or somebody experiences child abuse or something extremely serious, that just shatters your whole being, you will repress that memory and it will often have, you know, you'll have fragments of it, you'll have shards of it, but it'll be like broken glass. And it will. You'll need techniques like this at times to recover those memories. So this guy, Michael o', Connell, works with you.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

And what do you end up recovering?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, what he. You know, what he did. I'll give you a short on what he did. He. He came and he started just dialogue talking and told me that he knew from his studies that they can tend to pack a lot of information in your mind and it's locked away in there and that it. If you were to remember it all at one time, it probably drive you crazy. So he. I Can tell you I had severe headaches. If I tried to think past that missing time, I would pass out. I did it over and over. When they would question me, I'd get to a point and I couldn't think anymore, and the headaches would come so bad, I would pass out.

[Jesse]

You know, there's. There's a really great book by. My mind's just going to all these crazy places, but there's a book called Healing Back Pain by Paul Sarno. It's this amazing book that healed a lot of people's back psychosomatically because it talks about chronic pain as being adaptive from a psychosomatic perspective. And so maybe even this was the case with your Crohn's disease that you were facing, where it is more adaptive to feel physical pain at times than to process emotional pain. And so it would make sense that actually physical pain would be the blocker for something that was maybe more emotionally.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

Painful or transformative or something.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Makes sense.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

So. So we started working together, and he would tell me, we're going to. We're going to program you to where that. All that this information comes out. Little at a time, not too much, but you'll remember it all. That's what he said immediately when he did work with me. Within days of I started having these nightmares and dreaming and speaking in my sleep and talking, and my wife and kids were videoing me into bed. They'd hear me, you know, saying all kinds of crazy things about my experience and. But what. What it was like, Jesse, was like a virtual tour. In other words, they took me. The first thing I remembered was seeing Egypt. Why? Over the pyramids. Looking over the pyramids and seeing the Sphinx. That's all. I remember that. And seeing this temple, Hathor's temple, and all the animals and the birds. It was just like this video that was playing in my brain about Egypt. So I, you know, I studied everything I could study about that. I went to scholars like Dr. Gilbert and learned from Robert all kinds of sacred geometry.

[Jesse]

And I didn't know you learned from Robert Gilbert.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, he lived in Asheville, right close to me. So.

[Jesse]

Famous Rosicrucian scholar.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Interesting.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Loved a guy. Wow.

[Jesse]

Yeah, he very sad. He passed away. Was, I think, a nuclear chemist. And he just passed away from cancer very recently this year, I believe.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, this year. But a world of knowledge. And he helped me a lot, understanding the symbols I saw about Egypt. And then, you know, 2019 comes along. I write about this in my book. I'm sick with rheumatoid. Arthritis now, and I've been on chemotherapy for like six, seven years. I'm down to 150 some pounds walking on a cane, and now I'm migrating to a wheelchair. That's where I was in 2019. Diana and Tim were in the Vatican archives in 2017. And I was supposed to go with them, but I couldn't. I was sick and they were.

[Jesse]

Oh, you were supposed to go on that trip.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, it could have been arranged. Yeah, it was all about me, the. The whole thing. When they went there, they had a ceremony in the Vatican.

[Jesse]

It was supposed to be a ceremony for you?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, they had a ceremony. They put my picture and the picture of the Pope on the outside of the archives, and then they placed my photo between the books of Galileo and Copernicus.

[Jesse]

Really?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. To be there forever.

[Jesse]

No way.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, sure did.

[Jesse]

Do you have. You have photos of this?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I do.

[Jesse]

Could you send that? Wow, this is amazing.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. So, so.

[Jesse]

And who was. Was Tim Taylor prompting them to do this ceremony, or.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I think Diana's connection to the Vatican. And this, the lady I speak about, you know, here I come in 2012, having an experience with this lady, this beautiful, glowing lady. That. Boy, that was something too, because that was at the end of five years, and I was fighting the government, the social services, for my sanity.

[Jesse]

Yeah, but real quick. So. Because you were describing your first experience, that.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

You know, o' Connell helped you get out. And so you're around the pyramids, you see the sacred geometry which Dr. Robert Gilbert helps you kind of decode. Did you decode anything? Did you notice any sort of messaging?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, I did. I started seeing likeness. And the way they portray their deities is in the whole matrix of the thing. You know, it's like when Jesus was born, it said an angel came and said, go to Egypt.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, we don't realize that Egypt was controlled by Greece for 500 years before that. Right. So perfect fit for him to go there and to grow up there. And when you start seeing the similarities between the two, there's pretty much the same thing.

[Jesse]

And there are stories between.

[Chris Bledsoe]

The Trinity, Jesus in the Trinity, and then Ra and Horus and the whole thing. They have a triad there. Right. But their. Their deities are portrayed as animals, birds, forces of nature. This is what Dr. Gilbert spoke about. It's all about everything, nature and humanity. And so. And then you read the story of Ezekiel and the will within the will, right. He walks between two of the cherubim, it says, and he walked between them, and there he met an angel. Right. And what was it? It had places of animals and only one. Part human. So it's not like grandma with wings and a beautiful robe. Right. It's just these things are creatures and they're. It's always.

[Jesse]

Did you see these creatures?

[Chris Bledsoe]

No, I only. I've studied them.

[Jesse]

Okay.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I saw the creatures. Yeah. I drew them.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

When they were little glowing beings about the stuff.

[Jesse]

But those seem more of the variety of the extraterrestrials or aliens people kind of experience.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, they say that until you read Daniel, chapter 10, when it talks about an angel that he saw. And when I described this little being, I said he looked like glass. He was so shiny, his whole body was glowing. Like he had a suit on that was gleaming like glass.

[Jesse]

Do you see this alien in the. In the craft or.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I saw it standing from me to you. From me.

[Jesse]

And this was in the. On the. In, like the woods.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Near your house.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. And I wrote about this and.

[Jesse]

And he had a little triangle.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Triangle on his chest. Yeah. Funny. There's a triangle right there. Right.

[Jesse]

Oh, there you go. I was thinking that when you were like, look at my little pendant, I was like, well, was that an homage to the triangle from the alien being.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That was from NASA? And two, I have multiple videos, and if we go sky watching at some point, you'll see the phenomena will always try to line up in a triangle or in threes.

[Jesse]

Interesting. So it's like maybe the Trinity.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. It's telling us something. Right? What is that? I don't know. I'm so speculation. I'm learning.

[Jesse]

What else did Robert Gilbert tell you? Because he did seem like a person who was very tapped into.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Oh, yeah.

[Jesse]

Kind of deeper, esoteric truths.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, A lot. I learned a lot from him that. That helped me understand that this world is so far more complex. For example, he described pendulums. If you go to Egypt and you dig in the soil there, the most artifacts that they find under the ground in Egypt are pendulums.

[Jesse]

Is that true? Yeah, that's the most frequent artifact.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That's the most frequent. They find the millions of them. And so he explained to me what they knew and how the people that set Washington up, they did the same thing. Why they have an obelisk in Washington, why they have one in Central park, why is there one in France and in England? They have. And they went to Egypt and got those things and brought them back and stood the stones up.

[Jesse]

Well, you know, if you look at Charles l', Enfant, you have all this kind of freemasonic symbolism around dc, and that is definitely derived from ancient Egypt. In fact, I've been inside of this, like, Freemasonic Temple in D.C. and. And by the way, I'm not a Freemason.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

I wouldn't be saying this if I was obviously. Right. But like, it's. It's just. You might as well be in like, an Egyptian temple or something. It's all Egyptian symbology.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And so you think there's like a link between.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I think there's. It's a big mystery, but there's a link. Some. Yeah. Some way or another.

[Jesse]

Wow.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

So interesting. And then the other connection for you with ancient Egypt is so you're around the pyramids and you see these symbols, but. And then you obviously encounter these beings, but later you encounter the lady and she describes herself as Hathor. Is that right?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, that was one name. She is. She said she had many names and she had been called many things throughout the world. In other words, Diana, Demeter, Isis, Hathor, Hera, the Virgin Mary, everything. She's had many names throughout history and by every culture. And the way she explained it to me helped me understand religion in a different way. How people conceive, you know, like the. The Taoist or the. The Muslims or the. The Catholics or whoever only imagine God in their minds. We all do. We imagine that and it turns into an ugly thing because religions tend to think they have the skivvy on God and therefore we're going to go to war with you because you don't believe like us. That's. That's the problem that has to stop. This is the message. She told me that she had many names throughout history and that God is God and we don't know what we think we know, and we need to sit back and reanalyze and, you know, be good children and. Or we're going off the cliff. That's kind of the thing she told me, and she told me about the missiles. That was in 2012, but it was so much there. I came out of the. In 2012 telling it, like, right away, what that. That she explained to me.

[Jesse]

And you received a prophecy about 2026 as well, right?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse]

And what was that?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, she said, and I had no idea what it meant. Still don't. Other than she said that when the star of Regulus, which is a blue star, when it appears red on the horizon at the dawn before the sun comes up and the gaze of the Sphinx. In other words, I saw it in a vision. The whole thing. You could. Sphinx Facing east and this thing's just cresting the top. She said when that happens, that will be a sign that ushers in a new knowledge for humanity. So does that mean the return of Jesus or the return of Christ consciousness? It could, and I think that's possible. But. It marks a sign, she said, where the, the darkness would be exposed and the truth would be revealed. So I think we're going to learn something over the next couple of years that, you know. And this was 12 years ago. I said this 13 years ago, 2012. Yeah, right. And how when these missiles started flying and the orbs started appearing, that got a lot of attention on me real quick.

[Jesse]

Yeah, it's funny, I'm caught between two minds. One is, I think even the Book of Matthew, it's something like nobody knows today or other than God paraphrasing. But yeah, nobody knows the day. And then on the other hand, it does feel like just this gestalt sense of like things are getting weirder, dark truths are being revealed ongoing. It feels like it's already started and it feels like we're on the verge of some sort of paradox shift.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, we are, definitely. Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. 100 and I think everybody sees something coming and a new knowledge just coming and a new shift that things that I know that. Imagine a world without oil.

[Jesse]

So you think we're going to have free energy at some point soon or something.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Imagine a world without rockets.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Chris Bledsoe]

So that kind of knowledge alone would change everything, all of humanity. And so that's in our future.

[Jesse]

Well, that was Thomas Townsend Brown's vision, you know, a world beyond rockets that, you know, he had this model of electrogravitics which connected electromagnetism and gravity, which, you know, in kind of our standard physics is, you know, we don't have a link between those two things.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

And if you were to get a link, if the input was pure electromagnetism or, you know, electrical, and the output was some sort of gravity gravitational perturbation, that, that would be paradigm shifting. I mean, you get well beyond what SpaceX is, which is extremely inefficient. You know, most of, I believe the starship, their latest rocket is, I think it's 5,000 metric tons and an extremely high percentage of that. I mean, the payload capacity of it is like 150 tons. So that ratio alone, it's all fuel. The whole thing is fuel.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

That's not efficient. That's not alien. Interstellar space travel doesn't make sense.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, I imagine a day that we Won't need those things. In fact, they probably already had that.

[Jesse]

Do you think they did?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I think so.

[Jesse]

Really?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I think it's possible.

[Jesse]

So why not? Because. Why not let it out then?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Because would change everything. It could. It could create something that has to be given slowly.

[Jesse]

It's too disruptive.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Too disruptive. Yeah.

[Jesse]

It would definitely be destabilizing for institutions.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Exactly.

[Jesse]

You know, if you had, say right now we're paying. I'm just going to throw fake numbers out there, but $15, you know, per kilowatt hour for electricity or whatever. If that reduced to $0.10 per kilowatt hour, a whole lot of institutions would kind of crumble. Corporations would experience a lot of like. For the people who are like, there, it wouldn't, you know, destabilize things. I think that's crazy. I think it would. I think it'd be very positive.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, it would be in the end. But imagine the oil tankers, thousands of them, or refineries and all the job involved with it. So.

[Jesse]

Sure.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

But then imagine the abundance on the other side. All of those people, their quality of life. Of life would be dramatically different. Better.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

So.

[Chris Bledsoe]

So is that the new knowledge? I don't know, but I think that is a. There's a whole lot of things that are going to come forward that have been hidden from us. And the main thing is the truth. That we're not alone.

[Jesse]

Yeah. I mean, that. Well, that's clear to me. You know, I think that's. That's definitely a thing.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And so I believe next year we'll be closer to that.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And the word apocalypse, by the way, you know what that means?

[Jesse]

Unveiling.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. To reveal a secret.

[Jesse]

To reveal the secret.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That's all. And people think when you hear that, and if you look on Google, it says the ultimate destruction. The end. You know, it's lying to us. That's not what the word means at all. It means to reveal that which has been hidden and it's.

[Jesse]

It's the veil thinning. And I think for some people that will be very good and for other people will be very bad. It depends on your orientation to it.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

And I think it does have this connotation of, you know, beezle bub, coming down and breathing fire onto everybody, sorting people and whatever. But like, I think if you were oriented in a. In a good way spiritually, I, you know, I don't think it'll necessarily be bad for you. I also don't even, you know, we're talking about it like it's one, you know, crazy event with these like divine beings. Maybe it's like a slow moving thing.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That's exactly the way I see it. It's not like snap your fingers and something. We're not going to wake up on Easter or whenever that time happens.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I'm torn by the way, because for eight years I wrote and talked about this alignment being in September or somewhere in the fall because that was the date given to me by some people into astrology. And then they come back, right, when I go to write my book and say, oh, we made a mistake, it said Easter. And I thought, well, that sounds plausible because the lady's always coming around Easter. I have this and saying experiences every year at Easter.

[Jesse]

Are you still having them?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

That's amazing. So you still speak every year and you think it's the same. The Virgin Mary, Hathor, Demeter, you think all of these.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I think it's the Sophia, the Wisdom, the Holy Spirit.

[Jesse]

So that would be kind of the Gnostic version or something.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's who I think that this, this being is. It was a spirit and it was definitely holy in her presence. Right. And so, and when she physically impacted me because the wind blew me backwards to the ground, it was such a blast of wind that blew me down and I started researching that. And the word spirit is the wind, right. And the word Holy Spirit is the breath of God, but it was the wind that affected me and the power from it. This cow came over me, but the wind pushed me back.

[Jesse]

What does she look like?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Look like the most beautiful 35, 40 year old woman you've ever seen. Just glowing and typical Virgin Mary apparition type thing. And you know, this thing, this, this, this spirit appears in every country. It appeared to the Native Americans in, in the Wild west back, you know, they called her the White Buffalo Calf lady. The Egyptians called her Hathor. And earlier before met and the birth mother, the, the, the Creator. In Proverbs in the Bible, chapter eight and nine talks about wisdom. It's the name of the chapters and it talks about. And she was created before the earth was created, before the beginning of time. Wow. So who is she? I don't know, but that's my thought.

[Jesse]

What, what was the feeling that came over you when you saw her, when you see her regularly?

[Chris Bledsoe]

It's. When I first saw her, it was, it was very impactful because the, the cow ran me over and so I had this extreme fright to start with. And then I land on my back and I Roll over to get up and run. And there's this beautiful woman. So I went from extreme fear to, oh, my God, what is this in front of me?

[Jesse]

Is the cow running you over? Part of the whole thing is that.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That was part of the. Her coming at me. She came at me at night out of the darkness, as a wind. The wind hit me. And as I'm going backwards to the ground, I see a translucent cow run over top of me. And I could see stars up through the thing. I'm like, oh, my God. And. And I was frightened so bad, I landed on my back. I turned to get up and run, and there's this woman about from here to that camera, three feet off the ground, hovering. And she looked at me, and she said, you know why I'm here? And I'll tell you why she said that. Because five years had gone by, 2007 to 2012, and I had been beaten down and broken by the community. My children were falling apart. The schools, the teachers were calling them to the side. Is your dad crazy? We hear about all this. Are you all right? Somebody from there called social services on me, and I had to fight to be at home with my children. It was that bad. So five years of that. I walked out on Easter Saturday night, Easter of 2012, Sunday morning's Easter, right? And I shouted to this guy, thank you for saving me. Thank you for healing me, but you've ruined my life. Now my children are affected, and I have caused them great harm. And. And I'll never speak about this again. Even though I had the desire. They put this in me. Like the famous movie Close Encounters, where, you see, he's making a mashed potato mountain on his dirt, and he's throwing it in the window and bushes, and he's creating Devil's Tower, right? He didn't know what it was, but it was in his head. So I was that guy. I had to tell everybody. And the more I told it, the more trouble I got myself into.

[Jesse]

And what you're referencing with your family is Junior, your son, who had gone looking for you, also Saw beings, was really shocked, right, at what he experienced.

[Chris Bledsoe]

It was a community that caused him to want to leave home.

[Jesse]

Really?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. Yeah. He's 17 years old, and my right hand, it was with me everywhere I went. And we come home telling the world about it, and now the whole community has come on us. And so five years into it, I'm out telling the heavens, I quit. I'll never talk about it again. And then she appears and says, you Know why I'm here. This is your burden you must bear. You have to tell what you know. And if you do, I will allow you to video record and film my presence and share it with others.

[Jesse]

The lady said.

[Chris Bledsoe]

She told me that.

[Jesse]

And are you going to.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, let me tell you, from 2007 to 2012, I had zero data. I was out every night with a camera trying to get pictures to save myself from the community. Right. The more I tried, the less it would let me film it. It'd be hovering in the trees behind my house. I pull the camera out, and it would vanish every time. So I was angry about that. I'm trying to prove myself sane, and my child is now left home because the community has just been tough. So she's like, you're not going to quit. I'm going to help you. So from that point forward, I started being able to film it and sharing it with anybody. And I've amassed terabytes and terabytes of data. Video, photo, audio, and never a picture until 2012 when she came.

[Jesse]

Why do you think these guys from NASA are showing up at your door? We mentioned Tim Taylor earlier. He's a NASA mission controller. But Hal Poven Meyer also showed up originally. And I think you, Ryan, your son, mentioned that kind of at the end of his life, you realized that he was both CIA and NASA.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And so what do you think their interest in all of this is?

[Chris Bledsoe]

There are a lot more NASA guys. That was just two of them, really. I had dinner with Hal's wife this weekend. She came from Florida to Chris Jr's wedding.

[Jesse]

Oh, wow.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, we love them. But there are a lot of other NASA guys that I'm currently talking with. Several. One tells me wherever I go. But they're all interested.

[Jesse]

They tail you wherever you go.

[Chris Bledsoe]

They're there with me.

[Jesse]

Really?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. Usually traveling with me. Somebody associated with that. Yeah.

[Jesse]

What do you think they want?

[Chris Bledsoe]

They all want to study it. They want to know. And they observe it with me. They. I take them out and we, you know, we do a lot of work.

[Jesse]

Are they with you in Austin, Texas.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And nobody wanted to be. I only have one night, and my wife's friend traveled with me because she was at our house and her kids are right down the street. But usually I go nowhere without somebody with me for a reason. Wow. Yeah, I've had some things that. That caused me to want to have somebody with me all the time.

[Jesse]

What happened that caused you to want to not go anywhere on a company?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, I've been threatened A few times by different ones. And I was at the PSI Games this year. Psy Games, I call it Psi. Psi Games. And came out of a conference, speaking. And when I walked out the door, this mad lady comes running up to me and tries to kidnap me. What? Yeah, as something with drugs on it tried to get me in a van with no driver with no tags on it. Security had to come. They had to call the law on her. Yeah. So crazy, crazy people.

[Jesse]

Yeah. I imagine you attract a lot of nutty people.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Big time.

[Jesse]

What do you think the Vatican knows about all of this? If they had a picture of you and they were doing some ceremony about you and you were supposed to come, what do you think they think of you?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, I can share a couple photos of you for that, but I got three pictures, several. Quite a few paintings that they have in the Vatican that Diana sent me from there. And Pope Francis, she said to tell me that they know that they're angels, that they don't mean to harm us, but their energy, if they get excited, can cause harm to a human. So just be careful and try to ask it not to get too close to you. And these three photos or paintings show orbs with angels in them. That's what they told me.

[Jesse]

Yeah, because, you know, you have St. Francis of Assisi, who she writes about in 13th century Mount Laverne, Italy. Brother Leo is right next to him and he sees this angel, but if you look at the original Greek translation, it's a flaming torch. She thinks it's this UFO experience and that the stigmata he receives, these wounds on his hands, are actually electromagnetic damage that, like, you know, Gary Nolan or somebody studying kind of modern experiencers interacting with UFOs might just say, oh, that's like an electromagnetic burn. Or you, like, you see it in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. You see the. The burn on his face?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I got. I got. Yeah, I got radiation burns, plasma radiation. That's what NASA told me. It was the.

[Jesse]

So you got. You also got plasma radiation burns.

[Chris Bledsoe]

No, I didn't. But I was warned a million times by how Poppen, Meyer and different ones at NASA kept calling me, honestly, over and over, don't let him get too close. Don't get too close to them. The HAL was telling me that they knew the voltage was like 33 million volts in one of these things, and if it got near me, it would kill me dead.

[Jesse]

So they have, like, a scientific model of how these angels work at NASA.

[Chris Bledsoe]

They know a lot more than we know, than we think. They do they just don't share it. Right.

[Jesse]

So who is this like team, like between CIA and NASA that knows a lot about angels?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, I don't know that, but I know the NRO is the ones that have the keys to this thing.

[Jesse]

Really? And why do you think that?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Because they have the keys to all the satellites and all the eyes on the sky. And they're the ones that every rocket, when it goes up, right, they observe every aspect of that rocket for reasons, for mechanical reasons and for a surprise visit that happens pretty much every time they launch one.

[Jesse]

Do you think that rockets attract UFOs?

[Chris Bledsoe]

That's what I'm saying. Every time they send one up, it attracts them and they'll come up and look at it if it has weapons on board.

[Jesse]

Does Tim Taylor know Elon Musk?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Do they work together?

[Chris Bledsoe]

For sure? Yeah.

[Jesse]

Did Tim ever tell you that?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, he mentioned his name, but he didn't say work for him. But he controls all the launches.

[Jesse]

Controls all the launches?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Tim does. He's a launch guy. He's the Dragon. His console is called Dragon Control.

[Jesse]

And he controls all of the launches out of Cape Canaveral.

[Chris Bledsoe]

He's the guy, he's the one. And I'll tell you what he does. When they fire a rocket up, right, they have these big ground based cameras like on a World War II battleship, where they sit on a gun and they could turn a handle and the gun would go around and you know, they could control this thing they're sitting on. Well, they have big binoculars on it like that. And they can get on this thing and follow this rocket up and they got it to about 50,000ft. Then it gets blurry. So at that point it's intercepted by a WB57 run out of Houston. A good friend of mine, which is National Reconnaissance Office, works with Taylor. So his Crew's up there at 50, 000ft and it intercepts the rocket. So they film it with seven cameras on that thing where it goes right on up. When it gets up to a hundred thousand feet, then it's intercepted by F104 starfighter equipped with another seven or eight cameras on there. And so it trails it right on up until it runs out of sight of. And then the satellites take it over. And the only ones that can look at the satellites are these NRO guys. Tim walks out of his control into a private room where all the screens are, so his eyes are on all that.

[Jesse]

Fascinating.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

How did he get into that line of work? Because if you read Launch Fever, I Don't think he's traditionally credentialed or trained.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, my friend from Houston told me he helped him get that position.

[Jesse]

And who's your friend from Houston?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I can't say.

[Jesse]

Okay.

[Chris Bledsoe]

He lives right down the road from here on a big. On a big ranch right out here.

[Jesse]

Well, I'd love to meet him. Yeah, we could figure it out.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I'll show you a picture of him later.

[Jesse]

Okay, cool. Wow. Fascinating. And because Tim also works at Aerospace Corporation, right?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And what do you think the link is between NASA and Aerospace Corporation?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I know a lot of Those guys are NRO.

[Jesse]

Okay, interesting.

[Chris Bledsoe]

They carry blackberries everywhere they go.

[Jesse]

Blackberries, not iPhones, androids.

[Chris Bledsoe]

They have all that. But they have blackberries. They do their business.

[Jesse]

Do you think he's a time traveler?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I think it's entirely possible. You know, honestly, I can tell you a story about him.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

It's in my book. I think it made it in. I wrote 140,000 words and we only published 85. And that was what they recommended for the right size of book. Right. So. But in one of the stories, I talk about Tim, right after we came back from Zanesville, Ohio, he came to my house and we had this famous tree on my yard that caught fire. This video out on the Internet. You can see Chris Bledsoe, burning tree. Well, we had his tree that just spontaneously combusted in the backyard. It rained for two days. Ground's wet, everything's wet. And my wife and I walk out the back door at 9 o' clock and this poof, it erupted into flames and was shooting 20, 15ft up through the tree. And she put it out three times with a hose pipe, kept reigniting itself. And so that got the attention of everybody. And Tim wanted to see this tree. So he's at my house, come, I picked him up at the airport. He goes to my daughter's homecoming game that night. She was a little homecoming princess in the 10th grade. Now she's a. Has a double master's from NYU. So that's been a long time ago, Right. We walk up to this tree and having just a good, you know, conversation. And all of a sudden the one side of the tree is open where it burnt from the inside. The tree caught fire in the inside and burned a hole through the side of the tree. And when we walked up to it, he walks up and puts his head right up to look up in the tree. And all of a sudden this snake comes out of the tree, this silver snake. And it was perfectly. I never seen Anything like it ever. It was silver as a silver automobile. Perfect color. He jumps back and he grasps for air. Oh my God. Just like that. He looks at me and he was short with words and he said. He said, you know, my grandmother is full blooded Choctaw Indian and I went to school on a minority grant. My grandma told me if I ever saw a silver snake, it was part of their history. Right. She said it would be a message from God. And he saw that and told me all about it. But I watched his reaction and it got the best of him. When that snake come out of that.

[Jesse]

Tree and you saw the snake.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I was standing beside him.

[Jesse]

What do you think the message could have been from God?

[Chris Bledsoe]

It was a message from him for him to understand this whole thing was from God somehow. Another.

[Jesse]

And how does. One of the most interesting things I wonder is if you read American Cosmic or talk to Diana Pasulka. It's almost like they visited the Vatican archives. He figured out a way in before she had gotten there. And then they were sort of celebrating him at the Vatican observatory. Like why would the Vatican observatory know who a random NASA mission controller is? It makes me think he is not a random NASA mission controller.

[Chris Bledsoe]

He's not a random guy at all. He's. Let's just say he runs with the biggest.

[Jesse]

How so? Do you think he has a connection with the president?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, absolutely. He briefed. He briefed Obama on me. That's where this come from.

[Jesse]

He briefed Obama on it.

[Chris Bledsoe]

It came from him with a dinner napkin from Camp Dave in Maryland.

[Jesse]

And you're sure?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Positive.

[Jesse]

And did he tell you that he briefed Obama?

[Chris Bledsoe]

No, he didn't tell me that. But I know that's what it means because of the.

[Jesse]

Yeah, the letterhead.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. And where it came from, Bob McGuire.

[Jesse]

Who is, I think former intel and a friend of yours came on the show and he said I.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That.

[Jesse]

That cannot be faked.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

That definitely came from Camp David.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. It's a napkin and an envelope with a napkin partially obscuring the address that's on the envelope. I knew the address because it was the address of Chris Splinzo. I knew the napkin because it was the presidential seal on a napkin from Camp David. There's only one way you can have that napkin because it's a crime to copy the presidential seal. There's only one person that can get you to Camp David. And the picture was mailed to him by Tim Taylor.

[Jesse]

By Tim Taylor.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And the only person that story can have been told to in that envelope Was Barack Obama.

[Jesse]

Oh, my God.

[Chris Bledsoe]

The letter to me is ironclad proof that Chris's story was taken all the.

[Narrator]

Way to Barack Obama via Tim Taylor.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yes.

[Jesse]

You might think he was trying to throw you off the trail if he said, I briefed the president and was bragging or whatever, but he didn't sort of sound it out independently.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right. I found it out. I didn't know what it meant, but I knew that it. He told me he just returned from Camp David and it was at Christmas when he.

[Jesse]

Oh, so he totally told you that.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And he said I was at the dinner table with the President and handed me that.

[Jesse]

He said.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Okay, so he did tell you that.

[Chris Bledsoe]

But he didn't tell me he briefed him, but he did give me the napkin and the. Whoa. And this. Yeah.

[Jesse]

And you believe him?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. Had no reason not to.

[Jesse]

Have you ever caught him in a lie?

[Chris Bledsoe]

No.

[Jesse]

Ever?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I wouldn't. Not that I can recall.

[Jesse]

Everything he said has either come out to be true or you're waiting for confirmation.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right, Right. Wow.

[Jesse]

Have you independently verified some of what he's told me?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, 100%.

[Jesse]

Is there an example of that?

[Chris Bledsoe]

No, it's just, you know, it'd be like. It's just so hard to pinpoint any one thing.

[Jesse]

Sure. Or like, I don't know, some of the things about how the NRO or NASA work together. Have you been able to verify?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse]

Do you think that the Big Dipper or Ursa Major has anything to do with the UFO phenomena? You've said that you've seen UFOs come from that constellation specifically.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I have. Yeah. But, you know, I've learned since then that doesn't matter. It's wherever I look. I can take you out at night and face one certain direction and only have a hole to look through that direction. And it'll come from there. We can turn in any direction and focus there, and that's where it'll come from.

[Jesse]

So do you think the Vatican and the President and whoever, Tim Taylor, the Hammer, do you think they're all coordinating in some way? This archangel, the Vatican, the President, or what do you think the connection is there?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I don't have a clue. I'm just telling you what I was told. Right.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

So. And I've been told a lot of things, but he told me about the movie the Adjustment Bureau and the story about the Hammer.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Have you ever watched the Netflix show Dark by any chance? No. Do you think that you. You mentioned Tim's grandmother being native American.

[Chris Bledsoe]

So is he a time traveler? I know where he came from. Right. As a young boy, which is. Well, he told me the story about his upbringing, his Native American grandma. And so I would. I'm just answering that question you asked earlier. Is he a time traveler? I don't know. I just know he told me and shared with me his childhood.

[Jesse]

Did he say anything else about Thomas Townsend Brown?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Not a lot other than we went there. We went to. In a conversation about his. His daughter and that he was actively. And I actually have the manuscript saved on my phone. He shared with me that he was working with her own.

[Jesse]

On. On this book.

[Chris Bledsoe]

On that book.

[Jesse]

Whatever happened to the book?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I don't know, but I know I have the manuscript that they were writing.

[Jesse]

Oh, I would love to read it.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Whether they were publishing it or ended up publishing it, I. I don't know if they did or not.

[Jesse]

What was it going to be about?

[Chris Bledsoe]

About their father, her father and his work and Tim's input confirming it all.

[Jesse]

And Tim definitely knew Townsend Brown?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, he knew his daughter. Caught her when I was there with him.

[Jesse]

This is crazy.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

This is so interesting.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

I wanna. Are you still in touch with Tim?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I haven't spoke to him. He sent word to me a couple years ago.

[Jesse]

I want to speak to him about Townsend Brown.

[Chris Bledsoe]

He's a ghost, Tim.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. His. His whole life. I admire him because his real life is in medical. Saving children. Cares more about the children and the struggles they have and diseases and cancers and finding cures for that.

[Jesse]

I'm sort of like. A part of me is, like, hesitant to even ask questions about him because I don't like honing in on any specific individual. But when there's a specific individual who seems like they're embedded at the deepest levels of power structures that go as high as he does, they're claiming things to you and Diana Pasulka that seem kind of otherworldly. You know, I just have to be fascinated and it. And both you and Diana have, you know, public, you know, followings.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

And so I'm like, okay, like, you have to know, like, some of this stuff's gonna get out and you're gonna instill curiosity.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

You know, and I, you know, I don't know if you know this, but I met him once for, like, 20 minutes.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Oh, you did?

[Jesse]

Like a FaceTime or whatever, Tim.

[Chris Bledsoe]

You did?

[Jesse]

Yeah, I met him.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Wow.

[Jesse]

It was so. So stupid in retrospect, because now I'd ask him so many other questions, but.

[Chris Bledsoe]

You were tongue tied at that Moment only.

[Jesse]

Tongue tied. I was. Because I was invested in this rocket company and they were struggling to get off the launch pad. And normally I separate the woo woo, UFO stuff entirely from, like, you know, that world. I don't. I, you know, try not to mix them at all.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

But I was kind of desperate and I was like, okay, I, I did read this book, American Cosmic, and I know that, like, you know, there's this guy and he claims to use consciousness to get the, you know, rockets off the pad. And so I'm like, if there's anything there, I know the guys I'm working with, you know, invested in, they're not thinking about consciousness as any sort of factor component. So that was the impetus for me to talk to him. And we talked about that for 20. The trippiest thing he said to me. And I don't remember exactly how he said it, but it was clear this was. The implication is he said, for you to succeed in your rocket company, like, you have to know what they want, you know, and like Diana said it, you know, called it the sponsors and that's, you know, but it's the, the beings or whatever.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Now you know why he has a private office and the only one with eyes on whatever comes up to that rocket.

[Jesse]

And he's the only one with eyes on that.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, he's the one at. He's at Cape Canaveral in that room.

[Jesse]

Where does the nickname the dragon come from?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I don't know, but he has a tattoo on his arm of the dragon. And when I was allowed to get on base, I had to get a tattoo right here. Just. It was part of the mission, really.

[Jesse]

And it was of a dragon.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Whoa. And then you have the, the dragon capsule, you know, at SpaceX. And I don't know if that's. Do you think that's a coincidence or.

[Chris Bledsoe]

No, it was all part of it.

[Jesse]

You think so?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

When you were at Cape Canaveral, he was showing you around. Did he show you anything interesting?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, a lot of stuff.

[Jesse]

Anything exciting or kind of beyond what you would expect just at a.

[Chris Bledsoe]

You know, I was like a kid right here. The, the most secure place on the planet. Cape Canaveral. The mission control, he told me it was more secure than the White House. Nothing is just that secure. And last time I talked about this, I got in trouble, right?

[Jesse]

Really?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, yeah. One particular thing I mentioned on Danny Jones podcast, you got in trouble for saying something. Well, yeah, well, it got. I don't want to sit here because it got. His. Got. Got the algorithm killed on that.

[Narrator]

You said that the views were like.

[Jesse]

You know, it was like doing 50k a day.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Oh, yes.

[Jesse]

And then it cuts off.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse]

You speak to some rep at Google and they're like, we don't know what the hell happened here.

[Narrator]

It doesn't make any sense.

[Jesse]

Given the click through rate, average view duration, which should basically define the video's performance.

[Narrator]

He goes, the one other time I've.

[Jesse]

Seen this is with Jesse's David Grush video.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Exactly.

[Jesse]

Performance fell off a cliff. Yep. So.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And he said that, he said that.

[Jesse]

My video with Bledsoe and your video.

[Chris Bledsoe]

With Grush, neither of them broke any YouTube rules or had any internal red flags that he was able to see.

[Jesse]

Yep.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And he goes, whenever this happens.

[Jesse]

Which has happened one other time recently with David Grush. Yep. It's basically the floor above me that.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I have no access to. Yep.

[Jesse]

Something above my head that I don't.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Know what the hell's going on. So what the hell is going on?

[Jesse]

Yeah, Danny Jones said that.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

The video got totally like cut off, throttled.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

And he was confused. And Danny, by the way, is not like a dogmatic UFO believer at all.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

It goes back and forth on the whole thing a lot. And he apparently called this rep at Google and Google said, you know, the only time this has ever happened and it's the floor above us and a video's totally gotten nuked, was Jesse Michael's David Grush interview.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. Right. So that happened with me and I put him in touch with my friend in Washington and the CIA. And I said, look, it just killed this. And he got to the bottom of it.

[Jesse]

He did.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And he figured out that there was actual possible obstruction with Google. And.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, it's, from what I heard was just something I mentioned, got the attention of the news. And the news called NASA and NASA's like, God, we don't want to talk about this.

[Jesse]

What? This is crazy. Well, because, I mean, Trump just designated NASA as a spy agency. Well, and it's already, it's, it's. You're already, you know, you're labeling a thing that's already been the case for, you know, decades.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

But this is just confirmation of that.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That's why this is what happened with that video with Dan. It's still got, what, 1 0.2 or.

[Jesse]

3 million a ton of views. Do you think that NASA has other propulsion modalities?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I think they've had it a long time.

[Jesse]

Really?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I know they were working on it a long time ago because I Was asked to. To work on which way electrons move.

[Jesse]

Really?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And what does that mean? And what, what is it working on?

[Chris Bledsoe]

It Back engineering machines.

[Jesse]

Reverse engineering UFO?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Really?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yep.

[Jesse]

Are the UFOs like alien reproduction vehicles that like hover and then go into space, or are they like high voltage chambers that are like portals like in the movie Contact where you end up in some other dimensional.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I think it's probably both of that exists. I don't know, but.

[Jesse]

And you think NASA is sitting on this stuff?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I don't know that NASA is necessarily, but there are satellite groups that keep it under wraps. It is so far buried. According to Tim, there were two generals at the Pentagon that knew everything and.

[Jesse]

Which general?

[Chris Bledsoe]

2. He didn't tell me. Interesting. Air Force generals.

[Jesse]

Air Force generals.

[Chris Bledsoe]

See, when you go to NASA, the mission control, when you walk in there, it's a square building with a long hallway in the very middle. And when you walk down this hallway, it's glass. Glass on both sides. Right. And you look to the right, here's all NASA scientists and launching, you know, at their consoles. And you look to the left, it's exactly the same, but it's all Air Force people. So they have dual redundancy Air Force over here and civilian on this side, running every launch. And Tim's in the middle of all of it. And then once that rocket goes up, he disappears into this one little room that has eyes on it the whole time.

[Jesse]

What was the most interesting thing you saw with your own eyes?

[Chris Bledsoe]

That Cape Canaveral, probably. Well, I learned some interesting things that I won't share. Not only here, but I guess going into crew quarters was the greatest thing for me. Because when we got there, this building had been built like in the late 50s when they first started Mercury and launching to the moon. Right. And only according To Tim, only 300 people had ever been in that building in all those years. Only 300. And he said only one president, no congressman, anyone. And he said, you know, don't go around sharing this because here I am sharing it because they might get upset. Why they're not allowed in this place. Those 300 people would include the staff that run the place. The den mother that's been there. I met her, she'd been there 35 years. And she has a small group of people, the doctor that's owned by, that lives there with the mom, the dad and the children. So those 300 people would be John Glenn and Armstrong and their family. Right. So their kids and the wives and all. So very small group of People had been in there and I got to tour the whole place and sit where the astronauts sit and have a. Sit in the boardroom and go in the doctor's offices and sit where they put their. Their spacesuits on. I got to look through all that and handle it and it's amazing. But I was told that when you leave from here you'll never be the same. He said that every time that thing went up when it came back down something came with them and it was still there.

[Jesse]

What came with them?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well whatever the spirit is phenomena. Something intelligent.

[Jesse]

Whoa.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Is there? Yep.

[Jesse]

So like almost like a hitchhiker tag along, same thing or something. They would go up and then they'd come back down. But be they'd be hitched with some sort of spiritual thing.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Whoa.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah he told me that. And that's why they don't let everybody in there.

[Jesse]

And do you do so is your take. Because to me there's something weird about the moon landing. I don't think it's necessarily fake, not like full hoax or something but there's something that feels very managed about our perception on it. What do you think actually happened?

[Chris Bledsoe]

That's a big one. Because I've learned some things since about that I've seen some photos of the moon and some things I can't dare say. But what I saw makes me wonder. Is it. Is it real? Is it an illusion? Was it put there? Tim insinuated that it was. It wasn't there by accident, that it was set there. That's all he would say. They're very sly with the words but.

[Jesse]

I think that's the case too. It's tidal locked so you never see the dark side. It's 1/400 the size of the sun but 400 times closer to the Earth from the sun in this sort of. Yeah, perfect way. And the conventional story of how it was made makes no sense to me. The idea that there was some sort of proto Earth and this Mars like object hit Earth or whatever like this massive object hitter part of the Earth's mantle came out and formed this perfect cylindrical moon. Prima facie. You don't need to be an expert in this stuff to know that that's probably not the case. Right. And then parts of it seem hollow. There seem to be caverns in it. They put seismometers on the moon if you believe the face value story of Apollo 11, even conventional, nobody can argue with this. They put a. You know, seismometers on the moon and it rang like a bell Right. So, and then I think Gordon McDonald, who's Eisenhower's space advisor, said the moon would only make sense if it were hollow or something like that. It's just a strange. It's a strange object.

[Chris Bledsoe]

It is strange and it affects our thoughts.

[Jesse]

You think it affects our thoughts?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Absolutely. It does.

[Jesse]

Well, you have this sort of, you know, Jekyll Hyde like lunacy.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right, lunacy. Lunatic. That's where it came from.

[Jesse]

That's right.

[Chris Bledsoe]

If you go to the sheriff's department, jails fill up for moon.

[Jesse]

Yeah, fair enough. Yeah. And I mean, you do have obviously women's cycles affected by the moon. The idea that it doesn't affect. I don't want to go full astrology necessarily, but the idea that it doesn't affect ecological processes or biological processes, that's wrong. So then what is the extent of that effect? I don't know.

[Chris Bledsoe]

But something I saw tends to make me think that. It's an illusion or it's something I just can't say without getting.

[Jesse]

What do you think it is? Something about our souls?

[Chris Bledsoe]

What about the backside of it?

[Jesse]

What do you think? Do you think there's some aliens there or beings?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I think there's something illuminated back there.

[Jesse]

What do you think is illuminated back there?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I don't know.

[Jesse]

Is it like the John Lear, like soul catcher?

[Chris Bledsoe]

No, I don't believe in all that, man.

[Jesse]

So what do you think's illuminated on.

[Chris Bledsoe]

The backside of the mood? I don't know, but I have to leave that.

[Jesse]

If you were to give a high level riddle or hint.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I don't know, I just think that the back side is nothing like the front side. If you find photos of it, if they're real, it doesn't look anything like the front side. And from what I've seen, there is something behind it, hidden back there.

[Jesse]

And. And Tim seemed to think that it wasn't there by accident. Just the movie.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Exactly what he told me. It wasn't by accident. Was it towed into place? That was one of the things he.

[Jesse]

Was it towed into place?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, that was one of the conversations I heard. Wow.

[Jesse]

Do you think. Do you get the vibe that he has some metaphysical worldview that is more concrete? Because the average person, you talk to them about metaphysics and if they speak in a self assured way, they're probably full of shit.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

And they're either full of shit or they're really epistemically humble and they're like, I don't know, I take these things metaphorically and you know, so it's like one or the other. And then occasionally. Occasionally, especially if you're a seeker like, you know, you are. I am. You meet somebody and it's like you have kind of a more concrete understanding of what's going on out there.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

Do you feel like he's one of.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Those 100 that way you feel like that? Yeah.

[Jesse]

And you don't think he was sort of conning you in any way or.

[Chris Bledsoe]

No? Well, I thought that some of the things he said flew in the face of what I believe then. But now, years later, you know, our thoughts change on this thing. And so some of the things he was telling me makes more sense today.

[Jesse]

Do you think there's a Native American connection? A lot of people, you know, I've interviewed Mario woods on my show who, you know, is of Native American descent, and people say that, you know, if you have. Yeah, that, that, that ancestry, you might be able to get in touch with this stuff a little more easily. Other people say that about RH negative blood. Do you think either of those things are true?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I think there's a possibility with the blood. I'm. I'm not sure about that, but I do know that I was. A book showed up to my house that was sent from some folks in the government, CIA and said, read this. And it was the Ms. And I. I can't remember the whole title, but it was the Ancient Myths and Lore of the Cherokee. And it was written by James Mooney in 1891. That's when it was published in 1891 by James Mooney. And the book talks about the Cherokee little people. It talks about the Thunder Boys, it talks about a missing time. It talks about all sorts of stuff in this book. And that when they gave me that, they were particularly interested if I had a Native American blood in my DNA. And so I went and had all that done through Ancestry. And 23andMe come to find out I'm 99% Irish, British, Scottish, you know, so no Native American there.

[Jesse]

Have you ever seen a UFO in a hangar?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Nope.

[Jesse]

You just seen it in the.

[Chris Bledsoe]

In space or on the ground?

[Jesse]

Do you think that the kind of, you know, security establishment in the US has UFOs in. In its possession? They're reverse engineering now?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, they're big liars if they don't because they've been saying it for years.

[Jesse]

They have beating that drum right now. They are big liars.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Same, same, same story for 50, 70 years now. We have this. We saw that, my friend. Saw it. I saw a letter. Here's another letter. I saw I saw, I saw. That's all you hear, but you never see.

[Jesse]

Yeah, that's what's so strange.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Never.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Differs in me. I'm sharing it. You know, I tell you those orbs there, and then we go out and we see them. But I'm not labeling it.

[Jesse]

And do you feel like. Because I think on Tron Ryan's show, Diana Pasulka spoke about your experience almost as if you had been like, messed with or something. Do you feel like you've been messed with or manipulated in any way, or.

[Chris Bledsoe]

No, I think the phenomena has a way of doing things to trick you. You know, you hear jocks fillet write about the trickster. Well, that's not a bad thing. I think it's like the Adjustment Bureau. Same thing. If, if. Jesse, if you. If you want to go this direction, it might. It might trick you to make you go in the opposite direction. So it's kind of controlling your path. So that would be. Yeah, I don't view of that.

[Jesse]

But you don't feel like the intel world has tried to shade your perception of things in any way?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I think they have.

[Jesse]

Okay.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, they have. From the beginning, they. They tried to make me believe in fine saucers and little green man.

[Jesse]

Really?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. And I kept telling them, no, it wasn't like that. Interesting. It wasn't like that, but that.

[Jesse]

So who. Who was trying to kind of implant those ideas?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Hundreds of people within the government. I've met hundreds.

[Jesse]

Really?

[Chris Bledsoe]

And they all go back to that. You know, it's, you know, here. You know, I got labeled a religious fanatic because I said it was spiritual. I've been saying it was spiritual for 19 years.

[Jesse]

And so they were really adamant about, hey, like, let's spin this towards this, you know, kind of alien extraterrestrial thing.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, constantly. Alien, alien, alien. What you're seeing is negative, bad.

[Jesse]

Really?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

That's pretty crazy.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

That's not cool.

[Chris Bledsoe]

No, it's not cool.

[Jesse]

How do you explain that? What's happening there, where you have these spooky people coming into your life telling you that what you saw is alien when you know it wasn't. And then you have somebody like Jim Semivan, who's very high up at the CIA, who seems to, I assume, knows a lot about a whole lot of national security things outside of the UFO issue. But the UFO issue he's gone very deep on for decades.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

And he's being kind of an honest actor and telling you, you know, you experience what you experienced. Do you think he was, you know, Honest with you?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. Jim.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. You know, I have a deep care for Jim and he does my family as well. And we've shared a lot of stuff. I know about his story and Debbie's his wife and so you think they're factions.

[Jesse]

Like how do you make sense of the fact that you have one half of intel world spinning, you're attempting to spin your story and like kind of manipulate you and then you have another half that just seems kind of like good hearted?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, it's kind of, it's kind of like this. There's a group of lower level guys that have a mission to do disinformation, push a certain narrative. But you know, the people I'm meeting are heads of their departments, not necessarily this low level guy. I'm talking the head of the director of operations. Like Jim was at the CIA. He was James Bond, that's who he was.

[Jesse]

Or Director of Operations.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Whoa.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Jim was. Yeah.

[Jesse]

What is that, like ranking of the.

[Chris Bledsoe]

He ran the whole northern hemisphere.

[Jesse]

Whoa.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Everybody answered to him. Yeah, that's who he is. Very powerful guy. And his friends. I've met a lot of, from, you know, the deputy director and, and when you talk to these guys in private, they pick your brain and you start learning more that they're learning. They want to know.

[Jesse]

That's, that's what I've come to the conclusion. You know, everybody's like, oh, it's a psyop and they're trying to, you know, manipulate. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And I've not been probably in as many of these rooms as you have, but I've been in some of them, I'm sure. And I'm like, they're like, we're fans and they're like trying to piece stuff together through. I used to be so afraid. I would do certain interviews, I'd break certain stories and I'd be like, oh, I got too close to the truth, they're going to come after me. And then now I'm like, oh, they're probably learning alongside me and like using, you know, the stuff I'm learning and through open source research, like for their own shit or whatever.

[Chris Bledsoe]

But for the most part they're, they're, they truly are people like us and they want to know. But there's a program of guys that's involved in the UFO world keeping that going. But the.

[Jesse]

Do you think, is there some. Because you met, you opened the book talking about John Alexander, right. John Alexander also seems to show when people experience paranormal things like the Hutchinson effect, you know, John Hutchinson, California. Sort of, you know, metallic equipment seems to hover and like, you know, malfunction around him. It seems to have like all these electromagnetic anomalies emitting from his body. You, you know, other cases, John Alexander will kind of consistently show up. I think he's briefed on things like I think he knew about Rendlesham before anybody else.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, he did 100%. John is.

[Jesse]

What's his deal?

[Chris Bledsoe]

John has been. Let's just say he's probably the number one researcher in the paranormal world for the U. S. Government. Has been for many, many years. Yeah. His wife is works studying religion as a part of this. And he's been in 90, 92 countries doing research into everything from churches to ceremonies in Mongolia. The reindeer herders, you know, the reindeer monks. He. They rode horses a hundred miles.

[Jesse]

And do you think he has a pure agenda or do you think that.

[Chris Bledsoe]

He has an agenda to find the truth and.

[Jesse]

But he does. Often he'll see these things and then he'll kind of semi debunk them. And I don't think he did in your case, but I think in other like, you know, the Hutchinson thing, he'll show up and he'll be like, well, it kind of works at sometimes but it's, you know, like if you read his writing, it's often like it's not as magical as you think sort of thing like you kind of like, you know.

[Chris Bledsoe]

But John's more in line of. He don't look at the physical thing as being the. The truth of it or the alien thing as being the truth of it. He doesn't see it that way. He's more about. It's more. That's too easy. Is far more complex than that. This thing does, for example, in the 1800s, 1700s. Go back and read all the reports on UFOs people were seeing. I read a story of a sailing ship with glowing sails flying over London and an anchor comes out and snags a chimney and breaks the top off of a chimney.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

A boat. A flying boat. Right. So here's these flying ship, sky ships they called them for many, many years. In fact, the first report that I've heard of in America was Aurora, Texas. It was a skyship that crashed into the wind tower. Right.

[Jesse]

1897.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And they buried an alien there. You know where they buried him?

[Jesse]

Where?

[Chris Bledsoe]

In my family. Right beside my family cemetery.

[Jesse]

Really?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

That's weird. Yeah, that is really true.

[Chris Bledsoe]

The Masonic cemetery.

[Jesse]

What?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

So do you have other trippy things like that in your family history?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, quite a bit of stuff. Tim was the one that started that research with me way back. Diana. Yeah.

[Jesse]

So Tim is sort of an heir in some ways to John Alexander, where he's also doing a lot of this sort of paranormal research. But what's so interesting to me is he has a functional job at NASA too.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, well, that's part of his job.

[Jesse]

Wow. Do you think that space, like our space travel program is somehow related to studying these paranormal things?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

How do you know?

[Chris Bledsoe]

You heard them talk about when you were speaking about creating, investing in a rocket company. It's up to them, right?

[Jesse]

I don't know. You know, I, I know the history of rocketry, you know, and I know Jack Parsons thought he was in touch with, you know, other beings and literally saw like what you could describe as a Nordic alien woman, you know, while he was testing rockets, you know, in California, in the Mojave Desert. I know that Tsiolovsky, the Russian equivalent, thought he was in touch with angelic beings. Herman Oboeth, the father of the German rocket program, all of them thought that.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Thought they were angels. Yeah.

[Jesse]

But then I also know Elon Musk kind of dismisses the whole alien thing.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And, well, how Palmeyr told me. And before I tell you that, we'll get back to the flying ships. Right. In 1947, Kenneth Arnold sees these little chevrons flying about and they were kind of moving freely and you know, half a dozen of them. And the reporter says, well, how did they move, Kenneth? And he said, well, if you took a saucer out of the cupboard and you threw it and it skipped on the water, he said, that's the way they look. Well, the reporter said, oh, ah. Kenneth Arnold sees flying saucers. Right. So it goes out on the news AP wire now, billion plus people has it implanted in their brain and for the next 50 years, what do they see?

[Jesse]

Saucers.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Flying saucers. Where'd they go? Yeah, where are they? Right. Then comes a triangle. In the 80s or 90s, all of a sudden everybody's seeing triangles.

[Jesse]

Yes.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Then I come along in those seven, these big balls of fire come Mufan's like, well, what were they? I said, I don't know, they wouldn't. Flying saucers, they were, they were light, they were like orbs. And so that kind of hung it. And from 2000 last 19 years, it's been orbs.

[Jesse]

So our perception of something celestial and in some almost like other world, platonic realm that we can't understand or comprehend is being sort of shaded by basically media, by like our, the memes that we have in our head.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

That's fascinating. And to anybody, this is such a cool conversation to have with you because I think some people throw around the term like psyop with you and stuff. And I'm like, the fact that you're saying all this stuff is like so the opposite of somebody who's dogmatically proposing the kind of extraterrestrial hypothesis. It's like you're basically saying like, we're in some limited, you know, epistemological realm or whatever, and we're seeing something that's unexplained. And that's a humble claim. I don't think that's. Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And I'm not here to label it because I. I would be lying if I told you I knew.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

All I can tell you is 19 years of patterns. I can tell you that I get a lot of people to call me that, want to tell me their story. I've covered my book empowers these people. And I get this little lady calls me Night. It's just for an example. And she's like. She said, I saw this ball of light go by my kitchen window can. And I hear she said this, she said, She's 87. She said, I hear tell you're the person that would know about these things. I said, well, yeah, try to help you, you know, so tell me what happened. She said, I was washing dishes and it came up to the window and it scared me and it went away. I said, well, what was going on with you right then? She said, I was washing dishes. I said, no, what was your life like? And soon as she said it, I knew. It's the same story for 19 years over and over and over and over a thousand times is my husband died the week before. And it's always the same. People start seeing this stuff. I had a near death death, my daughter died, my mom died, my son died, or something horrible. I think it's always that way.

[Jesse]

It's almost like, I think about them showing up at nuclear sites, which they seem to show up at. And if there was some Archimedes lever point, point of most leverage to shift timelines on a global scale, it would be there and then in somebody's life, maybe you'd show up at peak highs and peak lows and sort of the peaks and the valleys or something. And I wonder if that's the case. I wonder if is that anecdotally your case? I mean, do you think people even in kind of peak states also see Them. Because that's been my anecdotal understanding.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, I think it's possible. Right. But I do know that the majority of the people witnessing this now is different because is coming, it's revealing itself, and there's no stopping that. It's going to reveal itself completely. And what it's doing is cracking people's consciousness just a little bit. Makes you think, you know, it may not convert that person, but it. They're like, oh, my God, there is something out there. So it's expanding our consciousness.

[Jesse]

Do you think other people think that you are the Messiah?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I've been asked to, yeah. But I don't see that. I'm just a poor guy that had. Has had a hard time. Yeah. And it's not been easy. It's been a burden more than anything. And I'm just a messenger. I know that I can share this with people. And after I do, then it's yours. You can. You can connect with it from then. So it's not like something that I have is something that everybody has a right to.

[Jesse]

Do. You feel like you. You have an understanding of metaphysics that's deeper than the average person's. Like, is it. Is there some sort of thing that you can relay about how the world works?

[Chris Bledsoe]

No, I'm still trying to pick of that. But in a nut in a shell, I know that we're not in control, that our thoughts are completely understood by something above us. That knows everything about you. It knows your heart, it knows your intentions, and it will guide you or it will tear you down if you're going the wrong way. That's the trickster part of it. But is that bad? You know, it's intended for you to marry this person, not that one. It might do what it takes to get you to meet this person.

[Jesse]

So. Fascinating. Yeah. And it's your job to be receptive and to kind of ride the. Ride the wave or listen to the synchronicities.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, that's what I do. I listen to the synchronicities. But my job is to share a truth that everyone's been told is not real. And I caught so much problem from the community in 2007 when this happened, half my family, two thirds of my family, I quit speaking to my own cousins and family. And it was because they wouldn't believe me or I was being accused of messing with the devil.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And so they actively got hard on me and tried to remove my children from me. That was early on, right after it happened. And so I kind of took offense to everyone. And I made a vow then, I'm going to prove them all wrong. I'm going to prove the world wrong. That's what I said, made that that. And I've worked on it pretty hard for 19 years of revealing something that nobody says is real. And what that is, I can't tell you with 100 certainty, but I can tell you in 19 years of patterns and never no harm to me or anyone else that has experienced this. And I've shared it with thousands of people.

[Jesse]

Do you think the idea of disclosure is kind of a misnomer? It's the idea that the government can disclose some sort of like metaphysical truth that they have this asymmetric understanding of?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, I think we're in post disclosure. Disclosure is not an announcement. They're never going to give you the secrets. You know, if they have a machine, you're not going to see it. And I wouldn't want them to because somebody else could get a hold of and it could be terrible. Right. So it's national security. They're never going to give you that. So they're just going to give a talk all the time. We have, we've seen, we have. Disclosure is a one person at the time awakening. Suddenly you see it's real. You saw an orb. Oh my God, what was it? I don't know what it was, but it wasn't an airplane. And it stopped and it came up to me and it flashed me and it went away. Well, that absolutely changes everybody's world paradigm. It is just completely changes and sets you on a different course. So awakening or disclosure is for those. There's a lot of people that's already that knows. And so I don't think the government's going to ever announce anything. They're just going to keep telling you we have this or we saw that and make people get curious and start investigating.

[Jesse]

What do you think people's relationship should be to your story? Because on the one hand you were cured of Crohn's disease and I know you've had some other physical challenges since then, but that's a really major thing. That kind of. You were alleviated by and presumably linked to this kind of, you know, amazing event in January of 2007. Do you think people can experience spontaneous healings and should they go for that or should they go for the like incremental kind of more deliberate thing? Like is that it feels like catching, catching lightning in a bottle, you know, like how, how can that, how can that happen in a repeatable way unless Jesus is real or something and can heal us.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, I said earlier, maybe we have our own power to heal ourselves. We just don't know it.

[Jesse]

And do you feel like you healed yourself in that instance or. They healed.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I think they healed me. And I think that they will heal or they can. They can heal you. I've seen it too many times. I've seen it happen in Australia over the phone, long distance. That's it. And magic happens at that point. And I don't claim that as me doing it. I'm just the mediator. God. I just present her picture to the heaven. You know, it's all thought and intention. Our thoughts are very powerful. And our intentions.

[Jesse]

I know they are. Yeah, they really are. And everything was once a thought. And I think thoughts have a much greater effect on reality than just thought. Converts to action which produces this mechanical sort of pinball machine which ends up doing a thing. There's clearly something else going on that I think will be proven out by science.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I think you're right there.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Do you think that there's a space program involving consciousness that's deeper than. Because you think about. There's this 17th century Swedish mystic, Emanuel Swedenborg, and he described going up into the cosmos and seeing all these stars and planets and you've had out of body experiences and you've been to the Monroe Institute. If I was forming some sleeper cell space program that might be able to traverse farther than just NASA nuts and bolts craft. If you believe remote viewing is a real modality, you have to believe some sort of astral space travel is also real.

[Chris Bledsoe]

It is real.

[Jesse]

So do you think there's some sort of vital program in the government that involves consciousness based space travel?

[Chris Bledsoe]

I think they've attempted that and still are trying to.

[Jesse]

They have to have.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

And you even watch Carl Sagan's Contact and it's like that's kind of what you're touching on.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jesse]

You know, or you, you know, Christopher Nolan, who you read, you watch Interstellar and then you read the Physics of Interstellar by Kip Thorne. And it's like if anybody was kind of dripped some interesting info.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

It probably would have been, you know, Nolan.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

And it's just so fast. It's like this fifth dimensional space that, you know, where you can, where you can travel kind of maybe between timelines and then when you die, you're able to, you know, traverse that. And it's sort of hard to talk about a lot of these things, but.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That'S a big one, you know, I believe when we die that based on the photo evidence I have, you may have some of that that I shared with Anna that.

[Jesse]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We. Yeah. In fact, it's going to come out on our pod where she shows some really interesting photos.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, you see photos with people in them or children or animals. Where'd I get that? How'd I get those? And this was right after the lady came. And at that time I didn't have a video camera. I had a cell phone, the flip phone. Right. But I went out and bought a little pocket camera, a little Instamatic, and I started taking just every night. I wasn't able to get anything before, but from that point forward I did. And it's like my dog died. I wrote about this in the book. I was with Tim at Cape Canaveral for a week and some guys from the NRO and we were meeting and at a launch and had been there all week and it was Saturday. Launch finally went off. Saturday, delayed all week. My wife knew I was coming home at Sunday morning or Sunday night. I was going to leave after the launch, Saturday night, get up Sunday morning, drive home. So at 4 o' clock it was over. I said, tim, I'm going to Fayetteville. So I got my car and I took off. Didn't tell anybody. Drove all night long, all night. Pulled over the rest area. It's 13 hours right from my house there. Pulled over and took a nap. 8:30 Sunday morning, I drove in the yard. When I drove in the yard, I knew immediately that my Labrador was dead. I knew it. I knew it. I can't tell you how I knew it, but I knew. It just came right into my mind. I saw it all. I felt it. My kids and family had buried her in the backyard three days before. Never told me because they didn't want me upset, right? It was like my child, this 90 pound Labrador female named Nelly. I opened the front door and walked in. My wife's asleep at the front door on the. In the living room, on the couch. House full of kids. They'd been up all weekend. They had invited all their friends and mom kind of would stay near the front where all the bedrooms were. Our little girl, she was the only girl, right? So Mom's doing. She's doing her patrol. Keep any boys away from her. That's what moms do. So I walk in the door and I open it. She looks up at me. I said, what happened to my dog? And her eyes got big and she said, oh my God, how did you know, I said, well, I felt her. She said, well, she ran out in the road and got run over by a car, and we buried her in the backyard. So I took and I thought about it all day. And that night I thought, she don't know she's dead. That's how I knew it. Because when I turned off the road, right where she was killed, it just kind of felt her, saw her in my thoughts. So I took a little white candle, I went out to her grave, and I lit it. And I told her, I said, I'll be with you again. Just go to the light. And she comes up out of her grave in a little ball of light. And I took that picture. That's how I got that.

[Jesse]

Wow. That's amazing.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. And you should have a copy of it.

[Jesse]

I would love to see that. Yeah, we could put that up.

[Chris Bledsoe]

So what does that tell you? You know, what does that tell you? And I've got people, lots of people. And children, in fact, I have a child. My wife and I lost a child. We have four, but we lost a child. And I was out thinking about him, and this lonely orb, here comes.

[Jesse]

And.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I took a picture of it, and there was a child. Yeah. In the orb, in the orb. And this is my screenshot. Wow. I'll show you.

[Jesse]

Oh, my God. That's a real photo.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That's a photo of a child. And always a ball of water.

[Jesse]

That's a real photo.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

That is amazing.

[Chris Bledsoe]

So what does that tell you? I believe that when I think that we're in a simulation or we're in this avatar, that we experience time because of our body, but beyond the body, there is no time. And I think when we die, that we go back to that eternal place, which is in church. They tell you it's somewhere way far away, but I think it's just around us. Yeah.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Well, there's. Time is created by the mind and the body, and time is the most used noun in the English language, but nobody knows how to define it without respect to the movement of bodies or things. It's always something defined relative to something else. So if. If. If you're doing that over and over again, then it has to be this soup that you're swimming in where you can't get out of it.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Exactly.

[Jesse]

You're like in. In water, and you don't. You know, it's like this. This David Foster Wallace speech where he goes, this is water, you know? And it's like you're. You're a fish in water. You have no Idea what you're in. We're in this stream of time. There's no way out of it. There's no way to talk about it.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And really, you know, there's no words for it.

[Jesse]

There's no words for it. That photo is amazing.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Can we show this to like a NASA photo instrumentation person?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, I don't care. A lot of them have already seen it.

[Jesse]

Okay.

[Chris Bledsoe]

I tell you, I was just tell you how it is with NASA. I was in a Capitol Hill club when the hearing, the recent hearing that happened.

[Jesse]

Right.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And in fact, it was Anna Brady and a bunch of those friends of hers and without using names, and we were having hors d' oeuvres with there, Burleson and Anna Luna, right? And afterwards we went out and did a sky watch on the. The Library of Congress, right. We were up on the platform and suddenly this orb appears. And for 45 minutes, it did figure eights over the Capitol in the White House.

[Jesse]

So. And Burleson saw it?

[Chris Bledsoe]

No, Burleson wasn't there. He had gone on. But Anna was there. Was there and a whole group of other people. Eric Zidak from PG&A Power. Donna Roberts from the International Space Station. She was standing next to me. Others, I can't say their name, but they've come out publicly. This group. Excuse me, Tracy McGill, she's an analyst for the DOD, I think. Whoa.

[Jesse]

Fascinating.

[Chris Bledsoe]

So they all got to experience it while we were having dinner. You're talking about NASA people. This guy walks up and he's. He gives me a big hug. He said, chris, I'm a huge fan. And he introduced me to his son. We'd never met, right. But he was one of the highest ranking guys at NASA. He walks up and hugs me and says, I'm a huge fan of yours. NASA? Yeah.

[Jesse]

So why is NASA publicly?

[Chris Bledsoe]

It's their policy. They're gaslighting the people there. The people there are just like me and you.

[Jesse]

It's so funny because it's like you see them publicly and it's like they're doing this thing on Three Eye Atlas. And it's like the photo is. The resolution of. It's like you're looking at a lamp post, you know, on. On a. It's like a street light or something. It's horrible. And the amateur astronomers are getting better stuff.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Exactly.

[Jesse]

And then privately they're going to you saying, we're. Were. Were big fans. Yeah. So interesting.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Isn't that crazy?

[Jesse]

It is crazy. It's a little frustrating. It's like, can you close. Can you split the. Close the gap a little bit between your public and your private, you know, perception?

[Chris Bledsoe]

One thing Hal told me how pop and mar. We were. We loved him. My children loved how. Because he became, you know, my dad died in 2013, and he. Hal came in 2008.

[Jesse]

And you just showed up at your door, right?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. Knocked on the door in 2000. So he'd come three or four times a year and stay a week at the time. And his biggest thing was my children. He would. They would bring school friends over and he'd have a big, you know, he loved kids. So he'd pull up mastodon teeth and tektites, and it was just a big party of science, and he loved that. But Hal told me he died in 2019. He died in 2019. He was coming to our house for Thanksgiving, he and Katie, and he fell and hit his head and went in a coma and never woke up. Right. But he told me right before he died, he said, chris, I want to tell you one thing, he said, I've wondered for many years, he said, what this phenomenon is. Oh, I know all about it, he said, you know, I've seen it all, he said, but we've always been on the fence of what it is we're dealing with. But he said, when. I know now, to me, he believed it was angelic. They were always on the fence of what it is. But he observed it with me a lot and saw its nature and how it would react to certain words and certain prayer.

[Jesse]

And was he religious?

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well, he wasn't religious at all, but he was. Toward the end of his life, he became. Yeah, very open in prayer and stuff.

[Jesse]

That'll make you religious.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah.

[Jesse]

Tim Taylor had a conversion, Right. At the Vatican, where he converted to Catholicism.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Exactly.

[Jesse]

It's fascinating.

[Chris Bledsoe]

So that's where the stink takes you. It takes you down that path. If you interact with it, it will.

[Jesse]

There's an apocryphal quote that's often attributed to Warner Heisenberg, and he's this amazing physicist, but he was also in charge of the German nuclear program under the Nazis, but also a much deeper philosophical guy, and he regretted his kind of role in that stuff. And he says the first sip of the bottle, you know, of science makes you an atheist, but when you get to the bottom, you find God at the bottom.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That's where Hal was at the end.

[Jesse]

Yeah, that's what it sounds like.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah, exactly what it was.

[Jesse]

Yeah. That photo you showed me with the child in the orb, that looks exactly like in 2001 Space Odyssey. @ the end of the movie where Bowman, he's, you know, going up on the ship, and then he. He ends up. I don't know what happens, but there's this. It's this weird, bizarre, surreal scene. And you see the. The monolith. And then all of a sudden, it cuts to this baby hovering over the Earth in this, like, orb capsule.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Thing. Crazy.

[Jesse]

Right? And I watched that. I remember watching that. It's one of those things where I'm like, I am too unenlightened and dumb to know what this means, but I know it means something. And that's what a lot of the UFO topic is. It's like the sound of the one hand clapping the Zen Cohen. You're like. And it just makes you want to go further. And you're like. You see something. You're like. You don't quite know what it means, but you're like that. There's something about that. There's saying this. It's this. And if anybody knew kind of, you know, some deeper truths about reality, like, I do think Arthur C. Clarke, Stanley Kubrick, guys like that were tapped into something deeper. And so that photo tripped me out because I'm like, what did. What did they know? And, you know, is that photo, you know, somehow lining up with what they.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Knew? I think they probably knew a lot more than they had to, and the government knows a lot more. But this. Everybody that's. Anybody in the ranks wants to see this stuff. They want to know about.

[Jesse]

It. And, yeah, I believe it. Who.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Wouldn'T?

[Jesse]

Yeah. Does the stuff, you know about the dark side of the moon point towards sort of a simulated world? Yeah, it does. Yeah. Well, then you get into these things around, like, why. Why can't we have disclosure? You can't say that official. If you're in some, like, official government position, you can't. You cannot say, like, I would. I want as much disclosure as humanly possible. But, like, if you're Trump, that might be tough. That might be a tough one. You go up there on the podium, you go, we're in a simulated.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Universe. Yeah.

[Jesse]

Right. Everything is. You're in a karmic whirlpool where you get stuck. You experience the same thing over and over again, but with a different veneer. Time is actually an illusion. And that veneer is just the changing of memes that are implanted in your head by some alien thing. Like, if you started to go deeper into.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That.

[Jesse]

Exactly. Where does that lead? Lead. Where does that lead? That leads to a very you know, and I, I think we might be headed there anyways. I don't think we need authority figures necessarily to say these.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Things. I think we're going to, I think what's going to happen is that basically the way I see this is consciousness is just one big unified field. Right. It's all one. And everything that exists is in that one. From the ghosts to the aliens or to the angels and to us. And I think we're in the process of rolling, humanity's rolling into that next dimension. In other words, it'll be a world of are we all in it? Where we see it more and it's part of our reality is.

[Jesse]

Shifting. And when it's so fascinating, it's so interesting, it's so fun to talk to you because I think a lot of people have said, oh like, it's like you're too open minded or something. Is the, you know, the, the critique or something. And I have a lot of critiques hurled at me, so don't take that personally. But I, I think so. I think if you believe in the parapsychology stuff, which I do, that there's some sort of mind matter.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Connection.

[Jesse]

Absolutely. Then I think there's a correlation between openness and your effect on the material world or like your, what you perceive as.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Well.

[Jesse]

Right. And so I think inherently there will be at times errors made due to that openness because you're sifting in this area that is so.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Uncharted.

[Jesse]

Exactly. But you're also gonna like, you know, come upon like really core deep truths and I don't know if you can have one without the other. And so. You know what I mean? Yeah, 100% like, like, you know, I'm sure I've explored all sorts of like crazy stuff, but, but in reality I think it, you know, my, I think my worldview is actually sometimes crazier than I can even communicate via the.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Show.

[Jesse]

Yeah. And it's really about catching people up, you know, epistemically and like taking people through this like rigorous, like let's start with the foundation. Like that photo is real, it's been verified, you know, like, but you need to do that because we're in this materialist, reductionist scientific paradigm and you'll make a lot of errors along the way. But yeah, it's this really kind of hard thing because you make one error and you get these kind of debunker skeptic types and they'll just hang on that one error for the whole and they're seeing what they want to see the.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Thing. People give these debunkers and skeptics too much.

[Jesse]

Power.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. Oh, boy. I don't even pay them.

[Jesse]

Attention.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. To me, they're just.

[Jesse]

Uninformed. Well, I think the thing that deflates them, too, is, like, I'll admit, like, I've gotten a whole. A ton of stuff wrong. Like. And I hope. I hope you would.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Admit. Yeah, I have. I changed, you know, we.

[Jesse]

Learned. Yeah, that's.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Right.

[Jesse]

Right. Yeah. Yeah. And as long as you can adapt with Right. New information that comes in, you know, then. And this is all. It's. It's. It's really new.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Territory. So there's. There's no book. There's no. There's no vocabulary for this. None. It's all invisible, and we have to create a vocabulary for it, and we got to put a story to it. Right. As humans do that. So you're constantly adjusting that as you go and pulling all the information together. And down the road, you think, well, what you thought before is not. Not correct. You know, so it could be different. So I'll leave an open mind to it. I try not to label it, but I will go so far as to say that it's been benevolent, and I've seen healings from it, and I know how it answers. When I say certain words, it gets.

[Jesse]

Excited. Which.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Words? The.

[Jesse]

Lady.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Really? That's all you got to.

[Jesse]

Say? The.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Lady. The.

[Jesse]

Lady.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Interesting. Yep. When you start talking about her. And I can do this. I could take a group of people outside at night. I've done it over and over and over. Take a mic. If we got a big enough group. It's gotten pretty simple because. And I shouldn't say it's simple as it's complex, but still, it's happened so much that it's. This is pretty.

[Jesse]

Crazy. Do you think there are pockets, air pockets of consensus reality? And what I mean by that is, like, do you think, you know, the Mandela effect? Yeah. So this idea that, you know, a lot of people in the 90s thought that Mandela died in prison, which he obviously didn't, you know, do you think that reality might work more like that than we think? And so certain mystical experiences happen, and the people with eyes to see and ears to hear experience it, and then other people walk away and they're like, yeah, I don't know, there's a thing that happened or whatever, or they, like, will superimpose some prosaic explanation upon the thing. And reality itself is far more fractured, malleable, and in the eye of the Beholder than.

[Chris Bledsoe]

One. Yeah. And it's changing. It's constantly changing. Like the Mandela effect. You. You talked about. One thing that surprised me is my wife and I've been married 43 years, right? So our honeymoon was in New York City. We'd never been there, either one of us. We had a plan. We wanted to see. See the train station, Grand Central Station, Right? So we go to Grand Central Station and we get photos and videos, and we took a helicopter ride, and we did all kinds of things to experience New York. And so I'm looking at my old photos of Grand Central Station. Right, well, Google it now. It's not called that. It's called Grand Central Terminal. And it says it's never been called that. But yet I got photos of Grand Central Station written on the table. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you see it now. It says Grand Central Terminal. What's that.

[Jesse]

About? Well, they. You know, it's the. The. The Flintstones, the Berenstein Bears, all these things where people swear that it was, like, one way. And then you look at the record and it actually looks like there's another way. And it is this really amazing phenomena. And then you get into deeper studies. Like there's this neuroscientist, Wilder Penfield, and you realize that there is no way of distinguishing between false memories and true memories. And he shows this with the ability to implant false memories into mice and stuff. And then you get. If there are these beings and any thoughts can be sort of implanted, you get into really weird ontological territory where the past. And even Schrodinger himself would say, a particle is measured in the present. You know, it might change its.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Past.

[Jesse]

Right. And you get into retro causality. In quantum Mechanics, there's obviously spooky action at a distance, but there's also spooky action across.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Time.

[Jesse]

Right. It seems like if you have two entangled photons and two double slit experiments run with those entangled photons, seems like photon B that you're doing the experiment with two days in the future. If you measure that and you don't measure the first one, the measurement of the one in the future is affecting the one of the measurement in the.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Past.

[Jesse]

Exactly. There's a great book called Biocentrism that this guy Robert Lanza writes about this stuff. So you get into really trippy territory where the past becomes the present is this constricted present, but it's like an hourglass where you have probable futures and probable pasts, and the present is this measurement sensor that is single line of code updating the past and maybe updating the future at the same time. And it's this very strange sort of model, but there's no real way to argue against that other than physical artifacts. So if you have physical artifacts around an event happening, you can argue, say, this is evidence that this happened this way or this happened another way. If you have conflicting physical artifacts where you don't have physical artifacts, it's totally one word against the other word. And you can get into numbers of people who believe one thing or numbers of people that believe another thing, but we have no idea how reality.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Works. We have no.

[Jesse]

Idea. We have a very limited. We are measurement sensors. And so this idea that science is some ontological statement of truth, like, no, we're. It's the map. It's not the territory exactly. It's just, you know, we see, like, very limited scopes of.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Reality.

[Jesse]

Right. And time is the weirdest thing of.

[Chris Bledsoe]

All. Yeah, that. That has messed with me ever since I went there and saw that. And now everything I dig up, it says, it was never called.

[Jesse]

That. Yeah, Grand Central. Yeah. The sign was on the wall, Central Station. I was like, oh, of course. Grand Central.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Station. Go Google it. Now.

[Jesse]

Though. It's not that Grand Central Terminal. It doesn't even sound as.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Good. Good. It's always been named out, according to.

[Jesse]

This.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. So I don't know what that means, but it was really. It really opened my eyes to how weird this world we live in really.

[Jesse]

Is. How do you juggle? You know, a lot of these concepts might seem crazy to the average person. How do you juggle just facing, you know, relationships, issues, things in your own life versus these kind of deeper, celestial, metaphysical truths? Those two things seem kind of hard to. Hard to juggle. I was talking to a friend yesterday, and he has all these teachers kind of in the Eastern tradition. He's kind of his own mystic, in a sense. And I think I can say this, actually. His name is Duncan Trussell, and he's. I actually just met him. He's an amazing comedian. But I felt a kinship with.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Him.

[Jesse]

Them. And he said his teachers all said that. And these are like Eastern, you know, kind of Buddhists say that, you know, they know that the celestial realm exists, but they ignore it. Because what we need to do is here on Earth, we have these kind of karmic path laid out in front of you. So I'm sure a lot of people have this sort of escapist orientation towards this subject where they say, oh, I. Well, take me up on the Craft, you know. So how do you reconcile those two.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Things? I don't. I mean, it's like, it's just, it's mind bending, the whole thing. I'm still grappling with, with that, you know, to this very day. And I focus on. Right now my main focus is on the Rosetta.

[Narrator]

Stone.

[Jesse]

Really? Why is your focus on the Rosetta.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Stone? Because I believe that I can find. I think I can get there. I think I know it's talking. I know it is. I know it's talking multiple ways, not just telepathically, because that's hard to. To prove or explain, but I'm sure it's talking through frequency, through the light, sources of light, with the right sensors and even some sort of Morse code or something. Multiple ways is trying to communicate. I've seen it, I know it. And I think one day we'll get.

[Jesse]

There. You think the Rosetta stone is trying to communicate with.

[Chris Bledsoe]

You? I think that phenomenon is trying to talk to us. And to find that Rosetta Stone, you know, that's.

[Jesse]

Just. Or is.

[Chris Bledsoe]

This. You're saying the language. I want to find the language.

[Jesse]

Of this, of the.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Beings. Yeah. And it's putting it out right now. It's talking. We just got to study it. And I'm working on a way to do.

[Jesse]

That. Do you think their language is discoveries, like the discoveries we make? What do you think the language is? Do you think it's a literal symbols and hieroglyphics? Because people say on the crafts that they see these sort of.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Hieroglyphics. I've heard biblical texts and all on them.

[Jesse]

Too. And you think we'll be able to decode.

[Chris Bledsoe]

This? I think we can get actual real time communication through the light and through sensors if we can gather enough.

[Jesse]

Data. How would we do.

[Chris Bledsoe]

This? Put it in a quantum AI computer. And there's two of them that I could probably get access.

[Jesse]

To. So you're working on.

[Chris Bledsoe]

This? I'm working on it.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Have you decoded anything.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yet? Not well, we're working on.

[Jesse]

It. Oh, it sounds like you have decoded a little.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Thing. Some, some.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Anything you can give us enough.

[Chris Bledsoe]

To get me going full.

[Jesse]

Time? I'm saying anything you can give us as far as hints as to what you've.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Decoded? Well, just that I know it's there and, and I think we'll get there in the next four or five years, maybe, maybe.

[Jesse]

Longer. Do you think there's something special about the pyramids that will learn soon or something? Because I mean, one of Your experiences was around the pyramids, obviously.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Hathor. Well, I'm hearing that next year that something might be revealed from.

[Jesse]

There. What will.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Be? Well, without getting ahead of what I was told this week, I've been invited to go down there and be involved in something that is going to release a. Something that was.

[Jesse]

Hidden. Interesting. And what. Something under the.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Pyramids? Possibly like.

[Jesse]

A. Like a little energy grid.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Thing. I don't. They didn't tell me.

[Jesse]

That.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Okay. They just invited me to be a part. And the Egyptian antiquities authorities are part of.

[Jesse]

It. Fascinating. Well, I just interviewed the guy that did the synthetic aperture radar, Doppler tomography scans of the structure under the Khafre chamber of the Giza.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Pyramid. I can't say that's what it is. I can just say I got a call from the right people.

[Jesse]

That.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Okay. Wants me to be a part next.

[Jesse]

Year. Well, that's exciting. Yeah, very.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Interesting. So I think something's coming from there that's going to be real interesting. Wow. Like changing thought. Changing. Wow.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Danny Jones, it was funny. Danny Jones, I think, came into the. Your interview with him maybe a little skeptical, but then he said he saw an orb with you outside of a diner or.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Something. Well, he called me. He's like, I want you on my show. I'm like, danny, I'd love to be on your show, but you got to do something for me. I'm going to come a day or two early, and I want to make you a believer, not a skeptic, because our interview will go differently if you're a believer. And he said, okay. Okay. So we flew down, my daughter and I and my wife, and we had dinner there in Clearwater, Went over to Indian Rocks beach, out on the beach, and he had his assistant with him with a camera. And I said, well, let's watch out of the ocean, because I can get appears up out of the ocean when I ask. It's just like out of the sky, it comes up out of the sea and suddenly here it came. Two of them. Wow. And he filmed it. We all filmed.

[Jesse]

It. See? Freaking.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Out.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Wow. Yeah, we did that last week in California with some pretty amazing.

[Jesse]

People. Wow. He also. Danny said he. I think he cut a small part of your interview where you talked about a neuralyzer, like some, like, machine that erased your memory after seeing.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Something. Yeah, I had to not talk about.

[Jesse]

That. You're not supposed to talk about that. But there is something like that that you.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Experienced. I saw the patents on.

[Jesse]

Yeah.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Really?

[Jesse]

Yeah. I mean, that's Freaky. If the government has something that could do.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That. Let's just say they can transmit chemicals through radio.

[Jesse]

Waves. Do you think they can transmit thoughts through radio waves? Yeah, it's kind of creepy. Well then, then I. Then I get into all sorts of weird territory. Like what, you know what is. Is the whole UFO phenomena. Some paranormal plague from the thought.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Trends. What if you were to see this alien appeared right here and you. And you weren't supposed to. What if it can shoot you with something that would erase your thoughts that you never.

[Jesse]

Remember? So you think they can. Do they have. The aliens can do that or the. The beings can do that? You do. Why are you high conviction in that? Seems like something where inherently if they can.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Erase. Well, I kind of learned some stuff on that and I saw the patents on it. Wow.

[Jesse]

Yeah. And you think they're real.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Patent? Well, it was the U. S. Patent office talking about.

[Jesse]

It. Damn. It's kind of.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Crazy. But it's hidden away. It was stuffed away somewhere that. Yeah. Dangerous technology so they could shoot you with a chemical, drugs or anything from 100.

[Jesse]

Yards. Some people, a few people have come on my show saying things like that. I just. I never know what to make of it because I'm like. It's.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Just. I don't.

[Jesse]

Know. I don't want to be.

[Chris Bledsoe]

True. From our original.

[Jesse]

Conversations so. With like Hal Pomeyer or with Tim Taylor? Yeah. Okay. Very.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Interesting.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Well, I can tell you the world is a weird place. I mean, just the fact that you went to Zanesville, Ohio. Did you learn anything else about Townsend Brown while you were out.

[Chris Bledsoe]

There? I never knew who he was until I got to Zanesville with Tim. And then he began to unfold who he was and how he was working with his daughter to finish a book about her father. And I learned the whole story, as much as he would tell me about his having visitors come and.

[Jesse]

Land. Did Tim Taylor believe that Townsend Brown made real anti gravity breakthroughs? As a scientist, I can't tell.

[Chris Bledsoe]

You he believed that or not. But he felt it strong enough that he was. Yeah, I think he. I'm.

[Jesse]

Speculating.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Sure.

[Jesse]

Yeah. Have you heard other stories of experiencers being shown a piece of metal and basically evaluated to, you know, to see how they react to the.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Metal? Yeah. He told me there were only. He'd only ever seen two other.

[Jesse]

Reactions. Did he mention who reacted to.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Metal? He said, but it was nothing like what I saw.

[Jesse]

Here. Yeah, well, you know, there's a story of Wernher von Braun showing Uri Geller a Piece of metal. And he says, that's not from.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Here. Wernher von Braun takes me into his personal office. There is a safe in the office. He opens a safe. I see a piece of metal. I've never seen such a color. Pulls it out. It's not heavy. Says Uri, touch this, tell me what you feel. Now I put my hand on it and I say, werner, this is not from here. He says, you're right. This is a piece of a UFO that crashed on our planet. You know, I'm mind blown because as a child I used to sneak into movie theaters in Tel Aviv to see films on extraterrestrial life. And this is coming from the mouth of Werner von Braun. Exactly. I saw some things about this metal. In fact, I had a lot of photos of it. I had to delete them. Classified, right? But I've seen some of it in real time on electronic microscope. And what I saw there were different types and. But it was moving, the one piece, and I have a picture where it looks like a universe swirling around and around with all the galaxies and stuff inside. That's what the metal. The piece from Zanesville cut that little sliver. That's what it looked like, actually moving. This other piece I saw was red. It appeared red, but it were thousands of little blocks, little square blocks, and they were self moving and stacking themselves. They were moving in the material, like replicating or.

[Jesse]

Something. What they were moving in the.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Material? Yeah, this material is like.

[Jesse]

Living. This is from Zanesville.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Or. Well, it was a piece I saw. I assume it was from Zanesville. The piece, not the red. I don't know where that came from. But the green. I'll show you the.

[Jesse]

Green.

[Chris Bledsoe]

What? Yeah, I'll show you the. I don't have the video up, but have a snapshot of.

[Jesse]

It. I want to see.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That. Yeah, I'll show it to.

[Jesse]

You. That is.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Wild. Moving like a universe swirling around and around. And the, the, the elements in that metal, I was told, had 51 elements in it, and the most.

[Jesse]

Classified.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Most we can only blend at that time. He told me about 15 elements. Humans could only figure out how to make 15 elements blend, but this had 51. One of the elements was human DNA. And he's like, how'd that get in there? And plutonium. Who puts plutonium. And.

[Jesse]

Metal. Wait, plutonium. Human DNA was in this.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Metal? Yep. And plutonium?

[Jesse]

Yep.

[Chris Bledsoe]

What? And he's like, how do they put human DNA in metal? And then they figured out in zero gravity how to, to bond ceramic to metal. And then they were able to put human DNA into the ceramic. And now your hip joints and all that, they don't fail anymore. To Saul and our medical devices. Nobody realizes it us.

[Jesse]

NASA's. Because my understanding is most manufacturing and space initiatives haven't succeeded. Like there's a company called Made in Space and it was always this kind of academic project and it never quite got off the ground. But you could in zero G do all sorts of things that you can't on the ground. Right, so. But you're saying there might be some secret stuff going.

[Chris Bledsoe]

On? Oh.

[Jesse]

Sure.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Interesting. Absolutely. But they were able to bond ceramic to the metal and human DNA into the ceramic, but they couldn't do it. Whoever did it, however it was done, we can't duplicate it.

[Jesse]

Wow. Wow. Well, Chris, this is a blast, man. I love speaking to you and I think we could. We could go on all day, but there's so many threads I feel like I need to follow up on just from this conversation alone. So we'll have to run it back and maybe I can come to.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Fayetteville and I would love for you.

[Jesse]

To. That'd be a blast.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Man. I appreciate it. You should come. In fact, maybe we get you to the coast, like on the beach. Yeah. For one couple, three nights, and we'll get a group there and blow your.

[Jesse]

Mind. That sounds amazing, man. Count me.

[Chris Bledsoe]

In.

[Jesse]

Absolutely. Thank you for coming to Austin, Texas on such short notice. And, you know, I know you travel a ton and so just coming out here for a day really means a lot to.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Me. Believe it or not, in the last three weeks, I left Fayetteville, North Carolina. I went to Orange county, met with Sammy and a group of guys, and then went up to Hollywood, met Margot Robbie and some other people, left there, went back to North Carolina, dropped my wife off, flew back to New York, met some people there, took a train down to dc, Met a whole group of. Met Anna and some others there, then came home one day and I'm back here. So it's been just burning the road up for three or four weeks and. Wow. That's why I called you last night. I was so exhausted. I'm like, I'm tired. I'm beach, so. Or I'd have been here last night with you guys, you know, going to dinner, sky watching or.

[Jesse]

Something. Yeah, no, no, no worries. Well, this was. This was really fun. And now we'll. We'll do it again and I'll come your way next time. And that's a crazy schedule for somebody who's already Gone through all the stuff you've gone.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Through. So it don't end here. It goes for the next 18 days I'm back to New York, to Pennsylvania, to D.C. and then to Wilmington for the World Forum. And, and yeah, I want to make sure I plug the world for.

[Jesse]

Him. Okay. What is.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That? It's. It was created by Mikhail Gorbachev back in the 90s in 95 to 2000 it was a five year event that ended up in New York City. When they dropped the ball, Bono was there, U2, they did the opening. But it was the. The leaders of the world basically all came together to talk about up the Y2K because they thought the world was in trouble. Right. We had to have a conversation. And so now for the next five years, this year until 2030, they're going to convene the World Forum again and it'll be abby Loeb speaking, Dr. Diana Hennessy Powell. And there's about 30 or 40, 30 speakers and they'll be. We were going to have it in D.C. at the omnishores this year, but because of the travel and the flights and also we're going to make it virtual this year and I'll be speaking on their time or two. But my big thing is on the 14th of the 15th, 16th and 17th we're going to have a group down on the beach at Wrightsville, about 40 of us doing a sky watch and we're going to broadcast it through the World Forum. Cool. Through the world. Yeah.

[Jesse]

Epic. All right, we'll go check that out. Buy UFO of God. And yeah, keep, keep checking out cool stuff that Chris does and I really appreciate you being here.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Man. Thank you, Jesse, for having me. It's been too long.

[Jesse]

Right? It's been way too long. Long time coming. But you know what? Things happen in their time.

[Chris Bledsoe]

And.

[Jesse]

Right. I think there is the questions and the conversation we had this time around is going to be, you know, it's much better than maybe what would have been a year and a half ago.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Or. Absolutely. I've learned a lot since then, you know, I've learned that I don't know anything.

[Jesse]

Right. Same with me, man. The deeper I get, the more I'm.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Confused. Yeah, that's. I say it all the time. The more I learn, the less I know.

[Jesse]

Right. Well, that's, that's literally true because if you think of your knowledge base as say it's like a sphere, the sphere grows and then the questions are the space around the sphere. So the questions are going to grow at an exponent of the sphere growing. And so the more you know, the more you know, you don't.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Know.

[Jesse]

Right. And so, yeah, I think the most knowledgeable people I know are the most epistemically humble. And they're like, I don't know, you know, because he just gets more and more.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Confusing. It does. Like I say, there's no language with this, so. No, each step you gotta come up with something different, you.

[Jesse]

Know? Yes, but it's like if you, if you're getting, if you're going into kind of higher dimensional spaces or like where there's more variables or more information, you do just have to have a better sensor. Like, you know, you need to, you know, you need to be able to audit yourself better. So as long as you can do.

[Chris Bledsoe]

That. I learned that a long time ago. You know, just, just admit you don't know. You know, don't label this thing. And, and I try not to, because I can't tell you 100% certain anything. None of us can. Nobody can. I can tell you it's. It's, it's magical, it's been beautiful and it's real and I'll leave it at that. And I can share it with others. And if I can't, my children can't. Yeah, they have it in them the.

[Jesse]

Same. Do you think there have been any attempts to censor you on any other media or.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Podcast? A.

[Jesse]

Lot. So, like, like how so? Well, and what's the motive? And. Yeah, and what's an example? And what's the.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Motive? I think that there's. The narrative is it's dark and ugly and evil. Leave it.

[Jesse]

Alone. Yeah, but you have such a positive healing.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Story. Well, and that's.

[Jesse]

Why. And then. Oh, it's. They want, they want it to.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Be this, like, dark and.

[Jesse]

Ugly.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Don't. Don't mess with it. We might lose control of the people if you mess. If so. They don't like me sharing this at all. I've been told that a thousand times. Yeah, I've been told two or three times. You're. You're doing disclosure. Yeah, don't do. We're going to do. You're getting ahead of.

[Jesse]

Us. Yeah, yeah. Any, any examples of censorship that you've. Like.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Danny. Danny.

[Jesse]

Jones.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Really? That video And a whole lot.

[Jesse]

More. Which. What did Danny. Oh, Danny Jones is the, the video's getting.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Throttled. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was censorship. That thing was going to 150,000.

[Jesse]

Views. What was it specifically that you think got.

[Chris Bledsoe]

It? That was me mentioning about some technology at Mission.

[Jesse]

Control. Okay.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Okay. And I don't want to say that.

[Jesse]

Again.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Okay. Sure, sure.

[Jesse]

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. That's wild. Yeah. And that's crazy. You backtrack. You kind of are back channeled, and you figured out that NASA was literally.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Censoring. Yeah. Crazy. Google or whoever's controlling.

[Jesse]

That. Yeah, well.

[Chris Bledsoe]

There'S. But they sent the word. That's what I was.

[Jesse]

Told. There. There has to be a connection.

[Chris Bledsoe]

There. It was about a.

[Jesse]

Technology. Yeah. I mean, Immaculate Constellation, you know, which came out in the Shellenberger, you know, testimony, you know, this. This November 2024 hearing. Immaculate Constellation had like a search spike when David Grush came out in, I think, August or September of 2023. So it's like, how do you. You can't make that up, you know, and if. If that's the case, that's like.

[Chris Bledsoe]

You know, kind of what happened with.

[Jesse]

Me. Interesting. Yeah, interesting. Yeah. And then I think there's a manipulation of Google trends because that. Then this guy, Rob Jones, who I've gotten to know a little better since then, and seems very high trust, high credibility. He. He found the spike, and then the spike got.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Deleted.

[Jesse]

Yeah. So it's like, like, if you're. If you're telling me that Google doesn't have some sort of backdoor around special access programs being named, they don't have a connection with the DoD around that. You're crazy. Like, you're the conspiracy theory. Like, come.

[Chris Bledsoe]

On. Yeah. And it happens to me all the.

[Jesse]

Time.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Yeah. I would have sold twice as many books already, guarantee you. They've cost me a lot of book sales because of Chatta Banning.

[Jesse]

Or. Yeah, well, I think you're. I think it's piercing through. I think. I think, you know, a lot of people love your story and are reading your book and, you know, whatever censorship may or may not be occurring, I. I don't think it's really, you know, hampering you in a serious.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Way. Right. Well, we're pushing through.

[Jesse]

Right? There you.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Go. They can't keep the light. Light out, Right. The light gets two cracks.

[Jesse]

And. Yeah, well, that's. This whole. This whole subject, it's like, you know, you do. Don't. Don't take my. Don't distrust everything I say or you say or anybody else. Like, there's. The world is, I think, shifting in this sort of 100 serious way. And like, you know, I. I fundamentally believe that and I see it and I feel.

[Chris Bledsoe]

It. So that's that new knowledge that's.

[Jesse]

Coming. Yes. Well, on that note, thank you so much.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Chris. I appreciate you. Thank you.

[Jesse]

Brother.

[Chris Bledsoe]

Cool.

[Jesse]

Absolutely. All.