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Has Trump cancelled Jimmy Kimmel over Charlie Kirk?
00:29:10
Can late night comedy continue with America’s free speech debate.
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- [00:00]
Justin Webb
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- [00:07]
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- [01:05]
Justin Webb
Donald Trump has finished his second state visit to the uk. Unprecedented second state visit and the big headline is well, he behaved. They got on really well, it would seem. We'll unpack what was and what wasn't said and we'll also talk about the row of free speech in America after the death of Charlie Kirk. That row continuing. Jimmy Kimmel, the talk show host, being the the latest victim of it taken off the air. Welcome to AmericasT.
- [01:34]
Sarah Smith
AmericasT, AmericasT from BBC News.
- [01:38]
Donald Trump (Impersonator or Satirical Voice)
When Donald Trump calls, they say, yes, sir, right away, sir. Happy to lick your boot, sir.
- [01:44]
Sarah Smith
We are the sickest country in the world. Oh, dear. Are you worried that billionaires are going to go hungry? Of course the President supports peaceful protests.
- [01:52]
Mariana Misinformation
What a stupid question.
- [01:53]
Donald Trump
Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein?
- [02:02]
Sarah Smith
Hello, it's Sarah here speaking to you from a radio car in the grounds of Chequers, the Prime Minister's country residence.
- [02:09]
Mariana Misinformation
It is Mariana, AKA Misinformation, in what is just below the usual worldwide headquarters of AmericasT at the BBC in London.
- [02:17]
Justin Webb
Yeah, we've been kicked out of our studio. It's just in alongside Mariana in our new studio, which looks just as good, I have to say, and I should say why we've been kicked out because it's an odd time for us to be doing this. So it's half past six in the evening, British time, after the visit finished, the visit, the state visit, and after, of course, that news conference. And let's start there, Sarah, with Your thoughts first about. We'll talk a bit about the whole visit in a second. But you were there, weren't you? Tell us about it.
- [02:43]
Sarah Smith
Yes, I was. I was lucky enough to get a seat on the American side of the aisle in the press conference in a very grand room in Chequers. After all of the splendor at Windsor Castle yesterday, you could see that the American delegation were pretty impressed with Chequers as well, as we all assembled in that room surrounded by sort of 18th century oil portraits and things. And this was the opportunity, obviously, for us to ask both Keir Starmer and Donald Trump questions. And this was the moment of great jeopardy within the visit. This is what Downing street had been the most worried about, because this is when they lose control of events. Who knows what Donald Trump is going to say, especially when people were asking questions designed to elicit the differences of opinion that there were between the President and the Prime Minister. So whether it was on Israel, Gaza, on Ukraine, on immigration, all sorts of questions were coming at them to point out where they don't agree. And it was the most amiable and polite and disciplined I've ever seen Donald Trump in my life. He was not rising to it. So, I mean, they both stated their case. They didn't always agree, but it was almost as though they were talking past each other and therefore talking past the disagreements. It was very, very diplomatic. And that's not something we often say about Donald Trump.
- [04:02]
Justin Webb
Yeah, let's hear bit of it. Because exactly as you say, right from the start, really, you could tell, couldn't you, that this was going to be not only best behavior. I think it actually goes a bit further than that. I actually decided by the end that there's something about Starmer that Trump seems to like, and we could maybe get into that in a second. But let's hear a bit first from. Well, right at the beginning, when they're talking principally about trade, this enduring connection.
- [04:27]
Donald Trump
Is why I was thrilled that the United Kingdom was the very first country with which we made a historic trade deal and a very good trade deal. He's a tough negotiator. I think it was a better deal for you than us. But these are minor details. It's a very good deal for both of us. He's a great negotiator.
- [04:45]
Sarah Smith
The body language was really striking as well. While they were doing this press conference, they kept touching each other on the arm or on the shoulder in a way that looked, you know, almost genuinely affectionate. I think these two do really like and respect each other. I think that as unlikely as it is, as impossible as it is for us to wrap our heads around, it is a real relationship that's been bolstered by all the flattery and honoring that Donald Trump has enjoyed over the past 48 hours or so. That's done no harm whatsoever. But this is a relationship which has respect as well as affection in it. Probably get on and talk a great deal about foreign affairs. I'll give you one little glimpse. I managed to grab a word with Susie Wiles, Donald Trump's chief of staff, probably the most powerful woman in America, just before the press conference. And I asked her how much discussion there had been about Israel, about Ukraine during the course of the day or any international affairs. And she said none. Said they've been talking about the tech partnership, other things, but not international relationships at all. Except she didn't know what had gone on in one half hour period when it was just the two men in a room together with no staff whatsoever. And it became clear, as we'll hear through the press conference, that there had been discussion about Israel, Gaza, about Ukraine. So they obviously do that one on one in an atmosphere of what must be enough mutual respect to exchange views that are not the same.
- [06:18]
Mariana Misinformation
Do you think that there's an element of it which feels a little bit like Donald Trump doesn't really care what Keir Starmer says about things like almost like the level of influence that we have here in the UK is perhaps less than we would like it to be. I don't know whether it felt like that or it did genuinely feel like respect, mutual respect.
- [06:37]
Sarah Smith
Well, I think you have a very good point, Marianna, and let me sort of interrogate it a little bit, because does Donald Trump care that a small, less influential, less wealthy country isn't following exactly the same policy as him? No, probably not. But we're talking about areas where about issues he does care a very great deal about. So let's look at Israel, Gaza and the fact that Sukhir Starmer is preparing to recognize Palestinian statehood, waiting until Donald Trump leaves the UK before he does it. But then he will announce that that's the UK Policy. Donald Trump does not agree with that, which he made clear in the press conference because he thinks it's rewarding Hamas. So, you know, it's not simply that the UK Is on the sidelines issuing statements like this. This is going to be a big deal next week at the United nations when the UK Is not the only country that's going to do that. And that is upsetting Donald Trump's plan for how things should go in Israel. He was very clear that he thinks all the hostages need to be released before any kind of change of policy at all. And also, I think it's unthinkable that the US Will ever, certainly, under Donald Trump, recognize Palestinian statehood. So, yeah, even if he does see us as a Minn. These are influential foreign policy things that are being discussed. But the real question, of course, is did that state dinner, all of the pageantry, all of the flattery, all of the lavish grandeur, does it bias influence? And so I was able to ask Susie Wiles, again, his Chief of Staff, how much difference this makes. And she loved that dinner, by the way. I mean, you could see that she was absolutely beguiled by the romance of all of the royal stuff as well. But does it actually mean that Keir Starmer has more influence than Donald Trump, than other leaders or than he did before? Absolutely not. She said, because the President will always make decisions in America's best interest, not caring what his friends, allies have to say about it. He's not going to be lobbied by the United Kingdom into changing his mind about something that he doesn' think is the best for America. And so she was pretty clear, actually, that, you know, the Prime Minister is not going to get anything in return for this except solidifying that relationship. Which I think what Keir Starmer has bought himself is the ability to disagree with Donald Trump without paying any price for it. He's not going to be isolated or insulted in any way. So the UK can follow its own foreign policy without having to spend quite so much time and energy worrying about whether it's going to upset Donald Trump. Yeah. So Keir Starmer, I don't think has earned the right to change Donald Trump's mind, but he has won the ability to disagree with him agreeably.
- [09:31]
Justin Webb
Fascinating point that. And we should listen to what Trump actually said about Gaza, because I think it backs up what Marianne's saying. That actually, you could interpret it as saying, what the heck, it really doesn't matter to me. Or you could have a more generous interpretation and say, yeah, we've taken it seriously, but we just don't agree with it. Listened to. It was actually Chris Mason, wasn't it, our colleague, who asked them about their differing views on the recognition of a Palestinian state and Donald Trump, as you were saying, Sarah, very clear it was an area that they had disagreed on during that private chat that they had.
- [10:02]
Donald Trump
I want an end. I want the hostages released. And I think it's going to be okay. But it has been a brutal period of time. But this has been going on for a long time. This is not something that's over the last year, two years. This has been for decades and decades. But we want it to end. We have to have the hostages back immediately. That's what the people of Israel want. They want them back, and we want the fighting to stop, and it's going to stop. But a lot of bad things. You know, Hamas said that they're going to put the hostages up as bait. They're going to put the hostages in front of any attack. And that's pretty brutal. We haven't heard that one in a long time. So we have to remember that. So I have a disagreement with the prime minister on that score. Okay. One of our few disagreements, actually.
- [10:51]
Justin Webb
So that's that. But of course, that isn't that, because Gaza is a moving situation. And I think the thing that sort of hangs over it, Sarah, presumably, is that, I mean, we've had an Israeli minister talking in the last 24 hours or so about real estate opportunities in Gaza, suggesting that he'd even have had discussions with people in the White House. And you can. You don't need to have a huge imagination, do you, to see ways in which they diverge a lot on Gaza over the next few months. And it gets to be a bit more of a difficulty.
- [11:24]
Sarah Smith
Yeah. So there will be that going forward. And it may very well be that the prime minister was laying the groundwork for some of that in his conversations with Donald Trump today. But also a lot of the questions which were quite flattering, some of them to Donald Trump, because that's a good way to get him to answer you, is to butter him up a little bit in the question. People were saying to him, look, basically, you are the most powerful person in the world, and you are the only person who can influence Benjamin Netanyahu over Gaza. You are the one who has the power to try to stop what's happening there. Will you use it? And if not, why not? And so that's. I mean, that's a fascinating question, regardless of whether or not he agrees with Keir Starmer. And his answer seemed to be that he is not going to meaningfully intervene until all of the hostages have been returned. That's clearly his priority at the moment. And he seemed to be saying there was no point in him trying to intervene further, even to alleviate some of the suffering and starvation that is happening in Gaza until Hamas releases all of the hostages.
- [12:27]
Mariana Misinformation
I thought it was quite interesting. I mean, the, the shift or the difference and, well, the difference in the dynamic when they were talking about the situation, the war in Ukraine and particularly Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump's relationship with Putin, like you say, Sarah, I guess a lot of the questioning kind of played into the fact that Donald Trump does seem to have these. A rapport, a dialogue not just with Netanyahu, but also with Vladimir Putin, which seems to have gone slightly sour recently. And Trump actually said, essentially, Putin's let me down, but also stuck to that kind of Republican way of viewing the war or certain Republicans way of viewing the war, which is it doesn't affect us very much here in the US.
- [13:09]
Justin Webb
Let'S listen to that. Because, I mean, when he said those words, Vladimir Putin has let me down. And he said it pretty clearly. And you thought, ooh, hang on, what's coming now? This could be a big newsline. This could be the announcement of a change of heart. But actually, then he said, this war.
- [13:27]
Donald Trump
Well, he has let me down. I mean, he's killing many people and he's losing more people than he's, you know, than he's killing. I mean, frankly, the Russian soldiers are being killed at a higher rate than the Ukrainian soldiers. But, yeah, he said let me down. I don't like to see it's death. You know, I hope we're going to have some good news for you coming up. But again, it doesn't affect the United States and he. Look, it doesn't so much affect you. Of course, you are a lot closer to the scene than we are. We have a whole ocean separating us. But I will say this now, Keir.
- [13:59]
Sarah Smith
Summer had a very different perspective. He said very clearly, we have to ramp up the pressure on Putin in order to get him to the table to talk about a ceasefire and potentially to end the war. But Donald Trump wasn't taking the bait on that either. He wasn't about to announce any way in which he was going to ramp up the pressure on Putin. In fact, what he said was, Europeans need to stop buying Russian oil and the UK buys negligible amounts, I think, of Russian oil. But Donald Trump was, I think, pretty clear. Anybody who wants him to get tougher with Vladimir Putin needs to make sure that they are not buying oil from Russia in the first place before they come and talk to him about changing his policy. He was able to just kind of completely skate past Keir Starmer saying that it is time, that the pressure on Putin has ramped up.
- [14:48]
Mariana Misinformation
We're obviously talking about this press Conference, because understandably, it's big news and you were there, Sarah, and everything else. But looking on the undercover voters feed my fictional characters with their profiles across the main sites. Like, the whole kind of point of this, and I guess maybe this is why it's a kind of semi win for Keir Starmer, is that generally it was quite not punchy, which, as we know, the recommendation systems the algorithms don't tend to favor. And much more of the conversation online about this visit has focused very much on the royal part of it and on one of mine and Sarah's favourite topics, outfits, and particularly Melania Trump's incredible hat.
- [15:26]
Justin Webb
I thought you were gonna say Taylor Swift was at the dinner.
- [15:29]
Mariana Misinformation
No, no, she wasn't.
- [15:29]
Sarah Smith
Yes, I thought she was gonna say that too. And I was trying to work out how I could have possibly missed Taylor Swift being at a royal Slate banquet.
- [15:36]
Mariana Misinformation
Clouds. But just all these memes of saying Melania Trump is now witness protection, because she was kind of standing in the back corner.
- [15:42]
Justin Webb
Just before we get on to Jimmy Kimmel and freedom of speech and all the rest of it, just a final thought about a thing that really didn't come up. In fact, it was mentioned by a journalist, wasn't it? Beth Rigby of Sky News saying, it's the elephant in the room. And that was Peter Mandelson and the whole business about the Jeffrey Epstein fallout and the thing that had led to him being fired. And Donald Trump's response to that, I thought, Sarah, was he said something like, I don't even know him, or I don't know anything about him.
- [16:15]
Sarah Smith
Yes, I said, I don't know him, which was a good way of brushing off that whole topic. That will have been of a great relief to a large number of people that he wasn't gonna pick this up. But, yeah, we've seen him in the Oval Office on the day that the US UK trade deal was signed, laughing and joking with the president, who even holds his hand at one point and says, oh, he's got such a beautiful accent. If only Donald Trump had an accent like that, he would have been president years and years ago. So, yeah, he's been very flattering towards Peter Mandelson on occasion. And now he says he doesn't even know him. I mean, how quickly one falls from grace. Justin, over. Once you're out, you're out.
- [16:56]
Mariana Misinformation
But I would just say that in terms of how to play this from Donald Trump's point of view, particularly in terms of the still quite rabid online crowd, the MAGA make America Great. Again, group online who've been going after Donald Trump about Epstein. It is a wise decision to say, I don't really know, I don't know him, I don't know him. Because then they can't say, look, more evidence that Donald Trump supports these kinds of people, even if that's unfair or not true or whatever the case is. You can, you can see, I think it shows a knowingness and it might be that he just came up with it in the moment, but I, I, my analysis would be that it shows a knowingness from his team about how to handle that, which actually they've not shown around the episode stuff. Yeah, necessarily up until now, that, well.
- [17:39]
Justin Webb
Okay, they were asked about freedom of speech, which is a huge topic. Obviously it's a huge topic in Britain, but a huge topic at the moment in America because of the killing of Charlie Kirk and the things that have been said since he was killed and specifically said by the talk show host Jimmy Kimmel. Let us listen first before we discuss that case which was brought up and which Donald Trump had an opinion about. Let's hear actually what Jimmy Kimmel, the talk show host, said that got him fired.
- [18:10]
Donald Trump (Impersonator or Satirical Voice)
There was grieving on Friday. The White House flew the flags at half staff, which got some criticism. But on a human level, you can see how hard the President is taking this.
- [18:21]
Justin Webb
My condolences on the walk of your friend Charlie Kirk.
- [18:23]
Donald Trump
May I ask, sir, personally, how are.
- [18:25]
Sarah Smith
You holding up over the last day and a half, sir?
- [18:27]
Justin Webb
I think very good.
- [18:28]
Donald Trump
And by the way, right there you see all the trucks. They just started construction of the new ballroom for the White House, which is something they've been trying to get, as you know, for about 150 years. And it's going to be a beauty.
- [18:41]
Donald Trump (Impersonator or Satirical Voice)
Yes, he's at the fourth stage of grief. Construction, demolition, construction, construction. This is not how an adult grieves the murder of someone he called a friend. This is how a four year old mourns a goldfish.
- [18:57]
Sarah Smith
Okay?
- [18:58]
Donald Trump (Impersonator or Satirical Voice)
And it didn't just happen once.
- [19:00]
Sarah Smith
So this is huge news in America because Jimmy Kimmel is a really, really big figure on late night television and also because for all that the Trump administration like to lecture us about free speech and are convinced that that free speech is being curtailed in the United Kingdom and that this is limiting Britain's freedoms and has complained about it quite frequently. Now we see somebody attacking either the Trump administration or the MAGA movement getting taken off air at the same time as the Attorney General has been talking about going after people for hate Speech in a way that seems to be in defiance of the First Amendment. So. So, yeah, there's a real free speech debate going in the US at the moment, which probably meant that not too many lectures were handed out by any of the administration officials whilst they were in the uk. But it's a massive deal, isn't it? Because how many late night talk show hosts are there now left, Justin? Because. So Jimmy Kimmel's been taken off air immediately. We know that Stephen Colbert's show is not being renewed, so he's got another few months left on air. He also goes after Donald Trump a lot, very amusingly, very wittily, but, you know, he does attack Trump a lot and his show's not being renewed. Yeah, if I was Seth Meyers, I would be a bit worried about my job.
- [20:23]
Justin Webb
But of course, what Trump says, and let's listen to what he said at the press conference, and he does have a point here. I think they're just not making the money that they used to make. They don't have the audiences they used to make. And maybe that's at the heart of it. Here he is.
- [20:36]
Donald Trump
Well, Jimmy Kimmel was fired because he had bad ratings more than anything else, and he said a horrible thing about a great gentleman known as Charlie Kirk. And Jimmy Kimmel is not a talented person. He had very bad ratings and they should have fired him a long time ago. So, you know, you can call that free speech or not. He was fired for lack of talent.
- [20:53]
Mariana Misinformation
The reason, though, that this has triggered such a lively debate, or maybe not triggered is the wrong word. It sort of further entrenched the debate that was already happening about freedom of expression. It is because, you know, again, whether you agree or disagree with someone, if you believe in absolute freedom of expression, and certainly freedom of expression in the First Amendment form, that you should be able to joke about certain things, you should be able to comment on certain things. It's worth saying that Jimmy Kimmel did express condolences in regards to the killing of Charlie Kirk after, when it happened. But you can also imagine that when you do a program like this, it's really not very surprising that you would joke about it in the same way that, you know, on satirical programs here in the uk you would joke about them. And, and that's why quite a lot of people are saying, hang on a second, this seems hypocritical. But, Sarah, how much of this is about what was actually said and the level of offence and actually how much of it is about something that's slightly more Complicated and slightly more about the financial situation of the networks.
- [21:50]
Sarah Smith
Yeah, this is basically about a business deal, because the company that owns all the regional and local affiliates, who take programs from ABC centrally and show them, and this is how most linear television is distributed in the United States. That company that owns most of them wants to buy the company that owns the rest of them, essentially, which will make it close to a monopoly and will mean that the FCC has to approve this merger. So basically, a Trump appointee has to allow this company an exception to be able to buy its rival and become a great television behemoth. That's not going to happen if the Trump administration is upset with them for showing the Jimmy Kimmel show. So all the little affiliates said they weren't going to carry the show anymore in furtherance of this business deal. And that was what then led ABC centrally to say, okay, well, we're suspending it indefinitely then, because there was no point in making a show that the local stations weren't going to carry. And so actually, when you look at it like that, it's not really so much a case about free speech or about censorship. It's about the chilling effect of the Trump administration where, you know, that they will bend the rules for friends and they will come down like a ton of bricks on people they consider adversaries or enemies. And therefore, the way in which people who want to conduct business in the United States are contorting themselves to please the administration, because they know that's what they have to do in order to make the bucks.
- [23:26]
Justin Webb
Interesting that he didn't read the room, though. I mean, you know, whatever the rights and wrongs of what he said, and as Marianna points out, his initial response actually was perfectly sort of sympathetic to the obvious human disaster that this has been. But maybe he didn't read the room in his subsequent remarks, and maybe as well, you know, there are people on the right pointing out, aren't there, that when Tucker Carlson was fired by Fox, also a business decision essentially, that Fox made because he was costing them a lot of money and it was getting increasingly difficult and there was a sort of multiplicity reasons, weren't there? Back in, I think it was 20, 23 or so, he was fired. Actually, Jimmy Kimmel celebrated it. I mean, did quite a funny thing. I remember seeing it, quite a funny thing where he said, well, he can go off and see his agent in Moscow. So maybe you live by the sword, you die by the sword. I mean, there is, you know, it's a pretty brutal world.
- [24:22]
Mariana Misinformation
Imagine if this is me being the usual. This is me being your contrarian, which is not usually this way round. Imagine if this was the other way round. Like, we know, for example, we chatted about it. But when Paul Pelosi, Nancy Pelosi, former speaker's husband, was attacked, there were people on the right, including people with influential channels, podcasts, who made really, really distasteful jokes about this. And that was celebrated.
- [24:46]
Justin Webb
Donald Trump did. Donald Trump said. He said in a kind of mocking tone. How is Paul?
- [24:51]
Mariana Misinformation
How is Paul, speaking of all of the things that we've spoken about in terms of freedom of expression, a joke that is, you know, maybe not the world's most tasteful joke, I mean, not even the world's best joke, but nonetheless a joke.
- [25:03]
Justin Webb
But this is.
- [25:04]
Mariana Misinformation
Feels like we're getting into a bit scary territory list, guys.
- [25:07]
Sarah Smith
The only way I can leave Chequers because, as you can imagine, there's a huge security operation here is to get on one of the White House's buses and it is going to leave in a few minutes. So if I'm not going to be stranded here overnight, I'm going to have to go. So we'll wrap up by saying, I guess this trip, certainly from the British side, they think it has been a great success. Watching the Americans packing up and leaving, they looked very, very happy. They have been charmed by this. And there's clearly a better relationship now between the President and the minister's staff, as well as there is between the two principals who getting on better than ever. So I think we have reached a point in the UK US relations where they feel almost normal. Now, that might not sound like a victory, but if you have normalized relations with Donald Trump so you don't have to spend half your time worrying about how he's going to react or what he's going to say, and you can treat him like you would any other world leader, delicately and with respect, but not having to, you know, handle him with kid gloves all of the time, then that's going to free up a lot of time as space to do other things. And I think probably Keir Starmer can consider that a victory.
- [26:15]
Justin Webb
Sarah, get on the bus. Is it a nice bus? Has it got a loo?
- [26:18]
Sarah Smith
I don't think it's got a loo, but it's quite plush. Mariana, we'll talk about Melania's yellow dress another time.
- [26:24]
Mariana Misinformation
I know we haven't even done the yellow dress and the pink belt anyway.
- [26:28]
Justin Webb
Too much dress talk. Sarah, don't miss the bus because of Melania's dress.
- [26:32]
Sarah Smith
Bye, guys.
- [26:33]
Justin Webb
Bye. Okay, final thoughts from us. Number one on the bus. Okay, I missed the bus once.
- [26:41]
Mariana Misinformation
You can't do your final thought about the bus.
- [26:43]
Justin Webb
So in central London, I missed the bus. And there's a Secret Service guy I got quite friendly with. It's one of these trips that's gone on and on forever. And I say, I've missed the bus.
- [26:52]
Mariana Misinformation
Why did you miss the bus?
- [26:53]
Justin Webb
I missed the bus because the producer I was with.
- [26:55]
Mariana Misinformation
Oh, here we go.
- [26:58]
Justin Webb
And I was banging on his daughter, trying to get him out, and he wouldn't come. And anyway, we missed the bus. So the Secret serviceman put me in a car and took me to Heathrow. And here's the thing. When you're with the Secret Service and you get to Heathrow, I'm thinking. I'm thinking Heathrow's quite a big place. This is gonna be quite difficult. It was not at all difficult. We go to a place around the side somewhere. We go straight through onto the tarmac up to the bottom of the plane, and he says, have a nice day, sir. And that was cool. That's the end of it.
- [27:23]
Mariana Misinformation
So that should have missed the bus.
- [27:25]
Justin Webb
Yeah, missing the bus is no bad thing. Anyway, we've let her not miss the bus, which is probably just as well. Okay, final thought. On the whole business, I think on.
- [27:34]
Mariana Misinformation
The freedom of expression thing, I. I think that it'll be really interesting to see where this goes and basically whether Donald Trump sort of stands firm on these kinds of decisions, which feel like, as we chatted about on our last episode, they are starting to tip into sort of right wing cancel culture, which is something that people on the right have very much been against from the left. I don't know. It feels like there's hypocrisy on all sides at the moment when it comes to this debate. And everyone says they like freedom of expression, but it kind of feels like nobody does.
- [28:01]
Justin Webb
Yeah, because they don't like each other. I mean, that's the awful thing, isn't it? That seems to be happening in the United States. There are very few people who like people who are politically opposed to them. And in a sense, it's not a new thing. I remember in 2008 being at a Sarah Palin rally, Sarah Palin, vice presidential candidate with John McCain, and asked someone what they thought of Barack Obama, and they said, I hate him. He's a baby killer. And actually, for a minute, I didn't know what she was talking about, but she was talking about abortion and he supported it, abortion rights. And that for her made him a hate figure. And I remember sort of finding that away in the back of my mind. This is a long time ago thinking, blimey, that's not great for America, if that really takes off. But it has taken off. Now you have people on the left celebrating the death of this guy and believing, genuinely believing that their opponents are evil. And the big issue now for the States, I mean, never mind presidential news conferences. And did they agree or not about this, that and the other? And did they smile and did they touch each other? America's got real problems. And it comes, it's far deeper in a way than freedom of speech. It's just whether they want to live with each other or not in the future. Sorry, that's a really depressing way to finish, isn't it? But what the heck. See you all later, we hope.
- [29:19]
Podcast Advertiser
Bye.
- [29:22]
Sarah Smith
Ameracast Ameracast from BBC News, well done for getting all the way to the end end of another americast episode. That makes you officially an ameracaster. It's not easy navigating your way through the news in America, particularly at the moment, but you did it and we're delighted to have you with us. So if you do have a comment or a question about any of the stories we've talked about or anything you'd like us to talk about, do please get in touch. You can email us americastbc.co.uk you can WhatsApp us a message on 0330 9480. And we do answer your questions every single week on the podcast. You can always join the discussion in our online community on Discord. The link is in our podcast description in your app. And we'll be back with another episode very soon. Till then, see you all later. Bye. Bye.
- [30:18]
Mariana Misinformation
America is changing and so is the world.
- [30:22]
Sarah Smith
But what's happening in America isn't just.
- [30:25]
Justin Webb
A cause of global upheaval.
- [30:27]
Sarah Smith
It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.
- [30:30]
Mariana Misinformation
I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, dc.
- [30:33]
Sarah Smith
I'm Tristan Redman in London, and this is the Global Story.
- [30:37]
Mariana Misinformation
Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.
- [30:42]
Sarah Smith
Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.