American Scandal – West Memphis Three | No Kind of Justice | Episode 4

Host: Lindsay Graham
Date: December 16, 2025
Podcast: Wondery

Episode Overview

This episode, titled “No Kind of Justice,” traces the arduous, decades-long fight to overturn the convictions of the West Memphis Three—Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin, and Jesse Misskelley—who were imprisoned for the 1993 murder of three young boys in West Memphis, Arkansas. It explores pivotal moments: new forensic evidence, shifting suspicions onto the victims’ family members, legal setbacks, explosive recantations, groundbreaking DNA discoveries, and the eventual release of the wrongly convicted men under an Alford plea. The episode also reflects on systemic injustice, the role of public pressure, and the enduring pain for both the accused and the victims’ families.

Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. A Breakthrough in Forensic Evidence

[00:00–05:25]

• Attorney Dan Stidham, still campaigning for the West Memphis Three’s innocence, consults criminal profiler Brent Turvey about possible overlooked evidence.
• Turvey’s examination of autopsy photographs suggests unexplained injuries, including possible bite marks.
  • Turvey (to Stidham): “To my eyes, there’s no obvious ritual element here at all. In fact, it strikes me as something more reactionary. A crime done in anger.” [02:00]
  • He claims bite marks could provide the crucial forensic link to exonerate the accused.
• The defense arranges for a specialist odontologist to compare dental impressions—all three are excluded.
• This breakthrough leads to the filing of a Rule 37 petition, seeking a new hearing for Damien Echols.

2. Changing Suspicions: Family Members Under Scrutiny

[05:30–11:55]

• At Echols’ hearing, attention shifts to John Mark Byers (stepfather of victim Christopher Byers), who publicly challenges the support group but is then challenged himself.
  • Byers dodges questions about his dental records by revealing dentures but provides inconsistent explanations on their timeline.
  • His dark criminal past and erratic post-trial behavior intensify public suspicion, though no charges connect him to the murders.
• In 1999, Byers is arrested on drug charges after accidentally selling Xanax to an undercover officer, offering a moment of ironic satisfaction for the Three’s supporters but unrelated to the murder investigation.

3. Legal Challenges & Setbacks: The Rule 37 Hearing

[11:55–18:20]

• New defense team, including attorney Edward Mallett, argues for Echols’ innocence and presents the bite mark evidence in court.
• The prosecution’s expert, Dr. Harry H. Mincer, contradicts the defense:
  • Dr. Mincer: “After examining all three photographs and all the wounds, I came to the conclusion with reasonable certainty that it was not a human bite mark.” [16:19]
• The court finds the expert testimony inconclusive. Without definitive new evidence, the defense faces an uphill battle.
• Mallett pivots to arguing “ineffective assistance of counsel,” citing conflict of interest and misallocation of defense funds, but Judge Burnett denies the petition, arguing the original lawyers’ performance was constitutionally sufficient.

4. Recantations, Police Misconduct, and Media Pressure

[18:20–24:30]

• Vicki Hutchison, a crucial prosecution witness, publicly recants her testimony:
  • “And it was all lies. … I was scared. The police coached me on what to say. … They said if I didn't testify, then they would call CPS, take away my son.” [21:55]
• Hutchison’s confession of police pressure and fabricated evidence, though denied by law enforcement, adds to mounting concerns of systemic misconduct and casts new doubt on the fairness of the convictions.

5. The DNA Breakthrough & Shifting Allegiances

[24:30–29:30]

• Advances in forensic technology finally allow for new DNA testing on evidence from the scene.
• Results (2007): None of the West Memphis Three match the DNA—but hairs consistent with Terry Hobbs (stepfather to victim Stevie Branch) and his friend David Jacoby are found at the scene.
  • Victim’s mother Pam Hobbs, once convinced of the teens’ guilt, begins to doubt:
    Pam Hobbs: “In my heart, possibly.” (on her ex-husband’s possible involvement)
• John Mark Byers also comes to regret his earlier role accusing the Three and publicly apologizes.

6. Final Legal Battles and Release under the Alford Plea

[29:30–36:00]

• Judge Burnett repeatedly rejects motions for a new trial despite new DNA evidence and recantations.
• In 2010, the Arkansas Supreme Court decides the emerging evidence warrants another look and remands the case.
• Facing the likelihood of overturning the convictions, the prosecution offers a deal: the Alford plea—the Three plead guilty while maintaining innocence in exchange for immediate release.
  • Jason Baldwin is deeply conflicted but accepts the deal to save Echols, who faced imminent execution.
  • Quotes from release press conference:
    • Damien Echols: “We can still bring up new evidence and continue to try and clear our names. The difference now is that we can do it from the outside.” [32:15]
    • Jason Baldwin: “I don’t think this was justice. … From the beginning, we told nothing but the truth, that we were innocent. And they sent us to prison for the rest of our lives for it. … The only thing the state would do for us is say, hey, we’ll let you go—only if you admit guilt.” [32:40]
    • Echols (to Baldwin): “I want to say thank you. … He didn’t want to take this deal in the beginning, and I recognize that he did it almost entirely for me.” [33:30]

7. Aftermath, Reflection, and Enduring Injustice

[36:00–End]

• The episode notes enduring systemic failures:
  • None of the original law enforcement officers or prosecutors faced consequences for their roles.
  • Judge Burnett became a state senator; prosecutor John Fogelman, a judge.
  • The real killer remains unidentified. The victims’ families continue to live with loss and uncertainty.
  • In April 2024, new DNA testing is ordered, but some wounds may never heal.
• Final reflection: The West Memphis Three case “will forever be a reminder of the power and cost of fear and prejudice.”

Key Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------|:------------:| | Profiler examines crime scene evidence | 00:00–05:25 | | Suspicion shifts to John Mark Byers | 05:30–11:55 | | Defense presents bite mark evidence | 11:55–16:19 | | Prosecution’s odontologist refutes bite | 16:19–18:20 | | Ineffective counsel arguments / Denial | 18:20–20:55 | | Vicki Hutchison recants testimony | 20:55–24:30 | | New DNA points to Terry Hobbs & Jacoby | 24:30–29:30 | | Community, Byers, and Pam Hobbs shift views | 29:30–30:50 | | Appeals, Supreme Court rules for retrial | 30:50–31:50 | | Alford plea, release, press conference | 31:50–36:20 | | Reflection and legacy | 36:20–end |

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Brent Turvey on lack of ritual in the crime:
  “To my eyes, there’s no obvious ritual element here at all. In fact, it strikes me as something more reactionary. A crime done in anger.” [02:00]
• Dr. Harry H. Mincer on forensic evidence:
  “I came to the conclusion with reasonable certainty that it was not a human bite mark.” [16:19]
• Vicki Hutchison’s recantation:
  • “And it was all lies. … I was scared. The police coached me on what to say.” [21:55]
• Pam Hobbs casts doubt on her ex-husband:
  “In my heart, possibly.” [26:45]
• Jason Baldwin (on Alford plea):
  “I don’t think this was justice. … We told nothing but the truth, that we were innocent… and they sent us to prison for it. … The only thing the state would do for us is say, hey, we’ll let you go only if you admit guilt.” [32:40]
• Damien Echols (to Baldwin):
  “I want to publicly thank Jason.… He did it almost entirely for me.” [33:30]

Tone & Takeaways

The episode’s tone is gravely reflective and empathetic, echoing outrage over wrongful convictions and the cost of institutional failure. Through reenactments and direct quotes, the speakers convey frustration, sorrow, and bittersweet relief upon release. The episode evokes anger over injustice but highlights the tireless efforts of defense attorneys, journalists, and affected families who, despite enormous odds, push for truth.

Further Resources

• Book: "Devil’s Knot: The True Story of the West Memphis Three" by Mara Leveritt
• Documentary: HBO’s three-part "Paradise Lost" series