Ch. 1: The Blob Man

Summary

American Shrapnel: Episode Ch. 1 - The Blob Man

Overview

In the gripping first chapter of American Shrapnel, hosted by Alabama Media Group's esteemed journalists John Archibald and Becca Andrews, listeners are taken on a harrowing journey through one of the most intense manhunts in American history. The episode delves into the series of bombings that shook Atlanta during the 1996 Olympics, the subsequent misidentification of the suspect, and the relentless pursuit that eventually led to uncovering the true bomber, Eric Robert Rudolph. Through firsthand accounts, investigative insights, and poignant reflections, American Shrapnel paints a vivid picture of the chaos, tragedy, and resilience that defined this dark chapter in U.S. history.

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1. The Centennial Olympic Park Bombing

The episode opens with a nostalgic reflection on the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, capturing the grandeur and global significance of the event.

• David Namias reminisces: "It's hard to describe the magic of that southern summer night in 1996 when Muhammad Ali hobbled on stage to captivate the world. He struggled but lit the cauldron to open Atlanta's Centennial Olympic Games." [01:19]

However, this moment of unity and celebration is abruptly shattered by a devastating act of terrorism.

• Becca Andrews recounts: "A little after 1am On July 27, 1996, Atlanta police got a phone call, a warning. There is a bomb in Centennial park. You have 30 minutes." [02:07]

The bombing was unprecedented in scale, with a 40-pound pipe bomb detonated in a crowded park, resulting in horrific casualties.

• Becca Andrews describes the immediate aftermath: "Alice Hawthorne died instantly when a nail an inch and a half long hit her like a bullet in the head. Her 14-year-old daughter stood beside her as shrapnel ripped through Alice's body in six places." [03:09]

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2. Richard Jewell: The Misidentified Hero

In the chaos that followed the bombing, security guard Richard Jewell emerged as an unexpected figure, initially hailed as a hero for spotting the suspicious package.

• Becca Andrews explains: "Police Detective John Ennis interviewed him. We're all sorry it happened to him, but that's what we're asking you so many questions." [24:10]

However, Jewell's past and certain peculiarities led investigators and the media to suspect him falsely.

• John Archibald notes: "Jewell had some squirrely things about his past... he had been fired, I think, from a job at Piedmont College and had ended up and then kind of posed or presented himself as a cop." [08:20]

Despite being innocent, Jewell's reputation was tarnished, leading to personal and professional losses. He was later exonerated and received settlements from media outlets that wrongfully branded him as the bomber.

• Becca Andrews poignantly states: "It's a sad story. He died really young. They put a memorial to him in Centennial park near the one for Alice Hawthorne. But as investigators focused on Jewell, the real bomber slipped away." [09:38]

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3. The Elusive "Blob Man" and the Escalation of Terror

With the wrongful focus on Jewell, the actual bomber, dubbed "Blob Man" due to the indistinct image captured by surveillance, continued his spree of terror.

• John Archibald reflects on the investigation challenges: "We had like 12 or 13,000 sets of photos and videos that you had to try to piece together to figure out who was where. It was great work. Didn't actually produce too much." [10:46]

The bomber's attacks evolved, adding complexity to the manhunt.

• Becca Andrews highlights: "These bombs were evolving. Investigators were no closer to solving any of them than they were that morning in Centennial park." [11:25]

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4. Jermaine Hughes: The Unlikely Witness

A turning point in the investigation came with the testimony of Jermaine Hughes, a graduate student who became a pivotal witness in identifying the true bomber.

• Jermaine Hughes recounts the Birmingham bombing: "I saw Emily Lyons at that point. She's curled up with her, she's facing the door. She's fetal position. I mean, I could see that her legs were burnt and that her clothes had been blown off at her, at her legs." [19:42]

After the bombing, Hughes's keen observation skills led him to notice suspicious behavior that others overlooked.

• Becca Andrews narrates: "Hughes kept his distance, hoping he wouldn't be seen." [29:00]

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5. The Pursuit of Eric Robert Rudolph

Hughes's persistence paid off when he followed the bomber's trail, leading to critical discoveries that would eventually identify Eric Robert Rudolph.

• David Namias shares: "He set his bomb, which was the biggest pipe bomb the FBI had ever seen. And it had a steel plate like all his bombs did to direct the blast, and it was packed with shrapnel." [06:38]

• Mike Wisnant, the lead prosecutor, explains the significance of the evidence: "Tickle is now a Republican circuit judge... he hears Hughes, still talking on the phone, yell, that's the guy right there." [36:36]

Through meticulous investigation and Hughes's unwavering determination, the true identity of the "Blob Man" began to surface, bringing hope amidst a prolonged period of fear and uncertainty.

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6. The Lingering Impact and Reflections

As the episode concludes, the hosts reflect on the broader implications of the bombings and the enduring anger that fuels such acts of terror.

• Becca Andrews remarks: "This isn’t a story of the past. The anger that fueled it has only grown stronger today." [Podcast Description]

• John Archibald ponders the bomber's motivations: "Do I personally believe that he acted alone? No, I do not." [39:40]

These reflections serve as a sobering reminder of the complexities surrounding domestic terrorism and the societal factors that contribute to its rise.

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Conclusion

American Shrapnel's first episode masterfully intertwines investigative journalism with personal narratives, offering a comprehensive exploration of the Atlanta Olympic bombing and the subsequent manhunt for Eric Robert Rudolph. Through detailed storytelling and poignant interviews, John Archibald and Becca Andrews shed light on the human stories behind the headlines, emphasizing the profound impact such events have on individuals and communities alike. This episode sets the stage for an in-depth examination of domestic terrorism, its roots, and its enduring consequences in American society.

Notable Quotes:

• David Namias: "It was a huge pipe bomb, unprecedented 40 pounds. Detonated by a wind-up clock and built to kill hundreds." [02:56]

• Becca Andrews: "Richard Jewell was not the bomber. He really was a hero. And his reward was that he lost his job and reputation." [09:09]

• Jermaine Hughes: "I was just like, could you call the cops and tell him, like, just tell him to start, like, you know, like, just look at this area." [31:07]

• Jeff Tickle: "His appearance was very neat. His shirt was tucked in. Everything about him was very neat." [35:02]

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Production Credits:

American Shrapnel is produced by Alabama Media Group, featuring the collaborative efforts of John Archibald and Becca Andrews, with contributions from executive producer John Hammetry, engineer Chris Hoff, field producer Sarah Weitz Kodachek, and others. Special thanks are extended to individuals who provided invaluable insights and support throughout the creation of this episode.

Transcript

[John Archibald]

It's been so long.

[Becca Andrews]

How have you been?

[David Namias]

Hello?

[John Archibald]

I'm doing well, Dave.

[Becca Andrews]

Why?

[John Archibald]

Why are you talking that way?

[Becca Andrews]

Please say one for a compliment or two for a question. Yeah, this is weird.

[John Archibald]

I think I'm gonna go.

[Becca Andrews]

Talking with an automated phone tree can feel pretty ridiculous. That's why when you call Pacific Source Health Plans, you'll get a real person to answer all your important questions. Pacific Source Health Plans. This is a real person. How can I help you? Human service, not automated phone trees. Find a [e-mail] Martha listens to her favorite band in the car, gym, even sleeping.

[Chris Edson]

So when they finally went on tour.

[Becca Andrews]

Martha bundled her flight and hotel on Expedia to see them live. She saved so much she got her seat close enough to actually see and hear them.

[Chris Edson]

Sort of.

[Becca Andrews]

You were made to scream from the front row. We were made to quietly save you. More Expedia made to travel Savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected. This podcast contains some gruesome descriptions of violence. Listener discretion is advised.

[David Namias]

It's hard to describe the magic of that southern summer night in 1996 when Muhammad Ali hobbled on stage to captivate the world. He was weakened by Parkinson's, diminished in a lot of ways, but still the greatest. He struggled but lit the cauldron to open Atlanta's Centennial Olympic Games.

[Becca Andrews]

Sports Illustrated would call it one of the top moments in all of sports history.

[David Namias]

It was even bigger down here where I am. It was supposed to be a chance to welcome the world to a new south, to show what this region was and what it wasn't. The Centennial Olympic Games started with a. Well, they couldn't have started any better than they did.

[Becca Andrews]

The Games were everything Atlanta dreamed they would be. And then a few days later, the unthinkable happened. A little after 1am On July 27, 1996, Atlanta police got a phone call, a warning. There is a bomb in Centennial park. You have 30 minutes.

[David Namias]

That phone call was a lie. They would in fact get only 20 minutes as a band called Jack Mack and the Heart Attack jammed in a Centennial park par packed with people. It really happened.

[Becca Andrews]

Wow.

[David Namias]

It was a huge pipe bomb, unprecedented 40 pounds. Detonated by a wind up clock and built to kill hundreds.

[Becca Andrews]

Alice Hawthorne died instantly when a nail an inch and a half long hit her like a bullet in the head. Her 14 year old daughter stood beside her as shrapnel ripped through Alice's body in six places.

[David Namias]

111 people in that park were hurt.

[Becca Andrews]

The Games had changed. The spell was broken. Bill Clinton in the White House was quick to call it what it terrorism. Good morning. The bombing at Centennial Olympic park this.

[David Namias]

Morning was an evil act of.

[Becca Andrews]

Of terror. It was aimed at the innocent people.

[David Namias]

Who were participating in the Olympic Games.

[Becca Andrews]

And in the spirit of the Olympics, an act of cowardice that stands in sharp contrast to the courage of the Olympic athletes.

[David Namias]

It was only the beginning.

[Becca Andrews]

And that's when the bomb blast went off and it hit me and the blood was.

[David Namias]

Still on the wall.

[Becca Andrews]

It never came off. He would either be famous or infamous. I just think the son of a bitch was mean. I think he was evil. He was either gonna do something great or he was gonna do something that was just gonna shock the hell out of everybody. There's no way he was not somehow.

[Jermaine Hughes]

Assisted in his years on the run a little bit.

[John Archibald]

We were looking around for people with military training, anti government views, and we had easily, you know, a dozen suspects who fit all those things.

[David Namias]

Hi, I'm John Archibald.

[Becca Andrews]

I'm Becca Andrews. And this is American Shrapnel, the story of a homegrown serial bomber and the influences, the philosophers and preachers, the terrorists and thieves that radicalized him and God knows how many others.

[David Namias]

I have some pretty strong feelings about that time. I was a reporter in what I thought was my prime in the age of newspapers. I was a news guy, but got to cover the Olympic soccer prelims in Birmingham, Alabama, about two hours from Atlanta. I remember that bomb like a lot of people remember. 9, 11. We all know that sense of anger and heartbreak when something we think beautiful is sullied or destroyed. I was wrecked, but I had no idea how this bombing, this bomber, would come to affect my life and my work for the next decade.

[Becca Andrews]

I was five, so the Olympics couldn't compete with whatever mischief I was up to. But weirdly, what took place that morning would come to affect my life and my work. Because what happened in Atlanta wasn't just the first in a string of bombings across the South. It was not just the start of a terrorism spree that would trigger the largest manhunt in American history. It was a critical moment in the rise of anti abortion violence and the kind of Christian nationalism that's gone mainstream. I've been covering it for years now.

[David Namias]

It all started down in Atlanta with that blast in that crowded park. This is David Namias, former U.S. attorney in Atlanta and former Chief justice of the Georgia Supreme Court.

[John Archibald]

He set his bomb, which was the biggest pipe bomb the FBI had ever seen. And it Had a steel plate like all his bombs did to direct the blast, and it was packed with shrapnel. He actually put the nails end to end so that he could get more on there.

[Becca Andrews]

It could have been a lot worse. A lot more people would have died if not for dumb luck, drunk kids and a slandered security guard named Richard Jewell.

[John Archibald]

I think there were about 10,000 people in that pit area in front of the stage. And so, you know, the clear design was to shoot shrapnel kind of through a crowd of people. But between the time he left the bag and the time Richard Jewell spotted it, this group of kids who were working at the Speedo temp came by. They had been drinking and they saw the backpack. Some of them thought it might have something they could steal or some alcohol in it. And one of them kind of kicked it and it tipped over. And so it tipped on its back and the most of the shrapnel shot up instead of out. But for that, you know, you might have had a thousand people injured and 100 killed.

[Becca Andrews]

People don't even realize they could have been saved from death or dismemberment by the speedo boys.

[David Namias]

And we have to talk a little about Richard Jewell here. He was a former cop working the Olympics as a security guard. He spotted a suspicious bag and called it in. At first he was hailed as a hero, but man turned quickly.

[John Archibald]

Jewel had some squirrely things about his past. I mean, he had, had. He had been in law enforcement. He was clearly kind of a wannabe officer. He was over aggressive in places. He had been fired, I think, from a job at Piedmont College and had ended up and then kind of posed or presented himself as a cop in an incident where he was living. He had asked him questions about the tower, about whether or not, you know, it could withstand an explosion, as I recall. So there were some things that were unusual.

[Becca Andrews]

Investigators seized on all that. It reminded them of a case at the 84 Olympics. A disgruntled LA cop planted a pipe bomb so that he could be the hero that found it.

[David Namias]

But at the end of the day, Richard Jewell was not the bomber. He really was a hero. And his reward was that he lost his job and reputation. Richard Jewell, the man the FBI and.

[Becca Andrews]

The media zeroed in on as the principal suspect in the Atlanta Olympic bombing, says it's all a lie.

[David Namias]

He later ended up getting settlements from news agencies that had called him a bomber, including CNN and NBC.

[Becca Andrews]

It's a sad story. He died really young. They put A memorial to him in Centennial park near the one for Alice Hawthorne. But as investigators focused on Jewell, the real bomber slipped away.

[David Namias]

The feds started out looking for people with extremist views that might hate cops or the so called new world order. They found hundreds who fit that bill in Georgia alone. They were looking for a needle and a stack full of needles. They issued a call for photographs and videos taken in Centennial park before and during the bombing.

[John Archibald]

I think we had like 12 or 13,000 sets of photos and videos that you had to try to piece together to figure out who was where. And there was this room where they had kind of created a printed stuff out and created a 3D background, you know, where you'd get one family's pictures here, and you'd see some people in the background and then realize, you know, who are those people? And identify them from another set of pictures. It was great work. Didn't actually produce too much.

[Becca Andrews]

All that effort produced was one blurry image of a man sitting on a bench on the spot where the bomb was placed. He NASA enhanced it, and the feds estimated the man's height and weight and took note of his clothes. Cargo shorts, hiking boots with socks and a T shirt.

[David Namias]

They were pretty sure it was the bomber, but it didn't much matter. He was unrecognizable. The feds didn't know his name, so they gave him one.

[John Archibald]

We had a wanted poster that just said, you know, looking for blob man, because it was just a black blob, the Blobman.

[David Namias]

Unknown, dangerous, and still out there.

[Becca Andrews]

Things were dark, and the search was going nowhere. And then two more bombs went off. One at an abortion clinic in the Atlanta suburbs and another at a lesbian bar. Was it the same bomber?

[David Namias]

A copycat? Things were similar, but different. These bombs were evolving.

[Becca Andrews]

Investigators were no closer to solving any of them than they were that morning in Centennial park. Until.

[David Namias]

Until Birmingham. January 29, 1998. A year and a half after the Olympic 1998. Chris Edson was in grad school at UAB, the University of Alabama at Birmingham. He was newly married, studying occupational therapy, and he had a routine. Each day he dropped his wife off at the VA and parked on the hill above campus. Each day he made the trek down to class, passing the new woman, all women clinic and protesters he had come to recognize.

[Jermaine Hughes]

I mean, this was part of my routine every day. I mean, so I looked back over my shoulder, checked for traffic, when I was essentially off the intersection of 10th Avenue and 17th. And that's when the blast happened and.

[Becca Andrews]

It.

[Jermaine Hughes]

The shock of it blew my clothes back. I mean like a, like a hurricane strength wind gust. I mean it was like I was. That startled me and then all that's like time seemed to slow down at that point. Like I heard glass crashing to my left. Split second after that. So I turned and looked and the Ronald McDonald House was across the street at the time. And I guess shrapnel from the explosion had hit glass and had knocked out a window. And then immediately I looked back to.

[Becca Andrews]

The right.

[Jermaine Hughes]

Big plume of smoke rising. I mean, I knew, I mean it hit me instantly what had happened.

[Becca Andrews]

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[David Namias]

Absolutely. Birmingham is a rusty old steel town and its downtown sits in a bowl of a valley on the north side of Red Mountain where they used to dig for iron ore. On the mountain stands Vulcan, the city's symbol, the world's largest cast iron statue. He is the Roman God of the forge and he looks over the city.

[Becca Andrews]

At the foothills of Red Mountain between UAB and Vulcan is a quirky neighborhood known as Southside. Back then, it was home to several women's clinics. In 1988, the Anti Abortion group Operation Rescue targeted Birmingham for protest. Greg Garrison covered years of conflict as a reporter for the Birmingham News. It was hundreds of arrests and it took hundreds of police officers to handle it. So it's a huge story.

[David Namias]

There were a cadre of people who picketed every day.

[Becca Andrews]

They would be. Sometimes they rotated, sometimes they would be at Summit, sometimes they would be at New Woman, All Woman.

[David Namias]

The owner of the New Woman All Women clinic was Diane Derzis, who became the local face of abortion rights and a lightning rod.

[Becca Andrews]

They had picketed us, they had gone to doctors homes, they'd sent things in the mail. They'd, you know, we were going to die. We should die for killing babies. She was really tough as nails. She was, she was really a tough lady. The anti abortion protesters called her Dragon Lady. You know, that was her nickname.

[David Namias]

And yet they kind of had this.

[Becca Andrews]

Almost friendly rapport, but it was like.

[John Archibald]

Poison rhetoric all the time.

[Becca Andrews]

You know, they would say mean things to her and she would say mean things right back. So there was always that tension going on between her and the protesters. And yet she knew them all. They all knew her. Derzis was out of town the morning of January 29, but the clinic was preparing to open as usual.

[David Namias]

A regular protester named Menzer Chadwick was already there by 7:30. He said hi to Robert Sandy Sanderson, an off duty police officer making rounds as the security guard Chadwick saw nurse Emily Lyons arrive, though he didn't know her by name. A regular day, a routine. Remember this is when Edson walked by on his way to class.

[Jermaine Hughes]

Just froze. Like, you know, you never, you never really know what you're gonna do in a situation like that until you're in a situation like that. And I just froze. I mean I just stood there and had no idea what to do. And then a few seconds later someone, I mean seconds, I mean it could have been almost instantly, but there was someone running down the hill, 17th street saying call 91 1. And that kind of jogged me out of the whole thing. I didn't have a cell phone at the time. I was like, oh yeah, that's always the first step. Call 91 1. So it's like I can at least sound the alarm for that. So I, I ran around screaming, you know, call 91 1. And I don't even know who I was saying it to or I mean anybody that would listen.

[David Namias]

He watched a protester, probably Chadwick, pack up his placards and go. He remembers things he'd like to forget.

[Jermaine Hughes]

It's hard to describe bewilderment, shock. And that's when really the, it started to fully set in. I saw Emily Lyons at that point. She's curled up with her, she's facing the door. So her back was to the street. She's fetal position. I mean I could see that her legs were burnt and that her clothes had been blown off at her, at her legs. And I realized like the debris, like part of the debris was clothing like blown into like almost like confetti everywhere mixed in with, you know, rock and dirt and metal.

[Becca Andrews]

We don't mean to be grizzly. And neither does Edson. He describes things that disturb him even a quarter of a century later. But it's important to know how horrific and indiscriminate these bombs could be.

[Jermaine Hughes]

And then I, I, I saw Sandy Sanderson. I mean, his, it was, it was gruesome. I mean, he had, I, I couldn't, it took me a second to realize it was, it was a person and I didn't know, I couldn't tell if it was a man or a woman. I mean, like chest seeping, chest wounds. Like, his face was just like unrecognizable bloody mess.

[Becca Andrews]

And.

[Jermaine Hughes]

At some point he sat up too and spewed up blood. He didn't, he did not, I, you know, I, he did not appear to die to me right away or, I mean, it was almost instant. I mean, I don't know. He, he sat up and I, I, I turned away.

[Becca Andrews]

Obviously, you're still very affected by this.

[Jermaine Hughes]

Yeah.

[Becca Andrews]

Sorry.

[Jermaine Hughes]

Yeah, no, it's all right. I feel like it's important. Otherwise, you know, otherwise I wouldn't be here.

[Becca Andrews]

But.

[David Namias]

Edson can describe what happened after the blast, but what happened before? How did it get there?

[Becca Andrews]

The bomb we now know was hidden in monkey grass near the clinic door. It was built in a tackle box and camouflaged with plastic leaves, but it still caught Sanderson's attention. Darzas and Scott Morrow, then the head of clinic security, piece it together. The reason Sandy, he got out of.

[John Archibald]

His car is to protect Emily.

[Becca Andrews]

He did, he, he was waiting for somebody to get there. And he got out of his car.

[John Archibald]

And he walked up the sidewalk and.

[Becca Andrews]

You know, there's a side stairs there that Emily came up the side stairs. And then Sandy walked up from the front and saw the plant. She parked her car and she was walking to the door to key it in. And at that time he evidently saw the potted something that wasn't there before and leaned down with the stick. She comes in the driveway, comes up the stairs and is looking at, turning the key and looking at Sandy who's poking the bomb. But that's when the game was up. This bomb was packed with nails and directed by a sheet, sheet of steel like the Atlanta bombs to blast the waiting room of the new woman all women clinic. It was aimed at the very spot where women and families would soon arrive.

[David Namias]

Could it have been the Blobman? Maybe. But it was different from those bombs too. It didn't have a clock timer. It was detonated by remote Control, we know now that a man stood behind a tree just up the street. He watched Emily arrive. He watched Sandy walk toward the tackle box. He watched him poke at it with his stick.

[Becca Andrews]

And then that man pushed a button on a homemade remote control device. He blew them up in cold blood.

[David Namias]

They'd find bits of Sandy's uniform in the dirt for years to come. His blood stained the walls of the building until it was eventually torn down.

[Becca Andrews]

Emily Lyons was shredded beyond recognition. They'd pull shrapnel from her body for years, too.

[David Namias]

Lyons survived thanks to some amazing emergency room work at UAB and more than 50 other surgeries since. Bomb sniffing dogs searched for explosives, but the residue from the blast coated everything, sending those dogs into a frenzy.

[Becca Andrews]

Police immediately looked to the protesters. Within hours, Menzer Chadwick sat in an interview room at the Birmingham Police Department, writing his statement by hand with a pen and pad and a big magnifying glass to help him see. Police Detective John Ennis interviewed him. We're all sorry it happened to him, but that's what we go. That's where we're asking you so many questions. Questions. That's why we got to know what happened to him. He was there about two minutes. It's just like. The audio is really rough. But when Chadwick learns Sanderson is dead, he begins to cry and his closes in. He asks if Chadwick put anything in front of the clinic.

[David Namias]

The answer is unintelligible.

[Becca Andrews]

Ennis asks again, and Chadwick says, no.

[David Namias]

I'm worried about his soul.

[Becca Andrews]

Ennis, who's ready to end this interview, responds.

[David Namias]

His soul's fine.

[Becca Andrews]

It was frustrating, but it quickly became clear that Chadwick was not the bomber. Not so much because Chadwick was believable, but because something else had happened that morning. Let's go back to the moment of the explosion, to that man hiding behind a tree. He stood in the shadows and executed his victims with a push of a button. And then he slipped away.

[David Namias]

That remote trigger made this bombing different from those in Atlanta was another big difference. A young man who to this day refuses to acknowledge publicly that he is a hero.

[Becca Andrews]

Jermaine Hughes.

[David Namias]

Jermaine Hughes.

[Becca Andrews]

Today's date is 1 2998. The time now is 1024 hours. My name is Detective James Blanton. Present with me is Agent Dana Lee. Yes, sir. Atf. We're going to conduct an interview with Jermaine Hughes. He's a witness in the bombing which occurred over in the 1600 block of 10th Avenue south this morning. Mr. Hughes, this morning. Can you Tell me where you merged and what you witnessed this morning.

[Chris Edson]

Okay, what I witnessed. Suddenly there was this loud boom. I mean, it was loud and distinctive. I was inside my door washing my clothes and I heard the boom. So, you know, I was like, what was that? Looked out the window. I mean, it didn't sound like a gunshot. It sounded like a kabloom. I mean, it sounded like more distinctive than a gunshot to me.

[Becca Andrews]

Jermaine Hughes was more than a witness. He was the witness who, who changed everything. He may have single handedly prevented more bombings, more injuries, more death. Now, Hughes has not spoken publicly about this for almost a quarter century. He had not responded to multiple interview requests for this podcast. So the tape you hear is from his interviews with the police.

[David Namias]

It's remarkable. He was a UAB student washing his clothes at his dorm when the explosion occurred. He heard the blast and looked up. People were running toward the smoke that curled up from the clinic. One man was walking away.

[Becca Andrews]

Hughes described a man in a black hat with long dark hair that might have been a wig. He wore an army jacket and carried a book bag that seemed suspicious. When the man took off in the other direction without ever looking back, Hughes was sure something was wrong.

[Chris Edson]

To me, I thought it looked kind of weird because this guy, he never. I mean, it was just like he was just walking. He didn't turn around to see what happened because I knew if it was that loud on the inside, how loud it must have been on the outside.

[Becca Andrews]

A lot of people would have just wondered about that or maybe told the police. Later, Jermaine did something different upon looking out.

[Chris Edson]

And I seen him, you know, keep on walking. And so I don't know what made me do this, but I was just like, this guy looks strange. That was my first thought.

[David Namias]

Jermaine left his clothes, he left his dorm, and he followed at first on foot and then in his car, hoping against hope his leaky transmission would hold up.

[Becca Andrews]

So this part is really amazing to me. I mean, at that point I would have just said the hell with it and gone home. Convince myself I was acting crazy.

[David Namias]

But he followed the man through the neighborhood of Birmingham Southside, up the mountain by the statue of Vulcan.

[Becca Andrews]

Hughes kept his distance, hoping he wouldn't be seen.

[Chris Edson]

I don't think he saw me because it was just the way I just never really came upon him and just like trying to look at his face like that, you know, I was just like off back in the distance, like an observer, just observing, observing. He just kept on walking.

[David Namias]

It was hard. The guy Ducked behind apartments and came out looking different than he went in. He pulled clothes out of a plastic bag. He lost a wig and put on dark sunglasses. Hughes described a backpack that at times looked empty and at times looked full. Once, not for the last time, Hughes simply lost the guy. This is Mike Wisnant, who had become lead prosecutor on this case.

[Mike Wisnant]

Jeraine Hughes drives by. He sees a guy about the same size walking through the parking lot and going onto the sidewalk and going easterly direction. But he notices that he doesn't have an army jacket on any longer and his hair is shorter, but he's still got a cap on. And he's got a black backpack, but he's also got a blue bag. And he. After a moment, he realizes this is the same guy. He can tell by the way he's walking and his height and size. So by this time, Jermaine gets a little ahead of the guy. And again, fairly narrow streets. And Jermaine pulls his car over and gets out and lifts the hood like he's having car trouble.

[Chris Edson]

We looked at each other just for a second, and then he just kept on walking.

[Becca Andrews]

Hughes knew he needed to tell the cops about this. Cell phones were rare then. The world was a different place. So he tried to get help from people in the neighborhood.

[Mike Wisnant]

He sees two ladies that are coming out of their house to get in their car. And he gets out of. Out of his car, and he goes up to them and says, I need your help. I need to call the police. They're somewhat skeptical of this young man, this African American young man who's come up to them. They're Caucasian, and they say, well, we'll call the police when we get to work.

[David Namias]

It happened over and over. He got a man to roll down the window to talk to him.

[Chris Edson]

I stopped. I said, hey, man, could you stop for a second? Could you stop for a second? It's important. It's important. It was explosion over there, and I'm following this guy, and I don't know anything about it. I mean, I don't know if this is the right situation or not. But I was like, could you call the cops and tell him, like, just tell him to start, like, you know, like, just look at this area. Just in this area. He was like, I gotta go to school. I gotta go to class. Just drove off like, oh, come on now.

[David Namias]

But he kept at it. There's some static on that tape, but you can hear that. Hughes was still wired during that interview just hours after the bombing. He was pumping with adrenaline as he had been when he again hopped out to ask a woman in a blue car to call the cops.

[Chris Edson]

I, like, put my hands up, you know, so she wouldn't know I was gonna rob her. And I was like, man, can I. I mean, can I talk to you like this? And she was like, you know, slow, slowly, like.

[Becca Andrews]

I was like.

[Chris Edson]

And I told her the situation, like, as fast as I could. I mean, this building blew up and I'm following this guy. I think this guy did it. And then she was like, well, you can keep following him if you think he did. And then, I mean, I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't find him.

[Becca Andrews]

It could have ended there. It's crazy. It didn't. After all that, he'd lost the guy. The cops weren't close. He couldn't get anyone to help.

[David Namias]

He drove to the top of Red Mountain, right above the city limit sign separating Birmingham from the suburb of Homewood.

[Becca Andrews]

He stopped at a McDonald's and called the police himself. He told the dispatcher his story. As he talked on the phone, a man eating his breakfast. Hughes would later describe him as the man in the suit, began to pay attention.

[David Namias]

That man was a young law student named Jeff Tickle. He'd ordered hotcakes and sausage and a cup of coffee. And he heard Hughes, still talking on the phone, yell, that's the guy right there.

[Chris Edson]

That's the guy right there.

[Jermaine Hughes]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.

[Becca Andrews]

Now, I was looking for fun ways.

[Jermaine Hughes]

To tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun.

[Becca Andrews]

If we made $15 bills, but it.

[Jermaine Hughes]

Turns out that's very illegal.

[Becca Andrews]

So there goes my big idea for the commercial.

[Jermaine Hughes]

Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Becca Andrews]

Of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. New customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy. Taxes and fees extra. CMN. You say you'll never join the Navy, never climb Mount Fuji on a port visit or break the sound barrier. Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Learn [e-mail] America's Navy forged by the sea. Unbelievably, the man Hughes had been following was walking by the McDonald's. As Hughes was on the phone with.

[David Namias]

The cops and Jermaine's 911 call, the operator begs him to stay on the line to wait at McDonald's for a cop to show up. You can tell he's impatient until he sees that man again carrying the blue bag beneath Vulcan.

[Becca Andrews]

As Hughes frantically tried to describe the suspect Tickle, the man in the suit jumped in to help.

[David Namias]

The prosecutor, Mike Wiseman, kept a record of it.

[Mike Wisnant]

As he's on the phone, he looks out there and he sees the guy with walking down the street on the other side. And he says to the lady on the floor, he said, wait, there he is. I see the guy, he's walking down the street on the other side of the street over there. And at that time, there was an attorney there named Jeff Tickle. And he overhears the conversation and he starts trying to help Jermaine describe what the guy's wearing and what he looks like.

[David Namias]

Tickle is now a Republican circuit judge in Lee County, Alabama, home to Auburn University. He is reluctant to talk about the case. He worries that it could cause problems if his memory differs from what he told police in 1998. So we are relying here on a transcript of his statement. Then we'll have a colleague read it.

[Jeff Tickle]

All of a sudden, I heard him say, that's him, that's him. So I look and I see a white male walking across the other side of 20th street, walking smoke south on 20th Street. And he started trying to describe this fellow over the phone. And he was a little bit excited and he's a little bit tongue tied. So I kind of helped him out with the description. He had on a green and black plaid shirt that he had rolled up to his forearm. And he was wearing like a dark shirt underneath that plaid shirt that went down to his wrist and it was black. His appearance was very neat. His shirt was tucked in. Everything about him was very neat. I roll my sleeves up. I kind of wad him up. His sleeves were folded, rolled up to his forearm.

[Mike Wisnant]

And the Operative says, stay right where you are. We're sending cars to your location right now.

[Becca Andrews]

Hughes waited as long as he could bear it before he took off. And now both he and Tickle were out searching for this guy. Eventually, Tickle turned on a street by the Birmingham landmark called the Club, a sort of country club with a Sinatra vibe, known for its vistas and its orange rolls. The street seemed to run straight into the woods.

[Jeff Tickle]

And there was a truck parked near the end of the street back on the right hand side of the road facing the intersection. So I saw the front of the truck. I saw him move from the side of the truck where the woods are to the back of the truck. And I saw him open the camper up and put Something in.

[David Namias]

By this time, Tickle had heard news on the radio of the bombing and figured out why this man might be important.

[Mike Wisnant]

And he sees the camper back is open, and he sees the same guy putting stuff in the back of the camper. And he says, oh, my God, there he is.

[Becca Andrews]

He was 10ft away beside a Nissan pickup truck with a camper shell.

[Jeff Tickle]

He was looking right at me. I couldn't see his face because the camper shell blocked the window. But right as I got past the car, I was looking over my right shoulder and he was looking over his left right at me when I went by him.

[David Namias]

The cops asked if he could see his face then for a very brief.

[Jeff Tickle]

Second, because I said, oh. And I just turned straight ahead. But I did get a look at him looking at me.

[David Namias]

Tickle wrote the tag number down on his McDonald's coffee cup, a coffee cup that is now on display at the FBI office in Birmingham. The numbers matched the ones Hughes had given the police. North Carolina KND 1117.

[Becca Andrews]

Blanton, the cop who interviewed Hughes on the day of the bombing, had questions. But Hughes took him up the mountain, retracing his steps, convincing him. Then they went together to police headquarters in downtown Birmingham. I kind of didn't believe him. Thought he was just talking. So once Jermaine and I finished walking the route, I remember going to the headquarters, and it was so chaotic, and I remember it was attorneys, lawyers, and people there. And when I got up to Homicide, it was a lot of commotion going on. I said, hey, I got a guy that saw everything. Everybody just looked at me. I said, he saw it all. On January 29, 2 hours and 11 minutes after shrapnel tore through Sandy Sanderson and Emily Lyons, Detective James Blanton had another job to do. Blanton put out the alert, telling authorities to be on the lookout for a gray pickup truck with a camper top registered to a man in the North Carolina mountains. I put the BOLO out, which means be on the lookout. At 9:44am that Bolo sent me to.

[David Namias]

Murphy, North Carolina, for weeks as a reporter for the Birmingham News. The tag number was enough for us to identify the man. Be on the lookout for Eric Robert Rudolph.

[Becca Andrews]

But there was still so much that nobody knew.

[David Namias]

This season on American Shrapnel.

[Becca Andrews]

And I remember when the feds were sending a robot and through the front door, and I remember they took off running. It was stuff that, like folk, is made of. The setting could not have been more perfect for this kind of story.

[Jeff Tickle]

You're in the mountains where his people.

[Becca Andrews]

Were like run, Rudolph, run.

[Mike Wisnant]

I could count seven mountain ridge lines and there was no sign of humankind anywhere. There's 500,000 acres here, you know, we have to search all of it.

[John Archibald]

Do I personally believe that he acted alone?

[Jermaine Hughes]

No, I do not.

[Mike Wisnant]

And so everywhere around him, surrounding him, engulfing him, were these radical views that he adopted that became part and parcel.

[Becca Andrews]

Of who he became. I see Eric as sort of at the intersection of patriot militia, lifestyle of supremacist ideology and anti ability abortion zealotry. The hair on the back of my neck stood straight up and my knees knocked so hard that I was about to answer them. That's how nervous I was. Because here I am standing in front of an individual who was responsible for the 1996 Atlanta Olympic park bombings.

[David Namias]

American Shrapnel is a production of Alabama Media Group. It was written and hosted by me.

[Becca Andrews]

John Archibald and me, Becca Andrews. Our co creator and executive producer and voice actor for this episode is John Hammetry.

[David Namias]

This episode was engineered by Chris Hoff.

[Becca Andrews]

Our field producer is Sarah Weitz Kodachek and our social media producers are Caroline, Vicky Vincent and Mila Oliveira. Our logo and cover art were designed by Jack Browning.

[David Namias]

Chalan Stevens is our editor in chief. Consulting producers Dan Carson and Ashley Remkes provided valuable feedback. The song you're hearing right now is Birmingham by Beth Thornley and Rob Cairns.

[Becca Andrews]

Special thanks to David Nammias, Chris Edson, Greg Garrison, Diane Derzis, James Blanton, Scott Morrow and Mike Wisnant. Thanks also to Kathryn Osay's Champion and the Birmingham Public Library.

[David Namias]

If you like our show, please leave us a rating and review and follow us on Apple Podcasts, YouTube or your favorite podcast app.

[Becca Andrews]

Thanks for listening. Sam.