Biden's Health, Vatican Controversy & Chasten Buttigieg On LGBTQ Lit

Summary

American Fever Dream – Detailed Episode Summary

Episode Title: Biden's Health, Vatican Controversy & Chasten Buttigieg On LGBTQ Lit
Host/Author: Betches Media
Release Date: May 20, 2025

American Fever Dream, presented by Betches Media, delves into pressing political and cultural topics with V. Spehar and co-host Sami Sage. In this episode, released on May 20, 2025, the hosts tackle the recent health diagnosis of former President Joe Biden, explore controversies within the Vatican, and engage in a heartfelt conversation with Chasten Buttigieg about LGBTQ literature.

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1. Joe Biden’s Health Diagnosis and Its Implications

The episode opens with a sensitive discussion about former President Joe Biden’s recent aggressive prostate cancer diagnosis. V. Spehar reflects on the broader implications of such a high-profile health issue:

V. Spehar [01:37]: "I think a lot of us have had an experience with ... prostate cancer. Hearing that Joe Biden had prostate cancer and it was aggressive ... brought up a lot more feelings for me about men's health."

Sami Sage adds context regarding the prevalence and treatability of prostate cancer:

Sami Sage [02:24]: "Yeah. Prostate cancer is very common. It is also very treatable usually."

The hosts delve into the specifics of Biden’s treatment, mentioning hormone therapy and the emotional toll on his family:

Sami Sage [02:39]: "He and his family are evaluating treatments. It had been responsive to a type of hormone therapy."

V. Spehar emphasizes the personal and public impact of Biden’s diagnosis, highlighting the emotional resonance it holds for many listeners:

V. Spehar [01:37]: "It's Such an intimate thing. It's such a difficult thing and it's such an unfortunately common thing."

2. Democratic Party Dynamics and Accountability

The conversation shifts to the Democratic Party’s handling of Biden’s health and broader organizational issues. Sami Sage critiques the influence of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and the consultant class:

Sami Sage [06:00]: "But I think they're speaking more generally about what are options for cancer treatment now ... people will stop beating up on Joe Biden."

V. Spehar furthers this critique by discussing the entrenched consultant class within the party:

V. Spehar [07:46]: "We have the legacy consultants that go back forever ... and still absolutely fucking shit up."

The hosts express frustration over the Democratic Party's inability to adapt and focus on core constituencies, particularly Black voters:

V. Spehar [08:07]: "We have these white consultants trying to win back MAGA voters instead of focusing on the most reliable voting bloc."

3. Vatican Controversy: Pope’s Stance on Marriage

Transitioning from domestic politics, the hosts address recent comments by the Pope regarding marriage:

V. Spehar [17:24]: "He came out and he said that marriage is between one man and one woman."

Sami Sage criticizes the Vatican’s stance, arguing for the separation of church and state in federal civil protections:

Sami Sage [18:39]: "People will use Leo's comments to try and say that your federal civil protections should be in line with some sort of religious idea."

The discussion underscores the tension between religious doctrines and contemporary societal values, particularly regarding LGBTQ rights.

4. Interview with Chasten Buttigieg: Exploring LGBTQ Literature

A significant portion of the episode features an interview with Chasten Buttigieg, an author and political spouse, discussing his new book focused on LGBTQ family life.

a. Book Overview and Themes

Chasten Buttigieg introduces his book, Papa’s Coming Home, highlighting its role as both a "window and a mirror" for diverse families:

Chasten Buttigieg [39:01]: "It's a window into the day. There's no... you could just rest, enjoy, read it a thousand times. Not everything has to have some massive lesson."

He emphasizes the importance of representation in children's literature without being overtly didactic:

Chasten Buttigieg [42:12]: "I want every kid to have access to the book. It’s both a window and a mirror."

b. Potential for Censorship and Banning

The discussion touches on the challenges of book censorship, with Buttigieg expressing hope that his book remains accessible:

Chasten Buttigieg [48:08]: "Kids should have access to books like this."

He critiques the logic behind banning such literature, advocating for broader access to diverse stories:

Chasten Buttigieg [48:26]: "There's nothing better than having your book banned."

c. Balancing Public Roles and Parenting

Buttigieg shares insights into managing a public life while being present for his family, particularly his children:

Chasten Buttigieg [29:17]: "We haven’t had time like that in the kids' lives where we're both home most of the time."

He discusses the impact of constant visibility and the importance of authenticity:

Chasten Buttigieg [56:08]: "When you lead with vulnerability and authenticity, people can connect with you."

d. Encouraging Creativity and Authentic Connections

The conversation highlights the value of creativity in parenting and personal life, with Buttigieg drawing parallels between his theater background and his approach to family:

Chasten Buttigieg [36:15]: "At nighttime we read books and then we tell stories. So they always want you to tell them a story."

e. Future Projects and Political Engagement

Buttigieg touches on potential future projects, such as starting a podcast, and the importance of meaningful political dialogue:

Chasten Buttigieg [55:32]: "We just need... honest brokerage. Yes. Have a conversation, you know, and then don't cede any ground on your values."

He praises the importance of storytelling and personal narratives in bridging political divides:

Chasten Buttigieg [55:44]: "Share your own story, how that affects your life, rather than telling a coworker or your uncle you're wrong."

5. Concluding Thoughts and Final Remarks

As the episode concludes, the hosts and guest reflect on the importance of family, authenticity, and meaningful political engagement. They reiterate the significance of diverse representation in media and literature, emphasizing that not all content needs to carry heavy political messages but can still foster connection and understanding.

V. Spehar [61:03]: "It's just like, let's enjoy reading with our kids."

Sami Sage wraps up by recommending Papa’s Coming Home and expressing gratitude for Buttigieg’s participation:

Sami Sage [61:17]: "We love Chasten. And that's it for us this week."

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Notable Quotes:

• V. Spehar [01:37]: "It's Such an intimate thing. It's such a difficult thing and it's such an unfortunately common thing."

• Sami Sage [02:24]: "Prostate cancer is very common. It is also very treatable usually."

• V. Spehar [07:46]: "We have the legacy consultants that go back forever ... and still absolutely fucking shit up."

• Chasten Buttigieg [48:08]: "Kids should have access to books like this."

• Chasten Buttigieg [56:08]: "When you lead with vulnerability and authenticity, people can connect with you."

---

Conclusion

This episode of American Fever Dream offers a multifaceted exploration of current political health, the influence of longstanding party structures, and the need for authentic representation in literature. Through candid conversations and insightful perspectives, V. Spehar and Sami Sage, alongside Chasten Buttigieg, provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of these complex issues, aiming to empower citizens without succumbing to despair.

For more updates and episodes, follow Betches Media on Instagram @betches_news and watch American Fever Dream on YouTube here.

Transcript

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[V. Spear]

Rise and Shine, Fever dreamers. Look alive, my friends. I'm V. Spear.

[Sammy Sage]

And I'm Sammy Sage.

[V. Spear]

And this is American Fever Dream, presented by Betch's News, the show that is.

[Sammy Sage]

Actively choosing to ignore the discourse around that book about Joe Biden.

[V. Spear]

Correct? Leave Joe Biden alone. Joe Biden ain't the president anymore, but.

[Sammy Sage]

We wrote that line before we learned of his terrible cancer diagnosis. And we are very sorry about that. Very sorry to hear that.

[V. Spear]

I often think not just about when it's a celebrity or a major figure that gets some sort of diagnosis or dies or something. I don't always think necessarily just about that person, but about the broader impact it has on the public. And I think a lot of us have had an experience with an uncle or a brother or dad or somebody who, who was diagnosed with prostate cancer. And so hearing that Joe Biden had prostate cancer and it was aggressive, it spread to his bones, I think brought up a lot more feelings for me about men's health than it did necessarily me over focusing on Joe Biden's specific diagnosis. So I just want to recognize for the audience that like, this is a tough one. This is like when somebody gets diagnosed with breast cancer or ovarian cancer where we just feel like it's Such an intimate thing. It's such a difficult thing and it's such an unfortunately common thing. So that's kind of where I went with it.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. I mean, prostate cancer is very common. It is also very treatable usually.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Obviously at this point we've talked enough about his age, but you can't ignore the fact that that's a risk factor for this.

[V. Spear]

Right.

[Sammy Sage]

He and his family are evaluating treatments.

[V. Spear]

Right.

[Sammy Sage]

But that it had been responsive to a type of hormone therapy. It's basically like an, I believe it's like an androgen blocker is the type of therapy, hormone therapy that he would be receiving. Yeah, but it's, it's really sad. This family has been through a lot. It's quite interesting timing with the fact that they were going to release Robert DOJ's former independent counsel, Robert her's audio recording of, you know, his, his questioning with the DOJ over those classified papers from, you know, a year from 20 ends of October 8, 2023 of all days. Which is pretty wild to think about that he was doing that the day after October 7th.

[V. Spear]

Right.

[Sammy Sage]

I mean this, like, that's what he was dealing with.

[V. Spear]

People want to like remove all of the context surrounding anything with Joe Biden and like for whatever reason have made this the thing that's going to unite Americans. All this hate for Joe Biden and all the conspiracy and all the original sin. I think the name of that book is so insane too. Like, especially given what we're dealing with now and what we've dealt with with past presidents. It's like little bit much for me.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, I saw a funny point that was like, well, technically the real original sin is that Obama chose a successor he didn't actually think could succeed him.

[V. Spear]

See, well, there we are. So, but I think also, you know, and we're once again talking about my Catholic heritage, but the Catholics are funny about medical intervention. Also. I don't know how Catholic Joe Biden is to say if he would not do certain treatments. But like, why?

[Sammy Sage]

Like what?

[V. Spear]

Well, like my grandma had colon cancer and she believed, believed that it was just her call home and she didn't want like major invade. She was only 71 and they, she didn't want major invasive things because she.

[Sammy Sage]

Said Biden would be running for two more terms.

[V. Spear]

She said this is like her. But it was like her faith issue where she was like, I think that this is too much for me to consider doing, like, because the treatment for cancer can make you very sick too. And so like, I don't Know, she decided that she would just much rather, you know, spend time with us in her full capacity than like, put her body and all these things through what she considered to be as a Catholic, like other like playing God type intervention. So.

[Sammy Sage]

Really?

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

With chemo Catholics, I didn't realize that was.

[V. Spear]

It could go either way. I think it depends on who you are. Now I know that he is, but he's also, you know, respect science, so maybe he'll do it. I can't speak for his family. I'm just saying I wonder at his age, with the stress and pressure he's under with the advancement of this cancer, when they say they're looking at different treatments, what exactly does that mean for quality of life? You know, where are we at here?

[Sammy Sage]

Well, what I had heard from, you know, doctors who were analyzing this on msnbc, it is actually possible that I think there is a bit of misconceptions around cancer experiences, cancer treatment, obviously everything's very different. But I do think that it is possible to have a decent quality of life while treating cancer. While you may necessarily not necessarily be able to cure. Cure it entirely. I do think that he could have like, there, there are options on the table for him within the treatments that don't necessarily mean that he would be feeling terribly, you know, and people are situation doctors. Yeah, well, the thing is these people aren't his doctors, so they can't tell, you know, specifically. But I think they're speaking more generally about what are options for cancer treatment now. But I think to what you're saying, you know, maybe people will stop beating up on Joe Biden. Like, to me, I don't think that, like they should, you know, look, I think obviously people should be nice to him. People should stop. You know, I think it's great for empathy, you know, people who express empathy and sympathy and to send words of care. But what I'm hoping is that, like, maybe this will give people the excuse that they need to stop blaming Biden, the person who was not mentally capable. I think we're all seeing of deciding whether or not he should even be in this race. And maybe people will take this permission to throw his group of paid advisers and the. The Democratic National Committee that changed the rules of the primary to tip the scales in his favor. Maybe we can focus on how those people are accountable. You can't both say that this man is in mental decline, which I believe he was. It is a nuanced thing. It is not something where you look the same every day or you have the same level of energy and rigor and mental capacity every day. This is how aging works. It's unique, it's nuanced. And I think that if people are going to try to say this was Biden's fault, he should have known better, you can't also then say he was in mental decline. It was up to his wife, it was up to his advisers. And when they were unwilling to say he shouldn't run the commit, the DNC should not have been like, okay, so we're going to change all our rules for you, even though the American electorate is telling us this man is too old and he, they thought he was only going to do one term. So can we now make it about the people who, who it should really be about, which are these advisers, the dnc, these people who are just so out of touch with what Americans are seeing?

[V. Spear]

I think you're dead on with that. I think that's exactly where we need to be. And I think the broader conversation about the consultant class and like, who is the Democratic Party needs to be exposed also, because we have the legacy consultants that go back forever. The neoliberal type folks, right, who are still in power, still making decisions, and still absolutely fucking shit up. And then we have.

[Sammy Sage]

And they're in each other's pockets, so they can't be honest with each other.

[V. Spear]

Nope. And very much incentivized to not win elections, but to constantly run candidates that can raise money. And then you have the new consultant class who thinks they could be a better version of the old one by doing things like touring debates. Right. And trying to win back the Republican voters. And I heard some interesting commentary on TikTok, of course, black creator. And she was saying, you cannot win the Democratic Party if you do not win and center black voters. And right now, what a lot of the consultant classes are doing is lining up a bunch of white influencers to go out and try to debate MAGA bros and try to like, win back these young people. They think they lost to the right wing pipeline. And what she exposed that I was like, wow, it made me like, sit back. She's like, and the reason why they're doing this is because these white consultants want their families back together. Trump ruined their family, made a, a schism in the Republican Party where you couldn't just be a normal Republican. Now you are Trump, MAGA Republican. And so these people are incentivized to try and get their fam, their white family members back on their side, back off of Trumpism. And that is the sort of trauma that is driving a lot of the new consultant class. It is not actually. What is the most reliable and consistent voting bloc of the Democratic party? There are 35 million eligible black voters this next election. And who are, who is, who is actually recognizing this as the powerful block that it is versus spending all of this money trying to debate Charlie Kirk and chase around MAGA people? I. I'm sick of it.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, here's the thing. Like, I have no problem with these people trying to get their families back together, but that should not be the strategy of the party. There's a huge difference between, oh, this is what the party is doing versus and. And again, like, the party itself versus what external people are doing are different things. And external people can do whatever they want. And I think that there's this, like, idea that if you talk about these external things or you promote you like them or you don't like them, that those are somehow determinant of what the actual party strategy is.

[V. Spear]

The party strategy has got to be coming through people like Pete Buttigieg and who's going on right wing podcasts to try and win back these bros, or Gavin Newsom interviewing Charlie Kirk and Steve Bannon to try and like, I don't know what that's all about, but I just don't think that bringing those people into this party makes the party any safer or stronger.

[Sammy Sage]

No, it won't work.

[V. Spear]

Yeah, I don't want anti Semites in the party. I don't want anti black people in the party. I don't want anti LGBTQ people in the party.

[Sammy Sage]

I don't think we should be talking about who we don't want in the party. I think we should be talking about trying to persuade the largest number of people possible that the Democratic Party will work for them and not gaslight them into the. Actually, prices are not too high and the president is not too old. You don't know what you're looking at. Your wallet, your bank account is not right. Your eyes are not right. He actually didn't trip over that sandbag. Literally. Like, that's the thing. It's. And this is what I find frustrating about the conversation, because you can't ignore the existence of Joe Biden as the. The esthetic issue.

[V. Spear]

Right?

[Sammy Sage]

Like, he is the avatar for the problem. But when you, when you talk about that, people are like, stop talking about Joe Biden. It's like, I'm not talking about Joe Biden. I'm actually talking about the people who allowed Joe Biden to get to this point. And those people are still in charge.

[V. Spear]

I think you said it. Still, Joe Biden is the avatar for all of the problems that we've been experiencing with the Democratic Party. I think that puts such a point of clarity on exactly what we're dealing with.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, what they need to do is stop defending Joe Biden and stop making it about this. Stop. Stop defending it.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

If they could just say, yes, we were wrong and say we were deceived, say we were deceived by this, by this inner group of people that we want to get out of the leadership of the party, then you have somebody to blame without every single person having to in the party having to say, oh, I knew, I knew it was bad. No, they were hiding him. And they were hiding him. Yeah, they were. I'm sorry. Like, it's just, you can't deny that they were hiding him. And it just makes you look like, just shills.

[V. Spear]

Well, because it's still happening. Right. And now we have this shadow world. Nancy Pelosi, who used to be front and center with her opinions, is now sort of running behind the scenes enforcing her will. And so we're still. The only thing the Democratic Party has learned in my mind is that they can't be the front facing person saying the thing, but they haven't given up the power behind the scenes. The man behind the curtain is still the neoliberal class of like the Biden era, if you want to talk about that. Politicians.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes, exactly. And, and I think part of the reflexive defense of him is because there's nothing else to say. If they had something else to say and we're like, move on. Because they're like, move on. And it's like, to what? You don't have anything for us to move on to. So they're offering nothing to move on to and yet they're insisting that you can't talk about him. So, so it's like, okay, let's get, let's get a message. How's that? Maybe we have a message. Maybe a little anti corruption message. Maybe a little getting money out of politics. Maybe we're going to try to give people a public option because this health care system is so unbelievably fucked.

[V. Spear]

It's so bad.

[Sammy Sage]

And you know what? We know you have no power to do any of it. That's fine, but at least say what you're going to try to do.

[V. Spear]

Exactly. And I just, I, so I've been a member of the Working Families Party for the last like two years now because I think that they are A better organization to represent values of the left than the DNC is per se. And I think we should talk to them more because a lot of folks are like, yeah, the Democrats suck. I'm going to be independent. And I think actually being independent is even more adrift than being part of the Democratic Party in some ways because there's so many grifters in the independent movement and it's so scattered that I'm like, let's. Let's try and get some more attention to the Working Families Party, which has a great structure, which does have values that align with all the things that we just said and that can. Like MAGA built their platform on top of the Republican Party and then switched it over. Working Families Party can continue to build on the Democratic skeleton, if we want to call it that. But flesh it out in a way that's much more in line. The liberal skeleton, and flesh it out in a way that I think addresses a lot of these issues. It's just not enough people know about them yet. Really.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. No, I think my issue is a stylistic problem. It's not about, like, because we're not even actually discussing any ideology, like, all about, like, aesthetic ideology. Like, it's the aesthetic of. Of an ideology, but it's not act. There's not a policy on the table.

[V. Spear]

Well, because the old stuff doesn't work anymore. Like protesting in the streets doesn't work anymore. They don't care. Wearing the being reactionary with your T shirts doesn't work anymore. They don't care. Doing debates against the debate thing doesn't work anymore. Also, a lot of the people doing debates don't have the range to do the debates. Debates are an academic exercise. Right. They are not supposed to set policy or be content necessarily in the way. Like, especially when the thing that they constantly want to debate because it gets the biggest clicks is, are trans people trans? Like, this is crazy, guys. Like, so I just think I've kind of like walked away from all of that in many ways. And I'm like, okay, there has to be some sort of like, come to Jesus adult coalition that says that didn't work. This isn't working. But I have found a group of people who want to work together. Like, one of the things I think is really cool that whether you're going to vote for her or not, Kat, who was a tiktoker who's running in Illinois's 9th district, I think she raised a bunch of money for her campaign because she had to. But instead of buying ads, she did Mutual aid.

[Sammy Sage]

Love that.

[V. Spear]

So that's incredible. Right now, the people who, the Democrats or Republicans are typically the people who make the ads for the, for the political companies don't want people to know that's what she did. But if I was running for Congress at a small.

[Sammy Sage]

That is an ad. You turn that into an ad.

[V. Spear]

Exactly. It's an in real life thing that has tangible impact on. For her community, that creates community. It's a place where we all got kind of gathered together and she's using her money in that way. And I think that that is the future of using this sort of money. Right. Especially as Trump continues to attack nonprofit organizations. I got furious the other day because I got an email from the Strong Museum, which we have, the National Museum of Children in Play is here in Rochester. And people come from all over to go to it. They are in a $500,000 deficit right now because their funding got cut from libraries and from wherever else Trump cut from. And I'm like, I already fucking paid my taxes, okay? And I pay a lot of money in taxes. I don't have the money and neither does anybody else to pay taxes to fund programs and then have those taxes. I don't know what he's doing with the money. Just pulling it back and it's going nowhere. We are not going to be able to subscribe to every single person substack. We are not going to be able to support every single nonprofit when we are still paying taxes that are supposed to be funding these projects.

[Sammy Sage]

And then we're talking about Medicaid getting defunded. But we need to move.

[V. Spear]

We're not going to be able to fund everybody's. Go fund me for their medical thing. We need a society structure that works right? And we can have that if we stop acting stupid.

[Sammy Sage]

We. We can one day have it. But speaking of Jesus, let's come to Jesus. I think we've had that.

[V. Spear]

Yes.

[Sammy Sage]

Had a realization about the Pope.

[V. Spear]

Yeah, he was cool for exactly one day. The Chicago memes were great.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

The.

[V. Spear]

All of that. And then he came out and he said that marriage is between one man and one woman. Which I think. You know what, that's fine. Religions get to decide what their spiritual contracts are like, but federally, my marriage is legal. Okay. Like this separation of church and state should be a thing. But people will use Leo's comments to try and say that your federal civil protections should be in line with some sort of religious idea.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, he's not an American lawmaker.

[V. Spear]

Right.

[Sammy Sage]

He's the Pope.

[V. Spear]

Yo, J.D. vance is all up his ass, though.

[Sammy Sage]

I mean, he's not that into J.D. vance. He's like, get away.

[V. Spear]

He met him. Did you see when he met him and he did this?

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[V. Spear]

He was like. Afterwards. He did the like.

[Sammy Sage]

I mean, that's what I do. Anytime I read my Twitter feed, he.

[V. Spear]

Did a very obvious Chicago shudder at him. And I was like, I love that for him.

[Sammy Sage]

I find it so strange that people thought that the Pope would think anything different about marriage.

[V. Spear]

We wanted a woke.

[Sammy Sage]

That's a requirement. He was never. Look, you're never getting a Pope like that. Like, that's just not what that religion is selling. If you want a more progressive. If you want to be able to have gay marriages, there's other sects of Christianity that will do it. It's just the Vatican is not going to do it. And, like, I think that we need to, like, understand that we could have gotten an evil Pope.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

And instead we just got, like, the guy who is fulfilling the basic requirements.

[V. Spear]

Status quo.

[Sammy Sage]

That, like. Yeah, no, this is not that. I think this is, like, he's. Look, you could have gotten a pope that loves J.D. vance.

[V. Spear]

Sure.

[Sammy Sage]

A fan.

[V. Spear]

They were trying to get that. They were trying to get one.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. Like, we did better look like, I.

[V. Spear]

Wonder how this day has responded. How could we get into that cult and find out what they think of the Pope? That's what I actually need.

[Sammy Sage]

I read that Leo had a meeting with Opus J. I don't know exactly what happened, but I did read that he met with them.

[V. Spear]

Okay.

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[V. Spear]

Well, when it comes to fire and brimstone, there was a good fire this week, though. I think so. A nice cleansing fire. Okay.

[Sammy Sage]

I thought so, too.

[V. Spear]

That Louisiana Plantation burned to the ground. Like, and at one point I read that the fire actually was out and then reignited itself. And I think this is the world that we deserve to live in now. The coincidence is, Annabelle, that haunted ass Doll from Connecticut was brought to New Orleans. And then the day after this haunted Annabelle doll is brought to New Orleans, this fire happens. So people are joking that Annabelle brought the fire.

[Sammy Sage]

Okay. I didn't understand that. Like, what was this Annabelle doll reference to the fire?

[V. Spear]

Let me tell you, my hometown. Cause, you know, I come from the weirdest place in the world, the Valley of Connecticut. So the Warrens are, like, iconic, you know, demonographers and ghost hunters and whatnot. And, like, the movie the Conjuring and Annabelle and all those are about their life. So they used to have this museum in their house that was the museum of the occult. And it was, like, all the things they had captured from around New England that were haunted. And this Annabelle doll is this rag doll that was in. You know, is, like, considered the most haunted object in the whole entire world. And it's a Raggedy Ann doll. And so she's not supposed to move or anything. But now the Warrens have died. Zach Baggins, I think, bought it. He's like the ghost hunter guy. He had it at his museum in Las Vegas for a period of time, and now it's on tour, which is not supposed to happen. Right. Like, this thing is supposed to not move around and do stuff. Yeah. So anyway, they brought it to New Orleans, which I think is. You bring up crazy. Why would you bring it to New Orleans? Of all the place. One of the most charged places when it comes to, like, might as well bring it to Savannah, Georgia. Right. I mean, where's next? So they bring it to New Orleans, and then this fire breaks out, and the whole entire plantation house burned down, but not where the servants quarters was. That house, for whatever reason, didn't burn down.

[Sammy Sage]

So, yeah. Okay. There's a lot of interesting things about this. So apparently, this was, like a big plantation. This was a very abusive, historic sugar plantation. Historically brutal.

[V. Spear]

Yes.

[Sammy Sage]

And the. They had weddings there as all these stupid.

[V. Spear]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, there's one. Well, okay, you know how I asked you, like, what. What do you think would be the best way, like, for people to handle plantations? And I started reading about this, and some people know, some people said. A few people cited the Whitney plantation and said that that's, like, a good model for the way that. The way that you could, like, turn a plantation into a piece of history? Well, they basically turn. They don't have weddings there. They turned it into a historical site, a museum where they focus on the people who worked there who were enslaved there, and not on glorifying the big house of the antebellum and. And all of that. So I thought that was an interesting thing because, know, if you do want to preserve the building, like there isn't. There is a way to do that. If you really care about preserving the history. It's doable. It's just that, you know, I think having like your gorgeous wedding photos there is like a little fucked up, especially because you could. People can sleep in those cabins. Like I was looking into it last night and there are actually, like, people can stay in. You, like, you can spend a night. Someone gave it five stars. Like, to spend a night in the old slave quarters cabin. Like, that's nuts.

[V. Spear]

Didn't Justin Timberlake get no Justin Bieber, like lively.

[Sammy Sage]

Blake Lively, lively and. And Ryan Reynolds. They also got married on a plantation. And if you look on the website, you can also see the slaves quarters there.

[V. Spear]

They're. They're in. There's. They're out of control.

[Sammy Sage]

I think it's like pretty crazy. Like, I. I understand, you know, you can't equate the Holocaust and slavery. They're not the same thing. It doesn't. It's not the point, though. I think about it like, who would spiritually want to be married or do any sort of celebratory thing on the side of a concentration camp?

[V. Spear]

Right, Right.

[Sammy Sage]

You know, it's the same kind of vibe. Like, it's the same kind of bad energy there. Well, I'd be thrilled to hear it burned down. If they were throwing weddings at Auschwitz, they should.

[V. Spear]

When I.

[Sammy Sage]

They should not. No, they should burn it down.

[V. Spear]

Yeah. No, they should not do weddings.

[Sammy Sage]

Keep it as it is. Which is. They should keep it as it is, which is a museum, which is. Which shows the difference between how Europe handled their post war history and how we have handled it. We're like, we need it to be pretty. We can't build another neoclassical Greek revival house anywhere else that didn't have salute. We just need dishwasher.

[V. Spear]

When I worked in D.C. in catering, there was this place called the Oatlands Plantation. That's what it was called when I first started working there. And then they went through a rebrand and I didn't do events there until later when they were like, we're doing a rebrand and we're going to. We are no longer calling it plantation. We're calling it historic home and garden because people don't want to get married on a plantation. This is like early 2000.

[Sammy Sage]

But it's still a plantation.

[V. Spear]

It's still a plantation. Something always went wrong. At these events, it was always like, it rained. There was some sort of issue with the food. There was always some sort of issue with the bugs. Some guests would faint or something would happen. These are cursed spaces that do not want you to have your wedding at them.

[Sammy Sage]

Not to get all, like a cult, but when I was watching the videos of the flames and the pictures, like, I def. I feel like I saw some stuff, you know, I don't. Ghost. Okay, look, I don't believe. Yeah, I believe that. I do believe in this stuff 100%. I don't believe that you could have something like that and there's no spiritual blight on it.

[V. Spear]

Sure. The energy, sure. Yeah. Of course. I'm glad that it burned all the way down to the ground because.

[Sammy Sage]

And no one died. So you can't be like, oh, what a tragedy, someone died.

[V. Spear]

Nope. And I think that that's an interesting part of it as well. And there was another story that I was reading about how people are like, oh, the architecture, though.

[Sammy Sage]

You can rebuild that.

[V. Spear]

There is plenty of this architecture all throughout the South. You could see tons of this all throughout the South. This is not a loss. Okay?

[Sammy Sage]

Also, we don't care about architecture here.

[V. Spear]

No.

[Sammy Sage]

America burns down. We pay paradise and put up a parking lot. We do this all the time. We don't care about our historical things. This is bullshit. If you can get another white column somewhere else, like, it's just, you know, you can rebuild these style homes if you really like it. Like, they exist. There's no rule against that architecture.

[V. Spear]

There are plenty of places to get married that aren't plantations. And Also, I'm a 10 out of 10. You should just elope. I. That's what we did. And I thought it was the greatest thing ever. It's so good. Just elope.

[Sammy Sage]

I mean, I have a party with.

[V. Spear]

Your friends and then have a party with your friends.

[Sammy Sage]

Are really invested in, like, what they're trying to do, the aesthetic.

[V. Spear]

I.

[Sammy Sage]

But you can get a weeping willow elsewhere.

[V. Spear]

Yeah, go to the park. They have them.

[Sammy Sage]

Anyway, when we come back, we're gonna be talking to Chastain Buttigieg.

[V. Spear]

Yes. I'm so excited about this. Okay, we'll see you in a sec. Welcome back, friends. We are here with author, political spouse, gay icon, Chestnut Buttigieg. Welcome, friend. We're excited you're here.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Thanks for having me.

[Sammy Sage]

We are thrilled to be your. One of your first stops on your book tour.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

This book is lovely. I read it last night. Thank you.

[V. Spear]

Beautiful.

[Sammy Sage]

So I just have a question. Well, first, let me say I love the animation. There was one thing I noticed. Peter's beard started growing. We need five o' clock shadow. We need to know, what do you think of the beard?

[V. Spear]

I love the beard.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, we do, too.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

If there's. The beards work, and I get every day it's about the beard.

[Sammy Sage]

Really?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

What you don't get the question, is your husband going to run for president more?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I get that a lot in the grocery store, too. But the answer, the beard is incredible.

[V. Spear]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I'm gonna pivot right around the other question.

[Sammy Sage]

How about the presidential run?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I am very much enjoying having him home.

[Sammy Sage]

You're enjoying having him home?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Okay.

[V. Spear]

That's important.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I like watching him slay dragons out there right now. But it's nice being a family for one, you know?

[Sammy Sage]

Like, you liked having papa coming home together.

[V. Spear]

Did he say to you, thank you, honey, I'm going to grow a beard? Or was it sort of like it started as like a weekend no shave thing and then was like, ooh, this is kind of looks good.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Like, he grew, like, he grows a beard very quickly. So I think early on in our relationship, we went on vacation once he grew a beard. When our kids were born, he grew a beard.

[Sammy Sage]

No time to shave.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah, no, I like it.

[Sammy Sage]

So I like the beard. I think it's working. If you also look up the comments on all his appearances, they're positive.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I think it's great.

[V. Spear]

I had a mustache dad, and I think mustache dads are great dads. But every summer vacation, he would shave that mustache and then, like, jump in the pool with us. And we'd be like, who is this man without this mustache? And I can just tell me that.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

You have to incorporate your children into the shaving of the beard so that it doesn't creep them out. If you shave it and then enter the room, they're like, who's this person?

[V. Spear]

Yes.

[Sammy Sage]

Oh, I guess that makes sense. When they're really young.

[V. Spear]

I hope that Pete gets the thrill that my dad got of shaving his mustache and then watching his children be like, oh, my God, Daddy, what happened to your face?

[Sammy Sage]

Who are you? Who are you? Okay, so we. We know, you know, Pete's going around the country, recently visited Iowa. I'm mostly curious, like, you know, taking the run of, you know, run, not aside. How are the two of you planning these things? Like, how are you talking about these things? How are you. How do you explain that to your kids? Are you gonna write them a book explaining it? Daddy's running For President.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I've reflected a lot on when we say that we're going to work, usually that means we're traveling. Okay. So the other day, I was talking to Penelope, reminding her that I was gonna go on book tour and I would be gone for a week. And I said, just remember that tomorrow I'm gonna get on an airplane. I'm gonna go to work. And she said, but you always come back.

[V. Spear]

Oh, my heart.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

And I was like, that's right. I do always come back. But the fact that it's kind of normalized for them already because we do travel a lot, and Pete traveled a lot, obviously, in the first three years of their life. So there's part of me that, you know, feels bad that they've already grown accustomed to us traveling so much and being gone so much. And obviously, once they become aware of the fact that you're gone, then it really weighs on you. Then book tour comes, like, much like my. My book tour, when I talked to you two years ago, was kind of like a break. The kids were, you know, almost. Almost two. They didn't recognize that you were gone. And that was like, I need a break because I'm not sleeping. This is like, they know I'm gone. They're asking about me. They call every day. And then you're like, I really want to get. So having papa's coming home. Yeah. So having Pete home, I really do mean it. Like, we haven't had time like that in the kids lives where we're both home most of the time. The political part of your question, like, how do you decide what you will do? What do you say yes to? What do you say no to? Is much more difficult with the kids in the picture. Right. Because it's much easier to say no to things now because you have a really good excuse. I had to miss one of their school concerts, and I felt really bad about that. I want to be present for a lot of these things. And then I think it's deciding as a political person, like, where do you take your voice? Where do you spend your energy? And how can we spend time with people in an effort to spread a message that they might not have heard before or someone who maybe hadn't been taken seriously before? And I think Pete is, you know, trying to figure that out. Like, where am I best used as a communicator and a messenger and a listener? Not so much as me, because I'm enjoying being at home more obviously, book tour is different, but I do think it's time for us to think about how we have those conversations in politics and, like, how we just maybe get offline more and start to think about the conversations in our personal lives and the people that maybe we hadn't reached out to before.

[V. Spear]

I have a question directly related to that. I know that in your earlier years, you did a lot of work in children's theater. And I'm wondering how that education and experience has prepared you for the theater of your life now and for being a dad.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I reflect on that all the time that it feels like so much of Washington is theater. Oh, yeah, it is.

[V. Spear]

Children's theater.

[Sammy Sage]

They seem to think that it's like anyone believes you if you, you know, they believe they. Was anyone going to believe Kamala Harris when she was going to give $25,000 to first time homeowners? Not because she didn't want to do it, but because it's all about the theater. It's like we used to have real policies. Now it's like, oh, what can I say?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Like, people knock vibes.

[Sammy Sage]

People say, like it's vibes, but only vibes now, unfortunately.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah. And you.

[Sammy Sage]

Which sucks because your husband has quite a bit of substance.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Thank you. Yeah, I like him, too. Yeah.

[V. Spear]

That.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

You see these people who get elected to these offices, they go to Washington and then they're just like influencers. They go on the floor, they say something crazy, then they fundraise off of it. They send out the email. You know, Nancy Mace is a perpetual victim. Right. It's. I've been attacked. This thing is happening. Rush me money. We'll match your donation. But you don't see.

[Sammy Sage]

People never see someone this obsessed with bathrooms.

[V. Spear]

Yes.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Focus on substance. Like things that, like, the whole point of politics is that we elect you so you can go to Washington so we don't have to. Right. We can focus on our families, you know, and focus on our jobs and know that someone is fighting for us in Washington, that they're trying to advance policy that will make life more affordable or easier or safer. But now it's just theater. So much of it is theater. And I think that's what tunes people out. Americans have watched Washington turn into this, you know, show, and it's not getting anything done for them or it's getting things done. And it's boring that when things get done, it's kind of boring. Like it doesn't make the news as much. Nobody's really yelling about anything or fighting with anybody about something. So then we're not covering, like, the good stuff that happens.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, the Press was famously bored during the first two years of the Biden administration. Like, they said they were bored. They're like. Well, they're. All they're doing is talking about, like, their plans. Crazy.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Turns out that's what.

[Sammy Sage]

Wow. That's what happened in Washington. Yeah. Like, turns out you actually don't want to have to think about the president. And that would be, like, a really wonderful campaign slogan.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah. You could just trust those safety boards and panels and things that you don't have to think about when you're going about your everyday life, like, turning on the faucet and getting, like, clean, safe drinking water involves so many elements of, you know, administrativia and bureaucracy that you don't have to think about all the thing that, you know, the only thing that you think about is, like, oh, I have safe water coming out of my faucet. But when people start gutting things that protect your water, protect your streets, or protect your airspace, then you start to notice it. So politics in some level should be boring. It's people doing their jobs, keeping you safe so you can focus on other things.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, I mean, I. If you want to get, like, really serious about it. I really feel like some of our foreign adversaries weaponized our comfort so that we could start to, you know, argue about seemingly trivial things and get distracted by things like what color is the green M and M Or we know what color is the woman or a man. I don't forgot about that. Like.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Like.

[Sammy Sage]

You know what I mean? Like, only in a country where you can order food to your door at the drop of a hat are people arguing over an MM candy mascot.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Like, that's not. And not to say that, like, everyone in America has what they need. They do not. But when the. I think, like, the sort of, you know, upper class, like, the political class, separates, for the most part, from the average elect, you know, average voter, that's, like, what you get. You get, like, a lot of this dumb, stupid conversation and not a lot of, like, practical conversation about how you fix things.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah, it's definitely easier to have those types of conversations or arguments or fake arguments for the sake of theater, television clicks, and news.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, they need that, too, because they need to keep themselves solvent.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah. We've got off to a great start this Monday morning, haven't we?

[V. Spear]

Or is it?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

It's Tuesday.

[V. Spear]

I still want to go back.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, Tuesday.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Let's go back.

[V. Spear]

I still want to go back and know if you're playing, like, zip, zap, zoom with the children like, how has your theater background played into your daily life as a dad?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Well, one of my favorite things about teaching, like, right out of college, when I was teaching at First Stage in Milwaukee, I was teaching at a children's theater. I would teach, like, third and fourth grade classes. But one of my favorite things to do in those classes was basically creative drama, we called it. You would give the kids a prompt, and then they would tell you what happens next. And then you'd act it out. Right. And then you'd pause and you say, like, what do you think the character's gonna do now? And then someone gives you an idea and you say, that's awesome, let's do it. And then you act that scene out. I can already do that with, you know, my almost four year olds, and they really helped with the book too, because you could bounce ideas off of them. But at nighttime we read books and then we tell stories. So they always want you to tell them a story. So we do that same process. I say, once upon a time there was. And they're immediately throwing things at me like a duck, a dinosaur, like two ducks. And like, okay, there were two ducks and a dinosaur and their names were. And they'll throw out the names. And we do that for like 10 minutes.

[Sammy Sage]

They're gonna be very creative and it makes no sense.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I love it. I love that.

[V. Spear]

That's a great idea.

[Sammy Sage]

My grandmother did with me.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

And, yeah, no, I turned out.

[V. Spear]

Now you're a professional. Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

So, yeah, no, I. No, really, I think it's really, really important to just like, encourage any form of creativity.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Inspire it.

[Sammy Sage]

I love children, so, like, getting that.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

But acknowledging as a parent that, like, your house is never going to be clean, like, just letting go of that. Because in a way, the crayon on the walls, like, the first time one of them drew with crayon on the walls, we framed it.

[Sammy Sage]

Did you do that? I saw that online. Someone did that. So special, so smart.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Like, you know, all your shipping boxes and they just build forts and it's always messy. We can be a little bit better about encouraging, like, the, you know, teamwork with cleanup time. But there's. There's an element of that where it's like allowing them to just create and think and be is so special. And then if you can get offline, like, I will never pretend that I'm perfect at this. But, like, if you can just get off your phone or get off the Internet and just like get down on their level, the things that come out of their mouths is so funny, and they're so creative. And then you're also like a superhero to them. Like, if they can't get the twigs to, you know, connect or stand up on the little fort they're building or, you know, get the rocks in the right formation that they want, and you can solve that for them the way they look up to you and you're like, yeah, I can solve this problem. Like, I can't solve all the problems that are, like, waiting for me on my phone. But, like, to my kids, I'm a superhero.

[Sammy Sage]

You're making parenting more appealing than anyone ever has.

[V. Spear]

I'm really excited. But, yeah, you know, it's very my wife. Right after this. We're getting some kids this year. This is what's happening.

[Sammy Sage]

Was the book based on When Papa's Coming Home?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

So it's actually, I. The idea came to me when I was on an airplane. I had been trying to figure out what kind of children's book I wanted to write. It started from a frustration that we don't have a lot of books like this. I was asking around for a children's book that was just a day in the life story. I did not want it to be, like, let, you know, values led or about difference, which. There's absolutely room for those books, and we need those books. But we're also just deserving of silly, funny day in the life stories of families that look like ours. And I've been trying to figure out what the story was. And I was on an airplane coming home, and I've had multiple people ask me, well, why isn't it Dad's coming home? And I was like, oh, I guess it wasn't like, it has to be.

[Sammy Sage]

Because he's the transportation secretary, I think, because that makes more sense.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yes. But, like, I feel like my dad does the really fun things, like they're baking and they're gardening and they're playing, you know, and.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, I assumed it was like the. You want him to have the association with planes. He did a good job with the planes. He's now, you know, you're built your brand building around the transportation. That's why I did.

[V. Spear]

But I think also, using the word papa instead of dad gives us more language. Right. Because in the queer community, we do use a lot of different words for mom or dad. And I think saying Dad's coming home is like, yeah, that's great. But Papa's Coming Home kind of gives you a little bit of a difference of, like, what words other families might be using more often. So I like that.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I really appreciate that. And I just. I. I met a straight couple at the bookstore yesterday when I was signing some books. And that kid's dad, they called him Papa.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

They're like, this is so cool. Because, you know, their dad, we call him Papa. Which is funny, that said their dad, we call him Papa.

[V. Spear]

Same.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

But it was neat that it's like, yes, this is a book for everybody. It's Windows and Mirrors. Right. It's an opportunity for families like ours to see themselves reflected in a book. And then it's also an opportunity for every other family to look into the lives of another family and to just see something different, which I think we all need. We need, like, thousands more books like this.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. I think what you're saying makes a lot of sense. I'd read. I don't know, it must have been, like, six months ago, a year ago. I had read someone writing about how back in, like, the earlier 20s, like the early 2000s, and like, the earlier 2010s, when people were, like, bringing queer couples into, like, pop culture more.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

And how it used to be that it was like, you would just sort of, like, have gay characters and they would sort of be, like, thrown in to just the existing plot. And this person was sort of arguing that, like, those earlier shows, like Will and Grace, that just sort of, like, were natural. Like, I guess Windows would be a better model. More Windows, as opposed to, like, the Mirror philosophy, which then became in, like, the late 2010s, which was like. It's all very, like, assertive of the diversity. It's like we're telling, like, we are making a diverse story, and we are telling you. This is a diverse story. And that person was making an argument in whatever they were writing. I don't remember what it was. That it's more effective when you just sort of, like, blend in, and it's like, as if it's like, there's no difference between this book and that book, you know, gives people, like, less to grab onto and to react to.

[V. Spear]

Well, I think there's a book that reads.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah. I think some, like, just for me, I have always thought that, like, the best way I can be a representative of my community is just to, like, live my life, live with my values. Because sometimes people tune you out when you go out there and constantly say, like, you must see me through this lens. And I just. I want to be a dad. I want to be a good son. I want to be a good husband. I want to give back to my community. But I don't want always do that, I guess, with, like, that part of my identity forward. But I think that gives people an opportunity to see, like, oh, their family's just like our family, or, oh, they're going through some of the same things as parents that we're going through as parents, or they're just concerned about our country the way we're concerned about our country. And it's not like I walk through the world saying, like, I'm a gay dad.

[Sammy Sage]

Right?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I'm a dad, and I. I'm worried about so many things that you are. And I'm just trying to do a good job the way you're trying to do a good job at everything you do.

[V. Spear]

Did you always want to be a dad? Did you know early that you wanted to be a father?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah, I did. I have been told that perhaps I came on too strong on the first date when I told Pete that I wanted to be a dad. What's that?

[Sammy Sage]

It worked out.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

It did work out.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

But I just had so many bad relationships and kind of just felt like, what's the point in going on another date when you're like, look, this is what I'm looking for. And I just felt like I was good at the things that I did. When I was in nursing school and I was a nursing assistant at the hospital, I felt like I was good at that. I liked taking care of people, but I realized I didn't want to be a nurse. And then I finished studying theater and global studies in college, became a theater teacher, and felt like I was a really good theater teacher, and I really loved it, But I felt like I was lacking this, like, element of purpose that the further into my teaching career I got, I did feel a bit more like, okay, you found the thing that you're really good at. And, you know, when I entered my classroom, which is a feeling that I very much miss today, like, when I walked into my classroom, I knew what I was doing. Like, I just.

[Sammy Sage]

You're such a great teacher.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I. I mean, I could command that room. I had a command of the subject. I loved helping my students. But parenting always felt like that thing that was maybe gonna make me feel like I had been fulfilled, like, I was fulfilled.

[V. Spear]

And so you told Pete this on the first date. You were like, look, I want to have your babies.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah. I was like, I just feel like I think I've always wanted to be a dad, and I just think I'm gonna make a really good dad.

[V. Spear]

Did he react well?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Well, clearly, yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

There Was a difference eventually.

[V. Spear]

Okay. Because when I was early dating my wife, because for gay couples, it's different, right? Because we have to really intentionally have children. It's not like we could just get drunk one night and accidentally be pregnant. And I never thought I wanted children because I didn't know that there was. I didn't like you. You know, you're a little bit younger than me. But we didn't really have a lot of possibility models when it came to seeing gay parents in the world. So I just never thought it would happen for me. And it was one of the first or second date, maybe second or third dates with my wife, we were walking down the street, going to the park, and she just, like. As we were talk, she just said very affirmatively, she's like, I'm gonna be a really good mom. And I was only dating her at that time, but I felt like I grew up, like, in that moment, and I was like, oh, my God. And obviously, like, you know, we got married and everything and are working towards having children, but it. It was like when somebody says it to you, and I can't speak for Pete, of course, but, like, you do have this moment of, like, wow, this. This is. This is a possibility for me. And I felt like, one, when she said it, I was like, I'm gonna marry this woman. And two, like, yeah, you will. Like, yeah, of course you will. And, like, we will. And that's such a cool thing that I think the gay community doesn't have a lot of possibility models or talk about enough. That feeling you get when you realize that you. You can do that.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Well, the fact that that dream became attainable.

[V. Spear]

Yeah, right.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Like, growing up only recently. Yeah, I definitely. Ten years ago, marriage or family was a possibility.

[V. Spear]

Right.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

And, you know, at that point, thought I wouldn't even make it to this point in my life because it seemed like you just could only be one type of person. Growing up in Northern Michigan. And now the fact those dreams came true, now the fact that you get to write a book like this, it's still like, I still pinch myself every now and then that we got to grow up to be these people. How lucky are we?

[Sammy Sage]

You know, I was going to ask, when you. You know, when you're with your kids, does that. Is that present? Right? You know, is that always present in your mind? You know, more than you think it would otherwise have been?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I mean, I won't like you. Like, yes, but no. Like, sometimes there are those times when you're parenting where you're like, oh, my God, it's so hard.

[V. Spear]

I could be at the club right now. This could have been a totally different.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Your friends are, like, always posting to Instagram that they're at, like, Trivia night.

[V. Spear]

Yeah. And doing.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

You're not, like, getting invited to things anymore.

[Sammy Sage]

They went out once.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

What's that?

[Sammy Sage]

They went out, like, once and they thought about it. Yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

The friends. I always tell them, like, you can invite me. Please invite me to everything, and I will say no nine times out of 10. But it's just nice to be invited. So if anyone's listening, invite your friends that have parents or invite your friends that are parents that have kids. Even though they might say no, it's nice to feel like you're still connected to that part of your life.

[V. Spear]

We have trained our friends to invite us, and they also know that I'm only coming for about an hour and 21 minutes. And that just has to do with, like, the amount of time that I have. And they're totally okay with it. Now. Tell your friends. Normalize. Having an out time for hangs. Like, don't invite me. Just out at 7. Be like, we will see you from 7 to 9.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yes.

[Sammy Sage]

7:30 to 7:30.

[V. Spear]

I am so much more likely to come. Yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

I have a question about your book. Are you concerned that it could be banned? Do you want it to be banned on some level?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I mean. No, I want every kid to have access to the book.

[Sammy Sage]

No, but, like, banned. You know what I mean? Like, they could get it. They could still buy it on Amazon. When I say banned, I mean, like, it's on the list. Like, my book is banned.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Oh, yeah. I mean, there's. There's nothing. If any conservatives are listening, you're not doing anybody any favors that there's nothing better than having your book banned.

[Sammy Sage]

That's what I'm saying.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Sales.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Kids should have access to books like this. And the. And the. The thing that I want, you know, those types of people to. To. To explain to me is, like, why this book is political to them.

[Sammy Sage]

Right. I would love for someone to try to be like, this book. Like, when you. It's just so innocuous that it's like. I would love. I would almost love to see them try to explain why.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Right. Wait, why is your book banned?

[Sammy Sage]

Horoscopes are discussed. No, it was. It's. It's. I had a nice time in Other Lies because I guess sex. I don't even know. I saw it on a list once. I'm like, I didn't Even know. No one tells you. There's no, like, notification.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

It's wild.

[Sammy Sage]

And it's just like, they decide that that's not. No.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah. I really hope that. And this is not, like, my political way of saying, like, I really do hope that this book can be a window and a mirror for lots of families. That. One of the best pieces of early feedback I got is I sent the book to a friend and they sent a picture back of their niece and nephew reading it. And they said at the end of the book, they asked them what they liked about it. These are straight couples. And she said, their kids said, I like. I like how much they love each other.

[V. Spear]

Oh, yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Which is what we want. It's just the whole point of this book is unconditional love.

[Sammy Sage]

It's so cute.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

It's.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, the animation is adorable. This is my favorite page because I'm a dog mom, and there's this dog eating the sprinkles while they're making the cake. It's really cute.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah, that's. That was my answer the other day. It's like, you know, it was this book. Is this book political? I said, you know, maybe. I did make some mistakes with the content. I don't know if it's safe for a dog to be eating frosting off the cow. I should have consulted a veterinarian.

[Sammy Sage]

Animation is so good. Like, I was observing.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Dan did a beautiful job.

[Sammy Sage]

Papa and Michigan.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Like, spelled like a kid with spell.

[Shopify Advertiser]

It's really adorable.

[Sammy Sage]

It really is.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

There's some cool Easter eggs in the. In the animation.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. That's why I was like, what are the, like, fun things that adults would. Would appreciate?

[V. Spear]

Because I'm going to have to read it 100 times to my niece. Yes.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

No, you will so enjoy it.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Bunch of questions in terms of, you know, you famously do not talk about politics in the home. So how do you, like, a. Prevent that when it's just on your feed? And then when you have to have these real conversations about, you know, your careers and what you're going to do? Do you, like, go to a mutual third place? Like, what do you do if you have it in the home?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

It's obviously much harder these days because.

[Sammy Sage]

Right.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

You watch the news or you're online and you're like. And it's. It is designed to make you want to stay there.

[Sammy Sage]

Addicted.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

It's addictive.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

That. It's like watching the burning bus rolling down the hill. Like, as you're scrolling, there's another outrage. Another outrage. Another Outrage. But the thing is, like, the outrage will be there whenever you access it. So do you need to access it 50 times a day, or do you need to choose a time where you, like, put on the oxygen mask and you're like, okay, going in. I'm gonna read the news. I'm gonna go through my timeline because I. It, like, I've had to delete those apps off my phone because I felt that it was doing something to me throughout my entire day.

[Sammy Sage]

It is.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

So I just got rid of it. That's that I still have Instagram, but, like, Twitter especially, it's just. It's like, if you tap the icon, it will punch you in the face. Are you going to tap it?

[V. Spear]

Right?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

And, like, 50 times a day, you're, like, tapping the button. It's punching you in the face. And the most important thing about those apps is recognizing that sometimes, most of the time, people are not in conversation with one another.

[V. Spear]

Right.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

So, like, when on Twitter, have you ever seen someone say, like, I totally see it your way now. Thank you so much for explaining that to me?

[Sammy Sage]

No, you might see it on Reddit, maybe.

[V. Spear]

I don't even go to Reddit. It's too dangerous. I don't go to Twitter.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

But to answer your question, like, yeah, we. Sometimes it's like we start talking about something and it's like, you know what? This doesn't need to be at the dinner table. Or, like, you know what? I don't think we have to solve that problem tonight.

[Sammy Sage]

Right.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Did you see this thing that that person said? It's like, you know, yeah, I don't know what good is going to come from us, like, hashing it out. I don't have to go on the news and explain it. You're not going on the news today to explain it. It's bad. And now we can move on because there's just not much that you can do. And that's it. But for him, obviously, he puts out statements and he goes on the news a lot more than I do, but it's just. It's con. It's consuming so much of your precious time. And then, like, the two most important things in your life are, like, playing down there on the floor and asking you to come, you know, build trains with them or color with them. Like, why are you on Twitter? Like, why are you debating what's the point? You know, this thing that happened in Washington today when you could be, you.

[Sammy Sage]

Know, with the kids.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

With the kids.

[Sammy Sage]

Do they know that you're, like, public figures? Do they Know what that means? No, I don't think they think everyone's this way.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

In Washington, when we had a security detail, like, you know, with much more of a presence.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Like, they would call the agents. Funny man. Because there were just, like, always a bunch of people, you know.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Following us in the minivan or, like, at the restaurant with us or, like, at the playground with us. But I don't think they recognized, like, why they were there.

[Sammy Sage]

Right.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

And you don't want to say, like, oh, all of these people are around because people want to kill us. You know, like, you don't explain that.

[Sammy Sage]

To being like, oh, because we're very. We're famous. We're very important.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Oh, yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

I'm personally keeping the planes in the.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Sky with my bare hands.

[V. Spear]

Like, actually, my niece is three. They have. She has no concept of public figure either. So when I'm on MSNBC or something, she'll be like, oh, Auntie's talking to her friends on the tv. Like, that's the level of what they understand. She's like, okay, you go talk to your friends. I'm like, okay.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I love how, like, my kids always ask to see our friends. Like, if we're FaceTiming. Yeah. Like, I'd be walking down the street and they're like, can I see your friends?

[V. Spear]

Like, yep, sure.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Here's all these people. Right. And then they, like. And then they're. And then it's better. But if you don't pan the camera.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

They'll keep asking.

[V. Spear]

Oh, she must sound crazy in preschool. I'm sure when she's like, my auntie was on the TV talking to her friends, they're going to be like, this child is delusional. Like, they don't know who I am.

[Sammy Sage]

Very easy to find.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Imaginary auntie.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

So it's very easy to find out.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Have you made any progress on convincing Peter to start that podcast we talked about?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah, I think he. I don't want to speak for him. I think maybe he's decided that maybe there are too many podcasts and better. Like, he's a better communicator when he goes on other people's platforms. Like, instead of inviting people into his house, like, he should go into other people's houses or, like, other people's platforms.

[V. Spear]

I think that's a great guest. He's a good get. He should definitely not hoard his guest by having his own podcast and spread that wealth around.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I think he enjoys, like, engaging in those types of con and, like, very different conversations.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah, so, like, deciding what your niche is and then launching the platform. I think he just enjoys the challenge of, like, going into an environment, sitting down and answering those questions, rather than, like, having a platform just to have it.

[Sammy Sage]

Does he prefer to go on with people who he agrees with or he. Who he thinks he'll disagree with?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I think he likes the challenge.

[Sammy Sage]

I think it's good. And he should keep doing that because it's very boring to listen to them.

[V. Spear]

I agree. I agree.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was. I'm very proud of him and what he's been doing, and I think that's what we need as a country right now. We just need, like, sitting down, honest brokerage. Yes. Have a conversation, you know, and then don't cede any ground on your values. Like, go in there, lead with your values. This is what I believe. This is why I believe it. I'm very proud of him that he can do that.

[V. Spear]

Well, you're both so good at that. You're both great at that. You both come in very calm, very educated, very here to, you know, just be a part of the conversation and lead the community. And I think that that's really just a testament to. Obviously, you must have a strong foundational home life, and. And that's something that people like to just see, even, you know, just people who love each other, like you said.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I think when you lead with vulnerability and authenticity, people can connect with you. And, like, if you don't like me because of what I've said, that's okay. At least you don't like me. But I don't want to pretend to be somebody else. I can't sit down to every interview and be like, okay, remember, like, these are your talking points, or this is who the public thinks you are. So try to be that person. And I think we just need to, like, come down to earth a little bit and have these conversations with one another. And storytelling and authenticity is where you get people. I'm not saying that that's what I do, but everyone should try that. People will connect with you when you lead with that vulnerability. When you're talking about something that's really difficult in politics, share your own story, how that affects your life, rather than telling a co worker or your uncle, you're wrong because of this, well, hey, that affected my friends, or this is how it affects my family. We've been through something very similar specific. Share that with them, because then they see you more as a human being rather than just like, you know, a pundit telling them what's Right. And what's wrong?

[V. Spear]

What is a. This is a hard hitting question. Okay. This is gonna be very politically charged. What is your favorite musical and do you still spend time in the theater? Have you seen O Mary?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I would love nothing more than to see.

[V. Spear]

Oh, my gosh.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I. One of the last shows I saw. I, I've seen, I've seen Death Becomes Her.

[V. Spear]

Oh, so good.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Incredible.

[Sammy Sage]

Was it? I love the movie.

[V. Spear]

That's so good.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Good.

[V. Spear]

It might be a musical Sammy likes even. Yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

You'd like this one.

[Sammy Sage]

Okay, fine.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

So great. I, I, I seek out opportunities to be in the arts because it's, you know, two hours and it just does something to my soul. It makes me feel more alive. It makes me feel more connected to my humanity and the people around me. I appreciate the laughs. I love the creativity. It's great to see people in their element and just be reminded that they're like, really good, funny, creative people who.

[V. Spear]

Are talented and work at their craft and believe in creativity. I agree. It's a, it's a really nice two hour window. What's your, what's your Go to car karaoke song, though? Like, if you have to sing it out, if you're, you know, what would you sing?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

My kids are well rounded, so we. Right now, they're hooked on Beauty and the Beast. They don't like the movie, but they do like the music.

[Sammy Sage]

Okay, okay.

[V. Spear]

All right, we'll take it.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

You know, toddler language. It's like, I want. The other day, Gus was like, I want Bon Dieur.

[V. Spear]

Bonjour.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

You want what? I want the Bon Dure song. It's like, bonjour. Like, are you talking about Belle from Beauty and the Beast? Like, yes, because it starts with.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I know the scene where she's walking through townspeople.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

So we like that. We're really into Celine Dion right now.

[V. Spear]

Oh, Celine.

[Sammy Sage]

Good, good.

[V. Spear]

So good.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Earth, Wind and Fire.

[V. Spear]

Yes.

[Sammy Sage]

This is perfect.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah, we have like a.

[V. Spear]

Have you tried ACDC's thunderstruck on them yet?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

It has not.

[V. Spear]

You should try it. That'll get toddlers going.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

We love abba.

[V. Spear]

Abba's great. We love this, though.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Credence Clearwater. Revival.

[Sammy Sage]

They're getting a full musical education.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

It's. We're all over the place. Bruce Springsteen.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Like, we love Bruce.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

And it's kind of funny that I'd be like, does anyone. They'll be like, I want to listen to that song with the lady. And I know exactly what they're talking about. It's probably like either Florence and the Machine because she's on the album cover.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

You know, or it's Celine Dion on. On the COVID The disco song is September from Earth, Wind and Fire.

[V. Spear]

Love it.

[Sammy Sage]

This is amazing. You know, you should see while you're here, if you have time. Sarah Snook in Picture of Dorian Gray. It's insane. Too much.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

She plays all the parts.

[V. Spear]

Right.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I need to come back. I always say this. I need to come back to New York and allow myself to just see some.

[V. Spear]

See a couple shows.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

But I'm always, like, here for work, you know?

[Sammy Sage]

Right. Because why would you, like, come not for work?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Like, you have something for work here probably every time you and any other.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Parent can, like, probably recognize it. Asking your spouse if you, like, do you mind if I go on my work trip a day early so that I can see a show? They'd be like, are you.

[Sammy Sage]

Are you crazy tonight?

[Chasten Buttigieg]

I think every now and then people might allow that. But I'm here enough that, like, I. Yeah, Yeah. I just need to make.

[V. Spear]

We gotta get you into. Oh, Mary. Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Afternoon. That's. That's when I saw it on my birthday.

[V. Spear]

There you go.

[Sammy Sage]

Wonderful.

[V. Spear]

The book is Papa's Coming Home. I can't read through the screen here. And you can buy it wherever you get books. Everywhere. Local bookstores. And if not, it'll be available at the libraries, too.

[Sammy Sage]

Bookshop.

[V. Spear]

Yes.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Or you can buy a copy and donate it to your library.

[V. Spear]

That way they have it. Oh, very nice.

[Sammy Sage]

It's really lovely. Great animation.

[Chasten Buttigieg]

Thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

[V. Spear]

Sammy, that was so lovely. I love that we got to hear about, like. Like you said, it's just a book. That's a window into the day. Right. There's no. You could just rest, enjoy, Read it a thousand times. Not everything has to have some massive lesson. It's just like, let's enjoy reading with our kids.

[Sammy Sage]

And you will read it a thousand times. If you have children. Children. They're gonna make you do it over and over again. And the pictures. But I still enjoyed it. It was a great book. Highly recommend it. We love Chastain. And that's it for us this week.

[V. Spear]

We'll see you next week. Until next time. I'm V. Speer.

[Sammy Sage]

I'm Sammy Sage.

[V. Spear]

And this is American Fever Dream.

[Sammy Sage]

Good night, Betches.