Can Donald Trump afford a trade war with Canada?

Summary

Americast: “Can Donald Trump afford a trade war with Canada?”

BBC News | March 12, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Americast dives deep into President Donald Trump’s escalating trade tensions with Canada—examining the economic, political, and global ripple effects of his threatened tariffs and the chaotic tit-for-tat responses. The hosts, Sarah Smith, Justin Webb, and Anthony Zurcher, dissect Trump’s unpredictable trade maneuvers, the business and political backlash in both the US and Canada, and what it all means for Trump’s own base, global markets, and his administration’s future. With a few sharp listener questions and the usual BBC insight, the episode unpacks a high-wire week for North American trade and politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump Buys a Tesla—A Sign of the Times

• [01:12] President Trump makes a showy purchase of a Tesla. Though he can never actually drive it (presidents are forbidden by the Secret Service), the moment is significant: Tesla’s stock is down, Elon Musk is embattled, and the broader economy is roiling amid chaos Trump himself has stoked.
  • “The buying of the Tesla is an important moment because it comes as Tesla's stock price falls. It comes as Elon Musk's stock price is perhaps falling and amid considerable economic chaos.” – Justin [01:53]

2. Whiplash on Recession and Market Instability

• [03:36]–[05:23] The hosts discuss Trump’s “diplomatic high wire act” amid surging economic uncertainty—a week marked by mixed signals about recession, dropping stock markets, and retractions of alarming statements.
  • Trump initially appears unconcerned about the prospect of a recession, then walks it back under pressure.
  • “Just so you know... I don't see it at all. I think this country is going to boom. But as I said, I can do it the easy way or the hard way. The hard way... is exactly what I'm doing. But the results are going to be 20 times greater.” – Trump [04:44]
  • “Business hates that kind of instability.” – Sarah [04:07]

3. Tariffs, Retaliation, and the Canada Angle

• [06:01]–[09:27]
  • Canada slaps a 25% reciprocal tariff on $29 billion CAD of American goods in response to US tariffs.
  • Ontario Premier Doug Ford retaliates, threatening a 25% surcharge on electricity exports to US states and hints he might escalate further.
    • “I will not hesitate to increase this charge if necessary. If the United States escalates, I will not hesitate to shut the electricity off completely.” – Doug Ford [07:54]
  • An hour later, Ford climbs down, suspending surcharges after speaking with Trump, highlighting the volatility and confusion of the current trade environment.

4. Business Backlash and Economic Chaos

• [09:27]–[11:53]
  • Business leaders, meeting with Trump at the Business Roundtable, voice frustration with the uncertainty, warning it stifles investment and hiring.
    • “They couldn't take the uncertainty... They have to make decisions based on economic data.” – Anthony [10:30]
    • “In the simplest terms, that means they don't open new branches or new factories... They're just not going to invest in that when it all seems so incredibly chaotic and unstable.” – Sarah [11:34]

5. Are Tariffs Good Policy? A Split Debate

• [11:53]–[13:15]
  • The hosts detail the Trump Administration’s vision for tariffs: as a tool not just to “reshore” manufacturing but to generate government revenue.
  • Canada, as America’s top trading partner, is directly in Trump’s crosshairs.
  • There’s an open question on whether tariff policy can possibly achieve its goals without devastating unintended consequences.

6. Canadian Political Backlash and National Sentiment

• [13:15]–[14:02]
  • Trump’s half-joking comments about Canada becoming the 51st state and calling Prime Minister Trudeau “Governor Trudeau” have stoked real anger and nationalist sentiment north of the border.
  • “It's really wound people up so much... the politics is, they want their politicians to stand up to Donald Trump and not take this.” – Sarah [13:15]

7. Trump’s Transactional Worldview and International Response

• [14:02]–[15:43]
  • The EU quickly imposes its own reciprocal tariffs, while the UK hesitates.
  • Trump’s approach—lacking “permanent allies or permanent enemies”—has left even America’s closest friends angry and defensive.
    • “The downside for him is that, when you really do upset people who you need for something else... the people themselves are getting to a stage where they’re not going to forget this.” – Justin [15:01]

8. Stock Market: Does Trump (Still) Care?

• [16:13]–[19:17]
  • Listener Chris from London asks about Trump’s attitude toward Wall Street and whether he’s accountable to stock market pressure.
  • The panel notes Trump’s historic fixation on the stock market—contradicted by newer elements in his administration who are openly anti-elite, anti-Wall Street.
    • “Maybe this is Donald Trump unchained and not quite as fixated on the day to day permutations of the stock market indexes.” – Anthony [16:40]
    • “It's a big... But plenty of people in the party do like [Wall Street] and plenty of people in the wider Trump orbit rely on them for their cash.” – Justin [18:20]

9. Remembering Trump’s Campaign Promises

• [20:00]–[21:40]
  • Sarah recalls Trump’s campaign pledges of economic boom and “soaring incomes” and wonders if voters will remain patient as instability grows.
  • “There will be some people still waiting for those soaring incomes and skyrocketing wealth that they were promised.” – Sarah [20:32]
  • Growing risk of Republican Congressional backlash if economic discontent spreads.

10. Tesla, Elon Musk, and MAGA Embarrassment

• [22:07]–[24:16]
  • Despite poor Tesla sales and declining stock, Trump’s public embrace of Musk appears driven by Musk’s political support and financial backing for Republicans.
  • “Even if he stops being the richest man in the world...the bromance really does seem to be absolutely solid between the two of them when you watch them together.” – Sarah [24:02]
  • Many Tesla owners now embarrassed; Musk’s politics collide with car’s liberal consumer image.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Trump’s unpredictability:
  “Minute by minute people are backing down and ramping up. Sometimes it seems in the same sentence. And that... is part of the problem.” – Justin [09:27]

• On business uncertainty:
  “They're just not going to invest in that when it all seems so incredibly chaotic and unstable.” – Sarah [11:34]

• On Canada’s ‘51st state’ backlash:
  “He's kind of creating an enemy across the border... that's not just going to go away.” – Sarah [13:15]

• On Trump’s worldview:
  “He doesn't believe in having permanent allies or permanent enemies...it's always transactional.” – Justin [14:11]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Trump’s Tesla Purchase: [01:12–01:58]
• Recession/Stock Market Reaction: [03:36–05:40]
• Canada Retaliates on Tariffs: [06:01–09:23]
• Business Roundtable and Uncertainty: [09:27–11:53]
• The Case (or Not) for Tariffs: [11:53–13:15]
• Canadian Political Response: [13:15–14:02]
• Global Ripple – EU and UK Response: [14:02–15:43]
• Listener Question on Wall Street: [16:13–19:17]
• Trump’s Campaign Promises vs. Reality: [20:00–21:40]
• Tesla, Elon Musk, and Political Ties: [22:07–24:16]

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Summary Takeaways

• Trump’s impetuous trade threats have set off a chain reaction—leading to higher costs, business reluctance to invest, and nationalist reactions abroad, especially in Canada and the EU.
• The instability and unpredictability of Trump’s policy shifts are now a direct economic issue both for Wall Street and working Americans—plus an emerging political risk for his own party.
• Tensions with Canada have escalated from joking insults to real threats of economic decoupling, with political consequences for both nations.
• Leading industrialists and even Trump’s own voter base are at risk of disillusionment if promised prosperity fails to materialize.
• Trump’s alliances (including with Elon Musk) are seen as transactional and potentially volatile—and so is everything else about his approach to America’s trading relationships.

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This episode provides a vivid, fast-moving portrait of the real-world economic, political, and social fallout from Trump’s trade brinkmanship, through the lens of people, policies, and politics on both sides of the US-Canada border—plus a sharp look at the ripple effects for American business, voters, and the evolving global economic order.

Transcript

[Justin]

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[Justin]

The President of the United States makes a purchase in front of the cameras. And it's not just any old purchase. It's a car. And it's not just any old car. It's a Tesla.

[Anthony]

Hello, President Trump. Are you looking to buy or lease today? Well, I'm gonna buy.

[Donald Trump]

And I'm gonna buy because number one, it' great product, as good as it gets. And number two, because this man has devoted his energy and his life to doing this, I think he's been treated very unfairly by a very small group of people. That's a fast one.

[Justin]

Just to be clear, sir, the 50%.

[Anthony]

Is that going to go into effect on Canada or not?

[Donald Trump]

Which one?

[Anthony]

The 50% tariffs.

[Donald Trump]

I'll let you know about it. This is beautiful.

[Justin]

Whoa.

[Anthony]

Should I get in? Get in.

[Justin]

Okay, two facts. The first important one is that the President of the United States is not allowed to drive. The Secret Service don't let him. And indeed, former presidents aren't either. So he will never drive again, at least on a public road. But here's the second thing. The buying of the Tesla is an important moment because it comes as Tesla's stock price falls. It comes as Elon Musk's stock price is perhaps falling and amid considerable economic chaos. Welcome to AmericasT.

[Sarah]

AmericasT.

[Ad Voice 2]

AmericasT from BBC News, you're gambling with.

[Donald Trump]

The lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War Three.

[Justin]

President Trump's message is very simple.

[Anthony]

We are done Being taken advantage of. Mr. President, in the name of our.

[Ad Voice 2]

God, have mercy upon the people.

[Justin]

We're scared now.

[Sarah]

Are you supportive of these onesies?

[Doug Ford]

I'm supportive of vaccines.

[Anthony]

What is happening, like, this is not America. This is a terrible nightmare.

[Sarah]

This is what victory feels like.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Hello, it's Sarah here in the BBC's bureau in Washington.

[Anthony]

And it's Anthony next to Sarah, also here in Washington.

[Justin]

And it's Justin at home in London, England at quarter past two in the afternoon. London time.

[Sarah]

Yeah, we have to say the time, don't we, Justin? Because who knows what may happen after we record this and before some of our Amerikasters have had a chance to listen to it that may yet change the story. It's continuing to move at great pace here in Washington.

[Anthony]

Yeah, it all started with Donald Trump this weekend talking about the possibility of an economic recession, something that presidents usually try to avoid. But that set off a rather turbulent week where the stock market has dropped precipitously on concerns that maybe Donald Trump is right. And over the course of the past couple days, Donald Trump on trade, on Ukraine, on a variety of different things, is walking kind of a diplomatic high wire act which is only contributing to the uncertainty and instability in these markets. Yeah.

[Sarah]

And it's having a real economic impact, isn't it? Because business hates that kind of instability. So you can see it actually having an impact.

[Justin]

And because business hates that instability. Did we see an unusual sight which is the president kind of publicly walking back something he'd previously said? So as Anthony said, he seemed to suggest he didn't really mind whether there was a recession or not. And then he was asked about it again and had a chance to say this.

[Ad Voice 2]

Mr. President, your comments the other day, not ruling out a potential recession seemed to rattle the stock markets. The Commerce Secretary is going to boom.

[Donald Trump]

Just so you know.

[Ad Voice 2]

Specifically on the recession, do you think there will be a recession?

[Donald Trump]

I don't see it at all. I think this country is going to boom. But as I said, I can do it the easy way or the hard way. The hard way to do it is exactly what I'm doing. But the results are going to be 20 times greater.

[Anthony]

You know, when we spoke on 5 Live on Monday, I broached the possibility that Donald Trump actually wouldn't mind a recession, that he might be, in fact might view one as working in his favor because it lowers interest rates. It also allows the dollar to be somewhat weaker and to boost trade. So a long term goal. But I think you hear there that maybe he's having second thoughts.

[Sarah]

Yeah. The stock market's interesting, isn't it? Because it's not necessarily a measure of how healthy the economy is, but it used to be the one that Donald Trump always used as a metric in his first term. He was always boasting about the stock market. We know he watches it very, very carefully. So he might be more worried about that than economists in the short term.

[Anthony]

And when he campaigned in 2020, he the stock market was gonna crash if Joe Biden won the presidency. Well, here we are now he's back in the White House, and it's not a crash, but we're getting towards where it could be deemed a correction, which is the next thing to a recession. And not the track I think Donald Trump or any Republicans want to be on right now.

[Justin]

Yeah. And there's another track they don't want to be on, and that is not just in the stock market and this kind of slightly rarefied stuff, it obviously affects people's pensions, it affects a lot of people's savings, but something that has a more direct effect. We've talked quite a lot about the price of eggs, but the price of all sorts of things, including electricity, etc. So just as we are speaking, Canada's Finance Minister, Dominic LeBlanc, has announced that there's going to be a 25% reciprocal tariff on an additional huge amount, 29 billion Canadian dollars worth of goods imported from the United States. And of course, the risk there is. Well, it's two ways, isn't it? Number one, the tariffs on Canadian goods and on goods from elsewhere in the world will make those goods more expensive in the United States. There is really simply no question about that, at least in the short term. But number two, this means that these goods will be more expensive in Canada, and that potentially means that they won't be sold as much. And that potentially means, of course, that real people in real areas of the United States, including areas that voted for Donald Trump and vote for Republican candidates, will be chucked out of work.

[Anthony]

These responses were to tariffs that the United States had announced a while ago. It looked for a little while like the United States was going to impose even larger tariffs on Canada, 50% tariffs on steel and aluminum. And that was in response to something that Ontario Premier Doug Ford said where he was threatening to put a surcharge on electricity that was going from Canada to some key northern states like Minnesota, Michigan and New York. It set off a war of words between the two leaders. Here is Ford talking about this response.

[Doug Ford]

We're moving forward with a 25% surcharge on electricity exports for the 1.5 million American homes and businesses that Ontario powers, homes and businesses in Minnesota, Michigan and New York. I will not hesitate to increase this charge if necessary. If the United States escalates, I will not hesitate to shut the electricity off completely.

[Sarah]

And I reported that on the 6 o' clock news yesterday and actually included that clip of Doug Ford. And it seemed like, you know, a very, very big deal at the time. 50% tariffs on steel and aluminium, not least because so much of it's imported into America. All the carmakers, for instance, would, you know, that would really, really up their costs and other people who use it as raw materials. But I think it was about an hour after I broadcast that report, it all changed again. Doug Ford and Donald Trump actually spoke, I think, and then all of a sudden those tariffs were off again. Here's Doug Ford later in the day.

[Doug Ford]

I've agreed to suspend temporarily and we always have that tool in our toolkit until we sit down. Over the next day or two, I'll be heading down to Washington along with Dominic LeBlanc and we'll have a good discussion, you know, with any negotiation that we have. There's a point that both parties are heated and the temperature needs to come down chasind.

[Anthony]

Can we describe that as a chasind Doug Ford? Did he back down?

[Justin]

I'm really confused about who's backing down and who isn't backing down and who's ramping up. I mean, minute by minute people are backing down and ramping up. Sometimes it seems in the same sentence. And that in a sense, Anthony, Sarah is part of the problem, isn't it for business Americans, those who might have voted for Donald Trump but really voted for Donald Trump because they wanted the kind of tax cuts and other business friendly things that he promised them, but actually haven't really voted in their minds for chaos and what they don't like. I mean, there is a case for tariffs. We might get into it in a second. There is a case for long term general tariffs, which some economists might say can work in reshoring, bringing back to a nation its industrial base, if that can be something that you might approach over a few years or even a decade. But just this kind of on off stuff is what is really hammering Donald Trump. It's not just the stock market, is it, or even prices. It's actually business people who are saying, hang on a second, this is not what we voted for.

[Anthony]

Yeah, the Business Roundtable had a big meeting here in Washington, D.C. yesterday that Donald Trump actually went to and spoke to. And the theme from a lot of these gathered executives, business leaders, was that they couldn't take the uncertainty. They didn't want to have to guess what was going to happen next, like we all are doing, because they have to make decisions based on economic data. Do they hire new people? It's not just the 6 o' clock.

[Justin]

News, is it, for them, with great respect to the six o' clock news?

[Anthony]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, they're making longer term decisions and they don't know what the economic climate is going to look like and they don't know what the inputs to a lot of their production supply chains are going to be because they don't know if it's going to cost a lot more for aluminum. They don't know if there are going to be reciprocal tariffs on their products that they're selling to Europe and to Canada. And that makes it a lot harder for them to plan for any kind of growth because they don't want to get stuck when the economy goes down because trade tariffs are going up and there are less people out there to buy their goods.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And so in the simplest terms, that means they don't open new branches or new factories. There's not extra production put in. So there's not the growth in the economy that's driven by these businesses expanding, hiring more people, making more products. They're just not going to invest in that when it all seems so incredibly chaotic and unstable.

[Anthony]

So you talked about the case for tariffs, Justin, and I think there are economists who say that there are benefits to it, that it would bring production back to the United States. Or if you use it as a tool, like some people in the Trump administration have said, like his treasury secretary, you can use it to bring down tariffs and restrictions that other countries have. Canada has some pretty big protections on their dairy industry, for instance, that Donald Trump has pointed to and said it's not fair that they have this. Of course, Europe has some restrictions on American auto exports. There are things that the United States could get by using tariffs kind of as a cudgel to force other markets to open. The risk, of course, as we discussed, is that it's going to disrupt the U.S. economy. And I think that there's a little bit of what behind Donald Trump's reasoning here is that it's not just a tool. He wants to use it to raise revenue. He wants to use it to help fund the federal government. And that's why he's looking at Canada in particular, because Canada is America's biggest trading partner. So if you want to bring money in with tariffs, you're not going to put it on some little country that doesn't buy any American products. You put it on the big markets for American products or the big importers to America, and that's Canada, Mexico and China, which is what Donald Trump has singled out.

[Sarah]

All the talk of Canada becoming the 51st state, which at first we thought was a joke, or he was just trolling the entire nation, and Justin Trudeau in particular, whom he's never really liked, and joking, calling him Governor Trudeau as though it was already one of the states of the Union. That's caused a political backlash in Canada, though, hasn't it, where people are not just threatening reciprocal tariffs or surcharges on electricity and the rest. It's really wound people up so much that actually the politics. And there's going to be a general election this year in Canada, the politics is they want their politicians to stand up to Donald Trump and not take this. So, in fact, he's kind of creating an enemy or an adversary across the border with all the things he keeps saying about trying to get Canada to join America.

[Justin]

Yeah. And it's worth saying as well, that the European Union has, within the last 12 hours or so, announced its own set of reciprocal arrangements for American goods coming to Europe, its own set of reciprocal tariffs. Interestingly, one nation hasn't, and that is where I'm talking to you from right now. The business secretary in Britain has said he's disappointed, but they haven't gone any further than that. But you could see quite quickly if it had a real impact, if these tariffs, if the Trump tariffs had a real impact on real people in real constituencies in Britain, the pressure mounting as well on the British government, in spite of all the other things, that it wants to have good relations with Trump over having to do something as well. And that's the thing, isn't it? When he deals with the outside world, his view has always been transactional. As we've said over and over again, he doesn't believe in having kind of permanent allies or permanent enemies. We know that about Donald Trump. We've known that. We knew that before the election, though perhaps people have been a little surprised at how much he's put it into action after the election. But the downside of that for him is that when you really do upset people who you need for something else, the people themselves, not the politicians who might sometimes be equally transactional, it just seems to be In Canada, guys, the people themselves are getting to a stage where they're not going to forget this. This isn't going to be something that is just sort of lightly put to one side. Oh, he's got rid of the tariffs. Now we can all go back to square one. Or am I overstating that or not?

[Sarah]

I don't imagine Donald Trump thinks as much he would ever need Canada for. He's pretty dismissive of the size of their economy, the size and utility of their military. You know, other than their geographic positioning in the world. I don't think he sees any need for Canada, frankly.

[Justin]

Let's turn back to stock markets. And obviously world stock markets have been affected, but specifically when it comes to Wall street and what is going on in the US and the impact of that on ordinary Americans, if indeed there is much of an impact. We've had a question, a question from Chris in London.

[Chris]

My question is about the S and P and Wall Street. I think I recall that Mr. Vance, prior to the election win, indicating that he was not a fan of Wall Street. Is that correct? We all know Trump likes or tolerates the Tech Bros. But that doesn't mean he cares about Wall street and the S and P, particularly in the very short term. In which case is the current media thinking that the level of the S and P might hold Trump to account? Somewhat misplaced. Thank you.

[Anthony]

Yeah. I spent time reassuring friends and family coming into this Trump presidency that they shouldn't dump all of their stocks and rearrange their 401k plans. Because Donald Trump really does care about the stock market and he's not gonna do anything if things start to slide that would contribute to that. I am now starting to rethink that. I mean, Donald Trump doesn't have to run for reelection. He has shown he doesn't necessarily care about how the Republican Party and Republican candidates do outside of him. So those midterms coming up next year may not be all that big a concern for him. So maybe this is Donald Trump unchained and not quite as fixated on the day to day permutations of the stock market indexes.

[Sarah]

It's funny, I was thinking exactly the same thing. That maybe doesn't care or he's got a longer term view and he's able, unlike most presidents to, to just ride it out for a year or two. Even if it means, as you say, Anthony, that the midterms don't go particularly well. But by the end of his term he would hope that all of this had come to pass. And yeah, he can just indulge in some slightly longer term planning than people normally would in the White House.

[Justin]

Here's the thing. You could take your stock picking advice from Anthony Zurcher or from Warren Buffett, and I think I'm right in saying that Warren Buffett took the opposite view to you, Anthony, and actually went back to cash, or at least put a lot of stuff into cash because he thought that possibly things weren't going to go quite so well this time around. But hey, ho, I mean, nobody knows, do they? And you might have been just as right as he was. I tell you what, there is. I mean, it's an interesting question, that one from Chris, because yes, it is true that they don't terribly like Wall street and certainly not the kind of Steve Bannon wing of the party really aren't the slightest bit interested on what Wall street people think. They think they were bailed out unfairly in the financial crisis. They think they've never really suffered the consequences of the things they've done to middle class Americans, working class Americans. They don't like them at all. And it's a big. But plenty of people in the party do like them and plenty of people in the wider Trump orbit rely on them for their cash. And really significantly, as we mentioned earlier on, a lot of people have pensions, etc. They're very much tied up, particularly in the S and P. And because of that, it's something that he can't kind of ignore politically. But I think Chris in London, Anthony is onto something where he suggests that actually this administration or a lot of people in this administration really don't like Wall Street.

[Anthony]

And right. They don't like the elites. They've campaigned against the elites. And there are plenty of elites in the corridors of Wall street and in the executive suites in Manhattan. And So people like J.D. vance do kind of have a skeptical eye towards them. And it goes against a traditional base of the Republican Party going back to the Reagan years where it was big business, corporate interests and evangelical Christian conservatives and it was that coalition that delivered to the White House and power to Republicans for decades. I think this really does illustrate how the Republican Party has changed pretty dramatically under Donald Trump.

[Sarah]

I wanted to remind myself what Donald Trump had promised to his voters, to his MAGA base during the campaign. Now that we hear him musing on whether or not there might be a recession and that we've not to worry about it too much. He talks about there maybe being a little bit of disturbance before the economy gets better. Here's what he said back in October. We will begin a new era of soaring incomes, skyrocketing wealth, millions and millions of new jobs and a booming middle class. We're going to boom like we've never boomed before. So there will be some people still waiting for those soaring incomes and skyrocketing wealth that they were promised.

[Anthony]

Yes, golden age and all. We'll see.

[Justin]

Yeah, never promise a golden age. Just deliver it. That's the thing, isn't it, in politics? Deliver, don't promise, but do the delivery first. I look back to remember the midterms in Trump's first term where he didn't do particularly well. The Democrats did reasonably okay, but when you went to some areas, I remember being in suburban Pittsburgh out on an electrician's truck. This guy is a small company, had two or three trucks and he was doing massive business. He said business had never been better. And there was a certain sort of blue collar worker in those days. Well, all of them, all of us remember them who really did feel that the Trump economy worked for them in those years. And I think that's what powered this election victory more than anything else, isn't it a kind of hazy, vague, gauzy memory of those good times. And if that doesn't happen in relatively short order, I think a lot of people who don't feel particularly ideologically committed to Donald Trump, whatever that might mean, I think a lot of people are going to feel quite disappointed quite soon.

[Anthony]

Yeah, watch Republicans in Congress because they're the ones who will feel the heat first. So if they start breaking with Trump, if their grumbling behind the scenes starts turning public, and if it becomes more difficult for Donald Trump to get Republicans to sign on to his pretty expansive legislative agenda, I think that's a real indicator that their base and what they're hearing from their constituents is having an impact on, on their political views.

[Justin]

And Anthony, are you telling your friends and family to buy or to sell their Tesla stock?

[Anthony]

I don't think any of my friends and family are interested in owning Tesla stock at this point. They watch what's happened over the past few months.

[Sarah]

Yeah, and lots of people are rather embarrassed by their Teslas as well. You see all sorts of bumper stickers around here with people saying, wanting to make the point that just because they're driving that car doesn't mean that they're supportive of Elon Musk, his politics, what he's doing at Doge or any of the rest of it.

[Anthony]

You know, electric car owners, the kind of people who drive Electric cars and I mean, that's a pretty liberal, wealthy crowd. And yeah, now that Elon Musk has thrown his lot in with Donald Trump, I think there is a certain amount of embarrassment and regret among some Tesla owners.

[Justin]

Yeah. And now Donald Trump is a Tesla owner and I mean, I can't remember all the things he said about electric vehicles in the past, but he's certainly been pretty uncomplimentary about him. And now he's got one of his own. There you go. Although he can't drive it. I do wonder whether, I mean, do we think that there is a point at which the collapse in Tesla's stock, and it's not just in the States, is it? It's right around the world, sales are collapsing and his various other ventures, does it have a kind of politically puncturing effect on Elon Musk? Does Donald Trump get tired of him? He's obviously sticking with him today because he's bought the Tesla. But I mean, is this the beginning of the end or is that overblown?

[Anthony]

And as Donald Trump was buying the Tesla, Elon Musk talked about spending another $100 million on Republican campaign groups and Republican causes. So I think, yes, Elon Musk has lost a lot of money in Tesla stock over the past few months. He's still the richest man in the world and he still is willing to spend his wealth to help support Donald Trump and support Republicans. So I think as long as he's willing to do that, I think he's going to have Donald Trump's interest and attention. Even if Donald Trump can't go tooling around town in a Tesla.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And even if he stops being the richest man in the world because the stock price has fallen so far. But yeah, for all the predictions that they were going to fall out dramatically and early, the bromance really does seem to be absolutely solid between the two of them when you watch them together.

[Justin]

Okay, folks, we're going to bring that to an end for today. You will have seen the news that Ukraine has said it's going to accept a 30 day ceasefire with Russia if the Russians accept it. We haven't mentioned it. And that is because our friends at Ukraine cast have been providing all the analysis of that and a focus, particularly of course at the moment on how Russia might respond to the ceasefire plan. Because as of the moment we are speaking, they haven't made any particular determination of whether they're going to sign up to it or not. And you can hear all of Ukraine cast's episode as you can ours as well on BBC Sounds. That's it. Bye bye.

[Anthony]

Bye y'. All.

[Sarah]

Bye bye. Ameracast.

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[Justin]

Well, look, thanks for listening all the way to the end of today's AmericasT. You are now officially an AmericasT. It is, of course, a ride, a wild ride, navigating the US News, particularly in the era of Trump. But you have made it. If you have a comment, a question about the things we've talked about or anything at all actually, get in touch with us. The email is americastbc.co.uk the WhatsApp is 033-01-239480. We answer your questions every single week actually on the podcast, so keep them coming. You can join the online community as well on Discord. The link is in the podcast description on your app. We will be back with another podcast very soon. So until then, see you later. Bye.

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