Chandra Levy: A Missing Intern, A Politician & A Secret Affair Pt. 1

Summary

America's Most Infamous Crimes with Katie Ring

Episode: Chandra Levy: A Missing Intern, A Politician & A Secret Affair Pt. 1

Date: April 14, 2026
Host: Katie Ring (Crime House)
[Transcript covers main content only — Ads and promos removed]

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Episode Overview

In this in-depth first part of a three-episode series, Katie Ring unpacks the mysterious disappearance of 24-year-old government intern Chandra Levy in 2001—a case that rocked Washington, D.C. and ultimately exposed a secret affair with sitting U.S. Congressman Gary Condit. The episode explores Chandra’s driven, unconventional upbringing, her rise through public service, and the beginnings of her entanglement with power and secrecy inside the halls of U.S. politics. Katie also addresses the troubling dynamics at play in relationships with dramatic age and power imbalances, using Chandra’s story as a cautionary tale.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chandra Levy’s Upbringing and Ambition

[02:53–08:00]

• Family Background:

  • Chandra grew up in Modesto, CA with parents Robert (an oncologist) and Susan (managed household; raised horses). Their spiritual life blended Judaism, Pentecostal Christianity, Buddhism, and Hinduism.
  • The family traveled extensively: African jungles, Machu Picchu, Jerusalem, Costa Rica.

• Chandra’s Early Character:

  • Shy and cautious at first (“she decided to sleep in the car during a trip to Yosemite because she was afraid of bears” [03:57]), but developed resilience and confidence through challenging experiences (e.g., making it through a 10-day rock-climbing camp as the only girl to finish [04:29]).
  • Early focus on law enforcement, volunteering as a police explorer with Modesto PD, leading to a clearly defined goal to work for the FBI or CIA.

• Academic & Professional Drive:

  • Chandra “didn’t get pulled into any petty drama. All she cared about was building the foundations for a career in public service.” [04:58]
  • Attended San Francisco State University; Masters at USC’s Policy Planning & Development.
  • Secured internships with the Los Angeles mayor and California governor, then with the Federal Bureau of Prisons.

2. The Path to Washington & Meeting Gary Condit

[08:00–12:50]

• The Intern’s Last Big Step:

  • Chandra moves to Washington, D.C., “ready for anything” and aims for federal service [08:45].
  • Accompanies a friend to Capitol Hill for informal “political field trips.”
  • Personal meeting with Congressman Gary Condit, who makes a strong impression: “He was the kind of politician who was more comfortable in blue jeans than a power suit… Not only did he sit down for a glass of grape juice with them, Condit took them on a personal tour around the Capitol building.” [10:13]

• A New Connection:

  • Condit gives both women a significant career opportunity; offers job help and personal contact. The professional boundary blurs, and Chandra follows up. Their relationship rapidly evolves into a personal, then romantic, affair.

3. The Secret Affair and Its Dynamic

[12:50–16:50]

• Beginning of the Relationship:

  • Initial calls about career turn personal. Condit gives Chandra his private number. “The implication was clear, and even though Condit was married, Chandra was going to take him up on it.” [11:57]

• How the Affair Worked:

  • Secrecy is paramount. They rarely spoke on the phone directly. Chandra “started to plan her whole life around him, keeping her calendar clear just in case he got in touch with her.” [13:10]
  • Condit promises to eventually “leave his wife, even give up his seat in Congress, just so he could be with Chandra and start a family with her.” [13:29]

• Perks and Warnings:

  • Chandra tells only her aunt about the relationship. Receives coveted invitations (e.g., to the Presidential inaugural ball), but is forced into the background.
  • Signs of Condit’s lack of committment: “Throughout their affair, Condit told Chandra she was free to date other men. It was his not so subtle way of telling her the affair wasn’t that serious.” [14:01]

• Political Context & Heightened Stakes:

  • Condit is a key swing vote in Congress and leader of the Blue Dogs (moderate Democrats), “the ringleader… which essentially made him a swingboat for the new President’s first major legislation.” [14:50]
  • Increased visibility and scrutiny forces even greater secrecy.

4. Family Discovers the Affair; Warnings & Caution

[16:50–18:15]

• Family Learns the Truth:

  • Chandra’s mother, Susan, learns of the affair after a conversation with Otis Thomas, whose daughter also previously had a problematic, secret relationship with Condit (“his daughter had to be told to keep the affair a secret… but she did know his daughter was scared.”) [16:50]
  • Susan pleads with Chandra to end the dangerous relationship, but Chandra rebuffs her: “She told her mom to stay out of her business and she could date whoever she wanted. But she also told her that no matter what, she could not tell anyone.” [17:26]

• Quote – Katie’s Reflection on Power Dynamics:

  • “If Otis Thompson was to be believed, Chandra was having an affair with a very dangerous man.” [16:50]

5. Cracks Appear: The Affair & Chandra's Life Unravel

[18:15–20:10]

• Professional Setback:

  • Chandra’s D.C. internship ends abruptly after a conflict with supervisors. She’s left without a job just as Condit’s wife visits Washington.
  • Chandra readies to move out—emailing her landlord, booking flights, but is left “clinging onto” Condit’s promises.

• Final Days:

  • Chandra spends her last night in D.C. with friend Robert Kirchjean. Confides about her ended internship and the still-secret (but likely doomed) relationship.
  • Robert reflects on how “a sitting congressman should be able to help her find some sort of entry level job. He was sure that Chandra was being played, but for now he was more focused on being a good friend and listening to her vent…” [20:06]

6. The Disappearance

[20:10–21:58]

• April/May 2001:
  • Chandra prepares to return to California, but suddenly falls out of communication.
  • On May 6, her parents call D.C. police for a welfare check: “her suitcases were half full, she had personal items scattered around the apartment, and her wallet was on the ground. Wherever Chandra had gone, it looked like she was planning on coming back.” [21:20]
  • Her parents check her phone records. “In the most recent calls, one number popped up more than most… She had reached the office of US Congressman Gary Condit.” [21:46]

7. Social Commentary on Predatory Relationships

[22:00–28:00]

• Katie Addresses Listeners:

  • “Something I wish I could tell every teenage girl is that if a man says you’re mature for your age, run... which means you are easier to groom, manipulate, and take advantage of.” [22:05]
  • Powerful digression into why age-gap relationships with power imbalances are dangerous; older men target younger women for their lack of boundaries/experience and greater manipulability.

• Memorable Quotes:

  • Caller: “It’s sad because when you first hear that phrase, you’re so mature for your age, you don’t necessarily view that as a bad thing. To most girls, it doesn’t even sound threatening until you get the context.” [25:01]
  • Katie: “By framing the younger person as unusually mature, it creates the illusion of equality in a relationship where the balance of power is anything but equal.” [25:24]

• Historical Context:

  • Comparison to Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky: “Ironically, Condit was one of the politicians who was vocal about Clinton’s scandal and said that he should come clean with all of the details of the affair. Curious.” [27:14]

8. Closing Advice

[27:48–end]

• Katie’s Final Word:
  • “I know it can feel really good to feel chosen, but please, please stay away from married men… when it comes to politicians and people with power, it is even more serious and dangerous. They will always tell you they love you… but the chances of them actually leaving their wife is extremely slim.” [27:54]
  • “…And if they do, it is also most likely that you will lose them the same way you gain them. Because for many people, once a cheater, always a cheater.” [28:20]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “She didn’t get pulled into any petty drama. All she cared about was building the foundations for a career in public service.”
  — Katie Ring [04:58]

• “If Otis Thompson was to be believed, Chandra was having an affair with a very dangerous man.”
  — Katie Ring [16:50]

• “By framing the younger person as unusually mature, it creates the illusion of equality in a relationship where the balance of power is anything but equal.”
  — Katie Ring [25:24]

• “I know it can feel really good to feel chosen, but please, please stay away from married men... when it comes to politicians and people with power, it is even more serious and dangerous.”
  — Katie Ring [27:54]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Chandra’s Childhood & Ambitions – 02:53–08:00
• First Meeting with Gary Condit – 08:00–12:50
• Secret Affair Dynamics – 12:50–16:50
• Family’s Discovery & Warning – 16:50–18:15
• Unraveling & Final Weeks – 18:15–20:10
• Chandra Disappears – 20:10–21:58
• Discussion on Manipulation & Power – 22:00–28:00

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Conclusion

This opening episode offers more than just the facts of Chandra Levy’s high-profile disappearance—it paints a vivid portrait of a talented young woman drawn into a world of ambition, secrecy, and danger, all set against the backdrop of American political intrigue. Katie Ring does not shy away from the hard questions: about power, grooming, and why society is fascinated by such scandals decades later. Her thoughtful, sometimes hard-hitting commentary—merged with meticulously detailed storytelling—sets the stage for the deeper twists in the Chandra Levy case to come in the next episode.

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Transcript

[Katie Ring]

This is Crime House. Chandra Levy was a rising star in Washington. Smart, ambitious, and on the fast track to a successful career. Then, in 2001, the 24 year old intern vanished without a trace. Her apartment looked like she'd only stepped out for a moment. Her wallet was still inside. Her bags were half packed. But when her parents checked her phone records, one number appeared again and again. A sitting U.S. congressman. What followed became one of the biggest political scandals in America. A missing young woman, a powerful politician with a secret affair, and a mystery that would grip the entire nation. In this episode, I'm diving into the disappearance of Chandra, the secret relationship, the investigation that shook Washington, and the question that haunted the case for years. What really happened to Chandra Levy? Every crime tells a story about the people involved, the system that tried to stop it, and the nation that couldn't look away. Some cases are so shocking, so deeply woven into who we are, that decades later, we're still asking, how did this happen? I'm Katie Ring and this is America's Most Infamous Crimes. Every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, I'll take you deep into cases that have a lasting imprint on society and still haunt us today. I want to thank you for being part of the Crime House community. Please rate, review and follow America's Most Infamous Crimes wherever you get your podcasts and to get all episodes at once ad free. Subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. This is the first of three episodes on Chandra Levy, a 24 year old government intern who suddenly went missing in May of 2001. Her disappearance was a huge scandal because it was linked to a sitting U.S. congressman who Chandra was having an affair with. Today we'll talk about Chandra's unique childhood, her drive to succeed, and everything she did to chase it. We'll also talk about Congressman Gary Condit and the affair that could destroy both of their careers. One that had people around the world asking, how far would someone go to keep a secret? Foreign

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[Katie Ring]

at first glance, you'd think Robert and Susan Levy were your average couple. They lived in Modesto, California, a quiet little city in the heart of California's Central Valley. Robert was an oncologist, while Susan ran the household and raised horses. But beyond their buttoned up appearances, Robert and Susan were full of surprises. Although they both practiced Judaism, the Levies blended their beliefs with other religions, like Pentecostal Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism. And when their daughter was born on April 14, 1977, they named her Chandra, the Sanskrit word for moon. The Levies were known for living life to the fullest. They took Chandra and her little brother Adam on trips all around the world. They explored the African jungle in Tanzania, the ruins of Machu Picchu in Peru, the ancient temples of Jerusalem, and the rainforests of Costa Rica. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. It took a while for Chandra to warm up to all of that globetrotting. Growing up, she tended to be on the cautious side, like when she decided to sleep in the car during a trip to Yosemite because she was afraid of bears. But as the years went by, she learned to lean into her fears. When Chandra was 12, her mom made her sign up for a 10 day rock climbing camp. She wasn't really into it at first, but she stuck with it. And by the time the camp was over, she was the only girl who made it through all the way to the end. And when Chandra started high school, that resilience transformed into something else. Confidence. Chandra's teachers were blown away by her determination and focus. She didn't get pulled into any petty drama. All she cared about was building the foundations for a career in public service. For Chandra, that meant going into law enforcement. So she started volunteering as a police explorer with the Modesto pd. Most of the time, she was just doing office work, like delivering mail or answering phones. But every once in a while, she got to go on ride alongs. The thrill of working in the field made Chandra realize she wanted to be more than a local police officer. She was going to work for the FBI or CIA. Those experiences made Chandra feel older than many of the people around her. Dating boys her own age didn't really appeal to her. Instead, she found herself drawn to older men, sometimes much older. For reference, her celebrity crush was Harrison Ford, who was already in his 50s at the time. After Chandra graduated high school in 1995, she was more than ready to move on to bigger things. She decided to go to San Francisco State University, which wasn't too far from Modesto, but still far enough to get some independence. And she was just getting started. After graduating around 1999, Chandra set her sights on getting her Master's degree and was accepted to the University of Southern California School of Policy Planning and Development. Like always, Chandra impressed the faculty with her intense focus and determination. She also nabbed some major internships, first with the Mayor of Los Angeles and then with the Governor of California. Chandra loved working in politics. As always, she loved being close to action. And although it wasn't the same kind of thrill as police ride alongs, she got a front row seat to the high stakes deal making that went on at the highest levels of government. It was the kind of experience that can set a whole person's future in motion. And Chandra was no exception. She was especially moved by a trip to Folsom State Prison, where she went on a tour that included sitting in on a parole hearing. Folsom was one of the first maximum security prisons and housed some of the world's most notorious criminals like Charles Manson and Eric Menendez. So Chandra was coming face to face with some of the most dangerous people on the planet. It was another core memory for her and it set the wheels in motion for a decision that would have huge ramifications. In the summer of 2000, after her final semester of grad school, the 23 year old got one final internship. She needed to finish her degree with the Public Affairs Office of the Federal Bureau of Prisons. Any internship in Washington D.C. was a huge resume booster for an aspiring public servant. And this one was especially big for Chandra. It was a major step towards accomplishing her goal of working for the FBI or CIA. Chandra's entire life had been leading up to this moment, and like always, she was ready for anything that came her way. Shortly after arriving in D.C. in the fall, she made a surprising connection. In October of 2000, one of Chandra's friends, who was also in D.C. reached out to her. She was in the same graduate program and still needed that final internship for her degree. So she asked Chandra to go to Capitol Hill with her to put out some feelers. Chandra and her friends started visiting the offices of different congressmen and women in what they called political field trips. One of the field trips led them to the office of Chandra's representative from Modesto, Congressman Gary Condit. The Secretary told them to take a seat in the reception area till someone could talk to them. Chandra figured they'd have a quick meet and greet with an overworked staffer. So she was surprised when Congressman Condit personally came out from his office to say hi the second she saw him, Chandra couldn't help but feel drawn in. He was the exact kind of guy she was into. If you squinted, you could even see a resemblance to Harrison Ford. Not only that, but he was the kind of public servant she aspired to be. One who always took time out of their busy schedule to talk to constituents because not only did he sit down for a glass of grape juice with them, Condit took them on a personal tour around the Capitol building. As they headed back to Condit's office, he impressed Chandra again. When her friend asked him for help getting her an internship, Condit said he could do her one better and offered her a job in his office right then and there. And even though Chandra already had an internship, he also offered to help her however he could. Condit gave her his email address and phone number for his office and told her to call anytime for advice or anything else. To Chandra and her friend, their outing was a huge success. Her friend had a job and Chandra had a personal contact with a powerful man in Washington. And she was determined not to let that connection go to waste. So a few days later, she picked up the phone and called Condit's office. And it was that call that change both of their lives forever. Before we go further into the case, let's talk about Gary Condit for a minute. Throughout his career, he'd always been a bit of a renegade. He was the kind of politician who was more comfortable in blue jeans than a power suit. And even though he was a Democrat, he wasn't afraid to go against them if it wasn't in the best interest of his constituents. His popularity back home put Condit on the map, and he made it all the way to the US House of Representatives in 1989, when he was only 41 years old. By the time Chandra called his office in the fall of 2001, he was a respected member of Congress, the exact kind of mentor Chandra wanted. And Condit was more than happy to be a sounding board. But what started as a professional conversation about her career quickly turned into something more personal as they bonded over living in California's Central Valley. Before they hung up, Condit gave Chandra his private number. The implication was clear, and even though Condit was married, Chandra was going to take him up on it. She called him just before Thanksgiving, and Condit didn't waste any time. He invited Chandra to come over that night, and the affair took off from there. Before long, Chandra was spending the night at Condit's apartment. Two or three nights a week, he'd cook for her, or they'd order takeout, and then they'd watch a movie and go to bed together. Chandra seemed comfortable with the arrangement, but it took a lot of work to keep it secret. Even though Chandra had Condit's personal number, they rarely talked on the phone directly. She would leave a message and then would wait for him to call her back when he was somewhere he wouldn't be overheard. And if they ever went anywhere besides Condit's apartment, Chandra would get a cab. Then he'd follow her a few minutes later with a baseball cap pulled over his eyes. But Chandra didn't mind the cloak and dagger of it all. She was in love. And if that's what it took to be with Condit, then so be it. She started to plan her whole life around him, keeping her calendar clear just in case he got in touch with her. From what he was saying, it wouldn't be long before they could go public. Condit promised that when the time was right, he'd leave his wife, even give up his seat in Congress, just so he could be with Chandra and start a family with her. And Chandra believed him. She did a great job of keeping their relationship a secret, but it's hard to keep something like that to yourself. So Chandra decided to tell one person about her congressman boyfriend. Her aunt, Linda Zamski. The two of them were incredibly close. Chandra knew she could trust Linda with something as big as this, and Linda held up her end of the bargain. For months, Chandra and Condit kept their affair under wraps. And dating a Congressman, even in secret, came with certain perks. In January of 2001, Condit got Chandra a pair of tickets to George W. Bush's inaugural ball. Of course, he wouldn't be going with her because he had to take his wife, but he encouraged Chandra to bring a plus one. In fact, throughout their affair, Condit told Chandra she was free to date other men. It was his not so subtle way of telling her the affair wasn't that serious. Even with all the promises he was making, Chandra wasn't about to let the opportunity go to waste. But she also wasn't looking to date anyone else. So she invited one of her friends, a guy named Robert Kirchjean. Although once she got to the ball, she wasn't in the mood to party. The whole night, Chandra was in a funk. She didn't want to drink or dance. She just went up to the balcony and moped while she looked over all the other people having fun on the dance floor. Eventually, Robert had to find out what was going on. She sighed, turned to Robert and told him she was dating a congressman. Normally that kind of thing would be something to be excited about. Robert figured that whoever this congressman was, he was probably enjoying himself on that dance floor while his secret girlfriend was forced to wait in the shadows. Robert didn't like seeing his friend so sad. But he didn't push the issue any further. And after that night, she didn't mention it again. She probably knew she had to be more careful because Condit's career was about to take off in a big way. George W. Bush's inauguration was a huge opportunity for Condit. The margins in Congress were razor thin and the Republicans needed help from moderates like Condit to pass the legislation they wanted. And he was the ringleader of a conservative group of Democrats called the Blue Dogs, which essentially made him a swingboat for the new President's first major legislation. If Condit played his cards right, he could secure millions of dollars of benefits for his district in exchange for his vote. And in three months following the inaugural ball, both parties were pulling out all of the stops to get Condit on their side. But there was another side to that coin. All of that attention put Condit under a microscope. Everything he was doing was being watched, which motivated him even more to keep his affair with Chandra under wraps. But Condit could only control so much. And on the other side of the country, his secret was about to be exposed. Fast forward a few months to April 2001. Back in Chandra's hometown of Modesto, California. Spring was in full bloom. Chandra's mom, Susan was outside when she struck up a conversation with a man named Otis Thomas, who was a minister who did some part time gardening for the Levys. Susan had known Otis for years and the two of them loved to talk about their daughters who were both about the same age. Otis asked how Chandra was doing and Susan couldn't help but brag about how proud she was of her daughter. She told him about how busy Chandra was at her internship. The Bureau of Prisons was working on a high profile execution and Chandra had fielded a ton of calls about it. And things seemed to be going well in Chandra's personal life too. According to Susan's sister in law, Linda, Chandra was friends with a congressman, although that's all she knew. When Otis heard that, his entire demeanor changed. He said he might know who Chandra had become friends with because seven years earlier his his own daughter, who was 18 at the time, had become friends with the congressman. Too. And his name was Gary Condit.

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[Katie Ring]

If Otis Thompson was to be believed, Chandra was having an affair with a very dangerous man. Otis told Susan that his daughter had met Condit at a local political rally and what started as professional advice turned into a romantic relationship. Sound familiar? Otis went on to say that things didn't end well and his daughter had to be told to keep the affair a secret. He didn't know anything beyond that, but he did know his daughter was scared. Otis told Susan that if Chandra's mysterious congressman was Gary Condit, she needed to call off the relationship immediately. Susan wasn't about to take any chances, so she thanked Otis, then headed straight inside and picked up the phone. When Chandra picked up, Susan didn't beat around the bush. She asked her directly if she was seeing Gary Condit. Chandra didn't try and deny it. She just wanted to know how her mom found out about it. Susan shared the story about Otis's daughter and told Chandra she was worried about her and that she should end things with Condit. But Chandra was in love and she didn't want to hear it. She told her mom to stay out of her business and she could date whoever she wanted. But she also told her that no matter what, she could not tell anyone. Susan was stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, she was afraid for her daughter and wanted to protect her. But on the other hand, Chandra was 23 years old and Susan felt like it wasn't her place to make metal in her personal life. So in the end, she decided to respect Chandra's wishes. She didn't tell anyone, not even her husband Robert. But she wasn't done talking about it with Chandra. Susan and Robert were flying out to the east coast in about a week to celebrate Chandra's birthday. So she thought she would be able to talk to her daughter about it again once they were together face to face. On the night of April 14, the Levys all got together to celebrate Chandra's 24th birthday. And there was a lot to celebrate. Chandra was about to graduate with her master's degree in a few weeks, and thanks to her hard work at her internship, she seemed ready to take the next step in her career. At some point in the evening, Susan found a quiet moment to talk to her daughter and asked her again about the affair with Gary Condit. Chandra promised that everything was okay. She talked to Condit about what Otis Thomas had told Susan and that Condit had, quote, explained it all. Susan didn't know what that meant, but Chandra wasn't elaborating. The whole situation put Susan on edge. And whether Chandra knew it or not, her relationship with Condit was a lot less stable than she thought. By this point, Condit had chosen a side and decided to vote in favor of a major tax cut the Republicans were proposing. As a reward, he got an invite to the luncheon center celebrating George w. Bush's first 100 days in office. He would be right there at the President's personal table, and his wife Carolyn would be by his side. Carolyn Condit rarely came to visit her husband in Washington, but when she did, Chandra obviously had to stay away. So the last night they spent together was April 24, 2001, four days before Carolyn was supposed to fly in. But the impending arrival of his wife wasn't the only only bad news Chandra was dealing with. Her internship had been terminated after she tried going above her supervisor's head to get a raise. She'd still done enough to graduate, but without any immediate job prospects. Chandra would have to leave Washington, and she wasn't sure when she'd be coming back. But that didn't mean she wanted to break things off with Condit. He was still promising that he would leave his wife so they could be together. And with all the uncertainty going on in her life, that was something for her to cling onto. But for now, they had to hit the pause button. Condon had to be with his wife, and Chandra was heading back to California for her graduation from usc. The next few days must have been hard on Chandra. She couldn't talk to Conant about what she was going through. And because she constantly kept her calendar clear for him, she didn't have a lot of friends to talk to. But she needed to confide in someone. So on the night of April 27, she called up Robert, her date to the inaugural ball, and told him it was her last weekend in town and invited him to go out for drinks. Robert was surprised to hear from Chandra since they hadn't seen each other in three months since the ball. He told her that he didn't really feel like going out, but she was welcome to come over and have some pizza with him and his roommate. And to his surprise, she said yes. After a few slices of pizza, Chandra told Robert all about the abrupt end to her internship. Robert wanted to know if her mysterious congressman boyfriend was trying to help her get a job, and Chandra didn't really have an answer for that. But she did say that he was planning to leave his wife for her soon. As you'd imagine, Robert was skeptical. He didn't know anything about this mysterious boyfriend, but he felt like a sitting congressman who should be able to help her find some sort of entry level job. He was sure that Chandra was being played, but for now he was more focused on being a good friend and listening to her vent, which she was happy to do. They talked for hours until Robert decided to call it quits around 1am on April 28. He walked Chandra outside, flagged down a cab and watched her get in as the car drove away. The next morning, Chandra finally started to get everything in order to she emailed her landlord that she needed to cancel her lease and planned to move out around May 5. A few days later, she emailed her mom a few flight options for her trip back home, but she never followed up after that. At first, Susan and Robert didn't think much of it. They knew Chandra had a lot going on. But a few days went by and they still hadn't heard anything. On May 6, after she was supposed to be home, they knew something was wrong and called the Washington D.C. police. An officer headed to her apartment for a wellness check. But when they got there, Chandra was nowhere to be found. However, it looked like she'd left While she was in the middle of packing, her suitcases were half full, she had personal items scattered around the apartment, and her wallet was on the ground. Wherever Chandra had gone, it looked like she was planning on coming back. After hearing this, Susan and Robert became terrified. They called everyone they could think of, Chandra's work, the FBI, even local hospitals, but nobody knew where she was. But the Levys weren't giving up. They still paid Chandra's phone bill, which meant they could see who she was talking to. In the most recent calls, one number popped up more than most. Susan knew deep down who this number belonged to. A mother always knows, but she still had to confirm it. She dialed the number, and after a few rings, nobody answered. But then the voicemail clicked on. She had reached the office of US Congressman Gary Condit. At the end of each episode, I like to share my insights or answers to people's questions. So comment your thoughts and we'll talk about them here. Something I wish I could tell every teenage girl is that if a man says you're mature for your age, run. This means he's clearly too old for you and shouldn't be pursuing you. And two, he knows you have less experience with relationships and knowing how to set boundaries, which means you are easier to groom, manipulate, and take advantage of. Trust me, every teenager, or even women in their early 20s who have dated much older men reflect back and realize how much manipulation existed in that relationship and they all regret it.

[Guest or Caller]

I've heard a lot of men online say that older women just say these things because they're jealous that the men their age are interested in younger women.

[Katie Ring]

I also hear that all the time on social media, but I can promise you that is the furthest thing from the truth. Most women who talk about their experiences and want to warn younger women, it's because they wish they knew that information back then to protect themselves from the pain and heartbreak they experienced in that age gap relationship.

[Guest or Caller]

It's sad because when you first hear that phrase, you're so mature for your age, you don't necessarily view that as a bad thing. To most girls, it doesn't even sound threatening until you get the context.

[Katie Ring]

This is definitely one of the best manipulation tactics to make you not believe what other women are saying. We know that when you're a teen, hearing you're so mature for your age can feel like a compliment.

[Guest or Caller]

What's the psychology behind that?

[Katie Ring]

Adolescence is a time when people are trying to step out of childhood and prove they are capable of being taken seriously. So when an older adult singles you out that way, it can feel validating, like recognition that you are different from your peers, more thoughtful, more grown up, more special. And that kind of attention can be flattering, especially coming from someone older or more established in that position of authority. But the phrase can also blur important boundaries. By framing the younger person as unusually mature, it creates the illusion of equality in A relationship where the balance of power is anything but equal. The older person in the relationship always carries more life experience, influence and control. Something that isn't always obvious to a younger person in that moment. And this will almost always be used against what I want to call right now the victim. They will pressure you into uncomfortable situations by saying, oh, I guess you're not as mature as I thought you were, or oh my God, you're so immature. It will be thrown in those people's faces to pressure them into situations they're not comfortable with. And also, if you think about it, men aren't calling 18 year old boys mature for their age and wanting to hang out with them because they're mature. Unless those men are also trying to groom those boys. Many times the older men in these situations are also losers who can't get anyone their own age. But sometimes they are charming or charismatic politicians.

[Guest or Caller]

On that note of politics, you can't help but think about Bill Clinton, who was 49 at the time when he abused his power as the President of the United States to groom his 22 year old intern, Monica Lewinsky.

[Katie Ring]

Ironically, Condon was one of the politicians who was vocal about Clinton's scandal and said that he should come clean with all of the details of the affair. Curious. Looking back on it, it sounds like Condon maybe wanted a better idea of how to avoid getting caught himself. I think one thing about politicians is that many of them are elected because they are charismatic, charming or persuasive and that can be attractive or draw someone in. Especially if they are naive and especially if they want a future in politics as well.

[Guest or Caller]

What's one piece of advice you may have for young women that find themselves in a situation like this?

[Katie Ring]

I know it can feel really good to feel chosen, but please, please stay away from married men. I see this time and time again for women of all ages who get involved with married men, especially if they have something to lose. And many times having something to lose means losing their wife or their family. But when it comes to politicians and people with power, it is even more serious and dangerous. And they will always tell you they love you, that they want to live their life with you, that you're so special and no one else is like you. But the chances of them actually leaving their wife is extremely slim. And if they do, it is also most likely that you will lose them the same way you gain them. Because for many people, once a cheater, always a cheater. Thanks so much for joining me for this episode. If you're watching on YouTube. Make sure to subscribe if you're listening on audio. Please rate, review and follow America's Most Infamous Crimes and to get all episodes at once ad free. Subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. Come back tomorrow for our next episode on Chandra Levy.

[Vanessa]

A mother is on trial for allegedly luring her own son in law to his bed death and her search history may have given away everything. This is Vanessa, the host of Crime House 24 7. Right now in a Utah courtroom, 60 year old Tracy Grist is standing trial for murder, accused of masterminding a family plot to kill her son in law, Matthew Restelli. Prosecutors say Matthew was lured from California under the pretense of picking up his wife and kids. What he didn't know he was walking into a trap. Within seconds he was shot seven times, three of them in the back. And months before the killing, investigators say Tracy sent a text to one of her daughters that read, quote, Matt made it so I want to kill him. He straight up lied. I'm gonna kill him. End quote. Hear the rest of that story and never miss another on Crime House 24. 7, where we cover breaking true crime news daily. Follow Crime House 247 wherever you listen to podcasts so you never miss a story as it breaks.