The Truth About Trump, Sex Addiction, and Religious Trauma Ft. Jennifer Welch and Angie Sullivan

Summary

American Fever Dream: The Truth About Trump, Sex Addiction, and Religious Trauma Hosted by Betches Media | Featuring Jennifer Welch and Angie Sullivan | Released June 3, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of American Fever Dream, hosts V. Speer and Sammy Sage welcome Jennifer Welch and Angie Sullivan, the dynamic duo behind the top-charting I've Had It podcast. The conversation delves deep into personal struggles with sex addiction, religious trauma, and the intricate interplay between politics and religion in today's America.

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Promoting Authenticity: Jennifer & Angie's New Book

Jennifer and Angie kick off the discussion by introducing their newly released book, Life is a Lazy Susan of Shit Sandwiches (02:00). They describe it as a manifesto that chronicles 25 years of their friendship, highlighting both their failures and triumphs. Angie shares, “We talk about all of our abject failures leading up to the aforementioned top chart” (01:54), emphasizing the raw honesty and vulnerability the book offers.

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Deconstructing Religion and Personal Faith

A significant portion of the conversation centers around their experiences with religion and the profound impact it has had on their lives.

• Jennifer's Evangelical Upbringing: Jennifer reveals her evangelical Christian background, stating, “If you do the right thing... then everything will be good” (03:15). She candidly discusses how this rigid belief system left her ill-equipped to handle personal struggles, particularly her undisclosed battle with sex addiction.

• Angie's Atheist Stance: In contrast, Angie shares her atheistic perspective, influenced by her mother's disdain for religion. She recounts an encounter in junior high where her lack of religious belief was met with threats of damnation, leading her to solidify her atheism: “I don't think that Jonah lived in a whale... it's not happening” (04:34).

The hosts explore the challenges of maintaining progressive values in deeply religious areas, particularly in red states like Oklahoma. Angie poignantly remarks, “They are socialized... they are no longer interesting to you” (10:03), highlighting the societal pressures that shape individual beliefs and behaviors.

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The Intersection of Religion and Politics: Trump’s Influence

Jennifer and Angie offer a critical analysis of how religion, particularly evangelical Christianity, has shaped the political landscape and bolstered figures like Donald Trump.

• Trump as an Evangelical Preacher: Angie discusses Trump’s alignment with evangelical values, noting, “Trump is a grifter, he's a liar... he does, you know, all the trash... it translates because a lot of the people that I knew that were evangelical were capable of that level of dissonance” (07:52).

• Religious Manipulation: They critique the manipulation of religious sentiments to justify political agendas, with Angie stating, “God has chosen you. You are our vessel... he just doesn't take much” (08:16).

• Paula White’s Influence: The hosts also shed light on Paula White’s role in solidifying Trump's religious facade, describing her as “a total scam artist” who monetizes faith (15:55).

A notable quote from Jennifer encapsulates their stance: “Worshiping capitalism, meanwhile worshiping Jesus, who was all about against the accumulation of wealth” (07:55).

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Sex Addiction and Personal Relationships

V. Speer, Jennifer, and Angie delve into the complexities of sex addiction and its impact on personal relationships.

• Jennifer’s Experience: Contrary to expectations, Jennifer shares that her marriage involved very little enjoyable sex: “We had sex very little. And it was the most boring... missionary style, not fun” (09:32).

• Angie’s Recovery Journey: Angie opens up about her husband's struggle with sex addiction and her own journey through recovery, emphasizing the importance of support systems: “My husband is a recovering drug addict... it's been a very rough patch” (02:34).

• Exploring Sexual Identity: V. Speer discusses her realization of being lesbian and the challenges of reconciling her identity within a previously religious framework: “I thought I wasn't a sex motivated person... I want these people to listen to me” (11:19).

A poignant moment occurs when Sammy Sage comments on the struggles of maintaining healthy boundaries in relationships affected by addiction: “It's the dysfunction or having things be repressed... what are the bounds of quote unquote normal or healthy” (10:40).

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Toxic Masculinity and Political Messaging

The conversation shifts to the broader societal issue of toxic masculinity and its manipulation in political strategies.

• Democrats’ Struggle to Appeal to Men: Sammy critiques the Democratic Party’s $20 million investment in understanding and reaching out to male voters, arguing that the funds could be better utilized: “Why you spend $20 million... you could get a child to tell you this” (31:03).

• Aggressive Leadership Models: Angie emphasizes the need for the Democratic Party to adopt a more assertive approach in combating Republican strategies: “If the Democrats could consistently and cohesively start calling this out... it would hit hard in red states” (25:07).

• Identity and Accountability: Angie stresses the importance of personal accountability over blaming others, stating, “For every failure they have, there's always someone to blame... personal accountability seems to be gone” (22:03).

A key insight from Sammy highlights the detrimental effects of traditional masculinity norms: “Real strength is protecting people... that is the model for what masculinity is” (23:44).

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Media Influence and Public Perception

Jennifer and Angie explore the role of media personalities and influencers in shaping public opinion and political narratives.

• Laura Loomer’s Impact: The hosts discuss Laura Loomer’s significant yet controversial influence within Trump’s circle, debating her tactics and mental stability: “She’s probably really savvy... All these dictators in the Middle East... it works” (47:26).

• Fake Narratives and Capitalism: They critique the pervasive worship of wealth and capitalism, debunking the notion that financial success equates to intelligence or moral superiority: “One of the biggest lies... people that are wealthy are smart” (43:47).

Jennifer asserts, “They're rich. They must be smart. They must be good people” (44:46), highlighting the flawed assumptions perpetuated by the Republican Party.

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Elon Musk and Political Entanglements

The discussion veers into the realm of tech moguls and their entanglements with politics.

• Elon Musk’s Controversial Moves: Angie speculates on Elon Musk’s political maneuvers, linking him to nefarious influences and questioning his motives: “He’s always right there... seems like he could never do this without pointing” (38:36).

• Tesla’s Financial Shifts: Sammy provides an economic perspective on Tesla’s revenue changes, noting, “Most of their revenue now comes from selling carbon credits” (39:21), suggesting potential threats to Musk’s business model due to environmental policy shifts.

• Personal Attacks and Humorous Banter: The hosts engage in light-hearted mock flattery of Trump, illustrating their satirical take on political discourse: “You are really something else” (55:54).

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Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Jennifer and Angie reiterate the release of their book and promote their other podcast, Ihip News, which offers daily political insights. The hosts emphasize the necessity for authentic and clear communication in politics, advocating for a movement grounded in equality and personal accountability.

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Notable Quotes

• Angie Sullivan on Religious Influence: “Trump is a grifter, he's a liar... he does, you know, all the trash... it translates because a lot of the people that I knew that were evangelical were capable of that level of dissonance.” (07:52)

• Jennifer Welch on Adversity: “If you do the right thing... then everything will be good” (03:15)

• Sammy Sage on Democratic Strategies: “Why you spend $20 million... you could get a child to tell you this.” (31:03)

• Angie Sullivan on Toxic Masculinity: “Personal accountability seems to be gone.” (22:03)

• Jennifer Welch on Wealth and Intelligence: “They're rich. They must be smart. They must be good people.” (44:46)

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This episode of American Fever Dream offers a profound exploration of personal and political struggles, underpinned by humor and insightful commentary. Jennifer Welch and Angie Sullivan provide a candid look into the challenges of navigating faith, addiction, and the polarized political landscape, making for an engaging and thought-provoking listen.

Transcript

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[V. Speer]

Rise and Shine, fever dreamers. Look alive, my friends. I'm V. Speer.

[Sammy Sage]

And I'm Sammy Sage.

[V. Speer]

And this is American Fever Dream, presented.

[Sammy Sage]

By Betches News, a show that celebrates the few moments we have left before tariffs affect our apparel sports prices.

[V. Speer]

Oh, the tariffs.

[Sammy Sage]

It's such a shame, girl. The tariffs.

[V. Speer]

I know.

[Sammy Sage]

We are so excited to be joined today by the hosts of the I've had It podcast. Two incredible chart toppers. I really mean this. We need you in the political realm. Jennifer Welch and Angie Sullivan, welcome.

[Jennifer Welch]

Thank you.

[Angie Sullivan]

Thank you.

[Sammy Sage]

And congrats on the new book. Will you tell everyone about the new book?

[Angie Sullivan]

The new book is called Life is a lazy Susan of Shit Sandwiches.

[V. Speer]

Oh my God.

[Angie Sullivan]

We co author it and we talk about all of our abject failures.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah.

[Angie Sullivan]

Leading up to the aforementioned top chart. Top charting chart. Top chart, chart topping. It's a tough podcast. That was tough.

[Sammy Sage]

That's. That's awesome. Is there. So did you co write it as like a memoir?

[Angie Sullivan]

Yes.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah.

[Angie Sullivan]

We call it a manifesto.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah, we refer to it as a manifesto because it's like 25 years of friendship poured out the. Through the worst of times and the worst of times.

[Angie Sullivan]

So the thing is, I know your listeners are probably younger. What you're sold about adulthood is a lie.

[Jennifer Welch]

Right.

[Angie Sullivan]

It is completely untrue. What you're sold about marriage is a lie. What you're sold about motherhood is a lie. And so it all comes crashing down on you, and then it's just a sandwich after another shit sandwich after another shit sandwich. But peppered in that, you have joy and friendship and, you know, so my husband is a recovering drug addict. Angie's in recovery. So it's been a very rough patch to get to where we are now, but we also had good times in there as well. And we also talk about what it's like being progressive in a deeply red state.

[Sammy Sage]

So wait, what is this lie that we're told that we should be aware of?

[Jennifer Welch]

For me, I grew up evangelical Christian. So it was if you do the right thing and you're a good girl, you make all the right choices, and you go to church and you pray, then everything will be good, you'll get the best of everything and all this crap. And so I buried a sex addict not knowing we was a sex addict.

[Sammy Sage]

They don't. They don't want you to know that before. That's why they don't have you, you know?

[Jennifer Welch]

Right. And then I had to reconcile the fact that I had absolutely no ability to cope with any of these problems. I had nothing but had been taught, like, the Bible. You pray. That's it. That's how you get through it.

[Sammy Sage]

Right.

[Jennifer Welch]

And appearances were so important, and it was like, really, survival was the most important thing, so getting through that. And Jennifer was the first and only atheist I knew for probably the first 45 year, 42 years of my life.

[Angie Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

And she was.

[Angie Sullivan]

She tried to get me saved, inviting me to Bible study. Yeah. One of us was.

[Sammy Sage]

Were you raised with any religion?

[Angie Sullivan]

None. My mother cannot stand religion.

[Sammy Sage]

Wow. Were you raised not. Were you raised in Oklahoma?

[Angie Sullivan]

I was born in Dallas and moved to Oklahoma City when I was seven. And my mother just cannot stomach religion. She thinks it's an intellectual weakness. And so when I was probably in junior high, somebody asked me, have you been saved? Because it's a very evangelical state, very evangelical culture. And I'm like, from what? Like, have you accepted Jesus as your Lord and personal savior? I'm like, well, no. And they're like, you're gonna go to hell and these demons are gonna torture you. And I go home and tell my mom. And my mom's like, oh, for God's sakes, that's ridiculous. And so I had always had a lot of friends that were religious, and they were always trying to convert me. And so Angie tried, and, I mean, after, I was just like, it's not happening. Like, there's no way that I believe that Jonah lived in a whale. I don't believe in the virgin birth. I don't believe in magical thinking. I don't think the earth is 5,000 years old. It's not happening. So one of us was going to beat the other one down, and I.

[Sammy Sage]

Won, and you won.

[Angie Sullivan]

Yeah.

[V. Speer]

Was it the dinosaurs? Was it the dinosaurs that did it? Like, you. You were like, look, okay, I gotta have dinosaurs. This is gonna work out.

[Angie Sullivan]

This is a true story. There's a dinosaur museum at the University of Oklahoma, which is in a town called Norman, about 30 minutes south of Oklahoma City. So we took our kids. When your kids are younger, you have to find things to do to fill the time to get to bedtime. That's your number one goal each day. So we're like, let's go to the dinosaur museum. So we're there, and it's like the T. Rex is, you know, however, hundreds of millions of years old or billions of years old. And I kept, like, looking at her, and she's like, can you believe they lived that long ago? And I'm like, yeah, I can, Angie, because I don't think the earth is 5,000 years old. So this all checks out for me.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah. So it was one of those times that it was, like, started thinking critically about things. But, I mean, it was an evolution. It wasn't one time at the dinosaur museum, Like, a whole philosophy of life.

[Sammy Sage]

I mean, because like a deconstruction.

[Jennifer Welch]

It was an absolute deconstruction.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, we talk. We talk a lot about religion, religious trauma, religious everything. We, we. We like to dissect it on the show. Even though there was, like, no intention of this going into. Into this. I'm a Jew. V is a Catholic. Yeah. And not anymore, of course.

[V. Speer]

I mean, but now that I'm gay.

[Sammy Sage]

But raised Catholic, so interesting. That's like, such a distinction for Catholics, because for me, it's like whether you want to be a Jew or not. Once you're in, like, you can't get out. And if you want to get in, you better. You're going to be putting. You're going to be trying hard.

[V. Speer]

Well, you know, I want to be a Jew. Sammy, we've talked about this before.

[Sammy Sage]

I think you are a Jew and someone had to pretend back in Eastern Europe. That's what I think, because.

[V. Speer]

Well, the reason why you have to say, I used to be a Catholic, and I'M not anymore. Is because if you're still a Catholic, then you have to kind of like wrestle with the fact that you must be okay with all the pedophilia stuff and all the anti gay stuff, because we know too much now, you know? So that's what I gotta say. I used to be, but I'm not. So that, you know, I have like, confirmation name and Nick, you know, I like the stained glass and I have all the trauma and the guilt, but I learned.

[Angie Sullivan]

I'm going to tell you this about the Catholics, okay. As an atheist, that was never indoctrinated into anything. One thing that I value about the Catholics, and it's the only thing, is they have decent architecture.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes.

[Angie Sullivan]

These mega churches in the Bible Belt, the architecture is God awful. A lot of them are strip malls.

[Sammy Sage]

I was like. I was like, are you about to say that this is nice? I was like, it's like the American.

[Angie Sullivan]

Construction and they are grifters. These evangelical preachers are loaded to the hilt and they don't even have the decency to hire a good architect. But I do think that when talking about politics right now, you have to intertwine religion into it, because from our vantage point, Trump is base or evangelical Christians. And why are they so comfortable with him? Look at him. He's like an evangelical preacher. He's a grifter, he's a liar, he's a con artist, he's flashy. He does, you know, all the trash, a lago stuff wants to be Marie Antoinette in the Oval Office. And it, to me, it translates because a lot of the people that I knew that were evangelical were capable of that level of dissonance. Worshiping capitalism, meanwhile worshiping Jesus, who was all about against. He was all against the accumulation of wealth. So to me, Trump makes sense for Oklahomans that I know that are religious because they're just like him. They value the same things that he does.

[V. Speer]

He's also into weird sex, which I think is a very big evangelical kind of like situation. Okay.

[Angie Sullivan]

Yeah.

[V. Speer]

I've said before, Republicans have. And conservatives have a humiliation kink. There has to be something more they're getting out of it than just being jerks. And Angie, you had said that you were previously married to or in a relationship with a person who's a sex addict, which may sound fun off the top. You're like, whoa. You know, to some people who have not been in that situation, unfortunately, I have also been in that situation. It sounds like a good time until you get to a point where you're like maybe I should consider polygamy or just let you cheat on me all the time because I cannot keep up with this.

[Jennifer Welch]

Here's the weird deal about mine. This is the most bizarro part. We had sex very little. And it was the most boring. Like missionary style, not fun sec. Now before we got married it was pretty good. But after we got married it was just the most mundane, boring sex because I wasn't, you know, a hooker that.

[Sammy Sage]

Did a horror complex right now. So like my. My perspective pristine wife right home. Like I can't be mixing because also when you're married, I don't have any kids. But when you are married, you see things that are sort of deeply unsexy about your partner. And so like that can't then be like the, you know, really sexy that like.

[Jennifer Welch]

Right.

[Sammy Sage]

I mean what they would say who are addicted to.

[Jennifer Welch]

But it was not fun. You're exactly right. But if I would have definitely been into polygamy under any other circumstances.

[V. Speer]

But I need a break. I need you to go.

[Jennifer Welch]

I needed a wife to list. Just listen to him talk.

[V. Speer]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

The missionary sex every six months. I was in on that was fine.

[V. Speer]

That's fine.

[Sammy Sage]

I think a lot of it stems from this like dysfunction or having things be repressed or having things just no sense of like what are the bounds of quote unquote normal or healthy. You know, because you can do kind of the same action in a way that's healthy or not healthy.

[V. Speer]

And I think that women, Sammy, they hate women.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, they're socialized, controlled.

[Angie Sullivan]

They are socialized.

[V. Speer]

Conquer them. They. They're no longer interesting to you. Everyone has to fulfill a role like they're the Truman show and at the center of every. So I'm a lesbian now. I can't be dealing with that.

[Angie Sullivan]

Okay.

[Jennifer Welch]

Did you think you were asexual before you knew you were a lesbian?

[V. Speer]

Yes.

[Jennifer Welch]

Okay. Because they're trying to convince me I'm a lesbian.

[V. Speer]

I thought I. I just think. I think I wasn't. I'm not a sex yourself. You know, I think there are some people who are very sex motivated. And I wasn't like a sex motivated person. I was an attention motivated person. But like because I want you to listen to me sing or tell you a story or talk to me. Not because I want to be some like vixen type thing. And then I met my wife and I was like, oh no, no, no, you absolutely do have sex drive. You just didn't for the people. You didn't feel comfortable or sort of like, empowered or welcomed to be your most authentic self. So, Angie, if you are considering the lesbian route, boy, have I got a workbook for you. We'll introduce you to some people. You'll see.

[Angie Sullivan]

Get her a welcome kit.

[V. Speer]

A welcome kit. We'll put you on the newsletter.

[Sammy Sage]

Do you want to say something you were just talking about with this, that you feel like Trump is very emblematic of the religious people that you met? It reminds me of a book I read right when he had come into office by Kurt Anderson called Fantasyland. And it was basically all about how America has this history of wanting to be, like, sucked in by hucksters and that we actually, like, want. Like, not. We necessarily obviously know. And in this room, we are perfect, nuanced, genius thinkers. But Americans kind of get into this, like, feverish Americans tend to get into this, like, feverish fantasy where we, like, want. As a culture, we want to, like, see something as, like, amazing and magical and perfect. And that's why, like, more than half of Americans believe in, like, angels and get, you know, sucked into, like, spirituality and crystals and just a very, you know, easily conned culture that we have.

[Angie Sullivan]

I think we totally are. I think you have a population. We were all indoctrinated very much to worship capitalism. Very indoctrinated in that. And it was even difficult for me as an adult to realize, to kind of deconstruct that, that capitalism could be dangero. But the whole con thing is such a big part of American culture. And if you look back historically, America got the crazy Christians and Christianity from the beginning. Yeah, Christianity in Europe has now diluted out. Maybe they're culturally Catholic. Like, you know, a lot of Jews that I know are culturally Jews, but they're atheists. You know, you might be a cultural Catholic. In Europe, they're all pretty much atheists, so they evolved past their religion, but here, it just caught fire. And then if you live in a place like Oklahoma, it's flat. It's either really, really hot, like you're sitting in the middle of a hairdryer, or it's really cold. There's no culture. You have to take your car everywhere. So the church becomes a place of community where you have a social life and you have a purpose. And from an evolutionary standpoint, we have to connect and have reasons to meet. But, oh, my God, these churches in Oklahoma, you guys.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, faith just becomes like a signpost, a status symbol, a way that it's like, I. From my experience around a lot of religious people, what I find is that, like, money can actually buy them. Like, not. They can buy sort of like a favorable experience, you know, like your kids will get better treatment at the school, right? And you'll get like awards because you're part. You're like a pillar of the community. But it just means that you can donate a lot of money, right? And that everyone, like, wants to use you for like what you can kind of do because it's like a charitable thing. And so much of it is like, it's no different than, you know, a different any other culture. Like, it could be like influencer culture, it could be sports culture, it could be anything. But it's built around quote, unquote, faith, right? So they're supposed to be like, you know, high and mighty, but they're actually, it's like all ego.

[Jennifer Welch]

Well, and there's a lot of judgment in it. Like, I'm better than you. That can't happen. Your problems can't happen to me because I go to church on Sunday, right? And I. And so that's like not how it, like, right.

[Angie Sullivan]

Trump said something really interesting over the Memorial Day weekend. He said, when he said cryptology, where he's all hammered, but he said that now I have the Olympics and now I have the World cup because God did that. And that is something that is a theme that is very popular in Oklahoma and the buckle of the Bible belt where they are chosen. You know, he's got that crazy ass tongue talker that offices on top of the.

[Sammy Sage]

What's her name?

[Angie Sullivan]

She sells. She's a total grifter. She speaks in tongues, literally thumps her Bible.

[Sammy Sage]

Paula.

[Angie Sullivan]

Paula.

[Jennifer Welch]

Paula White.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

Right.

[Angie Sullivan]

And she sells like angels for a thousand dollars. I'm just a total scam artist.

[Jennifer Welch]

But Bibles for a thousand dollars.

[Angie Sullivan]

I've never seen such overt religiosity. And I thought it would be a lot to top W. And I, I mean, I couldn't stand George W. Bush through that. I had to watch like Jon Stewart to get through it every night. But the religiosity with Trump coupled with the immorality is such a staggering thing to see.

[Sammy Sage]

One of my favorite things to watch of Trump is clips of him talking about God. They will never cease to amaze you. Just. I'm gonna send you some because they are like, just. It always becomes about like, God, me.

[Jennifer Welch]

God gave it to me.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. Yes. It's always that.

[Jennifer Welch]

We've had Michael Cohen, who was his right hand man, he's not religious. He thought they were stupid. Like, he was like, can you believe the bullshit? They're buying this bullshit. I mean, and you will appreciate this, growing up Catholic, when He calls it 2 Corinthians.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes.

[Jennifer Welch]

I'm just like, girl, that's one of my favorite things. Everybody knows it. Second Corinthians.

[Sammy Sage]

Or when he also is like, try. They. He's asked his favorite Bible verse and he, like, can't name one. No, that's another good one.

[Angie Sullivan]

Yeah, it's bad. Yeah.

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[Angie Sullivan]

But I do think he's been around. All of these people have told him he's so susceptible to suggestion and flattery. That's why he's so easily manipulated by very nefarious people, like Vladimir Putin. So he's surrounded by these Bible thumpers, and they're like, God has chosen you. You are our vessel. And they tell him over and over, and this has been going on since 2016, all these whack jobs telling him this. He, it just doesn't take much. And he's like, yep, God picked me. He picked me. I'm. I'm great. I'm God's favorite.

[Sammy Sage]

That's all he ever wanted. That's truly all he ever wanted. He just wanted to be, like, the best person in the world. And now they're all telling him, like, you're the savior, that he's in the Jesus posters, he's muscly, like, let's talk.

[Angie Sullivan]

About how homoerotic that is.

[Sammy Sage]

Oh, yes, cumulative. Back to that V. I'm back on it.

[V. Speer]

Like I said, I think that there is some sort of, like, sex weirdness here with a lot of what goes on with the Republicans and with especially the AI that they project for themselves. Like, Trump is forever this hyper toxic, masculine character. And the thing that I think is so disappointing about him being president during the age of AI slop is that it really doesn't seem to matter that it's not real. He takes on the feeling and truly believes that it is real. Like, he's so delusional that he will. Like, it started with the NFTs, right? And then he really believed that he was in the military because he saw.

[Angie Sullivan]

A picture of himself on top of a journey. The lead singer of Georgia. Okay, I have a theory about. About Republican men. And so I have a lot of gay male friends because when I'm not a podcaster, I'm an interior designer and so on. Grindr in Oklahoma, full of Republican, suppressed Republican men, right, that are married with the kids, the whole nine. I think a lot of these men probably watch a lot of porn. And sometimes when they're watching porn, the penis excites them a little bit. And maybe that was the money shot. Something to do with a hard cock, right? And so then they go back into their Christian world and it's like, oh, God. God knows that. Oh, my God, this turned me on. And then it's all of this anti phobia, this homophobia is born from that. Because if you've ever been to a country in Western bar, we had Jared Freed on our podcast once, and he pointed this out. They wear these tight wranglers, these cowboys. I mean, the butts just all there and the big, you know, it looks pretty gay. And then if you go to, like, you know, rural Oklahoma, a lot of the women look pretty gay. You know, I mean, there's a. There's a real fine line between a cowgirl and a lesbian.

[V. Speer]

I'm going to tell you. When I've had to drive. I lived in Tennessee and I look like this, okay. And when I had to, like, stop at a gas station at night, I would try to decide to myself, do I try to look like a man or like a farmer's wife? Like, what am I trying to play here for safety? And then I'd, like, be talking to my wife. I'd be like, yeah, I can't wait to get home. And Stephen's gonna get a good dinner tonight. If I was, like, afraid I could look like a. Like a, you know, country person, or I could look like a city lesbian. It's a very fine line, though.

[Angie Sullivan]

Be careful. It's a total. It's totally a fine line.

[V. Speer]

When you look at what men seek, it is. It is dominance, it is power, it is all those things. So if they don't feel that in themselves, then they're seeking it from the content that they consume and that they. Using these men, whether it's in porn or in television or it's Donald Trump as a proxy for what they wish they were. And I just wish that they would go to therapy or make a friend or, like, not do that because they would realize that, like, actually that is all fake and set to kind of like destroy you and divide us. This idea, like, women don't actually want to be with a guy with like a foot and a half long dick, okay? Nobody's, nobody's here for that. Like, some of the stuff that you guys think is sexy and cool is actually really painful and awful. And nobody to wants. Wants it.

[Sammy Sage]

It's just toxic. Masculinity is what they're taught is cool. Cool and like, we should model it. And what's really fucking devastating is that that is what won the Republicans the last election is that they just saturated the Internet with these viewpoints that basically were like, you're amazing. You're amazing. The world has been telling you that you have it, that you are, you know, imperfect and toxic and you're great just the way entitled. You're entitled. It's so hard to get a job if you' white man.

[Angie Sullivan]

Right.

[Sammy Sage]

Like, and the women took it away from you because they left the kitchen.

[V. Speer]

But also, look at the people on the left that the right pointed out as the ones to hate the most. Right. Harry Sisson, very cute young guy. Hassan, who has said that most of his viewers are good or a good number of his viewers are men. And he knows if he shows his armpits, he'll get better tips. And I'm like, okay, you know, that's.

[Sammy Sage]

Their turn on his armpits.

[V. Speer]

Yes. They're picking like the, the very attractive podcast bros on the left. And then they're also sort of like self flagellating to how much they hate these guys, even though they're secretly attracted to these guys. Like, it's a weird.

[Angie Sullivan]

It's really weird.

[V. Speer]

Why I'm a lesbian.

[Angie Sullivan]

I feel like we're in the most regressive time period. And the whole I. I do think that there is a problem with young boys and I think that, you know, unmitigated access to porn and influencers like Andrew Tate and, you know, Joe Rogan and on and on deep that goes. But what I. And I do think we need to address it. The narrative that is unfolding that pisses me off about this is what you just spoke about, Sammy. And it is that it's the women's fault instead of society's issue. You know, there's always with men, with Donald Trump and with men, everything. For every failure they have, there's always someone to blame. They're titty babies, constantly victim. And that's the component I don't like about it. And if you want to raise men to you know, whatever masculinity is for each individual person, it's not to blame others. And that personal accountability thing seems to be gone. And I just feel like we're living in the most regressive, stupid of times.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, because I think they're taught something that what is manly is, like, aggression and force and, like, beating people down when. And that, you know, I think, kind of dovetails with the religious thing, where you have to be very overt about your religion and, like, making a big splash and, like, big donations and you need these giant, tacky churches. Like, real confidence is quiet. Real ma. Real strength is protecting people. Real leadership is putting people, you know, being. Taking one for the team. Like, the captain goes down with the ship, you know, should they have to go down, you know, if we don't. We don't want that, obviously. But, like, that is. That was taught as this, like, like, so it's this model for what masculinity is. And I think that honestly, like, this might even be why I think the Democrats have trouble kind of speaking to or kind of algorithmically cultivating this. This male base. I think is because guys who just like Jared Freed, we've talked about this with him on this, where it's like, he doesn't need to, like, be told, oh, you're so much better than these women who are taking your spots. He just wants to, like, kind of be. But there's no algorithm that's gonna, you know, pick him up. It's like all kind of like, that's what he. Like he has to look up to. There's no sort of just like, normal guy who is cool with themselves and others.

[Angie Sullivan]

I think the. The situation that's missing from this component addressing men properly and what's missing from the Democratic Party is we're not fighters. And I think that there is this, like, if you look at Hakeem Jeffries or Chuck Schumer, it's just like, oh, my God, we're literally. This is it. This is fascism. We are here. And people should be pissed and they should be fighting. If you think about when Donald Trump first came out, before he was the nominee in 2016, he did something that everybody loved that even I enjoyed watching. He called Ted Cruz a few liar. He called little Ryan Ted. And there was something refreshing about seeing these politicians that are so beholden to corporations and have no spine, no courage, seeing them get called out. Well, of course, then he's the worst of the worst, and he goes on and on. But if the Democrats could consistently and cohesively start calling this out, Calling them out for being, you know, crybaby men that whine and complain all the time and did it forcefully. That would hit hard in red states. That would actually hit hard with country club Republicans. But this whole notion that you. How we try to talk about different language for police, right. It's just it, it needs to be tougher. It needs to be. People need to be called out, like, why are you so triggered by a drag queen? That's fucking weird. Do you beat off to him in your private.

[V. Speer]

Thank you.

[Sammy Sage]

Thank you.

[Angie Sullivan]

Why are you so upset about a bathroom? What's wrong with you? Do you have a small dick? Yeah, I mean, just real aggressive like that. And I think the Democrats numbers would just start rising.

[V. Speer]

Rahm Emanuel's like, we should go more center. Bernie's out there saying, I think we went too gay and black people.

[Sammy Sage]

And like, people don't understand. It's not about center, moderate left. Those, those things are not real in the minds of the average person and the non voter and like the marginal voter. All they see is style. And are they go, are you fighting for the average person? Or do you at least kind of look like you are? Or are you part of the establishment and are you like a weak little, like cosmopolitan baby? Kind of. And that's all that.

[V. Speer]

I think people call them weird. The best.

[Angie Sullivan]

And then they started trotting around with Liz Cheney, who said on camera that Democrats murder babies after, after they were born. And you know, she says that, that late term abortion. Liz Cheney said that. And then Kamala trots around with her and I am sorry they tried to.

[V. Speer]

Get me and Sammy to come to that. I don't know if we're supposed to talk about that. But they, they were like, me and.

[Sammy Sage]

Sammy, they were like, we have a really important opportunity in Wisconsin. It's gonna be huge. And they're like, we can't tell you it's an endorsement, but we can't tell you what it is. We thought it was going to be George Bush, maybe like something like, maybe.

[V. Speer]

Like, I, I cannot. I cannot even put into words how hard they tried to get me and Sammy to come to this thing and how much they teased it as this huge opportunity, groundbreaking, like, exclusive. And then I was like, I'm not going to Wisconsin tomorrow. I don't have time for that. And she was like, I'm not. I don't want to go. And then it was the Liz Cheney endorsement. I'm like, we are so lucky that we didn't go, because what Would I have done with that?

[Angie Sullivan]

Here's the thing about that. They think the people that are inside the beltway think this is going to get the country club Republicans in red states to vote for Kamala. They're never going to vote for you, ever. These are people that in, in public act like they're gay friendly, they act like they're not racist. But in private, they are all of those things. And there's no conviction. It is this worship of capitalism. And so when the Democrats do not hold firm and hold the line with their base, and here's a distinction I want to make Bill Maher often criticize as people like us because we want purity. And I don't want purity. I want clarity. And if on Liz Cheney's record, if, if she's not been clear about a woman's right to choose and she has repeated the big lie that affects women in my state from now able to get an abortion because they medically need it. And she says that these late term abortions, a baby is born and then the doctors kill it. That has never happened. That's the eating the dogs, eating the cats, litter box. But the Republicans do all this with impunity and they're never called out. And if some Democrats would call them out, if Kamala would have called her out, women would have been even more fired up for her. But when you feel people playing it safe and you want everybody to like you, nobody likes you. That's why the people that love Trump, they, they triple trump, dry hump that all the time. Because he always is consistent about being a dick. He's compassionate about it and he's passionate about it. I'm sorry, I only got four. I only got like, I got five hours of sleep.

[Sammy Sage]

Don't worry, you're killing it.

[V. Speer]

Sammy, this might be our good chance to switch to the first topic that we wanted to talk to you guys about, which is the Democrats trying to reach men while forgetting that women exist with their 20 million dollar. Sam, we're here. Heard about Sam.

[Jennifer Welch]

No, no.

[Sammy Sage]

Oh, okay.

[V. Speer]

Read it to him, Sammy.

[Sammy Sage]

Okay. You're gonna love this. Okay. In the New York Times, I don't know if you've been seeing, there's like series of reporting on what the Democrats are trying to do, how they're spending their money, trying to get a message. And there was a long piece in the New York Times this week and it opened with talking about how a consultant asks focus groups to describe. Use animals to describe the parties.

[Angie Sullivan]

Oh, I read this.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes. Okay. So one person said that the Democrats are a deer in headlights. You stand there and you see the car coming, but you're going to stand there and get hit with it anyway. Anyway, that is how these people describe the Democrats. And I can agree, like, that is, like, exactly how I feel. But then they go on to say that Democratic donors and strategists have been gathering at luxury hotels to discuss how to win back working class voters, commissioning new projects that can read like anthropological studies of people from faraway places. The prospectus for one new $20 million effort. This is what kills me. Do you know what you could do with that fucking money?

[V. Speer]

Like, okay, 20 million.

[Sammy Sage]

They're trying to reverse the erosion of Democratic support among young men, especially online. It's codenamed Sam, short for Speaking with American Men. A strategic plan and promises investment to study the syntax, language, and content that gains attention and virality in these spaces. It recommends buying advertisements in video games, among other things. And above all, we must shift from a moralizing tone. Okay, you spend $20 million to have someone tell you that. And you could get a child to tell you this, right? Like, it's literally so obvious. And the fact that they're spending this money that they can then pay the exact people who failed the past four years, eight years, so that they can then pay them to do the same things again. It is, Matt. I've had it. One might say.

[Angie Sullivan]

Totally.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[V. Speer]

What do y' all think?

[Angie Sullivan]

It's insane. It is completely insane. Y' all. You mentioned Rahm Emanuel, and I got in a huge fight with him on our podcast about three or four weeks ago, and it went viral. And what pissed me off about it is, did these centrist saviors think that we're fucking stupid? When he trots out to me on our podcast and he says, you know, the Democrat Kamala was, wasn't good in the kitchen table issues or the living room issues. The only place she was good was the bathroom issues. And I just went, she wasn't. He wasn't.

[Sammy Sage]

What? They didn't answer that ad.

[Angie Sullivan]

I called him out immediately and just said, donald Trump is droning on about Hannibal Lecter bobbing around with a Puppy killer for 45 minutes listening to Andrea Bocelli. But the Democrats are talking about bathrooms too much. And this is what pisses me off about it. If you look at the the states, Andy Brashear one in Kentucky, which is a deeply red state because he didn't sell trans kids, gay people, or women down the river. He has conviction, and he brilliantly used his faith to Justify it. And America has a crazy Christian problem. And we talked about it earlier and nobody deals with it because then the Christians are like, oh, my God, we're being persecuted. It's like you. You weaponize your religion to, you know, fleece the poor and to victimize and further marginalize people, but you wear your Christian cross. You know, they accuse us of virtue signaling. I think the Republicans, Christian signal. I mean, look at everybody.

[V. Speer]

Diamond and gold cross.

[Sammy Sage]

Right on.

[Jennifer Welch]

Caroline Levitt.

[Angie Sullivan]

They're Christian signaling. They do.

[Sammy Sage]

It's all that, like, a thing. Actually, I think that. I think the issue with, like, this lack of communication is that it's just not clear. Like. Like the way that what you're saying about clarity versus purity is very true. Like, we need people who can just call it like it is. And Andy Bashir did a great job of that without having to, like, waffle and speak out of both sides of his mouth. It's like he is a real. A person of faith doesn't really matter what religion you are, in my view. It's like if you are a person of faith, you believe that all of God's creatures are loved by God and created by God. It's really very simple, cornerstone of the whole thing. And if you believe that, then. And whether or not you think your Bible tells you whatever, it's up to God. In that case, why are you sitting here policing people's lives, judging them? Why are you. Why are you taking your power and using it to police what people's bathrooms are? And I thought AOC did a great job with this, too. Is that what this leads is gen. Where this leads us to genital checks. This leads to people being assaulted because they look like the wrong gender when. Because people are, like, policing what bathroom people are using. And it's an insane use of time.

[Angie Sullivan]

It is. And I think Andy Bershear, he was in Oklahoma City and he came by our studio and we filmed with him. And he very passionately said, who was going to stand up for these kids? They were getting bullied in my race. And who was going to stand up for them? And he didn't sell them down the river. The thing about the gender issue is the cat's out of the bag. So if you want to ram a manual it and say, we're not going to talk about the bathroom anymore, it's out of the bag. And plan needs to be if you want to bully trans kids. If you're telling me you went to school and you were never at school with a tomboy or with a super effeminate guy. Everybody's had that experience. Doesn't just happen in Oklahoma. Doesn't happen in the United States of America. This is a global thing that's happened since the beginning of time.

[Sammy Sage]

It's also in.

[Angie Sullivan]

Quit being a dick about it.

[Jennifer Welch]

Right.

[Angie Sullivan]

You know, quit being dicks. And I think if we would attack back and say, why are you guys such dicks? Why do you pick on people?

[Sammy Sage]

Yes.

[Angie Sullivan]

But instead the Democratic Party wants to have all these circle jerks and spend $20 million about how message things. And it's just, it's so frustrating when you look at the party. Bernie Sanders and AOC get tens of thousands of people, but they're not beholden to corporations, so they don't fit into that Democratic narrative. And everybody's sick of it. Yeah, everybody is sick of it.

[Sammy Sage]

And how hard is it to say, like, why is what's happening to these children in school and the sports teams they're on? Why is that a national issue? Why is that an issue of national importance? If you want to talk about improving people's lives, how does this actually help anybody?

[Angie Sullivan]

Because they move the goalposts. George W. Bush, they put the marriage issue on the ballot. Then you get the decision under the, you know, Supreme Court. And then now they've moved. They moved it to drag queens, and then that wasn't getting enough traction, and now they've moved it to trans kids, and they keep moving the goalposts. And so if you think about what Republicans have taken, you live up here and you feel pretty protected in this liberal bubble, but in a state like Oklahoma, it is the experimentation grounds for MAGA policies. And they've already taken away abortion. They are already putting the Ten Commandments in the schools are nuts. Superintendent of school is buying Trump Bibles. He wants.

[Sammy Sage]

Oh, yeah, he wants to teach.

[Angie Sullivan]

He said total nut. And so they keep moving the goalposts and taking more and more rights away. And the Democrats need to have a mantra. None of us are free until all of us are free. And they need to stand for equality, quit calling it equity, go back to equality and stand for those basic civil rights freedoms and have a real movement. And there's just such a jagged message from the Democratic Party. And the leadership is just wet blanket city.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes, I saw that. They just changed the curriculum in Oklahoma to make it so that you have to teach the 2020 election conspiracy theory.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah, they want you to, but they're teaching that in Oklahoma schools starting in August of 2020.

[Angie Sullivan]

Here's the deal. I'm just going to say this. The school superintendent, back to your point. I'm just telling you. I guarantee you, when rubber hits the road, he is not thinking about vaginas and boobies. That's all I'm saying. Thou doth protest a little bit too much as far as I'm concerned.

[Sammy Sage]

I agree.

[Angie Sullivan]

All right, here's what I want to talk to you guys about, okay? Elon Musk is now trotting out that he is going back to the private sector. I'm calling on the entire thing. I think his head is so far up Trump's ass, or vice versa. I think it's a menage a trois with Vladimir Putin. I think these. There's no way he's doing this. I think the board of directors at Tesla are like, listen up, you. You're doing sick heils. Our brand is in the. We're not selling cars anymore. Nobody's buying them in Europe, Canada, etc. And so he's like, okay, I'm going to tiptoe over here. But when you saw. When they did that Middle east thing, he's always right there. He's ubiquitous everywhere. What do you all think about that?

[Sammy Sage]

Well, Tesla's business is their. Most of their revenue now comes from selling carbon credits, which they now get because they're, you know, electric. They're not getting revenue from cars. Like, they have basically, like, flipped their revenue. So now it's mostly from these carbon credits, not from selling cars. So that's really a threat to his business. I do think that's all correct. I also think that he. About a year ago, maybe a year and a half ago from right about now, Elon Musk said that he wasn't going to spend any money in the 2024 election, right?

[Angie Sullivan]

Oh, yes.

[Sammy Sage]

Remember?

[Angie Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

The man. You can't believe one word he says. You have to just look. What is his North Star? White supremacy, right? Money taking over the world.

[Jennifer Welch]

Babies.

[Sammy Sage]

Honestly, I think it's not even babies. I think it's his babies that, like, he wants to populate the Earth, Genghis Khan style.

[V. Speer]

I don't think it happened to him. His dick too, though, because he does all the babies by ivf. He has weird wean.

[Jennifer Welch]

There's a rumor about that.

[Angie Sullivan]

A botched penis surgery.

[Sammy Sage]

Implant. The implant.

[Jennifer Welch]

Implant does that.

[Sammy Sage]

But it went bad. And yeah, that's. I heard that, too.

[Angie Sullivan]

But let's just talk about the breathtaking hypocrisy of this maga Moses. Mike Johnson says God woke him up in the middle night, told him, you're Moses. Okay? That's delusion.

[Sammy Sage]

If anyone else said that, they would be put in the nut house.

[Angie Sullivan]

Right? But. But then you have. Have these people worship Elon Musk. And these are the faith and family and freedom value. You know, like, we got the flag. We're going to do the, you know, national anthem. They probably get a tear. They support the troops. And then Elon Musk is jizzing in petri dishes all over the place. And there are rumors that he has over 100 kids. That the 13 are. That's not even the true story. And his end goal is to have 5,000 kids. Kids. And then there was an article in Vanity Fair or somewhere that he thinks he is the reincarnated spirit of like, Alexander the Great or somebody. Did you. Have you read this?

[Sammy Sage]

I've. He.

[Angie Sullivan]

There's.

[Sammy Sage]

There's. Yes, there's like a lot of. I don't know exactly the facts to cite them here, but this. He definitely thinks he is like the, like a ground zero of men. And like, I think he even like the Mars stuff.

[V. Speer]

Right?

[Sammy Sage]

I think that, like, that's bullshit because if you wanted to go to Mars, you'd be working on that, not on all this other stuff.

[LifeLock Advertiser]

Stuff.

[Sammy Sage]

But I do think there is a part of him that wants to like, upload his conscience and make sure he lives forever. And then all these children can maybe, like, populate another planet.

[Angie Sullivan]

You know who's called him out on this before? Briefly. So there's some inner maga cannibalism that we all need to keep that eyes on. Yes. Steve Bannon has said Elon Musk with these freaky God experiments. And then you've got Laura Loomer. And so we just all need to have our popcorn buttered and ready because there's no way all of these freaks are going to get through these four years without tattletailing on each other. It's just impossible.

[V. Speer]

Elon's the weirdest of them all. And the 5,000 children might be to replace the alleged white genocide that's happening in South Africa as well, which he's got his AI Grok trained to reaffirmed the idea of this white genocide that's not happening in South Africa. And that's been one of the bigger issues, like some of the South African cults that we're learning about now.

[Sammy Sage]

Just haven't seen that Netflix.

[Angie Sullivan]

Think about, think about.

[V. Speer]

Read about it on My Substance.

[Angie Sullivan]

Or Joe Biden or Barack Obama had a billionaire BFF that was tripping balls on ketamine. Shutting down Investigations into their own companies, rewarding themselves, their own companies. These people have lost their minds over the Soros family for decades. I mean, they literally have gone apeshit bananas over it. And then Elon Musk. And by their logic, if I'm a former illegal immigrant. Right, Right.

[Sammy Sage]

If I admitted.

[Angie Sullivan]

If I thought, you know, per Stephen Miller, America is for Americans only.

[V. Speer]

Right.

[Angie Sullivan]

And then you have this South African. But I guess the pigment in his skin, it's a different. Correct.

[Sammy Sage]

Money. The emeralds, the green of his money.

[V. Speer]

It's the fact that he is also a loser weirdo. And they. And then other loser weirdos are like, oh, we're the cool guys now. It's the worst time revenge of the nerds we could have ever hoped for. We were supposed. You were supposed to be good, not freaks.

[Angie Sullivan]

I think one of the biggest lies the Republican Party has perpetrated on the American public is that people that are wealthy are smart.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes.

[Angie Sullivan]

Oh, my God. Always this transference where Elon Musk is a genius, and it's like he seems like he's dumber than a box of hot rocks to me. Donald Trump is a genius. He's a dipshit of the highest order. If you meet a lot of wealthy people are not that bright.

[Sammy Sage]

I would say about half of them.

[V. Speer]

Right.

[Sammy Sage]

Like, people who. I would give it a 50. 50, because some of them are. Were just positioned nicely.

[Angie Sullivan]

Yes.

[Sammy Sage]

Some of them, like, were positioned nicely. Uninherited genes from someone who.

[Angie Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Earned the money or just like, they are smart and, you know, did some. Right. Yeah. It is touch. It is such. And I think it is one of the biggest problems. It's like the halo effect. It's like when you think a beautiful person is, like, kind, generous.

[Jennifer Welch]

Right.

[Sammy Sage]

Like, Right.

[Jennifer Welch]

Goes back to the worship of capitalism.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes.

[Jennifer Welch]

And the fake narrative.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes.

[Jennifer Welch]

They're rich. They must be smart. They must be good people. They must want the best for everybody.

[Sammy Sage]

No, probably not. One thing I want to ask. Ask is what do you think about Laura Loomer and the power of Laura Loomer? Because I think we've, you know, I kind of thought of her as like, okay, like this hanger on. How did she. How does she have seemed to have gotten, like, actual influence?

[Angie Sullivan]

I don't know. I mean, I could. I could be catty and petty.

[Sammy Sage]

So could I.

[Angie Sullivan]

And I could be like, okay, did they. Did they screw? And she has that over him and she's got some evidence.

[Jennifer Welch]

I don't think she would care of people then.

[Sammy Sage]

But I think there would be other People like. I also think other people would have have been like, there would be other examples of that that we could point to, like Hope Hicks, but she never had any influence.

[Jennifer Welch]

Lar Loomer has been die hard. Trump has kissed his ass, has beat his drum, and he values loyalty. Feast or famine, she's always pro Trump. She always acts like she has his best interest at heart. She is do or die. He's the best, he's the smartest, he's the most athletic, his sticks the biggest. And he likes it, he likes that adoration. And you go back years and years and years, people that are loyal to him, like Allen Weisselberg, Rikers island, he values that. And so I think that he values her. And let's face it, is there any other woman that's attractive, that's in his orbit, that will be around him? Like, Melania won't come within miles of them. I mean, you don't see for Susie walk. Right, Right. I mean, she's kind of an attract, attract younger that admires him, that probably tells him his makeup looks great.

[Angie Sullivan]

She's probably really savvy. Like she knows, I mean, the biggest any armchair psychiatrist. Yeah. She knows that if you pile on superficial praise, he's 100% in. That's all superficial flattery. And he's 100. And that's why Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong Un, they know exactly how to play him. It's the easiest thing on the planet. All these dictators in the Middle east, they knew exactly what to do and it works. And I think she's probably savvier than we realize, but the fact Hassan actually called this out, he, they were on the plane on the way to the, to the debate and Hassan said, I guarantee you he's on the plane with Laura Loomer. He's going to come out and he's going to have conspiracy theories about people eating dogs and cats. And Hassan is like live twitching or whatever it's called. And she, he says it and so it's like, oh my God, it's this great viral moment because she just plants this stuff. And he doesn't fact check anything. No, he loves conspiracy theories.

[Sammy Sage]

I guess we're used to it being like Peter Navarro or, you know, some of the other people who get in his ear, Stephen Miller, and then it's more the like normal stuff. But with her, it's sort of. It feels personal.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah, she's rabbit hole girl, but she's. I think their dysfunctions kind of fit too, because she's had three. Her dad's put her in at least twice on a 5150 hole.

[Sammy Sage]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yes. And he is crazier than a shithouse. I think their mental illnesses match on trauma.

[Sammy Sage]

I've been on a. That's a big deal.

[Jennifer Welch]

And this woman has three times.

[Sammy Sage]

And she's gotten the national security.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yes.

[Sammy Sage]

She got the head of the NSA fired. And she's just like a woman. She's just like what 35 year old woman who's just podcasting. It's like, it's like if I got to be in with Joe Biden and was like. Right. Because they wouldn't let me.

[Jennifer Welch]

Right.

[Angie Sullivan]

Yeah, yeah. It's crazy. She's crazy. And Stephen Miller, they're both Jewish.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes.

[Angie Sullivan]

But they both sound like Nazis. It's this really weird thing, all of this. Somebody we were talking to we had on the podcast the other day, he was talking about anti Semitism on college campuses. And I really like. What about the anti Semitism in the current administration?

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, I think honestly that's a. First of all, this is a function of the fact that people are in like different in information worlds.

[Angie Sullivan]

Right.

[Sammy Sage]

So what they're seeing emphasized is what they see emphasized. But I think that it's like a more complex issue. But I actually do think that more of them are seeing that like it's closing in from both sides and it's just. Yeah. You'll check back with him in six months.

[Angie Sullivan]

Yeah.

[V. Speer]

It's not a reality show. And in fact, like he could have played this like a reality show if he didn't fire all the federal employees that actually keep the trains running on time.

[Jennifer Welch]

Right.

[V. Speer]

The first administration, all the federal employees, you know, the clock in, clock out folks kept doing their job. Even though he was wacko crazy, even though his people were not that great. This time he went for super loyalists who are totally insane, completely performative, but they fired all those second level employees that actually make things go. Pete Hegseth could fly around and pretend like he's headed the military all he wanted as long as he kept the right people in place. He didn't. So we're seeing a lot of failures. Right. He. If he had kept people who are normal at the IRS or kept them at the Institute of Peace or any of these places, everything would have kept on going. And he could have played reality star all day.

[Sammy Sage]

That was Elon's job. And also they saved like no money. So.

[Angie Sullivan]

The whole purpose of that was for him to shut down investigations into his county companies.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes.

[Angie Sullivan]

That was the sole Purpose of Doge, it wasn't to save money. That was a ruse. That was a lie. He shut down 16 investigations into his companies and then rewarded those companies money. Yeah. Stole data. And.

[Sammy Sage]

And he's probably using that data. We'll find out for what.

[Angie Sullivan]

Probably giving it to Putin or something. Right.

[Sammy Sage]

You see, that's what I always thought.

[Jennifer Welch]

Backdoored it, like, within minutes.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes. Right. That there was some painting from Russia. And also, like, my feeling has that they've been trying to kind of, of those three, trying to take over, you know, the world in their own way. Like, they want control in, like, a transnational sense, not in. They're not seeing it as countries who.

[Angie Sullivan]

Rank out of those three from smartest to dumbest.

[Sammy Sage]

Oh, I mean, definitely Putin's smartest.

[Jennifer Welch]

Right. Then you gotta.

[V. Speer]

I mean, it's kind of gotta go, Elon.

[Jennifer Welch]

I go Elon next. Because Trump is so intellectually compromised.

[V. Speer]

But.

[Sammy Sage]

But I think Trump has a certain something that is. I don't know what type of intelligence I would call it.

[Jennifer Welch]

It's like the marketing intelligence, the branding.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes. I don't. But Elon does have that, too. I guess Elon must be second because he, like, did do something, you know.

[Angie Sullivan]

Hasn'T bankrupted a casino.

[Sammy Sage]

Right, sure. Okay, fine. Elon, too.

[Angie Sullivan]

You know, I've been. For me, those two are splitting here. I think if Elon Musk were sober, I do think he has a drug addiction.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[Angie Sullivan]

My husband's in recovery, and you can just see the addict in him. And I do think he's also addicted to Twitter. And I think people can have an online, you know, social media addiction. So maybe a sober Elon isn't that big of a nut, and he's more intelligent. But addict Elon, and. And, you know, the thing about Trump, this is crazy. So Pumps got more into politics through the Trump period, and I've always been a political junkie, but she didn't realize until, like, after he was out of the office in the first term, she thought he was drunk.

[Jennifer Welch]

I thought he was drunk.

[Angie Sullivan]

Term. I know he was doing that. So I had no idea she was.

[V. Speer]

My drink never has.

[Angie Sullivan]

She was like, you're telling me he's doing all this sober now?

[Sammy Sage]

I mean, like. I mean, sober is a. Is a different question. He doesn't drink.

[V. Speer]

He doesn't drink drink. I think he does a lot of other stuff, but he's a New York. You know, like, I'm sure that there was, like, cocaine use and different things.

[Angie Sullivan]

There's always the Adderall, the Adderall but.

[Jennifer Welch]

Obviously he's not on that.

[V. Speer]

Diet pills. Right.

[Sammy Sage]

I would be up all night tweeting.

[V. Speer]

Well, it's the speed, for sure. I mean, that's.

[Jennifer Welch]

But do you think. Wouldn't he be thinner if he took Adderall?

[Sammy Sage]

At the rate that we think so, like, his tolerance is, like, so hot. Well, now I think he's on Ozempic. That's my.

[V. Speer]

He would be on. I think he's on Ozempic too, but I think he would have been thinner.

[Jennifer Welch]

I think he needs Those.

[V. Speer]

Only eat McDonald's and processed foods and things. I think that he. And he does zero exercise whatsoever.

[Sammy Sage]

So I think that there's sedentary.

[V. Speer]

There's part of that. I mean, I don't know. I feel like you do a little coke, you want to go out dancing. This guy wants to fucking ruin the country.

[Angie Sullivan]

Do you think it's like. Because sometimes he seems. The other day at the Memorial Day speech that he gave, he could barely open his eyes. You could have blindfolded the motherfucker with dental floss. I mean, it was just like, literally little slits and he's slurring and he gets. Cryptologist. Do you think that this is like, uppers then being chased by downers? Like a JFK style? I think it's script writing.

[Sammy Sage]

Okay. I also have a theory that he is undiagnosed dyslexic and he has like an. I think he has a. Like a learning disability that was fully treatable.

[Angie Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

And that he could have figured out had someone diagnosed him. But I could have been somebody when he was younger. I think that, like, he acted out. If I've read his biography, I've seen it all. So I think when he was younger, he, like, really acted out because he wasn't able to, like, read. But he was not a stupid kid, so he wasn't unable to communicate. And I think part of it was, like, a reaction to him having issues with school.

[Angie Sullivan]

That's a good theory. I'm. I'm.

[Sammy Sage]

That's a really good theory. Also, like Pete Davidson has said, like, the can't read. Like, there's people talk about how he can't read.

[Angie Sullivan]

He's a notorious non reader.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes, yes. And you look at his speeches, like, he's like, kinda. And it's not like people who are just like, can't read. It's like, I think he just struggles the way he would if he were, like, treated for this or did some sort of therapy. And I think that, that that's how we got him this way. And that's why I think he's actually over indexes on other types of intelligence. So that's my theory on Trump. I have a question for you guys. If because he is so prone to flattery, let's say you had to flatter him to get something, what would you say?

[Angie Sullivan]

Oh, my God.

[Jennifer Welch]

I would say better than Obama.

[Angie Sullivan]

100%. You have to go with Obama.

[Sammy Sage]

Right.

[Jennifer Welch]

Immediately.

[Sammy Sage]

And Biden. You beat Biden.

[Angie Sullivan]

Yeah, Immediately. Like, you have to go in with like, you know, a lot of women think Obama's hot. I really don't think he's that hot. I really like, you know, I like your style more. I think you have a better personality. I can only imagine you're a better taker. I don't care.

[Jennifer Welch]

Right.

[Angie Sullivan]

Stormy Daniels said, you know, I mean, I think you're a great golfer. Right. I think that would be a really good one.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[Angie Sullivan]

All of your golf championships. That's incredible.

[Sammy Sage]

Right.

[Angie Sullivan]

You win every single year at your own golf course. That's. Those stats are staggering.

[Sammy Sage]

Kim Jong Un station stats.

[Angie Sullivan]

Yeah. Vladimir Putin stats.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[Angie Sullivan]

What would y' all say to him?

[Sammy Sage]

We're gonna go one by one. We're all doing it.

[V. Speer]

I don't know. Now I'm thinking, what would the Qataris have said to him, though? Like, what's a real.

[Angie Sullivan]

Here's your plane.

[V. Speer]

That's true, I guess. I know you really are Mr. Manhattan, and that really, like, meant a lot to me as a person who values New York. You really embody what that city is, and I really look up to you for what you made. Manhattan, I think would be.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes, that's a good one. That's really hitting the. The childhood.

[V. Speer]

Disgusted.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. No, look, just, just.

[V. Speer]

I'm going to throw up. But yes, that's what I said.

[Jennifer Welch]

I would say how athletic he is. Start with better than Obama. Much better orator than Obama.

[Sammy Sage]

So much better that all the beautiful.

[Jennifer Welch]

Women seem to love him.

[Angie Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Welch]

There must be something about him, because only the most beautiful women like him.

[Angie Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. Back then.

[Jennifer Welch]

And magnetic. And then I would say he was athletic. Go on about the golf. I would say, you know, your hair, I mean, you're. You're almost 80 years old. You have the most gorgeous hair. I would. I think he, like, they say he wore the ball cap to the memorial because his bald spot was showing.

[Angie Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, didn't he once not attend a memorial because it was raining and he would.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yes. Normandy, Wasn't it Normandy?

[Sammy Sage]

It was Normandy. Yeah. It was Normandy. Famously, I would say, you know, when it comes to historical world leaders, I've never seen one like you. You are really something else.

[V. Speer]

There you go.

[Sammy Sage]

Sammy, you are just. I don't even know how anyone could think to compete with your brilliance on the world stage. And the way that you really just manipulate the shit out of everybody.

[V. Speer]

Right.

[Jennifer Welch]

Everybody fears you.

[Sammy Sage]

Everybody fears you. But even more, they love you.

[Jennifer Welch]

They love you.

[Sammy Sage]

They love and fear you in equal measure.

[Jennifer Welch]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

And you should consider being king. We should start a new United nations, and you should be in charge of it. And it should just be its own little fiefdom. And you're in charge of it.

[Angie Sullivan]

You would be Laura Loomer 2.0, ASAP.

[Sammy Sage]

Look, get me.

[V. Speer]

Holl would be printing off sheets for things that Sammy said about bottom. Right there. Yeah. What I said Natalie hall would be printing off sheets of things that Sam Harp. Natalie.

[Sammy Sage]

Natalie Harp.

[Angie Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Printer.

[V. Speer]

The.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah, printer.

[Angie Sullivan]

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Sammy Sage]

She would be transcribing. Look, there's a lot of mental illness mixing. Okay.

[V. Speer]

All right, well, lastly, what's the name of the book again?

[Angie Sullivan]

Life is a Lazy Susan of Sandwiches.

[V. Speer]

We love it. And it comes out today.

[Angie Sullivan]

Today.

[V. Speer]

Today.

[Angie Sullivan]

Wait, let me. Yeah, it came out last week. It came out on May 7th. And so you can click the link in our bio. You can find us at. I've had it podcast on all the places, all the platforms, and we have another podcast that drops daily, which is Ihip News, which is more political, like 10 or 15 minutes at a time. Because that's all really. You did Quick can handle.

[Sammy Sage]

I love that.

[Angie Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

And you know, look, the Democrats are searching for the next Joe Rogan. I don't know why we can't just. I've had it podcast. Look, like.

[V. Speer]

Look no further, Rogan.

[Sammy Sage]

Just invest in ladies voices and stop giving $20 million to people to study the syntax of men.

[Jennifer Welch]

Right.

[Sammy Sage]

Like, go to a sports bar.

[Angie Sullivan]

I know. For free.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. Maybe you have to buy a beer.

[V. Speer]

Until next time. I'm Fidus Spear.

[Sammy Sage]

And I'm Sammy Sage.

[V. Speer]

And this is American Fever Dream.

[Sammy Sage]

Good night, Betches.