What Vance Got Wrong At The Munich Security Conference

Summary

American Fever Dream: What Vance Got Wrong At The Munich Security Conference

Hosts: Bea Spier & Sammy Sage
Release Date: February 18, 2025

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In this poignant episode of American Fever Dream, presented by Betches Media, hosts Bea Spier and Sammy Sage delve deep into the ramifications of J.D. Vance’s controversial remarks at the recent Munich Security Conference. The episode navigates through the intricate layers of international relations, domestic policy failures, and the emerging sense of national grief in America’s current political climate.

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1. Setting the Stage: Munich Security Conference Overview

The episode begins with a comprehensive overview of the Munich Security Conference, a pivotal event that has been held annually since 1963 to foster global peace and cooperation. This year’s focus was prominently on the ongoing illegal Russian aggression against Ukraine, Middle Eastern conflicts, transatlantic relations, and strengthening NATO amid global challenges.

Sammy Sage [10:58]:
"This year's event was focused on peace efforts surrounding the illegal Russian war of aggression against Ukraine and the situation in the Middle East, as well as on transatlantic relations..."

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2. J.D. Vance’s Controversial Speech: A Diplomatic Misstep

J.D. Vance took the stage during an innovative segment dubbed “Diplomatic Speed Dating,” where world leaders present their cases within a tight timeframe. Instead of adopting a listening posture typical of US diplomats, Vance delivered a scathing critique of the conference organizers and European domestic policies.

Bea Spier [12:18]:
"J.D. Vance gets up there and criticizes the organizers of the Munich Security Conference for banning lawmakers representing populist parties..."

Vance accused European nations of abandoning their shared values with the United States, specifically targeting Germany’s efforts to curb far-right nationalist movements like the AfD party. His remarks were met with palpable offense and confusion among European delegates, highlighting a stark shift in US-Europe relations.

Sammy Sage [14:37]:
"J.D. Vance is like, Germany is the worst because they're trying to tamp down the rise of Nazi ideology again in their country."

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3. Geopolitical Ramifications: The US-Europe Rift

Vance’s speech signaled a significant deterioration in US-European alliances. The hosts draw parallels to personal relationship breakups, describing the US as a “narcissistic ex” being left by Europe. This metaphor underscores the loss of diplomatic warmth and the ensuing challenges in maintaining strategic military bases across Europe and beyond.

Bea Spier [16:42]:
"We are cooked in that particular way. I did a video this past weekend talking about how America has lost deference..."

The discussion extends to the Pentagon’s strategies and the potential loss of crucial military bases in Germany, which are vital for countering Russian and Chinese influences. The hosts emphasize the long-term strategic disadvantages the US might face due to this diplomatic fallout.

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4. Domestic Discontent: USDA Funding Cuts and Farmer Protests

Transitioning to internal issues, the episode highlights the severe impact of USDA funding cuts initiated by the administration. Farmers across the nation have staged sit-ins to protest the halted reimbursements essential for maintaining their operations. The hosts lament the administration’s disregard for agricultural stability and the ensuing humanitarian crisis.

Sammy Sage [51:29]:
"They are out of the cash. So now how are they going to pay labor to pick the crop? How are they going to pay for labor to harvest?"

The discussion touches upon the broader economic implications, including the potential acquisition of farmlands by billionaires and the subsequent loss of family farms. The emotional toll on farmers, including increased suicide rates, is portrayed as a direct consequence of these policies.

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5. The Path to American Authoritarianism: Insights from Foreign Affairs

Bea introduces an analysis of the Foreign Affairs article titled "The Path to American Authoritarianism" by Stephen Levitsky and Lucan Way. The authors argue that America’s unique federal structure may offer some resistance against severe authoritarian shifts, despite growing threats to democratic ideals.

Sammy Sage [43:01]:
"They think that federalism will make it slightly harder to enforce some of the federal government's biggest overreaches."

The hosts discuss the concept of competitive authoritarianism, where superficial democratic processes continue, but the playing field becomes increasingly uneven. They highlight the importance of state rights as a potential bulwark against federal overreach, although they express skepticism about its effectiveness in the current political climate.

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6. Cultural and Diplomatic Fallout: Global Perceptions of America

The episode further explores how America’s domestic turmoil is affecting its global image. Policies perceived as hostile, such as visa restrictions and aggressive rhetoric, have led to strained relationships with allies and diminished soft power. Examples include Mexico contemplating visa requirements for Americans and Canada preparing to defend its northern border more rigorously.

Bea Spier [34:15]:
"Mexico is kind of kicking around the idea of maybe making Americans apply for a visa because Mexicans have to apply for a visa to come to the United States."

The hosts underscore the irony of America’s loss of diplomatic courtesies, juxtaposed against its historically dominant cultural and economic influence worldwide. This erosion of goodwill is portrayed as a significant factor in the weakening of US leadership on the global stage.

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7. Conclusion: National Grief and the Need for Community Resilience

As the episode draws to a close, Bea and Sammy reflect on the collective sense of grief permeating the nation. They emphasize the importance of community support and staying informed to navigate the tumultuous political landscape. The hosts call for active engagement and solidarity to rebuild societal structures weakened by current administrative policies.

Sammy Sage [56:12]:
"We are here to prepare you, not scare you. That's been my motto for this year."

Bea and Sammy urge listeners to participate in community initiatives, support affected farmers, and advocate for policies that reinforce democratic values. They highlight the necessity of resilience and collective action in overcoming the challenges posed by both domestic and international crises.

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Notable Quotes

• Bea Spier [12:18]:
  "J.D. Vance gets up there and criticizes the organizers of the Munich Security Conference for banning lawmakers representing populist parties..."

• Sammy Sage [14:37]:
  "J.D. Vance is like, Germany is the worst because they're trying to tamp down the rise of Nazi ideology again in their country."

• Bea Spier [16:42]:
  "We are cooked in that particular way. I did a video this past weekend talking about how America has lost deference..."

• Sammy Sage [51:29]:
  "They are out of the cash. So now how are they going to pay labor to pick the crop? How are they going to pay for labor to harvest?"

• Bea Spier [43:01]:
  "They think that federalism will make it slightly harder to enforce some of the federal government's biggest overreaches."

• Bea Spier [34:15]:
  "Mexico is kind of kicking around the idea of maybe making Americans apply for a visa because Mexicans have to apply for a visa to come to the United States."

• Sammy Sage [56:12]:
  "We are here to prepare you, not scare you. That's been my motto for this year."

---

American Fever Dream continues to serve as a crucial platform for dissecting the complexities of America’s political and social dynamics. By providing insightful analysis and fostering a sense of community, Bea Spier and Sammy Sage aim to empower listeners to engage thoughtfully with the evolving national narrative.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Rise and shine, fever dreamers. Look alive, my friends. I'm Bea Spier.

[A]

And I'm Sammy Sage.

[B]

And this is American Fever Dream, presented by Betches News, where we explore the.

[A]

Absurdities and oddities of our uniquely American experience. And it gets weirder by the week.

[B]

It sure is. This is our snow day episode because I did not check the weather and it snowed like insane crazy here in Rochester. So I am stuck in my house with my YouTube mics and my, my like upstairs living room background.

[A]

Well, it's beautiful. Honestly, it's working. You sound and look amazing to me and I'm thrilled to see you. And I, it's been. I haven't seen you since last week because we recorded last week's early and it has really been. I've been missing you. It's been.

[B]

I've been missing you. But I have been so proud of you, Sammy, because Sammy is getting better at skiing and I saw you out there on the slopes on the Instagra thing, swishing away. I was like, look at her. Athletic. Okay.

[A]

Thank you. It is, you know, it's been a long road. As an adult skier, you know, a late in life skier, it's so hard for me.

[B]

So at least you're trying, at least you're trying something new. I've tried a lot of athletic things. I'm not good at them.

[A]

That's the thing is like, there are so few like physical activities that I genuinely feel great when I'm doing them. And to the point where I'm like off my phone for more than an hour. Like, I don't go on my phone for the whole time because it's annoying to get it out when like your gloves are on and you're cold and all that shit. And it's like one of the few things that can actually like feel really good for me. That's natural and that's, you know, I do suppose you have very expensive. And it's not, it's a hassle so it's not quite natural, but it's like one of those physical activities that actually gets me out of my head, which I'm so need badly.

[B]

Yes, yes. And you looked great. You were swishing around. I was like, look at Sammy go. I've tried. I joined this really nice gym in Rochester and they have like, all kinds of things. And so I wanted, I was like, oh, I'm going to do pickleball, but my wife has an aversion to racket sports, so we don't.

[A]

Pickleball's great. I, you know, I love a racket sport too. Tennis is the other thing that gets me off.

[B]

She doesn't, she doesn't like racket sports because of the cello. It could like, affect her muscle structure. So we don't racket sport. And then I was like, maybe I'll like, get into playing like, I don't know, beer league hockey or like pick up basketball. And I was like, I don't want to do that.

[A]

What am I going to do then? You need, you need like multiple people. The thing.

[B]

Yeah, I bruise easy, Sammy. I can't, I can't be out here.

[A]

Yeah, no, no. Team sports.

[B]

So maybe golf. We'll see.

[A]

Golf is actually so fun.

[B]

My dad's a big golfer. He's a great golfer. He gave me golf clubs this year. I think he's trying to like, hint that we could go golfing together.

[A]

Honestly, you should. My dad, one of the only things that we really did together in childhood was he would take me to the driving range and I'm like a decent golfer. I' with you. Golf is another like all these waspy ass sports.

[B]

I don't want to like, hang with them.

[A]

You don't have to. The thing is you can, you can go to like a public golf course or like a public. We didn't belong to a country club. Like, yeah, you know, we would go to like a public driving range or like a public course. And like, you can, you don't need to, like, you don't need to be that good, you know.

[B]

Well, I have to practice. I'll have to practice because my dad golfs at reunion for our golfers. My dad's a reunion golf member in Orlando. It's like a really nice golf course and it's quite lovely.

[A]

Wait, can I tell you something funny? We, I, I once stayed there with ob family for Passover. Like there, like. Oh my God, that's so funny. Of all the places in the world.

[B]

That'S where my pop golfs. Yeah, he's a reunion golfer. And he goes, you know, a couple times a week. You probably have. He's lovely. But my dad, he's not into the gear and all that. Right. He's out there in his pocket T shirts with a. With a dart hanging off his lip, just, like, smoking cigarettes, driving around, chilling.

[A]

Doing whatever he wants, you know?

[B]

Yeah, he's. Yeah, he's. He's. He would probably love zinning. We should maybe talk to him about that.

[A]

Just. Just to go back to racket sports. This is beneficial for everybody. I've been told that racket sports are very good for people with adhd because I think, because it, like, forces you to just keep going back and forth. You can't. There's no time for anything else.

[B]

I'm going to try it.

[A]

You should.

[B]

I'm going to try it.

[A]

Also, like, I feel like when I was playing tennis growing up, like, I would just go to, like, my school and hit against the wall.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You know, simpler time.

[B]

I got to do something. I got to do something because I got to get move. Got to get moving. In my 40s, I'll play.

[A]

You know, what's that thing Michelle Obama said? Let's move. And everyone's a crazy socialist.

[B]

Yeah, no, let's move. And also, I don't know, maybe I got to prepare my body for war. We'll see what's after this weekend. I'm starting to feel like this happened to me. This happened to me. You know, anytime I've. I've gone through, like, a really difficult mental challenge, like, be that graduating college was really stressful for me or, like, deaths in the family or, like, losing a job or anything where you're, like, really challenged mentally with, like, you know, struggling. I've gone into, like, well, I'm just gonna get really physically strong because I don't feel like I can function right now. So I'm just gonna go lift some heavy stuff, and then I'll feel a sense of accomplishment. And I think that's what I'm feeling coming out of this weekend and coming out of the first three weeks of the Trump administration is, like, mentally, I'm so, like, struggling, and I'm, like, stressed, and my emotions are all over the place. So I'm like, maybe I'll just be physically strong and somehow that will, like, balance me out.

[A]

I think you're absolutely right. And I have actually felt that way, too. There's something when you're really feeling unsettled to another level. That physical existence, something about physical exertion just Takes it away a little bit. Yeah, yeah, I've felt that before. So I think that's a good. I think that's a great point.

[B]

Well, we're gonna talk about the Munich security conference that was this weekend. And everybody who listens to the show has either been the breaker upper or has broken up with somebody. And what this is gonna feel like. It feels like when you break up with somebody who is really toxic and you have that final, like, relief cry. That was what Europe was doing to the United States over the weekend. They finally left their narcissistic ex.

[A]

Except where the narcissistic ex.

[B]

We are the narcissistic ex. Yes. And what's difficult for me is I've also been on the side of, like, being broken up with and feeling like I didn't deserve to be broken up with. And. And that is how the United States is feeling right now. They're, like, very toxic. At least the Trump administration on the world stage is being extremely toxic in relation to this breakup.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, I would say so. This is. Well, it was sort of. Here's how I would say the United States was looking to monkey Branch. And once it found a partnership with Elon and Putin and it can now align with all these other interests, they're like, you know, we don't need this relationship anymore with annoying, codependent Europe. Europe with their wine and cheese and sophistication.

[B]

Yeah. And we're going to try to hook up over here.

[A]

Southern Mediterranean waters.

[B]

No. And I just want to tell the United States, strippers don't actually love you. You're trying to, Monkey Branch, to. To a relationship that is based on your ability to give it money and resources. This is not a real relationship. Okay, guys, US Is very blinded by what they think they're going to get from Russia or Saudi Arabia or whoever. And I'm like, she only talks to you because you keep those dollar bills coming.

[A]

Well, I think they want the dollar bills to. They want to basically marginalize the impact of the dollar bills at their own. What they want to do is they want to attach themselves to us for their own benefit and then suck out our souls, because that's what narcissists do.

[B]

Hello, oversharing Listeners, it's Dr. Naomi Bernstein with some exciting news. Starting January 13th, our Oversharing Calm the Down subscription is getting even better. Subscribers will get oversharing episodes a day early, plus additional exclusive bonus content on the 2nd and 4th Thursdays of each month. Here's what's new. One bonus episode with even more emails and advice, and another where we follow up with past email writers who could be you. While we won't be releasing new meditations in the new year, don't worry, all of our past meditations will stay available on the feed for you to enjoy anytime. Plus we'll have a new Meditations playlist for our Spotify listeners. To sign up now, head to subscribe.basches.com and select Oversharing. Calm the Fuck down we're so excited about creating this new bonus content, talking to more of you, hearing your stories, sharing some of our own, and reminding us all to calm the fuck down.

[A]

I can say to my new Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, hey, find a keto.

[B]

Friendly restaurant nearby and text it to Beth and Steve. And it does without me lifting a.

[A]

Finger so I can get in more squats anywhere I can.

[B]

1, 2, 3 will that be cash or credit? Credit. 4 Galaxy S25 Ultra the AI companion that does the heavy lifting so you can do. You get [e-mail] compatible with select Astrocars Google Gemini account results may vary based on input. Check responses for accuracy this weekend was the Munich Global Security Conference. It started in 1963 and the goal of it is to bring together global leaders to foster like camaraderie and peace around the world. The attendees are typically members of the G7, so major global powers like the United States, UK, Italy, Canada, Japan, France, and a representative from the EU. And then there's also like humanitarian efforts that get stage time there. Like the leader of the World Health Organization was there. Women's rights activists from Africa were there. And then there are like individual world leaders that appeal to the big powers for help. Folks like Ukraine's President Zelensky, breakout star.

[A]

Really of the Munich Security Conference.

[B]

Absolutely. So this year's event, each year they have a different focus. And this year's event was focused on peace efforts surrounding the illegal Russian war of aggression against Ukraine and the situation in the Middle east, as well as on transit Atlantic relations, cooperation with the new U.S. administration and work to strengthen NATO in light of current challenges facing Europe and the world. Now that's straight off their website. So they are, they are using language like this is an illegal Russian war of aggression against Ukraine and we are trying to now figure out how to work with the United States. So all of that was set up in the beginning. Everybody who attended knew that's what was going to happen. One of the weird things that they did at this is, you know when you go to a conference, it's like a Bunch of panels. Not this, not this. They had an event called Diplomatic speed dating where they give dozens of world leaders like 20 minutes to essentially beg their case in front of the audience of powerful world leaders, which is where we got that fucking insane. Well, like Zelensky got up there and was like, we need the Europeans to develop our own standup army because we can't count on the United States. The leaders from like West Africa for women's rights were like, X amount of women are troubled in our country and this is what we need from you. And then J.D. vance gave up, got up there and gave like the most unhinged, whack ass speech ever.

[A]

So this sounds more like Diplomatic Shark Tank.

[B]

Diplomatic Shark Tank, yes.

[A]

Yeah, that's what it. Okay, so J.D. vance, keep going.

[B]

So J.D. vance gets up during this time, which he didn't need to be up during this time because the United States is a power. It can speak whenever it wants to. But you're supposed to go as like the big dog in the room and be the listener. This is a moment for us to sort of like hear the cries of the rest of the world and see how we're going to jump in as like the good guy to save Everybody. But no, J.D. vance gets up there and criticizes the organizers of the Munich Security Conference for quote, banning lawmakers representing populist parties on both the left and the right from participating in these conversations.

[A]

Is that true?

[B]

No. They did not invite Czechoslovakia to this particular negotiation as a power, even though Britain and France told them that they were going to. I don't know exactly what's going on behind the scenes with that. We'd have to dig more into what's going on with checks. But I feel like that's going to have something to do with Russia a little bit because they have mercenaries from Czechoslovakia that serve in the Russian army and whatnot. So could be that what he is talking about is Russia. Russia was not invited to this year's event because they are the subject by which we are seeking to sort of do world peace against. They are the aggressor. They're on the outs. So it felt very much like J.D. bance was pandering to Russia, who used to be included and is not this year. But who did he think was missing from that room? You know what I mean? Like, other than Russia, everybody else was there.

[A]

Right? Well, I mean, from. From what I saw of the speech and this event was that he was basically trying to call out Europe for, quote, abandoning its values. And that was really like code for being woke. And, and what he was trying to do was, and this was against the backdrop of the fact that when he was in Germany, he met with the leader of the AfD party. Who could have ever thought they'd be so relevant? And, but he did not meet with the current chancellor, Olaf Schultz. So that says a lot, considering it's like the chancellor at the moment rather than this aspiring right wing party leader. So basically, and I think we know by the reaction that they were like deeply, deeply offended by this.

[B]

He's practically booed off the stage for sure. I mean, so thing if he, so he, he gets up there, he criticizes the organizers, right? And then he criticizes the domestic policies of European countries, saying that the greatest threat to the world does not come from China or Russia, but from within Europe itself, which is like very not the way the United States ever speaks. I mean, I was at the NATO summit this past year and the entire thing was about China and how it is the greatest threat to everybody and Russia being a close second. So Vance says, quote, what I worry about is the threat from within, which, remember they say that in America, the enemy from within. Right. But he's calling this the threat from within, the retreat of Europe from some of its most important values it shares with the United States. But he went on to complain that Europe is restricting anti abortion protests and, quote, censoring misinformation and disinformation on social media. He said that Germany is the greatest threat to democracy as they try to control the AfD, this far right nationalist party that's been compared to the Nazis and that's been brewing in the country. So J.D. vance is like, Germany is the worst because they're trying to tamp down the rise of Nazi ideology again in their country. And those are the values that we share with America. Like that. He's pointing out things like China, Russia and the Nazis and saying, you guys aren't cool with them, so you're not cool with us. Which is like a crazy thing to say on a world stage.

[A]

This is like worse than Helsinki because there is nothing to stop it at this point. I saw that on Russian tv. They were ecstatic. They were, they were saying, like, we couldn't have. This is what we've been trying to do for years. Trump is destabilizing these alliances. This is what the Kremlin has wanted. They also said we should make it clear to the Europeans that we could strike Brussels or Paris or anywhere. And because it's clear that the United States will not step up anymore to stop that.

[B]

Right, right. Well, now here's, this is, here's where huge alignment.

[A]

It's like if Ross and Rachel broke up permanently, it's huge.

[B]

We were on a break. Pivot. We need to pivot. So speaking of, like the US not stepping up anymore, this JD Vance speech at this global security conference was especially bad given that earlier in the week at a different security conference in Brussels, Pete Hegseth, who's our secretary defense, told NATO and Ukrainian ministers that a return to Ukraine's pre2014 borders is an unrealistic objective and ruled out NATO membership for Kiev, which is like all for the last however long, Ukraine has been on this path to proving that they deserved NATO leadership. They had to get the corruption out of their government. They had to prove their finances were right. They had to prove that they could, like, be in an active military that could, like, do good work. Well, they've been at war for like three some years now. They've been holding their own. They've met all of these sort of objectives. And at the NATO summit, they were talking about how this year would be the year that Ukraine would probably make that big step if not being in NATO but being very close, like it was on the horizon. So for Pete Exet to come out here and say not ain't gonna happen was a huge, huge shock to the world.

[A]

Mostly also because this is, they're about to start a negotiation and America is saying, with a glass of alleged whiskey in hand, they're saying, we're going to negotiate with Russia on behalf of Ukraine, and you're not going to get any of the things that you want. And you're also going to lose the land that they took in this illegal, aggressive invasion. And the United States is not going to do anything about it. Europe's not going to make that the priority. But now they know that they can get it. Get Russia knows that they can get land by force.

[B]

Oh, absolutely. And that, and that was made clear because Trump backed up Pete Hegseth announcing that he was going to be negotiating on behalf of Ukraine with Putin and the Saudis in Saudi Arabia today. If you're listening to this on Tuesday, that's what they're doing today. Trump also wants a ceremonial end to the war in Ukraine to happen on Easter Sunday. Because, you know the Christians. Well, that's, that's coming up pretty soon.

[A]

Yeah. We've talked about how there is an underlying Christian orthodoxy to their purpose. And, and you know what their claim to sovereignty and their claim to this Land. And their mission is. But. So I do think that Easter Sunday plays into that, but I. For the symbolism, but I also think that it aligns with how quickly they're all moving internally in the United States. They know that they have to lock it up because they're not going to have. The longer that they take to accomplish any sort of given goal, they're going to be less likely to succeed to the extent they want.

[B]

Well, because they don't have congressional support on this. The president is acting rogue. Typically, Congress is the one who has to, like, declare war and give the budget to do anything. And Trump is just out there being like, no, we're just going to do it how I want to, and I'll figure it out later.

[A]

And we're getting Gaza.

[B]

And we're getting Gaza. That's next. But you can't negotiate the end of a war without Ukraine and without the eu. I mean, Trump is clearly lining himself up with Russia over our allies. And Keir Starmer, who is the prime minister of the UK Said that he's not opposed to putting UK boots on the ground in Ukraine if the US Fails to meet their obligations. Zelensky also said that, you know, this idea of each country needs to do a percent of their budget, needs to go to military. He's like, it's not enough. I need an army. I need soldiers. I need, like, a little bit more of a stake from Europe than what we've had. You can't just keep sending us money for weapons, because now we're in a war of attrition where we are likely to eliminate an entire generation of men from both Ukraine and Russia just bombing each other back and forth forever. There has to be a reason that Russia stops. And the only reason Russia will stop is if they see NATO allies or the rest of Europe, and the United States in particular show up and be like, okay, now we actually can outpower you.

[A]

Well, now Zelensky is openly calling for a European army and for them to operate as a military bloc. And I'm going to say that I agree and I support that idea, and I think that that will benefit Americans. The, the Americans who don't want to live under this, this, you know, new world order, as is being sought. And he said, he basically. And the thing is, they have no choice but to do this, because he. And I believe Zelensky is right about this. He basically said that there is 100% chance that Putin will go further into Europe. He doesn't know how much further was.

[B]

Already in Belarus today. Doing training exercises. That's not their goal.

[A]

He wants to own Europe. He wants it to be his because he has imperial ambitions. Like, he thinks he's Napoleon or what a Caesar, whatever it is. Like, that is the mold of Vladimir Putin. And to underestimate that seems silly. So it's like, they do need to mobilize. And, yeah, Zelensky, I just want to say he is emerging as the real figure of this time, and I am, like, really impressed that he is actually stepping up, because there's really no one else. I mean, Macron called for an emergency meeting Monday, aka, as we're recording today, but yesterday, if you're listening, Tuesday, and that all the European powers now meet and have to, I guess, do what Zelenskyy says. And it is so necessary. That is really the only bulwark that I see at stake, because I don't see one coming from inside America.

[B]

No, we. We are. We are cooked in that particular way. Like, I did a video this past weekend talking about how America has lost deference. And is it hegemony or hegemony? Hegemony.

[A]

Hegemony.

[B]

That's gonna be hard for me to get out of my head, because I've been saying hegemony either way about, like, gem. Hegemony. We're. We are losing that.

[A]

We are losing that anymore.

[B]

We don't have that anymore. We will not be setting the cultural or economic norms for the rest of the world. We will not be getting deference when it comes to military strategy the way that we have all these years, and that will come at a cost to us.

[A]

But I do want to say that in terms of other bulwarks, not really seeing much in Congress, but I am seeing within the Federal Service quite a bit of resistance and people standing up to their oath. We'll see what happens with the military if they are asked to obey an illegal order. But also Canadians, Canadians are like, fuck, no, we're not being your 51st state.

[B]

We want to be your number one friend, though. I thought that was fun. There was a prime minister from Canada this weekend who did a TikTok video, and he was like, we won't be your 51st state, but we would like to be your number one friend.

[A]

I thought that was like, wow, you.

[B]

Got to talk to him like a preschooler. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. Foreign this episode is brought to you by Lifelock. During tax season, your personal info travels to a lot of places between payroll, your tax consultant and the IRS. If your W2 gets exposed, that's just the ticket for identity thieves. That's why Lifelock monitors millions of data points every second. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Don't let identity thieves take you for a ride. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast terms apply now when it comes to the military, as far as I know, and I feel pretty well connected to the Pentagon and to everything that comes below, that they won't do an order that's unconstitutional, but all it takes is somebody writing a law that is found to be constitutional for the new order to be constitutional. So we have to watch what Congress and the Supreme Court does. And like my contact at the Marines said, the jags are working on this. The military lawyers inside, you know, the Navy are working on how to write an order that would be constitutional that might be doing something that's unpopular or unfriendly. So we gotta be careful because Pete Hegseth is, as the New York Times calls him every single day, uniquely unqualified and has been doing a lot of stuff that is not really Sec. Def. Job description. He's flying around on military planes. He's working out with the Army Green Berets. Somebody accused him of having his speeches written by Tucker Carlson, saying that the tone and quality of the speeches and the plans are that of a has been Fox News host.

[A]

Sounds about right.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, if he wanted to stay an infantryman, he should have done that. This is a new job. The Secretary of Defense is a new job. And working out with the troops is maybe good when you're a captain for morale. But that's not what they want the top brass to be doing. They want them to be working on strategy and keeping American soldiers safe. And that's not what he's doing at all.

[A]

Are you sure you want this man working on strategy?

[B]

I don't. Well, I want somebody working on it, but not him. But he, he does not know what he's doing. He doesn't know what the job is. And so he's doing all these sort of things that make maybe the average MAGA voter think he's doing great stuff like working out with the Green Berets in Germany. Meanwhile, Germany is probably considering Kicking us off the base there. If we're not a friendly ally, we're going to lose all of these, like, accommodations we have around the world. Okinaw, Germany, Greenland, all these places that we have military bases that are strategically placed to hold Russia and China and everyone at bay. You lose that if they don't trust us.

[A]

Not to mention the usaid.

[B]

Oh, all of that. Right.

[A]

Like, I, you know, it's just sad. Sorry. State that now. We have to now kind of be like, oh, well, soft power is so important. It's like, soft power is over. Not have anyone attacking you personally.

[B]

Let me tell you how. Let me tell you how this is going to play out when it comes to soft power, given the USAID stuff. And Pete Hegseth. So Pete Hegseth's former mistress, now second wife or third wife, I can't remember, went with him to Germany and she tried to do some Princess Diana stuff where she was going to, like, go into an elementary school and, like, read a book to the students, and the school walked out.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

That doesn't. They don't walk out on, like, the first lady of the military of the United States, if you will. The school, the teachers, the students held a protest and walked out. When J.D. vance went to Notre Dame carrying his children and wearing jeans, which was unhinged to me, like, if you're a serious Catholic. If you're a serious Catholic, the way that he claims to be, you don't wear jeans to Notre Dame and you expect to be greeted by some form of clergy.

[A]

I also don't think I've ever seen him wear jeans other than ever.

[B]

No.

[A]

So it's like, you.

[B]

So I don't know what the jeans.

[A]

Was about, but I thought for the Western tradition. J.D.

[B]

Nope. I don't know what his deal was. I don't know what the jeans were about. It was also his son's, like, third birthday. Nobody wants to go to Notre Dame for their third birthday. Okay. And I don't know. He. He said he was bored and hungry and wanted to go home. They taped the Sun. They were like, what do you think about being here on your birthday? He's like, I don't want to be here. I'm tired and want to go home.

[A]

At least he didn't tell his dad that he's not really the vice president and to shush his mouth.

[B]

So J.D. vance goes to Notre Dame carrying his children and was not greeted by clergy there either, which is not common when an American diplomat is in France at such a, like, institution. Of Catholicism. He would be greeted by the bishop or by the cardinal or by somebody there in some sort of diplomatic way. Nothing. He walked in, he sat down awkwardly for a little while, and then they left. And that was it. And that is because the Pope, you don't get higher than that. You don't have to be Catholic. But we're talking about what this man claims he believes. The Pope said that Vance is a fucking tool. He didn't use those words, but I was raised Catholic. I know what he meant. And he said that Trump and Vance's policies on immigration and deportation are deplorable and not in line with the teachings of Christ or the Catholic Church. And then nobody comes to meet JD Vance at Notre Dame. We have lost soft power. We have lost even, like, courtesies around the world.

[A]

That's really sad and scary because. And I know this all seems so, like, trivial, but it's like the long term consequences of that. It's the fact that Russia and China don't. Us being quote, unquote, aligned with them is not necessarily safer because that's not necessarily what they really want from Alliance.

[B]

They're fake friends. And just, you know, not to bring up old Joe, but when the Pope visited America, he visited with Joe Biden. So I, you know, this is a quick turn from the Catholic Church on the United States of America, which is like, one of its greatest assets is the Catholicism in this country and the amount of money we send to the Vatican. So.

[A]

Well, what if they try to seize the land that they might own?

[B]

I'd be. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump tries to set up his own Vatican. Does a little, like, King Henry VIII situation here. The Church of America. Why not? I mean, he copies everybody else's plans.

[A]

He does have a Bible.

[B]

He does have a Bible.

[A]

Did appoint that Paula woman to be.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Faith leader of the church. Yeah. Well, let me just wrap up the Munich Conference here so we can move into the next thing. But at the end of this Munich Security Conference and all of this foolishness, it closed with the chairman of the conference crying, saying, our common values with the United States are just not so common anymore. And this is where I say it felt like a breakup, because it was not that cry of like, oh, my God, he's terrible to me, but now I've cried to my girlfriends and I'm gonna go back to him. It was that cry of, like, when your girlfriend gets her own apartment and calls you and is like, I did it. I left. I'm out. And you're like, like a relief cry. And I was watching it, like, oh, we're cooked. Cooked. Oh, they're, they're crying and cheering for the crowd.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So here's, you know, I, I didn't know how to put into words exactly how I felt about what the Trump administration or what America's future would be like. And now I do. And those words are, we are the broken up with narcissistic ex and we are gonna struggle in that way. And, and that sucks. And that's really hard. And it didn't have to be this way.

[A]

I feel personally, a sense of grief around it.

[B]

It is grief. Yeah. National grief.

[A]

Not that it's. Not that. It is a new sense of grief because it's like we knew that this is where it was headed since 2016, if you're thinking about it in that way, but it really feels real now. Like we are captive to this.

[B]

Well, and here's. There's some other stuff going around in the background. I don't think Americans understand how privileged and lucky we've been for all of these years. Like, your American passport allows you to go pretty much anywhere you want without having to apply for a visa. Now Mexico is kind of kicking around the idea of maybe making Americans apply for a visa because Mexicans have to apply for a visa to come to the United States. Maybe Claudia is going to make us apply for a visa to go to Mexico. Maybe she'll kick out the 2 million Americans that have taken over Mexico City and say, you're getting deported back to your own country. Canada is, you know, talking about getting their military ready to defend the northern border. They don't like being accused of smuggling in fentanyl. That's like, affects their national pride. Especially since Canada doesn't smuggle in fentanyl. 40, I think they said 43 pounds or something of fentanyl has ever come across the northern border. And we send way more fentanyl to Canada from the United States that they capture.

[A]

Canada's like the good guy that you date that when you finally just push him, he's going to be nice. He's going to be nice. You push him way too hard. You accuse him of something he didn't do, and there's like, no fucking way.

[B]

It's not coming back. He's offering asylum to Americans who think that they could be potentially targeted for their politics or even their social media, which is sort of interesting. I don't know how that would actually play out. But, you know, there is Europe going to say oh, Americans have to have a visa already. I'm going to tell you, if you're not a person who travels internationally, it already started. But the idea of having to apply for a visa and what that means when you're going through customs and not having like, sort of like courtesies extended to you. I'll tell you as a person who has traveled internationally abundantly during the first Trump administration and now having to do it again, people aren't nice to Americans abroad. And it's not because it's because of Trump. It's because you are an extension of your country even if you didn't vote for him. And it sucks. And it's sort of like you become like a joke or like they make it a little hard for you. We take for granted the fact that all other countries are sort of forced to learn English. Like, they're not gonna do that anymore. Good luck to you.

[A]

And the dollar is a strong currency that things are, even our credit cards.

[B]

You know, my American Express credit card is treated like cash or I could just use it at any machine all over the world. All of that is stuff that America had as privileges and courtesies that are, you know, they're sort of looking at now. You're making our life hard. Maybe we're going to make your life harder. Maybe we don't want you to come here with your attitude or your potential far right wing ideology because Europe is an older countries than us. Right. And they know what it's like to survive and come back from fascism. They're not doing it again.

[A]

Right. Like there, there are people alive still who survived fascism and were and took it in a way that Americans didn't because it did not reach our shores in a military set, but they lived through bombings of their homes.

[B]

Yeah. The Iron Curtain, all that.

[A]

Right. It. And that's why I think they're so quick on the uptake right now, as opposed to Americans, which are kind of like, what do we do?

[B]

It's never happened. Yeah.

[A]

And there's five dollars and a elect a Democrat in three years. It's, it's the thing that you're saying. And when I, I remember also traveling abroad during the first Trump administration and I would get into so many conversations, like, because you want people to know that you're like, not interested.

[B]

You're a good one. Yeah, no, I'm a good American. Yeah.

[A]

No, and, and you know, it's very easy because people are like, oh, it's crazy over there. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm just wonder what it'll be like now, so we'll see.

[B]

It's tough. It is tough.

[A]

I'm going to Paris in a month.

[B]

So I go to Italy in April. You know, here's the thing. Trump thinks that Giorgia Maloney is all on his side because she's kind of right wingy with the brothers of Italy and all that business. She's very lined up with Europe. She's invited to Macron's thing. You know, she's. Italy is going to side with Europe. Even if she's sort of like Trump, friendly, I think she's much smarter and maybe more calculating in the way that she does things. But she's not going to. She's not a pro Russia person. She's, you know, pro Italy nationalism or whatever.

[A]

But Italy's already made that mistake once.

[B]

They're not gonna do it again. I know they did it to my own people. That's what I look at this stuff and I'm like, maybe it's because, like, the boomers grew up in such a period of like the golden era after the wars against fascism that they don't remember. But I can remember my grandma talking about Albania and what it was like. She didn't even want us to date Italians because the Italian fascists are the ones who, like, sort of like, like colonized and commandeered and enslaved Albanians and whatnot. And she was like, it's just, if you could do anything, just probably not date Italians. I don't know, it just makes me uncomfortable, you know what I mean? Like, and that was years after the fact. And me and my sister did both marry Italians because, of course, because they're sexy bitches. You can't resist them. But she really was against this because she lived it. And she's like, I remember my father would have to sneak back and he'd have to go behind the Iron Curtain and he'd have to, like, try and, you know, get the rest of our family out and all of this stuff. And that sits with me. And I don't know why other folks don't have that same World War II grandparent experience that we had to know better.

[A]

Maybe because they didn't or they had not been, you know, distorted by mis and disinformation and the, and the really, like, the environment here. Yeah, it's a deeply antisocial culture right now.

[B]

That's what makes it hard for me. Like in my grandpa's eulogy, he had them put in in case anybody was wondering. I did not vote for, nor do I support, nor Do I like Donald Trump? I don't like him, and I think he's a danger. And my cousin Kristen had to like, read it from the pulpit about this thing. And my dad and everybody, all his brothers and sisters who are boomers are sitting there and they don't take it as seriously as I take it. They think like, oh, everything's fine. Oh, you're making a big deal. You're making a big deal. You're gonna like some of the stuff he does. You're not gonna like some of the stuff he does. And I'm like, what stuff do you like that Trump is doing right now?

[A]

The economy, which is terrible.

[B]

Eggs are non existent or 12 bucks.

[A]

So you. They, they are able to come up with a rationalization. We've been watching it for 10 years now.

[B]

I feel bad for the boomers who are like, good boomers because y'all been dealing with this for so long. You must. These were your peers. Like your former bullies are now the President of the United States. Like that class of people that were like, the Rizzo mean girls, if you're going to take this back to Greece again, are now like, in charge of the government still.

[A]

Like, that's Rizzo.

[B]

She turned it around.

[A]

No, but she, like, got an abortion. Like, I don't.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I mean, maybe that's the thing. Like, they all kind of abortion for.

[B]

Me, not for thee. That's true. But the mean girls of the 50s and 60s, the people who like, you know, were horrible in those pictures of integration of schools and everything. Those people are old. Are boomers now. They are not. And, and there has to be. I know, because I have a ton of boomer fans who are like, no, I've been dealing with these assholes my whole life too, and I hate them too. And I just feel oppressed by being with these people who just continue to fight progress even when progress serves them and makes this country better.

[A]

There's just, there's always going to be that people, you know, that, that cohort of people who fucking guess so the.

[B]

Yuppies of the 80s, your cocaine fueled Donald Trump type people. Well, all of this, and we didn't even talk about Trump's plan to do an ethnic cleansing and remove all the Palestinians from Gaza, possib from the west bank as well. And how Egypt, the Saudis and Jordan and basically all the Arab states, including Iran, are like, whoa, bro, we never said that that was cool. We said two state solution where an Arab nation controls that strip of the sea. And now I don't know how that's going to go, because you've got Russia and Trump talking about Ukraine and Saudi Arabia. Marco Rubio is supposed to be talking about Gaza with the Saudis. Like, how is this gonna shake out?

[A]

They're just going to decide what they want to belong to who.

[B]

And Egypt is not gonna take 2 million Palestinians. And also, that is the definition of ethnic cleansing. I know there's a lot of, like, rhetoric, and the way that people talk about stuff in the Middle east can be very touchy, but the forced removal of an ethnic group from their native land is an ethnic cleansing period. That's just. That's just the actual word.

[A]

I think the thing is, Egypt says, now we're not going to take them, but what is. What are they going to offer Egypt?

[B]

What? Yeah. What would be the benefit?

[A]

I don't. We're going to see. I think that, like, there's. There's so much that remains to be seen. That.

[B]

Yeah, because it's not like Egypt is super built up in a way that they have, like, you know, all the money and resources and ability to take 2 million people and give them this big, beautiful quality of life that Trump is talking about. These big, beautiful neighborhoods. That's just not going to happen. Jordan has said the same thing. They're like, look, man, we have a certain culture and way where you can't just, like. It's like when people tell me, oh, my God, if they burn down TikTok, you could just go to Instagram. No. Each one of these entities has their own unique culture, and the people at the top are just like, oh, I don't care. I'm just gonna shove everybody in the box. I think they deserve to be in. Meanwhile, Jordan and now Iran. We want beef with Iran again. Come on. They got that wacko crazy clergy running everything over there. I don't want to be dealing with them. We're gonna get another whole, like, jihad thing going.

[A]

They were just on the way out, so, I don't know.

[B]

Iran was like, yeah. And now all of a sudden, they're back. The Taliban is back, ISIS is back. I'm like, what the hell, guys?

[A]

What the hell?

[B]

Indeed. Welcome back. We are now leaving the Middle east and Europe to. To talk about problems here at home in America. So welcome back. Stamp your passport on the way through.

[A]

Yeah, you're maybe becoming your. Your passport that's potentially losing value by the second. I read an interesting article in Foreign affairs that I think was. That made me feel a little less bad.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Didn't make me feel great. Didn't make me feel great. Great.

[B]

Less bad's good, though.

[A]

Less bad. It was written by two very reputable authors, Stephen Levitsky and Lucan Way, who basically write about the Path to American Authoritarianism. That's the title. And what that would actually look like after a democratic breakdown. And if you're wondering if it's going to look like Nazi Germany, the answer is not quite. If it's going to look like. Like Orban's Hungary, it's not quite yet. And what I want to point out basically is what the authors say makes America unique and potentially uniquely resistant to the most extreme measure of authoritarianism.

[B]

I think I know what it is.

[A]

First, let me just say they do define it as something called competitive authoritarianism, which is just like authoritarian life, where it would just look a little more free and you could have an opposition quote, unquote. But it's not going to be a. It's going to be like the least equal playing field you could possibly imagine. They think that the thing that will hold up democratic ideals to a small extent could be none other than federalism, which is.

[B]

Yeah, baby.

[A]

States rights.

[B]

States rights. States.

[A]

Are we gonna end up grateful for states rights?

[B]

Yep. Yep. So can't believe this, but yes. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Basically, they think that that will make it slightly harder to enforce some of the federal government's biggest overreaches. Now, it doesn't make me particularly comforted, but it does point out a pretty substantial difference between America, which is much larger, you know, much more disparate in terms of populations and localized in terms of the way things are set up, like elections are set up locally. There is no. I mean, you know, the federal government could say we're instituting an election, but I don't know how they. I mean, I guess they could do anything they want, but there's still local governance and state governance, and that is kind of what could ultimately end up saving us. And basically, it would look like just an opposition that was at a severe disadvantage. Anyone who opposes the regime would do so at a great cost, while the advantage of sticking with it would be just so much greater. And yeah, it really is kind of. I would highly recommend reading it. It's in far on foreign affairs.com Path to American authoritarianism.

[B]

We'll link to it in the show notes.

[A]

Yeah, do that. Right, we will do that.

[B]

I mean, I think we're seeing the states rights thing already play out, and it has been in the abortion argument. I'm watching Kathy Hochul start to, you know, straighten up just a little bit more. When Kathy's got that dark purple lipstick on, I know shit's about to go down. Because that is the. That's the girl from the backwoods of Buffalo that I recognize that I'm like, come on, girl, let's get it going. Let's get it. Let's get. Let's, let's fire Eric Adams and let's protect New York.

[A]

See, that would be such a badass move for her. It's literally, I think she's on a silver platter to do something really, like, really, really helpful that would win her so much favor. She should do it, Kathy. Do it.

[B]

She. Do it, Kathy. Do it, do it, do it. I know I'm doing everything I can to try and be like, just do it.

[A]

It's actually the right thing to do. That's the thing.

[B]

It's the right thing to do. And also, it'd be badass. But she's also refusing to extradite the, the New York doctor that, you know, they're trying to, like, sue in Louisiana for prescribing online birth control and abortion pills. She's like, no, I'm not doing that.

[A]

That's also badass. Kathy, this is your chance.

[B]

Yeah, New York's going to be where it's at. I think we're on the front lines of the war against Trump, if you will, as far as any states go, I think even more than California. Yes. Because of this abortion case, because Pam Bondi has already filed a lawsuit against Kathy Hochul and the state of New York because of the. That's going on with New York City' Aaron Trump. I think New York's on the front line of this. Now. The way that we fight is our governor controls the National Guard, which is great, except when you consider that's up against the US Military. And the US Military can't do anything unconstitutional. But I don't know. I think that Kathy Hochul has the chance to be who I believe she truly is when she's herself and not advised by a bunch of, like, weenies.

[A]

Well, the thing is that I've always said about Kathy Hochul is the fact that she was able to rise to the lieutenant governor number two under Cuomo via. Within the system. Not like that, to me, speaks volumes, because that is a tough environment. And if you can get there, that really says something, especially because, no offense, Kathy, she's not Mrs. Charisma. So she didn't just, like, she didn't charm her way in there.

[B]

She didn't whimmer her way there. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

She worked her ass very hard work.

[B]

But she's very charismatic. I mean.

[A]

Yeah, but Kathy, she has a chance to really just be such a badass.

[B]

Kathy, we're counting on you, girl.

[A]

It's the right thing to do.

[B]

You know, you can do it. That's the thing. You're outside the system now. You worked the system, you got to the point you're at, and now it's time for you to do what you know is right and not take advice from the weenies down in Albany that are constantly trying to like, hold us back and be so, like, hand shaky, diplomatic bullshitty.

[A]

And she got elected.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I like her.

[A]

And this is corrupt.

[B]

Yeah. And now we see Andrew Cuomo is maybe going to run for mayor. Are you going to let that happen? Like, Cath, we're counting on you. This will come on make.

[A]

I honestly think that if she kicks Eric Adams out, she will beat Andrew Cuomo.

[B]

Oh, for sure. I support her.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

But yeah, I think that's what we're going to see with a lot of the states. Right stuff. And I do think that the Southern states who think they're so aligned with Trump's agenda are going to find that the people who live in those states are not so aligned with that agenda. Most in particular women who are suffering higher rates of infant death and maternal mortality since the abortion bans. That's not great for families. That's not great for people. And the farmers. You fucking with the Midwest corn kings and queens is not a good idea. We've talked about that before and now there was a sit in over the weekend. We told you, don't mess with the corn.

[A]

Children of the corn.

[B]

The children of the corn. Did you not watch a movie ever this weekend? There was a sit in down in D.C. of farmers from all over the place. Rural farmers, female farmers, male farmers, queer for every kind of farmer you could possibly imagine representing themselves and saying, we need the USDA funding to be turned back on. Because when he turned off all federal funding, when Elon found, quote, all this waste, they said a lot of the waste was going to farm subsidies. And why do the farms need these subsidies? It's not 1932 anymore. When we establish the SNAP programs and the farm subsidies, we need to be. People need to be standing on their own. And if a farm can't make it on their own, than too bad. And that is how I know you don't know anything about this country or how it runs or the way that Americans are happy to support farms that do a lot of things, but it takes a little bit more than. We don't pay for cash crops in a local way, the way that we used to. So these farmers were sitting in down there because they. The way USDA granting works is the farm applies for a grant. And maybe they applied for solar panels for their farm. Maybe they applied for upgrades to get LED lighting on the farm or more security or extra cows or sheep. Sheep. Or they're having problems with bird flu, so they applied for more hens or more eggs. Or maybe they applied to buy more land because their farm is doing really great. Or maybe they need fertilizer or seeds. Seeds in particular is important here because it is illegal to use your own seeds. Did you know that?

[A]

No.

[B]

Here's a little. Here's a little food fun for you.

[A]

How would anyone find out?

[B]

They check. There are government regulators who come in and check because you are required to buy a certain amount of seeds every year. And they know if you don't place your order. So the government owns the seeds, right? And. And like, contracts it out to like Montesano and whoever else. And if, let's say you grow sunflowers, right, you can't replant your own sunflower seeds the next year. You have to buy sunflower seeds. And that's how it is for corn and everything else. You can't reuse your pharmacies, which is egregious and should be eradicated.

[A]

I guess that comes with this fact that you're getting these subsidies.

[B]

It comes with the fact you're getting the subsidy. Except we could give that subsidy one time and then those farmers could be reusing those seeds from tomatoes or whatever else they may have or apples to reseed their farms and they wouldn't need to buy as many seeds every single time. They're essentially forcing farmers to waste crop so that they have to buy new seed, which is stupid. Shit.

[A]

Could they just use some, Couldn't they like inflate it?

[B]

Nope.

[A]

I'm sure some must.

[B]

Well, maybe a little bit, but not at the scale that's required. And it just is shitty. So anyway, these, these farmers, you know, they're planning. They planned their. It's winter, they already planted, they plant that. We're done. We're like, we're like, you know, getting ready to like. They've planned what they're going to do. They'll start with spring vegetables, right, which they'll pick and then they'll move into summer and fall and whatever. So these farmers have already Purchased the seed, the land, the, the, whatever they needed. And now they are waiting for the USDA to pay them back.

[A]

They laid out the cash and they're not going to get reimbursed.

[B]

And now because Elon shut off the money, they're not getting reimbursed. Well, the money's already out. So now how are they going to pay labor to pick the crop? How are they going to pay labor to harvest? How are they going to pay for the water that they need, the heat that they need, electricity? They need, whatever the case may be that they need on these farms? They're out of the cash. And we're not talking little cash. These grants are somewhere between 5,000 for a small, you know, farm or homestead space. We're talking millions of dollars, millions of dollars to operate major, major farms. They can't make that money. And they can't even, even, they can't even, they can't, they're, they're absolutely hamstringed here. And so they were doing a sit in to say, you need to turn back on that USDA farming. And here's our contract, here's our paperwork. We have with you. We signed a deal and you said you would pay us back on the state and now we're like two, three months late. I'm going to lose my farm. And Trump is trying to say you made that deal with Biden.

[A]

No, you made the deal with the US Government.

[B]

United States Department of Agriculture is who signed that paperwork. And it doesn't matter if it was Tom Vilsack or Sonny Perdue or whoever was. It is a contract with an entity, not with a person.

[A]

Well, the other thing is, it's not like the sea, it's not like this can now be turned into crops even if they wanted to because they can't afford to operate. So all of this is just wasted now.

[B]

Yeah. So that's. So now people need to make a fuss about this. The farmers are making a fuss about it. We'll see what their congress people and senators and legislators do because these are the people who vote for them. And he just scammed, essentially or put all of, you know, American agriculture out to dry.

[A]

Well, if you ever wonder why Iowa is so important, this is the kind of shit there ain't even going to.

[B]

Be straw for the straw pole going to be shit. And then. But the other thing is they're so short sighted and everything is so capitalistically driven that I'm sure somewhere up there the people like Bill Gates. Not Bill Gates, because I actually think he's like trying to do good right now. But these big billionaires, Jeff Bezos, whoever, who buy up all the American farmland are like, oh well, if you lose your farm, I'll buy up that land. I want to own the land. But they don't understand. They're such short term thinkers. They don't understand what that means. We're already losing so many family farms, so many farms for food. It affects our ability to trade with other people to create fuel and energy. And also this is kind of a sad statistic, but when I worked in food, we used to deal with this a lot. The highest rate of suicide is amongst farmers because it's like veterans and farmers. And it's because these people who feel like they did everything they could to help and it wasn't enough. Somebody still went to bed hungry tonight. I still lost my farm. They can't handle that kind of pressure. And it's so hard to be a farmer that the rate of, you know, leaving farming or suicide is so incredibly high. And stuff like this certainly does not help.

[A]

Right. It's just, it's cruel. And the thing is that these, the, the billionaires, they will never, they're insulated from this entirely. They don't get that like people have to work every day despite the fact that they employ play million, thousands, millions of these people collectively. It's like you don't seem to regard anyone's humanity. And I think that there will be a point at which a wall is hit where it can't work anymore. But they don't think so. They think AI is just going to fix everything.

[B]

I guess so. AI is going to grow the crops. Everything will be in an abandoned building and a vertical farm, which is also a dream, to use abandoned buildings as vertical farms. I actually like that dream. But that's very expensive too. Lots of water. They have the money, so yeah, so that's, so that's what's happening there. So I think that we will see the people push back. I think it's going to be difficult. I don't think anybody who's MAGA will have like a great realization, moment of embarrassment and then period of apology, the way that it typically works when people learn new things. But I think they're going to have to stop Elon in some way. Now he's in the, the IRS looking at taxes and stuff. Like, I just don't know what we're doing. You know what I mean? I'm like, what, what are we doing? The Democrats say they're winning in the Courts, and I think they're scrambling for a solution. But you, we are in a lawless kind of administration. You can't be lawful when you're doing this.

[A]

You also can't fight what is physically happening in the real world inside the agencies with a court order, because what is the core ethics?

[B]

They're not obeying paper.

[A]

If they're not listening, it doesn't mean anything. And look, I don't know what they're doing, but I know that we, you and me, you and I are going to be here every week helping us understand, helping ourselves and everybody else understand what the fuck is going on and talk about the craziest parts of it in a way that is hopefully enjoyable and not too frightening.

[B]

Yeah, we're here to prepare you, not scarier. That's been my motto for this year. And Sammy agrees. And you know, that's the thing, like we tell you about this stuff so that you know what it is so when it comes up in conversation, you can do something about it. You never know who's listening to. We have some of the most eclectic group of people listening and they'll hear about these farmers doing a sit in about the USDA stuff and maybe you know how to help them or maybe you know how to, you know, amplify their message. That's really what we have to be about now is like, what does it mean to rebuild society? Some parts that Trump is ruining, I think, you know, you could tell somebody the stove is hot, they're still going to touch it. But we still, we don't want anyone else to get burned and we want you to get help for your burnt hand. So, you know, I don't know. Sammy, email us, let us know what you're feeling and how you're thinking or.

[A]

Write in the Spotify comments or post the. Post this on your story or share with your friends, please. We hope that it helps you. We hope it helps them and we will continue through this American fever dream nightmare with you together.

[B]

And remember, it's not just this show. You can find Sammy every morning doing the morning announcements. I'm with you every night to do the news at under the Desk News. Also follow Sammy. Sammy, what's your handle?

[A]

Sammy on Instagram and threads and Amysages on the other stuff.

[B]

TikTok, come talk to us. We need to build society and stay in community because that's how we're going to get through this and not be prepared or blindsided. All right, until next time, I'm vspier.

[A]

And I'm Sammy Sage.

[B]

And this is American Fever Dream.

[A]

Batches.