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Americast
Americanswers… on 5 Live! How will Donald Trump respond to the ‘No Kings’ protests?
00:33:36
And what really happened in the latest meeting between Trump and Zelensky?
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- [00:00]
Matt
This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
- [00:06]
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- [01:14]
Sarah
Hi there. It's Monday afternoon in the UK just before 4:00 o', clock, so that puts us just before 11:00am Here in Washington, and we've all just come off air with Matt, Charlie, americancers on Radio 5 live. All four of us were there this time, which is just as well, because there was more than enough to talk about after what's happened in the States for the last few days. We covered the fallout from Volodymyr Zelenskyy's visit to the White House on Friday, where he was asking for Tomahawk missiles to help defend Ukraine, but instead got into quite a heated argument, apparently with Donald Trump about the state of the war. There were up to 7 million people took part in these no Kings protests all across America at the weekend, protesting against the power grab of Donald Trump's presidency. And do stick around until the end of the podcast, because that's when Justin and I will be taking a little bit of time to look into the President's business dealings whilst he's in office. Welcome to americancers on five Live.
- [02:15]
Ad Announcer
Americast americast from BBC News, When Donald.
- [02:18]
Anthony
Trump calls, they say, yes, sir, right away, sir.
- [02:22]
Justin
Happy to lick your boot, sir.
- [02:23]
Sarah
We are the sickest country in the world.
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George
Oh dear.
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Ad Announcer
Are you worried that billionaires are going to go hungry? Of course the President supports peaceful protests.
- [02:31]
Justin
What a stupid question.
- [02:32]
Matt
Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein.
- [02:41]
George
Right. We've got a lot to get through, so let's get stuck straight in. Let's talk no Kings. Over the weekend, millions of Americans took to the streets across America to protest against Donald Trump's presidency. The no Kings rally was held across major cities like New York, Chicago and Washington, DC. They turned out in huge numbers to protest against the expansion of presidential authority under Donald Trump. And then he addressed the rallies in an interview that aired yesterday on Fox News.
- [03:08]
Sarah
Mr. President, do you think that the government shutdown is all about this rally that's happening this weekend, the no Kings rally?
- [03:15]
Matt
No, I mean, some people say they want to delay it for that.
- [03:18]
Justin
A king.
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Anthony
This, this is more than a king. You know, they're saying they're referring to.
- [03:23]
Matt
Me as a king. I'm not a king.
- [03:24]
George
Right, he's not a king. He also shared an AI generated video of himself as a king flying a plane and dropping.
- [03:31]
Justin
You've stolen my punchline, Brown Liquid.
- [03:35]
George
We'll call it on Bethesda to the side of the Top, the soundtrack of Top Gun. Which leads us all. Very nice to our first question. Steve is on the line. Hello, Steve.
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Caller
Hey, how you guys doing?
- [03:45]
George
Very good. Where are you in the world, Steve?
- [03:47]
Caller
I am in Southern California.
- [03:50]
George
Excellent. So what is your question for the Americasters?
- [03:53]
Caller
Well, the question is, is it really safe to protest in America now? I mean, at this point? And I want the answer based on like the rules of New America, not old America.
- [04:05]
George
It's a good question, Sarah.
- [04:07]
Sarah
Well, interesting, Steve. I think I might technically be at more risk than you from things like facial recognition software because we don't know to what extent these protest, which, you know, up to 7 million people took part in across America, to what extent and in what cities they were being surveilled and images were kept that could be used with facial recognition software. And I suppose people like me, who's here on a work visa, people who were on student visas, potentially could be at risk of having those revoked if the administration wanted to go after them because they had taken part in these protests. That's not something we've ever really seen happen before. But in, as you say, the rules of New America, I think that's not impossible. Those threats were not made before these protests by the administration, but I guess it remains a possibility what they would consider to be UN American activities. Now, I popped down to have a look at the protests in Washington, which were absolutely enormous. And people had taken a great deal of care to get dressed up in fun, funny outfits. There were lots of people as inflatable dinosaurs and different kind of costumey animals and cartoonish charact. And that is part of a deliberate effort that started in Portland where they got protests outside the ICE facilities there to make this look as fun and cartoonish as possible. So it's much, much harder for the administration to say that these are dangerous, radical anti American protests when everybody is dressed up like they're at a carnival with a very kind of jolly, happy atmosphere. But I guess that wouldn't technically stop them complaining that people who were say on visas had taken part in these anti American protests and therefore could have their visas revoked.
- [05:44]
Caller
Well, I mean, there's also the self incrimination factor. Like as with social media, like all of these people are putting their faces on YouTube so, you know, they can take all the time they want.
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George
Steve, it's good that you've asked the question, but I suppose to some extent you can answer it. Where would you go and join a protest?
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Caller
You know, at this point, no, because there's too much technology involved. Like they can, AI moves way too fast. Say if they want me on something else or like are mad at me for saying something, they can run my face through the protest, through their files and find me.
- [06:26]
Justin
Your fear about protesting is sort of part of the effect here, which is that you no longer feel like you are able, able to take part. But I think what's interesting as well is the kind of tension that exists between what you're saying, which is a really serious point, and a real worry and concern you have, and then what, what Sarah was describing there, which is, you know, the efforts to make these protests seem as, as fun, if that's the right word, or as sort of carnival, like as possible. And then also, for example, that, I don't know if you saw the AI generated video that Donald Trump shared on Truth Social, which Matt was mentioning, which is clearly an attempt at kind of like rage bait, the classic, like Donald Trump posts this video of him as a king in a plane. Dr. This brown stuff. What could it possibly be on the protesters? And to some extent you wonder whether it's kind of like both sides are accepting, I don't know, an element of humor to it. Although it sounds to me like you consider that humor to be, well, I mean, funny.
- [07:22]
Caller
Well, I mean, you know, there's like one day of fun, but every day people are dressed up as ICE agents with guns running around the streets. You know, that's, that's the reality.
- [07:34]
George
Really good to talk to you. Thank you for bringing your question. To the Americasters, we'll have to move on. We've got a new question on the government shutdown. George in Somerset has been in touch. I was just wondering if the ameracasters could explain about the US Government shutdown.
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Matt
And how long it could potentially go on for. Is there a precedent where it took.
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George
Longer than this to resolve? What is the likely outcome if neither side budges? Many thanks, Anthony. Let's come to you.
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Anthony
Yeah, well, we're approaching the record and the record was set in the last government shutdown during Donald Trump's first presidential term. The shutdown started at the end of the year in 2018 and stretched on just over a month into late January 2019. We're now going to be entering our fourth week of this government shutdown. The fourth week starts on Wednesday, so there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of movement to reach any kind of an agreement. So this could very well set the new record. Donald Trump has been moving money around to keep the military and immigration agents paid. He's also cut spending and cut government programs that are funneling money towards Democratic states. There's some major infrastructure projects in California and New York that have had their funding suspended. The big boat of contention right now between the Democrats and the Republicans are these health care, health insurance subsidies that expire at the end of the year. Democrats want them to be renewed. Republicans don't wanna even talk about it until the government's reopened. And there just hasn't been a whole lot of movement on that central point of controversy of discussion. And until it does, it doesn't seem like the Democrats wanna back away. Even though the pain for Democratic constituents, for government workers and maybe even for government services in the coming weeks is gonna be increasing.
- [09:27]
Matt
And if you look at the question, we've just had the question before. Cause you can link the two, can't you, Anthony, that on the one hand, the very much lighted on this single issue of health care. And it looks like a good issue where you say you must not get rid of these subsidies that have helped so many poorer Americans. And on this single issue, we're going to close the government down, we're going to win this battle. On the other hand, you've got millions, as we've just been saying in the street, quite a few of them, I mean, they'll have a range of views of the government. None of them like Donald Trump, but they'll have a range of views about what you should do about that. But at least some of them actually believe and this word was used by some speakers at the rallies that he's a fascist, that America has succumbed to fascism. And I think our first questioner kind of, you know, you got from him a real sense of a fear of the administration. And in those terms, do the Democrats just say, okay, we've won on health, you know, say they're given the win? Anthony, is that enough now for their own supporters, or does it just look a bit weak? Actually say, okay, thanks, we'll take that then, and let's go back to business?
- [10:27]
Anthony
Yeah, that's going to be really tricky for Democrats and the Democrats in the Senate who have triggered the shutdown by refusing to approve a temporary spending bill. How do they find an off ramp that satisfies all these protesters? And part of it is, yes, if you strike a budget agreement with the Republicans and then Donald Trump just doesn't spend the money as he's done so far this year, just cuts programs without Congress's approval. What's the point of reaching any kind of agreement and reopening the government when Trump has all of this power? So I think there are Democrats and certainly a lot of the protesters who wanted some kind of guarantee that Trump won't have this broad executive authority to just slash things left and right and just dealing with insurance isn't nearly enough.
- [11:12]
George
Well, let's move on. We've got Scott on the line. Hello, Scott.
- [11:16]
Caller
Good afternoon.
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George
What is your question for the Americas?
- [11:20]
Sarah
So a few months ago, we had a lot of drama around all the gerrymandering and redistricting. So there was the Texas lawmakers who flew out to Chicago and they were hearing our news. Since then, it's all been quite quiet in the UK in terms of what's happening in that space.
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Caller
So just wondering, is it all over.
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Sarah
Or is it just not cutting through with so much other stuff going on.
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Matt
In the news at the moment?
- [11:43]
George
That's such a good question. That applies to so many things.
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Justin
That's why we do our under the radar episodes sometimes.
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George
Is it, have we stopped talking about it because it stopped happening or because something else came along?
- [11:56]
Anthony
Well, there's still the Texas redistricting passed. Those lines have been redrawn. California, their response is going to the ballot box in November. It looks like it will probably pass. Meanwhile, there's other efforts in other Republican states like Missouri and Indiana and South Carolina to draw new lines and North Carolina to draw new lines that will secure some additional seats for Republicans. It's a little harder for Democrats to do it anywhere else. And I haven't heard A whole lot of real effort, maybe in New York, but that still, that might take some time. So this is all setting it up for next year and the congressional midterm elections next year, because who controls Congress is going to and who controls the House of Representatives really could determine how much power Donald Trump has for the last two years of his presidential term and whether Democrats, if they take back the House, even by a narrow majority, they will have oversight and subpoena power and the ability to really gum up what the president's doing. So that is why you're seeing all of this scramble, particularly among Republicans who desperately want to hold on to control of the House of Representatives.
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Matt
And it's close. It's closer than it should be, probably from the Democrats perspective. And it's worth saying this in light of all the no king stuff and all the rest of it, that actually, you know, when you look at generic polls, so will you vote Democrat or Republican in the congressional elections next year? The Democrats are ahead, but not by much. It's still quite squeaky. And, you know, if you look back to 2017, 18, so the Trump first term, the midterms, where he had a real bloody nose from the electors in the midterms, you don't have the same sense now to not say it can't change. There's a year to go. But at the moment, there is this feeling among Democrats of goodness, hang on a second. When are we going to get this head of steam that gets us going to these elections? And that's why it could be that gerrymandering in Texas and the efforts by the Democrats to fight back against him, particularly if they get the right to do it in California. As Anthony says, that's going to be something for the ballot next month. It could matter a lot and a lot more than it probably ought to.
- [14:11]
George
Great question. Thank you, Scott. I think basically the answer is it is still going on. It's just been overshadowed by other things. Let's turn our attention to Ukraine now. Volodymyr Zelensky went to the White House, met Donald Trump. Some reports of shouting matches behind the scenes. We've had a text in from David says should someone point out to Donald Trump there's not such a particularly wide ocean as he often claims between Russia and the usa. If you're in Alaska, for example, for this and other reasons, the Ukraine war is a threat to the usa. He arms Israel, but why not arm Ukraine with tomahawks? Sarah, how bad was the meeting and what's your response to David's question.
- [14:51]
Sarah
So the meeting was apparently very bad, although President Zelenskyy was able, it seems, eventually by the end of it, instead of saying that he would give pretty much all of the currently occupied areas of Ukraine to Russia, to scale it back to something a little bit more acceptable. And by the end, Donald Trump, just after he left, tweeted that they should, well, they should freeze the lines where they are now, both sides declare victory and talk about it later. Which is slightly better than what he was wanting Zelenskyy to do when he went into the meeting. But you could tell from President Zelensky's demeanor afterwards that it hadn't been particularly great. This was really quite predictable because Donald Trump had had a two and a half hour phone call with Vladimir Putin the day before. And so every bit of progress that had been made by European leaders who, remember a month ago, they came with Zelensky to the, to back him up and say, look, this is what needs to happen. President Trump, it's only fair if Ukraine gets both the ability to defend itself for now and a better kind of peace settlement. But Vladimir Putin every time is able to persuade Donald Trump of his point of view, that somehow he has a right to these parts of Ukraine. He was no doubt offering him business deals to do with a lot of the valuable rare earth minerals that are in the occupied parts of Ukraine. And this is a pattern we have seen again and again and again that Donald Trump sounds frustrated with Vladimir Putin, increasingly sympathetic to the Ukrainian cause, has one more meeting or conversation with Putin and he's back to backing pretty much what, you know, Kremlin talking points about the war.
- [16:30]
Justin
We actually, funnily enough, Justin and I did a bit of a cameo on Saturday on Newscast, a different podcast. One of the things that we were chatting about was this. And we were talking to James Waterhouse, the correspondent for the BBC in Ukraine, and we were saying how this kind of constant, like you just described, Sarah, sort of flip flop, it feels like it goes, it goes around in circles. And I mean, last time, obviously it got very tense in the Oval Office with Zelensky or the time, the original bad time with Zelensky and Donald Trump and particularly J.D. vance. But then, you know, same with Putin. It's like at one point he'll be like, yeah, Putin's chatting to me. And then it will be like, no, no, he's not talking to me. You're like, it's very on and off again. It's a little bit Elon Musky. Elon Musk, Trumpy Their relationship to some extent.
- [17:12]
George
How much of it do you think Justin, is to do with Putin and how much of it is just Donald Trump bears the imprint of the last person who sat on him on any subject?
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Matt
Yeah, a bit of that. But I think there is a wider thing about Putin and Russia. There is a prize here. Obviously there's a prize for Russia, but there's a prize for the United States. So Trump thinks in having friendly relations with Russia and business relationships with Russia and business relationships that can work for big American companies. And that side of it, kind of completely separate from Ukraine, has always been actually, right from the beginning of the second Trump presidency, a thing for him. And the Russians have played on it and played on it quite successfully. You can absolutely see circumstances where he goes further down that road and says, you know, we're going to do this deal and that deal with the Russians and see the world in a way that divides it up, but allows Ukraine just to sort of wither and die, certainly is an issue. Or else he says to the Europeans, as they kind of have, haven't they? Well, you deal with this if you feel so strongly about it.
- [18:16]
George
Well, it's a great question. Thank you very much for that. Well, let's move on. And now it is time for something that I know will get the Americast team very excited.
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Justin
Santos Watch.
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Sarah
He's back.
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Matt
He's back.
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George
He's back.
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Justin
And Anthony messaged the speed of light like Anthony messaged us on the group.
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Sarah
Chat, being like, guys, he's back.
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Matt
Anthony actually got him out of jail. Did Anthony do a bit of work behind the scenes, but it's not necessarily journalistically acceptable.
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Anthony
Careful, Mariela.
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Justin
This is all fake news.
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George
Yes, this is all fake news. Don't let that go far. First of all, explain what is Santos.
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Justin
Watch so Well, I don't know. I feel like I should let Anthony fight. Anthony, Anthony, explain. And then I'll be the keeper of.
- [19:02]
George
The Santos Watch flame.
- [19:04]
Anthony
George Santos was a member of Congress, a Republican, elected to Long island several elections ago. Very over the top, very flamboyant, very controversial, saying controversial things. He got mired in controversy when he was in Congress. There was an ethics investigation. He was expelled from Congress because of fraudulently soliciting campaign donations and spending them on extravagant purchases for himself. He ended up pleading guilty to misusing campaign funds, got sentenced to seven years in prison. And that was, we thought, the last we would hear of him until, lo and behold, last week he received clemency from Donald Trump, which is not a full pardon, but it does allow him to get out of prison. And as far as I know, I'm not sure if he's been released yet. But if he hasn't, he will be walking free very soon. So we will have George Santos once again to kick around in the coming months.
- [20:05]
George
So he posted on social media, Donald Trump posted that Santos had been horribly mistreated, adding, therefore, I just signed a commutation releasing George Santos from prison immediately. Good luck, George. Have a great life. There was an entire thread on the Discord dedicated to George Santos. And following last week's news, Ian posted this on the Discord. He said, freeing Santos is yet more evidence than the rule of law. And the US is in tatters. It almost beggars belief how they've reached such a pitiful state.
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Matt
Well, hang on, I mean, look, the sentence is commuted, so he's not been pardoned, I think I'm right in saying. And the commutation of the sentence is just that, isn't it, Anthony? So he's not going to have to serve the time, but he's not been pardoned completely of the crime. The crime has not been sort of wiped off his record. Number two, I mean, he lied about everything and it was just, it was peculiar and baroque the extent to which he lied and then stood. And we used to use a clip of this Googling.
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Justin
I was just Googling what was the worst one.
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Matt
The worst of them? Yeah, I mean, you could read just as holes. He said that his, his mum didn't. He was a Holocaust survivor and he turned out not even to be Jewish.
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Justin
Wasn't it also that she. She was in 9 11, was she not?
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Matt
She was 9 11.
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Justin
Yeah, she was. She was, yeah, exactly.
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Matt
Yeah.
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Justin
She had a degree at the World Trade Center.
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Matt
His entire educational background was made up. His work record was made up. I mean, in this day and age, all this stuff is checkable.
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Justin
And then he said he was a drag queen in Rio.
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Matt
Do you remember this?
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Sarah
Drag queen in Rio?
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Justin
He initially denied being the drag. No, he denied being this drag queen at the Rio Carnival. And then he said, I had fun at a festival, sue me. Having fun.
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Matt
He was also the first elected openly gay Republican. Anthony, again, I think I'm right in saying. But he then turned out to be married to a woman openly. The two are not necessarily incompatible. But, you know, every single aspect of his life was weird. And then my favorite one, which we used to use as a clip, Sarah, didn't we? This is one of the things, I think he's outside Congress and he's being asked how are you coping with your kind of congressional duties with all this pressure on you? And he said a man ought to be able to walk gum and chew at the same time.
- [22:15]
Sarah
What was amazing about what Donald Trump said about everything you said, Matt? But he also said thanked Geor Santos because he always voted Republican, referring to his time in Congress when he was a reliable vote in the House. And that was one of the reasons why it took quite a long time to get him expelled was Republicans needed his vote. And it's just one of these brilliant examples where Donald Trump says what you're really meant to keep inside, not only out loud but post it on social media. I mean we could have all surmised that Trump liked him because he was loyal. And even Marjorie Taylor Greene's threatening to vote against him in Congress now. But he could always rely on Santos. But we don't have to speculate about that. Donald Trump just tells us that says.
- [22:58]
George
The quiet bit out loud. Well, I was gonna round off because all this week we're gonna put together a time capsule. It sums up politics in 2025 to be open in 20 years time. Cause I've realised this week I'll have been working in Parliament for 20 years.
- [23:11]
Justin
And politics 20 years time.
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George
I think I was old enough.
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Justin
I was more thinking forwards. Beep beep.
- [23:22]
George
So but I was gonna ask what would sum up American politics? Cause somebody's already suggest letter the king's letter to Donald Trump invited him. What would sum up. Maybe George Sanderson's CV should go or.
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Justin
I would say one of the. But does it have to be tangible?
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Sarah
No.
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Justin
Well, I mean because most of my stuff is.
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George
Exactly. But this is the problem with times captions because like music and magazines and.
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Justin
Things that aren't physical things because like one of those AI videos like even Donald Trump in the plane and the stuff and the brown liquid being dropped out or like the. One of the guards on the Mariana's.
- [23:54]
George
Just suggested the most recent thing in her head.
- [23:57]
Justin
No, something that's a bit trolly. Maybe It's a Trump 2028 cap. We've.
- [24:02]
George
That's a physical thing. That's a physical thing, Justin.
- [24:08]
Justin
My theme is rage bait. There you go.
- [24:09]
Matt
Yeah. I wonder if also the. The Biden debate where you know, the. Everything that everyone had tried against Trump collapsed.
- [24:18]
Justin
But what's the reasons Joe Biden.
- [24:20]
Matt
Well, yeah, with the auto pen. Yes, the auto pen. Yeah, there you go. That's my one.
- [24:28]
Sarah
Because if we talked about the hall of Fame or the Walk of Fame, Donald Trump has installed one of his many White House changes, a whole row of elaborately gold framed portraits of previous presidents, all in order that you would walk along one of the colonnades.
- [24:44]
Anthony
But.
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Sarah
And then it's got Obama and then him. And where Biden would be a picture of the auto pen citing Biden's name and then another picture of him again. So it's like he's put together this whole exhibition just as one very big troll against Biden.
- [24:59]
George
The auto plane is really nice. Anthony, what would you choose?
- [25:01]
Anthony
You know, have they actually made a physical gold card, Immigration cold card? Donald Trump was talking about, you know, the ability to buy citizenship to the United States. Who paid enough money. And I know there were pictures of it going around for $1 million, you could become an American citizen. So if there is indeed an immigration gold card out there, if there's a physical one, I would throw that in because that captures Donald Trump's immigration policy over the past year.
- [25:25]
George
I'm not sure our budget will stretch.
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Justin
We can print one out.
- [25:38]
Sarah
Okay, we promised we'd answer one extra question here. And we've got one in from Adam in Vietnam, who's asking about a hot mic moment that was picked up when Donald Trump was talking to the President of Indonesia, Prabowo Subianto, when they were in Egypt signing that Gaza peace deal. Have a quick listen to. It's not very good audio. So let me tell you what they're actually saying there. President Subianto is saying, can I meet Eric? And Donald Trump says, I'll have Eric call. Should I do that? He's such a good boy. I'll have Eric call. And he's talking about Eric Trump, obviously Donald Trump's son, who is in charge of the day to day running of, of the Trump Organization. Now, we don't know exactly what they were talking about, why President Subianto wants to speak to Eric. We do know the Trump Organization has opened a golf club in Indonesia this year. There's another one under construction. And Adam wants to know, is the president allowed to get involved in business Trump Organization dealings while acting in his presidential role? And what are the legal ramifications of this?
- [26:48]
Matt
I mean, the answer is that he's not meant to because he has put to one side the business dealings. They are in, in the hands now of Eric Trump and Donald Trump Jr. But on the other hand, you know, they're officially vice presidents of the Trump Organization. But I mean, plainly they have been talking to Donald Trump himself. And plainly he is to this extent at Least still involved in the sense that he's willing to entertain a conversation about them. Is that illegal? Well, I mean, Sarah, the Constitution is pretty plain, isn't it, that you're not allowed to accept gifts if you're president from foreign leaders. But is this a gift from a foreign leader? There are just so many gray areas, areas into which the Trump administration has strayed or wandered happily. I suppose I should put it that all the kind of previous conventions just don't seem to exist anymore, do they?
- [27:41]
Sarah
Yeah, exactly. And I think in terms of the law and the Constitution, that emollients clause that you were referring to, Justin, was tested quite extremely when during his first term, President Trump had bought a hotel very near the White House and pretty much insisted that all foreign leaders and their huge delegations stay there if they were coming to visit him in the White House. And he was never prosecuted for that. It was sort of generally decided, I think, that it was too difficult to try and prosecute this constitutional clause, saying that he can't benefit from gifts from foreign leaders. And having not been able to prove it, then it seems pretty unlikely that any of these things that are going through the Trump Organization will be able to be legally held against Donald Trump. But there's no shame or embarrassment about this these days. I mean, immediately after this, Eric Trump himself was on television saying, yeah, he's brought probably talking about a couple of hotels that we're doing there. They opened one in March, there's one under construction in Bali. And Eric Trump was saying, look, these are two of the biggest construction projects in the region. It's not surprising that the President wants to talk about it. Although he said he'd never spoken to him before or been involved in Indonesian politics. And actually, I mean, in some ways this as scandalous as it would have looked to people five, 10 or 15 years ago, it's met with a bit of a shrug these days compared to say the tour Eric Trump did of the Middle east looking, talking to countries where they wanted to sign deals for new Trump towers or hotels in golf resorts in Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Qatar. A fortnight before his father was coming through on a big diplomatic tour that was very splashy, very glitzy, very headline grabbing. And there was Eric running around these self same countries signing deals for Trump Organization construction projects just before his father was about to fly in. When you can do things as naked as that, it gets difficult for people, I think, to be particularly shocked. And it may be, you know, that they can't be held account by the Law either.
- [29:40]
Matt
Yeah. And it's the two sides of it, isn't it? So there's, number one, there's just the fact of doing the business deals and whether or not that officially should be allowed, and it kind of isn't allowed in the Constitution, but the extent to which it's just become acceptable, there's nothing that anyone is willing to do about it. And when we say who would do something about it, it would be in con. It would be among Republicans in Congress, wouldn't it, in the old days, who would have said, gosh, this president, although he is in our party, is behaving in a way that we can't accept, and they would get in his way. But, I mean, all that's kind of gone in the Trump era, just doesn't exist anymore. But the other thing is the link of it all which fascinates me. And you were out in the area, Sarah, and saw all of this at close hand. It's just the way in which, when you think of what he has achieved, and I'm using the word kind of lightly, because what he has achieved is something that many Democrats say is more than they'd managed when it comes to Middle east peace. But it's certainly not a full peace deal, obviously. But when it comes to what he's achieved, how linked is that to all the business side of the Trump family? And I think the answer is very, isn't it?
- [30:47]
Justin
Yeah.
- [30:48]
Sarah
Well, you look at Jared Kushner coming in, for instance, Donald Trump's son in law, who worked with him in the White House in the first term, but has not been in there at all, has had nothing to do with anything else other than this Middle east peace deal in this term. But he was brought in to work with Donald Trump's special envoy, Steve Witkoff, because he had really extensive links to many of the political leaders in the Arab countries in the region through his business dealings. And it was very important, actually, that those Arab countries were brought on board to deal with Hamas whilst America was talking to Israel. And it's one of the reasons why this deal was able to go further than others have in the past was just simply the number of regional leaders who were involved in it. And many of them were able to be brought on board by Jared because they already knew him and had these established links. And Donald Trump talks about all of these peace deals in terms of business as well. I mean, unashamedly. And some people might be shocked by this and think this is no way to be conducting global diplomacy, but he says it's effective that he really, really wants to get the Middle east stabilized and try and put to an end to the conflict between Israel and Palestine, because he thinks it's hampering business development opportunities in the region, not just for him, but for the. And he talks about the business that the US Will be able to do with Russia if the war in Ukraine is solved. It's a major driver of his impetus to get these things done is to make these regions safe for business, essentially, and for American business. But to a certain extent, it does seem to be effective.
- [32:18]
Matt
Yeah. And you look at the Qatar relationship, which there are those in the Republican Party, they're not saying it desperately publicly, but there are those in the Republican Party who absolutely abhor the relationship with Qatar because they regard that state in particular as being one that is way too close to all manner of organizations they regard as terrorist or terrorist aligned. And obviously, you know, back in the day it was the Taliban, but now it's Iran, it's the Muslim Brotherhood, it's most recently, of course, Hamas. And then when that attempt was made by Israel to kill Hamas negotiators in Doha in the Qatari capital, that seems to have been the final straw for Donald Trump. We made Netanyahu apologized publicly on the phone to the Qatari leadership. Was that because of his Trump's desire to see business deals in Qatar carry on and Qatar investment in the United States, which, by the way, is absolutely huge to see that carry on in spite of what you might think of Qatar as a state? And if so, were those business arrangements absolutely trumping, no pun intended, any kind of wider diplomatic considerations? Would there be those in the Republican Party who say you ought to be siding with Israel rather than forcing Israel to apologize to this state, etc. Etc. On the other hand, people would say, you know, as you just have, Sarah, that actually it may well be that it works in a way that other more conventional forms of diplomacy haven't in the past?
- [33:49]
Sarah
Okay, well, that's it for this particular episode. I'll be talking to you very soon, I hope. Just bye bye bye.
- [33:57]
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- [34:01]
Sarah
Well done for getting all the way to the end of another Americast episode. That makes you officially an Americaster. It's not easy navigating your way through the news in America, particularly at the moment, but you did it and we're delighted to have you with us. So if you do have a comment or a question about any of the stories we've talked about or anything, anything you'd like us to talk about do please get in touch. You can email us americastbc.co.uk you can WhatsApp us a message on 033-01-2390, and we do answer your questions every single week on the podcast. You can always join the discussion in our online community on Discord. The link is in our podcast description in your app and we'll be back with another episode very soon. Till then, see y' all later. Bye bye.
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Sarah
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Sarah
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- [36:59]
Justin
America is changing, and so is the world.
- [37:03]
George
But what's happening in America isn't just.
- [37:06]
Matt
The cause of global upheaval.
- [37:08]
Sarah
It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.
- [37:11]
Justin
I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. i'm.
- [37:14]
Anthony
Tristan Redman in London.
- [37:16]
Sarah
And this is the Global Story.
- [37:18]
Justin
Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.
- [37:23]
Sarah
Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.