Democracy Dies At The White House Easter Egg Roll: Cyber Checks, Katie Phang On Paul Weiss, And DMs Leaking War Plans

Summary

American Fever Dream: Episode Summary Title: Democracy Dies At The White House Easter Egg Roll: Cyber Checks, Katie Phang On Paul Weiss, And DMs Leaking War Plans
Host/Author: Betches Media
Release Date: March 25, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of American Fever Dream, hosts V. Spehar and Sammy Sage navigate the tumultuous landscape of American politics and societal anxieties. The conversation weaves through personal experiences, systemic issues, and pressing political events, all underscored by a blend of humor and critical analysis.

Travel Anxiety and Immigration Concerns

The episode opens with V. Spehar and Sammy Sage discussing the increasing paranoia surrounding international travel, particularly in light of enhanced surveillance and potential detentions.

• V. Spehar (02:01): "It's like generationally scary for me because my grandma didn't even want us to have a passport... It’s starting to feel like that here, like, will it be increasingly more difficult for us to get in and out?"

• Sammy Sage (06:32): "The UK, Germany, Finland... telling their citizens not to travel to the U.S. due to rising authoritarian practices."

They highlight disturbing incidents, such as the detention of a Canadian actress from American Pie without clear reasons, amplifying fears of arbitrary arrests.

• V. Spehar (06:52): "How can you make America great again if you're going to detain the actress of American Pie?"

Trump Administration’s Targeting of Law Firms

A significant portion of the episode delves into the Trump administration's aggressive stance against prominent law firms perceived as adversarial.

• Katie Fang (29:23): "Paul Weiss... one of three law firms targeted by Trump's executive orders. They reached a deal involving a $40 million pro bono legal service commitment to support the administration."

The hosts discuss the implications of such measures, suggesting a slippery slope towards authoritarianism where legal institutions are undermined.

• Sammy Sage (33:49): "Nothing good comes from capitulating to these demands. Who's going to enforce the terms?"

White House Easter Egg Roll and Corporate Sponsorships

V. Spehar and Sammy Sage explore the controversial transformation of the traditional White House Easter Egg Roll into a corporatized event under President Trump.

• V. Spehar (15:45): "Donald Trump has said, why are we not NASCAR-ing this? ... putting out a non-page document to call for corporate sponsorships."

They critique the commercialization of a historic event, fearing it erodes the essence of presidential traditions.

• Sammy Sage (19:39): "Democracy dies at the White House Easter Egg Roll, but it's going to cheap."

Interview with Katie Fang: Legal and Democratic Implications

Mid-episode features an in-depth interview with legal analyst Katie Fang, who expands on the administration's legal battles and the broader threats to democratic institutions.

• Katie Fang (35:44): "These are lifetime appointments... Republicans are stacking the judiciary to ensure long-term control."

Fang emphasizes the critical role of the judiciary in maintaining checks and balances, warning against the erosion of the rule of law.

• Katie Fang (37:45): "People are worried because their social media is public. If they perceive you as an enemy of the state, it’s very much a dictatorial, autocratic regime concept."

Leaked War Plans on Signal

Towards the end, the hosts discuss a shocking revelation of top-secret war plans being coordinated over the encrypted messaging app Signal.

• V. Spehar (47:23): "JD Vance and Pete Hegseth planning war with Yemen over a Signal check chat... Congratulations on the strike."

• Sammy Sage (50:16): "They’re cheering each other on. Good job, Pete. And your team. The team in Mal did a great job as well."

This segment underscores the alarming behavior within high levels of government, questioning the operational security and decision-making processes.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reflection on the pervasive sense of fear and the importance of community resilience in preserving democratic values.

• Katie Fang (46:40): "These are the times when we realize who our community truly is... to help each other."

• V. Spehar (51:14): "Katie Fang, I love you so much. You scare me and also prepare me. And that's all that we can hope for."

The hosts leave listeners with a sense of urgency and a call to remain vigilant in the face of escalating threats to democracy.

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Notable Quotes

• V. Spehar (03:52): "This feels like generationally scary times."
• Sammy Sage (12:09): "You can't cower on your rights or they get taken."
• Katie Fang (35:44): "These are lifetime appointments, ... stacking the judiciary."
• V. Spehar (49:11): "They can't be this delusional."

Key Topics Covered

1. Increased Surveillance and Travel Restrictions: Highlighting the growing fear of unjust detentions and privacy invasions.
2. Political Pressure on Legal Institutions: Examining the Trump administration's targeting of law firms and its implications for the legal system.
3. Commercialization of Presidential Traditions: Critiquing the corporatization of the White House Easter Egg Roll.
4. Judiciary's Role in Democracy: Discussing the importance of an independent judiciary and the dangers of its undermining.
5. Operational Security Failures: Revealing lapses in government communications leading to leaked war plans.

Insights and Conclusions

The episode paints a grim picture of America's current political climate, where traditional democratic safeguards are under siege. The hosts argue that without strong institutional checks and community support, the nation risks sliding into authoritarianism. Through personal anecdotes, legal analysis, and current event discussions, V. Spehar and Sammy Sage urge listeners to stay informed, protect their rights, and support institutions that uphold democratic values.

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For more in-depth discussions and updates on these topics, tune into future episodes of American Fever Dream, available on all major podcast platforms.

Transcript

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[V. Spear]

Dreamers, look alive, my friends. I'm V. Spear.

[Sammy Sage]

And I'm Sammy Sage.

[V. Spear]

And this is American Fever Dream, presented by Batches News, where we explore the.

[Sammy Sage]

Absurdities and oddities of our uniquely American experience. And I'm just back in America from Paris for the weekend.

[V. Spear]

Bonjour. I'm so glad that you were able to get Paris for official baguette day, which I believe was Friday.

[Sammy Sage]

I didn't even realize that, but I was eating them on Friday. It was a lovely time. I have some notes from across the Atlantic. I'm especially happy that I was able to get back, you know.

[V. Spear]

Well, I was worried about you. I'm like, what would compel you to be like, I'm gonna take a little jaunt with all this crazy stuff that's going on. Like, were you scared about.

[Sammy Sage]

It was planned before that. I did have a bit of anxiety, but at the same time, like, I haven't done anything wrong. Like, well, I neither have never done anything wrong. And as much it does seem that way, but, you know, I'm an American citizen and I have never committed a crime and I have global entry. So, I mean, first of all, I will say. But I don't know if that necessarily would matter, you know what I mean? If in certain circumstances. But I will say it did give me anxiety. I saw your posts and other people's posts and I turned my face ID off when I was coming home just because why not? And it did. I will say it gave me a lot of anxiety in general. And I was looking forward to seeing how the French would react to Americans. Honestly, like, it didn't really seem like any. Anything Hugely remarkable, the few conversations I did get into, you know, people are definitely conscious that what's going on here is crazy. And I had a longer conversation with a bartender about, like, their political engagement. And basically he had said, like, I'd asked him, you know, people go on strike all the time here and, you know, but what. What's political engagement like? And he said, well, turnout is really only 50% ish, because people really don't feel like their vote matters, but they do have the economic security to be able to go on a strike when they have something to complain about. So it is like an interesting dynamic because here labor is much less powerful, I would say, and much less able to get their demands met.

[V. Spear]

Well, I'm going to Italy in like two weeks or whatever. And, you know, my plan is like, I guess take a burner phone, like, because I don't know if they check your social media and they see anything I've ever said. I just, I'm like, okay. It's like generationally scary for me because my grandma didn't even want us to have a passport because the Albanian thing and whatnot, and was like, I don't want you to leave. Why would you ever leave this country? It's so scary. And like, she went through the whole thing of, like, when her dad would have to try and go back, he'd have to go behind the Iron Curtain and all this stuff. And it's starting to feel like that here, like, will it be increasingly more difficult for us to get in and out? And I saw, speaking of labor, though, Donald Trump's or Elon Musk really tried to get the Italian laborers, the Italian union that services our air base there, to send that email. What are five things you did last week? And they were like, get in Italy. We have permanent positions. You can't fire me. And our union is like, get. We don't answer to you. We just provide the services to the Air force base, but we do not answer to you. And. And he was quite surprised by that. But I love that for the Italians.

[Sammy Sage]

That was another thing he had said. He said that it's really hard to get to fire someone. You pretty much get to keep your job, like, unless something. It's really in a pretty clear, extreme situation. Also, this person who I was speaking to had lived in the United States, all over the South. He came to the US for country music.

[V. Spear]

Real America.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. But he was not, you know, he liked. He was fond of America, and he wants to come back. Like, even though this is all happening, I'm like, yeah, sure.

[V. Spear]

Good luck, Pierre. I don't know if they want you to come back yet. I don't know, man. I don't know. It's. It's spooky. The travel stuff is definitely spooky. Yeah. So what is Mexico? And I'm like, I don't know. I can't think that far ahead.

[Katie Fang]

So.

[Sammy Sage]

And this is happening, and other countries are taking it pretty seriously. The uk, Germany, Finland. A number of countries have issued travel advisories to their citizens telling them not to travel to the U.S. all these countries kind of told them slightly different instructions. Some were more focused on if you're a trans or non binary person and your passport's marked with an X that they recommended people call the embassy in the US to. To the US Embassy to figure out what they should do because they might have an issue. And then the UK basically said, make sure you really follow the entry requirements very strictly because you're at risk of arrest or detention. And it seems like these are based on real things that have been happening. There was a Canadian woman who was detained, and it was, you know, she said it was not really clear why she was detained.

[V. Spear]

Yeah, but that Canadian woman that they took, they keep saying Canadian woman. Like she's just some random Canadian woman. This is an actress who was in the movie American Pie. They put her in chains and detained her for, like, over a week. It was. It was like quite some time. So, again, that, you know that that freaks people out. She's got no criminal record. There was no, like, reason for this. Seemingly.

[Sammy Sage]

How can you make America great again if you're going to detain the actress of American Pie? Is there anything more American than American Pie?

[V. Spear]

Do you think she said that? Because I would. I'd be like, I was an American Pie.

[Sammy Sage]

Do you know I am.

[V. Spear]

Do you know who I am? And then there's Another story about, I believe she college student from the UK and her, she's been detained for like two weeks. And her father's like, I do not know why this is happening. We are living a nightmare. This is not a person who has any criminal history. So it freaks me. It freaks me out. And the, and the thing that freaked me. So when I get scared, I like go and look at what exactly could possibly happen. And legally, yes, the Border patrol or TSA or ICE can go through your phones. They can do what's called a cyber check. Even if you're a U.S. citizen, if you're a green card holder, it doesn't matter. And it, and that is happening more frequently now. And what they're seeing is if you are a threat to the United States and they're considering threat to the United States is like being contrarian to the Trump administration. The thing that real freaked me is they can look at your social media from their phones if it's public. So, like, they could go through and see Vita Spear, Google Vita Spear, pull up under the desk news and be like, oh my God, this bitch hates Trump. And that scares me. That, like, scares me.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, yeah, I mean, of course, that's, that's the thing. Like it. And also, if they're used to me, I'm like, okay, if they're using any form of AI that is very clear how to catch those people, you know, how to categorize someone, they can literally like sort by algorithm.

[V. Spear]

So, and they're also. There's two different types of checks. So there's that one with the phone, which is why then I was like, okay, well, I'll get a burner phone and then I'll just have my phone. But when I go to Italy, I'll probably make all of my profiles private, I guess, because you can't like, see into it if it's private. I don't have anything else for the four days, I guess. And again, am I being extra? Maybe. But I'm a very scared person. So I'm going to do the maximum. Right. I've got some speeding tickets out there. I don't know.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, maybe pay those before you go.

[V. Spear]

No, they're paid, but I'm saying, like, I don't know what they think is like cop activity. But the second thing that they're doing and people have noted is that they're plugging in some sort of computer system to people's electronics and they don't know if they're uploading or downloading stuff. And again, it's because it's happening right now. It's just sort of spooky. And, you know, people don't know what it's going on yet. I watched a TikTok video of a woman who said she landed in Miami from Aruba. She. Her job is she's like a professional pet shuttler. So, like, if you're a rich person and you go on vacation, this lady will like, take your dog and watch your dog and move it back and forth. And she came from Aruba into Miami, and she said there were 30 ICE agents, like, lining the tube and sort of randomly selecting people before they even got into the airport to screen them when they were coming off the plane into Miami. And I'm like, you know what? This is a lot. There was another guy who said that happened to him. We know there are two people who got stopped and detained in Boston Logan Airport. And none of them are what Trump calls the worst of the worst criminals. Right. And yet people keep doing weird shit out there. There was a Pennsylvania man who was going through security in a New Jersey airport and was found to have a live turtle in his pants. So there's people like me preparing for the.

[Sammy Sage]

What they do with him.

[V. Spear]

But, like, this guy shoving a turtle in his pants. They said to him, sir, why is there a turtle in your pants? And he said, basically, I don't know. He had wrapped a little turtle in a blue towel and stuffed it in his pants so he could take it on the plane.

[Sammy Sage]

He wanted to get it home. Yeah, he wanted to keep this turtle from wherever he was going. And what they do with him. Where's he now?

[V. Spear]

No, they took away his turtle, and I believe he was able to board the plane and whatnot. But I'm like, turtle pants. Why would you do that right now? Like, of all the things to do.

[Sammy Sage]

Right now, he must be pretty confident that he is not a Trump supporter. He's a Trump supporter, man. Nothing.

[V. Spear]

Yeah, he's probably a Trump supporter, man.

[Sammy Sage]

He is Pennsylvania or he's just disengaged from politics. What I'm wondering is how do they select where they where and when they will deploy a tube full of ICE agents? That's kind of what I'm wondering, like, at what Is it truly just random? Are they pre picking these people? Like, who? I would like to know, like, what is sort of the triggering determination? Because it does feel so super rand and maybe that's part of the point.

[V. Spear]

I think the point is making it random enough that no matter where you are, you're always Looking over your shoulder. So it happened in Boston, right. They have a Democratic mayor and a Democratic governor, and it happened there. It happened in the Miami airport where there's a lot of, you know, Latin people traveling back and forth and Hispanic folks traveling back and forth. It's happening everywhere in a way where you can't target it. Exactly. Like, I'm justifying in my mind even now with the trips that I have to do. I'm like, well, this one is going from Philadelphia to Italy. So that seems like more safe than if I was going from then. The Mexico trip I'm supposed to do, which is going from JFK to Tulum. I'm like, okay, well, coming back from Mexico, he's got such a jag against Mexican people right now. Would it. Would it be like, oh, a flight from Mexico to JFK is more of a target, but it doesn't seem like it matters at all, so.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, here's the thing. You haven't done anything wrong. You're a citizen who has. I am aware of what I'm looking.

[V. Spear]

Citizen Sammy, I understand, but the thing.

[Sammy Sage]

Citizen, I understand, but you. But that's not wrong. Yeah, that's not wrong. All you have is your rights, and if you cower on them now, that's when they get taken. So you did not do anything wrong. You know, I'm a citizen. Why do you have a search warrant to check my phone?

[V. Spear]

No. Well, that's the thing. Technically, if you are, you know, you don't have to give a password way. You don't have to give a password. But that could. That could make it take longer. Wait, they could take it things.

[Sammy Sage]

So then they can take your phone. But. Okay, what are. What are they going to prove on your phone?

[V. Spear]

I know if they.

[Sammy Sage]

If you have a burner phone, you know, whatever.

[V. Spear]

Whatever this extra mile. But it's like, it's so. It's just. It really does. It is starting to feel, I think, much more difficult than I thought it was going to, you know, like, I think we got to the authoritarian dictator part, like, pretty quick.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, it's not great. I think that's what I'd say. That's how I would assess it as well.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Okay. Well, we're going to take a break.

[V. Spear]

Scared the shit out of you. Xanax on the break. Speaking of t. Xanax, we need a lorazepram. I am. I'm very fascinated by ketamine lately, and perhaps we'll do an episode on this soon, but I don't know how people are functioning micro dosing ketamine right now or any of the other things because I'm raw dogging the world and I'm still scared. I can't imagine like losing faculties and trying to do this half with it.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, it really I think depends on how much ketamine one takes and I.

[V. Spear]

Need to be on like an Elon musk level of ketamine to get through this.

[Sammy Sage]

I don't. Let's get some listener input. Email US American Fever Dreamches.com if you have any thoughts on ketamine or if you are a ketamine expert or. Yeah, tell us know much about it. Anyway, when we get back from the break, take 30 seconds and breathe deeply on the break because I think that's what we all need. We will talk about something a little lighter.

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[V. Spear]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. Welcome back, friends. And for this segment, we will be diving into how everything is a grift. We are in my favorite period of the year, which of course is that time between St Patrick's Day and Easter when I feel like a lot of cool stuff happens. It's like spring. It's the Lilac Festival here. We got a lot of cool stuff going on.

[Sammy Sage]

But Jesus is resurrected.

[V. Spear]

Jesus is, yes, he is risen. Stations of the cross, all of the things are happening right now. But a new tradition starting up at the White House is having corporate sponsors for the Easter Egg Roll. Do you know what the Easter Egg Roll is? Have you ever heard of this?

[Sammy Sage]

I have some understanding of it.

[V. Spear]

So basically, at the White House, there are two. Yeah, they invite, you know, kids, usually kids of federal employees and different people to the South Lawn. Halloween is one. And they go trick or treating right and then the Easter Egg Roll is the, this wonderful tradition started by Rutherford B. Hayes, like in the 1800s and.

[Sammy Sage]

Basically sounds anti Semitic to me, but whatever.

[V. Spear]

It's sponsored by the American Egg Board. Now, understandably, eggs are very expensive. Maybe the American Egg Board is. Is hard up this year. So are they going to use real eggs? They do. They use. Yes, there's. There are real eggs involved. No, there are now wooden eggs for the last, like how it started with a real egg and I think you could color eggs at it. But now there are these, like wooden eggs that the American Egg Board and whoever else pays for White House Historic Society. And they say like, you know, easter egg roll 20, 25. And they're very cute for the kids to take home. Not this year. This year Donald Trump has said, why are we not NASCAR ing this? Now? The man did just ride the beast through the Daytona 500 the other day. So perhaps he was like, hey, we should get sponsors to show up to the Easter Egg Roll the way they show up to nascar. And so he put out a non page document to call for corporations that.

[Sammy Sage]

Want to sponsor a brand act.

[V. Spear]

Yeah, like a brand deck. Yep. So the sponsorship offers range from $75,000 to $200,000 with the promise of your logo and branding opportunities. And I'm wondering this. CNN got this document. And I'm wondering if CNN got the pitch document because the White House is using a photo of Kaitlan Collins, the CNN news reporter, to sell these sponsorships, which is kind of crazy to me.

[Sammy Sage]

She's like, she's in the deck.

[V. Spear]

Mm.

[Sammy Sage]

Because. Why?

[V. Spear]

No, because she's pretty, I guess. Like, no reason. They're like, you'll be able to like, hopped up with journalists and federal employees and like, these are all the people that will be there. And they use Caitlyn Collins pictures.

[Sammy Sage]

Oh, because she'll be there. Because she'll be there reporting as a reporter.

[V. Spear]

Yes.

[Sammy Sage]

That is so.

[V. Spear]

A little bit creepy. So creepy.

[Sammy Sage]

I have questions. Where do the sponsorships go? Like, are they on the. Are the eggs themselves going to have like Monsanto's logo or is it going to be signs on the lawn? Is it going to be banners off the house? Could you pay extra for a giant banner off the house?

[V. Spear]

Could be. Well, one year they did a partnership with Disney because Disney had something coming out and they gave a bunch of money. But back in those days, there used to be White House. Oh, God. It was a long time ago that they did something with Disney. But the White House council says, you know, it can't be visible. Like you can. We can. On napkins and literature we hand out to people. You have the Disney on there, but you can't have it on there for it's. It can't be on the White House lawn. Like, that's crazy. So. But that's not this year. This year we're getting. It's going to look like a baseball stadium. We'll have a baseball stadium level. Like billboards everywhere, I guess. I don't know if maybe extra if you want your name on the egg or something. I'm going to be grossed out by anybody who takes this sponsorship because it's just so weird. And it's not just Trump. The other thing here is there is an event company that has been hired to put this all together. Okay. The event company is called Harbinger, which sounds ominous. And it was founded by Matt hall, who was the deputy director of candidate operations in advance for the Romney for president organization from 2011 to 2012. He also worked on campaigns for Meg Whitman, the governor of California, and John McC. This dude is very, very Republican. And apparently all money raised by Harbinger will go to the White House Historical Association. We'll see. Donald Sherman, the chief counsel and executive director for Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, said he had never seen anything like this before associated with the White House.

[Sammy Sage]

I'm not gonna lie. I'm actually kind of excited to see how this goes. Like, I'm kind of excited to see how it's staged. Tesla's definitely going to be a sponsor. Maybe Amazon, maybe the Washington Post. Why not?

[V. Spear]

Oh, I know.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, Democracy dies at the White House Easter egg roll, but it's going to cheap.

[V. Spear]

75,000 to 200,000.

[Sammy Sage]

I mean, like, he's expecting to get a lot of sponsors. Also, he doesn't actually need to pay for this event. It's paid for. Where I fear this is all going with a corporate sponsorship is you know how. How military people have like lots of different badges. You're obviously aware of this. This could easily be. They become NASCAR brand packages, patches that leave it. It's going to be a military. Sponsored by. Sponsored by Marriott.

[V. Spear]

Yeah, we said it at the same time. I can't. I can't with it, so. And the thing that I always wonder anytime he comes up with a grift is where does the money go? In this case, we know it's going to the White House historic associ. That money goes to things in the House. Right. And to preserve the. The. The White House, which technically means he would be able to direct that funding anyway to, I don't know, maybe add more gold cherubs to the Oval Office or, like, do whatever other thing he wants to do. We need those Oval Office. Yeah. So maybe to pave over the Rose Garden. That's the other plan.

[Sammy Sage]

Doing that.

[V. Spear]

Yeah. Well, he has a particular. I told you the first time that. About the Rose Garden. It was put in by Jackie Kennedy and Bunny Melon. It took a lot to keep it up. And there's not really, like, ladies who are associated with the White House anymore who, like, come over and garden like they did in the 60s. Like Bunny Mellon did.

[Sammy Sage]

Like free labor.

[V. Spear]

Yes. Or like, you know, ladies who garden, they're like, socialite thing to do is like, come and garden at the White House. That's why it was kept up before. Jackie Kennedy's Rose Garden was really not in good shape for a very long time. The Obama stuck a bunch of box trees in there. And then I told you my friend Ricky was the social secretary, and she was married to Thomas Lloyd. This is his grandmother, who was Bunny Mellon. And, you know, that garden's not there anymore, and she and Thomas are divorced, so.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, you know, he has.

[V. Spear]

I think things happen, and now they're gonna pave over it because Melania hates it and because the grass gets wet and he wants it to look more like Mar A Lago's terrace. So he could put, like, probably some lunch tables out there he could sell. I mean, who knows?

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. Sponsored by Pepsi.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

You know, is Pepsi gonna get the contract for the White House, or will it be Coca Cola?

[V. Spear]

Oh, it'll be Diet Coke.

[Sammy Sage]

Oh, right. Obviously. Duh.

[V. Spear]

Couple other hot things that happened this week. One of them being that Chuck Schumer might be my vote for, like, dulu. Girl of the week. Okay. Maybe Girl of the month. He. I don't know how he continues to hold on to the idea that he is the leader other than and name and just doubling down and tripling down and now saying he's going to make Donald Trump the quickest lame duck president in the history of the world. I'm like, chuck, you already voted for the thing, my boy. Like, you got to pass it on.

[Sammy Sage]

I actually. I don't remember if we've ever discussed this on here, if it didn't make it into one of these episodes, but I don't think the problem with Chuck Schumer was necessarily his decision to not shut down the government so much as it was the manner in which he approached that entire situation. And Every situation since. And his general viewpoint on things, because he was on Chris Hayes last week, and basically one of the, you know, big headlines was that Chuck Schumer does not feel that the situation is quite as dire as maybe a lot of other Americans do. Perhaps the people who are getting off their asses and attending town halls and protests and rallies, who are really concerned. And I understand if Chuck has a different viewpoint on this, but then you shouldn't be the leader because you're. You can't. The thing is, it would be one thing if he could make a case for why he believes this and that there was actually a strong contingent of people who were like, actually, no, like, you're right, these other people are overreacting. But I don't see that as a contingent that he's representing. I don't hear an argument he's making for why it's actually okay and why the guardrails are holding. That's substantive. And we talk more about this with Katie Fang later in this episode. But I just think that if he can't put up the fight that people are demanding, then you can't be the leader. No one's saying you have to resign from the Senate. Just why are you in this leadership position and why do you want it anyway?

[V. Spear]

I agree. I think it's. New York is in a rough spot across the whole spectrum right now when it comes to men who don't take no for an answer and who live in delusion running for office. And I think that that is no better exemplified than the New York City mayor's race. Andrew Cuomo is another one of these people who does what he believes is right, not necessarily what the constituents believe is right. And then he sort of has like, a little. A little Trump to him, where he's like, no, your job as elected officials is to execute my vision for the city because I'm the governor and you're all the state senators and whatever else. Andrew Cuomo, for those of you who live in New York who are listening and might be thinking, wow, his, like, millions of dollars in commercials and stuff are making him look like, okay, remember that? This man has been in bed with Elon Musk as governor, he greenlit $959 million in state subsidies that benefited a solar panel company that was controlled by Musk's family. This was all later bought by Tesla, and the spending fell way short on economic development promises. It did not bring the jobs to South Buffalo that it was supposed to. And then Musk just kind of like, ran away with the money. So I am not trusting Cuomo to come back in, especially when states rights are so important and the New York City mayor isn't like a regular mayor. It's like a very powerful mayor's position. It's almost like governor of its own little state in many ways. And think that he wouldn't be sort of willing to be in bed with Trump and Musk and let them do some stuff. And I just don't want to deal with him.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, I do want to say that when he did make that deal with Elon Musk, we were looking at a different Elon Musk, we're looking at a different Tesla, we're looking at a different time in general. I don't think that that is necessarily like the. Not the, you know, the deal breaker for Cuomo. And I think Cuomo is actually going to win because I do. I think that he's seen, you know, this is the name recognition game. So it's either. I don't think people will reelect Eric Adams, and the other name that's well known is Andrew Cuomo. And I think that people are. Will be willing to overlook those blights against him. And I think that they are. They will see him and they will see someone who fought in the first administration and they're going to remember his press conferences during COVID And how was that was like the only effective moment of communication and unity that the country really had at a very important time. And I think they're going to pick him.

[V. Spear]

I wonder how that'll go for Kathy Hochul. Right. So she used to be under Cuomo and now she'll be the governor and he'll be the mayor of New York. It's good.

[Sammy Sage]

I think it'll go well for her because. Yeah, I do. Why would it go poorly? She's not the reason that he wasn't governor anymore. I think it's probably good they have a working relationship.

[V. Spear]

How? I tell you, I'll never vote for a Clinton or a Kennedy. I just don't like political families that continue to, like, get involved. It's not my fave.

[Sammy Sage]

I don't either, but we're not New York City voters, so doesn't really matter.

[V. Spear]

Well, if you are a New York City voter, vote for that socialist kid. I like him. So moving on, when we get back, we will talk all about more things that are going crazy in America right now with our bestie, Katie Fang. Unfortunately, we didn't have time to ask her her thoughts on Usha Bance getting a state Sponsored sightseeing tour of Greenland. But perhaps we'll have more on that next week. Hi, friends, and welcome back. We are here with a special friend, Katie Feng, my personal favorite MSNBC host. I won't make Sammy say which one her favorite is, but it's also, I can think. Welcome. What's going on, girlfriend? How are you?

[Katie Fang]

That's like asking somebody who their favorite Real Housewife is. I mean, it's, it's kind of a challenge.

[Sammy Sage]

I mean, favorite is is tough in that context because I, as I like to say, there are no heroes on reality tv. There's only villains that you like.

[Katie Fang]

I'm ready for my villains era. Let it rip. I'm ready.

[Sammy Sage]

We have so much to talk about just in a quick and just in a little amount of time. But Katie is a legal analyst, famously, and a former trial lawyer. So we want to talk about what's happening on the legal front within the Trump administration and the ways that they are acting towards the legal community in particular. And a name that I think we've been hearing a little bit about is Paul Weiss, who sounds like it should be the name of one of my Jewish friends, dads, but is actually a very large famous law firm and now seems like one of Donald Trump's new public enemies. So can you explain what, explain what happened here? Why is Paul Weiss, this law firm, suddenly relevant?

[Katie Fang]

Yeah. So Paul Weiss is not a person, although it is the last names of people. It's Paul Weiss, Rifkin, et al. And it's a law firm. And it's not just any law firm, because context is always key. It is a mega law firm, international presence, and one of those law firms where they bill you like $2,000 an hour.

[V. Spear]

Right.

[Katie Fang]

I mean, when you go to that law firm, you expect elite representation. But the reason why those of you that are listening and watching may be saying, well, why do I care? Or why am I suddenly inundated with news about Paul Weiss is because it is one of three law firms, although now it's down to two. But there were three executive orders from Donald Trump that targeted private law firms. One, the first was Covington and Burling because of their affiliation with former special counsel Jack Smith. The second is a law firm named Perkins Coie because of the work they've done for Hillary Clinton and other members of the Democratic Party. A footnote to Perkins Coie is a very good trial lawyer and election law expert named Mark Elias. He is somebody that we've heard about a lot, and he's been fighting the good fight in court. And he was a partner at Perkins Coie. And then there were, there was this third order guys, which was against Paul Weiss, the law firm, until, until they reached a deal with Donald Trump. And it was secured in this White House meeting between the managing partner of Paul Weiss and Donald Trump. And then in disagreement, suddenly, now that executive order has been withdrawn.

[V. Spear]

Dude, what happened? If we don't negotiate with terrorists, all of a sudden, we're negotiating everything, throwing it all away, capitulating.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, the United. That's the United States government's policy technically. And that complicates things. Wait, so when you say they reached an agreement, do we know what was in this agreement?

[Katie Fang]

So it depends on who you talk to. Right. So the managing partner sends out this email to the entirety of the law firm to explain that it's reached this agreement, quote, successfully to be able to get this executive order withdrawn. But then Donald Trump pushes out on Truth Social the terms of the agreement. And according to people that know kind of the inside baseball of how this negotiation took place, apparently Trump added his own kind of portions to this agreement about which perhaps Paul Weiss didn't agree. But notably, the stuff that we all know is in agreement, Paul Weiss is actually going to have outside DEI experts to come into the firm to review a complete audit of their employment practices to make sure that they're not continuing harmful DEI policies. They're also going to do $40 million worth of pro bono legal services in order to support the administration's initiative or mutually agreed upon projects. And I did a reel about this. And look, some of the projects of the Trump administration are great. Combating anti Semitism, helping our nation's veterans, all of the things are great. But we all know that the extortionate level of how this Trump administration works is going to be they're going to dispatch this powerhouse mega law firm to provide all of these, quote, pro bono legal services, but they're going to be in support of what things that are probably going to hurt a lot of us as Americans, those of us that believe in democracy are going to be on the receiving end of seeing these lawyers on the other side. And then we also have this thing which kind of burned me as well, which is there is this former partner named Mark Pomerantz who actually worked at the Manhattan DA's office briefly. He helped in the investigation of Donald Trump and his corrupt business practices. Well, according to Donald Trump, the law firm Paul Weiss said that that work that Mark Pomerantz did to nail down the illegality of Donald Trump was, quote, wrong. Now, that's where the law firm says, we don't remember kind of that part of the agreement, but we all know to the point of V here, right, when you negotiate with the terrorists, all deals are off. Right? There's no good faith negotiations here. So it shocks me the stupidity of entering into any type of agreement with something like Donald Trump, because who the hell is going to enforce the terms? It's going to be one handed, heavy handed. We'll only be on one side.

[Sammy Sage]

Right. And I understand that the administration is offering meetings with the president for, in exchange for $5 million, $1 million, $5 million, depends what level of meeting I guess you want. Did the managing partner of Paul Weiss pay to meet with Donald Trump to discuss this agreement or was it, or do we know if he did?

[Katie Fang]

So there's no reporting on whether or not he paid. The reporting reflects that it was not a paid meeting, that it was actually facilitated by people that were close to the Trump administration. But that's also another wrinkle. So in the email that was sent out by this managing partner at Paul Weiss to the firm, firmwise, it actually said the following. And this is the part that really kind of cut me. It said, we were hoping to fight against the Trump administration. We saw what happened to the other law firms that were targeted, but nobody stood up to help. Now, Perkins Coie has sued with the help of another big law firm called Williams and Connolly that's representing Perkins Coie. They sued the Trump administration. So it's a little empty to say that nobody stood up to help. But it is kind of the truth, though, guys, right? This capitulation in advance is not just limited to foreign leaders. It's not just limited to members of Congress. We're seeing it now happen in private enterprise. We're seeing it happen with businesses. We've seen it happen with Zuckerberg and Bezos and others. And I think the reason why this is the most chilling of all of it, though, is you don't have to buy Amazon, you don't have to support Tesla, whatever, but the law firms and the judicial system is supposed to be where we can fight these battles and have it be a level playing field. And we're supposed to be able to have the impartiality kind of cloak us in the protection of that concept. So when you see law firms that have the power, the ability and the wherewithal to stand up to somebody like Donald Trump and his administration and they fall, you're kind of worried you're going to see, like, a domino effect thereafter.

[Sammy Sage]

Is there a reason why he is motive? He was motivated particularly to pick Paul Weiss, that firm. And why no other firms came to the defense of Paul Weiss? Like, how is this different from what they did with Perkins Coey? Or is that the exact same thing?

[Katie Fang]

So the language of the executive orders were almost identical, except for the kind of factual background at the beginning that talked about why Trump has decided this law firm is its enemy. Enemy. It's his enemy. Paul Weiss. The reason why Paul Weiss actually was the target of Trump's ire because he actually had the gall to do a pro bono legal representation of a traditional black church that was the target of the Proud Boys ripping the Black Lives Matter flag off. And I actually had the preacher, the reverend from that church on my show a few weeks ago. And in the end, Proud Boys defaulted on the judgment. So the church actually owns the copyright in the name of any merchandise and stuff that. And so God forbid, Paul Weiss take on, you know, this pro bono legal representation of these black, you know, members of this congregation. But in addition, though, Sammy, it also includes the fact that Paul Weiss has done election integrity representation. Again, I know people, you know, like Mark Elias at Perkins Coie, for example, like, you have lawyers that are now moved on in their legal professions or maybe still are at these law firms, and because they've done something to piss off Donald Trump, now they're a target. And then, you know that after this Paul Weiss situation just a few days ago, now Donald Trump has told his Attorney General, Pam Bondi, to now investigate any law firms and lawyers that have done anything to oppose administration efforts over the past few years. So it's not even just limited to right now. They want to wind back the hands of time and see people that have done something that, according to Donald Trump, has been on the opposing ends of him. And so it's just to cow people into submission. It's to put people in a state of terror so that they don't have the strength and the courage to say, not on my watch. But for those of us that say that, this is a place, again, where you're supposed to have impartial judicial action. We need to make sure that we stand up, because it's gonna be one of the few places where his powers are gonna be kept in check.

[V. Spear]

It is so spooky. I mean, even thinking about that, there's allegedly some list of journalists out there that he wanted to be investigated for speaking out against him, and now lawyers speaking out against him. Sammy was just in Paris and I'm like, how was it coming through immigration for like an American citizen? It's like very spooky time out there. Do you worry at all that, like if lawyers are now, journalists will be next? I mean, one thing I love about you is that you introduce him as convicted felon every time you talk about him. Do you think that they'll be, that'll be kind of where he goes next or what?

[Katie Fang]

He's already going there. I mean, he's, he's already, we're already there. That I don't know if people realize this. And that's the part that kind of is the stomach churning part. We're already there. It is not the Chuck Schumer. We're getting there, we're almost there. We're flirting with being there. We're full on there. And how do we know? Well, people that have contrary and opposing views to Trump and the administration are getting seized and detained. They are being held in custody, to your point, Sam, and going in and out of border protection, they're getting their cell phones searched and seized. And I mean, it's things like that that are happening. And so people are worried because their social media is public. And if your social media is public and they perceive you as being a, quote, enemy of the state, it's very much a dictatorial, autocratic regime concept. Let's silence any dissonance, let's silence any opposition and let's make it all just a government run or state run operation where all you hear is propaganda.

[Sammy Sage]

I was listening to Maria, Maria Raisa on Jon Stewart's the Weekly show podcast. And what she was saying is that she had experienced this in the Philippines and that it was like a six month situation and that it between Duterte taking power and the judicial system, you know, really overtaking the judicial system. And what he's doing now is part of it. And I think people maybe think, think because when we think about authoritarianism, we think about it in the past and we think, oh, in 1933 this happened and this thing changed. But things don't just change one day. It's not like it all shuts off, you know, it, it just kind of like multiple things happen over time and it changes people's behavior too. And I think that that's also like a piece of it. Like, even if you don't think you're, quote, submitting in advance, the fact that it's on the collective mind means that people are thinking more carefully about the way that they'll say things or, you know, and then you have corporations who are making decisions about what they're, what they're going to do based on how they think the administration will react to it. So it's like not just a one day, you know, it's done.

[Katie Fang]

The perfect example of that is the success of Mitch McConnell, the Federalist Society, dark money operations, inclusive of people like Leonard Leo, etc. Basically paving the way for the judiciary to be stacked on a federal basis to eventually get people that are ascending to levels like the Supreme Court of the United States. So take a second and think about that. These are lifetime appointments, right? So the turnover rate for a federal judge is not going to be as often as a state court judge, etc. But when you have these decades long, and that's why I think that the Democrats have kind of underestimated traditionally kind of the long game that's been played by the Republicans. In this instance. There was a reason why the Biden administration took such pride in the number of judicial appointments it did on the federal bench during the Biden administration. Because these are judges that are currently most, not all the outliers are the ones that are supporting Trump, but these are the judges that are standing their ground and holding the line and saying, you can't do this, Donald Trump. And they're entering temporary restraining orders. They're saying, you can't take people and squirrel them away in the dead of night and ship them off to El Salvador. You can't do that. And I think that's important for people to see that it wasn't an overnight process, just like Dobbs was not an overnight process. The erosion of reproductive rights post Roe was not something that happened overnight. And so people need to pay attention, and not only when it impacts them, but because everything impacts you, whether you like it or not. And so I think when you see the fact that we're having, again, the judicial system being that line in the sand, and you're seeing the judges facing the ire, by the way, as well, of Trump, they're calling for the impeachment of that judge who's dealing with the Alien Enemies act, who today just entered an order denying the attempts by the Trump administration to vacate his temporary restraining orders concerning those individuals that were deported under the Alien Enemies Act. So when you see other Republicans saying, we're going to ignore these judicial orders, that's when you know that the rule of law is, to use a Sammy thing is at the guillotine now, right? Like, and people have to protect the rule of Law. And you can do that. You don't have to be a lawyer. You don't have to be a lawyer. You can protect the role of law by believing in the institutions and believing that the norms are still standing. True.

[Sammy Sage]

You know, speaking of the guillotine, one longer conversation I did get into when I was in Paris was we were talking about politics and this guy said, well, our, our leaders are a little more afraid to get out of line because we have been known to take their heads. So it was just an interesting.

[V. Spear]

Of the Olympics. The opening of the Olympics was like, hey, remember.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes. Just one more, one more quick question regarding the temporary restraining orders. And you know these headlines that say, judge blocks such and such thing. It says that, but, like, are in, in effect, people who, you know, it said the federal judge said they can't just fire employees. Like, are those employees getting their jobs back? Is the money now coming through that they weren't allowed to stop? You know, how do you put that toothpaste back in the tube, so to speak?

[Katie Fang]

So it's kind of individual, agency and department specific in terms of how that toothpaste goes back in. But for some, for example, like in the Veterans Affairs Department or the Department of Veterans affairs, some of them have been reinstated with back pay but told, don't go to work. So they technically have their titles back. They technically have their pay, they're made whole because the Trump administration did them dirty. But in the meantime, the services aren't being provided to veterans. So think about that, right? So you may have somebody who was working there, they were out of money, they got their money back, they're getting paid, but they're told, don't go to your position. And so the damage, there's like this collateral damage, consequential damage thing that's happening here, which is the people that need the help the most aren't getting it. And that's not just with Veterans affairs. It's with all these other federal agencies. So the judges are also saying this, too. And I want people to understand this as well. These are successes and victories, but they are temporary in nature. Because if the Trump administration, through DOGE and whatever bullshit they're doing, actually does the process correctly, it doesn't mean that these people will necessarily be able to go back to their jobs in the end. There is a process to all. I think I heard about a week ago the following statement, which I think is true. And I want to. I hope I do attribution correctly, because I think it was Ezra Klein, but it was if you want to be efficient, you gotta have a plan. Though this concept of efficiency with no plan insight makes no sense. The flash and burn that's happening doesn't make any sense. From my perspective though, as a trial lawyer and somebody who's just grown up in the law, it not only has to make sense, but it has to be legal. So not only does it have to be a logic to what you're doing, but it has to be legal at the same time. And that's why I'm grateful that we do have this massive amount of litigation. At last count, it was more than 120 lawsuits that the Trump administration was facing because of the wrong that it's doing. But then you get wackadoo shit like him appointing Alina Hawa to be the interim U.S. attorney in Jersey. Stuff like that happens and you have to ask yourself, what kind of damage is she gonna do before she's reined in and put into check? And so it's like the kid putting their fingers in all the cracks in the dam, right? That's kind of what Americans, true Americans believing in democracy, are doing. But that's what we have to do.

[V. Spear]

Katie Fang, I love you so much. You scare me and also prepare me. And that's all that we can hope for.

[Katie Fang]

You got to manage people's expectations, right? I mean, I would never bullshit anybody. It does a disservice. So I'm grateful for your voices as well. These are the times when we realize who our community truly is. And that's when we all dig into our respective true assets and resources to be able to help each other.

[V. Spear]

Thank you so much for coming on and chatting with us. Yeah. Oh my God. Sammy, I know we just said goodbye, but we have to add something to the end of the episode here. This is unusual for us Fever dreamers, but as we were closing out, I happened to check my news alerts, and apparently the Trump administration accidentally included Jeffrey Goldberg, who is the editor of the Atlantic, on their top, top secret war plans for Yemen and the Houthis.

[Sammy Sage]

I'm confused. How did they accidentally add such an important person to their group chat? Is there a different Jeffrey that they meant to include that they accidentally typed in his name? Well, that's perhaps Jeffrey Goldstein, but I'm.

[V. Spear]

Also wondering, like, are we really doing foreign policy and top secret war planning on signal? Like, I know it's an encrypted chat, but I would think that, that the government would have something like more serious. It signals, not a skiff. I mean, the stuff they're saying in here is, like, really genuinely intense. Also, Trump is not on here in any capacity. It's J.D. vance, Marco Rubio, Mike Waltz, Pete Hegseth, and a couple other people that they're not saying exactly who Pete Hexeth is.

[Sammy Sage]

Typing very perfectly for someone who's not under the influence. I mean, this is kind of crazy, JD Vance saying at Pete Hegseth, if you think we should do it, let's go. I just hate bailing Europe out again. Let's just make sure our messaging is tight here and if there are things we can do up front to minimize risk to Saudi oil facilities, we should do it.

[V. Spear]

I know. And then Hegseth responds and is like, I also loathe the Europeans. They're pathetic. Like, this is crazy. They're playing like a Battleship game. I can't believe that J.D. vance and Pete Hegseth are planning essentially war with Yemen over a signal check chat and congratulating each other. They can't be this delusional.

[Sammy Sage]

This is worse than Rudy Giuliani level of texting. I don't understand how you accidentally add the editor of the Atlantic. I'm never getting over that part.

[V. Spear]

You have to imagine that Jeffrey from the Atlantic had to be like, you got to be kidding me. Is this a trap? Like, I would be afraid that I, I was like, being entrapped here to see if I was going to talk about it or something.

[Sammy Sage]

This article came out Monday the 24th, and this was about an event that happened on March 15th.

[V. Spear]

March, yes. And the text was March 11th. So I guess good on Jeffrey for maintaining OPSEC for these insane people and not publishing it sooner or whatever. But this ties to, Remember Trump did that terrible, like, press photo op where he's like, holding his belt in his little Trump polo with his little. He has like an autographed. His autograph on his own hat. And he was like, President Trump overseeing the killing of an ISIS leader. You've seen the picture?

[Sammy Sage]

Yes, I, you know, it's so hard to remember all of these dramatic moments. I do want to say that there's also a screenshot from after they did the strike. It's called. First of all, this chat is called Houthi PC Small Group. And right after they do the. The strike, they're cheering each other on. Good job, Pete. And your team. The team in Mal did a great job as well. Fist bump, flag fire, emoji.

[V. Spear]

Oh, my gosh, you guys. Anyway, we had to tackle. Yeah, great work, you freaks. We just had to, like, tack this on to the end, because I know everybody's gonna be talking about it. We record on Monday. This will come out Tuesday. I'm sure more will be heard on this. But geez, you know, for them wanting to shut down TikTok because they're stealing our data and potentially exposing Americans to all kinds of stuff, there's not a lot of operational security happening in the highest levels of government anyway. So maybe April 5th will come and go without a TikTok ban again. Maybe we'll continue operating illegally as we continue to do our war plans on Signal America. Are we great?

[Sammy Sage]

Are we great yet?

[V. Spear]

All right. What a fun episode, huh? We got to talk about all kinds of things. We did a call for Ketamine users. Remember to email us at american fever dreamtches.com if you have insight as to how these people are micro dosing. I'm very fascinated. Not that I want to do it. I just need to understand my enemy's frame of mind.

[Sammy Sage]

I think the most important thing is that we draw the distinction between microdosing and whatever else is going on here because there's degrees. This is a spectrum. So please let us know what you think. I don't know nearly enough about it, but I'm sure there's some good Reddit edits. Check that out.

[V. Spear]

Awesome.

[Sammy Sage]

Until next time I read.

[V. Spear]

It spooks me out, man. Until next time. I'm Vspier.

[Sammy Sage]

And I'm Sammy Sage.

[V. Spear]

And this is American Fever Dream. Good night.