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Lindsey Graham (5:04)

From Wondery. I'm Lindsey Graham and this is American Historytellers. Our history, your story in the summer of 1980, President Jimmy Carter faced multiple crises. That July, news broke that his younger brother Billy had been engaged in shady deal making with Libya's dictator Muammar Gaddafi. Billy was called before a Senate Judiciary Committee and accused of influence peddling. And the scandal proved a major distraction at a time when Carter was fighting desperately for the American people's approval. Meanwhile, American citizens were still being held captive in Iran, the economy continued to struggle and members of Carter's own party were gearing up to challenge his bid for re election. Ultimately, Carter would lose his 1980 re election campaign to Republican Ronald Reagan, only to embark on a remarkable post presidential career devoted to advancing peace, combating disease and promoting democracy around the world. He and his wife Rosalynn took a hands on approach to advocacy and when Carter died in late 2024 at the age of 100, he left a legacy of service that reshaped what it meant to be a former president in the modern era. This is episode three of our series on the Carter years. Homecoming. In the spring of 1980, President Jimmy Carter was still reeling from the failure of Operation Eagle Claw, the military operation to rescue American hostages in Iran which had resulted in the death of eight American service members. Nearly every day the public was reminded that more than 50American hostages were still being held captive in Tehran and many blamed the President for failing to secure their freedom. As a result, heading into the summer that year, Carter struggled to focus on his troubled re election campaign. Massachusetts Senator Ted Kennedy was challenging Carter for the Democratic Party's nomination and had won key primary races in New York, Pennsylvania and California. Meanwhile, the Maine Republican challenger, former California Governor Ronald Reagan, was shaping up to be a formidable adversary. Reagan pledged to reduce the size of the federal government and stimulate the economy. His slogan, to make America great again was picking up momentum. Worried about the Democrats chances in the race against Reagan, Vice President Walter Mondale tried to play peacemaker. He met with Kennedy and begged him to step aside and let Carter have a clean shot, telling Kennedy, this is going to get nasty. But Kennedy refused to back out, still hoping to find a way to oust Carter at the Democratic National Convention in August. Then on July 15, 1980, Carter's younger brother Billy made headlines. The New York Times revealed that Billy Carter had been doing business with Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi and had made multiple trips to Libya in 1978 and 79, negotiating an agreement to help sell crude oil. In exchange, Billy received lavish gifts and was paid $220,000, which he would later claim was only a loan. The Justice Department launched an investigation into Billy's activities and formally reprimanded him for failing to register as an agent doing business on behalf of a foreign nation. Billy quickly registered and disclosed the payments and gifts he had received, but it did nothing to quash allegations of influence peddling by the President's brother. And when the Senate launched their own investigation, President Carter was forced to confront the scandal head on. In an effort to be transparent. On August 4, a week before the Democratic Party convention, Carter held a primetime news conference to address what the press was now calling Billy Gate. Carter told reporters, I am deeply concerned that Billy has received funds from Libya and that he may be under obligation to Libya. He added that he loved his brother, but I cannot control him. But the continuing bad press of Billy Gate wasn't the only blow to Carter's campaign. Only a week later, on the eve of the Democratic National Convention, Carter gave an interview to 60 Minutes reporter Dan Rather, who flatly suggested that Carter had exhibited ineffective leadership on air. He asked Carter to honestly grade himself, and despite being coached to avoid this question, Carter sheepishly admitted he'd give himself a C on foreign policy and a C on domestic affairs. Carter's frank admission to only meager performance as a president cast a pall over the convention. But despite the bad press and family scandal on August 11, 1980, Carter managed to win the Democratic Party's nomination. A defeated Ted Kennedy begrudgingly threw his support behind Carter, declaring, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die. But the real fight was only beginning. Carter now had to face his Republican challenger, Ronald Reagan, a handsome and witty opponent who was campaigning on promises to increase military spending, cut welfare and boost the long suffering economy. All the while, American citizens were still languishing in captivity in Iran, in what was becoming less a hostage crisis and more a campaign issue. On September 22, 1980, Saddam Hussein and his Iraqi army invaded neighboring Iran, sparking a war between these two nations. As the conflict escalated, Iran was in desperate need of funding for weapons for its military. But because of the ongoing American hostage crisis, President Carter had frozen billions of dollars of Iran's assets that were held in US Banks. This gave Carter's campaign renewed hope that Iran's revolutionary leader, the Ayatollah Khamenei, might be willing to negotiate release of the hostages. Ideally, in time For Election Day. The hostages had now been held for nearly a year, and Carter was desperate to bring them home before Americans went to the polls on November 4th. But Reagan's campaign team was just as desperate to prevent what they called an October surprise. Reagan's campaign manager, William Casey, a former spy who was in line to become Reagan's CIA director, led an effort to spread false rumors to the press that Carter's team was paying the Iranians to free the hostages and that Carter was playing politics with American lives. Meanwhile, Casey's allies traveled to the Middle east and signaled that the Iranians would get a better deal for the hostages in if they waited until Reagan became president. The presidential race was growing contentious. And to have a chance at winning over Reagan, everyone in the Democratic camp knew it was crucial that Carter reassured the American public by demonstrating strength and competence. Imagine it's October 21, 1980, in Washington, D.C. you're President Jimmy Carter's chief of staff, and you've just arrived at the White House to help him prepare for next week's televised debate against Republican candidate Ronald Reagan. This is the President's first debate with Reagan, and you're worried that Carter is rusty. You need to make sure he's ready for the smooth talking, silver screen cowboy. You enter the Oval Office and find the President behind the Resolute desk, tension written all over his face. Everything okay, Mr. President? You still want to do this today? Yeah. Yeah. Let's just get on with it. All right. Take a seat on the sofa and consult your notes. So, as you know, Reagan. Well, he comes across as relaxed and always kind of smirking. We think you should focus on your posture and more than that, on staying calm. You don't think I'm calm? Well, to be honest, sir, no, I don't. I think you seem tense and angry lately. Some of that anger is showing up on tv. You talking about the Barbara Walters thing? You nod. During a recent interview with Walters, Carter was asked about his claims that Reagan was running a racist campaign by invoking states rights and even pandering to the kkk. But these comments backfired. Yeah, the press has been accusing you of running a mean campaign. We all know you were just calling out Reagan's tactics, but it seems like the public didn't like your tone. My tone? I'm simply just trying to tell the American people that racism has no place in the country. Well, sir, I obviously agree, but it's not just what you say, it's how you say it. And that's why the press has latched onto this idea that the tone of our campaign is too aggressive. Oh, you guys told me to point out the differences between me and Reagan. We did. And you should. But try to be more careful with your words, especially any ad lib comments. I'm like calling your opponent racist. He's stirring up hate using coded words like states rights. You expect me to ignore that? Well, don't ignore it, but maybe tone down the rhetoric a little. You watch the President bury his face in his hands, shaking his head. Oh, God, I'm just tired. Don't worry so much. I'll be ready for Reagan. You'll see. All right, sir. I'm sure you're right, but try to get some rest. You know, the President can be stubborn and often discards advice he doesn't like. But as you stand to leave the Oval Office, you hope your words have sunk in. The election is less than two weeks away and you're starting to worry you may be out of a job soon. On October 28, 1980, a week before the election, Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan faced off in their one and only debate. This 90 minute showdown was one of the most watched presidential debates in history. Carter's team had worried that Reagan, as a former actor, might have the advantage. He could easily memorize lines and look great in front of TV cameras. He had wit, charm, and an ability to spin out quotable one liners. Carter's aides coached the President to try to appear relaxed and confident. But it was clear from the start that Carter was tense. His chief of staff later said he looked like a coiled spring, ready to pounce. Like an overtrained boxer, too, ready for the bout. During the debate, when Carter pointed out Reagan's past opposition to Medicare, Reagan just shook his head and with an exasperated smile, said, there you go again, hinting that Carter didn't have his facts right. Then, in his closing statement, Reagan looked directly into the camera and asked Americans, are you better off than you were four years ago? It was a stinging question since many Americans were frustrated with the faltering economy and the ongoing crisis in Iran. As one voter put it, if Carter can't handle the Ayatollah, I'll take my chances with the cowboy. And in the wake of this debate, Carter's campaign faltered even more. Carter confessed to Vice President Mondale, they aren't listening to me anymore. And Mondale worried that Carter had lost all confidence. He later said, you could feel it slipping away. Then on November 2, two days before election Day, Carter attended a raucous rally in Seattle where a crowd of 36,000 people turned out to demonstrate their support during the flight back to D.C. aboard Air Force One, Carter was elated, and some of his aides thought a come from behind victory might be possible. But when Carter's pollster, Pat Cadell, got the latest numbers, Reagan had surged ahead by 10 points. Cadell called Air Force One to break the News, telling Carter, Mr. President, I'm afraid it's gone. Carter sat down, ashen faced. In only one short instant, Carter whiplashed from a moment of confidence to now believing he was hurtling toward defeat. 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Lindsey Graham (18:10)

Find out more@capitalone.com SparkCashPlus terms apply on election day, November 4, 1980, exactly a year after the hostages had been seized in Iran, Americans went to the polls to cast their votes for the next President. Jimmy Carter worried that the morning papers would be full of stories about the anniversary of the attack on the US Embassy and that the last image voters saw before going to the polls would be pictures of blindfolded American hostages. He had reason to worry. Exit polls confirmed that many voters were tired of the hostage crisis and had come to believe that Carter was not capable of bringing them. And by the end of the day, it had become clear that the election would be a rout. At 9:30pm Eastern time, Carter gave a short concession speech, congratulating Reagan and telling Americans, I promised you four years ago that I would never lie to you, so I can't stand here tonight and say it doesn't hurt. But even this speech earned Carter some criticism. Democratic candidates out west complained that conceding before polls closed in their states hurt their chances at victory. In the end, Reagan took just over 50% of the popular vote to Carter's 41%, with independent candidate John Anderson taking nearly 7%. But in the electoral vote, Carter got crushed. Reagan won 489 electoral votes to Carter's 49. Reagan also took 44 states to Carter's six. Carter was gratified to have won 83% of black voters, but shocked to have won only 36% of the white vote. And his loss hurt the entire Democratic Party. In the Senate, Republicans flipped 12 seats to gain a majority for the first time in 25 years. In the aftermath of such a devastating loss, some pundits observed that Carter's final year in office, starting when the hostages were taken in Tehran on November 4, 1979, was one of the most catastrophic years of any presidential term. Carter was embarrassed by the magnitude of his defeat, but tried to stay positive. During the final weeks of his lame duck term, he prided himself on being one of the few presidents to have avoided war and liked to point out we championed human rights. Privately, he also mused that if they had just had one more helicopter during Operation Eagle Claw, he could have successfully rescued the hostages and was certain he would have been re elected. But as it was, Carter had nothing to do but run out the clock on his first and only term, which came to a close with several legislative victories. Carter oversaw passage of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance act, which established special courts to oversee the intelligence community. He gained passage of an increase in higher education aid and expanded food stamp support for poor families. And he welcomed the creation of a new cabinet level Department of Education. Carter also helped gain passage of the Mental Health Systems act, which prioritized mental health and provided funding for transitional housing and community centers to handle issues of mental health and homelessness. Mental health had been rosalynn Carter's pet project. And at the bill signing, Carter had praised the first lady's tireless and politically skillful work. And among Carter's very last acts as president was the December 1980 signing of the Alaska National Interests Lands Conservation act, which set aside more than 157 million acres of public land for national parks and wildlife refuges. This act joined other environmental protection efforts passed during Carter's final months, including naming 39 new national park Service designations and passing the Superfund law that provided government funds to clean up toxic waste sites. Carter also closed out his presidency with an unprecedented record of judicial appointments. He appointed a total of 40 women to the federal bench, five times more than all previous presidents combined. And he appointed 57 minority judges. As Carter told reporters, I hope that history will show that I never flinched in dealing with issues that some of my predecessors postponed. But there was only so much time left for Carter as president. On January 6, 1981, Vice President Walter Mondale, in his role as head of the Senate, confirmed the Electoral College results and declared Ronald Reagan the 40th president. At age 69, Reagan became the oldest non incumbent to win a presidential election. Twelve days later, Carter gave an emotional final. He praised the inner strength of our country and the stability of our political system. At a farewell luncheon the next day, Mondale stood and toasted the Carters, saying, we told the truth. We obeyed the law, we kept the peace. But as Jimmy and Rosalind prepared to return to civilian life, they discovered unexpected challenges lay ahead. Imagine it's January 15, 1981. Last night, your husband gave his final Oval Office address to the nation. You and your family and staff watched in tears as he made a plea for stewardship of the planet and the preeminence of the basic rights of human beings. And today, you need to have the talk you've both been avoiding. What's next for you? One of your advisors has warned that the family business back home in Georgia is struggling. And in fact, it seems you're broke. Your husband comes into the Roosevelt Room, drops into an armchair. He looks so tired and worn down, so you try to cheer him up. You know, you should have a beer. You've earned it. You did the best you could. I'm not in the mood for a beer. There was so much more I hope to do. I know, I know. But you achieved so much. You should be proud. Over the past few days, Jimmy's been working non stop in the Oval Office, rushing to wrap up details of the latest last minute hostage negotiations. You know he's only been sleeping a few hours a night. Our dealings with Iran in the past few months have been so disappointing. I don't think we're going to get things finished before we have to move out of this place. I suppose it doesn't help that Reagan isn't interested in your advice. No, not at all. I prepared a detailed list of issues for him, but as far as I know, he didn't even read it. What does he think about the Iranians latest offer? Took me forever just to get the man on the phone. When I tried to brief him, he asked what hostages? You give him a confused and alarmed look, but then he flashes you his 100 watt smile. He's just joking. But you can tell there's still a sadness beneath his attempt at humor. Oh, Jimmy, we've got to look ahead now. Our life is going to change so much. We've got to attend business back home and. You're worried, aren't you? Our first days as regular people again, and we might be facing bankruptcy. Well, listen, we've been in tight spots before. We'll get through this. You know, we're survivors. Yes, we'll survive. But we still got so much left to do. You know, there's only a few days left here. I've asked the White House barber to come by and give you a haircut and a shave. I. I want you to look your best as you make that final walk to Marine One. I bet you're going to miss that. I think I'll miss Camp David more than the White House. Really? What about you? But when you look over at your husband, you see his eyes are closed. He's nodded off during the past few weeks. He's pushed himself to his limits. So you decide to let him rest for a moment. There's still lots of work yet to be done, but it all can wait till tomorrow. As Jimmy Carter's presidency came to a close, officials in Iran were suddenly eager to finalize negotiations for the release of American hostages. In the months since Iraq had invaded their country, the Iranians had grown desperate for cash to fund their war effort. They wanted the US to return assets that had been frozen during the hostage crisis, as well as funds that had been hidden by their former leader, the Shah. Carter sent Deputy Secretary of State Warren Christopher to Algiers to hammer out a complex series of agreements that became known as the Algiers Accords. Carter had hoped to spend his final weekend at Camp David, but instead worked two straight days in the Ophel office, conducting early morning phone calls and catching naps. On the sofa when he could. Finally, on January 19th, as Carter's presidency entered its final hours, the agreements were signed, bottles of champagne were opened, and Carter raised a glass to his staff, making a simple toast to freedom. By early the next morning, billions of dollars had been transferred from US banks back to Iran. But any hope that Carter might be able to welcome the hostages home before Reagan was sworn in had faded. There was only hours left before the inauguration. At 9am on January 20, Carter received word that two Algerian planes were taxiing on the Runway in Tehran. By noon, as Ronald Reagan took the oath of office, the hostages were still on the tarmac. Thirty minutes later, during Reagan's inaugural address, Carter learned that the plane carrying 52 hostages had safely crossed out of Iranian airspace. The 444 day ordeal was over, and though it officially ended under Reagan's watch, Carter had finalized the deal, capping more than a year of frustrating negotiations. Carter later called this period pure hell, one crisis after the other. But the moment he learned the hostages were safe was one of the happiest moments of my life. Carter announced the news at a congressional luncheon that afternoon. President Reagan offered to send Carter to Germany to greet the hostages personally. But first, Jimmy rosalynn and their 13 year old daugh daughter Amy said their emotional goodbyes to the White House and their staff. They then flew home to Georgia, where they were greeted by thousands of supporters in downtown Plains. Carter gave a heartfelt speech there, his voice shaking as he spoke about the hostages and called for a moment of silence for the men who had died in the failed rescue mission. The next morning, on January 22, 1981, Carter flew to Germany and greeted the hostages at an Air Force hospital, telling them that they were considered heroes by the American people. Ten days after their release, the former hostages were flown home to the US and given a ticker tape parade in New York City. But back home in Georgia, the Carters weren't celebrating. Upon their return In January of 1981, they found the Carter family peanut farm and related businesses were $1 million in debt. While Carter had been in the White House, his brother Billy was in charge of the family farm and business and had soon soon became clear that Billy had not been a good steward of the family enterprise. He'd also racked up legal fees fighting the investigations into his dealings with Libya. Making matters worse, Georgia had suffered three years of drought, which contributed to the company's problems. For the Carters, it seemed like their old life in Plains was just as finished as it was in Washington. But there was still work to be done and Jimmy Carter would soon realize his zeal for public service could not be suppressed. He may no longer be president, but he could still make a difference.

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Lindsey Graham (30:35)

In the spring of 1981, Jimmy and Rosalind Carter were feeling the sting of an election defeat, facing the failure of the family business and had little idea of what might come next. In order to sort their finances, Carter sold the family business, and he and Rosalind turned their attention to writing their memoirs. In 1982, just a year after their return to Georgia, Carter and Rosalind founded the Carter Center, a nonprofit outside Atlanta committed to promoting human rights and alleviating world suffering. The center would go on to launch projects in 80 countries, including one to focus on eradicating deadly diseases like mumps, malaria and guinea worm disease. Two years later, construction began nearby on the Jimmy Carter Library and Museum, which would hold 27 million pages of documents collected from Carter's four years in office. And while continuing to work on his memoir, Carter searched for other worthy causes to support. During his time as president, Carter liked to work in the wood shop at Camp David. He had become a skilled carpenter and enjoyed working with his hands, so one of his first charitable ventures post presidency was working for the Christian charity Habitat for humanity. In 1984, he and Rosalind joined a bus full of volunteers from Georgia who traveled to New York City to renovate an abandoned apartment building in Manhattan's Lower east side. After this experience, he and Rosalind decided to take on house building projects every year. And though the couple stayed engaged politically, they lived a mostly humble, simple life in an unassuming red brick ranch home in Plains, Georgia. Carter taught Sunday school at the local Baptist church and sometimes bought clothes at the dollar store. In time, he also became a prolific best selling author and a global traveler, using his influence to bring peacekeeping and human rights missions to troubled countries around the world. These humanitarian efforts on behalf of the Carter center took both Carter and Rosalind to places like Nepal, Ethiopia, Zaire, Serbia, Sudan, Ghana and Gaza. Then, during President Bill Clinton's first term in the early 1990s, North Korea began expanding its production of plutonium and the US Worried it might be developing nuclear weapons. Tension between the two nations was rising and President Clinton was considering sending in troops or dropping bombs. It was in this climate that North Korean dictator Kim Il Sung asked Carter to make a visit to his country to potentially mediate the escalating conflict with Clinton's administration. Carter alerted the White House to the request and offered to visit North Korea in a diplomatic capacity. Wary of allowing a former president to act as a sort of freelance Secretary of State, President Clinton initially rejected Carter's offer. But Vice President Al Gore intervened, convincing Clinton to let Carter visit as a private Citizen. So on June 15, 1994, Carter, Carter and Rosalind became the first people since the Korean War to cross the Demilitarized Zone from South to North Korea. Imagine it's 3am On June 16, 1994, in Pyongyang, the capital of North Korea. Jet lag has you wide awake. You're a career diplomat and former US Ambassador now working as program Director at the Carter Center. You've accompanied Carter and his wife Rosalynn to North Korea. That's just a small group with Secret Service protection and one camera team from CNN to document the trip. Later today, Carter is going to meet with North Korea's 82 year old dictator, Kim Il Sung. And though you've coordinated many of Carter's international missions before, this one by far is the most risky. As your two countries tilt toward the brink of war, you're startled by a knock on your bedroom door. You open it to find former President Carter also also wide awake and agitated emotions. You, outside. Get dressed and come with me. We need to talk can we talk here in my room? No. They may have listening devices. Let's go to the gardens. We follow Carter and two Secret Service agents down the hall out into the garden where he tells you his plan. Now, I think you should head back to South Korea and get a message to the White House. We need them to give us permission to get some real concessions from the North Koreans. I don't understand. I thought we had Clinton's approval. No, no, he approved this visit as a fact finding mission only. He told me specifically I wasn't supposed to offer or agree to any terms, but I'd like to. I want to encourage Kim to agree to a full nuclear freeze in exchange for easing sanctions. I also want to ask for the return of the remains of our American soldiers. The Korean War has been over a long time. We need those boys back on American soil. And I think I can even get Kim to agree to a summit meeting with the South Koreans. We just need Clinton to agree to reduce US Forces in the DMZ and back off on sanctions. But none of this is what we're here for. How is Clinton supposed to agree to any of this? Well, if he doesn't, we might be headed for war. He doesn't want that. Carter's mention of the remains of American soldiers reminds you that he served on a Navy sub during the Korean War. It dawned on you that Carter was never planning to come here just to gather facts, but to possibly prevent a second Korean War. But what if Clinton doesn't agree? Let me worry about that. As you walk back to your room, you can't help but think about Carter's parting words. You know the former US President well. And as much as he is a man of the people, he is also a wily politician and a stubborn man. The thought of him going off script in a hostile foreign nation like North Korea has you worried. After a meeting with North Korea's dictator, Kim il Sung, on June 16, 1994, Jimmy Carter told the CNN camera crew that accompanied him on the trip that he'd made some positive steps in his negotiations. These comments were broadcast on the cable network and viewed by millions of Americans and should have been taken as good news. But privately, President Clinton was furious that Carter had taken it upon himself to act as the administration's unsanctioned negotiator and then to make a statement about it on network television. But by that point, Clinton realized there was no going back. So the President's team took advantage of the situation and sent Carter instructions to begin discussions the next day. Carter met again with Kim, and during an eight hour cruise on the North Korean leader's yacht, he made remarkable diplomatic progress, convincing Kim to agree to all of President Clinton's conditions, as well as agree to meet with South Korean officials for arms reductions talks and to let international inspectors visit his nuclear reactor. Carter was thrilled to have played a part in avoiding a potentially deadly conflict with North Korea. But when he returned to Washington, President Clinton refused to meet with him, still furious that Carter had gone behind his back. Three weeks later, Kim Il Sung died of a sudden heart attack. But despite the unexpected demise of the North Korean leader, talks between the US and North Korea continued. And in October of 1994, the two sides met in Geneva to sign the so called Agreed Framework that restricted North Korea's nuclear ambitions. Republican critics accused Carter of appeasement, but Carter defended his efforts, later telling a reporter, I think we were on the verge of war. It might very well have been a second Korean War within which a million people or so could have been killed. So Carter was very happy with the results of his efforts in North Korea. And in the coming years he would expand his diplomacy to other regions, monitoring elections and meeting with leaders in Taiwan, Panama, South Africa, Venezuela, Sudan, Syria, Nicaragua and Zimbabwe. He also returned time and again to the Middle east where he continued the work he started with the Camp David Accords. And while continuing to work for peace, he also condemned what he saw as reckless use of Force. In 1991, when President George H.W. bush sent troops into Iraqi occupied Kuwait, Carter publicly denounced the Gulf War as unjustified. In response, President Bush and others criticized Carter for being unpatriotic and not supporting the current administration. Bush once complained about Carter's willingness to foment opposition to the policy objective of his own country. But this and other criticism never deterred Carter in his mission as he continued to be recognized for his efforts around the world. In 1999, President Clinton presented Jimmy and Rosalind with the Presidential Medal of Freedom for their work as global humanitarians. Three years later, Carter was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. The committee praised Carter's decades of untiring effort to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts, to advance democracy and human rights, and to promote economic and social development. On October 1, 2024, Jimmy Carter celebrated his 100th birthday in Georgia. Near the end of his life, Carter continued to express hope for America, saying, I would like to see our country be the most generous on earth. Jimmy Carter died on December 29, 2024, and all five living US presidents attended his state funeral in Washington. Outgoing President Joe Biden, who had known Carter for more than 50 years, praised the long lasting impacts of a humanitarian who came from a house without running water or electricity and rose to the pinnacle of power. Biden said, jimmy Carter's friendship taught me and through his life taught me that strength of character is more than title or the power we hold. It's the strength to understand that everyone should be treated with dignity and respect. From Wonder Eat this is episode three of our series on the Carter Years from American Historytellers. On the next episode, I speak with journalist Mark Bowden, author of Guests of the Ayatollah the Iran Hostage the First Battle in America's War with Militant Islam. If you like American Historytellers, you can binge all episodes early and ad free right now by joining Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. And before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey@wondery.com survey if you'd like to learn more about Jimmy Carter's presidency, we recommend the Outlier, the Unfinished Presidency of Jimmy Carter by Kai Bird, his very best Jimmy A Life by Jonathan Alter and Carter's 1995 memoir Keeping Faith. American Historytellers is hosted, edited and produced by Me, Lindsey Graham for Airship Audio editing by Christian Peraga Sound design by Molly Bach Supervising Sound designer is Matthew Filler music by Thrum. This episode is written by Neil Thompson, edited by Dorian Marina produced by Alida Ryazanski Managing Producer Desi Blaylock Senior Managing Producer Callum Plews Senior Producer Andy Herman and Executive producers are Jennifer Lauer, Beckman Marshall Louie and Aaron O'Flaherty for Wondery.

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Lindsey Graham (41:45)

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