Episode Overview

Podcast: American History Hit
Episode: The German Spies at Pearl Harbor
Host: Don Wildman
Guests: Christine Kuhn & Mark Sciapone (authors of Family of Spies)
Date: December 8, 2025

In this gripping episode, Don Wildman sits down with Christine Kuhn and her husband Mark Sciapone, co-authors of Family of Spies, to unravel the extraordinary true story of Christine’s grandparents—high-ranking Nazis who acted as spies for the Japanese in Hawaii leading up to the attack on Pearl Harbor. The conversation delves into the family’s secret history, the intricate web of espionage, the emotional toll of uncovering such a legacy, and new insights brought forth by decades of research and recently declassified documents.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Kuhn Family’s Secret Past

• Origins in Nazi Germany
  • Otto Kuhn, Christine's grandfather, was a high-ranking Nazi, once interviewed for head of the Gestapo.
  • The whole family became enmeshed in the Nazi movement—Christine’s grandmother Friedel joined the Nazi women’s group, Aunt Ruth joined the League of German Girls, and Uncle Leopold worked for Joseph Goebbels’ propaganda office.
  • "They all got involved in it... The whole family just jumped in hook, line, and sinker, honestly." — Christine Kuhn (10:28)
• Aunt Ruth’s Affair and Jewish Heritage
  • Ruth’s affair with Goebbels complicated their situation; her mixed Jewish heritage became dangerous under Nazi law.
  • Goebbels leveraged this, sending the Kuhns to Hawaii as spies: “Goebbels had to get rid of his misdeed. So he tapped Otto on the shoulder to go to Hawaii as a spy for the Japanese because they were looking for Caucasians to put on the island.” — Christine Kuhn (11:44)

2. From Germany to Hawaii: Spies in Paradise

• Arrival and Espionage Strategy (1935 Onwards)
  • The Kuhns established a lavish lifestyle, carefully blending in as sleeper spies while gathering naval intelligence.
  • "They were supposed to go in, build trust within the community, make friends... They were involved in spying from the very be–I guess from the very beginning." — Christine Kuhn (15:32)
  • Funded covertly (the equivalent of $1–1.5 million over three years), their lifestyle eventually drew attention from authorities.
• Espionage Tactics
  • Used everyday activities (parties, socializing, running a beauty salon) as covers to extract information from military personnel and their families.
  • “Ruth, you know, fraternized with young sailors... all as a means to try and glean information from the military.” — Christine Kuhn (15:32)
  • Contacted Japanese handlers primarily through the consulate and later via master spy Takeo Yoshikawa.

3. The Mechanics and Impact of Their Spying

• Methods of Communication
  • Otto designed a signaling system to alert Japanese submarines about ship movements using sheets hung on clotheslines, coded light flashes from attic windows, and flags on a sailboat.
  • “A sheet hanging on the clothesline meant something to do with battleships... and lights from his dormer window at their house that could be seen from subs off the shore meant that battleships had cruised or carriers were coming in or so.” — Mark Sciapone (24:06)
• Significance to Pearl Harbor Attack
  • The system provided Tokyo with ship position data days before the attack; it was apparently a Plan B—likely not used in real-time, but the design itself was found among burning documents when the consulate was raided after the attack.

4. Discovery of the Family Secret

• Christine’s Personal Revelation
  • Christine first learned fragments of the truth in 1987 during a tense visit with Aunt Ruth who warned, “Don’t ask any more questions. You have good life... Don’t ask any more about your family, your grandparents, or Pearl Harbor.” — Aunt Ruth (08:17)
  • In 1994, a Hollywood screenwriter’s letter finally prompted her father’s confession, sparking decades of research.
  • “About ten minutes later, he called me back and he was sobbing uncontrollably. I’ve never seen him cry like that.” — Christine Kuhn (08:36)
• The Family Pact of Silence
  • The secret was so well-guarded that even Christine’s cousins in Germany had no idea. The story only came out after persistent investigation and eventual willingness in later years to share the trauma and history.

5. Arrest, Trial, and Aftermath

• The Immediate Aftermath of Pearl Harbor
  • The Kuhns were on the A-list of Nazi suspects to be arrested the day after Pearl Harbor. The entire family was taken to Sand Island internment camp for interrogation.
  • Otto eventually confessed, making him the only person convicted for spying related to the attack on Pearl Harbor.
• Sentencing and Exile
  • Originally sentenced to death, Otto’s punishment was commuted to 50 years’ hard labor due to legal technicalities (spying during peacetime).
  • He was eventually allowed to leave the US after the war, spending years in Ellis Island and Buenos Aires before dying in Germany in 1956.
• Consequences for Eberhard (Christine’s Father)
  • Spent months in the internment camp, was eventually released after being found uninvolved, then joined the US Army and fought in Okinawa.
  • “He knew once he walked away, he would never see them again... He just said it was not his home. America was his home.” — Christine Kuhn (35:57)

6. Personal and Historical Legacy

• Complex Family Emotions
  • Christine describes the emotional difficulty—her father’s storytelling as a deflection from darker memories, the pain of unearthing truths, and the responsibility of telling the story.
  • “To understand his history and what he went through took years to come to terms with... In the end, it really released him when he could finally bare his soul.” — Christine Kuhn (37:00)
• Digging for Truth Amid Misinformation
  • The authors had to navigate disinformation in previous books and archives, with rumors sometimes exaggerating the family’s role.
  • “It was like trying to put a puzzle together, and we were missing pieces... The national archives were, what, 800 pages?” — Christine Kuhn (42:55)
  • “It was crazy to look at the files, though, and see the actual MO from J. Edgar Hoover to his agents talking about her grandfather or President Roosevelt talking about her grandfather in a memo.” — Mark Sciapone (43:53)
• A Story for the Next Generation
  • The process of writing the book became a way to finally share the secret and preserve a critical, if painful, piece of American and family history.
  • “He thought it was an important story and that it should come out. But we didn’t really decide to write the book and release all those secrets until after he had passed.” — Christine Kuhn (38:00)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Learning the Family Secret:
  “Don’t ask any more questions. You have good life... Don’t ask any more about your family, your grandparents, or Pearl Harbor.”
  — Aunt Ruth (08:17)

• On Otto’s Experience:
  “He interviewed with Himmler and he lost a job out to Reinhard Heydrich... So Otto was well thought of and pretty high up the ranks of the Nazi party.”
  — Mark Sciapone (19:31)

• On Espionage Methods:
  “A sheet hanging on the clothesline meant something to do with battleships when they had sailed. And lights from his dormer window at their house... meant that battleships had cruised or carriers were coming in or so detailed different ship movements.”
  — Mark Sciapone (24:06)

• On Impact and Responsibility:
  “To know this man that coached my softball team and was so involved in my life, and then to turn around and in one day, you know, he’s a completely different person. But he’s not a different person. He’s still my father.”
  — Christine Kuhn (37:00)

• On the Emotional Toll:
  “It was a secret that my family kept and my dad kept. And I think in the end, it really released him when he could finally bare his soul and tell me, in our family, everything that had happened when he was growing up.”
  — Christine Kuhn (37:00)

Significant Timestamps

• 01:35 – Opening scene: Setting at Kailua Bay, foreshadowing the espionage
• 05:39 – Christine introduces the main family members involved in the spy ring
• 08:17 – Aunt Ruth’s warning to Christine during their first meeting
• 10:28 – Christine discusses the family’s deep involvement in Nazism
• 15:32 – The Kuhns’ arrival in Hawaii and their strategy as sleeper spies
• 20:24 – How the Kuhns communicated intelligence to Japanese handlers
• 22:20 – Ruth and Friedel’s beauty parlor as an espionage front
• 24:06 – Explanation of the signaling system and its mechanics
• 28:36 – Arrest and internment on Sand Island after Pearl Harbor
• 31:19 – Otto’s conviction, death sentence, and eventual commutation
• 35:49 – Eberhard’s (Christine’s father) break from the family and decision to stay American
• 37:00 – Christine on the personal challenges of learning and retelling her family’s history
• 42:55 – Challenges in separating fact from fiction and navigating archival misinformation

Conclusion

This episode provides a rare, deeply personal glimpse into one of the lesser-known yet critical espionage operations preceding the Pearl Harbor attack. By exploring the Kuhn family’s secrets through Christine Kuhn’s own journey of discovery, listeners gain not only new historical insights but also an appreciation for the complexities of family, identity, and the burden of history. The detective work required to untangle fact from misinformation is itself a testament to the enduring need for rigorous historical investigation.

Recommended for: Anyone interested in WWII, espionage, family history’s impact on personal identity, and the ongoing quest to understand America’s past.