Americast – Are ICE Immigration Agents Acting Outside the Law?

Date: January 23, 2026
Host: BBC News
Main presenters: Justin Webb, Mariana Spring, Anthony Zurcher
Guest: John Sandweg (Former Acting Director of ICE under Obama)

Overview

This episode investigates the current state of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) under President Trump’s second term, exploring claims that agents are acting outside the law and beyond their traditional remit. The Americast team unpacks how ICE’s role, methods, and accountability have changed, the scale and consequences of mass deportations, and the rapidly intensifying public backlash following high-profile confrontations across American cities—most notably, recent events in Minneapolis.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. How ICE Has Changed Under Trump (01:40 – 03:54)

• Increased Scale and Funding:
  • ICE originated after 9/11 for enforcing immigration laws inside the U.S.
  • Under Trump, ICE has received a dramatic increase in attention and funding—$75 billion in a recent spending bill—allowing a more expansive operation and hiring surge.
  • Target: 3,000 arrests and deportations per day, amounting to over one million annually.
  • Quote:

    “It’s not just criminals... you can’t get to that number, 3,000 a day, without deporting people who... the only laws they violated were the immigration laws.”
    – Anthony, 04:19

2. Who’s Being Targeted and Who’s in Charge? (03:54 – 06:49)

• Beyond Criminals:
  • Enforcement casts a much wider net, including many with no criminal record.
  • Trump administration’s public framing emphasizes violent criminals but the reality sweeps up average workers and families.
• Leadership Dynamics:
  • Stephen Miller remains the driving force behind aggressive enforcement tactics; strategies are designed both for removals and as deterrence.
  • Major drop in attempted border crossings (“encounters”) compared to the Biden years, due to visible deterrence.

3. Public Impact, Backlash, and Notorious Incidents (06:49 – 13:41)

• Community Disruption:
  • ICE activity increasingly visible, leading to confrontations, especially in cities like Minneapolis.
  • The killing of Renee Goode, an unarmed woman, has triggered national scrutiny; reports of aggressive ICE behavior, including actions against U.S. citizens.
• Governor and Mayor Reactions:
  • Gov. Tim Walz (MN) on ICE:

    “Armed, masked, undertrained ICE agents are going door to door, ordering people to point out where their neighbors of color live... kidnapping innocent people with no warning and no due process.” (09:58)

  • Mayor Jacob Frey (Minneapolis):

    “We will not be intimidated by the actions of this federal government... Yes, [citizens] are able to record what is happening, taking place... we are not going to take the bait.” (10:42)

• Distressing Examples:
  • Arrest and detention of 5-year-old Liam Ramos and his father; photographs of a 56-year-old U.S. citizen, Chong Li Scott Tao, detained in freezing temperatures, released after mistaken identity.
  • Quote:

    “Even people who support the policy would... start to think, oh, I’m not. Why are you focusing on people like that?”
    – Mariana, 12:09

4. Shifting Public Opinion & Political Ramifications (13:41 – 15:08)

• Social Media Impact:
  • Undercover Voters segment: Hispanic, politically indifferent voters now inundated with distressing stories, souring on Trump.
• Eroded Support:
  • Immigration enforcement—a former Trump stronghold—is now a political liability, particularly among Hispanic voters targeted or caught up in dragnet tactics.
  • Quote:

    “Support for immigration enforcement [is] dropping to net negative overall... it is becoming a political liability for Donald Trump.”
    – Anthony, 14:07

5. Official Defense of ICE and Presidential Response (15:08 – 17:21)

• ICE and Administration Statements:
  • US Border Patrol Commander Gregory Bovino:

    “Our operations are lawful, they're targeted, and they're focused on individuals who pose a serious threat to this community... they are not random and they are not political.” (15:27)

  • President Trump acknowledges “mistakes” but defends policy, expressing regret over individual tragedies while emphasizing focus on violent criminals:

    “Sometimes ICE is going to be too rough... Sometimes it can happen. We feel terribly... But her father was a tremendous, and parents were tremendous Trump fans... it’s a hard, hard situation.” (16:06)

In-Depth Interview: John Sandweg, Former ICE Acting Director (17:57 – 29:52)

Training, Deployment, and the Changing Culture

• Reduced Training for New Agents (18:52 – 20:34)

  • Standard ICE agent training has shrunk from 13 weeks to 8 weeks to meet ambitious hiring goals.
  • Background checks and vetting have been loosened; experience thresholds lowered.
  • Quote:

    “We’ve seen the training shrink from a 13 week standard course now down to an eight week... alarmingly, the next two, three years, we’re gonna see all these new agents hitting the streets with a lot less training than they had before.”
    – John Sandweg, 19:31

• Rules of Engagement and Deployment (21:47 – 24:09)

  • Use of force rules “pretty much the same” as other US law enforcement: escalate only when necessary, deadly force only if lives are at risk.
  • The real issue is ICE agents doing tasks they are untrained for—large-scale, street-level encounters with civilians and protesters.
  • Quote:

    “ICE agents typically are not encountering people in motor vehicles ... they’re being deployed in a way that’s inconsistent with their training.”
    – John Sandweg, 23:20

• Diversion of Focus and National Security Risks (24:26 – 26:29)

  • ICE’s former focus—serious criminal investigations (e.g., terrorism, smuggling, cartel activity)—has been sidelined in favor of mass immigrant detentions.
  • Other federal agents (FBI, DEA) redeployed to ICE, risking neglect of critical national security cases.
  • Quote:

    “We’re pulling these 7,000 agents who were focused on those national security, public safety things... get on the streets of Minneapolis and get those immigrants off the streets. I have real concerns with that.”
    – John Sandweg, 25:11

• Erosion of Culture and Internal Accountability (26:59 – 28:33)

  • Experienced, public safety-oriented mid-level ICE supervisors are being replaced by ideologically driven appointees.
  • A “culture change” at the agency could foster extremism, reduce internal checks, and undermine public safety.
  • Quote:

    “My frustration is we’re using ICE like it’s a political weapon in a way that’s advancing a political agenda... ICE exists to protect, to make America safe... not just red America or blue America.”
    – John Sandweg, 27:50

• Body Cameras and Oversight (28:33 – 29:52)

  • ICE is rolling out body cameras—could aid both officer protection and accountability—but crucial internal watchdogs have been dismantled.
  • Top administration figures promise legal immunity for aggressive tactics, undermining attempts at accountability.
  • Quote:

    “The cameras will be helpful. But at the end of the day, it’s about what are you going to do if you see something you don’t like? And that’s the million-dollar question.”
    – John Sandweg, 29:39

Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On Public Perception and Policy Drift:

  "You can't get to those numbers without also sweeping up a vast larger group of people... they envisioned getting the criminals out, but not your gardeners and your landscapers, the people who are building your houses and everyone else."
  – Anthony, 04:19

• Governor Tim Walz's Alarm:

  "Armed, masked, undertrained ICE agents are going door to door... kidnapping innocent people with no warning and no due process. Let's be very, very clear, this long ago stopped being a matter of immigration enforcement."
  – Governor Tim Walz, 09:58

• On ICE's Changing Focus:

  "All those agents who spend their time trying to stop... the illicit export of weapons, they're spending way more time now walking the streets... trying to get run of the mill migrants."
  – John Sandweg, 25:19

• On Internal Culture and Motivation:

  "Those senior mid-level career public safety law enforcement... they're being pushed out and people who are ideologically pure being put in. And that's when it gets scary..."
  – John Sandweg, 27:13

Timestamps for Major Segments

• ICE under Trump: Institutional Changes - 01:40 – 03:54
• Who’s Being Targeted? – 03:54 – 06:49
• Public Protests, Minneapolis Focus – 06:49 – 13:41
• Political Opinion Shift and Social Media – 13:41 – 15:08
• Administration's Defense (ICE & Trump Statements) – 15:08 – 17:21
• Interview with Former Acting ICE Director John Sandweg – 17:57 – 29:52

Conclusion

This episode presents a detailed, critical look at the transformation of ICE in 2026, contending with new leadership, political priorities, allegations of misconduct, and an eroding public mandate. The team weaves together events on the ground, statements from authorities and critics, and insights from a former ICE leader, painting a sobering picture of an agency at a crossroads—raising urgent questions about law enforcement, accountability, and America’s identity as a nation of immigrants.