One River, Two Bodies

Summary

America's Crime Lab: "One River, Two Bodies" (November 12, 2025)
Podcast by: iHeartPodcasts and Kaleidoscope
Host: Aelin Lance Lesser
Producer: Catherine Fenollosa, Emily Forman

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Overview

This gripping episode of "America’s Crime Lab" examines the chilling unsolved case of two unidentified bodies—one a toddler, the other a young man—discovered just days apart in the same river near Moss Point, Mississippi in December 1982. The story unfolds across forty years of dead-ends and renewed hope, as advances in forensic science and the persistent efforts of detectives and a DNA lab (Othram) ultimately bring long-awaited answers to two devastated families. This episode explores the investigations, the struggle for justice and dignity for forgotten victims, and the power of modern genetic genealogy to name the nameless.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Discovery of Two Bodies in Moss Point, 1982

[03:28 – 06:59]

• Initial Discovery: A truck driver spots what he believes is a woman's body floating in a river off I-10, Mississippi ([04:50]).
• First Body Found: Police find not a woman, but the body of a little girl, approximately 18 months old, blonde, later determined to have drowned. No local missing child reports are found.
  • Quote: "He thought he saw a baby doll in the water. But looking more closely, it's actually the body of a little girl... she was alive when she entered the water and that she died from drowning." – Emily Forman ([05:47])
• Second Body Discovered: Divers searching downstream find the skeletal remains of a young Black man, clothed, believed to have been dead longer than the girl.
  • Quote: "They were searching the river for a female and come across the skeletal remains of what was identified later on as a black male." – Catherine Fenollosa ([06:59])

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2. The Case of "Baby Jane"/"Delta Dawn"

[07:51 – 15:14]

• Outpouring of Interest: The public is captivated by the mystery of the unidentified toddler, nicknamed "Baby Jane" and "Delta Dawn".
• Suspicions & Theories: Witnesses report a distraught woman with a toddler seen walking barefoot on I-10; theories develop about a possible murder-suicide.
  • Quote: "I don't know if she's so distraught, like a murder suicide... or maybe there's some other murderer who followed her there." – Aelin Lance Lesser ([09:00])
• Case Goes Cold: Despite media coverage, no leads about the child's identity or that of the possible woman seen.
• Attempts at ID: Body exhumed for DNA, facial reconstruction circulated, but years pass without answers.

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3. Parallel Path: The Forgotten Young Man (Moss Point John Doe)

[17:31 – 24:18, 29:20 – 41:02]

• Neglected Victim: The young Black man's case receives little public attention or resources; remains go untested in Oklahoma due to Mississippi's lack of a forensic anthropologist.
  • Quote: "It took on the life of its own. It was almost like a cold case investigation inside of a cold case investigation." – Darren Forsagea ([03:17], [19:47])
• Personal Testimony: Detective recounts efforts to publicize the case, especially in African American communities, only to be told, "Yes, you can. You know exactly why. ...because he was Black." ([21:56])
• Technical Challenges: DNA extraction is complicated by prior chemical/heat treatment of the remains; Othram lab develops new techniques to overcome this.

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4. Breakthroughs: The DNA Revolution

[11:33 – 15:14, 23:46 – 30:36, 34:26 – 40:57]

• The Power of Othram: A stranger in New York offers to fund DNA testing for Baby Jane; her remains are driven to Othram’s lab in Texas ([17:31]).
• Genealogy in Action: Othram identifies family trees from the baby’s DNA, leading to a living relative.
  • Quote: "One day he goes and knocks on her door... As soon as they showed up at the door, she was like, please tell me you found my sister." – Catherine Fenollosa ([24:58])
• Parallel Efforts for John Doe: Persistent detective work plus new Othram methods lead to the identification of Moss Point John Doe as Gary Simpson from New Orleans.

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5. The Families: Grief, Denial, and Resolution

[29:20 – 43:51]

Alicia Heinrich and Gwendolyn Clemmons ("Baby Jane" and Her Mother)

• Identities Revealed: The little girl is Alicia Heinrich, missing alongside her mother Gwendolyn since Thanksgiving 1982; their family had searched for decades.
  • Quote: "Her sister said that Gwendolyn was a good mom and that she loved her little girl." – Emily Forman ([31:07])
• Suspect Theories: Gwendolyn’s boyfriend, former law enforcement, returns alone and gives false stories; Gwendolyn's remains are never found; no official missing persons report was ever filed.
  • Quote: "She was never reported missing, her or the baby, to local authorities. So there would have been no way they'd have been found without the help of Othram." – Sgt. Eddie Clark ([34:01])
• Ongoing Mystery: Gwendolyn Clemmons is still an active missing persons case.

Gary Simpson ("Moss Point John Doe")

• Gary’s Background: From a tight-knit New Orleans family, Gary disappeared at age 20 under suspicious circumstances. Family reported him missing and searched for years.
  • Quote: "He was a mama’s boy... My mom went to the police station and filled out a missing report... we just never had a conversation [about him]." – Tanya Taylor ([37:09], [38:04])
• Family’s Grief: Gary’s mother died never knowing his fate.
• Final Homecoming: Detective and police friends fund Gary’s cremation so his ashes can rest with his mother in New Orleans.
  • Quote: "He was with us while we drank coffee and we ate breakfast. We talked about Gary, and each one of them put their hand on the urn... It was almost like I’m bringing my brother home." – Lt. Forsagea ([41:58])

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the disparity of attention for victims:
  "She got so much more attention. Unfortunately, I think that happens too often in our society." – Aelin Lance Lesser ([18:04])

• On pain of not knowing:
  "You at the point that you can feel much better saying, you know, that he was kidnapped and killed and body found." – Tanya Taylor ([42:52])

• On the power of identification:
  "It's incredible how for these families, there is peace in knowing what happened to their loved one, even if that answer comes decades later. And for victims, there's a dignity in getting their identity back." – Aelin Lance Lesser ([43:25])

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Important Timestamps

• [03:17] Darren Forsagea introduces the mystery: "A cold case inside a cold case."
• [05:47] Emily Forman describes the discovery of Baby Jane in the water.
• [07:08] Second body (Moss Point John Doe) is found.
• [11:33] Detective revisits the case; the role of modern DNA testing is considered.
• [17:31] New York stranger funds Baby Jane’s sample testing at Othram.
• [21:56] Discussion of racial disparity in media attention.
• [24:46] Detectives locate a possible relative for Baby Jane via Othram’s genealogy leads.
• [30:42] Alicia Heinrich’s identity is revealed.
• [31:41] Suspicious disappearance of Gwendolyn and the boyfriend’s stories.
• [37:19] Tanya describes her family’s futile search for Gary Simpson.
• [41:58] The moving tale of returning Gary’s remains home to New Orleans.
• [43:25] Reflection on the power and dignity of naming the nameless.

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Conclusion & Reflections

"One River, Two Bodies" powerfully underscores the pain of decades-long uncertainty for loved ones of the missing, and the redemptive impact of technological breakthroughs in forensic genealogy. It honestly examines the disparities in attention and justice for victims of different backgrounds, and honors the detectives, scientists, and citizens who push for answers. In an era when more and more John and Jane Does are getting their names back, this episode is both a eulogy and a call to continue the search for dignity, closure, and truth.

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Transcript

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

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[Aelin Lance Lesser]

Kaleidoscope.

[Darren Forsagea]

It was almost like a cold case investigation inside of a cold case investigation. And it took on the life of its own.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

In 1982, two bodies were found almost right next to each other. No one knew who these people were or how they ended up dead in the same location. Would finding the identity of one victim lead them to the other? For nearly 40 years, investigators tried everything to hunt down their names and find out what happened to them. This is America's Crime Lab. I'm Aelin Lance Lesser. I'm here with producer Catherine Fenlossa. And I gotta say, this seems like a little different from other cases we've talked about. What's the story?

[Emily Forman]

Yeah. So this all starts in Moss Point, Mississippi. And Moss Point is between Biloxi and Mobile, Alabama, and it's right down by the Gulf. Now, one morning in early December of 1982, a truck driver is driving along a major interstate there, which is the i10. And the i10 runs all the way from Florida to California.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

Okay, I can picture it.

[Emily Forman]

The highway goes over these different tributaries which ultimately flow into the Gulf. And on this day, the trucker is driving along and he glances out his window and he thinks he sees the body of a woman floating in the water. He gets to the next rest stop and he pulls over and calls the police and he tells them, listen, I saw what I think is a woman in a plaid shirt and jeans floating in the water. So the police send out an officer and he can't find the woman.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

Oh, spooky.

[Emily Forman]

Yeah, definitely. I wanted to find out more, so I called the Jackson County Sheriff's Department and spoke to Sergeant Eddie Clark.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

He stopped his patrol car and started looking and seeing what he thought was a baby doll in the water.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

A baby doll?

[Emily Forman]

Yeah, that's what the officer thought he saw. But looking more closely, it's actually the body of a little girl and she's caught in the brush in this swampy area along the side of the river. She has blonde hair, and authorities determine she's probably about 18 months old. They do an autopsy, and it shows that she was alive when she entered the water and that she died from drowning.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

Can they tell how long she'd been in the river?

[Emily Forman]

It wasn't long. They think maybe only a day or two.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

So if this was a drowning death, I guess it could have been an accident. But if it was, you'd also think someone would be out looking for her.

[Emily Forman]

I was curious about that. Chief Deputy Randy Muffley says investigators at the time checked their records, and as.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

Far as we know, there were no reports of any missing persons or children from this area.

[Emily Forman]

So the police go back a few days later with divers, and they're searching this area where they found the little girl, looking for any type of clue. And they go a little farther down the river, and they find another body.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

They were searching the river for a female and come across the skeletal remains of what was identified later on as a black male.

[Emily Forman]

And it's a young man. He's clearly been in the water for a little bit longer. He is wearing all of his clothes, but he's pretty much a skeleton at this point.

[Tanya Taylor]

Oh, wow.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

So based on that timeline, maybe these are two separate events. Like, maybe someone is dumping bodies there or drowning people there. And also at this point, we've heard about a sighting of a woman in a plaid shirt. We've found a little child, only 18 months old, and now we've found essentially a skeleton of a man. This is already different from some of the other cases we've talked about.

[Emily Forman]

So police have two mysterious deaths and no clues. But, you know, there's also the question of the initial call that came in about a woman who hasn't been discovered. So the little girl comes to be known as both Baby Jane and Delta Dawn. And her case gets a lot of publicity.

[Tanya Taylor]

Right.

[Emily Forman]

I mean, it makes sense because it's a little girl. She's only been in the water a day or two before she's found, and people are obviously desperately looking for her mother or father.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

The sheriff's office started getting calls saying that they had seen a white female walking down the interstate with a child with no shoes on. The female was distraught, crying. They said they had pulled over and tried to assist her, and she wouldn't take any help from anybody and just kept walking.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

Oh, no.

[Emily Forman]

You know, this highway has just recently been completed, and so there are a lot of Truckers going back and forth. And there's like, chatter on the CB radio. So police are able to confirm, yes, there were sightings of a woman with a toddler around this time.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

So it almost sounds like it could have been. I don't know if she's so distraught, like a murder suicide where she takes maybe her child to the river and kills herself and takes her child with her, or maybe there's some other murderer who followed her there that she was in conflict with.

[Emily Forman]

They put this information out there and basically they get nothing. They're hoping, like, some family member will say, oh, my gosh, you know, my cousin went missing, or we've been looking for her and her little girl, nothing. Nothing turns up.

[Tanya Taylor]

Huh.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

And that's so weird to me, too, because when there's a little child like that in the picture, it's just that much less likely that this woman is some kind of nomadic person who's moving all over the place all the time or has no personal connection or is totally isolated. Like, so often when you have a little child, you have a community or family or something, so that's confusing.

[Emily Forman]

So that case goes cold.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

Oh, come on, Catherine, not another one.

[Emily Forman]

I know, I'm sorry. The local community raises money and they hold a funeral and they bury her. Meanwhile, there's not the same publicity for the man whose body is found. They don't get any calls. There's no missing person reports. They really have nothing to even begin to go on with that case. And that case goes cold. Now, the two cases take very different paths over the years. Detectives return to the little girl's case over and over again. At one point, they exhume her body. They take tissues samples and run the DNA through CODIS with no hits. A few years later, they make a facial reconstruction of what she may have looked like and they release that photo to the public. And Aelin in the photo, I mean, she's just so very sweet looking. She has these sort of soft blonde curls that just brush her shoulder. She has a cute little nose. And she's wearing this pink gingham top with white ruffled sleeves. And there are three little flowers. They almost look like they're embroidered just across the front of her top.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

I can picture it.

[Emily Forman]

That's so sweet.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

I mean, someone must be missing her.

[Emily Forman]

They circulate the picture, they put it on social media. They're just hoping someone will come forward with information that also goes nowhere. And then in 2019, the case is reopened and it's kind of a coincidence. So there are two officers in the Jackson County Sheriff's office and one of them, his name is Sergeant Eddie Clark and he has just done his own.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

DNA to find out his background.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

Yeah, it was actually me and a friend of mine, we were arguing and we did it together and see who was the bigger mutt, I guess you could call it. But when I did it, it showed me like 1500 people. I had no clue who these people. I have a huge family here, but I had never heard of these people. And it just floored me.

[Emily Forman]

He turns to one of his colleagues, Chief Deputy Randy Muffley.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

And he approached me one day and said, can we do this with the baby Jane case? Because we had tissue samples from an exhumation from a few years back.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

Bingo.

[Emily Forman]

And this case was kind of personal for Sergeant Clark because he actually grew up swimming in that same river and he was 13 when her body was discovered.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

I remember how horrible it was that that baby, poor baby, not only was killed that she lost everything. Her name, everything. She had nothing. You know.

[Emily Forman]

So they actually find out about Othram and they learn that yes, this is possible, but they need to come up with money to have the DNA and the forensic genetic genealogy done.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

The age old struggle.

[Emily Forman]

And one day they get a phone call from a woman in New York and she's got an offer.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

Oh.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

So she had read about it and she wanted to know what she could do to help. I had an idea that if we could locate some family, at least at a bare minimum, we could get the baby's name back. You know, we got a lot more than what we actually thought we was going to get.

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[Aelin Lance Lesser]

So this woman in New York, a stranger, calls the officers in Mississippi and says she wants to help identify Baby Jane.

[Emily Forman]

Yeah, it's kind of wild, right? So she pays for the DNA testing and an officer from the Jackson County Sheriff's Office packs Baby Jane's remains in dry ice in a cooler and he drives them from Mississippi eight hours to Othram in Texas. Aylin, remember when police searched the river after discovering the little girl's body? They didn't find a woman like the truck driver reported having seen, but they did find the body of a young black man.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

Yeah. And I do think it's telling that she got so much more attention. Unfortunately, I think that happens too often in our society where one victim gets a lot more attention than another, whose death is equally as tragic.

[Emily Forman]

That's actually something that comes up later in the investigation, which I'll get to in a minute. But first, police think he's been in the water a lot longer than the girl. And if it's possible, authorities knew even less about Moss Point John Doe than they did about Baby Jane. But they did know he was a homicide victim.

[Darren Forsagea]

I could tell he had been shot in the head. He was dumped off the bridge where they found him below. And he still had clothing. He was almost complete, which is usually unheard of. But I believe water had covered him, which kept a lot of animals from getting to him and basically dragging Bones off into the woods.

[Emily Forman]

Darren Forsagea is a lieutenant with the Pascaluga Police Department in Mississippi. And he basically stumbled upon this case while researching a completely different cold case. So it's a bit of a story, but in 2012, he's looking into the death of a teenage girl and he tracks her remains down in Oklahoma. So he's on the phone with an official at the Oklahoma medical examiner's office.

[Darren Forsagea]

She says, look, we've got five other cases that belong to Mississippi. And I went, what? Why would you have Mississippi cases?

[Emily Forman]

And it turns out at the time that Mississippi didn't have a forensic anthropologist. So they sent some human remains to Oklahoma, and that included Moss Pointe John Doe.

[Darren Forsagea]

None of these were being tested, which, again, I thought, you know, what are we doing? We're dropping a ball here. We've got all these such remains all over the country that belong to Mississippi, and none of them are being tested. When DNA is out there now, we should be able to identify some of these people. And so that became a whole new task. It was almost like a cold case investigation inside of a cold case investigation.

[Emily Forman]

So he starts looking into Moss Pointe John Doe. He gets photos from the medical examiner, and he puts what little information there is into a file.

[Darren Forsagea]

And then I take it to the Jackson County Sheriff's Department to turn it over to them and say, look, found this case. They didn't know anything about it. They didn't remember it.

[Emily Forman]

So the file on Moss Pointe John Doe goes back to Jackson county, which is where he was found, and Lt. Versage goes back to his own cases. You know, he checks in from time to time, hoping they've made progress, but nothing happens. And he can't get this case off of his mind. I mean, at first he's thinking this will end up being like a lot of other unidentified human remains cases that he's worked.

[Darren Forsagea]

They were transients or they had been involved in drugs, or they had some mental conditions, and the family knew they were traveling. And so I just assumed maybe this is what happened to this set, is that he just. He was never reported missing. And that was not true.

[Emily Forman]

Lt. Versaggia decides to enter Moss Pointe John DOE's information into NamUs, the National Database for missing and unidentified person. Then the FBI has an artist create a picture of what this man may have looked like.

[Darren Forsagea]

And I thought, man, this is going to be great. I'm going to be able to put him online now. We're going to find out who he is. I took it to every African American barbershop, every African American neighborhood. I put up flyers, I did everything.

[Emily Forman]

And he gets some pushback. It turns out that everyone remembers the little girl that was found in the river, but no one knew a young black man had been found, too.

[Darren Forsagea]

One of the guys goes, why wouldn't this publicize? I said, I can't tell you that. He goes, yes, you can. You know exactly why. And I said, okay, because he was black. And they said, absolutely.

[Emily Forman]

Finally, someone says, I think we should try Othram. So both Baby Jane and Moss Point John Doe's remains are sent to Othram around the same time. And the lab is able to start on Baby Jane's remains pretty quickly. But there's a problem when it comes to Moss Pointe John Doe. His body had been in the water for months, and something else had happened. So earlier, when a medical examiner tried to learn John Doe's age and biographical ancestry, they treated the remains with heat and chemicals. And to be fair, that's important for being able to actually do the forensic anthropology work.

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[Emily Forman]

Is a different story. It's not helpful. It's harmful.

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And so we came to realize that.

[Emily Forman]

There were these processes that were preventing or hindering Othram's ability to build a profile. And so this is one of the cases that initially we look at and we say, sorry, we are not able to work this case. Colby Lazion is chief of staff at othram. And he says sometimes in Tough cases. They'll research a solution where they simulate the circumstances of the remains until they find a way to successfully extract DNA. And Moss Point John Doe was one of those cases.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

That's pretty cool. So it's a real case study, and I imagine if they can figure out how to test his remains, they'll be able to use that same method on other remains which have been exposed to similar conditions.

[Emily Forman]

Yeah. And in talking to everyone at othram, it really became a mission to identify both cases. You know, not just the little girl who got like a ton of media attention, but the young black man who basically fell through the cracks.

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This was a man who was murdered. He had family looking for him in.

[Emily Forman]

The same way that Delta dawn had family looking for her. And so it was important for us to show and provide that equitable justice in both of these cases.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

So with Delta Don's case or Baby Jane, it's easier for Othram to work with her remains and do the forensic genetic genealogy. What do they find out?

[Emily Forman]

Othram's able to build a DNA profile, and that leads them to possible family members. One name that Othram gives detectives in Mississippi is the name of possibly this little girl's mother or aunt.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

That's huge.

[Emily Forman]

So authorities track down this woman, they figure out she's in Missouri, and they work with a local FBI agent, and one day he goes and knocks on her door totally unannounced.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

As soon as they showed up at the door, she was like, please tell me you found my sister.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

Oh, so it. So it's actually her sister. Sister. I just got chills. No. Is it her twin? Stop.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

What sister? She's like, no. She went missing in 1982 with her daughter. They never seen them since.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

I literally have goosebumps. Foreign.

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[Emily Forman]

True.

[GLP1 Product Spokesperson]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Tanya Taylor]

Now.

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[Emily Forman]

So it turns out that this woman in Missouri had been looking for her sister for decades. Her sister's name is Gwendolyn, and in 1982, Gwendolyn spent Thanksgiving with their family. Gwendolyn was 23, and she tells everyone that she and her little girl were moving from Missouri to Florida with a new boyfriend.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

Her boyfriend. He was former law enforcement and also a dog groomer. And I think he was going to start a dog grooming business somewhere in Florida.

[Emily Forman]

They moved, and no one's heard from Gwendolyn since.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

So when the FBI agent shows up, this woman is thinking they finally found her sister Gwendolyn, but actually, they've maybe found her sister's baby. So my murder suicide theory could still be accurate.

[Emily Forman]

Officers get a DNA swab from the potential aunt, and they send that back to Othram for testing. Later on, Chief Deputy Muffley and Sergeant Clark go to interview her and Aylham. While they're there, they actually get the results of the DNA test, and it confirms that she is the aunt of the little girl found in the river back in 1982.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

I was overwhelming. They were upset. They actually believed the baby was still alive.

[Emily Forman]

The little girl's name was Alicia Heinrich. She was found in the river just 10 days after the family last saw her on Thanksgiving. She was just 18 months old.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

And do we know anything about Gwendolyn, her mother?

[Catherine Fenollosa]

She was a small person, but they said she had a mouth like alligator. She'd jump on a grizzly bear just like dynamite, just go off like that.

[Emily Forman]

But her sister said that Gwendolyn was a good mom and that she loved her little girl.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

She was adamant that she loved that baby. She showed us a letter saying where she had met this new guy, was in love with him. I think the baby's father had been in prison several times, and I think she had a rough relationship with him. But this new guy, she was glowing about him, you know, in love with him. And I think she wanted to start a new life with him and the baby.

[Emily Forman]

Now the story gets even stranger. So a short while after Gwendolyn, her baby and the boyfriend left for Florida, the boyfriend returned to Missouri alone.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

Gwen's father had tracked him down wondering, where's my daughter? Where's my granddaughter? He gives them a story of, well, I drove them to Kansas City and dropped them off with a millionaire and they're living on a yacht in Florida right now.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

So he's claiming she's with a different man now.

[Emily Forman]

Yeah. Bizarre, right? Gwendolyn's family even got a few phone calls from a man claiming to be the new guy.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

The family did receive phone calls from a mail saying that him and Gwen was together, that they had had another child, a boy, and that Gwen and the baby, Alicia, were doing fine. That he had found their number in Gwen's Bible and had called just to let them know that they were okay and everything's good to go. Just, she doesn't want any contact with y'. All.

[Emily Forman]

Now, before Othram helped identify the little girl and authorities learned this whole Aelin, they were sort of like you. I mean, they suspected a murder, suicide. You know, maybe Gwendolyn was upset walking down that highway in Mississippi in the middle of the night and she threw her baby off the bridge and then maybe she jumped off, too. But, you know, authorities never found her body. But now everyone's starting to doubt this whole thing. I mean, maybe the boyfriend made up this story about the yacht and the new guy. So Sergeant Clark and Chief Deputy Muffley, they actually traced the boyfriend to Texas, but unfortunately he had already passed away.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

But that truck driver did see a female body floating in the river, at least as he remembers it. So I wonder if her body was just never found. But she did die.

[Emily Forman]

I asked Sergeant Clark what surprised him most about this case.

[Catherine Fenollosa]

I think the biggest thing that shocked me in this is she was never reported missing, her or the baby to local authorities. So there would have been no way they'd have been found without the help of ocram. They would have never, ever been named.

[Emily Forman]

Gwendolyn Clemmons is still an active missing persons case.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

What about the man whose remains were found in the same river?

[Emily Forman]

Othram kept working with sample remains that were exposed, you know, to similar chemicals and heat. And they finally reached back out to authorities to say, look, we're ready to work on Moss Point John Doe's case. We were able to build the profile.

[Guardian Bikes Advertiser]

And ultimately this profile led back to.

[Emily Forman]

Relatives of a man named Gary Simpson. Gary was one of five kids raised in a really tight knit family in New Orleans. I spoke with his younger sister, Tanya Taylor.

[Tanya Taylor]

He still go down all these years as the best and the most favorite brother. He. If you look at all of our family photos. He the only one took time with me. He would be holding me on all of the photos because a lot of the other ones thought I was just too spoiled. But we were always very, very close.

[Emily Forman]

The family loved to play cards together, listen to music and dance.

[Tanya Taylor]

He was an awful dancer, but you couldn't tell him that. And he used to do a dance where he would put his. This hand in his mouth and just be looking like he from the 60s doing these little crazy dances. But that was like his signature dance. He thought he was John Travolta. And I'm telling you, we don't dance like that. But he did.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

He sounds like the life of the party. Does Tanya have any idea how he ended up murdered?

[Emily Forman]

So she says Gary was 20, and he had recently moved out of the family's house and just like around the corner with a girlfriend. This was a month or two before he vanished. And one day the girlfriend shows up.

[Tanya Taylor]

I was there. She came there hysterical.

[Emily Forman]

And his girlfriend said something bad had happened.

[Tanya Taylor]

And she was like, they came and picked him up. Some guys came and got him from the house. That was one story.

[Emily Forman]

Tanya says the girlfriend then changed her story. And then she says, you know, Gary had gone to buy her cigarettes, and he just never came home.

[Tanya Taylor]

Because I always remember her saying he had on some corduroy shorts and, like, a wife beater T shirt. That's not how he found. They found him. So honestly, I don't know whether she was telling us the truth or if she had something to do with it.

[Emily Forman]

Tanya says Gary was a mama's boy. He was always in touch with the family, so it was really worrying when no one could find him.

[Tanya Taylor]

My mom went to the police station and filled out a missing report. I do remember how people were sending her on a wild goose chase. My mother didn't drive, but my father did. And I remember people saying, oh, we just saw him. He was at this bar that was called the Jolly Spot. And my parents would go there, and he wouldn't be there. Then it was rumored that he was in Houston, Texas. So we had relatives there, and my mama was sending people to look for. For him.

[Emily Forman]

This went on for years.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

Ugh, that must be so frustrating to keep not getting answers.

[Tanya Taylor]

It was never, like our mother said, don't talk about him. It was just kind of understood that we never. We never talked about him. I mean, part of it is about to make me cry because I do remember, like, one day you have a brother, and the next day I ain't Gonna even say the next day after that, you can't say nothing about him. Even the good times or the bad times, we just never had a conversation.

[Emily Forman]

Tanya was only about 10 years old when Gary disappeared.

[Tanya Taylor]

I couldn't understand, like, when people die, everybody have a funeral. Like, why we just couldn't have a funeral for him if he was dead. And I think that's what my mother held on to, the fact that it was he was coming home, like he just was lost. You know, something happened to him, he didn't have his memory anymore or something like that. So she still had a lot of hope that her son would come home. It really became depressing, especially for my mom. And, you know, she dying, not knowing what happened to her son.

[Emily Forman]

And then one day she got a call from her older sister.

[Tanya Taylor]

She said, these people contacted me and said they think they found Gary. And oh my God, it just stirred up everything. And I was like, what you mean? And I said, he living? And she said, no, he not living. And so it just brought up those old wounds.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

So now do we know what happened to Gary?

[Emily Forman]

It's still a mystery. I mean, authorities know he was shot. Tanya believes maybe her brother was kidnapped because he didn't drive and he didn't know anyone in Moss Point, Mississippi, where his body was found. So she's wondering how he even got there. Lt. Versage thinks Gary may have actually been murdered by Sam Little, who's known as the most prolific serial killer in US history. Sam Little confessed to 93 murders, and he was known to abduct victims in the New Orleans area around this time. So, you know, maybe Gary had a run in with Sam Little and he was driven out to Mississippi where he was shot and pushed over the bridge and into the water. But I'm not sure if we'll ever know. It's still an open murder investigation. Now I'd like to say that that's the end of the story, but once Gary's identity was known, his story kind of got lost again.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

Ugh, that makes me so sad. It's like he's being victimized over and over again.

[Emily Forman]

Yeah. Lieutenant Versage comes to find out that Gary's body wasn't returned to Tanya. I mean, it was still sitting at the Mississippi medical examiner's office.

[Darren Forsagea]

And I said, what the hell, we need to get him back.

[Emily Forman]

Gary's family decided to cremate and bury him with his mother in New Orleans, but they weren't in a position to pay for the cremation. So one morning, Lieutenant Versage goes to have coffee with some friends who are retired policemen. And he tells them all about Gary.

[Darren Forsagea]

Hey, man, can we pitch in and help this family out? And let's get Gary cremated so we can get him home? And, I mean, they just started throwing money up on the table. And before I got out of there, I had enough to get him cremated. And so that's what we did.

[Emily Forman]

He ends up raising about $800. And after the cremation, he took Gary's urn with the ashes back to his morning coffee group.

[Darren Forsagea]

He was with us while we drank coffee and we ate breakfast. We talked about Gary, and each one of them put their hand on the urn as I was leaving to take him home. And that was just a very moving thing. I would swear some of them guys teared up a little bit, but they would never be too macho to admit it. But I did. And I'm not too macho to admit it. I was so connected that it was almost like I'm bringing my brother home.

[Emily Forman]

And then he and his wife drove Gary's ashes to New Orleans to meet with Tanya and her siblings to bring Gary home.

[Darren Forsagea]

And the way I put it is, last time Gary was in Mississippi, somebody didn't treat him so nice. They killed him and threw him off a bridge. And so this way, this is a way to maybe bring back some dignity to humanity for that. And so that's what we did.

[Emily Forman]

Tanya says she's relieved.

[Tanya Taylor]

It's painful when. Especially when you meet new people and they asking you if you have any sisters or brothers, and you always have to explain, I have a brother that's missing. How long he's been missing? Oh, 40 years. You know, it's like you at the point that you can feel much better saying, you know, that he was kidnapped and killed and body found.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

It's incredible how for these families, there is peace in knowing what happened to their loved one, even if that answer comes decades later. And for victims, there's a dignity in getting their identity back. It does make you wonder, though, if pretty soon the whole idea of there being a John Doe or a Baby Jane will become obsolete.

[Emily Forman]

Yeah, when you think about it, I mean, it shouldn't matter how someone dies or where or when their remains are discovered or especially, like, what attention their death attracted in the press. All of these cases deserve to be solved.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

America's Crime Lab is produced by Rococo Punch for Kaleidoscope. Erica Lance is our story editor, and sound design is by David Woje. Our producing team is Catherine Fenollosa. Emily Forman and Jessica Alpert. Our executive producers are Kate Osborne, Mangesh, Hadi Gadour and David and Kristen Mittleman. And from iHeart, Katrina Norville and Ally Perry. Special thanks to Connell Byrne, Will Pearson, Kerry Lieberman, Nikki Etor, Nathan Itofsky, John Burbank and the entire team at othram. I'm Alin Lance Lesser. Thanks for listening.

[GLP1 Product Spokesperson]

Let's take a minute to unpack the myths behind GLP1 drugs. Myth 1 GLP1 is a long term solution for weight loss True GLP1 can potentially be a long term solution for weight loss. If you want to be on a drug that changes your body's natural instincts, GLP1 can fix your metabolism. FALSE GLP1s fix hunger and this leads to weight loss. But the GLP1s may actually slow down your metabolic rate as your body adjusts to consuming fewer calories. GLP1 leads to a loss of muscle mass True GLP1 can lead to a loss of muscle mass due to losing weight so rapidly that your body is pulling from both fat and muscle to make up for the energy gap from consuming so few calories. If you're looking for a natural GLP1 therapy without the needles, consider Metabolism Ignite. Metabolism Ignite is powered by plants and can help boost your natural GLP1, helping you burn fat instead of muscle. Clinically proven to help you lose nine pounds in 90 days. Visit veracityselfcare.com and receive 15% off your first purchase with promo code iheartra.

[Ryan Reynolds]

This Halloween season. There's only one place where thrills meet chills. And it's not your neighbor's haunted house. It's Solitaire Clash. That's Solitaire C L A S H Where spooky fun and big wins collide. Crack the Halloween case files, uncover eerie surprises and compete for real prizes. Whether you're in costume or just craving a scare, Solitaire Clash brings all the fun and the fright. Download Solitaire Clash Solitaire Clash in the App Store and Samsung Galaxy Store today. Don't ghost this chance to win.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

You know what?

[GLP1 Product Spokesperson]

A girl's best friend is not diamonds her lawyers.

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From executive producer Ryan Murphy comes a fiery new legal drama.

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[Emily Forman]

You can't afford to miss.

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Make it ring.

[Emily Forman]

Showtime, ladies.

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Stand up straight into that room like.

[Ryan Reynolds]

A storm no one saw coming. Hulu Original Series All's Fair now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers.

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[Darren Forsagea]

Running a business is hard enough. Don't make it harder with a dozen.

[Emily Forman]

Apps that don't talk to each other.

[Darren Forsagea]

One for sales, another for inventory, a.

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Separate one for accounting.

[Darren Forsagea]

That's software overload. Odoo is the all in one platform that replaces them all. CRM, accounting, inventory, E Commerce, hr. Fully integrated, easy to use, and built to grow with your business. Thousands have already made the switch.

[Guardian Bikes Advertiser]

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[Emily Forman]

Com.

[Guardian Bikes Advertiser]

That's odoo.

[Darren Forsagea]

Com.

[Aelin Lance Lesser]

This is an iHeart podcast.