Americast – “Americanswers… On 5 Live! Another US Citizen Shot Dead by ICE. What Happens Next?”
Date: January 26, 2026
Hosts: Sarah Smith, Justin Webb, Anthony Zurcher, Matt Chorley, Marianna Spring
Podcast: BBC News, Americast
Overview
This Americast episode centers on the fatal shooting of Alex Pretti, a 37-year-old American citizen and intensive care nurse, by federal ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) agents during a protest in Minneapolis. The hosts analyze what is known about the shooting, the differing narratives from federal and state officials, the political fallout and significance for the Trump administration, and broader questions about gun rights, federal law enforcement, and the future of ICE. The episode also covers audience questions from BBC 5 Live on related and wider US topics, including Trump’s apologies, his health, and recent US-Canada tensions.
1. What Happened: Assembling the Facts
[01:08-05:29]
- Event Summary:
- Alex Pretti, an American citizen and nurse, was shot dead by ICE agents while protesting in Minneapolis.
- Multiple videos show Pretti holding a mobile phone, not a gun, at the time. He is pepper-sprayed while assisting another protester, tackled, and then shot while on the ground.
- There was a firearm in his holster—not in his hand or being brandished.
- Agents allegedly removed the gun before opening fire; Pretti was hit by 10 bullets while on the ground.
- No evidence from the videos shows any immediate threat posed by Pretti.
“He is pepper sprayed…tackled to the ground…a number of them tackle him to the ground…one of them notices that he has a gun… But the gun is taken from him before we hear any gunshots.”
— Sarah Smith [03:00-04:18]
- Public Reaction:
- Videos rapidly circulated, leading to polarized responses: either viewing Pretti as a menace or a murder victim.
- The facts remain clear on key points, even as interpretations diverge.
2. Government Narratives: Dueling Statements
Homeland Security (Federal) Response [05:34-07:12]:
- Secretary Kristi Noem’s official statement depicted Pretti as a violent threat and the incident as justifiable.
- Claimed Pretti “approached US border patrol officers with a 9mm semiautomatic handgun.”
- Accused him of aiming to inflict “maximum damage.”
“An individual approached US Border Patrol officers with a 9 millimeter semiautomatic handgun…This looks like a situation where an individual arrived at the scene to inflict maximum damage…”
— Kristi Noem, read by Sarah Smith [05:34-07:12]
- Noem did not state that he pointed the weapon; Pretti was licensed to carry.
Minnesota (State) Response [07:12-08:55]:
- Governor Tim Walz criticized the federal “occupation” of Minnesota, called it a “campaign of organized brutality,” and insisted the state would investigate the shooting.
- Asserts lack of trust in federal probes and promises a state-led investigation, even as ICE withholds access to the crime scene.
“Minnesota’s justice system will have the last word… We’re creating a log of evidence for the future prosecution of ICE agents and officials responsible for this."
— Governor Tim Walz, read by Justin Webb [07:12-08:55]
3. State vs. Federal: The Fight Over Jurisdiction
[08:55-10:40]
- Minnesota police are taking extraordinary measures to gather evidence despite ICE blocking access to the scene.
- The prospect of state prosecution of federal agents is unprecedented and likely to prompt fierce legal resistance from Homeland Security.
“So they are going to try to mount state first investigation and then, if it's merited, prosecution. But it will be very, very unusual…”
— Sarah Smith [08:55-10:00]
4. Political Fallout for the Trump Administration
Narrative Shifts and Political Sensitivity [10:00-12:50]:
- Initially, officials echoed a hardline stance, painting Pretti as a would-be massacre perpetrator.
- Trump, sensing public unease, now promises a review and sends his ‘border czar’ Tom Homan to investigate, signaling a more measured approach.
“Donald Trump himself can sense that this isn’t going to play well with the public and with voters in a way that those around him cannot…”
— Sarah Smith [10:40-12:50]
- Trump’s careful tone contrasts with hardliners like Kristi Noem and Kash Patel.
Conservative Pushback [12:50-14:11]:
- Some Republicans and right-wing media are expressing discomfort.
- Even pro-Trump firebrands like Marjorie Taylor Greene warn against governmental overreach, seeing a threat to Second Amendment rights.
“She [Greene] said after this shooting that other MAGA supporters need to take their political blinders off and warned that they're being incited to civil war…”
— Sarah Smith [14:11-15:34]
5. Gun Rights, Protest, and the Second Amendment
Debate on Firearms at Protests [15:34-17:06]:
- Trump’s FBI head, Kash Patel, claims, “You cannot bring a firearm loaded with multiple magazines to any sort of protest,” conflicting with the constitutional reality.
- Precedents like Kyle Rittenhouse’s trial show that openly carrying at protests is legally protected.
“When Kash Patel says you cannot bring a firearm to any sort of protest that you want, he’s wrong. You can. It is a constitutionally protected right.”
— Sarah Smith [17:06]
- The reflex to defend law enforcement may be undermining traditional conservative stances on gun rights.
Broader Constitutional Rights Concerns [17:06-18:58]:
- Protest, free speech, and protection from illegal detention are also seen as threatened by current enforcement tactics.
- Increasing use of ICE against citizens heightens tensions and divisions.
6. Administrative Chaos and Public Trust
[18:58-21:12]
- Confusion and bureaucratic errors plague ICE raids—including targeting suspects already in state custody.
- Communicational inconsistency (varying figures on arrests) undermines public trust, especially among moderates and independents.
“If those people are going to be brought on board, you’ve got to be able to tell them a story. And I don’t see that story at the moment.”
— Justin Webb [18:58-19:59]
- Viral video evidence amplifies scrutiny; “more than 80%” of Americans reportedly have seen such footage.
7. Political Calculus for 2026 Elections
[21:12-23:45]
- With midterms approaching, shootings by ICE agents have become a central political issue.
- Democrats are debating whether to block funding for Homeland Security—a risky tactic reminiscent of “defund the police” debates.
- Some on the Democratic left have long called for abolishing ICE; whether that becomes mainstream is an open question.
“Can ICE be brought under control?…Maybe you do need to abolish ICE and replace it with something.”
— Sarah Smith [25:01-25:48]
8. Listeners’ Americanswers (BBC 5 Live Q&A)
a. Trump’s Apology to Britain over Afghanistan [26:25-29:34]
- Trump issues a statement lauding British soldiers after controversy, but stops short of a true apology.
- The King’s office likely brought dissatisfaction to Trump’s attention, especially with a state visit looming.
Notable Quotes:
“He just doesn’t seem to be able to actually apologise.”
— Sarah Smith [27:43]
b. Speculation about Trump’s Health & Succession [29:40-33:40]
- Online rumors and conspiracies abound regarding Trump’s physical/mental state.
- If officially incapacitated, VP JD Vance would take over via the 25th Amendment.
“Someone has to do something, and the various people who would have to do something are not going to do that thing.”
— Justin Webb [32:39]
c. Trump’s ‘Board of Peace’ and Global Ambitions [33:48-37:56]
- Listeners question if Trump is maneuvering for a post-presidency global leadership role by establishing himself as chairman of the Board of Peace.
- The Board’s remit is broad, but its real power depends on nations’ support.
“He has put himself as the chair of this Board of Peace in perpetuity…It is Donald Trump who is in charge of this thing.”
— Sarah Smith [36:08]
d. Tensions with Canada over China [37:56-39:51]
- Recent Trump jibes at Canadian leaders reflect deteriorating relations over Canada’s trade dealings with China.
- Threats of tariffs and public snubs are signs of strained diplomacy.
9. Notable Quotes & Moments
The Shooting and Aftermath
- “There seems to be no agreement now in modern America about anything when it comes to what actually happened. But let us try to agree on what actually happened, what we know about what happened.”
— Justin Webb [02:30] - “I think on both sides, there will be a great determination to try and, well, either make this happen or stop it from happening.”
— Sarah Smith [09:42]
Political Reactions
- “Donald Trump can tell now that that is not the way to handle these situations. He wants to de-escalate it.”
— Sarah Smith [12:10] - “Their right to bear arms is being threatened by this administration, of all people.”
— Sarah Smith [15:14]
Listener Q&A
- “You don’t really know until you know, do you?”
— Marianna Spring on health rumors [30:21] - “It depends who sits on the board and basically who is prepared to commit either military or economic might to make things happen…”
— Sarah Smith on the Board of Peace [36:08]
10. Key Timestamps for Reference
| Topic | Start | Speakers | |-----------------------------------------------|---------|------------------------------| | Shooting of Alex Pretti: What Happened | 01:08 | Justin, Sarah | | Federal vs. State Narratives | 05:29 | Sarah, Justin | | State Investigation and Legal Tensions | 08:55 | Justin, Sarah | | Trump Admin’s Response and Political Impact | 10:00 | Justin, Sarah | | Conservative/MAGA Reactions | 12:50 | Justin, Sarah | | Gun Rights Debate | 15:34 | Justin, Sarah | | ICE Bureaucratic Failures & Public Trust | 18:58 | Justin, Sarah | | 2026 Political Ramifications | 21:12 | Justin, Sarah | | Democrats’ Response & ICE Abolition Debate | 23:45 | Justin, Sarah | | Listener Q&A – Trump Apology (UK Forces) | 26:25 | Matt Chorley, Anthony, Sarah | | Listener Q&A – Trump’s Health/Succession | 29:40 | Matt, Sarah, Anthony, Marianna| | Listener Q&A – Board of Peace | 33:48 | Matt, Sarah, Justin, E | | Listener Q&A – US-Canada Tensions | 37:56 | Matt, Anthony, Justin |
11. Summary Takeaways
- Federal-state tension over ICE actions has reached unprecedented heights following the Pretti shooting, with Minnesota vowing independent prosecution.
- The Trump administration is recalibrating its public narrative amid rising, even conservative, unease over gun rights and law enforcement overreach.
- Footage of shootings is having substantial political impact, with over 80% of Americans seeing some of the videos—magnifying national debate.
- Democratic leaders face tricky messaging: pushback against ICE could risk being painted as anti-law enforcement.
- Questions from listeners highlight ongoing anxieties about Trump’s behavior, US international standing, and the shape of US power post-2026.
This episode offers a detailed, up-to-the-minute snapshot of America’s polarization over immigration enforcement, gun rights, and political power struggles against a backdrop of heated election-year politics.