USAID Cuts, The Future Of Telemedicine, and Trump Eying Canada

Summary

American Fever Dream Episode Summary: "USAID Cuts, The Future Of Telemedicine, and Trump Eying Canada"

Release Date: March 11, 2025
Host: V. Speer & Sammy Sage
Presented by: Betches Media

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1. Political Scandal: Senator Chris Murphy's Public Affair

The episode kicks off with V. Speer and Sammy Sage delving into recent political gossip surrounding Democratic Senator Chris Murphy and his new girlfriend, Tara McGowan, CEO of Courier Newsroom.

• V. Speer [02:01]: "Senator Murphy separated from his wife several weeks ago, where they were caught canoodling... it's interesting."

• Sammy Sage [02:59]: "She successfully orchestrated her own hard launch. That felt soft."

The hosts compare this incident to past political scandals, notably the affair involving Senator Murphy's predecessor and RFK Jr. They highlight the intentional nature of Murphy's public display, contrasting it with previous, more discreet scandals.

2. Trump's Aggressive Stance on Canada: Potential Annexation and Invasion

A significant portion of the discussion centers on alarming reports from the New York Times about former President Donald Trump's intentions to annex or invade Canada, as well as Greenland. The hosts reference Malcolm Nance, a former Navy intelligence analyst, who provides an in-depth assessment of these threats.

• Sammy Sage [11:43]: "There was some very alarming reporting... suggesting that Donald Trump and his administration have made some serious moves towards what looks like a strategy of wanting to annex, or should it come to it, invade Canada."

• Malcolm Nance's Analysis [18:17]: He outlines Trump's potential timeline of 6 to 18 months to destabilize Canada economically and politically, possibly integrating it into the Five Eyes intelligence-sharing group.

V. Speer [22:03]: "I just think it's ugly and unnecessary. It causes a lot of issues that don't need to be there."

The episode emphasizes the deep-rooted relationship between the U.S. and Canada, expressing concerns over the potential fallout from such aggressive policies.

3. USAID Cuts and the Future of Telemedicine

The hosts shift focus to domestic policy, specifically the Trump administration's decision to end telemedicine flexibilities for Medicare beneficiaries effective April 1, 2025.

• V. Speer [28:09]: "Telemedicine is extremely successful. It's boosted a ton of startup communities... now that could be ending."

• Sammy Sage [34:18]: "Those things just improve the American experience. And they don't care about improving the American experience because they're like, go get measles."

The discussion highlights the detrimental effects of these cuts, especially for rural communities reliant on telehealth services. They also touch upon the resurgence of diseases like measles and tuberculosis due to reduced funding and support from agencies like USAID.

4. Interview with Senator Slotkin: Democratic Messaging and Strategy

A pivotal segment features an interview with Senator Slotkin from Michigan, where she discusses effective Democratic messaging and strategies to counteract Republican policies.

• Senator Slotkin: "We have to be ruthless in prioritizing what we care about. We can't stop everything, but we must focus on what’s core to us."

• V. Speer [54:03]: "We don’t do it by cutting 70,000 jobs at the VA... Ending this hospital at home thing is very bad..."

Senator Slotkin emphasizes the importance of clear, focused messaging that resonates across the political spectrum. She advocates for addressing economic and national security while ensuring that policies benefit the working class rather than the wealthy elite.

• Senator Slotkin: "Players who make the most money are getting massive dividends. That’s out of whack."

The interview underscores the necessity for Democrats to unify their message to win elections, especially in swing states like Michigan, and to hold their Republican counterparts accountable for policy decisions that negatively impact ordinary Americans.

5. National Security Concerns and the Role of the Military

Towards the end of the episode, the hosts discuss broader national security issues, including the potential impacts of policy decisions on international relations and military readiness.

• V. Speer [67:27]: "Renaming bases has caused a lot of people not to like that... they just want to do these meme things all the time."

• Sammy Sage [70:31]: "He's weird."

They critique the Trump administration's approach to military traditions and base renaming, viewing it as a distraction from more pressing issues like economic instability and international conflicts.

6. Conclusion: Call to Action and Hope for the Future

The episode wraps up with a call to action, urging listeners to stay informed and proactive in countering harmful policies. The hosts express hope that focused efforts and clear messaging can mitigate some of the negative impacts discussed.

• Senator Slotkin: "We have agency here, but it has to be on issues that have broad appeal, not niche appeal."

• V. Speer [76:43]: "Until next time, I'm V. Speer."

The hosts reinforce the importance of collective action and staying engaged in the political process to safeguard democratic values and improve the American experience.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• V. Speer [02:01]: Discusses Senator Murphy's separation and public affair.

• Sammy Sage [11:43]: Highlights the New York Times' alarming reports on Trump's strategies towards Canada.

• V. Speer [28:09]: Emphasizes the success of telemedicine and the negative impact of its discontinuation.

• Senator Slotkin [54:03]: Critiques the current tax system favoring the wealthy.

• V. Speer [67:27]: Criticizes the Trump administration's handling of military traditions.

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This episode of American Fever Dream offers a comprehensive analysis of current political scandals, national security threats, and domestic policy changes, all while providing insightful commentary on the strategies needed to navigate and counteract these challenges. The hosts’ engaging dialogue and incorporation of expert opinions make the complex topics accessible to listeners seeking to stay informed and empowered.

Transcript

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[V. Speer]

Rise and shine, Fever dreamers. Look alive, my friends. I'm vspier.

[Sammy Sage]

And I'm Sammy Sage.

[V. Speer]

And this is American Fever Dream, presented by Batches News, where we explore the.

[Sammy Sage]

Absurdities and oddities of our uniquely American experience. Hello.

[V. Speer]

Bonjour, Sammy. I'm so excited for today's episode because we get to start with a little hot political gossip.

[Sammy Sage]

Hot political gossip. This is quaint. This is like 1992 shit.

[V. Speer]

You know, we haven't had this in so long. And you know what? I think as a country, we deserve it.

[Sammy Sage]

Thank you.

[V. Speer]

We deserve it.

[Sammy Sage]

Thank you. Thank you very much to Democratic Senator Chris Murphy and his new GF CEO of Courier Newsroom, Tara McGowan.

[V. Speer]

Yes. Now, look, Senator Murphy separated from his wife, you know, several weeks ago, where they were caught canoodling, I think. I think is intentional. I don't think anybody goes to the Red Hen if you're not trying to get caught cheating in D.C. but it's interesting. Yeah. We haven't had a senator. Well, we did have that. Who was the one over the. Remember that she was like. She was having an affair with rfk. She was claiming Olivia Nuzzy. Yes. That was the last one we had, but that one sort of blew over quick.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, I think that was like an actual embarrassment. And these two are being intentional.

[V. Speer]

Like, they're like, soft launch.

[Sammy Sage]

This is being. Not even. I would call it hard launching, because launching. So it was reported in Semaphore that she posted a selfie of them on her private Instagram last week and captioned it not postponing joy. So I think that's as hard a launch as you get.

[V. Speer]

That true. Yeah. So what I love about. What I love about this gossip is as a person who used to live in D.C. there are just certain things that happen in that city that let you know, like, what the intention is. Okay. Very few accidents happen in D.C. if she. If they were cheating. Right. And this was a big scandal and it was a big affair. You would never go to the Red Hen in Shaw. That's like a very trendy restaurant in a very trendy neighborhood.

[Sammy Sage]

It's a famous, like, it's a reference. It's where Sarah Huckabee Sanders was famously berated. Like, if you don't know any restaurants in D.C. but you. You've heard of the redhead, maybe have kind of heard of some. That would be one, you know.

[V. Speer]

Yes. So I looked back in my notes because if you're cheating, you don't go to a restaurant. You call the caterer. We come to your house, baby. You could have private dinners with however many people you want. But the thing that I was thinking back on is when I was working in D.C. was the height of Ashley Madison. And it was when Ashley Madison, that website where you could, like, sign up to cheat on your spouse, kind of got caught out. And the list of names of people got released. And I actually had a couple friends that were on it. And I was like, why are you on here? So Ashley Madison was very popular when I was working in D.C. and they reported that 10.4% of all Capitol Hill residents were registered users. It was like the highest of any city that they recorded in. It was like Washington, D.C. was first. New York City was second. Then it was like Pittsburgh, San Diego, like random weird other places. But D.C. was number one for Ashley Madison.

[Sammy Sage]

You know what I find interesting about that? It's such a buttoned up city.

[V. Speer]

Yes.

[Sammy Sage]

That they would have like a. Yeah, they would have, like a lot of shady shit going on that they're hiding poorly.

[V. Speer]

Well, the CEO of Ashley Madison put it really well. They interviewed him about why they think people in D.C. are so likely to cheat. And he said, quote, first, most people who achieve a high level of success do so from taking professional risks that, for the most part, have paid off. And this underlying personality trait may then lead these individuals to take personal risks as well. Second, cheating is directly correlated to opportunity. The more successful you are, the more you tend to travel for work and pleasure and more often are removed from your family and interacting with individuals with whom commonalities surface.

[Sammy Sage]

So that sounds accurate, especially because when you think about it, a lot of people who live in D.C. actually maintain two residences. So they're like. I think there's a much more mobile sense within dc. Like, people are way more transient, in and out.

[V. Speer]

So, like, it's like. I don't know, it's like what you see on TV. It's like sexy D.C. cheating. Like affairs like scandal, like, all this business. There's a whole restaurant. Well, it's a lounge in D.C. called Saks Lounge, and the entire place is themed for political scandals of the past. Like political sex scandals of the past. It's also a burlesque club. I think that that's hysterical. Should we go? Let's go. We'll do a live episode from the Sax Lounge. I think that would be great.

[Sammy Sage]

That sounds actually so fun.

[V. Speer]

Yes, but places that I. I have seen people cheat or be around. That would be better if you were trying to hide it, which is why we think they're not trying to hide it. This is, like, obviously.

[Sammy Sage]

No, they're. She posted it on Instagram.

[V. Speer]

It's out. It's out.

[Sammy Sage]

She actually, like, successfully orchestrated her own hard launch. That felt soft.

[V. Speer]

I'm excited about it, too, because, honestly, Chris Murphy has been killing it with the digital strategy. Maybe more Democratic senators and congresspeople should be dating publicists or marketing girlies or something, because he's been doing a great job, man.

[Sammy Sage]

So that's actually what I was wondering. Do you think this is why he's suddenly gotten smart on messaging? Because he has a youth in his ear?

[V. Speer]

Yes, absolutely. That chart, he did like, the calendar of all Trump's crimes and grifts since the election.

[Sammy Sage]

She thought of that?

[V. Speer]

Absolutely, she did. She's good at her job. Career news is good. They're great. So. Yeah. But no, if you're going to cheat, these are some of the places. If you. And if you're in D.C. as a tourist and you want to, like, see if your senator is cheating. You want to check the Rigsby Hotel Fiamma, The Duck and the Peach Central Lina or the Blue Duck. The Blue Duck was Obama's favorite restaurant. I'm not saying he cheated. I'm just saying it has a lot of privacy to it.

[Sammy Sage]

Right.

[V. Speer]

Well, those are my hot picks.

[Sammy Sage]

Go to any of those after we go to the snacks lounge.

[V. Speer]

Yeah, that's my hot picks for places you'll catch a senator with a publicist.

[Sammy Sage]

Or not. Because.

[V. Speer]

Or not.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. Okay, well, if, you know, maybe we could matchmake some single senators with some single people.

[V. Speer]

We should. We should do you know, it's too bad Valentine's Day passed because we could have done an American fever dream speed date where we like, like, put people who need help with messaging who are lawmakers with single and eligible marketing girlies and seen if we, if we could have improved our messaging, maybe. Maybe it's up to us, Sammy.

[Sammy Sage]

I think that should be our next project.

[V. Speer]

It is. It'll be a reality show like Love is Blind, except it'll be called like, Message Me. Message Me. Sammy. See, this is why you own a media company.

[Sammy Sage]

Because you got just like this, names, names. I could probably do better. All right, when we get back from the break, we are going to talk about Canada. Oh, Canada.

[Dr. Naomi Bernstein]

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[V. Speer]

Welcome back, friends. We are here to talk about America's top hat, America's 51st state, all of these things.

[Sammy Sage]

No, don't say that. No, for real.

[V. Speer]

Oh, my gosh. Why? What? I thought we were doing jokes today. No, it's dangerous.

[Sammy Sage]

That's like a joke that is going to cause issues.

[V. Speer]

I love Canada. As a person who lives in Rochester, we go to Canada quite frequently. In Toronto is just over the border here. My wife played in a trio in Montreal. Like, we're very close to Canada up here, and I don't want them to be mad at us because I really enjoy that. Sort of like, it's called the Friendship Bridge. You know, Like, I don't want that to go away. The Friendship.

[Sammy Sage]

You're gonna hate the rest of this segment, then.

[V. Speer]

Oh, no, you really will.

[Sammy Sage]

Okay, well, let's just start with the lighter fare. A Canadian senator from Quebec named Patrick Brazo. They always have the best names.

[V. Speer]

True, they do.

[Sammy Sage]

Brazo.

[V. Speer]

I know French.

[Sammy Sage]

Yes. At least in that side in there. Has challenged Donald Trump Jr. To a boxing match for charity, tweeting, Christ, in light of these bogus tariffs, I challenge you to a fight to raise money for cancer research or an organization of your choosing. He later told CNBC that he is 100% serious and he would come to the United States for it. I mean, I don't think. If only it could all be this lovely.

[V. Speer]

You put Junior on enough blow and maybe he could land a couple jabs, but he. Yeah, he does not strike me as a fighter. I would almost think Eric Trump could fight better than Don junior. Don Junior's. I don't know. Either way, he's got weak little arms. He's like. He's like a Muppet to me.

[Sammy Sage]

There was some very alarming reporting in the New York Times late last week that suggests that Donald Trump and his administration have made some serious moves towards what looks like a strategy of wanting to annex, or should it come to it, invade Canada. Really?

[V. Speer]

Well.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, look, that's kind of like the worst scenario. And there is, you know, there's an assessment from Malcolm Nance that I'll get into in a second, which I feel confident enough to repeat. But let's talk about this reporting first. So as he's been joking about this, supposedly calling it the 51st state, calling him Governor Trudeau, the Reporting in the New York Times talks about what has been going on kind of behind the scenes, behind all of that. And it goes back to early February, when Trump was just coming into office, or he had already been kind of calling Trudeau the 51st, the governor, and Canada the 51st state. But so they spoke in February, February 3rd, specifically about tariffs, where Trump also laid out a long list of grievances about the U.S. canada relationship, specifically that U.S. banks have a hard time doing business in Canada, Canadian consumption taxes make American goods more expensive, and also brought up issues with the fact that Canada's dairy sector is protected. Basically, what that means is they regulate dairy heavily to prevent foreign competition. Sure, they're not the only country that does this. But the most alarming thing that he said was that he does not believe that our border treaty with Canada, which was established in 1908, is valid and that he wants to revise the boundary without saying specifically how. But according to the reporting that was, there was no other explanation. He said that he wants to revisit the sharing of the lakes and rivers, like the Great Lakes, which are regulated by a number of treaties. He had actually brought that up in the past, but it was obviously a renewed issue. And then later, his Commerce secretary, Howard Lutnick, before he was even confirmed, how to call with Canadian Finance Minister Dominic LeBlanc, where he said. Where Lutnick reiterated, saying that the treaties governing the relationship between Canada and the US Are relatively easy to abandon and that Trump is planning to do that. He also said that they want to review military cooperation between the two countries and eject Canada from the Five Eyes intelligence sharing group, which is a group of five English speaking countries. Canada, the U.S. britain, Australia and New Zealand. Little do they realize they have probably already started a four eyes group chat without us. Marco Rubio supposedly softened some of this later. Maybe like walked a little bit of it back. But there's also reporting that Rubio is kind of Secretary of State in name only.

[V. Speer]

Yeah, he's. He's got no power at all. Really?

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. So what are you thinking?

[V. Speer]

I. I think it's really concerning. I think, you know, Canada only got full independence in 1982, but this border has been negotiated with the United States since like, literally like the 1700s. I think it was like finalized in 1908. This has been a really long standing tradition that we've had anytime. There's even been like a little thing, Canada's been cool with us. Like when we got Alaska, there was like a little like, well, how much is Alaska and how much is Canada? They sided with us and gave us a significant portion. I think that this is ugly and unnecessary. I think it causes a lot of issues that don't need to be there. There is a lot of just regular American life that is dependent upon Canada and us being great friends. Everything from energy that comes into these states to auto parts. There's something I heard one time, like, a piston crosses the border four times before a car is made or something like that. It just. It feels unnecessary. It definitely feels like chaos and disabling for the sake of chaos and disabling. I think that all narcissists do this kind of shit where they isolate you from your friends. And we just have a narcissist president, and he's treating all the people of America like the abused partner. And I wish that there was something that we could do, because what I worry about happening here is, like I said, I go to Canada probably, like, 10 times a year. The American passport is gonna become less and less valuable. Our ability to travel freely between Mexico and Canada could be impacted if Trump keeps this bullshit up. And Canada's like, look, we don't trust you coming in here. Like, we don't trust Americans or we're going to do some kind of, like, block of tourism or make it hard for you to. To enjoy, you know, the freedom that we've had. And I just think it's. It's another thing he's done to hurt the country.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, you now need a visa to get into Mexico, so that's already starting.

[V. Speer]

I'm so worried. I have to go to Italy in April, and I'm like, good Christ, if they mess this up. Like. And I get. I'm afraid. I have started to be afraid to leave the country. Not just based on the fact that I'm visibly queer and I don't want to be harassed at the border, whichever way. But also, I mean, I've always had F on my documents just because I never trusted the government to give me an X and stick with it. So I always stuck with F. But I am just so worried every time this trip to Italy that's coming in April, I'm like, God, like, am I even going to make it? You know what I mean? Like, with how quickly we're deteriorating with our allies in other countries, sort of marching towards potential greater war in Russia, Ukraine area. Like, I don't know, you're giving me.

[Sammy Sage]

A little bit of PTSD from five years ago when I was supposed to get married on April 19, 2020 and supposed to go to Italy for my honeymoon after. And I was like, I don't know if I'm going to be able to go to Italy.

[V. Speer]

This is how I feel.

[Sammy Sage]

This is how it feels.

[V. Speer]

I know. Well, I'm supposed to. And then I'm supposed to go to Mexico for an event. And these are work trips. So, like, I have, like, you know, work handling. These aren't just, like, fun ski guy things. I'm supposed to go to Mexico at the end of May for a work trip. And I'm already, like, where they're trying to figure out, because I'm technically a speaker. Like, do. How did that work with the visa? Do I just say I'm there for pleasure? Like, would that be enough? Like, what's going on with Mexico? I don't know. I just feel very icky. I feel very scared.

[Sammy Sage]

I think you're right to feel icky and not to feel. Not to make you feel ickier, but are you. Do you know who Malcolm Nance is? So he is a former US Navy senior chief petty officer who specialized in naval cryptology. Now he's an intelligence and foreign policy analyst who I've been listening to for several years and found him to gotten a number of things right. So he put out a piece this weekend where he basically gave an assessment that he thinks the Trump administration seems to have already sort of decided that they will attempt to annex or invade both Canada and Greenland, but they just haven't necessarily decided or taken on the course of action yet. He's basing his assessment on what he calls intelligence indicators, which include reporting and public statements between Trump and Trudeau. He said that he's putting this on a timeline of six to 18 months, first with a period of political and economic destabilization in Canada, that the U.S. would carry out some of these destabilization efforts, including identifying and making contact with Canadians who are willing to betray their country, and specifically that they're going to target or are targeting young white men who they believe they can kind of turn into their own Canadian manosphere. I'm sure with the help of Elon Musk.

[V. Speer]

They do have Canadian maga. Remember those trucker rallies and stuff? There's. There's big Canadian MAGA in one of their MA. Canadian MAGA leaders is coming down to D.C. to do a speech pretty soon. Her name is Danielle. Gosh, I, I just read about it. I can't remember exactly, but they've got, like, one of the. The female members of, like, MAGA Canada coming down to do something in D.C. so I believe it could happen. I know that they're having their federal elections pretty soon too. They just got a new liberal leader.

[Sammy Sage]

But to that point about the Canadian maga, Musk tweeted at the end of February that Canada is not a real country. So there will be support for that. But what Malcolm Nance specifically predicts is that it could. There's a few ways that this could happen. It could involve an attempt by the US to occupy Canada akin to the Russians invasion of Ukraine, which would then likely devolve into a high intensity insurgency leading to thousands of deaths on both sides, while also collapsing the American economy and likely precipitating a civil war in the US because the US isn't gonna. I'm not in favor of this. And then the same goes sort of for Greenland, where it would be likely a path of public statements, making demands for a referendum amongst the people of Greenland to no longer be part of Denmark, which you can expect will be coupled with a social media campaign by Elon Musk. And I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think Greenland is important not just for the mineral resources which they could access via contracts and deals like they're doing with Ukraine, but located strategically for a potential invasion of Canada. And all of this being a broader campaign to kind of own the Northern hemisphere potentially. He did mention that this could make the United States a global pariah. But most importantly, because you said, what can we do? He thinks the best chance to marginalize the campaign and prevent the chain of events from actually going is that making this public so that people are aware of these potential efforts and therefore cognizant enough to thwart them, whether it's things on the Internet and so that these foreign leaders can react appropriately.

[V. Speer]

Well, here we are making it public. Please talk about it. I wonder if they're saying six to 18 months is what it would take for them to start doing invasions, because they still have to get the Pentagon straight. There's a lot of people who won't do illegal orders in the Pentagon and they're messing up the military right now, looking for loyalists, promoting loyalists, people we normally wouldn't have put into like chain of command positions. So maybe they're thinking it'll take them that long to get a loyal magafied army to be able to. That would even do this kind of stuff.

[Sammy Sage]

Part of his piece does actually address that because the military is. He talks about what the military is trained to actually the process by which they determine whether they're going to carry out a campaign like, is this necessary? Is this helpful? Is this more harmful than helpful? And he described that there needs to be that there is a project within the Pentagon in order to prime it to be in that place. Also to carry out sufficient economic destabilization and psychological destabilization so that people in Canada would be divided, that they would be sort of worn down to this idea. And time for Trump to make promises to these young men of Canada that being an American and also this opportunity for young men to, like, move to the US and become an influencer, be part of the manosphere. It's like a very helpful recruitment tool.

[V. Speer]

That makes sense. While you were talking, I looked up the Danielle woman, maga Danielle, she's actually the premier of Alberta, Danielle Smith. And she and Mr. Wonderful from Shark Tank, Kevin O'Leary, the Canadian who's apparently super MAGA, were working to try and get some love from Trump and were sort of part of this Canada MAGA movement until five days ago when they realized that, in fact, there are no special Canadian. No one will be special to him. You're all disposable. And so now they're both sort of slamming Trump for starting this tariff war. And we were all supposed to be cool, and we were supposed to be doing this together. He will never love you. Look at Marco Rubio, okay? Selling your soul at the altar of MAGA will never get you a bishop position. It will simply make you a usable character. He will suck the life out of you, and then he will throw you away when you're done. And that's exactly what he did to a lot of the people who are in his cabinet who are now railing against Elon and being like, I thought we were gonna get to be the boss. No, bitch, no, you weren't. No. No. You trusted the wrong man, and now you're just as much a victim as the rest of us. And same goes for this premiere in Alberta and Mr. Wonderful.

[Sammy Sage]

And so it's quite astounding to watch no one learn from other people's mistakes. No.

[V. Speer]

Because they always think it's not going to happen to them.

[Sammy Sage]

That's silly. At least just know that it is going to happen to you and you're allowing it.

[V. Speer]

Yeah, of course.

[Sammy Sage]

One little bright spot of hope. Canada is getting a new prime minister for a little bit. Mark Carney has won the race to lead the Liberal Party, and he seems like a real heavyweight, to be honest. He has never been in elected office. So for that reason, and because he's Not a member of Parliament. They are calling for federal election where he will be up against the leader of the Conservative Party, Pierre Polievra, who is a maga e Trump like figure. And so there will be an election where he will have to win again. But he seems to be quite well liked, a real heavyweight on economics. Lots of Canadians actually joined the Liberal party so they could vote for him. And yeah, he, so he's really, he steered the bank of Canada through the 2008 Global Financial Crisis and the bank of England through Brexit. He was chosen to do that because of how well he had performed in Canada. That they then, that they then made him the central banker in England. He's also very socially progressive and an evangelist for green investment despite having a very institutional background. He's a 59 year old white man, went to Harvard, Oxford, very wealthy from making money in finance. He's held a seat on a tons of boards on, you know, lots of economic councils. Again, because he doesn't have that seat in Parliament. He does need to be reelected. But he seems to be quite a well liked person, very smart, quick on his feet. So my sense is that they might have kind of hit the jackpot assuming that they elect him again. My sense is that they will because of his lack of alignment with Donald Trump. And yeah, I think they might have gotten their one chance.

[V. Speer]

Sounds like the Mark Cuban of Canada kind of right, like super wealthy business guy, liberal leaning, good on his feet. Yeah, I like him also. He's got a good campaign messaging. Here he is saying that the conservative guy's plan for Canada will leave Canada ready to be conquered. And I think that must be a fear of all Canadians. Whether you're left or right, you have national pride. If you're a nationalist, a Canadian nationalist, even if you're maga, you're not going to want to be conquered by America. That's not going to work.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. And you see that they're not happy about that possibility because, you know, because look at their reactions at hockey games. They're like using that.

[V. Speer]

Yeah, they're going hard. Absolutely.

[Sammy Sage]

Well, Canada, we were with you. We're with you.

[V. Speer]

We should, we should get like a. I don't know if you're Canadian and listening. Call us. Oh, that.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. Everyone forgets I'm Canadian. I am Canadian, so I'm with us.

[V. Speer]

You're so nice.

[Sammy Sage]

That's why I'm so nice. I would love to interview Mark Carney if we could.

[V. Speer]

Oh, that'd be fun.

[Sammy Sage]

Mark. I'm a citizen Mark, are you there?

[McAfee Representative]

I can say to my new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, hey, find a keto friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve. And it does without me lifting a finger so I can get in more.

[Sammy Sage]

Squats anywhere I can.

[V. Speer]

1, 2, 3.

[McAfee Representative]

Will that be cash or credit?

[V. Speer]

Credit. 4 Galaxy S25 Ultra the AI companion that does the heavy lifting. So you can do. You get [e-mail] compatible with select apps. Requires Google Gemini account. Results may vary based on input. Check responses for accuracy. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone Paying Big Wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint.

[Sammy Sage]

You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month.

[V. Speer]

Of course, if you enjoy overpaying.

[Sammy Sage]

No judgments.

[V. Speer]

But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for.

[McAfee Representative]

3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail].

[V. Speer]

Well, that brings us to our next topic. We are about to lose some virtual access, not in the political way, but in the healthcare space. Telemedicine for Medicare is ending on April 1, and a lot of folks are very concerned about this because without congressional action, key telehealth flexibilities that have been in place since the COVID 19 pandemic will expire, meaning that Medicare beneficiaries may no longer be able to receive reimbursed telehealth visits from their homes. Rural and facility restrictions will be reinstated. Critical programs like hospital at home could face disruption, and federally qualified health care centers and rural health clinics will lose their ability to serve as distant site providers for most telehealth services. So this is bad. And again, I think a short sighted decision from the Trump administration.

[Sammy Sage]

Isn't telehealth cheaper than everything?

[V. Speer]

Oh, it is. No, it's extremely successful. It's boosted like a ton of startup communities. And like, okay, for example, I had to do a sleep study and for me to do the sleep study in the facility here in Rochester, there was an eight month wait list. But I could. But they were like, oh, but you could do it telehealth. If you feel comfortable doing it at home, we'll send you the equipment you put it on. It's like two little stickers and a thing that monitors your heart. And then we could do it right now. And I was like, oh, that's great. And so I went from an eight month waiting time to literally having this done within four weeks, that kind of stuff will be affected. And that's obviously been hugely successful for healthcare and propped up a bunch of businesses. I've always felt like Donald Trump's demand that like shutting down telehealth, return to work all has to do with the fact that he's a real estate guy and he feels like, oh, all these real estate places, all these doctors offices are sitting empty, all these office buildings are sitting empty. If we make people go into the office, then those real estate developers properties would be valuable again.

[Sammy Sage]

That's true. I also think that they just actively like to encourage the insidification of America and the American experience that they don't care. Like they don't want people to be healthier. They don't see this as like their job is to make things better for America. Like think about even just the fees on Ticketmaster, like saving people hundreds of dollars at a time, that means something to people. It doesn't mean anything to him.

[V. Speer]

He also has this idea that if he could erase everything that Joe Biden did between 2020 and 2024, it's like he didn't actually lose the election because he is like erased any gains because even things like Joe Biden signing that, that order and getting done that credit cards could only charge you an 8% maximum interest. He like did an executive order to do away with that and now they're proposing like 10% maximum interest and it's like just some of the stuff, just leave it alone. But he won't, he won't leave. And we have on the substack, we talk about the way that he does executive orders and so many of them are fuck you, Biden orders, which is just like taking his exact ones and writing an undoing of it. Even if it was beneficial, even if it was, you know, Republican supported. But ending this hospital at home thing is very bad because there was. You are at more risk to get an infection or have an issue if you're in the hospital as opposed to recovering at home. And for a lot of people, you can recover at home and you get greater care. And now that could end, which would just be catastrophic. There's not enough beds, there's not enough ability.

[Sammy Sage]

Have you ever spent time in a hospital like it is so loud you can't sleep there? Constantly bells going off, noises, people coming in, people going out, you have a neighbor. It is so bad for your health. Like I really believe it is so bad for your psychological health to be In a hospital physically, unless you're in like a really nice situation, which is no one is like, you know, it's.

[V. Speer]

Rare, very rare that that happens. But I mean even there are so many procedures that you are better to recover at home and you know, you could do your telemedicine check ins and whatnot. So that could be ending. There are, but the big deal is the rural people that were already medically compromised not being able to do telehealth medicine check ins. And also like my sister's got kids, right? And she can use telemedicine sometimes to talk to the pediatrician. Yeah, she doesn't gotta drag my niece in there, you know, she don't feel good, she don't wanna put her in the car, drag her over there, sit there with other sick kids.

[Sammy Sage]

This is just for Medicare.

[V. Speer]

Well, this is the thing, what Medicare does is what the rest of the down funnel does. So they're saying if insurance won't cover Medicare, that insurance sort of has the ability to say nobody gets it. So this because the bulk of care is Medicare, oftentimes that makes it, makes it worth it for insurance to do it for like the non Medicare people. So they're saying they're going to get rid of it. If they actually get rid of it for Medicare you can expect that your insurance company will get rid of it for everybody else too. Because they don't want to pay for it. They don't want to do the reimbursements. Yeah, they don't want to have a two, two tiered system in that way where they're like, some people get it, some people don't. It'll just be nobody gets it. But that's what Jen was freaking out about because she's like, I don't want to dress. You know, doing the telemedicine for the pediatrician is like great. And you could bet if it's coming away from Medicare, it's coming away from Medicaid too. Not that she's not on Medicaid, but a lot of people are and they use that, you know, it's one of.

[Sammy Sage]

Those things that like just improves the American experience. And they don't care about improving the American experience because they're like, go get measles.

[V. Speer]

No, I mean, and in New York City I remember I was trying to get a therapist and it was so hard until I had telehealth because then I could like meet with somebody who was like based in Michigan, but she had the time to meet with me on the phone where you can't get in telehealth or otherwise in Manhattan. So, you know, and that was good for her business too, I'm sure. That woman in Michigan that I talked to like during COVID you know, to pick up extra clients. So it's just, it's crap. But the whole health thing is going down hard. He just revealed that we're getting. He wants Dan Weldon, a well known anti vax whack job from Florida, to run the CDC. Dan Weldon has called for the CDC to be completely eliminated in the past. And RFK Jr. Is offering $25,000 buyouts to anyone in the health department who wants to quit, which seems crazy also. And something like, I've never heard of all these buyouts. Like, this isn't what I want my tax dollars going to.

[Sammy Sage]

It's also definitely assuming they will pay you.

[V. Speer]

Which. Yeah.

[Sammy Sage]

Which I wouldn't believe that they will pay you. So follow your union guidance. If this is. If you are one of the approximately 80,000 federal workers that this impacts.

[V. Speer]

Yep. And all this is happening as there are massive measles cases in Texas. We talked about this on the substack with Dr. Rubin, who was saying he, as a, you know, he's in his mid-30s, a doctor, immunologist, allergist, and he's like, I don't even. I did not really learn a lot about measles because it was an eradicated disease. So we're having to go to doctors who are like in their 80s and being like, how do we deal with this? Because all the modern. This has been gone for 50 years. This has been no cases, no treatment, no, you get the vaccine, you're good to go. So they're having to go to these like retired doctors to figure out what to do about measles, which is extremely painful disease. Marjorie Taylor Greene is out there saying, well, back in the day, they used to have measles parties. No, the fuck they didn't.

[Sammy Sage]

She's referring to chickenpox parties, which is totally different. Totally different.

[V. Speer]

And now, yeah, now there's a measles case in Maryland, which is difficult because that means it's spreading. And we know that they're not reporting as many measles cases as there are. We're only hearing about the ones that make it to the news. And to me it's a, it's child abuse. If you are intentionally not vaccinating your child against polio, measles, tuberculosis, stuff like that, that is a child abuse thing. You know that that's a deadly Disease and a horrible thing, and it wipes.

[Sammy Sage]

Out your whole immune system if you get measles, basically. And we don't need to have this because we got rid of it.

[V. Speer]

Nope. Exactly. And now, on top of that, tuberculosis is back, too. They found a case of tuberculosis at a New Hampshire shelter. Tuberculosis is another terrible disease. There is no cure for it. The cure for tuberculosis was herd immunity through vaccines. Otherwise, you know, it affects your lungs and you'll. It's bad. Like, why are we doing this? Why are we doing this? And they're saying that there are new dangerous forms of tuberculosis for which there is no treatment could emerge as a result of USAID cuts. A doctor at the Stop TB Partnership said that she fears interruptions to people's treatment will allow the airborne bug to mutate into a new untreatable form. And that lack of diagnostic services, which have also been badly affected by the Trump administration's USAID cuts, will allow TB to spread more easily. So, like, what the fuck are we doing, guys?

[Sammy Sage]

This is one of those things. And I might make a video of it. I just want to, like, hone in on my exact points, is that when the Democrats protest something like cuts to usaid, they need to get better at articulating why that's bad. And one of the reasons why it's bad is because diseases don't have borders. I think we might have learned that a few years ago. And for that reason, when a virus or a new type of bacterial infection starts in a foreign country, for example, Ebola, sars, the avian flu, all these things that people have gotten freaked out about over the past decade, those things start in foreign countries. And the reason that we give money is because we want to prevent that from coming to us. And there's a reason that people die of malaria and Ebola and all these other things in these other countries, and we generally don't. And it's because we take steps to protect ourselves. So I don't really know why they can't articulate something like that.

[V. Speer]

I don't know. I just. It does feel like cruelty is the point across the board. And at what point does this end? And it's hard because people are like, oh, we need to do an impeachment. We need to do whatever. We don't have the numbers. Babies, we don't have the numbers. There are still people who are hard MAGA who believe in this. Not without control of the Senate to convict, it's not going to matter.

[Sammy Sage]

An insurrection where they physically had to be the ones running away. So if they are not going to do it for that, they're not stopping any of this. And we knew that. Like, it's like, makes me so mad that people are like, oh, are they? Maybe he's not going to get his cabinet nominees. Of course he was going to get all his cabinet nominees. The only reason he didn't get Matt Gates is because those people were his colleagues. So they hate him personally.

[V. Speer]

They knew it. Yeah. They saw it as an opportunity to not deal with him, too.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah. Like, it's not that they. Like, it's not that they have any sort of. They weren't standing on principle. They just hate Matt Gates.

[V. Speer]

Yep, exactly. It's why they got rid of Madison Cawthorn. They remember the congressman who said that the Republicans were having orgies. All of a sudden he was no longer elected. That was the end of him.

[Sammy Sage]

Right. Like, they think that he reflects badly on them. RFK Jr is no, no better than Matt Gates. Neither is Pete Hegseth. And yet you let those guys in.

[V. Speer]

I don't know. I think Marco Rubio, I don't. How long do you think he. He stays at this, you think? I don't think he'll quit because he's just that way. But, like, what a legacy to be saddled with. Rubio, like, stand up, do something you got. You're on. For being such a China hawk, for being so anti Russia. All of a sudden now he's like, well, I don't know, maybe the UK Ukrainians did start the. Well, I don't know. Like, we're going to cancel 83% of USAID. We're going to go to Saudi Arabia. Like, we're going to negotiate with terrorists.

[Sammy Sage]

And ugh, there will have to be an incident that would spark either. Just like a parting. But also, there's no reason it can't just continue like this where he's sort of like the figurehead and no one really knows what's actually going on and he just sits there and doesn't ever go out of line or step up. So he just keeps being the figurehead.

[V. Speer]

How about Trump saying to shut up about the price of eggs? Reposting a tweet from, like, Charlie Kirk or somebody that said, you need to.

[Sammy Sage]

Oh, Gavin Newsom's friend.

[V. Speer]

Fuck that guy. Huh? What we way to lose your. Your chance at the presidency. In one podcast episode, Gavin Newsom, he.

[Sammy Sage]

Could have even navigated it differently.

[V. Speer]

But there was no reason to have Charlie Kirk on. Look, no one on the left is saying, hey, we need to Find more middle ground with the far right.

[Sammy Sage]

He could have had a Republican. He could have had like Adam Kinzinger.

[V. Speer]

I'm sick of him too. I'm sick of all of them.

[Sammy Sage]

Adam Kinzinger actually has lots of good ideas that he tweets about what Democrats should do, but no one listens to him.

[V. Speer]

But let's, let's have on some people who are progressive thought leaders from the left. Gavin Newsom, use your platform to boost your own people. Him saying his 13 year old son is a huge fan of Charlie Kirk. I'm questioning your parenting. Here are the people I'm sick of hearing from. Beto O'Rourke, Stacey Abrams, Gavin Newsom, Nancy Pelosi, Adam Schiff, Adam Kinzinger, Liz Cheney. I'm sick of like, I feel like it's always the same kind of people that they're like, oh, like Jen Psaki the other day had Stacey Abrams on. I'm not saying that she's not a talented person. She absolutely is. She's incredible. We have heard from her. Interview the head of the Working Families Party. Interview some of the folks who are, you know, like at the John Faint place. Yeah. Sean Fane. Give me somebody else. Okay. Because it, it is feeling very much like circular. You know who did a great interview this weekend?

[Sammy Sage]

Who?

[V. Speer]

Eamon from the oh MSNBC show which I was on now because I was.

[Sammy Sage]

Honestly, I thought I slayed but send me the.

[V. Speer]

Yes. Who I was more excited was there was the editor in chief of Teen Vogue, Varsha. She interview her what she's doing with Teen Vogue and getting young people interested in politics and mixing it with sort of pop culture. Teen Vogue is doing some of the best political reporting out there right now.

[Sammy Sage]

Talking her.

[V. Speer]

We should talk to her. Jen Psaki. Talk to her. Gavin Newsom, like, let's give people like that a platform.

[Sammy Sage]

Yeah.

[V. Speer]

Our friend Tara Palmeri is coming on the show sometime soon.

[Sammy Sage]

So is Ali Vitale.

[V. Speer]

Ali Vitale, these are people who were in legacy journalism who have struck out on their own in some way. I mean, Ali Vitale still is msnbc, but she has a great social media account as well. Like, let's talk to some of these people. I'm sick of talking in circles to the same folks over and over and over and over.

[Sammy Sage]

I agree. I'm with you 100%. Just get some fresh blood.

[V. Speer]

Yeah. That said Elizabeth Warren, please come on the show. Yeah. I will never get sick of hearing from Elizabeth Warren. She is.

[Sammy Sage]

Because she knows her shit and that's never boring.

[V. Speer]

She stays young she stays young. You know who else I'm excited to hear from? New ski guy. We've got her on the show after the break. Senator Slotkin from Michigan. And she's going to break down why she chose those talking points, what she thinks Democratic leadership needs to be doing, where we're failing, why she succeeded as in a state like Michigan where people voted for her to be the senator and voted for Donald Trump. So we've got an interview with her next. Because guys, people know us.

[Sammy Sage]

Oh my God.

[V. Speer]

Yeah. We're beating CNN's numbers in Michigan. So yay for us. We'll have Senator Slotkin next. Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your car, automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report.

[Sammy Sage]

I'm ready for my life to change.

[V. Speer]

ABC Sundays, American Idol is all new. Give it your all. Good luck. Come out with a golden ticket.

[McAfee Representative]

Let's hear it.

[V. Speer]

This is immense world. I've never seen anything like it. And a new chapter begins. Carrie Underwood joins Lionel Richie, Luke Bryant and Ryan Seacrest on American Idol News Sundays, 8, 7 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu. I wore my blue for Michigan. I was like, okay, I want to make sure you feel comfortable coming into the space, recognizable figures, you know, and.

[McAfee Representative]

You'Ve got purple or blue behind you.

[V. Speer]

Oh, yes.

[McAfee Representative]

And then Lincoln staring right at me. Yeah. And so I feel, I feel very comfortable.

[V. Speer]

I demanded that this shop in Virginia give this to me.

[McAfee Representative]

So you know that, you know, we're about to move in. This is maybe not what you wanted to talk about, but we're moving into our permanent office on March 13th. And we received in the like lottery thing, J.D. vance's office.

[V. Speer]

Oh, you're getting new furniture, Senator. I hope so.

[McAfee Representative]

We're moving. They had moved all the furniture out. You know, new paint on the walls, new, new vibe. But you, you do kind of have this weird inheritance system on furniture from like your former senator, Debbie Stabenow. So there are these eagle lamps that are apparently just like yours. I honestly, maybe someone walked out of the US Senate with that one day and sold it to a guy in Virginia because it looks real similar to that, I'm telling you. And you know we get two. So, like. And the, like, staff were like, this is a big deal that you have two eagle lamps. I'm like, okay, I'm into the eagle lamps. Let's do it.

[V. Speer]

That is good lore for me. Yeah, it was like, literally, the shop, this, like, vintage shop was using it. And I was like, name your price. I must have it. And they were like, they like the show. So they hooked me up. But it was.

[McAfee Representative]

That's awesome.

[V. Speer]

It was a prized possession.

[McAfee Representative]

So the next time, one time when we talk, after we've moved in, I will do my shot with my eagle lamp in the background, and you can do your shot with your eagle lamp. And they'll think, perfect that everyone's getting an eagle lamp.

[V. Speer]

And then when you're done being a senator, we'll start a podcast together. We'll call it the Eagle's Nest, and we'll just, like, comment on everything from our purchase. It'll be perfect.

[Sammy Sage]

Great.

[V. Speer]

But thanks for being here today. This is a pretty big get for me, I gotta say. It's not often that you get the senator who did the response. Response to the joint session. So I really appreciate y'all.

[McAfee Representative]

Well, do you want to know. Do you want to know why we came on? Because. So I did your show when we did that all nighter, right, that Votorama all nighter. And I'd never done your show before, and I did it and we went in and, you know, 10 minutes or whatever it was, and then I stayed up all night. And then I really had to get going at 11am the next day, kind of without sleeping, because I had to get myself to almost the furthest part of Michigan, Iron Mountain, Michigan, for a ski jumping competition in our Upper Peninsula. So I had to fly through Minneapolis to get up there. You know, I just pulled the all nighter. We had a big ski jump competition, and for us, it's like a lot of tailgating, a lot of. And I'm at the tailgate very far away from the flagpole of Washington, D.C. and they're like, we saw you on the podcast. Like, they had seen me. And you got name checked.

[V. Speer]

Ooh.

[McAfee Representative]

In the upper peninsula of Michigan.

[V. Speer]

Those are my people. They're everywhere.

[McAfee Representative]

And so I was like, look at that. You know, they probably didn't see my CNN hit or whatever I did that day also. And so I was like, proof is in the pudding. And so we wanted to come back on.

[V. Speer]

I appreciate that so much. And shout out to the furthest points of Michigan. I feel you. I love you, Iron Mountain. Yeah. I think it's because they know I can endure the cold. As a Rochester person, we're on the same little level here, so it's working out well. I'm glad that you're here. I watched your response. I don't know how you were as composed as you were, because after that night, I mean, I just felt. I felt angry, I felt exhausted. I was, like, laying on the floor, which isn't uncommon for me. But this wasn't a fun laying on the floor. This was like a God. And then I watched you, and I have to say, I appreciated that you were able to, like, really hold it together. I think a lot of folks wanted to see, like, fire and brimstone, but where I was, I think it really met the moment. How did you prepare for that? What made you, like, choose that's how you were going to handle it?

[McAfee Representative]

Well, first of all, it was a surprise that I was asked to do it. Right. I had, you know, six days, seven days ahead. Not even Senator Schumer asked me to do it. And he called me into his office. I didn't know why he wanted to meet. And I'm like, I'm in trouble. Yeah, it's a huge honor. But it's also a bit of a cursed speech. I mean, the number of people who have done that speech and then become a Saturday Night Live skit, like, immediately Saturday afterwards is high. And so I decamped to my farm. I live on my family farm in Michigan, and I had a few close advisors around me. My brother did me a huge favor and played like house manager so I didn't have to cook for everybody. I love that, you know, like, so I could focus on the speech and not cook, you know, three squares a day for everyone. And we just were on my back porch, you know, the farm is covered in snow. It's still, you know, very cold in Michigan. And we just worked on that speech and, you know, we purposely found a place. There's lots of communities in Michigan that Trump won and I won. We wanted to make that point right? And so we found the place and. But it was a lot of, like, sitting around in jeans and, you know, eating three squares and talking about speech for three straight days.

[V. Speer]

I love that your brother was there to cook for you. That is the best. You got to have that family support. You know, some of the stuff that you talked about that I found particularly interesting is that, you know, the Democrat. This is not going to surprise you. A lot of people complain the Democrats don't have, like, Easily repeatable messaging. I thought that you came out with three things that I was like, boom, that's it. We could just keep saying that stuff. And that makes sense. The middle class is the engine of the country. Strong Social Security protects us from harm. And democracy, though messy, is worth it. Like, can you tell me a little bit about, like, how of all the things you could have said, you kind of brought it down to like, hey, we are people and made that happen.

[McAfee Representative]

Well, look, I mean, you're writing the speech before you hear from President Trump, but it's not his first State of the Union, so we sort of knew what it looked like. I've been in the chamber when he's delivered his previous dates of the Union, and like, I know what it's like. It's just sort of like a rally being assaulted. Yeah, it's like a rally, you know, and so we knew we weren't going to be able to rebut everything that he said. And so to me, it's just always trying to find a core set of things that, like, the vast majority of Americans, Democrats and Republicans, agree with and those things, you know, middle class is the engine of America. Like, there's just not that many people in the country who are like, I am angry about that statement, you know, and, or that our democracy is, is worth investing in and saving. Like, that's, again, even if people voted for Donald Trump, like, the average person still feels that we have a special form of government that we should protect. And then, you know, for me, also national security. Like, we have nothing if we don't have our safety and our security. But I think even more fundamental to, you know, the issues you mentioned was this idea that whether we like it or not, the message of the election was that things aren't working for people and they want it to change. And I think that's not just a Republican feeling. Right. You know, the young folks who work for me, like, they have a totally different outlook than the one I was raised on, which is like, of course you're going to do better than your parents. And like, of course you're going to be able to buy a home. Of course you're going to be able to do all these things. And like, I, you know, Talking to my 22 year olds, like, they're just like in a different head space. And we need to answer that. Like, and so I, I wanted to say, like, look, the message was change, but there's responsible change and reckless change. And like, I'm on Team Responsible. Like, you want to Cut fat, Okay? I saw fat with my own eyes in the federal government. Just do it so you don't make us less safe and, like, torch the things we need.

[V. Speer]

Yeah. We don't do it by cutting 70,000 jobs at the VA. We don't do it by cutting the USAID completely and abandoning American citizens and removing Ebola funding and stuff. The thing that you said. Of all the stuff you said, that really stuck with me, that I, like, opened my door and shouted it to my wife, was when you said, if you work in an auto plant, you ought to be able to afford the car that you made. And as a person who used to be in the culinary industry, we used to joke, okay, I can now order off the menu, but I'd have to work, like, two hours before I could afford to order off the menu. And that's just. And that was years ago, you know, and that's still the issue now. People count how many hours they're working to see if they could afford that basic thing that they're serving. That's so unfair. What sort of, like, about you helped you to come to that place?

[McAfee Representative]

Well, you know, I think Michigan, like, that's our thing. Like, when I said it in the speech, like, we believe we invented the middle class, you know, with the auto industry, with people who came to our state, you know, again, now, many, many years ago. But they came because they wanted a secure job where they could, like, you know, have a life and their kids could do better than them. And so it's, like, very foundational to Michiganders. And in Michigan, like, we make things, we grow things. We still have a huge part of our economy that, like, work with our hands. And so we are proud of that. We are proud of our mastery of, you know, manufacturing. And so it's just fundamental to us. And I knew that my whole approach to the speech was, like, I don't know every corner of the world. I don't. Or of our country. But I know Michigan, and Michigan's usually a pretty good bellwether for where the average person in the country is. So I spoke to my state and just expanded the aperture. But being able to work 40 hours a week at one job with good benefits so that you don't, like, have to piece together 12 different jobs. And, like, that's who we are as a state, and that's become harder, not.

[V. Speer]

Easier, and we should be able to do it, because the next thing you said was, we need a tax system that works for people who don't make a billion dollars. And I was like, that's just like a better way of saying it. Like, it just like, stuck out to me as, like, obviously, that makes sense. There's so much focus on. He wants to give tax breaks to his billionaire buddies. The billionaires. The billionaires. We see them all in the Cabinet. We see them all behind him constantly. We see them in Doge and all of this different stuff. What would a tax system that works for the average person who doesn't make a billion dollars look like?

[McAfee Representative]

Well, look, I mean, I think it just. It's not radical. It's just like, pay your fair share. Yeah, like, pay your fair share. And I think the thing that is coming to a Theater and R us is this tax proposal from the Republicans. And just to put it in very, very clear terms, people who make, let's say, $150,000 a year or less, they'll get some money back. A couple hundreds of dollars, which is. It's not nothing. It's meaningful. Sure, right. But if you make. I think it's. If you make $3 million a year, you will get $300,000 back from this system.

[V. Speer]

Yeah.

[McAfee Representative]

And so what I think they're doing is, like, throwing you. Throwing people enough so that they feel like, oh, I'm getting something, but it's like, look who's getting it. All right? And I. So I just. And that's. That's hard to say to people like that. They're distracting you with kind of couple hundred bucks. A couple hundred bucks, which, again, it's good. But, man, the guys who make the most money are getting massive dividends. So I just. That, to me, is out of whack. That's a system. Out of whack. And so especially if, you know, their salesmanship is that, like, we're for the working man.

[Dr. Naomi Bernstein]

Come on.

[McAfee Representative]

B.S. like, just. This is such B.S.

[V. Speer]

Especially now with how many jobs they've gotten rid of. I mean, typically, the president wants to brag about how many jobs they make, and he's out here like, we fired 100,000 people. We fired 6,000 people. Folks couldn't believe. They're like, how could he fire 70,000 people? And go back to 2019 staffing at the VA? Did Joe Biden really create 70,000 jobs in the VA? I'm like, yeah, babies. The PACT act, there was a lot of really great legislation that folks, you know, it wasn't properly communicated to people who benefited from it. And that's like, part a media problem, part like, Republicans in those districts will take credit for things, but not Give the credit to who it's due to.

[McAfee Representative]

And Democrats and Democrats also. I mean, let's just be honest. There's no, you know, it's like admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery. We. We have a messaging issue.

[V. Speer]

Yeah.

[McAfee Representative]

Hello. Like, that's what to say.

[V. Speer]

I mean, you just got on here, but I don't know if you saw yet. There's 10 Democrats who voted with Republicans to censure Al Green. And a lot of people are very upset about this because they wanted what Al Green did, where he disrupted the lie that he has a mandate and, you know, did a protest. And whether that was decorum or the right thing to do, or are we supposed to be the bigger person or not? There's a lot of folks out there who are like, I want to see the Democrats stick together. I want to see them have walked out behind Al Green when he started to lie. I wonder if we will get to that point or if there's still this idea of trying to, like, play the middle. This is a big thing for you because, like you say, people voted for Trump and they voted for you. There's obviously something to that combined ticket that, that we're missing. What do you think is, like, the secret sauce there?

[McAfee Representative]

I mean, I think that you got to appeal to things that are more universal than any one party's platform.

[V. Speer]

Sure.

[McAfee Representative]

And. And I think that you also have to be ruthless in prioritizing what you care about. I think often the Democrats are for everything.

[V. Speer]

Yeah.

[McAfee Representative]

Like. Like we have a million. And that's like, part of our appeal.

[Sammy Sage]

Right.

[McAfee Representative]

Is we're a big tent.

[V. Speer]

We're an empathetic group.

[McAfee Representative]

Everyone's welcome, you know, like, and that's part of our strength. But it then makes it really hard to understand what our priorities are. And so in Michigan in this last election, you know, people felt like, I don't know, you know, what the Democrats, Big D are, are really about. And like, that guy Trump is saying he's going to lower my pocket costs. Like my. And let's put aside that it's completely false and he's not bringing down their costs. In fact, they're going up. He told them that that's what he's. His religious focus on. And we didn't have a similar tight discipline message. And I think, look, I don't think I hide this. Like, there's winning arguments, especially online, and then there's winning elections. And I'm like, here to win elections.

[V. Speer]

Yeah. That's what we have to do. Right.

[McAfee Representative]

And So I think. But there's no reason for us to pretend like everything's great around Democratic messaging and that we're a well oiled machine, we're on our heels and it's our responsibility to get our crap together. And you know, all I could do with the platform that I was offered is say like, this is what I think we should be doing. This is what I think we should be focusing on ruthlessly. Economic security, national security, democracy, and also that no citizen is off the hook and thinking that someone else should fix it for them.

[V. Speer]

If I could say another thing I like about you. I like that you tend to be able to look at like a big picture with a lot of complicated, horrible, terrible, awful things and then be like, okay, listen, here's what I'm saying. The man is walking us into a recession. Yeah, let's put everything else aside. What are we gonna do to not go so far down the recession path? Can you talk about how that made it into your speech and why you thought that was important?

[McAfee Representative]

Well, math, the math, you can't, you know, you can't, like prices are going up on all the big things. And you know, his plans, you know, the whole thing he's trying to do is find trillions of dollars in the couch cushions, cut bunch of programs, cut the government, do all this stuff so that he can give big dividends, tax dividends to the wealthiest people. That's the game here. Like, if you're wondering, like what is all this stuff for? What is Doge for? Like, that's the central crux of what he's trying to do. And he's going to make you pay in every part of your life. Prices are going up. Tariffs especially like sloppy tariffs like this are going to hit my state and a lot of others very badly, very badly. Right? His plans, the math on his plans does not work without coming after your health care. So the aca, Medicaid. And while he protests and he knows it's like politically bad to be like, I'm going to cut your Medicare, Social Security, VA benefits. You know, Doge is over there. Elon's like, it's a Ponzi scheme. Social Security is big, big Ponzi scheme. So they're going to make you pay in all the categories of your life, every place where you pay bills so that they can give it away to other people. And I think if you do the math on all of that, not good things, right? So I just think, I know there's some people out there who think that the best Plan should be like, let Trump screw up the country so bad that people feel pain, and then he pays a price. Maybe that's an approach. I'm a public servant. Like, to watch your own people hurt and do nothing about it and just wait, I think is malpractice.

[V. Speer]

I agree. I mean, and I know. I think we're about the same age when they started talking about taking away Social Security and calling it a Ponzi scheme. I mean, I'm looking at, like, my sister and her kids, and she's like, okay, I gotta, you know, figure out how I take care of my kids. And then we're like, I don't know if I'd be able to swing mommy's mortgage if she were to lose that income. Like, how am I gonna make that up? And then you start talking to a lot of your friends. And Kamala Harris called this the sandwich generation. The people who are like, you know, you're trying to take care of kids and take care of your aging parents or take care of other dependents, and there's just not enough to go around. And this idea that, like, somehow someone else or families will pick up the slack. It's like, we're already working as a village. There's no way that any of us could pick up our boomer parents. Medical expenses if they. If they, you know, don't keep those negotiated Medicare prices, could pick up a mortgage or even part of a mortgage to try and keep our parents in our houses if they end up cutting their Social Security. There's a lot of people that are scared out there right now. Is there anything that you can say that kind of, like, gives them hope that we are going to be able to fight back some of this?

[McAfee Representative]

So I just, you know, I'm an analyst by training, and so I think past behavior is the best indicator of future behavior. And what we have seen in the short time that Trump has been in office is that he'll make a decision if it's really unpopular and breaks through in a broad way. Not just the base on Twitter, but in a broad way. People don't like it, he reverses it, right? So most recently, yesterday, today, tariffs, right? He was like, huh? You know, seems like tariffs would be bad for the autos. So now I'm going to exempt them from this. But before that, it was the total freeze on federal funding. Red states, blue states, purple states. Everyone just, like, lost their minds and were like, hey, so here are the things that are going to be lost. Immediately there was such an uproar that and so many calls came into all of our offices. Democrats and Republicans broke the system.

[V. Speer]

It, like, shut down 16,000aminute or something.

[McAfee Representative]

Yeah, it was, like, insane. He reversed it in less than 48 hours. And yes, there was a court case that came, you know, and also said, you have to stop this. But that teaches me that when there's a broad response, the man's a populist. So if there's a broad response or if one of his friends complains, then he reverses himself. So I think that's. This is why I want to be ruthless with our priorities, because we can't stop everything. I would love it if we could. We can't stop everything but the things that are core to us, we have. And so, like, va, right? Like screwing over the 911 generation that I served with in Iraq and their benefits, bad. And that's where you start getting people across the political spectrum speaking up at town halls and taking it, you know, calling and saying, hey, look, like, I'm. I'm a Republican, but you can't take away my access to care at the va. He reverses himself. So that's. I was trying to say that at the end of my speech, like, we have agency here, but it has to be on issues that have broad appeal, not niche appeal. Appeal.

[V. Speer]

Totally. I know every little win leads to the next win, too, but this, but. And that's why I think we're so anchored. I'm so anchored in on the show, especially about what he's doing with the military, because even renaming bases has caused, like, a lot of. A lot of people don't like that. Like, to rename Fort Moore and disgrace the legacy of Lieutenant General Hal Moore and Julia Moore is like, come on, Pete, this is why we didn't want you, because you don't. You don't understand the chain of command or the history or tradition of what really people care about. You just want to, like, try and do these, like, meme things all the time.

[McAfee Representative]

And I also think, first of all, it's a distraction technique. Right. If you're focused on those kind of culture war issues, you're not remembering that you're actually paying more for groceries, more for energy, more for more for more for more. Right. So it's a tactic. And then secondly, most people, at least in my state, there's a base of people who are like, die hard Trump supporters, and they're gonna support everything that he does. But to win that swing voter, that middle that decides elections in swing states, those voters elected him to lower Costs, feeling pain. And so they're like, what are you doing, buddy? Like, what is this whole thing? Like, so I, you know, what I didn't, I had in an earlier version of the speech is like, look, you may not know the ins and outs of the federal budget, very few people in the world do, but you know, your own budget. Keep book on this man, keep book on him. Like just, you know, how much you spend on groceries, on gas, on your health insurance, and just keep it, keep tabs. I went to the grocery store the day he was sworn in at Holly Foods and I said, what is the price of all the key things that I'm buying? The milk, the eggs, the bread, and I'm just going to keep books.

[V. Speer]

Yeah, you gotta have those points. I mean, for me, it was a picture of my grocery store out here that didn't have eggs because they were like, look, they're 14 bucks and none of you guys are gonna buy $14 eggs. So we're not even bringing them in because there's no way to do it. I mean, just nuts. So banana stuff. The last thing I want to ask you about, if you got just a couple more minutes, because you are an analyst, you work with the CIA, very smart, understand national security, and you have like a protectiveness about you. That's why I like talking to you. You feel safe in the little moment when you're here with Senator Slotkin, Elon Musk, the Doge stuff he said, are you comfortable with him using his own computer server to go through your bank accounts, health history oversight with his 20 year old, you know, minions? We need to cut waste, but change doesn't need to be chaotic. What can we do about Doge? Is there any. What do we do? Yeah, well, look like it.

[McAfee Representative]

No. And the reason why I led with your privacy issues, right, that he's got your tax information, your Medicare, health information, bank accounts, is because again, the average American's like, what now? Like, what are you doing?

[V. Speer]

Y'all just wanted to ban TikTok and now we are going to let this guy into the Doge?

[McAfee Representative]

Like, right? And so I think that is something that people are like, no bueno, that is not good. But I think again, this is where the seams that we can exploit are like this weird relationship between Musk and Trump, right? I mean, I don't think most people from the outside, I don't understand, like, why would a president do this? What is the value of sort of looking weak and subservient and like you're being led around by your nose. By this guy who I'm sure does amazing things with his companies, but is kind of like the guy at the party you don't want to talk to.

[Sammy Sage]

Like, he's kind of weird.

[McAfee Representative]

He's weird.

[V. Speer]

Yeah.

[McAfee Representative]

And so. And people get that, like, human beings have good eq. They can feel that. And so I. I don't totally understand it, but exploiting the seam between them, I think is good. And. And I think it's like it's his decisions. If you see. If you see the feedback loop that's happening right now with some of my Republicans, Republican colleagues, it's like, Doge will do something really like, based on feeding algorithms into an AI, you know, soft piece of software. They'll cut a bunch of people. It'll, like, let's say at the va, it'll hurt a bunch of veterans. A bunch of folks often in Republican places will call into the Republican legislators and be like, what are you cutting from my VA hospital? Those guys call the White House and they're like, you're killing me here, guys. Like, you're doing that stuff. And then it. Often we've seen things change or be suspended. Right. Action happens. And so that feedback loop of like, Doge is bad. Go complain to your Republican elected. They go complain to the White House. That's a good loop. To Greece.

[V. Speer]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I know so many people because I did. I did a tour of like, the mid the Midwest because they were like, gay people never come to the Midwest, and there's so many gay people there. And we would do, like, meetings and talk about what was going on during the campaign. And I know that some of the stuff that they cut when it comes to, like, cancer research and development, health things, that stuff's based in St. Louis. That stuff's based in Des Moines. Like, that stuff is not. It's not some coastal elite thing. I mean, sure, Johns Hopkins does some great stuff and we love him for it, but it happens everywhere. And I think that they just didn't think it would happen to them or that they somehow weren't included in the things that would be seen as, like, a target of Trump. There's a lot of betrayal people are feeling out there right now, and I think that's good to sort of, like, recognize, give people a soft place to land. Like, yeah, he lied to you, and that's okay. And, you know, if you want to change your mind on how you support somebody who lies to you, then there's plenty of room to leave that, you know, abusive relationship in many ways. Is there anything that you didn't get to say during your rebuttal that you wish you could say that you want to share with us? Now?

[McAfee Representative]

It's important to remember that Trump can only do these things if, like, a huge group of Republican lawmakers sit on their hands and do nothing. Right? Like, if he was just alone and all the rest of the Republicans were like, we don't really agree with this, he'd be done, you know, and changing his behavior immediately. It's the acquiescence. It's their being complicit in this. And I got a lot of texts from Republican colleagues who have retired from the House, the Senate, who, you know, saying, that was good speech. And, like, they're not there because they didn't want to be complicit, because they didn't want to be part of the story in history that looks back on this time and says they could have stopped these really hurtful things that he did and they didn't. That. That is a center of gravity that we need to focus on. Right at the end of my speech, I was like, look, here are three things you can do. People are sitting at home wondering, like, how do I help? I sort of had more pointed versions that were like, look, if these guys turn, even if they don't turn publicly, but at first they turn privately, that's how we start to get out of this hole. And, you know, Democrats are important, but please don't leave our Republican colleagues blameless. Like, a lot of times, there's a lot of, like, Democrats are at fault for everything. And we have a lot of issues. Okay, we have a lot of issues. But the Republicans being complicit is so central to the storyline going on right now, and we got to find ways to continue to make them feel that heat.

[V. Speer]

I hope so. I'm hopeful. Things like him saying he's going to put hotels up in Gaza or stopping intelligence to Ukraine, you know, we don't have time to get into all of that today. But, like, I'm hopeful that there's some things that are core values to Americans, like that we are the protector of the world, that we are supposed to be the good guy. When you hear an American voice, it's supposed to be a good thing in a war zone, not something that's telling you, hey, we're leaving you behind. And so I know that there's a lot of folks who share that value with me, and we just have to keep, keep pushing. I appreciate you being here so much and taking all this time with us. Come back anytime and, you know, I'll see you in Michigan in the summer when the weather's better. Please, there's such good stuff to do in Michigan when the weather is better. People are like, I go to Florida on a beach vacation. I'm like, no, no, no. You need to go to Michigan.

[McAfee Representative]

We have more coastline than Florida and it's nicer and our water is cleaner. It is fresh free.

[V. Speer]

Fresh free. Shark free. Yeah. Cleaned up, invested in recreational.

[McAfee Representative]

And we're a place that still just believes in this country and so come and visit.

[V. Speer]

Absolutely. You could get on a boat and it doesn't have to be your Republican dad friend. Liberals with boats visit Michigan liberals with.

[McAfee Representative]

Boats and trucks and all that. And snowmobiles.

[V. Speer]

Hell, yeah. Yeah. All right. Great to talk with you. Thank you. You, Senator, have a good one.

[McAfee Representative]

Bye now.

[Sammy Sage]

I love that. And I love that you got to speak to her. I'm sorry. I had a conflict right after her response.

[V. Speer]

Yeah, she did great. And you know what else I liked about it was they had space for her to speak. It was well lit, the audio was good, the video was good. I don't know. I think the Senate Dems are maybe up in their digital game. They're being prepared now.

[Sammy Sage]

I think the format could have been. I think the setup, to be honest, could have been better, could have been a little more creative. But she, look, she 100% cleared the bar that she needed to clear. She did a good job. Her messaging was interesting. She gets it.

[V. Speer]

She didn't end up as a Saturday Night Live spoof. That was her goal also.

[Sammy Sage]

No, literally, that's actually pretty key because those are just so prime to be mocked.

[V. Speer]

I know. Like the Katie Britt one. So good job. Senator Slotkin, thanks for coming on. You're welcome back anytime, and we'll see you on the beaches of Michigan.

[Sammy Sage]

We should mention that Alyssa Slotkin is possibly going to be on the front lines of the war with Canada as a Michigan senator.

[V. Speer]

Oh, yeah. Ooh. Until next time, I'm V. Speer.

[Sammy Sage]

I'm Sammy Sage, and this is American Fever Dream.