From Bathtub HRT to Latkes: Your Questions Answered

Summary

American Fever Dream: Episode Summary Episode Title: From Bathtub HRT to Latkes: Your Questions Answered
Release Date: December 31, 2024
Hosts: Bea Speer and Sammy Sage
Presented by: Betches Media

---

Introduction: Embracing the Holidays with Humor and Insight

In the festive episode titled "From Bathtub HRT to Latkes: Your Questions Answered," hosts Bea Speer and Sammy Sage of American Fever Dream delve into a variety of listener-submitted questions, blending political discourse with lighthearted conversations about holiday traditions. Recorded ahead of the holiday rush on December 2nd, the episode promises engaging discussions to accompany listeners during their travels and family gatherings.

1. Navigating Immigration and Denaturalization Fears

Listener Email from Candace (00:44):
Candace shares a troubling scenario involving her Guatemalan friend whose U.S. citizenship was revoked due to retroactive legal changes. This situation raises fears about the Trump administration's potential for mass deportations and denaturalizations.

Bea Speer emphasizes the gravity of the issue:
"People want to oversimplify things and say, well, if folks just came here the right way, then they wouldn't have any problems. And, in fact, that's not true." (02:11)
She discusses the drastic increase in denaturalizations under Trump, highlighting that before his presidency, there were only 11 cases in two decades, which surged to over 1,300 under his administration.

Sammy Sage adds context by referencing Project 2025, an initiative aimed at denaturalizing individuals:
"Denaturalization is in Project 2025. So immigration lawyer, that is." (05:55)

Bea advises listeners to consult immigration lawyers and prepare for the unpredictability of immigration laws:
"They are going to reinterpret what a valid marriage is... try to make the next four years, or however long it is, as uncomplicated and safe for yourself as you can." (08:58)

2. Protecting Trans and Non-Binary Individuals Under New Regimes

Listener Email (09:04):
A listener inquires about safety strategies for non-binary individuals who may not identify as trans, expressing concerns about labeling gender on official documents.

Bea Speer responds with practical advice:
"I identify as female on all government and medical documents because I have been able to put in my mind that it's just paperwork and that it would be the most efficient and simple way... to identify my makeup, my whatever you wanna know in the event of an emergency." (09:56)

She encourages finding local community support and emphasizes the importance of offline safety measures:
"Meet them online, you can get offline. Yeah. And really vet the online space you're going to so that you can get honey trapped into some kind of like, hey, we're doing this big HRT thing and then you show up and it's the fucking Nazis or something." (13:43)

Sammy Sage underscores the necessity of personal protections and community solidarity:
"There's no silver bullet because he is a stochastic terrorist... you have to kind of create these in person circumstances that are not online that you don't get famous off of or whatever and sort of like go back to your local as much as you can." (07:39)

3. Understanding Populism in the Modern Context

Listener Email (21:05):
A listener expresses appreciation for the podcast and seeks clarification on whether contemporary populism aligns with historical discussions around oligarchy and the bourgeoisie.

Bea Speer draws parallels between past and present populist movements:
"I think this is spiritually the same kind of conversation. I do think it just sort of looks different in every era..." (24:43)

She explains how modern definitions of the working class have blurred, making it harder to distinguish between different socioeconomic statuses and how populist rhetoric targets those not in the upper echelon:
"The distinction between working class and elite as it used to be, we're much closer together in the past rather than now." (25:07)

Sammy Sage expands on the complexities of class identity:
"We're not, you know, it's not communism where everybody's gonna make $10 an hour, period, that's the end. But it's like everybody in a country as wealthy as ours, with as much opportunity as ours should be able to say, you know what." (33:31)

4. Personal Stories: The Intersection of Privilege and Hard Work

Throughout the discussion, both hosts share personal anecdotes to illustrate the nuanced relationship between privilege and socioeconomic status.

Bea Speer recounts her family's immigrant background and the struggle for assimilation:
"My family tried to attain whiteness... If you can assimilate, you can succeed." (29:32)

Sammy Sage reflects on his own heritage, highlighting how systemic advantages have paved his way:
"My grandfather fought in the Korean War. So he got to take advantage of the GI Bill... but also I grew up in his home. And that home was in a very, very good school district." (31:12)

Bea discusses the impact of these systemic benefits on opportunities and societal perceptions:
"We're gonna have to build safety in community locally... 'Cause that is my favorite." (08:58)

5. Listener Appreciation and Unique New Year's Celebrations

Listener Email from a Shrimp Drop Enthusiast (39:27):
A listener shares their admiration for Amelia Island in Northeast Florida, which hosts a unique New Year's Eve shrimp drop. The event features a giant lighted shrimp hoisted into the sky and dropped at 7 PM, allowing families to celebrate without staying up late. Accompanied by food vendors and fireworks, it epitomizes the listener's dream of an early, family-friendly celebration.

Bea Speer humorously critiques the idea's cultural implications:
"It's a little anti Semitic on kosher, right?... little pork sandwiches." (39:50)

Sammy Sage adds a playful twist to the concept:
"A salmon drop? Tuna drop? No, we can't do a tuna drop or a salmon drop because the orcas are wearing salmon as hats again." (40:06)

6. Final Thoughts: Emphasizing Community and Preparedness

As the episode wraps up, Bea and Sammy reiterate the importance of community support and staying informed. They encourage listeners to continue sending emails and engage with the podcast's content, promising future episodes that tackle pressing issues with the same blend of humor and depth.

Bea Speer concludes with heartfelt gratitude:
"Thank you for giving us your time and attention. It truly is an honor to spend this time with you guys. Until next time, I'm Vitaspear Sage and this is American Fever Dream." (40:21)

Sammy Sage echoes the sentiment, inviting listeners to stay connected:
"Good night. American Fever Dream is produced and edited by Samantha Gatzick... send us your emails to American Feverdreams.com." (40:28)

---

Key Takeaways:

• Immigration Concerns: The Trump administration's policies have significantly increased denaturalizations, creating fear among naturalized citizens. Consulting immigration lawyers and staying informed are crucial steps for those affected.

• Trans and Non-Binary Safety: Identifying gender on official documents can have safety implications under new political climates. Building local support networks and maintaining secrecy about personal identities are recommended strategies.

• Populism Today vs. Past: Modern populism shares roots with historical class struggles but manifests differently due to the complexities of contemporary socioeconomic statuses. The erosion of clear class distinctions complicates political dialogues.

• Privilege and Opportunity: Systemic privileges, even among those who work hard, play a significant role in shaping individual success. Acknowledging and addressing these disparities is essential for fostering societal equity.

• Community Support: Engaging with local communities and maintaining personal safety measures are vital in navigating the challenges posed by shifting political landscapes.

American Fever Dream continues to serve as a beacon for listeners seeking a balance of humor, perspective, and actionable insights amid America's chaotic political and cultural environment.

Transcript

[Sammy Sage]

Have you ever spotted McDonald's hot crispy fries right as they're being scooped into the carton? And time just stands still?

[Bea Speer]

Bada ba ba ba. Rise and shine, Fever dreamers. Look alive, my friends. I'm Bea Speer.

[Sammy Sage]

And I'm Sammy Sage.

[Bea Speer]

And this is American Fever Dream, presented by Betches News, where we explore the.

[Sammy Sage]

Absurdities and oddities of our uniquely American experience.

[Bea Speer]

Hey O. Welcome to the show.

[Sammy Sage]

We are recording this on December 2nd to pre bank some episodes for the holidays. Because we want you to have some good listening for when you are traveling.

[Bea Speer]

Taking that sleigh ride to grandma's house.

[Sammy Sage]

Avoiding your family, whatever you might be doing. You're listening to something very important.

[Bea Speer]

Other Jewish holiday songs. You know, like how we have like dashing through the snow in a one horse open sleigh.

[Sammy Sage]

There's dreidel, dreidel, dreidel.

[Bea Speer]

If you're spinning the dreidel right now, I hope you're listening.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, there's dreidel, dreidel. There's, you know, Eight Crazy Nights. Adam Sandler.

[Bea Speer]

We have pretty cool songs for our holidays. But y'all have better food. I think you do. Yeah. Those little hamantaschen cookies. I fucking love those.

[Sammy Sage]

Those are perfect.

[Bea Speer]

Poppy seed roll. So delicious. Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Latkes.

[Bea Speer]

Who doesn't love a latke?

[Sammy Sage]

Okay. Latkes are the best. I will say latkes. Hanukkah is the best.

[Bea Speer]

The little smoked trout and all that business. Amazing.

[Sammy Sage]

Oh, like that's like all year round. That's just.

[Bea Speer]

I'm just saying Jewish people have delicious foods.

[Sammy Sage]

We appreciate you saying that.

[Bea Speer]

We have good stuff. It's all like fatty kind of like stuff, though. I feel like I eat Jewish food and I feel like, good about myself. It's like, good for your gut health. I eat like. No, it's not my Catholic holiday food.

[Sammy Sage]

Have you had matzah?

[Bea Speer]

Yes. Matzo ball soup. And then I go to like my thing and it's like fucking fire ass. Horseradish infested cocktail sauce with shrimp.

[Sammy Sage]

We have horseradish on Passover specifically. Not something bad you wouldn't have because it's for the same.

[Bea Speer]

It's more mild, delicious food. You get the honey apple thing. You get the honey apple thing.

[Sammy Sage]

You're picking out like the one good thing from every holiday.

[Bea Speer]

But when most of the fish on New Year's Eve. I don't know. My grandma used to eat that. Is that good? I don't know. Used to have to get it for her. She's not even Jewish. She just, you know, she was covering all her bases.

[Sammy Sage]

I happen to like a filted fish. It's just.

[Bea Speer]

She liked it. She used to have it on New Year. She'd have it on New Year's Eve. I was like, why? She's like, I don't know.

[Sammy Sage]

That is a strange tradition.

[Bea Speer]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Is your grandmother a secret Jew?

[Bea Speer]

She might be. I mean, she's romaine, so I feel like the Romani and the Jews were, like, pretty tight pals back in the day. So it must be.

[Sammy Sage]

Samantha is saying noodle kugel.

[Bea Speer]

Oh, that's a good one.

[Sammy Sage]

Noodle kugel. Yeah. I'm really more of a potato kugel gal.

[Bea Speer]

Oh.

[Sammy Sage]

I'm actually pretty good at cooking the Jewish food, if I say so myself, particularly potato kugel and latkes. I should make you some latkes sometime.

[Bea Speer]

I would love that.

[Sammy Sage]

You need to eat them fresh, like, the minute I finish making them.

[Bea Speer]

So good. I'm staying at your house. Staying at Sammy's house is my favorite. It's like sleepover for besties.

[Sammy Sage]

It's so fun.

[Bea Speer]

And I get to hang with Avi. I love Sammy's husband. Avi is my favorite guy. Well, today we're gonna do something a little different because we are recording this ahead of time. And one of the things we love the most is that you guys actually do write us emails, and we get to chat with you offline. And so today we're gonna go through Santa's mailbag to the North Pole and read some of your letters and answer your questions.

[Sammy Sage]

Your emails are amazing. If you have not emailed us yet and you want to email americanfeverdreamches.com and we will do our best to. We try to read more, but then we end up running out of time with our regular episodes. So that's why we're doing this all in one. So first up, here we go.

[Bea Speer]

This one is from Candace, and she says, hi. I love the pod. Truly enjoy your knowledge and deep dive into things. I want to share a situation that happened to my friend. She was granted US citizenship as a Guatemalan in the 2000s, went to college here, has been working here since her sister lost her passport. When she went to get a new one, they looked at how she gained citizenship and decided that she should not have been approved based on the laws at that time. So they revoked her citizenship immediately. My friend had to reapply for citizenship. She's even married to a US Citizen and has two children with them. So hopefully it works out for her. But honestly, I never knew that they could retroactively change this, and it makes me so afraid from what antics are coming now. This I picked out because I also have family from Guatemala. And people want to oversimplify things and say, well, if folks just came here the right way, then they wouldn't have any problems. And, in fact, that's not true. There have been periods of time throughout history where Guatemalans or Cubans or different people have had different standards for attaining citizenship. We had the DACA protections for some people, and they weren't for other people. And so it is super scary what's going on with Trump and saying he's just gonna do mass deportations, or he's gonna be looking at the way people attained naturalization and potentially denaturalizing people. In the history of America, up until Trump became president, the first time, the last, let's say, like 20 years before he became president, there were 11 denaturalizations. And when Trump came into office, he did over 1300. So this is something that he does like to do. He will find a mistake in somebody's paperwork, or he will just try to shake down and harass people, and then he'll denaturalize them and have them deported. And that is very scary. So my advice to your friend and to everyone else is to reach out to an immigration lawyer. Even if you think you did it the right way, there is no such thing as, you know, you should check your list twice, like Santa Claus, I guess, because there is going to be all kinds of weirdness with the way that they react, interpret immigration laws to disqualify certain people's citizenship path. They're going to disqualify the DACA kids, they've said, who have been formally protected. When I say kids, the DACA kids are, like, in their 20s and 30s now. They're not children anymore.

[Sammy Sage]

Also, denaturalization is in Project 2025.

[Bea Speer]

Yes.

[Sammy Sage]

So immigration lawyer, that is.

[Bea Speer]

That is going to become a thing. And certainly we'll try to keep getting general information for you guys on this. We'll have an immigration lawyer on, if we haven't already. It's like what they're going to do with gay marriage. They're going to ever be able to take away my gay marriage or my marriage certificate, because that is an event that has already happened. What we know they're going to do is reinterpret what a valid marriage is. Now, once they pass this bill that defines sex as just male or female and then defines marriage as just a male or female you know, it'll take about a year, year and a half for this to get done. But it will get done. And then my marriage will simply no longer meet the burden of proof to be recognized by the federal government anymore. And that's why I've had to go through the nine documents. And we have a special episode called Nine Documents now that will not be out yet because this is something that lawyers from Lambda Legal and marriage experts, family lawyer experts, are putting together. The episode will be called Nine Documents, and we're gonna have it for you just as quickly as we can. And what it is, is those nine documents create a marriage. They create the 1138 rights that you get when you get married, but as a domestic partnership, essentially so that you can protect your marriage. So we have that coming for you. Same with the immigration thing. There is no silver bullet because he is a stochastic terrorist, which just means a random terrorist. And so anybody who is worried about immigration, even if you're from Canada, we've had some people ask me, well, my mother was from a reservation on Canada, came to the United States, has lived here. Could she potentially be deported back to the res in Canada? Maybe you're gonna have to get those one offs kind of looked at by an expert. But we'll try to get you as much general information as possible.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, I just wanna add, I had that conversation with Rhody Glass, the Holocaust survivor on the show. And she talks. If you haven't listened to that episode, she talks a lot about how her family was able to basically save themselves through having documents buttoned up in certain ways. And like you said, there's no silver bullet, but there are workarounds and there are things you can do to try to protect yourself, to slow down issues by time, get yourself standing in certain cases where that you can ultimately challenge certain things. So it all kind of comes down to these, like, personal protections that people take.

[Bea Speer]

It's gallows humor in some way when they say, we're so close to show me your papers. We are in show me your papers. We are in that show me your papers situation. And Natalie and I have it right by the door. It's in the car. It's everywhere, because you never know when you're gonna need them. And it's just a certified copy of the nine documents that give us the domestic partnership that would allow me to visit her in the hospital, make medical decisions for her own property together, information about our revocable trust, our adoption stuff, all that kind of stuff. And it's just where we are. We're not happy about it, but I refuse to fall into despair about it. We will just be prepared.

[Sammy Sage]

We're doing something like Michelle Obama said.

[Bea Speer]

Yeah. What do we got next?

[Sammy Sage]

Hi, friends. I am listening to the latest episode of American Fever Dream where you're discussing ways for trans people to stay safe under the new regime. So we're coming back to another protective question. I was wondering if the same things apply to non binary people who don't necessarily identify as trans. I am an assigned female at birth white person who's femme presenting, and I don't really identify with any gender. So when I'm asked to label my gender in some official way, for example, on intake forms for doctors, I usually pick non binary. Now, I realize I have a lot of privilege being white and presenting as my gender assigned at birth, so this may not particularly apply to me. But do you think people should avoid identifying as non binary as a way to protect themselves? Thank you so much for all you do. Also, thanks for the Missouri shout out. We need all the love we can get.

[Bea Speer]

I love Missouri. The Show Me state.

[Sammy Sage]

Missouri has it all. Missouri is a microcosm of America. Just one group.

[Bea Speer]

I can tell you I identify as female on all government and medical documents because I have been able to put in my mind that it's just paperwork and that it would be the most efficient and simple way in an emergency for a doctor to identify my makeup, my whatever you wanna know in the event of an emergency. And I don't trust the government. So I never went and got that X marker because I thought, you know, let's let this go for a certain number of years before I go and do it for myself. My gramps used to say, you don't gotta be first, you don't gotta be last. Just gotta run middle of the pack. I love a C student. Don't put too much into it, okay? Cs get diplomas too. And so for me, that's been what I have been able to do. I certainly can't speak to you and nor would I advise anybody to go back in the closet or detransition or anything like that. I think you gotta be realistic about what safety means to you. And for me, I was able to separate from myself safety, efficiency, and not being on the radar of people by just identifying as female on all of those types of documents. And then of course, in my regular life, my wife treats me the way that I want her to. And like we use they them pronouns and I use she pronouns now too. But I think for folks who did get the X marker on, say, your passport or your driver's license or whatever, we can for sure bet that that will be going away. I don't think that opportunity will be extended to people in the future. And it is likely that you may need to have that updated. We don't know yet. But I would just start to mentally prepare yourself for the idea of what you put on. Paperwork does not define who you are. That's just for the paperwork. And you still get to be your own rainbow of a person and respected in the ways that you show up in your life. And it just is harder. And so don't make it hard. To struggle is not to present higher virtue. Okay. Try to make the next four years, or however long it is, as uncomplicated and safe for yourself as you can. And that's gonna be everybody's choice what that means to them.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, okay, well, how would you answer this if someone doesn't present the gender that's on there? Yeah, I think you're.

[Bea Speer]

I'm not gonna lie to you, you're gonna have a hard time. Right. Like, we know that trans people and people who don't pass have been always a big likely continue to be a target because this is the thing that they have created as the enemy that the whole right can unite around is these like couple thousand people who they've decided to blame for all of the world's problems. I think you're gonna have to, you know, kind of build safety in community locally. And I mean that. So seriously, we in Rochester have in person local groups. You learn about them through friends or family. You learn about them through flyers at the gay bars and gay safe spaces. And we don't talk about stuff. And because those meetups are important to be confidential and in person, because if you make a Facebook flyer saying, hey, we're doing a workshop on how to make your at home HRT and how to make at home supplements to continue your transition. I do think that there is surveillance that could certainly get you in trouble with that. So you do have to kind of create these in person circumstances that are not online that you don't get famous off of or whatever and sort of like go back to your local as much as you can. And so that is my. They exist. People have been doing at home HRT for decades, if not centuries. And you will be able to find that help. You need to start to get into community spaces in your area. And if there's not one in your area, then as Close as you can get. Because it won't be an online thing that we can do. There won't be some big online movement, it won't be public. The things that you need to do.

[Sammy Sage]

To keep yourself safe online, you can.

[Bea Speer]

Meet them online, you can get offline. Yeah. And really vet the online space you're going to so that you can get honey trapped into some kind of like, hey, we're doing this big HRT thing and then you show up and it's the fucking Nazis or something. Right. So again, be cautious. Know people in person for real. And that's how we're gonna get through a lot of this.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, definitely. And that is how people have gotten through times like this.

[Bea Speer]

Exactly.

[Sammy Sage]

Forever.

[Bea Speer]

And for kids, there was another email where somebody was asking me about their child being trans and having long hair. We've talked about protective styles. It doesn't necessarily mean throwing it in a ponytail and putting it up in a hat. It means, you know, when I was in second grade, there were kids who were getting their rat tails cut off because kids are mean and they will just cut your little long hair or whatever it is. And that could be incredibly gender dysphoric to a child if their hair were to be cut, even in a joking way, by someone at school, nevermind in a hateful way. We see the Crown act exists because people were cutting black children's hair at school. So, you know, put your child's hair in a protective style could mean Viking braids. Right. And you tell them, oh, those are your Viking braids. You're just changing what that society might think are acceptable ways of saying it. Instead of saying princess braids, you could have princess braids at home, but you have Viking braids at school, you're gonna have to do this shit.

[Sammy Sage]

It also depends on your where you are. Because different places in America have different, you know, styles or, you know, they're coded differently in terms of what's acceptable or what means you could use to blend in.

[Bea Speer]

And for whatever reason, the tomboy thing is back. This is something that the right has decided is just a tomboy thing. So if you have a child who presents more masculine, was born female or whatever and presents more masculine, likes playing with the boys, may have grown up to be a transgender male adult. It's the same thing. Just use the terms that keep your kids safe. Okay? None of us need to be a fucking hero right now. We're just trying to survive the day and protect them. And they keep. Well, you are being a hero as long as they have foundational safety at home to be their best self, and know that they're loved. They're gonna be fine. And then you do what you need to to protect them when they're at school or in public.

[Sammy Sage]

Also, you are being a hero. Being a hero doesn't always mean being.

[Bea Speer]

Really loud or contrarian.

[Sammy Sage]

I know we're all taught use your voice, but it's a different era now.

[Bea Speer]

Yeah.

[C]

Hello oversharing listeners. It's Dr. Naomi Bernstein with some exciting news. Starting January 13th, our Oversharing Calm the Down subscription is getting even better. Subscribers will get oversharing episodes a day early, plus additional exclusive bonus content on the 2nd and 4th Thursdays of each month. Here's what's new. One bonus episode with even more emails and advice, and another where we follow up with past email writers who could be you. While we won't be releasing new meditations in the new year, don't worry, all of our past meditations will stay available on the feed for you to enjoy anytime. Plus, we'll have a new Meditations playlist for our Spotify listeners. To sign up now, head to subscribe.betches.com and select Oversharing Calm the Fuck Down. We're so excited about creating this new bonus content, talking to more of you, hearing your stories, sharing some of our own, and reminding us all to calm the fuck down.

[Bea Speer]

This one is from M R and it says my query is if you guys are planning to speak on any action that the current administration, meaning the Biden administration, could take before the inauguration that might help impede DJ T. I've noticed and identified with people criticizing the old guard Democrats who are seen as just laying down and taking it when SCOTUS is basically given the President immunity. So why isn't Biden actually doing several things? Read Elizabeth Warren and Adam Schiff posting about DJT breaking the law already, but not seeming to do anything to hold him accountable. The right doesn't play by the rules, and the left seems dedicated to peaceful transfer and democracy for democracy's sake, when there is no indication that the incoming administration is going to do anything but shirk the rules in literally any instance where they can try to dismantle our democracy. Is there anything that Biden can do now? Well, he pardoned Hunter, so that was.

[Sammy Sage]

That was one thing.

[Bea Speer]

Biden cannot pack the court. That's not a real thing. That's a dream. He cannot step down to make Kamala Harris president for the day. He's not gonna do that and that.

[Sammy Sage]

Would not mean any like, okay so she does the peaceful transfer of power. So you get your aesthetic, first woman president, but it doesn't actually help people. At the end of the day, I.

[Bea Speer]

Think he could have been a little less jolly when he was meeting Trump in the Oval Office.

[Sammy Sage]

I mean, well, that ship has sailed. All of this. All of these things. And he said he's going to the inauguration. Okay, to answer the question, is there anything that they could do? Could and will are different and could plausibly do versus could do and seem absolutely, utterly insane are also different because they have not effectively laid the groundwork for any actions to actually, he. They've been in the guardrails of democracy. The only thing they have done is talk about the threats, but they did not really take any protective measures. And frankly, the fact that we're here shows that we've already been here for a while. Do you know what I mean? The fact that we are now in the situation where Trump is running, appointing these people and, you know, has these plans to dismantle the civil service and to take back the power of the purse from Congress, now that he's doing all these things, it just proves that it was an option for a bit now, because it's. It's happened.

[Bea Speer]

I think this is another example of, like I said, Real GS move in silence. I think that we have been Trump proofing for a long time. The Pentagon has been working on Trump proofing things. NATO has been working on Trump proofing things. He's gonna be able to do an awful lot of damage. There's not much that Biden could do right now other than potentially try to, like, somehow write an unbreakable law that we provide aid to Ukraine. He's sort of letting Ukraine shoot off rockets into Russia and shit. Now, the problem is, it's not that Trump just has the presidency. He also has Congress and the Senate. So anything that Biden does could certainly be undone by Trump. So I don't think that there is anything he could do to further Trump proof him that hasn't already been done structurally.

[Sammy Sage]

He also has a state media apparatus, and he owns the billionaires.

[Bea Speer]

Right. So I don't think so.

[Sammy Sage]

Unfortunately, I don't think so.

[Bea Speer]

I mean, we're in cahoots with other countries, too. You know, like Mexico's like, yeah, well, if you deport everybody, then I'll deport the 2.1 million Americans living in Mexico City on my. You know, having their best time. So I'm sure that there's a lot that's happening behind the Scenes that is in public for the sheer point that, like, you don't want to tell the bully where you are. There's a lot of that going on that I trust. But I don't think you will see any public display of Biden Trump proofing democracy or any kind of, like, packing the court, any kind of putting Kamala Harris on the Supreme Court. He is pushing through federal judges at a rate that is, like, astronomical right now. They're doing a lot that they. That they should have been doing, but they're not. There won't be any grand. There's no silver bullet, big grand thing he can do to quote, like, save America.

[Sammy Sage]

There is nothing new or creative that is happening. It's just same old standard shit. Sorry, if we find out that that's not the case, we'll let you know.

[Bea Speer]

Yeah. And of course, you know, Chuck Schumer's gotta be home for the holidays, so I'm not sure how much he's calling the Senate to order to get a lot of this shit done.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, Hanukkah and Christmas overlap this year.

[Bea Speer]

Well, he said that he's not gonna do special sessions to confirm any more judges or anything. So again, the president isn't as powerful as we think he. All too powerful. Trump proofing has been going on. We will. I do not think we'll see any major big things on the way out the door.

[Sammy Sage]

All right, next one. Hey there, lovely people. I've really been enjoying listening to the podcast. The day after the election, I deleted all of my social media. But subscribe to your podcast because I feel like right now it might be the only place that I trust to get information.

[Bea Speer]

Thank you guys.

[Sammy Sage]

Just want to thank you both for the work that you do.

[Bea Speer]

I love this.

[Sammy Sage]

Now, at the end of the most recent episode, you were talking about populism, and the first thing that crossed my mind was wondering if this is the same as the historical conversation around the oligarchy and the bourgeoisie. I did appreciate hearing that it's hard to nail down the definition because it's being used in many different ways and basically used to vilify whoever somebody doesn't like. But initially it really smacked of that. The oligarchy versus the bourgeoisie. And I was wondering how they compare. If you have the time or energy to enlighten me. We do. If not, I'll just do what I can to research it more. I wonder if you did. I've been finding so many analogs throughout history lately to what's happening now, and it's really interesting and curious to me. Great way to distract myself from the horrors, that's for sure. Thank you so much. And I hope you both stay safe because it's wild out there. Yeah. I would say that this is like, spiritually the same kind of conversation, right? Yeah, I think this is spiritually the same conversation. I do think it just sort of looks different in every era because, you know, like, right now we're. We've talked about, you know, the working class, so to speak, and this is a time when work and the way people's jobs are, are being redefined along lines that are not, that haven't been used in the past. So, like, working class, unskilled versus skilled labor, professional, managerial versus, like, blue collar versus white collar. These things all used to have much more clearly clear distinctions along, like, that mapped onto people's socioeconomic status. But now, because you can be a professional or in the managerial class or college educated, but still have the finances of someone who is working class, all of those people who are not in that really, really high upper echelon of the elite, where their money is literally just budding off of itself and they can never possibly spend it. I think that's the actual distinction that exists here. And that's what populist rhetoric is trying to vilify, even though in Trump's case, it is him that is that elite that never has to worry about working. And the other piece is that, like, think about, you know, freelancing. You could have someone who's a super successful content creator with no college degree, or you could have just someone who runs, like, a solid business. I think what people miss is that the distinction between working class and, you know, elite as it used to be, we're much closer together in the past rather than now. It's like everyone who kind of works for a paycheck and can't really stop working versus people who can just keep going.

[Bea Speer]

Because, like, Whoopi Goldberg, like Whoopi Goldberg who's working class because she works, she works for a living, and she couldn't afford to stop working.

[Sammy Sage]

There just needs to be another turn. They think, but that's the thing.

[Bea Speer]

Like, they think that they can. But maintaining a multi million dollar a year lifestyle versus, like, making 80 grand a year, you know, it's like, yeah, okay, Whoopi, I'm sure maybe you could make a couple sacrifices and you could be, okay.

[Sammy Sage]

Whoopi Goldberg's not a good example because she's a household name.

[Bea Speer]

So I'm just saying she was on the view and when we were talking about the working class, and she's like, I'm the working class. I work for a living. And I was like, girl, but.

[Sammy Sage]

But the producers of the View, even very highly paid ones, are working class.

[Bea Speer]

Yeah. Yep.

[Sammy Sage]

Maybe that. Maybe we need a new word for it, because working class sort of connotes a certain type of person, but it's actually not. And I think only the really extreme elites benefit from creating this false distinction between the working rich and the working poor or the working middle class.

[Bea Speer]

Well, and we've talked about this before, part of the reason why we lost the white male vote is the fact that we've told white men that they're trash and they have a ton of privilege. And it's really difficult to tell a guy in West Virginia who is white and works, but also has dirt floors and five kids. Well, you have a ton of privilege. And he was like, okay. Like, do I. You know, there was a lot of, like, okay. And systemically and academically and crt Wise, absolutely. White people have an outrageous amount of privilege compared to their counterparts and compete. But to go in and specifically say, you guy. They took that personally. And they're like, I work two jobs and I'm worried about, I don't have enough money to buy my kids shoes. Like, what privilege do I have? That was the disconnect, because academically, yes, but in practice, no. And that's the class solidarity thing, too. White and white poor and every other kind used to kind of have, like, class solidarity or want to. But the Republicans started to show white men, like, oh, no, you're just a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. Oh, no, this is the third path. No, you're with us. No, you're our guy. Betray your class. Buy these gold coins, buy these NFTs, buy these sneakers. These are all things that will produce value. It was like they were selling them the Beanie baby dream, literally. It's the first time we tricked white people into thinking that they could create value from capitalism.

[Sammy Sage]

Tulips. Tulips.

[Bea Speer]

What's the tulips?

[Sammy Sage]

The Dutch tulip. I don't know about this craze in, like, the centuries ago.

[Bea Speer]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Oh, it was like the first example or one of the first examples of, like, a artificially inflated boom market where the price of tulips just went crazy in the Netherlands. Read about it. It's interesting. It just shows that, like, value can be created out of seemingly nothing. But. Yeah, that is the thing with the, you know, white man of it all is there is a way to talk about Quote, unquote, critical race theory or the ideas inherent in that that I think could be very appealing to Americans. Which goes back to why I find reactionary rhetoric so annoying. Because the answer to telling to someone who doesn't, you know, agree with, like, DEI or affirmative action isn't, well, you're racist and you're wrong, because you have everything is to, I think, try to meet someone in something they would understand. Like, have you ever been in a situation where you felt like the deck was just really stacked against you and you had had all these hurdles to find, you know, finding your way into a certain room or situation that you had really worked hard, hard for, and you felt like.

[Bea Speer]

Or.

[Sammy Sage]

Or objectively the situation was kind of rigged out of your favor. And then you can get. You know, there's ways to speak to people that does not make it feel like it's their fault for being born who they are, because no one can help that. And it's fucked up to do that. And you don't win anyone over.

[Bea Speer]

Yeah, they just get mad because everybody wants to believe everything that we earned, we earned through merit and not through the fact that my dad, right, worked in a factory for 40 years. Had me at 19 years old, like, still married to my mom. All this stuff. He's like, I didn't fucking have privilege. I worked so fucking hard. I worked so hard that sometimes I work overtime on overtime. You watched me and you're gonna say I had privilege? I'm like, right. But what he may not recognize is he did get that job that maybe he wouldn't have got if he were black, right? So it's like, yeah, it's both, pop.

[Sammy Sage]

And also like, okay, yes, no one's saying you didn't work hard, but also, when you. If you had a speeding ticket and you were pulled over, did you fear that you would get shot?

[Bea Speer]

Yeah, I was like, daddy, Grandpa was the sheriff in our town. We were okay.

[Sammy Sage]

Oh, my God.

[Bea Speer]

But that came out of. That came out of my family's weird. That's a whole other thing. My family tried to attain whiteness, right? Because they came here as a marginalized group. And what they saw was as a lot of, like, Italian immigrants and different people who came from fascism saw was like, if you can assimilate, you can succeed. So there are some families who came here by force and they didn't wanna be here. And there are some families who came here and were like, I have to give up what I am to find safety in any kind of prosperity. And so I'm willing to do that. And there are people who weren't willing to do that. But on my side, it was like, they came here, they escaped fascism, and they were like, if we can assimilate, if we could become Americans, then maybe our entire blood lineage won't be killed by the shit that we've gone through for the last several centuries. And those people, I think, are more frequently found in America today, that are successful, are found here today than they were maybe decades ago. Where if you're part of this 1800s, Irish, Italian, you know, Croatian, Albanian, whatever, Polish immigration situation, then you've had your grandparents who work their asses off, your parents who are boomers, and then you are maybe a millennial and you feel very comfortable. But that was directly related to your grandparents decision to assimilate. Right? To try and like, be a part of, you know, being American or whatever. And that's why they get so defensive about patriotism. They get defensive about working hard, who is working class, where we came from, what we have, why shouldn't we have a little bit more comfort? We struggled for all this time. And when we say things like, well, you just have privilege, it hurts that, like, deep part of your bloodline that like, struggled and wants to believe that you chose right all those years ago when you chose to try and like, be the best version of yourself or whatever.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, I mean, I'll say that, like, both sides of my family come from very different ways of the American dream. Like, my dad came into America after his parents were in a displaced person camp after Auschwitz. He was born in Canada. They tried to get into the US when he was like 6 or 7. He got in, so he was a naturalized citizen. He drove a cab all night to put himself through college. Like, he grew up in, like, squalor. And then my on put himself through college, dental school, then on my mom's side, my grandfather fought in the Korean War. So he got to take advantage of the GI Bill. And I'm very aware that he would not have gotten that if he were not white. But also I grew up in his home. And that home was in a very, very good school district. And that's why I got to where I am, why I went to the college I went to, most likely, I mean, had the friends I had, have the life I have now. So it's like I realized that all of that was my grant. Like, he was the one who could afford to like, live in the nice neighborhood because of the GI Bill, because they got a good mortgage rate when they were Building that suburb when, you know, he was able to take advantage of those things. And that is why I'm here.

[Bea Speer]

That's what Republicans promised the good old days of the post World War II 50s and 60s, right? And they were speaking to white people, and they were the predominant voting block. The white men came out and they said, okay, now they're not gonna actually give you that, because as we'll talk about in a future episode, the TRAD movement loves to present to you very wealthy people who stay at home with their children and have the establishment aesthetic of homesteading. But you will never get that. You can never actually achieve that.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, I feel like the reason I am a Democrat in theory, you know, is because I believe that I have what I have because of this country, not because I deserve, you know, I apparently deserve it. And I want more people to have that. I want other people to have those advantages or forget if it's like an advantage or disadvantage. A good education, a safe household, clean water, some grass in their neighborhood, like just a decent, safe, secure. Not that I always felt so safe and secure, but just have the things that they need.

[Bea Speer]

This is why Emily Tish Sussman, our favorite billionaire, once said when I interviewed her at the dnc, I was like, why do you love the Democrats so much and work so hard for the Democrats? You're a very wealthy woman. She was like, yes. And I'm like, what makes you want to be over here, though? Like, what, you and Mark Cuban? Like, what's going on with you guys? And she was like, I have enough because I recognize that I actually have enough. And so I don't need anymore. And I want other people to have enough because I own a soccer team. It's called the Gotham. And I would love for that stadium to be full of families who could afford comfortably to buy the tickets, pay for the parking, get the peanuts and popcorn, maybe buy a jersey for their kid, maybe come multiple times. I want people to generally comfortably enjoy the world, and I have plenty, so I don't need anymore. I'm not, you know, she's at no risk of whatever she. But there are. And then there are people who. It'll never be enough. It'll never be enough for Jeff Bezos, right? And so that's why he goes a different way. But I remember her talking about it, and she was like, and I think that the Democrats policies get us closer to that world where there's always gonna be some people who have more. That's. We're not, you know, it's not communism where Everybody's gonna make $10 an hour, period, that's the end. But it's like everybody in a country as wealthy as ours, with as much opportunity as ours should be able to say, you know what? I have a lot, A lot. I have so much that I want to give back in a way. Like the Rockefellers built the fucking railroads, right? Like, why isn't shit like that? But they gave back in some way, you know, with arts and all that shit. Why not give back in some way so that everybody can again just enjoy to do whatever it is?

[Sammy Sage]

Well, some of the giving back is like a little bit of like, bullshit because it was meant to furnish their name and then also get tax breaks. But like, fine, I, but, but I, I do believe there is altruism within people that is not entirely motivated by, you know, real self interest at the bottom of it. And I think that that is a good value that we should have and.

[Bea Speer]

Maybe we should go back to. Cause like, in the classical music world and we deal with this with Natalie, the way that you can even begin to play in classical music is that your parents are already rich because it's so fucking expensive. Not that her parents were rich, but they did okay? So she got to do all this and she got all these different scholarships by other rich people. Because you eventually take on a patron, right? And this person's like, supposed to just make it okay for you to go make music of the world. Well, the patrons don't shut the fuck up anymore. And she's gonna be mad that I said this. But like, people who used to be patrons were like eccentric old lady billionaires or whatever who are just spending their husband's money for art and fun and like, want you to play at their little holiday parties or their ladies lunch twice now they're like, here's the repertoire I want you to have. And like, what's going on with it? They're too, they're involved because now when rich people spend money, they like, want to control it still, as opposed to.

[Sammy Sage]

They want an roi.

[Bea Speer]

They want an roi. And it's like, you can't get ROI on music, okay? Like, that's not how it works. The music is the return. She made you the music. Like, leave her alone. And so, you know, we don't go the classical music route anymore. But so many of our composer friends used to, you know, their mentors would get a certain endowment from some rich ass family who just wanted more music in the world, and they'd go do their, you know, Handshakey special thing. Now it's like, no, I need you to like sell tickets at this volume to do whatever. And it's like, it's fucked up.

[Sammy Sage]

All rich people sell rich people. No, it looks. Except for you.

[Bea Speer]

You're a good rich person. You would be a great billionaire.

[Sammy Sage]

I don't have. Here's the problem. That's because I don't have enough to. To make. To be a patron.

[Bea Speer]

Well, that's what I'm saying.

[Sammy Sage]

If I were a patron, I would just be like, okay, here, bye.

[Bea Speer]

Like, enjoy. If anybody deserves a billion dollars, it's you. You'd be, I don't want a billionaire.

[Sammy Sage]

No, I don't want a billion dollars. Because it fucks up your brain.

[Bea Speer]

You think so?

[Sammy Sage]

100% does.

[Bea Speer]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Like, I think that that makes them.

[Bea Speer]

Like, Pritzker is cool.

[Sammy Sage]

Sure. But okay, I can't.

[Bea Speer]

That's for everybody versus new money again. I think the old money versus new money is exactly what we're coming back to again. There are certain families who like, well.

[Sammy Sage]

I'm very new money. I know, but I feel I was rich in a previous life.

[Bea Speer]

Yeah. I wasn't.

[Sammy Sage]

You don't think?

[Bea Speer]

No. Oh my God. Are you kidding me? I have such a, like deep rooted Irish Albanian struggle in me that I get money and I get weird about it. I'm like, I have to like take care of a million people and give it all away.

[Sammy Sage]

Oh, same. But like, that's still. Listen, that's why we need to be more wealthy, because we would be better.

[Bea Speer]

We'd be great rich people.

[Sammy Sage]

I just wanna buy people gifts.

[Bea Speer]

I do too. I love presents. I asked my gram for a school project when I was young. You know, you have to like, find out where you're from or whatever. And I was like, grandma, I have to do this project and find out where I'm from. And she was like, no, go ask your grandma Alice. She'll tell you something the teacher want to hear. Like, I don't know, you're a Cherokee princess or something, but not me. Not fucking me. Who's asking? Don't you dare put my name on that paper so I know that my blood runs just absolutely stupid paranoid.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, mine too.

[Bea Speer]

She's like, who's asking? I'm like, I don't know, like my teacher. She's like, what's her name? Like, I don't want. Yeah, yeah, go ask grandma Alison. I thought that was the funniest shit.

[Sammy Sage]

You wanna see my papers?

[Bea Speer]

Yeah. She's like, what? They shouldn't Be asking you that. I'm in third grade. I'm like, okay. Meanwhile, my father's mother is so lovely. She's like, oh, yes. And we came here from Ireland and like the early founding of this country and it was so lovely. And I'm like, okay, I'll write that down.

[Sammy Sage]

You got a lovely little Mayflower story out of that.

[Bea Speer]

I did. I got a lovely little. Not Mayflower. What they. Whatever. The Irish came on in, like the 1700s. Whatever.

[Sammy Sage]

Ellis Island.

[Bea Speer]

We got Ellis island on one side. Some of my dad's family was here well before. Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

All right. Should we close the episode?

[Bea Speer]

Let's close it out. Anyway, send us your emails because it is so fun. And there was so many that were, like, specific to my curiosities that I appreciate. Like, we got like about 40 on things to do in Philly when I was going to Philly. And then we got this one, which was I was asking about cool ways that people celebrate New Year's Eve. And our friend here is.

[Sammy Sage]

This was a great one.

[Bea Speer]

Hi, friends. Love the show. Looking forward to new episodes. Keeps me company on my long commutes during the week. Amelia island in northeast Florida hosts a shrimp drop Every New Year's Eve. A giant lighted shrimp is hoisted into the sky and dropped at about 7pm so the whole family can enjoy it without having to stay up too late. There's lots of food and shop vendors as well as fireworks. That is my dream. A 7pm Celebration.

[Sammy Sage]

A 7pm Shrimp drop. It is a little bit. Look, it's a little anti Semitic on kosher, right?

[Bea Speer]

And then all the dishes are just like little pork sandwiches.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, do they have like a non shrimp option?

[Bea Speer]

A salmon drop?

[Sammy Sage]

Tuna drop?

[Bea Speer]

No, we can't do a tuna drop or a salmon drop because the orcas are wearing salmon as hats again. We'll talk about that.

[Sammy Sage]

I saw that weirdness.

[Bea Speer]

All right, well, we love you guys. Thank you for giving us your time and attention. It truly is an honor to spend this time with you guys. Until next time, I'm Vitaspear Sage and this is American Fever Dream.

[Sammy Sage]

Good night. American Fever Dream is produced and edited by Samantha Gatzick Social media by Candice Miniga and Bridget Schwartz. Be sure to follow us on Instagram and TikTok Betches News. And follow me Sammy Sage at Sammy and the Desk News. And of course, send us your emails to American Fever dreams dot com.