Crimes in Two Cities: The Sumpter Siblings Cold Case

Summary

---

America’s Crime Lab – “Crimes in Two Cities: The Sumpter Siblings Cold Case”

Podcast: America’s Crime Lab
Episode Date: October 1, 2025
Host: Alin Letzlesser
Producer/Co-Host: Katherine Fenollosa
Featured Guest: Shannon Hodder (Senior Assistant District Attorney, DeKalb County, Georgia)

---

Overview

This episode centers on the 1990 murders of siblings Pamela and John Sumpter in Stone Mountain, Georgia—a brutal cold case left unsolved for over thirty years. The show explores how evidence from the crime scene, particularly a decades-old rape kit, eventually intersected with modern forensic DNA technology and cross-state investigation to finally identify and convict their killer, Kenneth Perry. The episode highlights the challenges of cold case work, improvements in forensic science, and the emotional impact on victims' families.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Sumpter Siblings Crime Scene (02:13 – 08:19)

• Initial Incident: On July 15, 1990, Pamela Sumpter staggered wounded to a neighbor’s doorstep, covered in blood, stating she’d been stabbed and raped. Police responding discovered her brother John Sumpter murdered in their shared apartment.

  • Pamela's Statement: Before surgery, Pamela described her attacker as an unknown, muscular, dark-skinned man, possibly called "Al" or "Eddie," whom her brother had brought home. (03:28 – 04:49)

• Events Leading Up To Crime:

  • John and the suspect went out clubbing; Pamela declined to join and went to bed. She woke to find the man naked and armed with a knife in her bedroom before being attacked.
  • Pamela underwent emergency surgery but succumbed to her injuries two weeks later, never regaining consciousness after initial interviews. (08:04 – 09:24)

“She says the guy’s name was maybe Al or Eddie. She can’t really remember… He was dark-skinned and he was built like a bodybuilder.”
—Katherine Fenollosa [05:17]

---

The Investigation and Evidence (09:28 – 12:20)

• Crime Scene Details:

  • Police meticulously collected evidence: fingerprints from plates and doorknobs, a suspected murder weapon, and biological samples including Pamela’s rape kit. The phone lines had been cut, and the apartment was in disarray.
    • “They were able to collect the knife that was near John’s body that was the suspected murder weapon.” —Shannon Hodder [11:16]

• Forensic Limits (1990):

  • DNA databases like CODIS weren't widely available; at the time, DNA evidence could only be compared directly if police had a specific suspect.

---

Decades of Frustration & The Unsolved Case (12:20 – 19:18)

• Case Goes Cold:
  • With no viable leads, the case stagnated, and the collected rape kit went untested for decades.
  • “Without any tips or leads coming in, the case wasn’t really ever looked back at again.” —Shannon Hodder [18:56]

---

DNA Backlogs & The Turnaround (19:28 – 21:29)

• Federal Push for Testing:

  • In 2022, a federal initiative funded the testing of backlogged rape kits (Sexual Assault Kit Initiative). The DeKalb County DA’s cold case task force began reviewing cases, focusing on those (like Pamela’s) likely to have useful DNA evidence.
  • “I believe the GBI sent off over 700 rape kits, and Pamela Sumpter’s case was one of the ones that really stuck out to us.” —Shannon Hodder [20:22]

• The Rape Kit Is Tested:

  • Pamela’s kit returned a male DNA profile (from semen) — but at first, there was no match in state or national criminal databases.
  • “We had no hits whatsoever.” —Shannon Hodder [22:08]

---

Breakthrough via Genetic Genealogy (22:27 – 32:47)

• Cold Case Strategies:

  • DA Shannon Hodder saw the chance to use forensic genetic genealogy, building family trees from DNA to tease out suspects when criminal databases fail.

• Unexpected Match:

  • While uploading the DNA profile into CODIS, it matched not a person—but an unsolved 1990s Michigan sexual assault case.
    • Michigan police had questioned someone (Kenneth Perry) in that case and collected his DNA but did not prosecute. Now, with the match, investigators had both a name and a potential link.
  • “They had to go back to their archives. They told us ahead of time, listen, manage your expectations. We had a huge flood in our archives...” —Shannon Hodder [24:10]
  • After two weeks, Michigan’s file with Perry’s identity was miraculously found intact.

“I believe the GBI sent off over 700 rape kits, and Pamela Sumpter’s case was one of the ones that really stuck out to us.”
—Shannon Hodder [20:22]

• Genealogy and Evidence Converge:
  • Othram Lab built a criminal profile using genealogy, confirming the DNA belonged to Kenneth Perry’s family tree.
  • Perry’s fingerprints were matched to those found at the Sumpters’ apartment.

---

Arrest and Conviction (31:53 – 34:45)

• Arrest:

  • A stakeout led to Perry’s arrest at a restaurant; police confirmed his identity with a DNA swab.

• Court Case:

  • At trial, Perry testified with “one of the most outrageous, disgusting stories I’ve ever heard as a prosecutor,” falsely accusing the victims of assaulting him.
    • “He tried to flip the script and turn the Sumters into his attackers.” —Shannon Hodder [32:49]

• Justice and Family Impact:

  • Perry received three consecutive life terms plus 100 years. Shannon Hodder delivered the news, in person, to Pamela and John’s mother—just weeks before her 100th birthday.
    • “She honestly said she could only believe that it was the work of God, it was the hand of God delivering justice to her to make sure that she saw the person responsible convicted and tried and held accountable...” —Shannon Hodder [34:20]

---

Reflections on Cold Case Work and DNA Technology (34:45 – 37:34)

• Unresolved Motive:

  • The precise motive or backstory linking Perry to the Sumpters remains unknown. But the episode emphasizes the healing power of closure.

• Broader Lessons and Hope:

  • The hosts and guests reflect on how new genetic technology can prevent serial offending if used early.
  • “To live in a world where perpetrators are caught the first time… to prevent that second and third and fourth and fifth attack, especially in sexual crime, where they’re repetitive…”
    —Alin Letzlesser [36:02]

• The Emotional Cost of Cold Case Work:

  • Shannon Hodder describes the rollercoaster of cold case work, where decades-old evidence is often lost or destroyed, but in rare cases like this, everything aligns.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Pamela’s courage:
  “Bravery, even to have the wherewithal to do that.”
  —Alin Letzlesser, on Pamela giving her attacker’s description despite critical injuries [06:44]

• On the scale of untested rape kits:
  “It makes me angry, the fact that there are these 700 rape kits just sitting there, and that’s just at one agency...”
  —Alin Letzlesser [20:52]

• When the match came in:
  “We got a hit. It was a hit to another unsolved case in Michigan. Then I’m really excited. Now we have a potential suspect. And that really is the true goal here, to solve this case and to bring justice to the Sumpter family.”
  —Shannon Hodder [23:09]

• On telling the Sumpters’ mother:
  “She honestly said she could only believe that it was the work of God, it was the hand of God delivering justice to her…”
  —Shannon Hodder [34:20]

• On genetic genealogy’s potential:
  “When people know that even if they leave trace amounts of DNA, you’re still going to get caught.”
  —Alin Letzlesser [36:19]

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• Pamela’s assault & initial recollections: 03:28–08:19
• Crime scene details/Evidence collection: 09:28–12:20
• Case goes cold; DNA limitations in 1990s: 12:20–18:56
• 2022 backlog testing and SAKI initiative: 19:28–21:29
• DNA profile—no match in database: 21:38–22:27
• CODIS match to Michigan case: 23:01–24:10
• Genealogy and fingerprint match: 30:31–31:45
• Arrest, trial, and verdict: 31:53–34:45
• Prosecutor’s statement to victims’ mother: 34:20
• Reflections on technology and closure: 36:02–37:34

---

Tone and Style

The hosts blend investigative curiosity with deep empathy for the victims and their families. The language is candid, occasionally raw, reflecting both the horror of the crimes and the relief brought by solving them. The episode illustrates the emotional toll and triumphs of cold case investigations.

---

For new listeners:
This episode is both a moving crime story and a powerful testament to forensic science’s capacity for justice, offering both closure for the surviving family—and hope that, with modern technology, future victims will not have to wait decades for answers.

Transcript

[Alin Letzlesser]

This is an I Heart podcast.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

A life that's carefree needs hair that's worry free. Have both with Mori reduce shedding and thinning in as little as 12 weeks with clinically proven all natural MORI nourishing hair care products. Others containing sulfates, parabens and GMOs can actually weaken your hair over time. You can look great for holiday photos. Still not sure we get it. So right now purchase Mori at 50% off while it lasts and take a quiz for a custom hair care [e-mail] results can var Maury is not a substitute for medical advice. See website for more New school year, new routines and somehow your calendar is already full. When life gets hectic, Caulipower's got your back. We make the food you crave made better for you, like thin and crispy cauliflower crust pizzas, all natural chicken tenders and nostalgic pizza snacks ready in minutes in something the whole family can agree on. Cauliflower is available in freezer aisles nationwide. Visit eatcolipower.com to find a store near.

You brought to you by Progressive Insurance do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Lowes knows how to help make your home holiday ready for less. Get Select Style Selections vinyl flooring for just $1.99 per square foot and have it installed before the festivities begin. Our team can help you every step of the way. See a Lowe's Red Vest associate or visit lowe's.comholidayinstall to get started. Lowe's we help you save basic install only. Date restrictions apply. Subject to availability. Install by independent contractors. See Associate for details. Contiguous us only.

[Alin Letzlesser]

Kaleidoscope.

[Shannon Hodder]

I just remember getting the text from my investigator. I immediately pick up my phone and I was like, oh my God, what do we know? She was able to provide a description of the man because he came into their home, he ate some food, he had some drinks.

[Alin Letzlesser]

When someone commits a crime, they inevitably leave little clues of who they are at the scene. Sometimes it's a fingerprint, a speck of blood, or a drop of semen. And while police collect the evidence, a lot of times it just sits untested for decades. But now the promise of new DNA technology has some departments vowing to clear a backlog of cases, starting with the most violent. This is America's crime lab. I'm Alin Letzlesser and I'm here with producer Katherine Fenollosa.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Aylin. I want to tell you about a case from 1990. It happened in Stone mountain, Georgia, which is about a half hour east of Atlanta. On July 15, 1990. A 911 call is made a little after 4 in the morning and a neighbor calls saying that a woman has shown up at their door and she's injured, pretty severely injured. She's standing in just a blood soaked T shirt. This woman is Pamela Sumpter and she lives in a neighboring apartment. She says she's been stabbed and she's been raped.

[Alin Letzlesser]

Oh, my God.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

So the neighbors start attending to her, trying to stop the bleeding. The police arrive, and when they go to Pamela's apartment, which she shared with her brother John, they find John dead. He's lying on the floor and a couch has been placed on top of his body.

[Alin Letzlesser]

Oh.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

It'S just a brutal, brutal crime scene.

[Alin Letzlesser]

Oh my God. So he's died and she. Pamela, I mean, do we know where she was stabbed?

[Katherine Fenollosa]

She has multiple stab wounds, but before she's taken to the hospital, she's actually able to give a description of the man who attacked her to the police. What she says is that she'd never met him before. Her brother had brought him home the night before. And her brother was gay, but it wasn't like him to bring men home to their apartment. So that was odd. She says the guy's name was maybe Al or Eddie. She can't really remember. She did remember that he had said he had recently moved to the area. He was about, I don't know, 57 or 5 9. He was dark skinned and he was built like a bodybuilder. Like, sort of very, like big muscles, a thick build.

[Alin Letzlesser]

Huh. Somehow, the way you're telling me this case, I feel like I have my little Sherlock cap on. I'm ready to solve this case because this is. This is horrible.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Oh, it's horrible.

[Alin Letzlesser]

Also, it's really good that they were able to talk to Pamela right away because it's so critical to talk to the victim and get as much information as you can because that's your best bet.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Well, and it's amazing that Pamela, considering her injuries, is even able to like have a clear head and remember these details and share them.

[Alin Letzlesser]

Bravery even to have the wherewithal to do that.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Exactly. And so she's able to tell police that this guy Al or Eddie, had come home with her brother. They had had some drinks and ate some food at the apartment. And then her brother John and the man decide to head out for the night. And they say they're going to drive around Atlanta, maybe hit up some clubs. And they invite Pamela to come with them, but she says, no, you guys go. I need to get up early for work. So she stays home. The men leave, and Pamela stays up a little bit. She's sitting on the couch watching TV when her brother and this guy return. It's been maybe a couple hours, and it's about 11 o' clock at night. The three of them talk for a little bit, but there's something about this guy that makes Pamela uncomfortable. And she can't put her finger on it, but she just feels really uneasy around him. So she excuses herself and she says she's going to bed. And her bedroom is on the second floor of the apartment. So she goes upstairs and she leaves John and this guy downstairs in the living room in front of the tv.

[Alin Letzlesser]

Okay.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

So Pamela goes upstairs to go to bed. And at some point, we don't know exactly what time, but Pamela wakes up to find this man standing completely naked over her bed. He's holding a knife in his hand.

[Alin Letzlesser]

Oh, my God.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Pamela is obviously completely startled and confused. And she asks the man, where is my brother? This guy says, he's downstairs sleeping. And then this man attacks Pamela. So those are the details that she's able to tell police at this point. She's rushed to the hospital and into emergency surgery to repair the stab wounds. She has abdominal surgery. Her shoulder is dislocated. She's in a rough way. And they do a rape kit. Now, after surgery, she wakes up, she's able to talk to her family. She's able to actually talk to the police again. But then she needs to be ventilated due to the extensiveness of her injuries, and she never regains consciousness. So Pamela dies two weeks later in the hospital.

[Alin Letzlesser]

No. That's so sad.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

The night of the attack, the police actually spend about six hours in Pamela and John's apartment collecting evidence and just examining the whole crime scene. And I was curious about what they found, so I called Shannon Hodder. She's a senior assistant district attorney at the DeKalb County DA's office.

[Shannon Hodder]

As detectives started working their way through the home, what they found was a really, really awful scene. The phone lines had been cut throughout the home. They found Pamela's bedroom in disarray. Blood soaked sheets, blood on her bedroom floor. John had also been stabbed. And the sofa in the living room had been placed over his body, so it was covering his head and upper torso. So they had to remove the sofa off of his body.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

It's really haunting. I mean, there's blood everywhere.

[Alin Letzlesser]

That sounds horrific. And it also sounds like there's a lot of evidence for detectives to collect.

[Shannon Hodder]

The investigators, I mean, even back then, did a tremendous job. They collected the sheets from Pamela's bed. They collected biological samples from suspected blood in the kitchen.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

There's definitely signs that, as Pamela said, that they had had dinner. And the dishes have not been washed yet. They're able to take fingerprints from the plates. They also dust the bathroom doorknob, and they're able to get fingerprints from that.

[Shannon Hodder]

They were able to collect the knife that was near John's body that was the suspected murder weapon. They took hundreds of pictures. They just spent a lot of time meticulously going through this scene to try to collect or retain anything that might lead to the identity of this person.

[Alin Letzlesser]

This happened in 1990. So the FBI's crime database, CODIS isn't operating yet, right?

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Yeah, I don't think that was really available to states until the late 90s.

[Alin Letzlesser]

So, I mean, what options do they have for testing the evidence?

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Yeah, I was curious about that, too.

[Shannon Hodder]

What they could do in 1990 was if they were able to generate a suspect, they could do a direct comparison of that person's DNA to any biological samples from the crime scene that yielded DNA. So they would want to retain any potential samples just in case they did develop a suspect.

[Alin Letzlesser]

It's just interesting to me that when you started telling this story, I, for some reason, because I know nothing about this, immediately jumped to, I wonder if Pamela was involved and has some kind of faked injury. And I just think that's so messed up of me in a way, to immediately question the victim. I don't even know why I'm sharing that. But it's interesting how it's so easy to blame the victim so quickly. And I'm kind of noticing that in myself, even. And then she died.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Well, and I think also you can see how complicated examining a crime scene is when you don't really know who's involved and what the backstories are, that you have to put your assumptions aside in a way, right? Like, not let any judgment creep into your thought pattern and really just, like, try and focus on the, like, facts that you have in front of you. Because I mean, clearly a lot of cases, right, the prime suspect turns out to be not involved at all.

[Alin Letzlesser]

There is such a thing as coincidence too. Things can just happen. And yeah, you have to try to set the bias on the table. And also, you were saying, being an investigator in this situation, walking in, having no context, and there's blood everywhere. Two people have died, or at least one has died so far and one is severely injured. It's like, how terrifying. And you're just questioning every single person and everything that's happening.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

If you're to believe Pamela, there's another person who was in that apartment that evening who is now mia.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Let's be real. Life happens. Kids spill, pets shed and accidents are inevitable. Find a sofa that can keep [e-mail] starting at just $699. Our sofas are fully machine washable inside and out. So you can say goodbye to stains and hello to worry free living. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, they're kid proof, pet friendly and built for everyday life. Plus changeable fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space, whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment. Plus, they're earth friendly and trusted by over 200,000 happy customers. It's time to upgrade to a stress free, mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save that's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should 1. It's $15 a month.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

2.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Seriously, it's $15 a month.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

3.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

No big contracts.

4.

I use it. 5. My mom used to say, are you, are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront.

Payment of $45 for three month plan $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

6.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Now I'd like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skincare brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford. It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful Beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types. And it's designed to work as a complete skin care system. Leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's full regimen which contains contains all five of her best selling products including the Amazing Youth Activating Melon Serum. This next generation serum has the power of melon leaf stem cell technology. It's melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can get the Amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49.95. That includes a our introductory five piece system, free gifts, free shipping and a 60 day money back guarantee. All of that [e-mail].

Looking to build before next spring? Order now with Morton Buildings and get site Prep savings by October 31st. Get ahead of winter weather and save big through the end of October on select projects during Morton Buildings Winter Build Sales Event. If you need a garage, a stall barn, a storage building for an RV boat or other vehicles, a shop for your farm hobbies or car restoration projects or anything in between, take advantage of this special savings now. Morton Buildings uses quality materials and expert craftsmen with an industry leading warranty to ensure your addition is built stronger, lasts longer and looks better. We'll be working all winter long, but the building spots are limited. With offers this great, why wait? Visit MortonBuildings.com and click Get Started today. Certain restrictions may apply. Savings offer on new building purchases by October 31, 2025. Building delivery required by April 30, 2026. Contact your local Morton office for more details.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

So the police question everyone, neighbors, friends, family, and they're trying to figure out like did anybody hear anything? Did Pamela or John mention this man to any friends or family? They really can't find out much about him. They're just going on, maybe his name is Eddie or Elle. I think friends mention like oh yeah, maybe he had been at a party that Pamela and John had been to a week or two before. But even that was a little like, you know, questionable recollection. So they're kind of stuck. So it's great that they collected the DNA, but there's nothing to do with it.

[Alin Letzlesser]

Yeah, I can imagine that would have been so frustrating.

[Shannon Hodder]

So the case with no viable leads was really shelved. There were a lot of other cases coming in. The detective started working those and without any tips or leads coming in, the case wasn't really ever looked back at again.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

So this rape kit just sits untested.

[Alin Letzlesser]

I have a little glimmery feeling, though, that that rape kit is going to come into play later on.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Yes. Now we're going to jump ahead to 2022.

[Shannon Hodder]

Two things sort of happen almost simultaneously.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

So first, the federal government sets aside money for states to test rape kits, and it's through something called the Sexual Assault Kit Initiative. The goal is to clear out a backlog of untested rape kits. And then something else happens.

[Shannon Hodder]

Right around that same time, our office was putting together a cold case task force, and we were looking specifically at. At unsolved homicides here in DeKalb county that might have DNA evidence that we could use and hopefully develop a suspect.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Shannon Hodder and her team start looking through their unsolved cases.

[Shannon Hodder]

So we started with cases that involve female victims, stabbings, and sexual assaults. Because of the personal nature of those types of attacks, you are just more likely to have DNA evidence. I believe the GBI sent off over 700 rape kits, and Pamela Sumpter's case was one of the ones that really stuck out to us.

[Alin Letzlesser]

It makes me angry, the fact that there are these 700 rape kits just sitting there, and that's just at one agency, which means that when you look at the whole country, there's probably hundreds of thousands of untested kits. I mean, when you hear about rape kits, you just assume that, at the very least, they're all tested to some degree.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Yeah, I agree. And, I mean, I guess the other way to look at it is, back at the time, the only way they could test a rape kit is if they had a suspect in mind. But, I mean, thank God they didn't just toss the rape kit out at some point. It's kind of amazing that they actually kept it all these years.

[Alin Letzlesser]

That's true.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

So Pamela's rape kit fits all the criteria for testing now. And Shannon Hodder sends the kit off to a lab.

[Shannon Hodder]

A number of swabs were taken in Pamela's rape kit, but it was the vaginal swab from that rape kit that yielded the DNA profile, and it was from semen.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

But when they load that profile into the stem crime database, which is, you know, basically a database full of DNA from known criminals or previous violent crimes.

[Alin Letzlesser]

Mm.

[Shannon Hodder]

We had no hits whatsoever.

[Alin Letzlesser]

I honestly thought you were gonna say, now they have a suspect. That must have been incredibly disappointing.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Actually, she's not disappointed, so I hate.

[Shannon Hodder]

To say that it was exciting. Here we have our opportunity to deploy this new technique that has been utilized around the country to solve hundreds of cases, and we have found a case where we can apply it ourselves.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Shannon Hodder is talking about genetic genealogy. Now, since there were no hits in Georgia's crime database, she wants to use the DNA and build out a family tree. But first they have to upload the profile to CODIS to see if the.

[Alin Letzlesser]

DNA profile matches a different crime in another state.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Yeah, exactly. So the profile is submitted, and then.

[Shannon Hodder]

We got a hit. It was a hit to another unsolved case in Michigan. Then I'm really excited. Now we have a potential suspect. And that really is the true goal here, to solve this case and to bring justice to the Sumter family.

[Alin Letzlesser]

So let me get this straight. The DNA profile hits in codis. So they know that the person who raped Pamela and murdered her and her brother John is tied to another crime in Michigan, but we still don't know his identity.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Yeah. So the Michigan case was also in the early 90s. A woman was sexually assaulted, but no one was arrested in the case. However, at the time, police did question someone and they collected his DNA and then entered that into codis. And Shannon Hodder is like, wait a second, we're onto something. I mean, this is the first big break in three, 34 years.

[Shannon Hodder]

So as soon as we get that potential match notification, we immediately get in touch with their cold case department and tell them about this potential lead that we now have in both of our cases. And they get to work trying to pull this file for us. So they had to go back to their archives. They told us ahead of time, listen, manage your expectations. We had a huge flood in our archives. More than half of our old cases have been destroyed. But we will look. And about two weeks later, we get the call that they have found it. It is intact. We couldn't believe foreign.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

For a sofa upgrade, visit washablesofas.com and discover Annabe where designer style meets budget friendly prices. With sofas starting at $699, Annabe brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces, Anabe is the only machine washable sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high resilience foam lets you choose between a sink in feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus, our pet friendly stain resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality. For price, visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30 day money back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop now at washablesofas.com Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Now I'd like to introduce you to Meaningful Beauty, the famed skincare brand created by iconic supermodel Cindy Crawford. It's her secret to absolutely gorgeous skin. Meaningful Beauty makes powerful and effective skin care simple and it's loved by millions of women. It's formulated for all ages and all skin tones and types and it's designed to work as a complete skincare system leaving your skin feeling soft, smooth and nourished. I recommend starting with Cindy's full regimen which contains all five of her best selling products including the Amazing Youth Activating Melon Serum. This next generation serum has the power of melon leaf stem cell technology. Its melon leaf stem cells encapsulated for freshness and released onto the skin to support a visible reduction in the appearance of wrinkles. With thousands of glowing five star reviews, why not give it a try? Subscribe today and you can get the Amazing Meaningful Beauty system for just $49.95. That includes our introductory five piece system, free gifts, free shipping and a 60 day money back guarantee. All that available@meaningful beauty.com hey, Ryan Reynolds.

Here from Mint Mobile. Now I don't know if you've heard but Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores. That means no small talk crazy weather we're having. No it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream. Give it a [e-mail] switch upfront.

Came in a $45 for a 3 month plan, $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

See mintmobile.com looking to build before next spring? Order now with Morton Buildings and get site Prep savings by October 31st. Get ahead of winter weather and save big through the end of October on select projects during Morton Building's Winter Build Sales event. If you need a garage, a stall barn, a storage building for an rv, boat or other vehicles, a shop for your farm hobbies or car restoration projects or anything in between, take advantage of this special savings now. Morton Buildings uses quality materials and expert craftsmen with an industry leading warranty to ensure your addition is built strong, stronger, lasts longer and looks better. We'll be working all winter long but the building spots are limited. With offers this great, why wait visit mortonbuildings.com and click get Started. Today. Certain restrictions may apply. Savings offer on new building purchases by October 31, 2025. Building delivery required by April 30, 2026. Contact your local Morton office for more details.

[Alin Letzlesser]

So, Catherine, what do we know about the Michigan case?

[Katherine Fenollosa]

A woman reported that her ex boyfriend sexually assaulted her. And in the file, she gives his name and birth date.

[Alin Letzlesser]

Wait, an ex boyfriend? So that means they should have his identity?

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Yes. And back in Michigan, the police had actually brought this guy in for questioning, which is why his DNA was on file.

[Shannon Hodder]

There was a case note that they had interviewed him, that he had said it was consensual. And because it was what they said, a he said, she said kind of situation, they chose not to prosecute at that time.

[Alin Letzlesser]

Oh, my God, that's good. They have a name. Who knows how many crimes this guy has potentially committed? I mean, it sounds like he probably at least murdered two people. And the one time where someone can actually come forward and say, it's my ex boyfriend, I know exactly who he is. To not prosecute, it's just. Just think about all the other potential victims because of that.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

So it turns out that another big part of the investigation is happening simultaneously. Earlier, Shannon Hodder said she was watching other agencies solve cold cases using forensic genetic genealogy, and she wanted to try it. So while she was waiting for Michigan to go through their archives and find their old case file, she decides to reach out to David Mittleman at othram.

[Shannon Hodder]

We felt very confident.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

There's plenty of DNA.

[Shannon Hodder]

The quality was fine.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

And what we ended up doing is we built a DNA profile for the unknown contributor to this rape kit.

[Shannon Hodder]

And then after we did that, we.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Started doing forensic genetic genealogy. We then went through the process of building out family trees and developing a hypothesis.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

And at the same time, Shannon gets the name from Michigan.

[Shannon Hodder]

When we get that file, we learn that the victim in that case reported a Kenneth Perry. We found a Kenneth Perry living in Georgia. We've run his criminal history. We see that he used to live in Michigan and actually even has offenses out of Michigan. We can also place him in DeKalb County. This could be our person.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

And Othram keeps building the family tree.

[Shannon Hodder]

They did the ancestry, and they were able to say that our crime scene evidence was from the family tree of this Kenneth Perry living in Georgia. We take our known suspect now and run his fingerprints against our crime scene evidence. And we were able to develop matches to three different Layton lifts, two from a plate that was in the Kitchen at the Sumpters house and one from a bathroom doorknob in the Sumpters house. And then we knew we had our guy.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

The DA's office gets a search warrant for Kenneth Perry's DNA and an arrest warrant. And then they set off to find him.

[Shannon Hodder]

Our office then started working with the sheriff's department, who has a fugitive unit. The sheriff's department was able to get eyes on Mr. Perry at his home. They then followed him to a restaurant where he was going to have lunch with his girlfriend and I believe, her grandson.

[Alin Letzlesser]

So this is a full fledged stakeout.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Yeah. Law enforcement arrests him inside the restaurant, and since they have a search warrant for his DNA, they get a mouth swab to confirm his identity.

[Shannon Hodder]

You absolutely need to have a confirmation swab. And so you can tell a jury, you can tell a judge that this person sitting before you, we have taken their DNA, we have compared it against the evidence, and we have a match.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

And the case goes to trial.

[Shannon Hodder]

Mr. Perry chose to testify, and he told one of the most outrageous, disgusting stories I've ever heard as a prosecutor. Not only did he deny the offenses, but he tried to flip the script and turn the Sumters into his attackers. He indicated that he had been picked up by Mr. Sumpter, taken back to the Sumters house, where he was drugged and then sexually assaulted by John, his sister, and a third unknown male.

[Alin Letzlesser]

It just feels so. So icky to me that he was trying to portray the victims of his crime as perpetrators. Yeah, that just even goes beyond.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

In March of 2025, he was sentenced to three consecutive life terms, plus 100 years for raping Pamela Sumpterer and murdering her and her brother John.

[Alin Letzlesser]

But were they able to learn anything else from Kenneth or discover a motive that led to him murdering two people?

[Katherine Fenollosa]

No, they don't discover a motive. And actually, no one is even sure how they met. But Shannon Hodder was able to tell Pamela and John's mother herself that the man who did this to her children was now in prison.

[Shannon Hodder]

She honestly said she could only believe that it was the work of God, it was the hand of God delivering justice to her to make sure that she saw the person responsible convicted and tried and held accountable for what he had done to her family.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

And Aylin, their mother, was weeks away from her 100th birthday when Kenneth Perry was convicted.

[Alin Letzlesser]

It's like she was meant to know.

[Shannon Hodder]

The truth at 99. Had decided that that was never going to happen. And then one day, we show up at her doorstep. She didn't even realize we were looking into the case. It was beautiful. It was really beautiful to be able to do that for this family. I do believe that these families get stuck at that moment where they lost their loved one. And that's what I love about this technology.

[Alin Letzlesser]

It reduces that uncertainty and it allows you to figure out exactly who.

[Shannon Hodder]

Who was at that crime scene. And then you can take that piece of information and build an entire case.

[Alin Letzlesser]

And bring that certainty and closure. It sounds kind of strange to say that a crime where there's been such a horrible rape and double murder that you come to an ending where there is some hope. I mean, solving it doesn't bring back Pamela and John.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

No, but I know what you mean. And I think that's what Kristen Mittleman is saying. You can't go back in time and prevent what happened, but now maybe you can prevent it from happening again.

[Alin Letzlesser]

To live in a world where perpetrators are caught the first time and you're never going to stop people from committing crimes, but to prevent that second and third and fourth and fifth attack, especially in sexual crime, where they're repetitive, Right. When people know that even if they leave trace amounts of DNA, you're still going to get caught.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

And that makes me think of the Idaho student murders. You know, by tracking the killer with his own DNA in real time, it meant that he was arrested before he could commit another crime.

[Alin Letzlesser]

It is fascinating to think about how this technology could change the way crimes are investigated right from the start and maybe help keep cases from ever going cold.

[Shannon Hodder]

Cold case work is a series of rollercoaster emotions. You think you have DNA evidence, but when you go to DeKalb property room, it can't be located because it's so old and it's been misplaced or a witness has died.

[Katherine Fenollosa]

Just.

[Shannon Hodder]

There's so much heartache and disappointment in cold casework. But with this case, everything panned out, everything went right. And it was the most incredible experience of my career.

[Alin Letzlesser]

Next time on america's CRIME Lab.

[Shannon Hodder]

It was treated as this sort of insolvable crime. It would always be her word against his.

[Alin Letzlesser]

So many times we've identified a perpetrator.

[Shannon Hodder]

And they're a taxi driver at the airport, the barista that handed you your.

[Alin Letzlesser]

Coffee this morning, the it person that.

[Shannon Hodder]

Came to your office or your house.

[Alin Letzlesser]

It's terrifying. America's Crime Lab is produced by Ricochet Coco Punch for Kaleidoscope. Erica Lance is our story editor and sound design is by David Woje. Our producing team is Kathryn Fenollosa, Emily Forman and Jessica Alpert. Our executive producers are Kate Osborne, Mangesh Hadigadur and David and Kristen Mittleman. And from iHeart, Katrina Norville and Ally Perry. Special thanks to Connell Byrne, Will Pearson, Kerry Lee, Nikki Etor, Nathan Itoske, John Burbank and the entire team at othram. I'm Alin Lance Lesser. Thanks for listening.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Chances are you've been to the doctor recently and you probably handed over your insurance, your ID and even your Social Security number. Your doctor is just one of many places that has your personal info and if any of them accidentally expose your details, you could be at risk for identity theft. LifeLock monitors millions of data points a second. If you become a victim, they'll fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code iheart or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off. Terms apply. Thursday Night football is on, and it's only on Prime Video. This week, it's California Showdown. Division rivals lock horns when the 49ers meet the Rams.

What a great job.

Coverage begins Thursday at 7pm Eastern with football's best party, TNF tonight presented by Verizon. Not a Prime member, Not a problem. Simply sign up for a 30 day free trial. 49ers rams Thursday at 7pm Eastern only on Prime Video. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for details.

New school year, new routines, and somehow your calendar is already full. When life gets hectic, Cauliflower's got your back. We make the food you crave made better for you. Like thin and crispy cauliflower crust pizzas, all natural chicken tenders and nostalgic pizza snacks ready in minutes in something the whole family can agree on. Caulipower is available in freezer aisles nationwide. Visit eatcolipower.com to find a store near you. At Hill's Pet Nutrition, we know that pet parent guilt is real. Leaving too long, playing too little, New.

[Alin Letzlesser]

Homes, new babies, waking them up when.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

They look so comfy. Running out of patience, running out of treats, running the vacuum.

[Alin Letzlesser]

You can only do so much.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

That's why there's Hills Science led nutrition to help you give more love than humanly possible. Because you're only human.

[Alin Letzlesser]

There's Hills.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Find the right [e-mail] science does more.

[Alin Letzlesser]

This is an I Heart podcast.