The Senate's Medicaid Meltdown & How to Stay Sane Ft. Mallory McMorrow

Summary

Podcast Summary: American Fever Dream Episode: The Senate's Medicaid Meltdown & How to Stay Sane Ft. Mallory McMurrow
Release Date: July 1, 2025
Hosts: V. Spehar and Sami Sage
Guest: Mallory McMurrow, Michigan State Senator and 2026 U.S. Senate Candidate

---

1. Pride Celebrations and Personal Experiences

Timestamp: [01:11] – [05:36]

The episode opens with V. Spehar and Sami Sage reflecting on their experiences during Pride celebrations. V. shares a personal anecdote about facing homophobic remarks, revealing her discomfort with stereotypical symbols associated with Pride:

V. Spehar [02:02]: "I over the weekend chipped my elbow... I am living in my shame era. This is a stereotype that no one should have to endure."

Sami empathizes with V.'s feelings and adds her perspective on the complexities of identifying with Pride events:

Sammy Sage [02:28]: "If it lives in your heart at all times."

They discuss the overwhelming nature of Pride parades, especially for those who are more reserved, and the challenges of expressing one's identity authentically.

---

2. The Senate's Medicaid Meltdown

Timestamp: [07:22] – [09:34]

V. and Sami delve into the critical issue of the Senate's attempt to pass a significant bill over the weekend, which would strip Medicaid from 16 million Americans. V. highlights the urgency and the deceit involved:

V. Spehar [08:14]: "They were trying to push the big beautiful bill through... to show this is how it shuts down Medicaid."

Sami underscores the severe consequences of the bill, emphasizing the financial burden it would place on the nation:

Sammy Sage [09:08]: "They are choosing to create another three and a half trillion dollars in debt... and the billionaires get another trillion dollars in tax cuts."

The hosts express skepticism about the bill’s prospects, despite its detrimental impact, portraying a grim outlook on legislative maneuvers.

---

3. Maintaining Sanity: Digital Detox and Mental Health

Timestamp: [10:17] – [17:44]

Addressing the collective stress from the political climate and digital overload, Sami proposes adopting practices inspired by the Jewish tradition of Shabbat to improve mental health:

Sammy Sage [10:23]: "We need this in our lives because we need people to go touch grass and do things like spend time with other people without a phone."

V. adds her insights on disconnecting from technology to regain mental clarity:

V. Spehar [12:25]: "We've been rewatching shows from the early 2000s and 90s because they don't have phones on the show."

They explore practical solutions like "wireless weekend mornings" and apps such as "Brick" that disable distracting apps to help listeners manage screen time and foster real-life interactions.

---

4. Political Commentary: Technology, Oligarchy, and Economic Issues

Timestamp: [18:37] – [37:05]

The conversation shifts to the broader implications of technological advancements and their intersection with politics. V. criticizes tech leaders for losing their humanity:

V. Spehar [21:02]: "They are extremely paranoid... they've lost all their humanity."

Sami discusses the dangers of unregulated tech industries and the economic disparities exacerbated by policies favoring large corporations over small businesses:

Sammy Sage [30:00]: "They are not going to be able to make any sort of liability, you know, hold any companies liable from the state."

Both hosts emphasize the need for regulatory frameworks to prevent monopolistic practices and ensure equitable economic growth.

---

5. Interview with Mallory McMurrow: Michigan Politics and Campaigning

Timestamp: [37:05] – [57:23]

Introduction of Guest: The episode features Mallory McMurrow, a Michigan State Senator running for the U.S. Senate in 2026. Sami describes Mallory as "one of the few politicians who feels relatable and genuine."

Key Discussion Points:

• Michigan's Political Landscape: Mallory discusses the shift in Michigan's voters, noting a significant "buyer's remorse" among those who supported Trump or Alyssa Slotkin:

  Mallory McMurrow [23:19]: "People are looking for anybody to stand up and fight back."

• Campaign Strategies: She shares her innovative approach of engaging voters through a statewide brewery tour, aiming to connect with constituents in a relaxed setting:

  Mallory McMurrow [24:08]: "We're trying to do something very different, bring people into this... grab a beer and get to know me."

• Challenges Under Republican Majority: Reflecting on her tenure in a predominantly Republican Senate, Mallory highlights the importance of narrative and media presence in combating misinformation:

  Mallory McMurrow [41:13]: "We built out a media calendar and a strategy for the rest of the year... raised millions of dollars and flipped control of the state Senate."

• Communication and Authenticity: Mallory emphasizes the necessity of relatable and transparent communication, drawing from her background in media:

  Mallory McMurrow [43:48]: "Use simple language... talk about everything like you would talk to your friend at a bar."

• Vision for the Democratic Party: She outlines her vision centered around "Success, Safety, and Sanity," advocating for policies that support economic mobility, healthcare, and mental well-being:

  Mallory McMurrow [53:13]: "Success, safety, and sanity... it's not just getting by, it's normal success where you can go on vacation, afford a house, and have free time."

• Combatting the Oligarchy: Addressing the influence of tech giants and wealthy elites, Mallory calls for stringent regulations and ethical reforms:

  Mallory McMurrow [30:26]: "They have the power to write legislation, conduct oversight... getting rid of all of that for the next decade."

Notable Quotes:

• Mallory McMurrow [41:27]: "This administration did... security theater, immigration raids... that's not what I voted for."
• Mallory McMurrow [45:06]: "Tell them what it does for them in their language, in their mindset."

Closing Remarks: Mallory encourages listeners to support her campaign through donations and volunteer efforts, highlighting the importance of grassroots movements in enacting political change.

Mallory McMurrow [56:50]: "You can find us at mcmarrowfrommichigan.com... share our kick ass video content."

---

Conclusion

In this episode of American Fever Dream, V. Spehar and Sami Sage navigate through personal stories of navigating Pride, the alarming developments in Senate healthcare legislation, and strategies for maintaining mental well-being amidst political chaos. The highlight is an in-depth interview with Mallory McMurrow, who shares her transformative journey in Michigan politics and her vision for a revitalized Democratic agenda centered on tangible success and community engagement. Listeners are left with actionable insights on political activism, self-care, and the importance of authentic communication in today's tumultuous landscape.

---

Notable Quotes:

1. V. Spehar [02:02]: "I am living in my shame era. This is a stereotype that no one should have to endure."
2. Sammy Sage [09:08]: "They are choosing to create another three and a half trillion dollars in debt... and the billionaires get another trillion dollars in tax cuts."
3. Sammy Sage [10:23]: "We need people to go touch grass and do things like spend time with other people without a phone."
4. Mallory McMurrow [53:13]: "Success, safety, and sanity... it's not just getting by, it's normal success where you can go on vacation, afford a house, and have free time."
5. Mallory McMurrow [43:48]: "Use simple language... talk about everything like you would talk to your friend at a bar."

---

Connect with the Hosts and Guest:

• Betches Media: YouTube - American Fever Dream
• Mallory McMurrow: mcmarrowfrommichigan.com

---

Note: This summary captures the essence of the podcast episode, highlighting key discussions and memorable quotes to provide an insightful overview for those who haven't listened.

Transcript

[Shopify Representative]

If you've shopped online, chances are you've bought from a business powered by Shopify. You know that purple shop pay button you see at checkout? The one that makes buying so incredibly easy? That's Shopify. And there's a reason so many businesses sell with it. Because Shopify makes it incredibly easy to start and run your own business. Shopify is the commerce platform behind 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. Shopify's got you from the get go with beautiful ready to go templates to match your brand style. Tackle all the important tasks in one place from inventory to payments to analytics and more. Spread your brand's word with built in marketing and email tools to find and keep new customers. And did I mention that iconic purple shop pay button that's used by millions of businesses around the world? It's why Shopify has the best converting checkout on the planet. Your customers already love it. If you want to see less cards being abandoned, it's time for you to head over to Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start sell selling today at shopify.com batches go to shopify.com batches shopify.com.

[Sammy Sage]

Batches.

[V. Spear]

Rise and shine Fever dreamers. Look alive my friends. I'm V. Spear.

[Sammy Sage]

And I'm Sammy Sage.

[V. Spear]

And this is American Fever Dream, presented by Batches News, the show that keeps.

[Sammy Sage]

Trying to hide the old democratic playbook, but they always seem to find it again.

[V. Spear]

The worst. The worst.

[Sammy Sage]

The worst.

[V. Spear]

Sammy, it is. We were recording this on the last day of pride and I have to say, every year at the end of pride, the most homophobic things happen. And something has happened to me that I, I'm not sure you're aware of, but I over the weekend chipped my elbow like I've hurt myself and there is nothing more stereotypically butch than a middle aged lesbian in a CVS sports bracelet. I am living in my shame era. This is a stereotype that no one should have to endure. And here I am on the last day of pride, living my truth.

[Sammy Sage]

Right? And tomorrow when you turn into a pumpkin, yes, to be even weirder, tomorrow.

[V. Spear]

When I turn back into a trad wife. It's just, I don't think that it's going to be tolerable. I just, I'm not sure what I'm going to do.

[Sammy Sage]

But how was your pride generally?

[V. Spear]

Well, it was fine. You know, my pride is every day I'm not like A Pride parade person.

[Sammy Sage]

My belief on these things is, like, if you give it a month, month, or a day, then they can take it away from you. Well, yes, but if it lives in your heart at all times.

[V. Spear]

It is. Yes, it does. And pride has always been, for me, something that I like. I love it for other people, but for me, it's like a lot of rings and feathers on parade, and it freak. It get. You know, and that. So I used to always work on pride in New York City because you. I was like, you know, working in restaurants, you make good money. I love everybody expressing themselves, but for me, I'm like a shy gay. I don't know. I'm like a shy gay. I guess.

[Sammy Sage]

I. I get what you mean. And I wonder if it doesn't have much to do with being shy or about being gay as much as it just has to do with being shy about being too much of, like, a fan of something. Like, too much into something.

[V. Spear]

Yeah. Like, I've never dressed up for a concert either.

[Sammy Sage]

That's what I. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[V. Spear]

I don't.

[Sammy Sage]

It's like that. It's like that sort of.

[V. Spear]

I'm not. But I did try to do a gay thing yesterday. So I have this tank top that I love from March for the Movement that says we the people. And it's a black tank top. It says we the people in rainbow print. And. And I did pair that with some cargo shorts yesterday, and my new spiky hair, and I had no makeup on and whatever. And I came downstairs dressed, and my wife was like, are you. What are you doing? And I'm like, well, it's pride. So I thought I would, like, you know, wear a little pride thing. And she was like, I think you would be surprised if you saw yourself in a picture right now. And I was like, natalie, she's like, I have never seen you look so gay. And we are running errands around Rochester, which is totally okay. But, like, I think you would be really surprised if you saw yourself in a picture picture right now. And I was like, I'm gonna go change.

[Sammy Sage]

That's an incredible insult. Sort of.

[V. Spear]

She's like, insult.

[Sammy Sage]

But are you sure she wasn't just surprised by the we the people thing?

[V. Spear]

I think it was the whole thing. I think it was the whole thing. But she's so cute, and she's like, I love you, and I love this outfit, and I do love that tank top. And I think it would be great for when we go to the Rochester Red Wings with all our friends. And we go to Pride night, but I'm just not sure that going to the garden center in Gates Chili today is going to be the best, best use of that costume.

[Sammy Sage]

Can I put on. Can I put in a request when you. Please put Don the next Pride costume?

[V. Spear]

Yes.

[Sammy Sage]

Nick's the we the people. It's just like, I don't know what side you're on.

[V. Spear]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Given how they're interpreting that document these.

[V. Spear]

Days, I was celebrating 10 years of gay pride under Obama, but that is also under attack. So I think you're right. The bills.

[Sammy Sage]

You can't read about any gay people.

[V. Spear]

No, you can't read about gay people, which is definitely going to make you gayer. I'm telling you, the more you try to make something a taboo, the more people want to do it. It's why millennials were so hot for heroin and drugs and everything, because we had dare and they showed up. Cops showed up with baggies. They were like, this is what it looks like. This is how you do it. Don't do it. This is what we do. This is how much money drug dealers are making. All the music was about the Bloods and the Crips and everything. I thought I was, like, gonna grow up and be Tupac. Okay. I was, like, living my, like, gangster life dreams as a millennial. And then you'd have the cops come in and be like, dare to stay off drugs. And I was like, I'm gonna try that stuff. I'm gonna try almost all that stuff.

[Sammy Sage]

I thought I'd be offered drugs, like, day in and day out. I also thought I'd be dying in quicksand or possibly disappearing into the Bermuda Triangle. So childhood is a weird time.

[V. Spear]

And now for the fever dream of today. We had a great interview with Mallory McMurrow, who is the coolest person alive, but also living a fever dream. How was it?

[Sammy Sage]

She actually is. She's. She. Right now, she's in the Michigan State Senate, and she's running for Senate in Michigan in 2026. And we chatted. Honestly, it feels like she's one of the few politicians, elected officials who. It really feels like I could have just been having any conversation with her in any other context. I feel like maybe it has to do with similar ages, similar outlooks, and, yeah, I think she's just a very, very lovely, lovely person.

[V. Spear]

You think she. So you think Michigan will go for two female senators? Question number one. Question number two. Is she a better balance to Slotkin, who people were, like, super hyped for, but now has Kind of like she's been doing old people stuff lately.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, the thing is, I think that that's what Michigan calls for. Michigan is a moderate state. It. That they're. What I think is maybe something that gets a little bit lost. And maybe this is getting a bit lost. I think in the conversations around Mamdani is like, he can be part of the party, but the thing with the big tent is that so do those other people need to be part of the party. And they have to be there in the way that their constituents expect them to be. You know, there's a reason that I think some of the, you know, more establishment figures, or honestly, not even more establishment figures. Alyssa Slotkin hasn't been in the Senate that long. Hakeem Jeffries is, you know, a newer leader. A newer leader.

[V. Spear]

He comes off the Pelosi dynasty, though. They all. It's like, did they take. Like we said at the beginning of the show, they took that playbook and they were like, okay, this is what I do. And it's like, no. And I get that, that Zoran needs to make room for everybody. It's a big tent, all that shit. But they didn't really make that much room for us and the super progressive side. So I'm like, look, man, you could be in it, but maybe you don't get to be. Maybe you don't get to sit in the front row of the roller coaster this time. Maybe we do know.

[Sammy Sage]

I completely agree. It's more, It's. But the thing is they can. They don't want the party to be looked at like that. The way. The same way that progressives don't want the whole party to be like hawkish moderates. What I would. Is what I would say. Or not even moderates. They're just sort of like Republicans. I would. They're. They're not Republicans. They're like Republicans are. They're not vote. None of these people are voting for the, the big beautiful bill.

[V. Spear]

Well, the Senate this week was in session because of course now we work on weekends in Trump's America. And they were all. So they started, they were trying to push the big beautiful bill through over the weekend because for some reason they think if they do it on the weekend, the American people aren't going to work up, wake up on Monday and recognize that like 16 million people got kicked off their Medicaid. So I don't know why they think they can sneak this through. It's obviously got massive repercussions. But they were trying to. They were Trying to get it passed. This weekend, Chuck Schumer calls for them to read all 960 pages of the bill, which is great because that took 15 hours. What is also great about that is I got clips of the pages reading it because it was on C Span and Cory Booker streamed it. So we have clips to be able to show. Okay, this is how it shuts down Medicaid. They can't say that they don't know what's in it. People are visual learners and I think having them read the bill aloud was one, a good stall tactic, but two, really great for social media.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes, I agree. I mean, the bill is very bad. It's still going to pass, though.

[V. Spear]

You think so?

[Sammy Sage]

But what's going to stop it?

[V. Spear]

I know. What. Well, I struggle with it, Sammy, honestly, because it is so bad and they lie so much. There. There was a senator who got up there and was like, 62% of people on Medicaid don't work. They're sitting home playing video games. I'm like, 62% of people on Medicaid are very old. Children were extremely disabled.

[Sammy Sage]

The question is, on their terms, do these people deserve health care or not? They're not just taking away that health care. They are choosing to create another three and a half trillion dollars in debt that we are all going to have to pay minimum whether or not you are a recipient of this Medicaid. And the billionaires get another trillion dollars in tax cuts. Do you think that billionaires deserve more tax cuts? You know, on the balance, if it means that people are losing health care, they shouldn't have to justify this. There's a reason Republican senators are so mad. I brought a suggestion for our sanity this morning.

[V. Spear]

I'm ready.

[Sammy Sage]

It's inspired by one of your favorite things, a Jewish tradition known as Shabazz.

[V. Spear]

It's not support braces from cbs.

[Sammy Sage]

It's. It's not really Shabbat, but it's support for our mental health collectively.

[V. Spear]

I'm ready.

[Sammy Sage]

So I was thinking about, as we know, how everyone's going a little bit insane because of the phones and the disinformation and the general assaults on our senses. And you're familiar with Shabbat.

[V. Spear]

Let's.

[Sammy Sage]

Let's discuss it in case. Shabbat Shalom. So Friday night to Saturday night, Jews who are Shabbat observant basically disengage from, you know, work elect not electricity. Like you can use electricity. That's not really. But the idea is that you're not using, like, electronics. You're not doing. You're spending time with family, you're off the screens, you're reading, you're walk, going for walks, all these kinds of things. And I mean, obviously there's, like, Jewish traditions involved.

[V. Spear]

Is this the candles one, too?

[Sammy Sage]

There's candles all the time, actually. All the holidays have candles. I love that. But there are candles every. Every. Every Shabbos on Friday nights. What I was thinking is that I think this is very good for one's mental health to just, you know, as. As at odds as it is with the modern world. I do think it's very helpful to be able to, like, really release. And I kept Shabbat for about three. Three years. And I honestly credit this with giving me, like, a certain level of mental stability and sanity, because you cannot reach for this device. And just the cleanse. And this was even before, like, I. I was doing this before, it was, like, truly addictive. But the cleanse that you feel from being off of it really helps, even though you then get immediately back on. So something I was thinking about was we need this in our lives because we need people to go touch grass and do things like spend time with other people without a phone. Even, like, watching a TV show without distractions would be good.

[V. Spear]

Well, that's what we've been doing. We've been rewatching shows from the early 2000s and 90s because they don't have phones on the show. Because I find when somebody has a phone on the show, then I look at mine, and it's, like, engaging. Cause it's, like nostalgia, so I get it. So it's like a happy rewatch. So if you rewatch, like, Heart of Dixie or Greek or Josie and the Cats, I find I put my phone down.

[Sammy Sage]

I watched Josie and the Cats the other day. It was really good. Well, okay. So my proposal. I know it's, like, racially impossible for people to do, to. To unplug for one day a week or even for, like, any considerable amount of time, but what if we started a trend that I'm calling wireless weekend mornings, where you don't look at your phone or go on your phone until noon on Saturday and Sundays. And if we could make this a trend, something that, like, everybody does, you. We will all maybe hopefully cleanse our minds a little bit, have some moments to touch grass on a regular basis. And I'm hoping that it will just recover people's sanity a little bit.

[V. Spear]

We could call it the American Fever. Daydreaming.

[Sammy Sage]

Love that.

[V. Spear]

I like that. And I. So. But we have to give them an activity to do. Anyway, so this past weekend, we bought lawn chairs, which, like, chairs for my back lawn. Like, we have patio furniture, but for some reason, sitting on the patio furniture is, like, actually not that relaxing to me. I feel like I should be, like, doing something right.

[Sammy Sage]

Like being on your phone.

[V. Spear]

So we got, like, weird zero gravity chairs, so that when you tilt back, you're just looking at the top of the trees in the sky. That was super helpful. I like this idea of saying when you wake up the morning, whatever time you wake up naturally on the weekend, if you can, or with your kids, you're just deciding it's just until noon, and then at noon you can scroll to the ends of time. But just trying to give yourself a little discipline on the phone, I think, is a really. Yeah, good point.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, it's like you. I think what. What happens is that when we are just consuming everything in these tiny little bursts or by text or something like that, and watching short videos, I think it makes people's brains actually less thoughtful in, like, a longer. In a longer form or a conversation. I find myself losing my train of thought constantly. And I also think because the algorithm surfaces things that are more extreme or divisive, that actually affects the words we. That we use and the way we start to think of things. And everything's sort of in this, like, extremely baity, intense, extreme way of phrasing things. And then we're all thinking this way. But I think if you, like, get away from it for a little bit, for hours at a time. And I. I also think it'd be helpful to, like, make a plan to do something before, like, go for a.

[V. Spear]

Walk with your neighbor girlfriends. You know what I mean? It doesn't have to be all, like, positive stuff either. I do a ton of negative in my downtime. That gives me a lot of time to blow off steam. I'll call my friend Andrea or Vaughn and talk about girls we went to college with. To this day, we have talked about those same girls in the same ways for so many times. And it never gets old. Do that.

[Sammy Sage]

No, I think it's. It's also like, you don't have to not use a screen. Like, you could watch a movie with your. You could watch a movie. You can. I think it's more you could call someone.

[V. Spear]

Micro learning. Yeah, I've been taking Harvard. Well, obviously I'm doing my Harvard stuff, but you could take free online classes through Harvard right now, do a little micro learning. So that way we're not just scrolling Maybe that's a good transition too. Like, hey, I'm going to do my little micro learning right now.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, you know what I think would be cool if. Because I think part of it is that obviously I'm just saying it on here, so it's not like everyone's going to start doing it, but if there were more of a social movement around it. Because I think part of the issue is that the norms are that everyone's always on their phone. There's no off. So you feel like a. I'm missing something. It's so hard to resist when you're the only one doing it. But if, if there were sort of like this was the norm that everyone was doing, people would think like, oh, I want to go meet someone on Saturday morning instead. Like, let's go make a plan to meet up or something.

[V. Spear]

We have to change. Yeah. What are our. Our pandemic time isolation. Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. You know what I think would be cool? If there was some sort of app that you could set on Friday night that because, you know, most people just sort of instinctually look at their phone. They need to check something, they need to get. They need to look at the time. There is an app that locks your phone until you can.

[V. Spear]

Oh, you can. Gen Z came up with this. I saw it. Like, it's so funny you bring this up because I just saw it. It's called Brick and you, like, can brick. It's called bricking your phone and you put something on it and it bricks your phone. It makes your phone like a brick. Like, it doesn't do anything.

[Sammy Sage]

Can you see the time?

[V. Spear]

Yes, you can see the time. And your calendar appointments and you can send and receive calls. You can. But you can brick certain apps. So you could say, I'm bricking, tick tock and text and whatever other thing.

[Sammy Sage]

So the app exists already?

[V. Spear]

It does, yeah. They. I only just started hearing about it and I think it's because there's this collective movement right now to, to get back out and build community and be in person and stop saying things like, you know, cancel plan is my favorite plan, which used to be my favorite thing to say. And I think this was really exemplified by the no Kings protests. So many people came out that don't even usually come out because we want to be with other people and we actually, humans do actually enjoy the company of other people.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. And I think that it's really hard to resist an addictive substance.

[V. Spear]

It is. And also, I, I. You need some time by yourself with your thoughts. But then you need time with other humans to work those thoughts out. And if you are only ever alone or only ever on the phone. Like, the thing I dislike about the phone, even for me, is because I'm like a public figure, thought leader, news person. Everything I say has such weight to it. So I get like, you know, I'll post something on threads and it'll get 4,000 likes and a ton of responses, and that feels like engagement. But I don't actually learn or reflect or internalize or decide what my values are until I talk to my wife or, like I said, my friends on the phone or something to hear what their thoughts are back. Like, the duality of conversation is lost online. You're. You're both sort of. Even if you're going back and forth, you're still talking at each other. And these moments really do help us to develop better, stronger opinions, I think, and be a little bit smarter.

[Sammy Sage]

Right. I also think the online conversation, there's nothing ever neutral about it. It's always like, hard agree or, like, hard disagree. But in real life, you meet new people, maybe even just like, going to the coffee shop and, like, getting. You might start talking to someone and you, like, meet people who have a new. Like. I think you see the nuances of people, and I think part of the issue is that we don't see the nuances of people around us anymore, and everything becomes so extreme.

[V. Spear]

You got to go to stuff. Like, I went to get coffee the other day in the. In the evening, and I was like, why are so many people at this coffee shop right now just sitting? I was like, oh, they're doing literally open mic poetry night, which sounds like a nightmare to me. And then I was like, you know what? I bet I would actually kind of enjoy hearing people try in my town and community and express their thoughts through poetry or through whatever was going on. I was like, I'm gonna go to that next time. Go to a community theater show, go to a baseball game. Go. Go to a little league game. I used to go to high school football all the time.

[Sammy Sage]

Right?

[V. Spear]

I mean, when you're growing up, that was like a big part of your life. There. There is a. There is a value to being a part of your town in whatever way you can, or city in whatever way you can, and showing up to see people from your direct community try to do something, whether that's poetry or theater or a sport or whatever the case may be. There's something really healing and human about that experience. And so I was like, I'm Going.

[Sammy Sage]

To start doing more of this stuff wireless weekend mornings. Let's try it with a brick app and see how it goes. I really feel that brick app sponsor us. Yeah. I mean, or don't. We don't need to. We don't need to commercialize this. I think we can just. I mean, I would love if they did, but we can. This is capitalism. Indeed. But I think that we could. I also think it could be an interesting symbol, like signal to the tech companies that people want to take back more agency around this.

[V. Spear]

Well, I certainly don't want Peter Thiel deciding what I'm doing since the man just did an interview where he was asked, do you think think human humanity should endure? And he was like, I can't have him involved in my life.

[Sammy Sage]

V. That was so scary. Creepiest. Most bizarre conversations I've ever endured in my life. I also think that he looks like his soul is being sucked out.

[V. Spear]

Curtis Yarvin is sucking the souls out of these people. They. They all talk the same. If you look at him and Elon, they can't form a thought.

[Mallory McMurrow]

They.

[V. Spear]

They stutter. They're very insecure. They're very overwhelmed. They're extremely paranoid. And it's like, all right, man, maybe this isn't the people that should be in charge of our digital experience.

[Sammy Sage]

I've never seen someone's insides manifest on their face so rapidly. Yeah, for the worst. Yep.

[V. Spear]

I. I like, I. It's not that I feel bad for the tech bros. I don't feel bad for them, but I do have pity on the fact that they have lost all their humanity. And I think that that's a tragedy for a person to have put themselves in such a theological conundrum that they have lost touch with what it means to be human while being a human. You are not an Android. You cannot be an Android. You cannot be devoid of empathy. And that's what they've done to themselves. And I think it's sad to see for sure. Anyway, that to say we do have somebody coming up after the break who is in touch with humanity and does believe in taking weekend breaks. I'm sure. I bet she bricks her phone every now and again because she gets a lot of shit done. And so you could only do that if you are in a place of community and reflection and not doom scrolling. So, Mallory McMurrow after the break.

[Sammy Sage]

Mallory, last time we did this, we were at the dnc.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Oh, we were.

[Sammy Sage]

Things have changed since then. How are you feeling?

[Mallory McMurrow]

First of all, wasn't that fun? It was so hopeful. It felt nice. Felt like we were on the precipice of something. And now we're back in hell.

[Sammy Sage]

We got, like, a quick reprieve between July 20th and November 5th, 6th, whatever, and that was the time. It was a gift that we didn't have to be miserable that whole time.

[Mallory McMurrow]

It was. We allowed ourselves to be happy and see a future. And I would just like to think that that future is still there. It's just delayed.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, I. I hope so we can get it. Maybe we'll delay it enough so that their own. They will have to clear out the older generations. No offense, Mom. She's sitting here. It's you. You would let me. And then it will be on the millennials to fix things. I think we're a bit more creative and savvy.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Okay. So you're running for Senate?

[Mallory McMurrow]

I am.

[Sammy Sage]

You've been on the ground in Michigan.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Oh, my goodness. All over.

[Sammy Sage]

Okay, Tell me what you're seeing from your constituents. Tell me what you're seeing. What is the reaction to the Trump administration? Been.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Not good. People are pissed. And I think that's important to recognize it. Even in a place like Michigan, this is a battleground state that Trump did win. This is a state that voted for Donald Trump and voted for Alyssa Slotkin to be a senator. But there is a lot of buyer's remorse. And I would say on the Democratic side, people who align themselves with the Democratic Party, there's just so much anger and a lot of energy. We just kicked off the first leg of our statewide brewery tour, so we're trying to do something very different, bring people into this. Because Michigan being a battleground means that people bother you about politics all the time. People knock on your door, people send you surveys, people text you, people send you phone calls. And people are just sick of it. So we wanted to just invite people to grab a beer and get to know me.

[Sammy Sage]

I love that. Also, I assume there's a strategy where you're supporting small businesses.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I am very proudly the 2025 Michigan Beer Defender of the Year from the Brewers Guild. Crowning achievement. It's a major.

[Sammy Sage]

What does that mean?

[Mallory McMurrow]

So the Brewers Guild, Michigan is a big craft brewery state. It is one of our larger industries. It's a $10 billion industry. So every year, the Brewers Guild gives an award out to legislator elected official who's been a real champion for small business owners in the industry.

[Sammy Sage]

What's your favorite brew?

[Mallory McMurrow]

It depends on the time of year. So it's summer, there's A couple of good options. Sheboygan has a blood orange honey kind of wheat beer that's really delicious.

[Sammy Sage]

And serve it with an orange. They serve.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Yeah, yeah. Put it with an orange slice. And then there's a brewery called Shorts way up north that has a soft parade shandy. So it's a little bit of lemonade and then like a fruity beer that is just amazing at a pool.

[Sammy Sage]

Love that. Love that. So you've been, you said Democrats are feeling angry. Yeah. Can you, can you try to articulate what they're angry about and what they want? What are they responding positively to? Is there anything that Democrats in leadership are doing? And then what kind of leader do you think they're. They're looking for? What kind of values, what kind of policies?

[Mallory McMurrow]

I mean, I will tell you, I think Michiganders overwhelmingly wish there were more leaders in the Democratic Party who are really stepping up to meet the moment. We had at one of our stops in Ypsilanti this week, there was a guy who, you know, his question when we opened for Q and A, he came in pretty hot and he said that he is livid at the anemic response from the Democratic Party to this moment. And it was, you could just sense his anger. And he asked me, you know, what did you. And it was you, the royal you. He corrected himself, not you personally. But what did Democrats do wrong and what are we going to do this time to do it better? And what they're looking for is people who are not treating this as business as usual, who don't think it is acceptable because it's not to go give interviews on national news where you're saying, well, we're not in power right now, but their polling numbers will come down and we'll just get them in the midterms. Because people are saying, well, what are you doing right now?

[Sammy Sage]

Where are terms right if they're going to be.

[Mallory McMurrow]

If you're not fighting for democracy, the fact that we can have elections again, our basic rights, Medicare, Medicaid, fundamental civil liberties. People are asking, we're on the streets, where are you? So that is what people are looking for. They the fight is not coming from Washington. The fight is coming from the states. We saw it with the no Kings protests. I mean, there were at least 20 different protests all across Michigan. Thousands and thousands of people even in deep red areas coming out and wanting leaders who will meet them there and march alongside them and then plan for how are we going to organize, how are we going to take back power? And then, oh, by the way when you're in power again, you better damn well do what you said you were going to do. Don't let it go to waste.

[Sammy Sage]

Right. Or at least get. Get caught trying. I think about what Tim Walls said back around the election, that the reason you get political capital is to spend it.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Yes.

[Sammy Sage]

And I think that that concept has been just entirely abandoned by the people who have the most power to set the agenda of the party, even if there are other people in the party who want to fight. When you see Republic, when you see maybe Republicans or MAGA Republicans, by people with buyer's remorse, how are they looking at the Democrats? Like, what are they looking at and thinking they. They want.

[Mallory McMurrow]

I think they want fighters the same way that Democrats do. When we saw the freeze on Head Start funding, really the first big thing that people felt on the ground that this administration did, where we had parents all across the state showing up at Head Start facilities and the doors were locked and they were closed, and they just want somebody to fix it. Michigan is a state where you don't have to register by political party. We have open primaries. You can vote however you want. And I think that ethos carries through a lot of Michiganders who, if you were to ask them, probably a majority of Michiganders will say, I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. I vote for the right person. So the sense that I get from people who maybe even voted for Donald Trump but are having buyer's remorse is I. I am looking for anybody, anybody to stand up and fight back. They're not seeing it from the Republican Party, which, by the way, the Republican members of our congressional delegation are set to vote for the big bad disaster of a bill despite all of the opposition. So they are looking to. If it's not the Republicans, are there some people in the Democratic Party who are going to stand up and fight back? Because there is a willingness in Michigan to vote across party lines. But you got to show him something worth fighting for.

[Sammy Sage]

Right. And I want to note that it's not just that they're going to vote for the bill. They could very easily remove him from office if they wanted to take their power. Under the Constitution, he does not need to be in office. They are ceding their entire branch to him and his. His people. I. I can't understand it. I'll never really be able to understand it. But I think that it's a lot. It's a lot of things.

[Mallory McMurrow]

I mean, even things that are buried in the bill, like the provision that would prevent any regulation of AI for 10 years.

[Sammy Sage]

The you want to talk about the most dangerous.

[Mallory McMurrow]

You want to talk about ceding your power. That's the power to write legislation, that's the power to conduct oversight, that's the power to call people in front of Congress. You're just going to get rid of all of that for the next decade. Are you kidding me?

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. And also the states don't get to regulate things like self driving cars.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Right.

[Sammy Sage]

Like you are. They are not going to be able to make any sort of liability, you know, hold any companies liable from the.

[Mallory McMurrow]

State that is home to car three to cars.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[Mallory McMurrow]

You talk to most auto executives in the companies. They don't want to operate in a world with no regulations because then the risk, the liability. There's only one man who's advocating to not have any regulations and it's Elon Musk.

[Sammy Sage]

Right. What do you think is in it for him?

[Mallory McMurrow]

I mean, how much ketamine can you do? I don't know if we could figure out a logical end game for him. I think he's so lost in this world where he's convinced that the world just needs his genius. He just wants to do whatever he wants with no checks on him.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes. Never mind the fact that he's never actually achieved personally any of the things that he has taken credit for doing. And somehow he finds himself here.

[Mallory McMurrow]

And how much government funding has he received for his companies, for his projects, for everything he's ever done? The taxpayers we have paid for it.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. It's not just him, it is all of these. All of these companies. They are welfare queens. They would not exist if not for government funding, particularly with SpaceX, Palantir. And one of the things I find most interesting about them is that when these companies were coming up, the way they got those government contracts was that they sued the government into giving them the contracts into basically so they could have the lower bid against other companies and because they were startups. But then they ended up getting all this federal funding and building themselves up and now we are imprisoned by their tech oligarchy.

[Mallory McMurrow]

I mean what's wild about this is, you know, game out, the end game here. At some point these companies are no longer going to have customers because if you're driving income inequality to the place where you've shut every other business owner out of participating. An example that we have in Michigan, there is a group that started in Detroit called Black Tech Saturdays. It is the largest gathering of black tech entrepreneurs in the country. And it started organically. And these are all young startups who will be the next tech company, but if they never have a shot, who, who's left? Who's going to be left to buy all of Jeff Bezos's crap any.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, they. Does he. I think they're envisioning like a totally different economy that doesn't look like the one we're looking at today where they don't really care about the value of the dollar and they don't really care about basically whether people can get what they want. In fact, I think that they prefer people sort of like Caroline and I were saying earlier, like crabs in a bucket, where they never feel like they can ever give an inch or sacrifice a cent of profit. Because if you do that, then you might lose the hope the bottom can fall out, you'll lose your health care.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Right.

[Sammy Sage]

You will won't be able to feed your family. And I think that they have capitalized on the fact that people, over time, their ability to be socially, be economically mobile has been degraded entirely and people are just fighting for survival. That's what it is.

[Mallory McMurrow]

That's right. And there is, I want to be critical of the Democratic Party here too, because for too long, corporate donations, Democrats have been defending process and institutions and not outcomes. And I heard this directly. I was campaigning, I was a surrogate for the Harris campaign and I was supporting 12 state reps through my state PAC last cycle. So I was campaigning all over the state even though I wasn't on the ballot. And I would be in places like Downriver or Macomb county, which are really blue collar, working class communities. And I remember one woman, this was right around when the national campaign was really in on this is the end of democracy and Donald Trump is a dictator and a fascist. And a woman looked at me and she said, I know, I know he's a felon. I know. I don't care. What are you doing for us? And there's a reality that regardless of who has been in power for the last few administrations, people say a version of the same thing. I've done everything right and I'm still getting screwed. And there is no longer a belief that Democrats want to fix that. And that's something that part of the reason that I'm running is to say that very bluntly, to say to people, you have every right to be angry. You have every right to be pissed off. I'm somebody, we're around the same age. I graduated college in 2008 with a degree in industrial design, wanting to be a car designer. There is no worse time in American history to try to start being a car designer.

[Sammy Sage]

You could have been Elon. You could have made Cyber. You could have saved the cybertruck.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Oh, boy. You threw a baseball into that truck multiple times. This is a. Hold on. I want to pause it. Because the world is very small and my first boss. I interned at Mazda when Mazda was under pag, which is owned by Ford. Franz von Holzhausen was my design director. He is now Tesla's design director. And I love Franz, but my heart absolutely broke when I saw him go on stage and Elon made him throw that baseball at the Cyber truck, and it smashed the.

[Sammy Sage]

Wait, that was him. That was.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

I am obsessed with that video because to me, I'm like, if a woman that. To a woman, and she gets on stage, she's like, this is my indestructible car. And then someone throws something through that car that she's done. She's. She's the. She. I don't even know. You wouldn't even know her name or you only know her name is a meme. Like, it would be.

[Mallory McMurrow]

But Elon has these crazy ideas, and he makes these promises, but they're not that crazy.

[Sammy Sage]

I can come up with them, but.

[Mallory McMurrow]

He knows that it's not true, so he made somebody else throw the ball.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, but it's his car. Who cares, right? No, the person throwing the ball, I'm like, you're great. Like, you know, you proved. I'm like, how do people let that stand? How do they then be like, okay, well, yeah, we'll now launder your reputation as, like, a real scientist.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Wild.

[Sammy Sage]

Why does. Why is it allowed? Let's go back to something you were saying before about just people feel like they can't survive and affordability.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

And people talk a lot about age, you know, oh, we need younger people in office. I think it's not necessarily about, like, the age proper. It's about the fact that people who are that age and have been insulated for so long don't realize that people who are in their 20s, like, many of them, are possibly thinking they're going to experience homelessness. If not, they have. If they haven't already. And the like. If we can talk about how. How bad it was in, like, 2008, 2010, right now, it is, like, so much worse. Things are so much more expensive in the city, and there's so fewer jobs, and it's just the labor, like, the way that companies have gotten so much more power, and it's. You do kind of understand why People want, like, anarchy or why they're just like, fuck it, what do I care? It sucks for me now.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

So what do you think can be done about that? Even without power in Congress or anything?

[Mallory McMurrow]

Well, it starts by understanding that this is still a long game and we have to play it and we can't. Check out what we saw happen in Michigan last cycle. One of my colleagues, Kevin Hertel, his brother Curtis, who's now our state party chair, he was running for Congress in the district that includes Michigan State. So Kevin was working the polls on election Day, and he said that there were groups of college bros dudes showing up in MAGA hats voting for Trump and nothing else. Like, it was very clear. They were in and out in 10 seconds. And they weren't connecting Donald Trump with Republicans because they just voted for Donald Trump because he meant blowing it up. And it wasn't about the Democrats, it wasn't about the Republicans. It's to your point. Fuck it. I hate this. I'm gonna blow it all up.

[Sammy Sage]

Yep.

[Mallory McMurrow]

But they're also now seeing, okay, this is a guy who promised me he was gonna bring my costs down and make life easier and bring job, and instead they're carrying out security, theater, immigration raids to the tune of $1 trillion. That is not going after criminals and people who have committed violent crimes, but going after moms. There was a kid in Michigan, in Detroit, 18 years old, three credits away from graduation, who got picked up on the way to a field trip and got deported. And people are looking around like, that's not. That's not what I voted for. And also, it's gonna cost me more money. Are you kidding me? So what we do now is it's not enough just to say, well, we don't have power, but you have to make a compelling case to younger people and meet them and go out. And that's why we're doing brewery tour events and just getting out to places where people are who don't eat, sleep, and breathe politics all the time to say, you're right, but he lied to you. I think making that acknowledgment and not trying to shame people who may have voted for Donald Trump, because we have to get out of this place as Democrats where we're just moral high ground and we're going to push anybody out who doesn't agree with us. It's a math game.

[Sammy Sage]

Literally. It's. That is like the biggest cultural mistake that Democrats are continuing to make, in my opinion. It. That will not work. Like trying to break apart Your own anti, your own pro democracy coalition. But I have a question about that. When you're, when you're talking about what you're seeing in, in and from Democrats saying they don't have any power, I think they're misunderstanding what power is. Because think about in 2021, where was Donald Trump's power that Kevin McCarthy had come and then taken a photo with him in Mar a Lago after the insurrection to make him feel like sort of acceptable? That was his power. It has never stopped them to not have power. And I think part of it is that Democrats see it as like, okay, I guess we have. It's like, freeze. You know, don't, don't move. If you don't have the procedural power, it's like, what did it even matter when you did a procedural power? Because look what you did with it.

[V. Spear]

Like, right.

[Sammy Sage]

Not much. And what I think they don't think about is like, no, this is an ongoing daily performance that has to do with morale.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Yes.

[Sammy Sage]

More than it has to do with what they can actually accomplish. Because you're going to get court orders this way, you're going to get court orders that way. But we are not that far into this.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Right.

[Sammy Sage]

And they have to just keep stopping it in all the ways. And it's a performance. It's about people's attention.

[Mallory McMurrow]

There are two sides of it. There's governing and there's politics. And one cannot exist without the other. You have to do the politics to get the power to govern. And I want to tell the story of what we did in Michigan, because this is what, you know, I want to bring to the federal level that I think is deeply missing. I ran for office for the first time in 2018. I googled how to run for office right after the 2016 election. I had no idea.

[Sammy Sage]

I once googled what is marketing.

[Mallory McMurrow]

So there you go. We all start somewhere, and usually that place is Google. We mounted a campaign. I took on my Republican incumbent state senator. He had won by 16 points. I beat him by four. So. But I came in to the minority, came into the Senate minority, which is probably portending what my future will be if I win this election. So I came in into a Republican majority Senate that had been controlled by Republicans since 1984, my entire lifetime.

[Sammy Sage]

Great year.

[Mallory McMurrow]

There you go. But we didn't accept that we didn't have any power. So, you know, I woke up. What most people probably know me for is a speech that I gave from the Michigan Senate floor after a colleague accused me of being a groomer. And pedophile, because that is a normal day in Trump's America.

[Sammy Sage]

It's so fucking weird. Like, so weird. So weird. You're obsessed with children's genitals.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Really, Truly. But we. What we did then is, you know, that speech blew up, and it was on MSNBC and CNN and Fox News and all over the place. And I opened a pack and set out to use the spotlight, and we built out a media calendar and a strategy for the rest of the year, because all of these reporters were calling me from all around the country to talk about this speech, but then to talk about Michigan and then to talk about Dobbs and then to talk about the November election. And we saw a path and raised millions of dollars, supported a dozen other state Senate candidates, and we flipped control of the state Senate for the first time in my lifetime, took a Democratic trifecta with Gretchen Whitmer. We got a state run by women, and then we got to govern. But it recognized that we don't get to do that thing unless we can make the case to the voters every day. It is about narrative. It's about owning the news cycle. And once you recognize Donald Trump is a master at this, like, credit where credit is due. He is running the presidency like it's a reality show. And until we have leaders who recognize and know how to counter that and to be in that environment and to be on all the podcasts and go into the manosphere and to go out to events, we're going to lose every single time. And then you will never get to govern and you will never have power.

[Sammy Sage]

They need to treat themselves like political Kardashians, which they have been, but they didn't realize it. They're living in, like, a 1996 Studio World in a Kardashian era. So you are very good at comms. Not just that speech, but, you know, the speech, I feel, wasn't an anomaly. Like, I feel like that just happened because it, you know, worked out. But you could have given that on, like, any day, I feel like. Right.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Well, hopefully not every day I'm called a groomer, but, yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, no, but I feel like you're able to talk like that on a regular Tuesday. So can you talk a bit about what your strategy is? And do you have any advice for Chuck Schumer?

[Mallory McMurrow]

Oh, my goodness. So much advice. So I come at this from an unorthodox background. Yes. I was a car designer. I was also the creative director for Gawker Media here in New York for a time. There are stories yeah, it was a year of my life that I felt like took 10 years off of my life right before the.

[Sammy Sage]

You're very right brained.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Yeah. Yeah. But there is a lot of having. Having learned how to write in the blogging era and how to write online. And I tell my staff and my team, even in my official capacity, when we're sending out mailers, when we're posting on Facebook, talk about everything. I don't care how complicated it is, talk about it like you would talk to your friend at a bar. Which means that if it's worth getting excited about, be excited about it. If it's worth being angry about it, be angry about it. Use simple language. Not because you're trying to dumb something down, because you're trying to bring everybody into it in a way that they're going to give a shit about. And if we don't learn how to do this. The thing that kills me is when I hear federal Democrats talking about the continuing resolution or the debt ceiling or, you know, the name of the legislation. What does that mean?

[Sammy Sage]

There are acronyms.

[Mallory McMurrow]

It's like, but what does it mean for a person on the ground?

[Sammy Sage]

Right.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Tell them what it does for them in their language, in their mindset. And you are allowed to have emotion about things because people are angry. And I think there is that disconnect where on the ground people are so angry and they're so livid and they are so beyond capability to wrap their head around how this man can be president.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[Mallory McMurrow]

How we can be in a constitutional crisis, how he can openly defy the Supreme Court. And they hear, I think, too many Democrats operating like it's business as usual. And I'm just going to host my press conference behind a podium and I'm going to send out a press release and a strongly worded letter.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, no, they don't want to hear. Yeah, like, they don't want to hear about, like, the parliamentari and said no, like, no one cares.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Nobody cares.

[Sammy Sage]

What are you talking. Who said that?

[Mallory McMurrow]

How are you going to. To the point about Medicare and Medicaid right now? Like, you are one of the most powerful people talking to anybody who's in federal office right now, particularly in the Senate. You're one of the most 100 powerful people, really, in the world. You have a platform, you have a microphone. You have the ability to command attention. How are you gonna use that? Show up at a rural hospital, talk about the doors that are gonna close, talk to the nurse who just delivered May baby. They're going to be able to afford to deliver because that hospital is not going to be around anymore. Start to tell stories the way that the Trump administration does, frankly, a pretty damn good job of telling stories.

[Sammy Sage]

They're incredible. I hate to say it like they are. I'm so that's what it is. It's a con. And a con. That is what the con is. That's the substance of a con man.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Snake oil salesman. They're great at it.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. But that's why they are doing it. Otherwise you would just have a guy who's out of business. It's funny that you bring up Gawker because when we were first hiring people here, like 15 years ago, 12 years ago, we would always tell people, try to teach them how to write in like the Betch's voice. Teach them, say, say it like you'd say it to your friend. Text like, say it like you text it to someone. Say it like your boss isn't in the room.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Right.

[Sammy Sage]

And that's. That was like the brand guideline. It's like you just have to figure out how to say things not in the way the rest of the Internet says it. And I feel like, because I was reading Gawker all throughout college, that is where I got that idea. Yeah. That like, yeah, no one wants to read it in the New York Times. Like, that's a satire to me now.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Right.

[Sammy Sage]

It's like they want to read it like plain English, the way people would speak about it.

[Mallory McMurrow]

And Gawker, you know, at the time when I took the job, I was a fan. I read the homepage of Jezebel. I read the homepage of Gawker. I read the homepage of Jezebel. Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

The book of Jezebel.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Oh, yes, of course. What the network and every site on the network did well is yes, they would do pop culture and talk about, you know, crazy, unhinged sorority emails, but would also do deep dive investigations. They would hold Elon Musk and Peter Thiel accountable. They would go deep. But it broke through to people like me as a reader because I could care about multiple things at once. I could care about fashion, I could care about celebrity, and I could care that somebody is abusing their power in high office. And it respected, I think, for me in a way that. And I subscribe to the Detroit Free Press and the New York Times now, and I consume news. But Gawker and that era of blogging appealed to me because it recognized me as a full person.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes. You know, I really think the world should be run by Gawker, Millennials. But that's a take for another day. Do you feel, though, that some people might just not have it, and the people who got into politics before a certain period didn't need that skill? In fact, that skill was sort of, ooh, yeah, you're a little too much.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Too much.

[Sammy Sage]

Do you feel like maybe the skill set that people think of when they're trying to go into politics or what might make a good elected official has shifted?

[Mallory McMurrow]

I think it has changed. And to your earlier point, I don't believe that that's specifically about age, but it is an awareness. Are you aware of how to communicate in the digital age and on social media and when more and more, particularly young people are getting their news from social media and TikTok and are not subscribing to traditional news outlets? Do you know how to get into that arena and win the day? I mean, that was an old phrase, right. In media, who won the day?

[Sammy Sage]

Oh, yeah. In campaign, who won the 30 minutes.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Right. But now it's, you know, the day doesn't end. It just goes on endlessly. But it's still that mindset of in the Trump era where they are very good at winning the narrative and winning the story, and everybody knows no tax on tips, and everybody knows tariffs are the most beautiful word in the world. He has no idea what it actually means.

[Sammy Sage]

Oh, no.

[Mallory McMurrow]

But there is a lot of recognition that he said it and it sounds good. So how do we compete? So I do think the skill set is very different, and we need to recognize that. And as somebody who cares very deeply about this country and the Democratic Party, if Democrats want to start winning again, we need to start elevating people who bring that skill set into the role, because otherwise we're going to lose.

[Sammy Sage]

Does it insult you when people are like, democrats suck, or do you feel like, no, I know I don't suck, but everyone else does?

[Mallory McMurrow]

It's like when somebody insults your family, you sort of know, but you are part of it because you love them and you've given it so dearly. I'm part of it, and these are my values, and it's how I was raised. It's true.

[Sammy Sage]

You're like the sibling that went to therapy.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

And Gawker.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Oh, I don't know that I would recommend that to anybody.

[Sammy Sage]

You know, it's hard. Yeah, some people.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Yeah, maybe some people. But there are flanks of this party or people who consider themselves Democrats or on the left of things who I think very much like Donald Trump, want to blow it up from the outside. And I'm somebody who I ran for office and I got into it because I am to my core, a Democrat. I believe in Democratic values. I believe that our policies actually help people and improve their lives and make sure that we all have access to the American dream. So you're not going to get screwed. But I'm in it as deep as I am because I know the only way to actually make progress is to fix it from the inside. So I don't want to be a social media troll who's just saying things and getting away with it. I want to build power. We shouldn't be afraid of power. And we got to figure out how to get it.

[Sammy Sage]

I agree. Attention is power now.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Yes.

[Sammy Sage]

And I think that that's the new rule, like no tax on tips. We're about to have see some very, very well tipped hedge funders. Yeah. What do you think about the word oligarchy? I mean, this may be a stupid question, but I'm curious how you think about that whole.

[Mallory McMurrow]

I think it's a little wonky, you know, which is why I think the it seemed to evolve into no Kings. And that made sense for a lot of people and their huge credit to Bernie and AOC for being able to draw massive crowds. And I think any Democrat who's poo pooing that should get over themselves. But it was a certain type of person who would go to that. And something that concerned me is a bunch of people show up at a rally and then they leave what is left behind. Whereas the organizing where is the supporting local candidates. And I think the evolution into what I saw happen with no Kings. First of all, brilliant strategy to not protest in D.C. especially while then you saw the contrasting crowd size and you know, that drives Donald Trump insane. Yeah, we love it insane. The fact that there was nobody there for the parade, but there were millions of people all across the country at these protests where, you know, people were flying the American flag and people had signs that said no Kings and it was very focused. So same idea. But I just go back to. It feels like no Kings was oligarchy, but I'm telling my friend at a.

[Sammy Sage]

Bar, right, you're right. It also feels like it worked because Donald Trump was so mad he went to war with Iran and that's how, you know, it worked.

[Mallory McMurrow]

I would love to not operate in a place where we may be entering World War III thanks to a truth a tweet. I would just. That would.

[Sammy Sage]

No, I just. I call it his knockoff Twitter because It's not X either.

[Mallory McMurrow]

That's right.

[Sammy Sage]

It's like his replica Twitter, but it's. Do you ever see the office when they give Creed the Microsoft Word document and says, like, this is your blog, Creed, thoughts. And he's like, it's like it could have been what it is. Yeah, but I don't know the people he. He's like, he just keeps going. Can't be forever.

[Mallory McMurrow]

No. And we have to put plans in place to figure out what's next now.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. What do you. What do you think the Democratic Party just real quick should take as its sort of like key pillars? If you were. If you were setting the agenda, like, what would your top three things be?

[Mallory McMurrow]

Well, I happen to be running for U.S. senate, so I think about this all the time. We're running on. This is time for us to write a New American Dream, which is a direct counter to make America great again. And a recognition that it's not by doing the same things we always did. And it should be centered around three things. Success, safety, and sanity. And that means a lot of things. Democrats have too often poo pooed success. You hear phrases like Democrats are fighting for you to put food on the table, which is not wrong, but it's also not aspirational.

[Sammy Sage]

And I think people don't want to be like working class forever. Right.

[Mallory McMurrow]

I want to know that if I work hard, you know, I am somebody who grew up on MTV Cribs. You want to believe that I'm gonna have that house and I can have a car. And we shouldn't completely shame anybody for wanting be to successful because we left the door open for Elon Musk and Donald Trump, for, you know, particularly young men to be like, they're successful. I want to be like them, but.

[Sammy Sage]

They'Re like hyper capitalist growth successful.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Yes. So we have to present another vision that isn't just getting by. It's not the bare minimum. It's normal success where you can go on vacation, you can afford the house you want to buy in the neighborhood you want to live in, your kids have good schools, you can save for their college, you can have a hobby, you can do something fun. Free time with your friends. Free time is a luxury. We don't talk about that often enough. Like, the hustle culture has to stop.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[Mallory McMurrow]

We don't need a job and a gig and a second gig and a side hustle.

[Sammy Sage]

Whether or not you're gonna have a child or not should not be about like, can I afford it on a dollars and cents basis. Like, do you want. You know, Elon Musk talks a lot about the birth rate, but, like, do you want. Not just the birth rate. Like, I don't care about how many. Do you want people, the human race, to do their, like, evolutionary thing or not? Or do you want to prohibit that despite the fact that this country is so fucking rich that it could afford for all these people to have fairly normal, safe lives?

[Mallory McMurrow]

As a country, we have chosen to subsidize rich people and Jeff Bezos instead of childcare. And what if we just did that so then people didn't have to think about, am I going to go bankrupt if I have a kid? And if you want to have a kid, that's. That's just a decision that you get to make, Right?

[Sammy Sage]

Well, they don't want that either. With success and safety and sanity facts.

[Mallory McMurrow]

That we should not take a chainsaw to the government, but that we also have to ensure we're not just defending institutions for institutions sake. So if we do things like spend billions of taxpayer dollars on creating a nationwide network of EV chargers, you better damn well see those EV chargers in the ground. Prove that government actually works.

[Sammy Sage]

I mean, I am totally with you. Money out of politics.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Yes, 100%.

[Sammy Sage]

Get it out.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Get it out. We need to ban congressional stock trading. We need to ban corporate PACs. I mean, just get it out.

[Sammy Sage]

Ethics laws. Like, let some. Get some ethics laws on the bus. Yes. Anyway, thank you so much.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Thank you.

[Sammy Sage]

This has been such a fun conversation, and I think the Democratic Party needs you because, I don't know, people are talking about how much they hate it, and maybe you should be the face.

[Mallory McMurrow]

We gotta fix it.

[Sammy Sage]

And let me just say, it has been so refreshing to talk to somebody normal.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Wow. The bar is very low.

[Sammy Sage]

Isn't either, like, a freak or a robot, you know? Oh, either, like, obsessed with, like, children's genitals or just like, oh, my God, what do I say? There is no procedure.

[Mallory McMurrow]

I saw somebody tweet and I thought this. I'm still calling it Twitter. I'm sorry. Yeah, no, it is Twitter, but somebody good at talking. 20, 28.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Can that be what we're doing?

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. Or just, like, be yourself and you have to just not care what anyone says.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Right? Let it go. Be a person.

[Sammy Sage]

Thank you so much, Mallory. Where can people find you?

[Mallory McMurrow]

You can find us at mcmarrow from michigan.com. this is going to be one of the most expensive Senate races in the entire country. So if you want to donate, great. If you want to volunteer or you want to share our kick ass video content? Please do.

[Sammy Sage]

Wait, I have to tell you something really funny. That I know you did all right that you got Haley Stevens website and you redirected it to your own. That was stupid of her. I'm sorry. If you can't get your website URL, come on, we gotta have a little bit of fun.

[Mallory McMurrow]

It was a little bit tongue in cheek, but you gotta buy the URLs.

[Sammy Sage]

Come on. Look, this is why we need Gawker Millennials.

[Mallory McMurrow]

Gawker Millennials for office.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes.