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Are cracks showing inside Trump’s MAGA movement?
00:33:41
The growing questions from Republicans on how Trump is running the country
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- [00:00]
Justin
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Mariana
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- [01:09]
Justin
We need to talk about the Republicans. We've spent a lot of time recently talking about the Democrats and indeed the optimism in the Democratic Party following their election wins a couple of weeks ago. What on earth is happening though to the Republicans? What are these cracks in the MAGA movement? Why is Donald Trump suddenly under pressure over the economy, over high food prices, over the idea of 50 year mortgages, but also why is he giving millions of dollars to Argentina? Why is he taking action in Venezuela and now potentially in Nigeria as well? Isn't all of this a bit un maga? What's happening? What's going wrong? Welcome to AmericasT.
- [01:50]
Mariana
AmericasT, AmericasT from BBC News.
- [01:55]
Anthony
When Donald Trump calls, they say, yes sir, right away sir. Happy to lick your boot, sir.
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Luma Nutrition Advertiser
We are the sickest country.
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Anthony
Oh dear.
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Marjorie Taylor Greene
Are you worried that billionaires are going to go hungry?
- [02:06]
Mariana
Of course the President supports peaceful protests. What a stupid question.
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Donald Trump
Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein?
- [02:18]
Justin
Hello, it's Justin in the worldwide headquarters of AmericasT in London, England.
- [02:22]
Mariana
And it is Mariana sitting next to Justin in the worldwide headquarters.
- [02:25]
Anthony
And it's Anthony in the American headquarters of AmericaCast in Washington D.C. it's right.
- [02:30]
Justin
That you stick up for the American headquarters this time around, Anthony. Cause we're going to be talking about the Republicans. And I imagine from all that we know about the Republicans, that they would be very keen to have headquarters based in the United States, et cetera, et cetera. But here's the thing. What can we say definitely, about what the Republicans do believe in the modern era? That's what we're going to focus on today. And the place probably to start is foreign policy, because there are all these areas where there seem to be really big cracks opening up. And foreign policy is an interesting one because I think we all thought that we knew, and everyone listening thinks that they knew what Donald Trump was promising in terms of foreign policy when he came to power. Essentially reducing America's commitments around the world, bringing people home, not getting involved in foreign wars, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And there seems to be some anger now within the Republican, the MAGA coalition about what is going on in that regard. Let's listen first, then to a Republican congresswoman, Marjorie Taylor Greene. We mentioned her quite a lot. We seem to be mentioning her more and more and more. Maybe she's a candidate for 2028. Anyway, she's been talking to Caitlin Collins on CNN about the Trump administration's priorities.
- [03:48]
Marjorie Taylor Greene
I believe in America first policies. That's why I campaigned for President Trump and have supported him as long as as I have, and I do support him. But I want all of my colleagues to come through in action in supporting America first policies. And I think the American people showed that on Tuesday. You're not going to convince them to go to the polls and vote by bailing out Argentina. And you're not going to convince them to go to the polls and vote by continuing to fund foreign wars and foreign countries and foreign causes. You're going to get them to go to the polls and vote when you show up to work and actually fix the problems that they face every single day.
- [04:26]
Anthony
So, two things there. First of all, she's talking about what happened on Tuesday, Election Day of last week, where, as we've noted before, Democrats did really well in places like New Jersey and Virginia and Republicans took it on the chin. And then she's pointing towards foreign policy and in particular, Argentina. This is in reference to a bailout that the Trump administration has done to try to support the Argentinian currency to the tune of $20 billion of the United States trying to stabilize the Argentinian peso and possibly promises of more money to come and promises that the United States could even start to support and buy Argentinian beef. And that has triggered a whole bunch of conservatives, including Marjorie Taylor Greene, who are up in arms about America First. Should Be focusing on America, not Argentina.
- [05:17]
Justin
Before we go any further, Anthony, let's talk about beef. Or actually, let's let Donald Trump talk about beef, because he was talking about beef. And this is the, the line from him. It was actually on Air Force One, wasn't it, a month or so ago? This is what he told reporters about that support potentially for the industry, the beef industry in Argentina.
- [05:37]
Donald Trump (Air Force One Clip)
We would buy some beef from Argentina. If we do that, that will bring our beef prices down because our groceries are down, our energy prices are down. I think we're going to have $2 gasoline pretty soon. We're getting close and everything's down. The one thing that's kept up is beef. And if we buy some beef, I'm not talking about that much from Argentina. It would help Argentina, which we consider a very good country, a very good.
- [06:00]
Donald Trump
Ally in a place.
- [06:03]
Donald Trump (Air Force One Clip)
Although I must tell you, if you take a look now, South America is turning. Those South American countries are starting to turn very much toward us.
- [06:10]
Mariana
And it's interesting because a lot of that beef about beef is playing out on social media. And I think it's worth dissecting a little bit the sort of makeup of the MAGA influencer world on social media. So there have been quite a few. We mentioned Marjorie Taylor Greene, obviously, who is a politician, but very vocal online. There have also been people like conservative commentator Tommy Lauren and Thomas Massie who have essentially gone in quite hard and said, this plan is not America First. So Tommy Lauren, for example, posted on X towards the end of October saying flooding the market with Argentinian beef is not America first is a huge betrayal of our American cattlemen. What this is is a giant gift to the greedy meat packers who undercut our American ranches by importing foreign beef and passing it off as a product of USA due to the fact we do not have a country of origin labeling laws. And this kind of narrative has been echoed by quite a lot of the very vocal MAGA influences. I think it's worth understanding that quite a few of these kinds of influences are really vocal on topics like farming. And I mean, the whole, the whole thing is make America great again. The whole point of it is kind of saying, look, we want stuff to be American. We want to invest in American farmers, farmers and businesses and products. I think that actually I've really noticed it and I know we'll get into it more. But the split that's happening in terms of like the MAGA influencer world, which has sort of taken on a bit of a life of its own and quite frequently is actually often holding Trump more accountable than even the people who don't like Trump very much and wouldn't vote for him. And so we've got to this place where topics like this are all the time kind of igniting these endless rows on X, which still actually remains a pretty influential platform in terms of directing the political conversation.
- [07:50]
Justin
And in response, the White House, rather than having a kind of coherent view that it can explain to people this word narrative where everyone kind of signs up and says, aha, that's what you're doing. It's fair to say, isn't it, Anthony? It's a bit bitty, isn't it? There are things here or there. There's this weird thing about cash handouts, which is essentially I was listening to a conservative the other day saying, well, this is basically a cash handout that is from your grandchildren because it's all borrowed money and they'll eventually have to not exactly pay it back, but they will pay it back and the interest rates will be higher in the future than they'll otherwise be. And this 50 year mortgage thing, explain that. Have you got a 50 year mortgage?
- [08:33]
Anthony
I do not have a 50 year mortgage. I have a 30 year mortgage, which is a standard mortgage length in the United States. It's interesting going back to that, that clip of Donald Trump on Air Force One talking about the Argentinian beef. He's saying it's going to lower prices. And I think that is the key thing to take away from how Trump sees this is that he's become very sensitive to the idea that he is not doing enough to address rising costs, something he promised on the campaign trail. And he did. Republicans did pay a price for it because Democrats focused on this term affordability in those off year elections last year. And that's one of the reasons why the Republicans seem to not do as well. So Donald Trump, over the past week, despite saying, well, no prices are going down, he has started to pivot towards trying to find new policies that will address the economy, address the fact that Americans feel like they don't have enough money to afford all of these things, foods and cars and electricity prices. And so then you see Donald Trump floating the idea of cash handouts, a $2,000 payment to all low and middle income Americans who are struggling because this is coming from tariff revenue. He says the tariff revenue is going to fund these $2,000 cash payouts and then the rest is going to go to paying down the budget deficit. The reality, however, is that the tariffs aren't bringing in enough money to cover those things. And then 50 year mortgage is the idea. Well a 30 year mortgage is expensive because housing prices are high. But if you spread that out over 50 years then you would be able to have lower monthly payments and afford more house and more easily be able to get a house. But that has prompted criticism from some on the right who say all you're doing by having a 50 year mortgage is making it more expensive.
- [10:24]
Justin
Should we listen to Donald Trump because he was on the Laura Ingraham show on Fox just this week.
- [10:30]
Laura Ingraham
Right, but let me get to the question though because your housing director has proposed something that has enraged your magazine friends, which is this 50 year mortgage idea. So a significant MAGA backlash, calling it a giveaway to the banks and simply prolonging the time it would take for Americans to own a home outright. Is that really a good idea?
- [10:51]
Donald Trump
It's not even a big deal. I mean, you know, you go from 40 to 50 years and what 30 is, you pay, you pay something less from 30 that some people had a 40 and then they have a 50. All it means is you pay less per month. You pay it over a longer period of time. It's not like a big factor. It might help a little bit. But the problem was that Biden did this. He increased the interest rates and I have a lousy Fed person who's going to be gone in a few months. Fortunately I have a guy too late, you know, Jerome Powell, we call him too late. He was too late in everything except when it came to before the, you know, the Democrat, so called Democrat election which didn't work. But we're going to get interest rates down. But even with interest rates up, the economy's the strongest it's ever been.
- [11:34]
Justin
It's interesting to hear him under such pressure from Laura Ingraham on Fox of all people and of all places and also as Anthony was mentioning and let's listen again on that key subject of inflation.
- [11:46]
Donald Trump
And if you remember when I first came in the first two days I had a news conference. Eggs. They were hitting me with eggs. Eggs had quadrupled in price and they're screaming at me. I said I just got here, I didn't know about eggs. And Brooke Rollins, our agricultural commissioner did a good secretary, did a great job and now eggs are what they were. We got eggs down, we get it all down. But our prices is much, are much lower. Their line is prices. Affordability, that's the new word, affordability. It's much less expensive under Trump and you'll and I haven't been here long. Nine months is not a long time. But look at what I've done to energy. Look at the price of gasoline going from 450 to 250 or 270. It's going to be two DOL. Gasoline.
- [12:30]
Laura Ingraham
People want affordable.
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Donald Trump
Economy is my thing. And we have the greatest economy in history.
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Laura Ingraham
Are Republicans not selling it enough for Republicans?
- [12:37]
Donald Trump
Don't talk about it.
- [12:38]
Mariana
Do you remember we. I'm sure we did an episode, one of the episodes where we were kind of looking ahead to what might happen during this presidency where we said, will there be a moment where the tension between the ideological things that Donald Trump has long committed to, around issues like immigration or culture wars or all of that stuff, find itself sort of rubbing up against the economy question? Because actually, the things that he's doing from an ideological point of view might not be solving the economy problem, eg, the beef thing, for example. You know, it's like actually, well, tariffs, for example. Tariffs, yeah, exactly, exactly. Does it feel like we've reached the point where those two things are sort of crashing or we're not quite there yet?
- [13:15]
Justin
Anthony.
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Anthony
Right. And the economy is what Donald Trump ran on and won on last year. I mean, the other things were important to certain constituencies, but it was inflation and prices in the economy that I think really did deliver the White House to Donald Trump. And Justin, maybe this will sound familiar to you, but an American president talking about how the problem is that the Americans really don't understand how good things are and the economy is much better than it was or it is than they think it is. Did that work? The last time a president tried to.
- [13:49]
Justin
Do that, he even named his own economy, didn't it? Bidenomics, which I remember at the time, people like James Carville saying, don't pick your most unpopular policy and attach your actual name to it. And several expletives as well, being James Carver. And yeah, Donald Trump does really genuinely seem to be doing that, doesn't he? He's doubling down on this economy thing. He said there, didn't he, on the economy. It's the greatest economy in history. And plainly, to a lot of people, it doesn't feel like it.
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Mariana
Justin, what do you think about the bit where he's asked, you know, the Republicans are not selling it enough? And he's like, yes, the Republicans don't talk about it almost. He's not a Republican.
- [14:29]
Justin
Yeah, well, the thing is, he's not, is he? And they have been in his thrall all the way through. And if he doesn't deliver for them at what stage? And this goes to the wider question, I suppose, of MAGA crack up, at what stage do they begin to genuinely fall out with him? And we've had sort of vague fallings out during the course of what we've been talking about so far, but you could imagine things becoming quite a lot worse. And also if they begin to feel that rather than being on his coattails and doing well on his coattails, it's actually the other way around. And he's a drag on them, the extent to which, the speed with which. Actually, Anthony, that's the point, isn't it? They begin to ditch him. And I suppose the acid test is in a year's time is the midterms. But I wonder if the economy continues to go downhill, might he be rescued by the Supreme Court saying, in whenever it is a few weeks time, actually, you know what, the tariffs or a lot of the tariffs are illegal, so he can't do them. So he then doesn't do them. So inflation goes down. I mean, it's not exactly a preplanned move, is it? But could it work?
- [15:36]
Anthony
I mean, I was talking to economists for an article I wrote just the other day on Donald Trump's new focus on affordability. And the economist said, yeah, the best thing that Donald Trump could do in her mind for the economy would be to get rid of the tariffs, because those are pushing up prices. Certainly don't do a $2,000 payment where you're giving people more money to chase a limited number of goods that also could push up prices. So there's the possibility that despite himself on these tariffs, Donald Trump could end up in a better place. Or it could give Trump the ability to scapegoat the Supreme Court, saying, well, I wanted to do my economic policies and the tariffs were doing so great. This was a huge issue, and he's talking that way right now, that this is almost a life or death issue for the United States having these tariffs. The court took them away from me, and so they're the ones responsible. Whether voters buy that in a year from now, if things are going bad, that's a whole nother question.
- [16:38]
Mariana
Doesn't a lot of this come down to whether the things that Donald Trump is doing, doing actually do improve the economy? Because surely there's a constituent of people who voted, like you say, Anthony, for Donald Trump during the election who were like, I just want life. And we spoke about this loads on the podcast. And I remember after we'd been out in Atlanta and Other places, it was the thing that we said it, you know, none of it was about threats to democracy or any of those things. People weren't worried about that. They were worried about money. And surely there'll be quite a few people who, if the economy does kind of pick up, if it does feel like life is, is less expensive, they'll be like, okay, fine, by whatever means you've got to do it, just do it. And I guess you're counting on the fact that the MAGA kind of committed group of people who really ideologically are opposed to some of the things Donald Trump is suggesting are loud and vocal on social media, but actually they don't make up the vast majority of people who voted for Donald Trump during the election. They're influential.
- [17:33]
Justin
That's an absolutely key point because that is the difference between being a politician who wants to deliver things and being an influencer who actually really wants to.
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Mariana
Make money and wants views and likes. I mean, it's pretty good. Disagree with Donald Trump.
- [17:49]
Justin
I mean, I just, I don't know what you think about this, Anthony. I just wonder whether the Republicans have got themselves into a situation where the influencers are a little too influency within the party and the influencers own raison d' etre is to serve themselves.
- [18:07]
Mariana
It's the attention economy.
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Justin
It's the attention economy. Whereas, and we always talk about the attention economy economy and it is really important. It's important for politicians. Absolutely. But as a politician you have also got to deliver and the influences don't have to deliver that. They have all these kind of high minded conversations about matters of great principle and all the rest of it and they love to have these rifts and these arguments and all the rest of it between influencers because they don't all agree about anything. But meanwhile the economy goes south and they're going to notice too late. That's the thrust of the piece.
- [18:44]
Anthony
Yeah. We've talked about how successful Donald Trump's campaign was last year and part of the reason he was so successful is because he used those influencers to connect with new audiences and to turn out voters who didn't always participate in the political process and to convince young men in particular to come out and vote and to support his presidential campaign. But using them and campaigning where influencers may be very influential is one thing. And then governing and turning policies into actual reality, proposals into reality is an entirely different question. And you're right. I think if you don't address what voters say they want, then there's a Very real vulnerability. I mean, I want to read Shaun Davis, who is the CEO, founder the Federalist, which is an online website that has been very supportive of Donald Trump in the past. He's a former Republican economic adviser. He wrote this about what the Republicans are trying to define themselves as or their lack of message even. He says, where is the path to the American dream right now? Who is giving them a vision of a future worth fighting for? You cannot have a viable country or future when half of your country and all its young people are locked out of the economy and locked out of ever owning a home or much of anything beyond next month's streaming subscription. Does anyone in Washington care about this? Anyone at all? And he warns that Republicans, if they don't pay attention to this, are going to pay a price. So here's someone saying, it is the economy, stupid, and if you ignore that, then you're gonna lose the American public.
- [20:25]
Mariana
I think a really interesting thing about some of these MAGA influences on X and on TikTok and other places is that they've essentially built their influence and following by being hyper, hypercritical of the last administration, so of Joe Biden and the kind of political establishment, what they would call the kind of political elites. And that's why Donald Trump could use them so effectively during the election, because his whole narrative was around that, like, we're going to deal with the political elites, I'm going to actually kind of stick up for you, etc. Etc. And I think that what is worth saying is, on the one hand, social media and not the real world and real voters and their experience of life are obviously actually ultimately the thing that does matter the most, or certainly in terms of getting votes. Yes. However, the ability to influence and distort particular narratives in public life in terms of these MAGA influences is massive. And we need only look at what's happened around Jeffrey Epstein and the Epstein files and all of that to actually see that the, the most pressure that has been put on Donald Trump has been by the MAGA influences and their ability to. To redirect that conversation.
- [21:25]
Justin
So true. That isn't it. And it's exactly as you suggest. It's at a psychological level, you're leaving politics behind. It's the need to be transgressive and endlessly interesting and vivid and more extreme than you were last Tuesday or whatever.
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Mariana
Otherwise you're a nobody.
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Justin
Otherwise you're a nobody. And that, in a sense, is why you then get. So you get all the Jeffrey Epstein stuff. And that's about to come back big time. But you also had, which Anthony and I talked about and mentioned a pod or two ago about Nick Fuentes, this guy who is far, far right, an admirer, he says himself, of Adolf Hitler. And he's suddenly in the kind of influencer world in the MAGA sphere. He's being talked about almost as if that is acceptable. And then other Republicans saying, hang on a second, that can't possibly be acceptable. But of course, if you are a far right influencer and if you think of yourself as being MAGA as well, you're gonna wanna go there because it's interesting and people talk about it. And it starts with Tucker Carlson, who has gone in a direction of his own. He used to be on Fox News and now got very much his own empire. And that, I think, that Anthony, is. It's not such an easy thing for Donald Trump just to snap his fingers and say enough. I mean, he tried it with the Epstein stuff, didn't he? And it hasn't really worked.
- [22:50]
Anthony
No, it hasn't worked. And Donald Trump is famous for being very well attuned to his base and what his base wants. But in the Epstein instance, he appears to be out of step from where a lot of people in his base are. And that's why you see some Republican politicians, Marjorie Taylor Greene being one of them, who doesn't show a whole lot of concern with crossing Trump there. Because Trump's biggest threat against most Republicans is that I will turn my base against you and you will be ruined. You'll lose your primary contest. When you try to run for reelection, you'll never hold office in this country again. They don't think that Donald Trump can do that on Epstein. And I think this gets to the bigger kind of challenge for Trump and the Republicans is that it's very easy when you're out of power to unite around criticizing the people who are in power. Once you get that power, then you have all of these different factions is a real challenge. And it's one where we're starting to see some tears, some strains on the fabric of the Republican Party just in nine months that Trump's been back.
- [23:58]
Mariana
I think as well, it's worth thinking about the difference this time around for Donald Trump in terms of the kind of social media landscape versus his first presidency. Twitter was a completely different beast back then. Ultimately, what was allowed on the platform was more controlled than the current situation. And what that meant was that some of these people we're talking about, like Nick Fuentes, would be quite a good example of that a lot of these people didn't have the voice, the megaphone that they now do have in terms of the reach that they have online and the ability to influence or shape the political conversation. Now that Elon Musk owns X, Musk has changed the rules completely. He's got rid of lots of the teams and moderation policies and various other things. And so that has kind of changed what Donald Trump is grappling with. And I think that also highlights this quite interesting dynamic between the sort of social media bosses and the way that they also shape the political conversation and what's happening to the Republican Party. People might remember at the end of last year, Musk called some Trump supporters, quote, contemptible fools who must be removed from the Republican Party root and system. And this was all about this debate around these H1B immigration visas, wasn't it? And about what they should do about them.
- [25:11]
Justin
But that's another, a really important rift, isn't it, in the MAGA movement? So we've talked about the difference between those who want to think about other things and shout about other things and don't care about the economy versus those who care very much about the economy. And we've got some examples, have some examples on both sides. There is also, Anthony, isn't there, where Marianna brings up that business of the visas that is also, it's a split about the visas and whether they should be there. But that is actually emblematic, isn't it, of a bigger thing, which is should you be shipping in foreigners, including very highly educated foreigners, to keep the American economy like best tech companies. Yeah. And to keep the tech companies at the top of their game, or should you actually do the opposite?
- [25:57]
Anthony
Yeah. And Donald Trump has campaigned. I mean, a central focus of his political movement is American jobs for Americans. Right. So it was really fascinating to see that he has landed now on the side of, well, you know, there are certain jobs that Americans can't do. And that's why we need this H1B visa program that brings in tens of thousands of skilled foreign workers to fill jobs that there is not the Americans who are trained to do. I mean, we saw it with this immigration bust down in Savannah, Georgia, where it was Koreans who had been brought in by Hyundai in order to fill training jobs and skilled jobs that were part of producing batteries for cars. And we see it, as you mentioned, Marianna, with tech companies in particular. And actually, so we've gone back time and time again to this interview that Trump did with Laura Ingraham and the way she pressed him on some of the divisions within Trump's movement. And this came up again and again. Trump was kind of on his back foot trying to defend himself against criticism from within his own movement.
- [27:09]
Donald Trump
We have potentially the greatest already. It is, but we have, when these things open up, there's never going to be a country like what we have right now. And does that mean the Republicans have to talk about it?
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Laura Ingraham
And does that mean the H1B visa thing will not be a big priority administration? Because if you want to raise wages for American workers, you can't flood the country with tens of thousands or hundreds.
- [27:31]
Anthony
Of thousands of foreign workers.
- [27:32]
Donald Trump
Also do have to bring in talent.
- [27:34]
Laura Ingraham
When we have plenty of talented people.
- [27:36]
Donald Trump
No, you don't.
- [27:37]
Anthony
No, you don't.
- [27:37]
Laura Ingraham
We don't have talented people.
- [27:38]
Donald Trump
No, you don't have, you don't have certain talents. And you have to, people have to learn. You can't take people off an unemployment, like an unemployment line and say, I'm going to put you into a factory. We're going to make missiles. Or I'm going to put.
- [27:50]
Laura Ingraham
How did we ever do it before when you and I were coming?
- [27:52]
Donald Trump
I'll give you an example. In Georgia, they raided because they wanted illegal immigrants out. They had people from South Korea that made batteries all their lives. You know, making batteries are very complicated. It's not an easy thing and very dangerous. A lot of explosions, a lot of problems. They had like five or six hundred people, early stages to make batteries and to teach people how to do it. Well, they wanted them to get out of the country. You're going to need that, Laura. I mean, I know you and I disagree on this. You can't just say a country's coming in, going to invest $10 billion to build a plant and going to take people off an unemployment line who haven't worked in five years and they're going to start making missiles. It doesn't work that way.
- [28:35]
Justin
Well, can I just say, there's something about Donald Trump and batteries, isn't there?
- [28:39]
Mariana
She was pushing him.
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Justin
She was pushing. I mean, this is another thing about Donald Trump which we should say for all that you kind of laugh at some of the things he says, et cetera, et cetera, and sometimes he says things just aren't the case. But my goodness, compared with the last president, is he out there? I mean, yes, it's Fox News and yes, in a sense it's a friendly place. But Laura Ingraham was pressing him on things that will concern Fox News viewers.
- [29:04]
Anthony
Yeah, that clip was fascinating because he Tried to lean back on his standard rhetoric. Right. The greatest country. We're going to be great. When things open up, things are never going to be better. And Ingraham didn't have any of it. Pushed him on it to the point where Trump was talking about, they raided this South Korea Hyundai plant. That's Donald Trump's own administration. His own immigration enforcement officials raided that and rounded up a bunch of South Koreans and created a big diplomatic stink with the government of South Korea. And that illustrated the tension between his immigration policy and his economic policy. But you make a good point, Justin. He. Donald Trump has been incredibly accessible and he's been out there and he answers our questions. And actually one of the things that the White House has broached as an idea to try to address these affordability concerns is that they're going to have him start going out around the country and making speeches again, whether at rallies or at events. It'll be interesting to see if they follow through on that. And if he does go out there and start holding rallies again, One, does he still get the kind of attention and attendance that he did during the campaign? And two, what kind of a reception will he get? Because if he stands on the stage at a rally and starts talking about how Americans aren't able to do these jobs and that we don't have enough talented people here, I think that's gonna be a very real problem for him. He may not like the response he gets.
- [30:30]
Mariana
I was just looking again at what Trump had said. I've got the transcript in front of me of what he'd said in that interview. And just. Yeah, when he says things like they raid, you know, they raided them because they wanted illegal immigrants out, it sounds like he's setting himself up to be like, that's not what I want. Which really is like completely different to everything that he's.
- [30:49]
Justin
But that has worked for him in the past.
- [30:50]
Mariana
What did you just sort of say?
- [30:51]
Justin
A new law. Political Houdini, isn't he? And I just wonder whether. Yeah.
- [30:55]
Mariana
That it's now like, this is what I think now. Well, exactly.
- [30:58]
Justin
So basically we're saying of the Republicans, they're by no means in the desperate straits that the Democrats were in at least immediately after the election, but they are cracking and there are going to be difficulties for them. And Anthony, there naturally will be, won't there? That is part of the electoral cycle. It's kind of baked into your system in a way, isn't it?
- [31:19]
Anthony
Yeah, I think that's something that we're gonna have to remind our Americast listeners of time and time again is that this is what happens in the second term of a presidency. And we know we've talked about Donald Trump being a unique political personality, but the laws of gravity, the laws of, of political gravity still apply to him. And that is that he's not going to run for a third term. Barring some sort of miraculous change in the Constitution, his name is not gonna be on the ballot again. And the closer we get to 2028, the more the Republicans who are gonna be around are gonna start thinking about what life after Donald Trump looks like. And so that's why you see this scrambling, this increasing voices starting to come forward, trying to define what MAGA Make America great again means outside of what Donald Trump is, what the Republican Party should represent, whether it should focus more on American workers or H1B visas, it should focus more on supporting friendly foreign governments in our places like Argentina or focusing on the American economy. All of these things are kind of the direction of the MAGA movement and drawing lines and defining it in a way that, that as every day goes by, Donald Trump will have less and less of a say over.
- [32:38]
Justin
Okay, that's about it for our discussion of what I think we can now call the pre post Trump world. So we're not there yet in the post Trump world, but we are talking at least about what begins to happen as we approach that world, which is gonna be a fascinating world to be in. But before we go, Marianna.
- [32:54]
Mariana
Yes.
- [32:54]
Justin
You and Anthony got together for the last one. You didn't involve me, but it sounds like a cracker.
- [32:59]
Mariana
We didn't involve you. Not on purpose. No conspiracy theories here. Yeah. So we did this episode that was really interesting, which is in the Americas feed. People can go and listen to it. Yesterday we were chatting to CNN senior legal analyst Ellie Hoenig and it was answering all of the questions about this legal case or the threat of a legal case from Donald Trump against the BBC over this edited bit of a Panorama program. The speech that Donald Trump gave on January 6th and. And yeah, and all of the fallout of that. But it's really interesting because he answered a our questions just about like how feasible legal action is, what it actually means, what it could look like in future podcasts.
- [33:36]
Justin
Well, I couldn't take part because I had to stay at home with the dog. And I explained to the dog that it is very important actually. These things really matter. But it just looked at me with such sweet eyes that I couldn't lead. Anyway, you've both done it wonderfully. That's it. Bye bye.
- [33:49]
Mariana
Bye bye. Ameracast. Ameracast from BBC News.
- [33:57]
AmericasT Outro Host
Well done for getting all the way to the end of another AmericasT episode. That makes you officially an ameracaster. It's not easy navigating your way through the news in America, particularly at the moment, but you did it and we're delighted to have you with us. So if you do have a comment or a question about any of the stories we've talked about or anything you'd like us to talk about, do please get in touch. You can email us americastbc.co.uk, you can WhatsApp us a message on 033-01-2390. And we do answer your questions every single week on the podcast. You can always join the discussion in our online community on Discord. The link is in our podcast description in your app. And we'll be back with another episode very soon. Till then, see you later.
- [34:39]
Mariana
Bye bye.
- [34:53]
Marjorie Taylor Greene
America is changing and so is the world.
- [34:57]
Mariana
But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.
- [35:05]
Marjorie Taylor Greene
I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. i'm.
- [35:08]
Mariana
Tristan Redman in London, and this is the Global Story. Every weekday, we'll bring you a story.
- [35:13]
Marjorie Taylor Greene
From this this intersection where the world and America meet.
- [35:17]
Mariana
Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.