Japanese in America

Summary

American History Hit: "Japanese in America"

Episode Overview

In the December 30, 2024 episode of American History Hit, host Don Wildman delves deep into the intricate history of Japanese immigration to the United States and the subsequent challenges faced by Japanese Americans. Featuring an insightful conversation with Kristen Hayashi, Director of Collections, Management, and Access and Curator at the Japanese American National Museum in Los Angeles, the episode navigates through generations of Japanese immigrants, legislative milestones, social dynamics, and the profound impact of World War II on the Japanese American community.

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1. Introduction to Japanese American Generations [02:02 - 08:16]

Don Wildman opens the episode by framing the narrative of the United States as a nation of immigrants, juxtaposing this ideal with the historical opposition faced by various immigrant groups. He introduces Kristen Hayashi, who provides clarity on the generational terminology used within the Japanese American community:

• Issei: The first-generation immigrants who relocated from Japan.
• Nisei: The second generation, born in the United States to Issei parents.
• Sansei: The third generation.
• Yonsei: The fourth generation.

“We use generations to sort of understand history in the Japanese American experience,” explains Hayashi (07:34).

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2. Early Japanese Immigration and Labor Contributions [08:16 - 14:51]

The discussion traces the origins of Japanese immigration, beginning in the 1850s in Hawaii and expanding to the continental United States in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Japanese immigrants primarily worked in agriculture, contributing significantly to plantations in Hawaii and farming in California.

Hayashi highlights the parallels between Japanese and earlier Chinese immigration, notably the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, which set a precedent for racially based immigration legislation. Despite their essential labor contributions, Japanese immigrants faced significant prejudice and economic restrictions.

“It was a lot of blue-collar, working-class white laborers who are fearful of this cheap labor source that's competing for jobs,” Hayashi notes (10:39).

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3. Legislative Challenges and the Gentlemen’s Agreement [14:51 - 17:29]

Amid growing anti-immigrant sentiment, the Gentlemen’s Agreement of 1907 was established between the U.S. and Japan to curb Japanese immigration. However, loopholes allowed family members to migrate, leading to increased settlement and community building despite ongoing discrimination.

Additionally, California's Alien Land Laws (1913) prohibited non-citizens, including Japanese immigrants, from owning land, thereby stifering economic mobility. These laws were further tightened in the 1920s, exacerbating the challenges faced by the Japanese American community.

“It's a way to really, like, hinder the economic and social mobility of these Issei Japanese immigrants,” Hayashi explains (16:07).

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4. Building Resilience and Community Institutions [17:29 - 23:23]

Despite legislative obstacles, Japanese Americans showcased remarkable resilience by establishing cultural and community institutions such as Buddhist temples, Shinto shrines, and schools. These institutions served as pillars for maintaining cultural identity while navigating assimilation pressures.

The Nisei generation, born and raised in the U.S., began grappling with dual identities, striving to balance their Japanese heritage with American societal expectations. This generation expressed the desire for full citizenship and equal rights, setting the stage for future civil rights activism.

“They were establishing the Buddhist temples, the Shinto shrines, the Boy Scout troops, the baseball leagues... is a sign of resilience,” Hayashi remarks (21:14).

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5. The Impact of World War II and Internment [23:23 - 37:00]

The attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941 marked a turning point, leading to widespread fear, paranoia, and the internment of Japanese Americans. Executive Order 9066, signed by President Roosevelt on February 19, 1942, authorized the forced relocation and incarceration of approximately 125,000 Japanese Americans, primarily from the West Coast.

Hayashi details the harrowing conditions within the internment camps, describing them as overcrowded, sparsely furnished, and situated in harsh climates. The emotional and cultural toll on families was immense, with significant property losses estimated at $400 million.

“These camps held some 10,000 people in just a few square miles. They were very crowded. Hastily built barracks... it must have been really terrifying,” she states (40:30).

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6. Japanese American Military Service and Heroism [37:00 - 47:18]

Amidst incarceration, many Nisei youths enlisted in the U.S. Army, forming the renowned 442nd Regimental Combat Team. This unit became the most decorated in U.S. military history, exemplifying extraordinary bravery and loyalty despite the discrimination their families endured.

Hayashi also highlights the lesser-known story of the Heart Mountain Fair Play Committee, a group of 63 men who resisted the draft as a protest against internment, leading to their conviction and extended incarceration. Their actions represent a pivotal moment of civil rights assertion within the Japanese American community.

“The 442nd Regimental Combat Team... are the most decorated unit for their size and length of service in all of U.S. military history,” Hayashi emphasizes (45:32).

---

7. Post-War Struggles and the Fight for Redress [47:18 - 56:05]

After World War II, Japanese Americans faced the daunting task of rebuilding their lives amid persistent societal hostility. Despite legal victories, such as the Civil Liberties Act of 1988—which offered a formal apology and $20,000 in reparations to surviving internees—the road to full acceptance and restitution was fraught with challenges.

Hayashi discusses the role of the Sansei generation in advocating for redress and civil liberties, drawing parallels to contemporary discussions on reparations for other marginalized groups.

“The Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians determined that the mass removal and incarceration happened because of wartime hysteria, racial prejudice, and the failure of political leadership,” she concludes (50:14).

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8. Conclusion and Reflections [56:05 - End]

Don Wildman wraps up the episode by reflecting on the enduring relevance of the Japanese American experience, urging listeners to draw lessons from history to inform present-day societal issues. He underscores the importance of remembrance and advocacy to prevent the recurrence of such injustices.

“Anyone who's listening to this can easily reflect on the relevance of this conversation... and apply it to modern day scenarios as well,” Wildman remarks (55:36).

---

Notable Quotes

• “We use generations to sort of understand history in the Japanese American experience.” — Kristen Hayashi (07:34)
• “It's a way to really, like, hinder the economic and social mobility of these Issei Japanese immigrants.” — Kristen Hayashi (16:07)
• “They were establishing the Buddhist temples, the Shinto shrines, the Boy Scout troops... is a sign of resilience.” — Kristen Hayashi (21:14)
• “These camps held some 10,000 people in just a few square miles... it must have been really terrifying.” — Kristen Hayashi (40:30)
• “The 442nd Regimental Combat Team... are the most decorated unit for their size and length of service in all of U.S. military history.” — Kristen Hayashi (45:32)
• “The Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians determined that the mass removal and incarceration happened because of wartime hysteria, racial prejudice, and the failure of political leadership.” — Kristen Hayashi (50:14)
• “Anyone who's listening to this can easily reflect on the relevance of this conversation... and apply it to modern day scenarios as well.” — Don Wildman (55:36)

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of American History Hit offers a comprehensive exploration of the Japanese American narrative, highlighting the resilience, challenges, and contributions of a community that has significantly shaped American history. Through expert insights and poignant storytelling, Don Wildman and Kristen Hayashi shed light on a chapter of history that continues to resonate in contemporary discussions on immigration, civil rights, and social justice.

Transcript

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[Don Wildman]

Hello all. Welcome to American History Hit. I'm Don Wildman. Just jumping in to say Happy Holiday season to you all. Hoping it's a fun one with family and friends and good health and prosperity ahead. I can't wait for you to hear what we have planned for the new year for 2025. We start strong right in January with the presidency of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Then we're sailing to the North American shores of early Jamestown, journeying to the battlegrounds of Vietnam and so, so much more. It's a new year with lots planned. It's just great to be able to do this, to do these podcasts and talk with the great guests we have. It's a real honor. And as always, thank you so much for listening. Today we have a fantastic episode for you from earlier this year when I spoke with Kristen Hayashi of the Japanese American National Museum in Los Angeles to find out about the lives of Japanese Americans throughout the generations. Please enjoy.

[Unknown]

Autumn 1944 World War II in Europe the 1st Battalion of the US Army 141st Regiment out of Texas is stranded on a hillside in the Vosges Mountains of eastern France, 270 troops cut off behind enemy lines. Situation critical. Not far away, though, the Army's 442nd Regimental Combat Team, including the 100th Battalion, is resting after having liberated two French towns from Nazi control only a few short weeks after arriving in Europe. Despite a shortage of troops, the 442nd is ordered back into action to attempt a rescue of those stranded troops soon to be known as the Lost Battalion. Trudging up and down steep grades, picking their way through fields and ravines littered with landmines, the 442nd lives up to its motto, Go for Broke. For six interminable days, troops are engaged in pitched Combat until finally, three companies break through and rescue the Texans. Still, the 442nd does not rest. Major General John Dahlquist insists they fight on until November 8th, when their mission is accomplished and the regiment assembles for a recognition ceremony. Four days after being stood down from their month of action, Dahlquist impatiently demands to know why their ranks seem thin. Lt. Col. Virgil Miller answers. That's all that's left, sir. The 442nd and the famed 100th Battalion is to this day the most decorated unit of its size and length of service in US Military history. It was also formed entirely of second generation Japanese Americans, Nisei, whose families were at the same time interned in prison.

[Don Wildman]

Camps back home in the United States.

[Unknown]

For these soldiers, these men, these Nisei, this war was a battle fought on two fronts.

[Don Wildman]

Good day, American history hit listeners. Don Wildman here. Thanks for clicking through. We are a nation of immigrants, an alloy forged of millions of souls from disparate cultures, united here in a land of liberty, the American promise fulfilled. Sound familiar? It's a traditional theme you'll be hearing a lot of this campaign season, certainly. But you'll also hear the other side of that story. The strident opposition to this notion of a nation, how such immigration ought to be heavily regulated and restricted. Sure, we're a nation of immigrants. That's great. But don't get carried away. We've touched on this topic in past episodes 155 on Irish immigration, one of our most popular. And today we cover another specific demographic. No less fundamental to the American tale, that of the complex and astonishing story of Japanese immigration from later 1800s to into the 20th century, and how their experience and their history lays bare so many of the difficult issues of this nation still ongoing. It's a story that will surprise and enlighten you. So let's meet our expert today. Kristen Hayashi, director of Collections, Management and access and curator of the Japanese American National Museum in Los Angeles, right there in Little Tokyo, one of my favorite neighborhoods in America. Hello, Kristen.

[Unknown]

Hello. It's very nice to meet you.

Don't.

[Don Wildman]

Thanks. I used to live in la, and Little Tokyo led the way to the redevelopment of downtown la. People only had to learn that ramen wasn't just in little plastic packages anymore, right?

[Unknown]

That's right.

And this year, Little Tokyo celebrates its 140th anniversary. And despite this long history, we also were just named One of America's 11 most endangered places by the National Trust for Historic Preservation. So we want to ensure that Little Tokyo continues to be around for another 140 years. But it is a very special neighborhood.

[Don Wildman]

And it's a beautiful museum that you work with there. I've been several times myself, Krishna. This is a vast subject matter we are about to handle. This is a perennial problem for us on this, on all of our episodes, but I want to approach this sort of logistically. The discussion will be about from the 1800s into really the mid 20th century and beyond. But for the purposes of this, it's important that we give ourselves a glossary. There are four terms here. Issei, nisei, sonsei, and yonsei. These are terms that refer to the generations of Japanese Americans who've arrived here. Can you explain why we have these terms and what do they really mean?

[Unknown]

Sure.

So, as you mentioned, sei is generation. And so we're counting generations, like ichi, ni, san, shi, or yon is 1 through 4 in Japanese. So we apply that to the generations and say issei, nisei, sansei and yonsei. So this represents. Yeah, the different generations that have come to the United States and their descendants. So issei would be the immigrant Generation. And then Nisei would mean the generation that was born here in the United States to immigrant parents, but they were US Citizens by birth. And then the next generation is Sanse, and then Yonsei. So I'm Yonsei, I'm fourth generation. My great grandparents immigrated from Japan. And now we're getting into Gosei too, actually, given just the time.

But yeah, so we, we sort of.

Use generations to sort of understand history in the Japanese American experience.

[Don Wildman]

The Japanese American immigration story begins roughly in what year, what era?

[Unknown]

Japanese immigration really started first to Hawaii in the 1850s, and then later to the continental United states in the 1860s, 1870s, as the United States was industrializing and really needed a source of cheap labor to help build infrastructure in the United States.

[Don Wildman]

I can't help myself, but I always go back to the, you know, other stories that are fundamental to this. You have a whole bunch of history happening in Japan, a changeover from. To the Meiji Restoration. There's a whole bunch of industrialization and everything happening there, people moving to the cities. Much of what is happening in America is happening elsewhere. It's the result of the Industrial Revolution, really. But that has prompted, along with economic conditions, a lot of Japanese who are coming to Hawaii for what industry are we talking about? Agricultural, I imagine.

[Unknown]

That's right, yeah.

So many Japanese immigrants were recruited to go to places like Hawaii for agriculture. So they're working in the plantations in Hawaii, sugar and also coffee plantations. And then on the mainland or continental United States, they're also working in agriculture, but also in infrastructure. Like building railroad and those types of industries.

[Don Wildman]

Exactly. In some of ways this is paralleled by what had happened with the Chinese coming to America. Right. I mean, there's a. There's a similar track, no pun intended, taken where the railroads, the need for laborers out west was, was downright advertised. I mean, it was encouraged that these, these laborers were coming. So that's the beginning of all of this.

[Unknown]

That's correct, yeah.

So in as United States needed this cheap source of labor, as you mentioned, they look towards China, and so Chinese laborers are coming to help build transcontinental railroad. And then in 1882, that's when the US Congress passes the Chinese Exclusion act. And that's the first piece of immigration legislation that's based on race. But the US still needs a cheap form of labor. So they look to Japan and other countries. But you know, in Japan, these laborers were recruited to come over. They came over legally, but because they were non white, they weren't eligible for naturalization until much later, until 1952.

[Don Wildman]

So how are these people who are so necessary then met with resistance? Is it the same old thing of just prejudice and fear?

[Unknown]

Yeah, I think exactly. It's prejudice and fear.

It's a lot of blue collar, working class white laborers who are fearful of this cheap labor source that's competing for jobs, or at least that was the argument that they made. And so there was a lot of lobbying of elected officials to try to restrict immigration as a way to sort of counter this threat that these Japanese immigrant laborers were posing. And so in 1907, the US and Japan, they. They signed the Gentleman's Agreement, which essentially says that Japan, you know, agrees to no longer send laborers to the United States.

But there was a loophole.

Family members could still come, or if you were coming for a purpose other than, you know, to be a laborer, you could come. And so Japanese immigration continues. And that's where you start to see the formation of families, because you see more women coming over and starting communities here.

[Don Wildman]

The Gentlemen's Agreement of 1907 and what you're referring to, it's a handshake rather than a treaty and understanding, hence the Gentleman's Agreement, that this is about restricting immigration. But we understand that the people who are here, those Issei that we have first named, have the needs for their families to come over. And so that begins this real migration which is going to lead to another generation and so forth. And this begins this sort of dichotomy that inevitably every immigrant population encounters of. On one hand, you're being welcomed and you're needed. On the other hand, a certain sector of society fears and. And even hates you in some regard. This has happened to everybody who's moved to America. In the Japanese case, it's so interesting because it's a proximity question, right? You have Japan right across the ocean. So it's different than the Europeans encountering in the east, but the same old thing's happening. How large is this immigration that we're talking about in this first Issei era?

[Unknown]

That's a good question.

I don't know exactly what the population is, but I will say that while it seemed like there was this Japanese problem, quote, unquote, and that so many immigrants were coming from Japan, if you look at the numbers of Japanese immigrants in comparison with immigrants from Europe, I mean, it was a tiny percentage. And so I think it's very similar to things that you're hearing now where there's this kind of misconception that there's so many immigrants flooding our Borders. I think it's very similar. It's true that there were, you know, a significant number of Japanese coming over as immigrants in the early 20th century, but it was nothing in comparison to immigrants from other countries.

[Don Wildman]

Yeah, a very important factor is many of these people who came, came to work, they weren't planning to live here. It was because they had been asked to come in a way. I mean, it was opportunity that they were chasing and the desire to make a living. But they had every reason to think they were going home after this.

[Unknown]

Exactly. I think there are quite a few.

Immigrants who thought they would come to the United States for a short amount of time, really strike it rich, and then go back to Japan. And that wasn't reality. But it's interesting because we have a labor contract in our collection from 1899 between this Issei man and his wife with the plantation that he's working for. And it outlines just, you know, the.

Labor that they were providing, the hours.

That they were working, their pay. But what was interesting is that a portion of their salary was withheld for return passage to Japan, which sort of shows that their labor was seen as temporary. But, you know, it wasn't the case that all Japanese immigrants could return to Japan for various reasons. And so many of them did end up continuing to live in the United States.

[Don Wildman]

I have an interesting number here, Kristen. It's 1886 to 1911. 400,000 Japanese leave their homeland and go to the United States. By 1900, 24,000 or so are living in America. Not all who traveled see it as a permanent move. So you see this mass amount of people, actually only a small sector of them actually end up living here. And only 410 of these 24,000 are women. Isn't that interesting?

[Unknown]

That really is. Yeah.

[Don Wildman]

Yeah. That comes later. I mean, this is the phenomenon we're talking about are really. It's a really a labor force being imported in and all the repercussions of that happen.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I think that really just illustrates.

The point that it was sort of overblown when you think about how many.

Just remain permanently in the United States.

And.

[Don Wildman]

Yeah, yeah. And we have to understand, Hawaii at this time isn't a state. This is a set of islands in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, very easily accessible to Japanese populations. And therefore, you know, they can be going back pretty easily from there, you know, by ship in those days. But anyway, California was another matter. It was a long distance. And by that time, it becomes a very problematic process to get home to Japan. It's a lot easier to stay, especially after 1907, when there's an agreement for families to come. And that really. That's the root of this right now. This is the beginning of the settlement.

[Unknown]

Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of these.

Issei were recruited from prefectures in Japan that were known for agriculture. And so they come to states like California and they're, you know, they're working in agriculture. And so we talked about the Gentleman's Agreement being passed in 1907. Just a few years later, by 1913, California and other states in the west, they passed the Alien Land Law, which means that aliens ineligible for citizenship, which in this case are Japanese immigrants and other immigrants from Asia that they're unable to purchase land. And this is a way to really, like, hinder the economic and social mobility of these Issei Japanese immigrants who. So they're able to lease land.

But the.

The legislation becomes more stringent in the 1920s to the point where sometimes they're not even able to lease land.

[Don Wildman]

I want to understand how much of what had happened to the Chinese, and that goes back to 1882. The Chinese exclusion act is now being projected upon these Japanese. Is it really as simple as that, or are there certain issues to do with Japan that these Californians are worried about?

[Unknown]

Well, I think in the. In the early part of the 20th century that we're talking about, I think.

It really is that there's a very.

You know, hostile social climate here in California. You know, I think when we talk about the US and we talk about racism, prejudice, segregation, we think of that as being, you know, in certain parts of the country, not in the West. But I think it really illustrates that, you know, Los Angeles was a very discriminatory and, you know, racist place.

So I think it's the same forces.

That are sort of against both Chinese immigrants and Japanese immigrants at that time. But then, you know, I do think.

That geopolitics does play a role, especially.

Like, kind of leading into World War II as Japan becomes more aggressive in Asia. I think that does also have an influence over how Japanese immigrants and their descendants are sort of treated in the United States.

[Don Wildman]

Yeah, there's a big sidebar. I mean, it's the Russo Japanese War, which Japan wins. Teddy Roosevelt oversees the negotiations, and that treaty is settled. But that war has everything to do with Japan expanding its role in the world, wanting to be taken seriously globally. This begins that movement forward. But interestingly, I want to plant a seed here. So much of this pushback that happens as a result of this expansion and this prejudice and fear begins to energize a certain sector of Japan society. You know, politically, that begins this sort of militaristic attitude, doesn't it?

[Unknown]

I guess so, yeah.

And here in the United States there.

Probably were some Issei who kind of supported that as well.

[Don Wildman]

But it's the beginning of a lot that, you know, flowers later on down the road. It's really interesting and important to understand and identify what really laid the groundwork for what happens later on. When we talk about this land issue. Very few Japanese actually owned the land. I mean, it was 2%, I believe is the, is the percentage of how much land in California was owned. And yet it was so productive.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I mean, in the early part.

Of the 20th century, kind of leading up to World War II, if you.

Ate a piece of fruit or a.

Vegetable, it's very likely that a Japanese grower grew that vegetable or fruit. Japanese Americans really shaped the landscape.

They were leasing agricultural land, but as.

You say, they didn't own the land.

And what does that mean when you.

Don'T control or own the land?

That really limits your economic mobility.

There was a loophole in the alien land law.

So there were some Issei who purchased land in their American born children's names so that they could own land.

But you're right, for the most part.

Japanese Americans did not own the land.

That they were working on or the homes that they lived in either.

[Don Wildman]

Let's name this. I mean, prior to 1940, 1/3 of truck crops were coming from those farms in California. Is that a statistic you're familiar with?

[Unknown]

I believe it, yeah. I think Japanese Americans were very influential.

[Don Wildman]

Good farmers and therefore viewed probably as a threat to other farmers in the, in those communities. At the same time you have the communities building Buddhist temples and, and Japanese Christian churches are established. There's a whole, you know, now we're here, now we're living here, now we're parts of the society. And that begins very early in the 1900s. This whole process after those wives and children started to arrive.

[Unknown]

That's true. Although the Japanese American population was pretty.

Insular because of racial housing covenants redlining Japanese immigrants.

Other immigrants of color were not able to live just wherever they'd like.

They had to live in areas that.

Didn'T have these restrictions. And so that's why you have these.

Ethnic enclaves forming in places like Little Tokyo in Los Angeles, because this area.

Did not have the restrictions.

But Japanese Americans are sort of working within the community.

They're not really working Too much outside of the community. All our activities are really within the Japanese American community. They're not really part of the mainstream. And that's really because of the prejudice and racism that existed at that time.

[Don Wildman]

And violence, I would imagine. Right. There must have been lots of conflicts, right?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Don Wildman]

How did they fight back? How was this resisted? Because, you know, as far as they're concerned, they were invited here legally and encouraged to do so, had done very well. What was the upshot as far as the government's concerned?

[Unknown]

Well, you know, I think we can look at resilience during this time period. I think just the fact that they were forming these vibrant communities before the war. They were establishing the Buddhist temples, the Shinto shrines, the Boy Scout troops, the baseball leagues, you know, the continuing Japanese language education, martial arts, you know, all the cultural things that continue and really proliferate in the early 20th century, I think is a sign of resilience.

But there are cases that we can.

Point to where Japanese Americans really fought outside of their communities. So, for example, here in Los Angeles, there were five Issei doctors who felt.

The need to create a hospital for.

The community, especially because of the effects of the 1918 influenza pandemic, the fact that Japanese immigrants and other people of color didn't have the same access to health care. They wanted to create this hospital. And so in 1926, these doctors, they.

Filed incorporation papers to create the Japanese.

Hospital of Los Angeles. And they were denied by the California.

Secretary of State, saying that they violated.

The alien land law. So remember that these, you know, Issei did not have the rights and privileges of citizens, and yet they used the democratic system. They took their case to the California State Supreme Court. They won. The California Secretary of State opposed this. And the case went to the U.S. supreme Court in 1928, and the Supreme Court upheld the lower court's ruling. The doctors were victorious, and they were able to build the hospital which opened in 1929. And I think that's a real civil rights victory that we can point to and say that's really incredible how brave they were considering they didn't have the rights and privileges of citizens. So there's certain, there's examples like that. There's also the example of purchasing land in your American born children's name. I mean, I think that's a way of working the system to. To the unfair system I think that they were sort of operating in. And so I think it's those examples that really show resilience within the community.

[Don Wildman]

Sure. And so much of this happens in the realm of labor. 1920 the Hawaii laborers association is founded to push back against these sort of typical Euro American businesses who are regulating things. And this results in strikes, big organized strikes. 1900, 1906, 1909, all of these. This whole period between basically 1907 and 1923 is really when these communities are being developed. The Nisei generation is growing up. Expectations at that point, I suppose are for full citizenship. And let's get on with this. I would imagine.

[Unknown]

Well, yeah, so I'm sure you know, the Nisei generation, they're born here in the United States. They're sort of caught in between their parents culture and the culture that they were sort of born into here in the U.S. but you know, they know that as because they were born here in the United States, they have certain rights as citizens.

So I think they felt like, well.

You know, something maybe could happen to my parents because they're not citizens, but you know, we have rights and they should be protected. And that turned out to not be the case later on.

[Kristen Hayashi]

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[Don Wildman]

So at that point in 1924, something fundamental happens here. The 1924 Immigration act is passed. This is driven by largely nativist concerns of Euro American, Anglo Saxon type populations saying, enough, we're not going to deal with this anymore. We are, you know, bringing down the hammer on all this immigration. And I'm like, as I even say these words, boy does it sound familiar. You know, I mean this is the theme that, that is almost generational at this point in America where people just start to say this. And let's describe and explain exactly what the 1924 immigration act was meant to do.

[Unknown]

The 1924 immigration act was meant to halt immigration from Japan sort of indefinitely. It's very similar to the Chinese Exclusion act of 1882. It had the same effect on this ethnic group. And you know, it's all because there was the sense that there are too many immigrants like from Japan, flooding like the West Coast.

[Don Wildman]

The groups that are behind this, very supportive, the likes of which are Ku Klux Klan and those sorts of organizations are driving this whole thing under the guise of labor concerns and economic concerns is really xenophobia.

[Unknown]

Exactly. I'm glad you brought up that term xenophobia. Yeah, because I think we're hearing that a lot today in current events. And so it really echoes, you know, this time period in the 1920s, especially in 1924. But I mean, it just goes against, you know, what this country was founded on. And it touted, you know, diversity and being this refuge for immigrants. And you know, that wasn't the case when we look at the experience of Japanese immigrants.

[Don Wildman]

Right. I mean, and to be clear, what it does is forbids immigration by aliens ineligible to citizenship entirely blocks migration until 1952 when things begin to shift. That's how long this period goes on. Of course, there's something else that happens in between that time period. But after 1924, we're going to run into a lot, namely the Great Depression on our way to World War II, which is its own discussion. Of course, we're talking about. Now 30 years are going to pass. In this time, Nisei are going to have children of their own. Is this the sansei? Is that right?

[Unknown]

Yeah, there are definitely sansei who are born before the war and during the war. I think it's a lot of them are born after the war.

[Don Wildman]

And are we talking about millions of people are present now or hundreds of thousands at the most? No, not even.

[Unknown]

Right, right. So, I mean, I actually don't know what the population was in Hawaii, which had a large Japanese population, but at least like in Los Angeles county on the eve of World War II, there were 36,000 Japanese and Japanese Americans. The incarceration were. We think 125,000 Japanese Americans were affected by the forced removal and incarceration. You know, there were Japanese Americans living in other parts of the country, but they were small in comparison to the West Coast. So yeah, we're talking, you know, probably less than 200,000.

[Don Wildman]

But by 1930, half of that population is second generation, fair to say.

[Unknown]

Yeah, well, at least two thirds. Yeah.

[Don Wildman]

So they have made their homes here is my point, and been successful in what they've pursued, largely agricultural concerns, but also otherwise as well. This is what we're talking about when we get to World War II are generations of people who have been successful in their settlement and developing their lives. How much does assimilation play a role in this? Much of the culture is very different from American culture. How much do Japanese want to assimilate versus live apart?

[Unknown]

Yeah, I think for, for Issei, they really wanted their American born children to be American, but to still retain some of the culture from Japan in case they returned to Japan or just so they could converse as a family. And so Japanese language schools, you know, were proliferate in the United States because they wanted their children to be able to speak and read Japanese. However, they also wanted their children to really fit in with mainstream society. And so they encouraged activities like baseball and Boy Scouts. And from what we understand, like Boy Scouts was a very accepting organization. So a Buddhist temple could sponsor a Boy Scout troop. And I think Issei really liked the values that an activity like Scouting provided to their Children. At the same time, I think, again, they're living in this very hostile social climate. And so I think for Nisei born here in the United States, they feel this pressure. This is kind of a generalization, but I think a lot of them feel this pressure to be 200% American. And they are. They were born here in the United States to immigrant parents, but culturally, they are really American. And so while, like my grandparents, for example, were Nisei, and I'm sure Japanese may have been their first language, but. But I never heard them speak Japanese. And I think that our family and so many other Japanese American families have lost the language over the generations. And I think it's really rooted in this time period when my grandparents growing up felt like that they couldn't speak Japanese and they needed to be American.

[Don Wildman]

1930, Japanese American citizens League is formed by Nisei, swearing them an oath to the pledge and all the rest of it, but at the same time still claiming their Japanese heritage. That's the transition that's happening in the 1930s, really. And then along comes Pearl harbor and the attack on Pearl harbor, which really changes everything. How quickly we all know, you know, the upshot of this, the detention camps that are built and so forth. But I'm curious how the shift happened so quickly. That's always interested me. Here you have a whole community of people who have, I assume, made friends and relationships in communities, and yet somehow this country does a u turn on them so fast based on fear and paranoia.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I mean, that's true. I'm so glad that we set this up by starting with, you know, early immigration and just what the social climate was like, because I think it's important to talk about all the legislation that was passed between, you know, from like, the turn of the 20th century all the way to 1924, because that sets up that there was this long trajectory of discriminatory legislation that was put in place that really affected the daily lives of Japanese Americans. So while Pearl harbor had a profound impact on the community, it was part of this long history of discrimination and prejudice. It didn't just happen because of that. And we know this because on the day that Japan attacked Pearl harbor, leaders of the Japanese American community were picked up by the FBI. So how were they able to mobilize that quickly? Well, we know that they were surveilling Japanese immigrants long before Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. In our collection, we have these records that LA county kept, they're called farm survey records, where prior to Pearl harbor, county officials were going and they're visiting Japanese American operated farms throughout Southern California. And they're just asking a lot of questions about who they employ, what they're growing. And, you know, just. And there's. There's an economic argument to that, too. But. So there is this planning that happens long before Pearl Harbor. But you're right, Pearl harbor does have a profound impact. So Pearl harbor is attacked by the Japanese Imperial army on December 7, 1941. And by February of 1942, you already have leaders of the community that have been picked up, and they're held by the Department of Justice in detention centers across the U.S. but February 19, 1942, that's when President Roosevelt signs Executive Order 9066. So what this essentially does is it lays the foundation for the mass removal that's to come in a few months. But it creates an exclusionary zone on the west coast, which is where the concentration of the Japanese population was at the time, and essentially says that the US Military has the right to exclude anyone it deems necessary. So at that point, there's no mention of Japanese. But things start to happen soon after that. So soon after that, there's a curfew that's put in place. Japanese Americans couldn't leave their homes after a certain time each evening. There's also a travel restriction. And then they had to register their families. And then by the spring, that's when you start to see public notices going up that now say to all persons of Japanese ancestry and outline what they need to do, that they need to report to a civil control station by a certain date. It tells them what they need to bring with them and when they need to report. But it never states like where they're going or for how long. So this all happens really quickly. And then Japanese Americans are first sent to temporary detention centers, which the government called assembly centers. The government called this whole operation an evacuation, which made it seem like it was for their own protection. But we're very clear now to call it a forced removal, a mass removal. And then when more permanent detention centers were created, Japanese Americans were moved into those. And those were very clear to call America's concentration camps. And there were 10 of those camps that were operated by the War Relocation Authority. But, you know, in total, there were something like 75 confinement sites across the United States that detained Japanese Americans. And they were operated by the War Relocation Authority or the Department of Justice Immigration Naturalization Services or the US Army. So places like Ellis island was a detention center, angel island, operated by the Immigration Naturalization Services. But, yeah, So, I mean, this mobilization happens very quickly after Pearl Harbor.

[Don Wildman]

I'll say. It's amazing. By March, really, this is all underway. March 2, 1942. General John L. DeWitt issues instructions to all people of Japanese ancestry. What was the criteria? I mean, how did they determine that your family is going? It's pretty simple, isn't it?

[Unknown]

It's just based on geography. So you had to be in this exclusionary zone which ran down from Washington, Oregon, California, and then a part of Arizona. And again, that's where the concentration of the Japanese population was. One of my grandparents, my grandfather's family was in eastern Oregon at the time. So they were outside of the exclusionary zone. So even though they were Japanese American, they were not forced to or they weren't part of the forced removal. People living like in New York or the Midwest or, you know, they were not forced to, to move either. So it's really arbitrary. It's based on.

[Don Wildman]

Yeah, I think it's common sense. But I'm going to ask this question. What were they suspected of? Why was this necessary and what did it?

[Unknown]

So at the time it was that there was fear of sabotage and espionage, but there were no cases of sabotage or espionage. There was no due process. You know, at the time, the United States was also at war with Germany and Italy, but German and Italian immigrants were not detained en masse like Japanese Americans were. So anyway, that, that was sort of the official line.

[Don Wildman]

I'll be back with more American history after this short break.

[Kristen Hayashi]

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[Don Wildman]

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[Don Wildman]

And when you were relocated, what happens to your home, they just put a place marker for you in the society and say, when all this is over, you can resume.

[Unknown]

Yeah. So as we discussed, you know, Japanese Americans didn't. Many of them did not own their own homes. They were. They were leasing. Same thing with their businesses. You know, they were sort of leasing space for businesses, but they were given a very short amount of time to sort of wrap up their affairs just a few days. Some people, you know, had a benevolent, you know, neighbor that would sort of watch over belongings, and they were allowed to continue, like leasing their home, and they kept their belongings there. Some people stored their belongings in, like, the. The basement of a Buddhist temple or something. But, you know, very quickly they had to just really wrap up their affairs.

[Don Wildman]

What happened to all those people in Hawaii?

[Unknown]

Hawaii was put under martial law the day that Pearl harbor was attacked. And there was a sizable Japanese population in Hawaii, but there wasn't a mass removal like on the continental U.S. so there was a detention center in. On Oahu. But a lot of the leaders of the community were rounded up. So maybe if you were a Buddhist priest or you were a martial arts instructor or a Japanese language instructor or just gave a donation to a Japanese organization, you may have been on the list. But leaders of the community in Hawaii oftentimes were brought to the mainland and incarcerated at a Department of justice camp.

[Don Wildman]

I see. Let's describe these camps. Those of us who've seen the movies understand they were very simple and not easy to live in. They were formal barracks. Topaz in Utah, Minidoka in Idaho, Gila river and Poston in Arizona. Heart Mountain. These are. Now we know how many there were at the time. This had to have been so disorienting, so uprooting. Talk to me about the effect emotionally and culturally on these families that had to do this and how long they had to live there for.

[Unknown]

Right. So most of the Japanese Americans who were forcibly removed and incarcerated during World War II lived in very temperate climates on the west coast. And again, they didn't know where they were going or for how long, and so weren't really able to pack accordingly. I'm not even sure if they would have had the right clothing to fare the extremely cold winters or extremely hot summers. But these camps were in. In desolate areas of the interior of the country where the climate was very extreme. I think they had no idea where they were going. These camps held some 10,000 people and just in a few square miles. And so they were very crowded. Hastily built barracks is where they lived. And inside each barracks, it was very sparse. There was a single light bulb and a pot bellied stove and army cots, and that was it. And so I think, you know, it must have been really terrifying. Like here they were told that this was happening for their own protection. There was barbed wire enclosing the camps. There were guard towers with rifles facing inwards rather than outwards.

[Don Wildman]

Was there a general outcry from any part of the American society? How did people react?

[Unknown]

That's something we definitely try to impress upon visitors is, you know, there really weren't a lot of people that stood up for Japanese Americans at the time. The most visible presence of supporters were really the Quakers, the American Friends, who, you know, did a lot to stand in solidarity with Japanese Americans. But I think that's what's so different today. You know, today there are a lot of people that remain vulnerable, and maybe they're not enough, but there definitely are more people standing up for people who remain vulnerable. In comparison to World War II, one.

[Don Wildman]

Of the really interesting details of this is how much property during their incarceration people lost. I mean, some. I've seen a statistic, $400 million of property was lost by Japanese Americans who were incarcerated during this time period. How many people were incarcerated during this period of time?

[Unknown]

So we think it's over 125,000 were impacted by the forced removal and incarceration during World War II. And you're right, they lost so much. Yeah, there were efforts to try to reclaim some of that loss. There was an evacuations, like, claim that someone could apply for in the late 40s, but it seemed like, you know, many weren't able to really recoup their losses. And so, yeah, they lost so much. And I think that sort of leads into just what it took, you know, for Japanese Americans to restart their lives after the war and how difficult it was.

[Don Wildman]

The remarkable thing, Kristen, is that during the war, even during this period of incarceration, Nisei youth are recruited for war service, something that many did.

[Unknown]

Right, right. So in 1943, the U.S. army and government decides that they're going to create a segregated unit for Japanese American Tsunisei soldiers called the 442nd Regimental Combat Team as like an opportunity for Japanese Americans to prove their loyalty and patriotism through military service. And so they first called for volunteers out of the camps. And, you know, maybe not surprisingly, there really weren't that many who volunteered outside of America's concentration camps. I did have a great uncle who volunteered, but he was, you know, sort of in the minority. And then later they impose a draft out of the camps. And this caused, I think, a lot of conflict for Japanese American, for Nisei. And while many did comply with the draft and served in the 442nd Regimental Combat Team, I think there's a lesser known story about a group at the Heart Mountain concentration camp called the Heart Mountain Fair Play Committee. So this is a group of 63 young men who had a platform that said essentially we're willing to serve in the US army if you let our families go. And they were indicted for evading the draft. They were put on trial. It was the largest trial in all of Wyoming's history. And they didn't get a trial by jury. A judge presided over their trial and they knew they weren't going to get a fair trial because the judge greeted them as Jap boys. But they were convicted of evading the draft and the older boys were sent to Leavenworth Penitentiary and the younger ones were sent to McNeil Island Penitentiary in Washington state. And they served three year terms for evading the draft. So they were incarcerated longer than their families were. And you know, I think that story has been, is lesser known. And even within the Japanese American community, there is a stigma against the draft resisters. They were seen as, you know, not being loyal or patriotic. But I think that's starting to change. And, you know, more attention is being paid to the Heart Mountain Fairplay Committee members and people see that they were standing up for their civil rights.

[Don Wildman]

On the other hand, you want to see an incredible story of 1 Regiment. The 442nd Regiment becomes the most decorated unit of its size in US History. Tell me about this war story.

[Unknown]

Right, so the 442nd Regimental Combat Team there was the 100th Battalion, mostly from Hawaii. The 522, 522nd Artillery Battalion accompanied the 442. And then you had the Military Intelligence Service and then you had the Women's Army Corps too. But these are all comprised of Japanese American, like Nisei and the 442nd 100th Battalion. They were sent overseas to fight in the European theater. They were given some of the toughest missions because their lives were seen as more expendable. They suffered major casualties, lost so many men, but they were really successful in the missions that they were given. And so as you mentioned, they are the most decorated unit for their size and length of service in all of U.S. military history.

[Don Wildman]

Right. 18,000 individual decorations, 52 Distinguished Service Crosses, one Congressional Medal of Honor. It's a remarkable record and really stands up to any group that has ever served in the military. It reminds me of the Hellfighters of Harlem, you know, that kind of story where people serve in the US Military to prove themselves to this country and then still meet great resistance even. So, yeah.

[Unknown]

And the 522, they helped to liberate one of the satellite camps of Dachau. You know, just the irony in that. Here they were, you know, fighting for the United States, and they liberate, you know, these.

[Don Wildman]

A concentration camp.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah, they liberate a concentration. While their families were incarcerated behind barbed wire as well.

[Don Wildman]

Oh, my God. The war has been won. Japan is occupied by American forces and governed by America for years afterwards. How do Japanese Americans return to any kind of normalcy now in this country that has been through this whole thing? And how do they feel about Japan?

[Unknown]

You know, I think that this time period is so important, and we don't talk about it enough. You know, I think there's so much scholarship on the incarceration itself, and then it skips over 20 years to, like, the. The civil rights movement and then to redress all important topics. But no one talks enough about what it took for Japanese Americans to restart their lives and just how difficult it was. So the returning to the same hostile social climate that existed before World War II. Just because the United States was victorious in the war didn't mean that that prejudice and racism just magically disappeared. Issei still aren't citizens until 1952. In some cases, their assets were frozen. But the idea or this concept of the camps During World War II, the US government never meant for them to be permanent. The idea was that they were trying to move the concentration of the population away from the west coast and then disperse it widely across the United States. So as soon as someone could prove their loyalty, they had proof of employment and housing, they were able to leave. But they couldn't return to the West coast until January 2, 1945. So they had to go either to the Midwest or East Coast. So those who especially were younger, maybe had acceptance to a university or were able to find employment much easier, were able to leave relatively early. But it's the people who either are older, like older Issei, or these young families that stay in camp a really long time because they don't have the means to sort of restart their lives. They don't have something to return to. There's really fear of the outside. And so the War Relocation Authority gets really panicky because they are not meant to be this permanent organization. And they look around in 1945, and there's 70,000 people still in these camps, and they don't know what to do. So they go against their, their own objective and they decide they're going to send people back to their point of origin. And for many of them, that's California or Southern California. Some of the biggest challenges, like in la, in Los Angeles, for example, was housing. There was a huge housing shortage. There was a lot of discrimination in terms of, like, employment, and there were only certain jobs that Japanese Americans were sort of eligible for. And, you know, so it was really difficult, I think. And I think the government really left people behind because the War Relocation Authority dissolves and sort of just leaves people to sort of fend from themselves when they return after World War II.

[Don Wildman]

We've mentioned 1952 as a shift in all of this. What happened? How did they change that law that suddenly citizenship was available?

[Unknown]

Well, I think this, this has to do with a lot of Cold War politics too, because the United States was victorious and Japan quickly becomes kind of like this ally, then, you know, that's sort of like this. I think that's one of the reasons why ECA are eligible for naturalization as part of the Walter McCarran act in 1952, and why immigration is allowed to continue after that long period of no immigration from Japan.

[Don Wildman]

Yeah, people of my generation, I was born in 61. I mean, it's still kind of a strange shift in American history that Japan goes from being such an arch enemy to being such an arch ally. We are such a dependable ally. But what's lost in that conversation is still prejudice and still problems. Certainly for those decades afterwards, 50s and 60s, it takes a long, long time for this, this wound to heal.

[Unknown]

That's right. And that's something that's really important too is I think that former incarcerees, you know, didn't talk about what happened to them during World War II. They felt like there was a lot of shame, even though they didn't do anything wrong. They just wanted to look to the future. So the next generation, who, you know, many of them are either born during World War II or after, start to ask questions about, you know, wait, what happened to our family during World War II? Why was I born in a place like Wyoming? And they had no idea. But I think this next generation, the Sansa, are sort of influenced by the social movements of the 1960s, and they start to question what the government has done in the past. They're inspired by, you know, the anti war movement, the women's movement, civil rights movement and ethnic studies movement, and they start to ask these questions, and they feel that what the government did was wrong, and they want to get some kind of recourse. And so this is kind of when discussions of redress come up in the 1960s and 70s. But it's really because of the next generation who pushes for this.

[Don Wildman]

And we're talking about reparations. When does that happen? And how much are people paid? And what an effect does that have on Japanese Americans, would you say?

[Unknown]

So we talk about how. What did you need to get a formal apology from the United States government? I mean, that's a profound act by the government. So you needed political representation in Congress. So in the 1950s, that's when you start to see Japanese Americans elected to Congress. First with Senator Inouye, who was a World War II veteran. And I think in the 60s and 70s, there are like six Japanese Americans who are elected to Congress. And you need these elected officials in Congress to introduce a bill. This bill was HR442, which was a civil liberties act, which became the formal apology or redress. And then you also needed, you know, this grassroots effort of Sanse who are trying to advocate for this. So in 1980, that's when President Carter creates Crick, which is the Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians. And this is a commission that's meant to study the consequences, the reasons for and the consequences of the mass removal and incarceration. And so Crick, they decide to hold these hearings in 10 cities across the United States in 1981. And they want former incarcerees to testify about their experience. And so it's the Sansei who are really pushing Nisei and older Issei to talk about their experiences during World War II. And so many of them are doing it for the first time, and they're doing it in public. And so it's very, very powerful and emotional to hear their testimonies. But it's through these testimonies and through the commission's findings that they kind of determined the causes. And the Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians determined that the mass removal and incarceration happened because of wartime hysteria, racial prejudice, and the failure of political leadership. And, you know, you could really argue that those things remain today. And this could easily, you know, happen again. But so you have Congress members like Norman Mineta, who introduced the bill in the House of Representatives. It passes there. You have senators like Spark Matsunaga and Daniel Inoue who helped push it through the Senate. And then you needed a sign off from the President of the United States, who at the time was President Reagan, a very conservative president. So what makes him sign this bill? We're not sure, but it's possible that he sort of reflected on his World War II experience as a US army captain when he gave a speech about the role of Nisei in fighting the war. But anyway, in 1988, President Reagan signs the Civil Liberties act and that becomes the formal apology for the incarceration. And that's a profound thing. And when you read the Civil Liberties act, there's a lot of lofty language that is really important to the ideals of this country. And we need to kind of uphold our leaders to ensure that that remains for all Americans. But shortly following that, there was a push for reparations. And so essentially Congress determined that if you were a former incarceree who was still living in 1988, 1989, you were eligible for $20,000. But by that point, a lot of issei had already passed away. Their families weren't eligible for that money. But while $20,000 might sound like a significant amount of money, it wasn't in comparison to all that they had lost. But I think it's really important to reflect on that, that Congress was very clear in saying that former incarcerates had to still be living in order to be eligible for this money because they didn't want other communities to be able to ask for reparations for what the US Government had done in the past. And that's significant because now there are a number of groups who are fighting for reparations. And so this really is a current event.

[Don Wildman]

Anyone who's listening to this can easily reflect on the relevance of this conversation, the pain that was gone through the hoops that were jumped through, and apply it to modern day scenarios as well. Thank you so much. Kristen Hayashi, who is director of collections management and access and curator at the Japanese American National Museum in Los Angeles, downtown in Little Tokyo. Fantastic place to visit. Thank you so much, Kristen. Nice to meet you.

[Unknown]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Don Wildman]

Hey, thanks for listening to American History hit. You know, every week we release new episodes, two new episodes, dropping Mondays and Thursdays. All kinds of content from mysterious missing colonies to powerful political movements to some of the biggest battles across the centuries. Don't miss an episode by hitting like and follow. You help us out, which is great. But you'll also be reminded when our shows are on. And while you're at it, share it with a friend. American history hit with meat. Don Wildman so grateful for your support.

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