Inside Trump & Epstein’s PR Machine

Summary

American Fever Dream: Episode Summary – "Inside Trump & Epstein’s PR Machine" Release Date: July 22, 2025

Hosts: V. Spear and Sammy Sage

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I. Introduction and Season Themes (00:00 – 02:20)

The episode opens with a brief reflection on the previous year's "Brat Summer," lamenting the absence of a unifying theme for the current summer season. Hosts V. Spear and Sammy Sage discuss how this summer lacks the traditional motifs, instead dubbing it "Epstein Summer" or "No Hope Summer." They link the absence of a cohesive summer theme to broader socioeconomic indicators, such as recession signs, and introduce topics like the resurgence of polyamory within the context of economic downturns.

Notable Quote:

• V. Spear [01:28]: "There's no theme this summer. Did you notice that? Every summer there's a theme and this year we were just like it survives Epstein Summer."

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II. Critique of Jubilee Media and Modern Debates (02:27 – 10:15)

The conversation shifts to Jubilee Media, specifically criticizing their debate formats. Sammy expresses frustration over the "Surrounded" series featuring Mehdi Hasan, highlighting what she perceives as the host's inability to sustain logical arguments, leading to poor-quality debates. V. Spear echoes these sentiments, labeling Jubilee as "Fox News for Gen Z" due to its focus on culture wars and sensational debates rather than substantive discussions. They argue that such platforms inadvertently amplify extremist views by providing them with a notorious stage.

Notable Quotes:

• Sammy Sage [05:10]: "Wasn't there someone who was trans who went on and debated the, debated the person and they were like very good."
• V. Spear [06:04]: "Jubilee is the Fox News for Gen Z. So they don't care that their person is losing or saying disgusting things."

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III. Impact of Digital Age on Communication and Vocabulary (10:19 – 25:16)

The hosts delve into the ramifications of the digital age on interpersonal communication, particularly focusing on Gen Z. They discuss a perceived decline in vocabulary and reading comprehension skills, attributing it to overexposure to digital screens and reliance on technologies like AI for communication. Both speakers share personal struggles with vocabulary recall and emphasize the importance of real-life interactions in developing robust language skills. They highlight the generational shift where younger individuals lack the necessary tools for effective communication due to societal changes.

Notable Quotes:

• V. Spear [18:22]: "I have this problem. As a dyslexic world, word recall is sort of difficult for me."
• Sammy Sage [17:18]: "And Emily in your phone, Emily Amick actually had a substack this morning about tying those things together about how the Gen Z stare is like a dopamine deficit that we all have."

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IV. Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, and Political Implications (26:57 – 39:32)

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing the legacy of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, intertwining it with current political narratives. The hosts critique ongoing efforts to hold powerful individuals accountable, expressing skepticism about the effectiveness and sincerity of such endeavors. They highlight the continued influence of Epstein's network, drawing parallels between past scandals and present-day attempts to create secluded spaces for the affluent to operate beyond legal constraints. The conversation touches upon conspiracy theories, the role of media in shaping public perception, and the challenges in unveiling the full extent of Epstein's associations.

Notable Quotes:

• Sammy Sage [27:28]: "If anyone gives a fuck about bodily autonomy, if you care about kids, if you care about people who need things like food assistance and Medicaid, these are the people who Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell trafficked."
• V. Spear [31:04]: "They're using the Epstein model of how do I create my own little Warren Jeff's oasis for me to do weird shit on."

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V. Male Loneliness and Societal Dynamics (39:32 – 53:37)

The discussion transitions to the concept of the "male loneliness epidemic," exploring its roots in patriarchal societal structures and economic challenges faced by younger men. The hosts argue that feelings of loneliness among men are exacerbated by economic stagnation, lack of opportunities, and societal expectations. They critique influential figures like Andrew Tate and Joe Rogan for exploiting these vulnerabilities, pushing narratives that promise personal success without addressing systemic issues. The conversation emphasizes the need for meaningful societal changes to alleviate loneliness and foster healthier interpersonal relationships.

Notable Quotes:

• Sammy Sage [48:46]: "What this all represents for me is... the end result of just like a deeply patriarchal way of thinking."
• V. Spear [52:19]: "They're exploiting you, too."

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VI. Conclusion and Teasers for Next Episode (53:37 – 58:38)

In their closing remarks, the hosts briefly mention upcoming topics, including a deep dive into Plymouth Rock, labeling it as "the biggest scam in American history." They also touch upon the challenges faced by presidential spouses, using Hillary Clinton as an example of enduring public scrutiny and personal attacks due to their associations with powerful yet controversial figures.

Notable Quotes:

• V. Spear [58:04]: "Our next show is going to be Toxic Bitches. Next week..."

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VII. Advertisements and Sponsorships

Throughout the episode, there are intermittent advertisements from sponsors like Shopify, Progressive Insurance, and JCPenney. These segments are seamlessly integrated and do not pertain to the core content of the podcast.

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VIII. Key Takeaways

• Media Critique: The hosts express distrust and dissatisfaction with modern media platforms like Jubilee Media, viewing them as amplifiers of extremist views under the guise of fostering understanding.

• Generational Concerns: There is a strong focus on how the digital age has negatively impacted younger generations' communication skills, social interactions, and mental health.

• Political Accountability: The episode underscores the ongoing struggle to hold powerful individuals accountable for past scandals, highlighting systemic failures and the persistence of elite networks.

• Societal Dynamics: The discussion on male loneliness points to deeper societal and economic issues that contribute to feelings of isolation and inadequacy among men today.

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Disclaimer: The views and statements expressed by V. Spear and Sammy Sage in this podcast are those of the hosts and do not necessarily reflect verified facts or positions of authoritative bodies. Listeners are encouraged to seek out multiple sources and viewpoints to form a comprehensive understanding of the topics discussed.

Transcript

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[V. Spear]

Rise and shine, fever dreamers. Look alive, my friends. I'm V. Spear.

[Sammy Sage]

And I'm Sammy Sage.

[V. Spear]

And this is American Fever Dream, presented by Betch's News, the show that wants.

[Sammy Sage]

To take a moment to memorialize Brat Summer, which was this time last year. The memories.

[V. Spear]

There's no theme this summer. Did you notice that? Every summer there's a theme and this year we were just like it survives Epstein Summer. Epstein. I guess it's Epstein Summer. Yeah. There's no hope summer. There's no song of the summer. Even that I can relax that.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, I don't think there is.

[V. Spear]

We just gave her. We were like, fuck it. We're not.

[Sammy Sage]

That's a side. That's a recession indicator.

[V. Spear]

I think so. That recession indicators that I. That we noticed. Quick rundown. No song, no theme recession. Blonde is back. The gays are going blonde again. And polyamory is back. Which the politics of polyamory makes sense in the context of recession.

[Sammy Sage]

We'll get to that next.

[V. Spear]

Look forward to these thoughts on polyamory and the recession and the history of America and how it's leaned on communal living and loving through difficult times.

[Sammy Sage]

It takes a village.

[V. Spear]

It does, lovers. It does.

[Sammy Sage]

We're going to. We have a lot to talk about today. It's all just going to be a brain dump from second to last episode.

[V. Spear]

So we decided, oh, we're throwing the wheels off. We're just. We're no brakes. Going to tell you all of our thoughts this week and next week.

[Sammy Sage]

Okay. But first, I have to tell you what I've been doing this morning because I saw so many people posting clips from the Surrounded video with Mehdi Hassan that from Jubilee. And I just kept seeing it, and people just kept commenting on how outrageous it was. I'm like, okay, fine, I'm gonna listen to a clip. The clip I watched was so insane that I. That I decided to watch pretty much the entire thing. And I'm like, a little more than halfway through. And let me just say, I think we know what the results of no Child Left behind have been. The children have been left behind because there is, like, such, like, aside from the ideology, like the straight fascism that these people are proudly espousing. And we should play some clips because you really have to hear for yourself. Aside from that, there is, like, a deep aversion to logic.

[V. Spear]

They've been left behind all the way to 1939, man. We're in the 1939, 1941 Germany left behind. We are so far behind here. They were talking about Franco. I was like, you people don't know anything about this.

[Sammy Sage]

It's not even just that. It's like they can't even sustain an argument. They. They defeat their own arguments within seconds. And I am like, wow, I wonder. I have to know what Mehdi Hasan was thinking. Has he written about that anywhere? Because I. I don't think he's.

[V. Spear]

Honestly, I think it gave it a lot more credibility and reach than it deserved, because these. These things are bad. So what we, as educated coastal elites see is Mehdi Hassan owning the room. These people destroying their own arguments. What they see is the liberal elite beating down. They didn't even. They didn't even let them talk. They're learning new words. They're learning a permission structure, and they're hearing things like, oh, Franco, let me look that up. Like, it's not good. I don't think Jubilee is doing anything good. I just don't think it's good. I think it is like an online debate that is in bad faith, that matches people that are not of similar witnesses. And it just. I'm really, honestly quite grossed out by it. Jubilee has tried to get me to come on. We've had offers to come on, and I've said no every time, because from early on, the first Jubilee that went viral was the one with Dean Withers where he was destroying the right wing maga bros. Right? And that's when people were like ooh, Jubilee and Dean Withers sort of got very popular. Since then the ones that they have done have been things like trying to negotiate with transphobes if trans people are people and they're just saying the most disgusting, horrible things.

[Sammy Sage]

Wasn't there someone who was trans who went on and debated the, debated the person and they were like very good.

[V. Spear]

Though I understand that they're very good because we see it as very good. But what the right wing and these it's like Jubilee. I was saying Jubilee is the Fox News for Gen Z. So they don't care that their person is losing or saying disgusting things. They are learning new disgusting things. So that's why I think it's more dangerous than not because they that programming is not for us necessarily. Like we have plenty of academic debate and scholarly research we look at and conversations we have what the people who are more right wing that go on these places are and I wouldn't even, I don't even want to say right wing. I'm saying like full on extremists that go on here they are, they're just going on to find more community and create a greater permission structure where things like this are platformed. And that's why I don't fuck with Jubilee.

[Sammy Sage]

Right. I mean I, I, I get it. Didn't like Pete Buttigieg go on though.

[V. Spear]

I don't know if he really real. I, I understand but every time somebody goes on that's like a real person they are quite simply legitimizing that platform which does massive harm. So I, I get that Mehdi absolutely won the debate but he wasn't it, it, it's not a real debate. This isn't real like well the thing.

[Sammy Sage]

Is it's like it is real. Like this is what these people think. Like when you look at the but when you look at the comments the comments are very much on his side. So my like I understand that from the people are getting responsive to new.

[V. Spear]

Ideas from the places you're.

[Sammy Sage]

No no, no. I'm looking at the YouTube like I'm talking about like the actual video. Like the first thing is you can see why the Department of Education is the first target. That is 38,000 likes. Second person says it's never been easier to understand the rise of Nazism in 1930s Germany. 10,000 likes. This episode feels like some the beginning of something really bad as A German. This is hard to watch. Five years ago these people wouldn't admit they were bigoted it but go to.

[V. Spear]

At this point other episode. Go to the Jordan Peterson episode where Jordan Peterson was the lead. I'm sure they're rooting and they're rooting for him. So it depends on who the lead person is as to how the comments or whatever.

[Sammy Sage]

I see what you're saying.

[V. Spear]

I see what you're saying. I think it's a. I think it's a bad faith.

[Sammy Sage]

You're saying it's bad because it.

[V. Spear]

I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying it's a bad faith program.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[V. Spear]

I don't think it's doing what it claims to present.

[Sammy Sage]

Well there was like Dr. Mike surrounded by 20 anti vaxxers is good like I think I get what you're saying. Like because it helps people find kinship with ideas that they shouldn't we don't want them to find kinship for and like they might not interpret Betty's argument as the one that they're behind but yeah, it's really kind of crazy. I also think it's generational.

[V. Spear]

I. I think Gen Z's idea of academic debate. Okay, so let me. I also dug into who is Jubilee, who owns it. Why is it like this? Am I just like putting my own feelings on it? Jubilee was founded back in 2010 by a Korean American inventor, entrepreneur, serial entrepreneur who graduated from the Wharton School. Wonderful educated, good faith guy when he started it, at least from what I can tell. And it was started as a nonprofit organization to teach nonprofits business better storytelling skills on YouTube. And they did that for six years until 2016. Something changed in 2016. This particular entrepreneur went on to work for other companies. He worked for Bain Capital. He invented a sparkling soda brand that was Asian owned. He invented a clothing brand that was Asian owned. He was always. He does a ton of work for the Aapi community. He does not seem like a bastard to me. He seems like a serial entrepreneur. Very ambitious startup guy starts companies. So Jubilee Media then founded in 2017 it's no longer a nonprofit. It and now its goal is to provoke understanding and create human connection. But in the last like two years, what they've done is these highly volatile, insane debates they've all surrounded. Yes, the Surrounded show became the most popular one. But they've had on debates between Ezra Klein and somebody who's against him. Right. They've had swipe on 30 different girls without any context and then learn who was the smart one. And who wasn't and who's a Nazi and who's not. Not like it. It's. Culturally, I get the cultural relevance. I'm just saying as a person, I don't participate in it because I think it's not a good thing to platform.

[Sammy Sage]

I don't feel one way or the other. I feel unsure about it.

[V. Spear]

It's also got a lot of venture capital money in it now too. So, you know, Strong Ventures has invested the guy who founded DoorDash, the guy who founded Rotten Tomatoes, NBA player Jeremy Lynn. So I don't know much about these people. YouTube co founder Steve Chen and is invested in it. Patreon co FOUNDER is invested in it. And I get it. And it's because it does really well on those platforms. And I think perhaps there was like a good ethos or idea behind it to take the academic debates we have in universities and colleges and bring them to the YouTube world. But the fact is it is not a level playing field. And it creates, I think it creates more problems than it solves. That's where I'm at.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, maybe, maybe the issue is. Is algorithmic social media?

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Even more than, you know, the content itself. Because what's the thing? Like, you're not going to. How can you just marginalize everyone who has ideas that are basically kind of like out of the realm of liberal democracy when that's the point of liberal democracy? And he says that even in this. He's talking about free speech in this, and he's trying to prove the point that it's like, yeah, like, you just don't get to decide.

[V. Spear]

Well, he was talking to that one guy and the guy's like, I'm an autocrat. I believe in fascism. And they were like, well, how would we pick the king? And he's like, well, the people would vote. He's like, that's democracy. And he's like, yeah, no, the people. But they would vote one time. He's like, okay, so we vote one time, then no further elections forever. That doesn't make sense. What if he kills your family? He's like, well, he wouldn't. And it's like, just play the clip.

[Sammy Sage]

Play. Let's play it.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Quite frankly, if Trump is anti Constitution, Good. And I think he should go further.

[Conor]

So this is. This is wonderfully revealing of the modern conservative mindset. So I appreciate you spelling it out so openly. Just checking. Do you support the Second Amendment?

[Mehdi Hasan]

I do.

[Conor]

Okay. Surprised. I was shocked to hear that. I'm saying that Donald Trump is defying the First Amendment, the Fourth Amendment, the Fifth Amendment, the 14th Amendment. He's thinking of defying the 12th and 22nd Amendments. You're saying you don't care about the Constitution, but actually you do because you quite like the second Amendment. You just don't like the bits that you disagree with. Can I just be clear on that?

[Mehdi Hasan]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Conor]

Okay.

[Mehdi Hasan]

I'm more than willing to. I'm more than willing to amend it and whenever it's in your favor. Yeah, absolutely.

[Conor]

So can Democrats do the same when they're in office?

[Mehdi Hasan]

No, absolutely not. Because you don't believe in democracy. No, I don't. Absolutely not.

[Conor]

What do you believe in?

[Mehdi Hasan]

Autocracy.

[Conor]

How would Conor's America look? What would it look like?

[Mehdi Hasan]

What's the government look like? Yeah, I would say, quite frankly, it's under a sort of benevolent leader such as. What is he, Franco? It could be a kind of aristocratic class. Could be someone who picks the autocrat, frankly, the people. I mean, we could hold a vote on it.

[Conor]

Kings were not democracy.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Well, sure, you can have a vote.

[Conor]

To get to that and then no more votes afterwards.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Absolutely, 100%.

[Conor]

Wow. And if that autocrat kills you and your family, you're fine with that?

[Mehdi Hasan]

Well, I'm not. I'm not going to be a part of the group that he kills because that's the whole thing.

[Conor]

How do you know Carl Schmidt? Autocrats tend to kill everyone.

[Mehdi Hasan]

This point very well. In his work, it's the friend enemy distinction, Right.

[Conor]

You, Carl Schmidt, the Nazi theoretician.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Absolutely. I don't care.

[V. Spear]

So, Sammy, this is what I'm saying, right? This guy does not know what the fuck he's talking about. And he's being given equal platform with Mehdi Hassan. And I don't think that is it.

[Sammy Sage]

Equal though, because they can. Because Mehdi Hassan is the center of the show and he.

[V. Spear]

But that one person represents the thoughts.

[Sammy Sage]

Of the surround until they vote him out. But yes, they all do believe that because they're all clapping. But to Mehdi Hasan's point that he makes that he. I'm happy that it, you know, people are so open about it because at least we can see.

[V. Spear]

You know, I did like when I liked when Mehdi said, ooh, such a big man. You get. You get claps from 20 people who share your values. You must feel very important and validated right now with your wrong opinion.

[Sammy Sage]

He's really, honestly, like, he's a very good debater too. He really knows his facts. Although people who go on there really.

[V. Spear]

Know, well, you're Given the questions. And you get to decide ahead of time. I'm going to tell you because I've seen the bad.

[Sammy Sage]

You decide the, the, the big arguments.

[V. Spear]

You, you decide the big arguments and you get to prepare what the facts are and you get to dismiss somebody if you don't want to talk to them anymore.

[Sammy Sage]

Okay. I mean, so you're gonna win if.

[V. Spear]

You'Re the person who's in the surroundings.

[Sammy Sage]

That's not true.

[V. Spear]

You're gonna win.

[Sammy Sage]

You won't necessarily win.

[V. Spear]

You. Do you have a significant.

[Sammy Sage]

Who is the trans person who went on and won?

[V. Spear]

I don't know. You have a significant. I don't know any trans person. Because the trans thing was against Michael Knowles and he ended up saying the most insane fucking things I've ever heard in my life. And it was really detrimental.

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[Sammy Sage]

That probably was really detrimental. But there was a trans person who went on and I think really stuck it to that person. All five could be.

[V. Spear]

But it was, I think also when you look at the topics that they're choosing and stuff, you are. You are picking people, their culture war issues. And they are typically things in which like the people who are most affected by that are not the surround. I mean, in this case, Mehdi Hassan of course is an immigrant, but he's not. They're not debating an immigrant who's being tortured at Alligator Alcatraz and talking about their personal experience or talking to a person who's had great privilege as an immigrant. And they're. I just.

[Sammy Sage]

But what's he doing? He's representing.

[V. Spear]

I know he's.

[Sammy Sage]

He's representing that he's.

[V. Spear]

He is, but that's not what he. He's representing it to some level, but he's not actually representing that he had a very different path than the people who are in Alligator Alcatraz right now.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, but the person. No one at Alligator Alcatraz is going on the show, but he's there to like share it.

[V. Spear]

I'm saying is with this Jubilee thing, they're trying to equate that this represents all of one side or all of the other. And I continue to. My aggravation with it comes from the Michael Knowles episode, especially because he was saying things that then people went on to create as fact.

[Sammy Sage]

Continue saying right, right, right.

[V. Spear]

Against trans people.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, no, I see your. I honestly, yeah, it's. I mean that's like half of what's online.

[V. Spear]

And that, I mean that, that's the thing. That's why this show does so well is because that's why I'm calling it Fox News for Gen Z. It is the same formula. It is culture wars. It is sound bites. It is trying to like get your little thing in.

[Sammy Sage]

I saw a theory that Gen Z might have lead poisoning because of vaping.

[V. Spear]

Ooh, well, that you call them theories. Some of them are boomery. It's. It's an interesting. It's an interesting thing to watch. What's going on with Gen Z and the boomer ification of Gen Z. The fact that they did not understand what the Gen Z stare was I think speaks to the lack of like self awareness that the generation has overall. They were like, yeah, because you have stupid questions. It's like, no, it's because you can't do small talk. It's because I say hi to you and you're working at the counter of wherever it is and I'm like, hi, I'd like. And you're like, just like.

[Sammy Sage]

They look at you like they hate you and it's like, okay, I don't care.

[V. Spear]

I think they're so wildly insecure. I think that boomers were narcissists. And I think Gen Z has been taught to be wildly insecure because they have been surveyed their entire lives. They have been perceived and put online and criticized and exposed and vulnerable from the day they were born, with or without their consent, their parents putting them online as. Primarily as a generation or being online themselves. So I think where boomers had the narcissist thing going on, whatever is going on with Gen Z has to do with the overexposedness they have to digital spaces with or without their consent.

[Sammy Sage]

I think you're completely right. And Emily in your phone, Emily Amick actually had a substack this morning about tying those things together about how the Gen Z stare is like a dopamine deficit that we all have. But the difference is that they've never had any time when they had to just be present, be bored, be in like you just have no choice but to look at someone in the eye and interact with them. And they have always had that escape and it has actually caused a deficiency in their brains. And I believe this. Plus like, they didn't that part of what I've like Noticed in this Jubilee video is that people, it comes from a place of frustration and feeling, like, thwarted. Like there's this sense of a dream deferred, you know, for the whole generation. And all they have is the dopamine they can get from their phone because there's no sense of a broader goal or like a future that they can kind of like have in mind. That seems like it. They could actually get to before something changes.

[V. Spear]

There's. And there's a lack of vocabulary also. So the thing that I notice in the Gen Z stare is that it is almost like not to bring up their language, although time, but it's almost a trauma response. They are just waiting for whatever interaction you're having with them to be over. They're dissociating. They're just waiting for it to be over. They haven't, they don't have the vocabulary or the practice in small talk because that, because people didn't talk to them. They gave them screens and laptops and sat them down in restaurants and said, here, watch this, right? And that's, that's part of it. So they don't know how to have that back and forth. So they wait for it to be over. And that's what a lot of people do when they're in a survival circumstance. And I'm sure somewhere in there, that's what's going on. And I mean, people do that.

[Sammy Sage]

We do that when it's like, oh, I'm tired of socializing, I want to.

[V. Spear]

Go home and be on my phone like the time. And the other thing I think is difficult, much more desperate, is because they have this ability to rely on chat GPT to think for them, or the Internet to tell them what to do, or the comment sections to develop their opinions. They don't have a vocabulary that allows them to express themselves as, as expressively as they want. I have this problem. As a dyslexic world, word recall is sort of difficult for me. And I had to like, go to special school to learn how to do word recall. And I'm like, always thinking of what words I'm trying to, like, pull out of the limited vocabulary I have even and Gen Z has even further. It is a forced learning disability that was put on them by the fact that they were not taught how to have conversations, how to be bored, how to use their imagination. They were taught, learn this, Regurgitate it for the test. Learn this. Regurgitate it for the test. Don't talk, don't make noise, watch your screens, don't Bother mommy at the restaurant. I can't even. Parents can't be with their kids to talk to them because they got to work two and three jobs to keep up with the economy. So I'm not blaming Gen Z for anything. I think this will be sort of like each generation has the thing that they have to survive that was societally put on them. That creates dysfunction for that generation. And I think this is how theirs is showing up.

[Sammy Sage]

This is really bad though. Like, this is actually like it's attention fracking. It is destructive of people's experience and it creates externalities in society. Even if it's sort of like appears harmless because all it is is the phone. They're not.

[V. Spear]

Well, the other thing about Gen Z is you have to look at who their parents are. Gen Z's parents are Gen X primarily, who were also a neglected generation or they are boomers second family. So their parents were much older, much more dis. Sort of bigger age difference between them when it comes to playing with them. When you look at what's coming up with Gen Alpha, you're seeing a lot more millennial parenting, which is a little bit more. I talk to them, I play with them. Gentle parenting. I teach them about the world around them. We talk about our creativity into social, emotional learning. And we'll see how we fuck those kids up. I'm sure my kids are gonna be messed up. They're gonna be too nice or two people pleaser. Whatever's gonna happen that we do wrong, everybody does something wrong. But I think that's the difference between, you see, I think it's the difference you see between Gen Z and Gen Alpha is Gen Alpha does have more vocabulary. They are more conversational. They're a little bit more interested and emotionally connected than Gen Z was allowed to be.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, I think that parents do try to limit screen time or use to not do that. Right. Well, because we had a lot of education around like cyber safety. I think like there was this idea that like the Internet was not this. The technology was like good, but it wasn't a hundred percent like definitely safe and you should be careful. Like there was a sense of care around it that I think they didn't get. But to your point about vocabulary recall, I feel this too. I feel that I used to have a really strong vocabulary, especially as a child. And now like, especially in the past like two years, it I cannot find like the exact word I want to find when. When I know and like what I find it easier to write or to text because I can like, think of the exact word. Or Google, like, synonym for the word I'm thinking of.

[V. Spear]

You read a lot of books. You're a big reader. So even. And I don't read as many books, but I read magazines and things. But it's like that they're not reading books either, or magazines. And I think that that really hurts even more.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, what I. What I read is that the reason they can't read books is because they can't keep, like, the. The memory back. Yeah. And I find that even when I'm reading, I'll sort of have to like, look back in, like, I was reading something. Actually. Very good book. The Wedding by Dorothy West. It's not a new book, but it's like a kind of a classic book. Very good. And the writer, the author had, like, repeated the same phrase within, I don't know, five chapters. And I was like, wait, like, did he say that before? And I'm like, I had. I went back and looked for it because I'm like, am I crazy or am I here? Because, again, you know. Yeah. And I get. That's obviously like a literary device, but it. That affects your comprehension, you know, and your ability to just, like, read through.

[V. Spear]

I buy books and then I look at them, like trophies. I buy them, and I think that because I bought them, like, I know what's in them, but I don't. And then I never get to them. And so many people send me books, and I'll, like, kind of skim them and I'll get ideas from them, but I. I won't read the whole thing. But I bought a book recently, and it is because I have difficulty with vocabulary, and I'm recognizing that my writing is suffering, my speaking is suffering, and I don't know why, but I don't want it to happen. So I bought a book that's like four high school people studying for their sat. That's like a vocabulary book that's literally like, here's a couple different words to use instead of these words. And I'm like, trying to rebuild vocabulary.

[Sammy Sage]

At 42, I got the word of the day email. That's really. They're a little. They're like a little too obscure.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Like, I'm not going to use those words.

[V. Spear]

Well, Natalie, I really smart. So she always has to correct me, too, because I'll. I'll pull a word out, and then that's not what that word means. I'll be like. She's like, that's not what you think it means.

[Sammy Sage]

Don't yeah, there's also, like, a level of nuance with vocabulary, and I think that that is. And I notice when people talk on the. On comments, replies, like, there's a lack of reading comprehension because people don't understand the nuances of vocabulary.

[V. Spear]

There's also people.

[Sammy Sage]

I think I've said this before.

[V. Spear]

Do you notice that people start using the same words and same phrases all the time? At one time, it was narrative. Now it's like, you know, like, there's always, like, some word that everybody uses.

[Sammy Sage]

It's also people because the algorithm pushes more extreme, like, more, I don't know, less nuanced content. People also talk in extremes. Everything's always, sometimes, always, never everyone, like, all the time. It's. That's not how it is. Like, most. There's billions of people in this world. Pretty much nothing applies to everybody.

[V. Spear]

Right? Yeah. So, I mean, that's. That's my American fever dream right now, trying to rebuild vocabulary because, yeah, it's important. Left behind.

[Sammy Sage]

I think we've been left behind. But look, I think there has to be a pendulum swing to reason and nuance eventually. And people who, like, don't want to use ChatGPT.

[V. Spear]

I know.

[Sammy Sage]

Like, I think that when there's so much AI slop, humanity shines through more because it can't capture. I saw this tweet that was like. The thing that's funny about most Photoshop jokes is that somebody took a stupid idea seriously enough to invest the time to make it. If you use AI, it's just like, yeah, I guess that's what it would look like. And it's like, yeah, you don't. You can't do satire. Can't do, like, visual gags.

[V. Spear]

And this all ratchets up to. I mean, I'm doing my Harvard fellowship thing now. I imagine kids who are in college right now are having the same experience where the professors and the teachers that I talk to are so smart. And then when I have to hand something in, I'm like, I have, like, humiliation, fear that my grammar's gonna be off, that my words aren't right, that I don't know how to interact with them. So I end up just, like, sort of trying to, like, copy Gen Z stare. I. Gen Z Stare them. Exactly. And so it's like, I'm realizing that this is happening to me. It's happening to you. We need to work on it. And I do think it comes back to, like, just having in real life experiences. Like, we have to get offline and maybe I'll post On the Instagram, that book that I bought that helps you with your vocabulary. For anyone else struggling because it's frustrating.

[Sammy Sage]

Mornings, it's what we do.

[V. Spear]

With my niece, who's three, right, she has difficulty expressing her emotions. So what does she do? She throws a toy because she doesn't have the right words. I'm doing the same thing as a 42 year old. I can't find the word. So I'm like lashing out. And that's what everybody's doing. And so it's like, okay, we have to just sort of like recognize that's the root of the issue. And now we know how to fix it. But let's move on.

[Sammy Sage]

We're doing on Jubilee.

[V. Spear]

Jubilee. Jubilee is not the answer. Maybe we should make one. But let's move on to another thing that's maddening and frustrating and never going away are getting better. Jeffrey Epstein. We are never moving on. Despite Trump's desperate attempts to get people to move on. This is going to kill.

[Sammy Sage]

Never moving on.

[V. Spear]

Epstein gave him cankles. I mean, this has really put him in congestive heart failure and we have to keep it up.

[Sammy Sage]

We just have to know it gave us his cankles. Because he only would ever talk about this chronic condition that we've seen he's had for a minute. Because everyone's talking about Jeffrey Epstein. And let me just say, I'm not letting this go. Not just because of him, because there are dozens, at least, of people who remain influential to this day, powerful decision makers who are advising, you know, some of the, you know, most important people figures at this time, and they are part of this, or maybe they're not part of it and their name, you know, has, you know, muddy murkiness around it. And this is fucked up. If anyone gives a fuck about bodily autonomy, if you care about kids, if you care about people who need things like food assistance and Medicaid, these are the people who Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell trafficked. If you want to hold people accountable, if you want to sideline the gerontocracy for things that they deserve to be held accountable for, this is how to do it.

[V. Spear]

This is. Well, I mean, it's a, it's a great reason for term limits and like you said, sidelining the gerontocracy, there's a reason why Nancy Pelosi went on TV the other day and said, the Epstein thing is a distraction. We shouldn't be doing it. Bitch has been around.

[Sammy Sage]

Now I'm just like, oh, now I'm.

[V. Spear]

Like, are you on it now?

[Sammy Sage]

I'm like, well, what did you have to do with this now? Because why is it a distraction? You fit. Yes.

[V. Spear]

Because you knew that's the thing. Whether it's built. Because she has all.

[Sammy Sage]

With the tech people.

[V. Spear]

The tech people.

[Sammy Sage]

Or in San Francisco, her district.

[V. Spear]

Right. So I mean.

[Sammy Sage]

And I'm sure, you know, maybe like. Like I don't want to speculate because I just think that's worth it.

[V. Spear]

There's actual people we know. Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

But I'm sure many people who donated.

[V. Spear]

To her because around with health care companies, heads of tech entrepreneurship things JP Morgan knew. Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

There are banks. And the US Government facilitated the resale of his Mexico New Mexico ranch to an unknown again.

[V. Spear]

So there's a.

[Sammy Sage]

There's a. Yeah, that's what I've been thinking.

[V. Spear]

There's a creator in New Mexico. She goes by history in 60. She's incredible. She's incredible. She does everything New Mexico. And I've been watching her things because she's been covering the Zorro Ranch since 2020. 2020 21. Since forever. She has the video tour of the mansion. She has the background on the. The governor of New Mexico who allowed for the sale of this.

[Sammy Sage]

Bill Richards of this.

[V. Spear]

Yes. Because it's not just the ranch. They built a whole town around Epstein's ranch has its own fire department, ambulance, town hall, everything, public works. So that it would be a completely isolated space where he could do whatever it is that he does. Now the thing that concerns me is this is not the only time that something like this has been brought up. And if we bring it to today, because we could sensationalize about what Epstein did. But we have to mirror it to the actual threats of right now. Elon Musk does this trying to build a company town where he has his whole own infrastructure and he has his whole own place that he lives on. And everybody can do whatever they want. But they are wanting these secluded spaces that are supported by local and federal government that allow them to act with autonomy above the law, whatever weird thing is they want to do there. I'm not saying Elon Musk was involved with Epstein. I don't. I've not seen that he was. But he wants this sort of. This idea. They're using the Epstein model of how do I create my own little like Warren Jeff's oasis for me to do weird shit on. Even though, you know, Warren Jeffs and Epstein were raping kids. Elon Musk and some of these other billionaires are trying to create freedom Cities and company towns again.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, they also. What Epstein wanted to do with Zorro Ranch reportedly was he wanted to turn it into essentially a surrogacy farm for himself so that he could perpetuate what his genes that he believed were superior. And that tied into all his philanthropy washing with all these scientists studying, like, transhumanism and, you know, quantum physics. That's. And he supported all that to make himself look like this brilliant thinker and this, you know, real. This guy who's really ahead of his time and he contributes millions of dollars.

[V. Spear]

Not in his own money. And it's not his own money. It was Wexner's money.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. I mean, we could do a whole dive into Les Wexner, but it was.

[V. Spear]

All lawyers for that. Sammy.

[Sammy Sage]

You're right, it was. Whatever. And I hope someone's working on it that, yeah, like, these people are still in charge. They're still benefiting, they're still living free. They have been. Some of whom have been named by victims, some of whom haven't a lot. Donald Trump says he wants to have the grand jury documents unsealed and everything related to Epstein, but that is a front. That is a farce.

[V. Spear]

Do you know why he said that specifically, though?

[Sammy Sage]

Because he knows that he. That he's not.

[V. Spear]

He's not in that. It's the 2006 grand jury that they're going to release, which it came out with the one charge of prostitution. Not only is he trying to, like, as if children can be prostitutes, honestly, like, that whole thing was fucked, but he is trying to say we're going to release the grand jury. Right. Because grand jury, to the average person, again, vocabulary gap is. Sounds like, oh, it must be. Everything must be big. It's not from the 2006 indictment for the 2008 arrest, where he only was charged with one count of prostitution. Because they're going to make it seem like what Epstein's whole thing was. Oh, it's really just this one stupid little thing. He's got Matt Gates coming in on this. Come on. It's because these people know the formula. They know the formula for how to get away with the things they do. So different folks are using the Zorro ranch formula to continue to operate with autonomy in cities and states. I mean, even the Montana ranch that Rupert Murdoch and his son have, that's completely secluded from the. From. It's like shielded. Different, I'm saying.

[Sammy Sage]

But everyone knows what that rich people.

[V. Spear]

Have these enclaves that are shielded from local and federal law. Mark Zuckerberg has it in Hawaii, right. They all have these little enclaves. I'm not saying they're doing trafficking at the enclave. I'm saying they've created these pathways to over to loopholes in the law that allow them to operate with autonomy and do evil shit.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, it's that and they're also afraid of the revolution coming for that. I know that was what's in the.

[V. Spear]

Pay your workers and you wouldn't have to worry so much. You guys got it.

[Sammy Sage]

That's what's really wild. And that was in the haves and have yachts book that I read. I don't remember if I talked about it on here, but it was such a good book. Highly recommend it. And yeah, they're afraid. So they're building bunkers and like underground compounds so they can Russia escape and then they have to have enough room for their pilot and their family because they're going to. They need someone to fly them there in the case of the revolution. And it's like, why don't you just.

[V. Spear]

Like if, why don't you guys stop being assholes.

[Sammy Sage]

Why don't we have relax about the wealth tax.

[V. Spear]

Go go to like go to the culpit. Go to England like JD Vance, go to Disneyland, be on vacation every other week. That boy is working hard. I'll tell you. J.D. vance, hardest working man in shady politics. They're signing the big beautiful bill. He's in Disneyland with his parent, with his kids and he didn't, he didn't put his name on that bill. He let Tom Cotton sign that bad boy. They're having all this problem with Epstein. I'm going to England with my family. I. He's meeting with Murdoch any second now. I'm telling you, the Wall Street Journal is going to be the one that takes Trump out because they're going to slow drip humiliate him to death.

[Sammy Sage]

I think there are a lot of journalists working on this.

[V. Spear]

Oh sure.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Question. What's your reasoning or why do you think that Ghislaine Maxwell doesn't just offer some information or.

[V. Spear]

I learned. So we're, we're, we're tight with Tara Palmeri now. She's going to. She was on my show last night. If you're listening to this on Tuesday. She was on the substack last night. Night. She's. Oh good.

[Sammy Sage]

I want to hear. I've been listening to her show about the Maxwells. Highly recommend.

[V. Spear]

Yes. The max Tara Palmary. Google her watch and everything that she's ever done because she has been reporting on this with Julie K. Brown. They've been working together mostly for so many years, and people have just, like, absolutely ignored it, and it's like, it's all right there. So she's sort of just like retalking about. She said four years ago. Even so, the Maxwell thing, we tend to talk about Epstein so much and not about Ghislaine, because she sort of gets sidelined as. Oh, she was the recruiter. She worked for him. No, she operated with a lot of autonomy and she did rape a lot of people. She. She was a part of the abuse, too. She did all that shit too.

[Sammy Sage]

She was the. She was actually the validator. She was the validator because he couldn't get these people himself. Who's gonna just listen to him? He. It was her.

[V. Spear]

Ghislaine, remember, has only been in jail since 2022 now, so she. This has not been that long. She's been in for two, three years, which is a long. It's a long time to go to jail, but it's not that long for a woman with her resilience, I guess we'll call it, with her fortitude for pain and torture. So reason why she hasn't talked yet is because she thinks she's still going to get out. She thinks that she'll get a pardon or she'll get out. If she talks, she'll get killed or she'll stay there forever. She thinks that she has leverage enough to get herself out. What they're doing right now, first, when she first went into this prison, she's in a Tallahassee prison, first of all, even though she was convicted in New York, she's in the Tallahassee women's prison where that Russian spy who was part of the 2016 Russian interference into our election, was that where Lauren Handy, the woman who was the abortion. Anti abortion advocate who had five fetuses in her freezer, she was down there, Trump pardoned. Lauren hasn't pardoned Ghislaine yet. When Ghislaine first went into this prison, she was put in what was called the snake pit. It's the worst part of the prison to be housed in. It's, like, very disgusting. And she was able to somehow get herself put into the Honors Dorm and was allowed to get a job at the library. So every day she gets a personal security escort to and from her job at the library, where she gets to read books and hang out in the library. And then she lives in the Honors Dorm, which is the lowest security, nicest part of the prison. It's still prison, but it's nice. And so she is essentially, I think, not speaking because she is getting special treatment in prison right now. That is making her stay a little bit more comfortable. Certainly not as comfortable as she's used to, but I think that she is being taken care of in there, and that's why she hasn't spoken yet. So now, Alan Dershowitz last night or two nights ago said that the federal government needs to give. Ghislaine needs to commute her sentence. Don't give her a pardon because she did it. Commute her sentence and then give her immunity and she'll come and testify in front of Congress and say everything she knows about everyone. Now, of course, that's going to be a highly curated testimony, but Dershowitz is now trying to get her out and dangling this carrot for Congress that if you give her immunity, she'll spill her guts. That's why she hasn't spoke yet.

[Sammy Sage]

If it comes from Alan Dershowitz, his mouth, it is the fruit of the poison tree. Because this band is named. He is named multiple times. He lost or. Sorry. He settled a lawsuit with Virginia Giuffre where she accused him.

[V. Spear]

250,000.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[V. Spear]

So 450,000. Sorry. It was almost half a million dollars he had to pay her. Yep.

[Sammy Sage]

If he really was not involved in that, he would have fought that to the end. This is also a man who wrote an editorial in print in a. In a paper arguing that the age of consent should not be a thing. That actually the, you know, people, women who are teenagers, basically, they look like they're of age. If they look like they're of age, it's acceptable. Is essentially his argument.

[V. Spear]

And he says this one. He says that based on the Bible and, and based on religion and based on, like, past precedents of history, the idea of an 18 year old age of consent is arbitrary. Literally. This is what they're saying. They're saying it's okay. Like, they're being more open about it.

[Sammy Sage]

Now, the Bible is arbitrary.

[V. Spear]

Like.

[Sammy Sage]

Like you are. Okay, that's nice. I don't care. Like, I don't care what the Bible says. The Bible says that. I think it was. Rebecca was three when she got married. So is that what you're suggesting?

[V. Spear]

It's like that's what they're suggesting in Tennessee, which refuses to have an age of consent. Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Okay, so you just want permission to do whatever you want with women's bodies. And that's essentially what you're saying. So if, If Alan Dershowitz wants to offer Ghislaine Maxwell up for a congressional testimony. I somehow doubt that that will be a complete testimony.

[V. Spear]

Oh, no.

[Sammy Sage]

And I'm do not doubt that they have been in contact since he heard it here first.

[V. Spear]

Okay, this is the pathway. Sometimes we report on the news and what's happening, and sometimes I got to zoom it out and be like, okay, where are they going next? Like, if you're actually playing chess, not checkers, like they love to say, then you're not thinking about your next move. You're thinking about your fifth move from now.

[Sammy Sage]

Where are on the board is playing chess.

[V. Spear]

Oh, he is. That's why I'm saying he's moves ahead of whatever's going on now. And this is the pathway they're going to create for Ghislaine to get. Not a pardon, commuted sentence, because she did it. Now immunity. Now she gets to testify. It will only help Trump because she'll name people like Bill Clinton and she'll name Bill Gates, and, you know, they all love the Bill Gates conspiracies and all this crazy stuff. She'll name everybody, she'll say crazy shit, and then she'll be out the door. And Virginia Giuffre is dead. Jean Luc is dead, who was Jeffrey Epstein's other collaborator. And Epstein's dead, and she'll. She'll hightail it up. This is a woman who survives. This is a cockroach of a fucking person, okay? She will survive this apocalypse, and she'll do what she needs to do, and she'll hightail it back to France.

[Sammy Sage]

They all are. They all like that.

[V. Spear]

She is just a master class in cockroachery. She will survive.

[Sammy Sage]

The most interesting thing is, I think, what will happen to Donald Trump, I.

[V. Spear]

Think he'll have a heart attack before he ever gets held accountable. I think the stress of this is just going to put him absolutely out. Because what we're learning is MAGA does not care that much about him. We've seen the pictures, we've seen the videos, we've seen the birthday cards. We've seen all the different things. And they continue to sort of try to, like, compartmentalize that part of it, because they want some other list of whatever. MAGA does not want the Epstein list. They want to ogle the crime scene and the body. They want a data dump that allows them to just, like, pick and choose and cherry pick all the things that they want to make content about. They don't want accountability. They want content. They want fodder. They want their conspiracy Theories and their little fucking weirdo groups to have more things to spin on. And they are sick. They want the. The victim porn of what the Epstein documents, videos and photos contain. And that only further exploits and re. Victimizes the girls who were girls at the time who are now women who have not been publicly named. Many of them didn't want to come out. Live private lives. That is what they want. And so it's like, you know, this Ghislaine Maxwell thing is going to work because the Republicans are going to be like, oh, well, she'll come and spill. And it's like, yeah, she'll come and spill and revict victimized and. And gratify herself on all of that re. Victimization because she's a sick weirdo. And they all are. And that's my.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, what I'm. What I think, though, is that there are some people who are never going to let it go. I think that in terms of how Donald Trump ends up, I think. Do you ever see the movie Match Point by Woody Allen?

[V. Spear]

Oh, God, another one.

[Sammy Sage]

Do you ever see that?

[V. Spear]

No.

[Sammy Sage]

Okay, well, it's whatever. There's this really, like, salient image of, you know, a tetanus ball where it hits the net and it's like, which way will it fall? That's how I feel about this situation. Like it could go either way. And I think that it's very much like not a predetermined situation where a lot of times you have things where like, I see where they're gonna take that, I see what they're gonna try to do. And this, I think, is a bit more of a wild card.

[V. Spear]

We gotta see where the media is gonna fall on this, the right wing media. And if Lachlan Murdoch is more aligned with the Peter Thiel, then we'll see a J.D. vance presidency more quickly. I also think there was a rally. Trump still does rallies. I didn't realize this. There was a rally this weekend somewhere and somebody brought in a picture. How did you get this in? Huge poster size of Donald Trump and Epstein. And it, it. He saw it from stage and pointed it out and said, get that guy out of here.

[Sammy Sage]

Honestly, I think we're going to see because it's also. There could be other people out there who were victims who've never come forward. Melania, maybe they're going to come now. No, come on.

[V. Spear]

Melania knew Epstein before she knew Trump. Her modeling agent got her with Epstein. Epstein. And it was part of the, like her meeting Trump. And in 2000 they did a practice run on her being first lady in the year 2000, when she was just Ms. Noss. When she was just the girlfriend, they did a practice run on what a Trump run for presidency would look like and how she would be cast as the First Lady.

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[V. Spear]

In 2000, when she was just the girlfriend they were, this was the first time that Trump said maybe he would run for president. Okay. And it was this idea of, like, would she be the right first lady? Could this idea of a model, a Miss usa, be cast as the first lady? And would that further make him look better? Right, because he'd have this supermodel Miss America, which he's always been very jealous of. That's why at the Miss USA pageant, different than Miss America, he would have this Miss America and Mr. America. And it's all part of the fucking game. And Epstein was in on building that whole thing out. So they did like a practice run. I forget what state they were in. Might have been New Mexico. And they did like a rally and tried to get Trump to speak to a crowd about politics and had her stand there and saw how it was going to go. I'll post it on the substack that the. The coverage from a local journalist in the year 2000. I'm pretty sure it was New Mexico. About this, like, practice political rally that Trump was going to do that.

[Sammy Sage]

Very interesting. It's something I do want to call just that I've noticed is that so much of this was. Was enabled by the fact that there was not social media. And given how much evidence there is of Donald Trump being with Jeffrey Epstein in an age where there was no social media, it's. I think that people are expecting that there is going to be like 20, 25 standards of evidence of them being together. But no, you got to look.

[V. Spear]

You got to look.

[Sammy Sage]

There had to be a news crew that was willing to be where they were to capture them together.

[V. Spear]

You're exactly. Or photographers did not do this shit. If we actually, I'm remembering now if we actually want to look for evidence. We need to look to the rag magazines. You gotta look at People magazine when Donald Trump was being photographed for that and see how many times he was of Epstein and what he was doing, where he was going, local news, who was talking about this fake political rally they put on to practice him running for president. Stuff like that's gonna be where you find it. Now. He was my keynote speaker for my graduation from Wagner College in 2004. And Melania was there. They were not. They maybe. I don't think they were married yet. I think they were engaged when that happened. And she came and was very much like floated in. Like they had her like Princess Diana set up and she sat and she performed well and he pointed to her and people cheered about her. She was a literal trophy wife. She gave him a lot of shine on his dirty, scummy ness. Right. And then the Apprentice was out at that time and she was sort of like involved in that. And this was the, the reimagining of what Donald Trump was.

[Sammy Sage]

I do want to call one attention, you know, speaking of presidential spouses to Hillary Clinton, because can you imagine what she feels like right now? She got by two presidents by her. Here's the thing, she can't even say anything because her husband is involved in this. It is so clear. And it's also, it's also when Epstein started hanging out with Bill Clinton that people started becoming aware of Jeffrey Epstein. That's when people were like, who's this guy? So she got screwed by Bill Clinton and then she got screwed by Donald Trump and continue. Like, I cannot even imagine how pissed she must be. Like, if I were her, I would just be like, I would need to enter a rage room every morning to start my day. Just. It's so fucking unfair.

[V. Spear]

It is so unhappy. She, I mean, she, she, she stayed with him, so she's, she's got it. But the way that, the pressure. I don't think there's any woman in the world or mother in the world who probably has endured what Hillary Clinton has when it comes to scandals and bullshit from your husband and also the attacks on your child. Chelsea Clinton was ridiculed from the day she was born. She wasn't pretty enough, she wasn't smart enough. She wasn't this enough. She wasn't that enough. Constantly they were on Chelsea Clinton and that. That's your kid. You know, like, it's just. Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

I do just want to say, like, we. What, what this all represents for me is. And why this is all coming to a head right now while we have, you know, the quote unquote male loneliness epidemic. When you have these psycho kids then off many of them going on jubilee, saying that they are proudly fascists. I feel that this is like the end result of just like a deeply patriarchal way of thinking. And what you have now also with like the gender gap in dating and women, like not wanting to get married as much, is that these men are mad that they can't just have their way with women of any age at any time. And that's what they can't. They're reacting to. They're. There's just this deep emotional immaturity where these old men want to be with young women who are, or no, not even young women. They want to be with teenagers. Like, all of them are emotionally arrested at age 16. And they want a world where they can just get whatever they want. They get to decide who's the. Who's the president, who's the autocrat. Yeah, sure, they're fine with autocracy as long as they get that. They're fine with men who are 50 or 80 raping or younger, Younger, like. And then, you know, letting them maintain positions of power, like, that's what this is. They're just mad.

[V. Spear]

Look at Bill Belichick right now. Bill Belichick, one of the most revered football coaches ever, completely legacy destroyed by having to be with super young girl who's crazy and all this stuff. Here's my thing. They call it the male loneliness epidemic. They're like, men are so lonely. Women don't want them. They can't have this, they can't have that. Ain't no lesbian loneliness epidemic. So it is you guys. Okay? Right? Because what do we say? We say there's a mask shortage. There's not enough lesbians to meet other lesbians because we're so unlonely, because we treat women normally. So it's like your male loneliness epidemic. If it was truly gender and relationship based, lesbians would be having the same problem. And we don't have those problems because we provide basic decency and we say, hey, I'd like to date you. Here's what I offer. Here's what you offer. I'd like to be an equal partner. If you take the trash out, I'll put the bag back in the can. It is as simple as that. And I don't know, maybe I should go back to teaching, like social dynamics or something. Like in my frigging early days where it's like there are just women are genuinely willing to accept the bare minimum. Fellas, okay, at least do that and then dazzle them by doing a little bit more. But they don't. What they do is they get old, they get sick of their first wife and then they want to start over at 20. And now they think they should be able to because they're like all the things they couldn't afford and they couldn't get when they were younger, whatever hot girl they thought they deserve, whatever model, whatever lifestyle, they're like, well, now I can pay for it, so I can buy it and I can own it. Another reason to topple the gerontocracy. Fellas, if you're lonely and you're in your 20s, 30s, and 40s, it's because the boomers are still stealing your women, if you want to call it that way. They're stealing the women of your generation because societally and economically women many times have to choose somebody that could provide for them or the life that they want to have. And you can't because of the gerontocracy. So there's no male loneliness epidemic. There is a patriarchal epidemic that is affecting you in the way that you can't compete. You're not getting a raise, you're not getting that job because those people don't retire.

[Sammy Sage]

Or a house.

[V. Spear]

Or a house. All right?

[Sammy Sage]

And the thing, the thing is be.

[V. Spear]

Nice to girls and don't vote for old men. That's all. It's all you got to do that.

[Sammy Sage]

It's, that's, that's the thing. It's like they want, they want. And, and you have 25 year old men who want to be able to treat women like the way that those 50 year old, 60 year old men treat that same girl, but they're paying her. That's the difference is that they want.

[V. Spear]

Her and they don't want to. They also nest there. They, that's another thing plays into the boy.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes, yes. They expect the women to because they're emotionally arrested. Many of them, not all. I don't want to say we're talking about the problem.

[V. Spear]

We're not talking about Avi and the nice guys.

[Sammy Sage]

No, I'm talking about the, I'm talking about like the trends of the, of that, like that feeling sorry for themselves. But actually they have been economically screwed and socially screwed. But there's also this part of like, how can you expect them to mature when there's no means for them to mature? But then they're expecting mothers from the women and the women have choices and that's what they're mad about. So they're trying to politically make it so the women cannot have those choices, so that they have to be chained to them and then make tradwife content. So that seems appealing.

[V. Spear]

I remember when I met my wife and we were just dating, and I had this thought, and this is why there's not a. We don't have this problem in the lesbian community. I was dating her, and I knew she was a cellist and a soloist, and I knew that she was super educated and very smart. She's very pretty. And I was like, how am I going to afford this? And she's like, I hate when you say that. I never asked for that. And I'm like, but in my soul, I was like, I really want to make sure I love this girl so much. I really want to make sure that she has a comfortable life, that she feels like I'm contributing as much as she is. And, like, I respect her profession and, like, everything that goes into it. Cello is expensive. Like, what are we going to do for kids? Like, who's going to stay home? How are we going to do this? You have to think that way. You have to look at the woman that you love and be like, how do I afford this? Economically, emotionally, sexually, whatever the case may be. But it is on you to do that work or you're. Or that's why you're lonely.

[Sammy Sage]

Scott Galloway is writing a book about masculinity, and he talks about this a lot. He talks about how it's. It's about, like, the protection. It's like, if you want to be masculine, you. And you want to feel like that big man, you have to show up in that way and make it happen. But again, the reason that it's difficult is because that generation has been so disadvantaged in this way. And the people like Joe Rogan who are exploiting them are incredibly wealthy. And so they can. Can act like this and old and they can act like this.

[V. Spear]

And, well, that's what pisses me off. They also don't have. They got rich sooner. But it's like the boomer, the older generation has the power and the money and the whatever. Then we have this, like, 40s and 50s. People like Andrew from the Flagrant Show, Andrew Tate and Joe Rogan, who are still making men just younger than them, think, oh, you're almost there. Look at me, I'm 42. You're almost there. You're almost there. You gotta listen to me. And then you'll be almost there. Give Me your money, and then you'll be almost there. I'll teach you the keys to success, and then you'll be the next person to get it. And it's like, you're never gonna get it. They're exploiting you, too. When I found out that Andrew from flagrant was 42 years old, I was like. Because he. I thought he was like 25, 26. Because he acts and he surrounds himself by such young people that I was like, he's married and has daughters. Like, yeah, it's such a show. Like Andrew from Flagrant, I was shocked because I thought he. I think I felt like he sort of models himself as a young person. And then it's like, look how successful I am. Just do what I am. Listen to what I'm listening to. And I'm like, you are living two lives, my boy. You are not an authentic person.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, I mean, they're. They're all making a show. They're all making a show. Always Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones. It's all a show. They know.

[V. Spear]

Mr. Beast. Mr. Beast is very unhappy. Apparently he doesn't like what he's created for him himself. He finds it very difficult because the.

[Sammy Sage]

Because the Internet is soul sucking. Unless you really do use it like an Internet company.

[V. Spear]

Philip DeFranco, Hank Green, they're married guys, nice guys, successful, normal dudes, good dads.

[Sammy Sage]

Look, it's not impossible to. To use the Internet and make money on it and be a normal person. Like, I think that, like, I have. We do somewhat succeeded in that. But I do think there's an element of, like, first of all, women don't get as high as men in, in media, digital media. Like, think about how many male giants you can name and how many women are there? Just way fewer and they're not as big. And I think part of that is that, like, they can avail themselves of the algorithmic advantages so they can exploit them better. Women can do that, but it doesn't take you to the same heights.

[V. Spear]

Usually it takes you to jail, like Ghislaine Maxwell.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[V. Spear]

Or it takes you to jail, like Elizabeth Holme. So.

[Sammy Sage]

So women, I think, can use it a little bit. You know, obviously there's exploitation, but I do think that many women are more organic in how they use the Internet because there's not as much, like, money behind it to.

[V. Spear]

And we have friendships that are extremely vulnerable and emotional. Right. So, like, we're going to hang up from this. Hang up. We're going to hang up from this podcast and we're going to text all day. I've got like 16 different group chats, right? And then I chat chit chat with the lady who lives next door across the fence. Like, again, it's about that in real life connection. And it's more important than ever, especially for men.

[Sammy Sage]

Also, think about how when women try to monetize their content, people are like, oh, like you should. Yeah, yeah, she. Blah, blah, blah. But then just, oh, of course you get that bag.

[V. Spear]

We should start selling protein powder. Our next show is going to be Toxic Bitches.

[Sammy Sage]

Next week. Next week.

[V. Spear]

Next week we become fully unhinged. Next week is our last episode where we'll be talking about even more women who have gone to jail over things that Donald Trump has called a hoax. So why women are held accountable. We'll have more hot takes for you next week. This was super fun.

[Sammy Sage]

So fun. Next week I want to hear about Plymouth Rock.

[V. Spear]

Yeah. Oh. Biggest scam in American history. Plymouth Rock. Tune in next week for that. Until next time, I'm V. Spear.

[Sammy Sage]

And I'm Sammy Sage.

[V. Spear]

And this is American Fever Dream. Good night.

[Sammy Sage]

Betches.