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Has Trump just made the US/Europe breakup official?
00:34:05
The Trump administration warns European is facing “civilisational erasure”
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- [00:00]
Justin
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- [01:08]
Sarah
Breaking News Americasters as we are recording this episode at 3:00 clock in the afternoon UK time on Monday, the Golden Globes have just announced their nominees and they include a brand new category, Best Podcast. And that's in recognition of the extraordinary and diverse talents in in podcasting. What do you think of that?
- [01:27]
Justin
Justin Can I just say, if we'd been nominated, we would have won. Unfortunately, we haven't been nominated, so I guess we won't win. But there is always next year.
- [01:35]
Sarah
Sarah yes, indeed, we shall make them more aware of our efforts. I think we're running some Donald Trump style campaign that we deserve the award because it's Monday. Justin, Anthony and I have been answering all of your questions on five Live with Matt Charlie on his show there and among other things, we're talking about the reaction to Donald Trump's peace prize that he got from FIFA and why he himself has been handing out awards to Sylvester Stallone and Gloria Gaynor. Anthony was actually there in the Oval Office with Trump and all the celebs.
- [02:04]
Justin
We are also going to be talking a bit about the Defense Secretary or Secretary for War Pete Hegseth's latest justification for striking alleged drugs boats in open international waters. Plus, is Donald Trump trying to end the United States alliance with Europe? They brought out this new security paper that is frankly pretty rude about Europe or at least European elite. So stay with us. We get to that at the end of the pod. In the meantime, let us begin. Welcome to America answers on Five Live.
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Ad Presenter
AmeriCast AmeriCast from BBC News when Donald.
- [02:37]
Anthony
Trump calls, they say, yes sir, right away sir, Happy to lick your boot, sir. We are the sickest country in the world. Oh, dear.
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Ad Presenter
Are you worried that billionaires are going to go hungry? Of course the president supports peaceful protests.
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Sarah
What a stupid question.
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Anthony
Are you still talking about Jeffrey and Epstein?
- [03:01]
Host
Right, let's get stuck in immediately with Donald Trump finally getting his Peace Prize, not from Noble, as he might have hoped, but from FIFA, who created it especially for him. Here he is accepting his award.
- [03:17]
Anthony
Thank you very much. This is truly one of the great honors of my life and beyond awards. Johnny and I were discussing this. We saved millions and millions of lives. The Congo as an example.
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Justin
Over 10 million people killed.
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Anthony
And it was heading for another 10 million very quickly. And it just, you know, the fact that we could do that, India, Pakistan.
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Justin
So many different wars that we're able to end in some cases a little bit before they started, just right before they started.
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Host
Let's see him talking about how he managed to end wars before they started. John in Kent has been in touch.
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Justin
Hello, AmericasT.
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Anthony
The USA media have been quite rude.
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Host
In the past about leaders in other.
- [03:56]
Justin
Countries who need to be endlessly praised and appeased. Are ordinary Americans at all uncomfortable with things like FIFA inventing a peace prize for Donald Trump?
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Host
Sarah, would you like to describe it? If people haven't seen the trophy and the medal and then we can get on to how it's gone down in.
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Sarah
America, it's quite freaky. It seems to be substantially larger than the actual World cup and it's got all of these disembodied hands reaching up and holding a globe. And it's a little bit freaky, but I haven't seen it in real life. I've only seen pictures. Anthony, you've been in the Oval Office this weekend, haven't you, and seen it with your own eyes?
- [04:30]
Anthony
Yeah, I was in there Saturday night. He got the award on Friday, and by Saturday, it was sitting on the Resolute desk, the big desk that's in the middle of the Oval Office, towering over a replica of the actual World cup trophy that he also had sitting on his desk. So he's quite proud of it, I guess, to ask Americans paying attention to this. Probably not.
- [04:51]
His base probably loves the fact that he's getting treated with such respect, in their view, by other countries and leaders of international organizations like FIFA. Meanwhile, his critics will look at it and say this is just another example of people bending over backwards to stroke Donald Trump's ego, making up a Peace prize to give him because he didn't get the Nobel Prize this year. Which is honestly what he's really pining after.
- [05:18]
Sarah
And we've seen other world leaders, haven't we, all, being incredibly obsequious and flattering every time they come and visit him in the Oval Office to make sure they don't get scolded and told off like President Zelensky did. But one thing I would say is I think there is less of a cringe in America about celebrating your own achievements as a nation and as people. So I think the extent to which we look at it and think it would just make everybody's toes curl, that might be a little bit less true here.
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Justin
It's such an interesting point that, isn't it? I think Sarah's dead right. And that sometimes we tend to see everything in America through our own rather more cynical, ancient spectacles. And actually they're really not like that. I think Sarah's just spot on.
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Host
Prizes and trophies and pageants.
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Justin
I've done this and I've done that and exaggerating a bit. And, you know, did he really bring an end to. What did he say, a war between India and Pakistan? I mean, there was some fighting between them, I think, on both sides. I wouldn't say necessarily it was brought to an end by the Americans and all the other wars. And one of them has just broken out again, hasn't it, in Cambodia. So, yeah, you can take all of that with a bit of pinch of salt. But I think Sarah's right. The idea that you blow your own trumpet, which to modest Brits is so horrendous, actually isn't to a lot of Americans. Plus, I'd say this, Matt, they don't give a. What's it about football? I mean, they really, number one, they call it soccer.
- [06:36]
Host
Well, the most. This is the most. I think this might be the most controversial thing that Donald Trump's ever said because at the same thing, he suggested they need to change the word for American football. And he basically said that soccer should be known as football.
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And that they need a different word for when they're talking about the NFL. How do you think about that, Anthony?
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Anthony
Yeah, good luck with that. Yeah. I mean, Donald Trump, you remember, used to own a football, and by that I mean American football team in the USFL back in the 80s. And he has a long history with the sport, but he also always wanted to own an NFL team and kind of got snubbed on that. So maybe this is his way of sticking it back to the NFL higher up, saying, okay, well, I'm going to say you can't even call it football anymore.
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Sarah
Well, given the amount of time they spend carrying the ball in their hands, it doesn't seem entirely right that it's the game that gets.
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Host
I think this is the point. I think this is the point he was making.
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And Sarah, on the broader point of like, well, why FIFA done this. The fact that America is going to be seeing a huge influx of teams and fans from around the world, and we'd quite like that to be, you know, pass off without any trouble or without any entanglements with ice or any other government agencies or Trump getting cross about the tournament, maybe getting the papier mache out and covering a balloon in gold paint and giving it to him. It's got a small price to pay for Giano Infantino, the head of FIFA, who I read has met Trump more than any other world leader. If this is what you need to do to get your tournament to pass off without any trouble, it is probably worth doing.
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Anthony
Isn't.
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Sarah
Would be. But let's see if that is the case. So they're best friends at the moment. And Gianni and Fantino even popped up in Egypt when they were signing the Israel Gaza peace deal at Donald Trump's side. He's been traveling with them all over the place. It's been absolutely bizarre for the last few months. So it's not a guarantee. I don't think just because he got a big glittery award that he's necessarily not going to meddle with this World Cup.
- [08:33]
Host
Well, we'll wait and see. It's well worth having a look at the prize online if you haven't seen it already. Let's move on. We've got Peter on the line. Hello, Peter.
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Justin
Hello there.
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Host
Where in the world are you, Peter?
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Justin
I'm in Sheffield, actually.
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Host
Lovely. What is your question?
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Justin
Well, my question is, does Trump's new national security strategy seal the arrival of.
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Sarah
A New World order with Trump in alliance with Putin and Europe sidelines making us extremely vulnerable? And do Europe's leaders need to face up to the uncomfortable truth and stop.
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Host
Calling America an ally?
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Sarah
Because effectively, Trump has taken over Americas?
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Host
Justin. Should European allies still see America. Sorry. Should European leaders see America as an ally?
- [09:20]
Justin
I'll give you two parts to that. Number one, if I could deal with a wider question first, I don't think this National Security strategy paper is as revolutionary about the rest of the world than it is about Europe. So if you take the rest of the world. So he's still effectively trying to keep the Chinese out of Taiwan and it talks a Bit about that. He's still trying to make sure that the Middle east remains open for international trade and obviously trade in oil, et cetera, et cetera. No great change there. You could sort of map that all the way back to Nixon, really. It's just in Europe that they have these really caustic things to say in terms about European elites who they think have led Europe into potential longer term oblivion. And on that, I mean, they would say the view is of Anthony and Sarah, but I would say, looking at it, that they would say they are issuing a warning to Europe, albeit they would say also a friendly warning, but a sharp warning that Europe is on a path that they regard as unsustainable. So a path towards civilizational decline. A path towards an inability to stand up to anyone, let alone the Russians, because we don't have the proper defense industries, et cetera, et cetera. All the things that they have been saying for some time solidified in quite an undiplomatic set of.
- [10:47]
Sentences. But it seems to me that that's the potentially revolutionary bit about this, the rest of the world, not so much.
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Sarah
In a couple of paragraphs talking about Europe in this national security strategy, it says that in Europe economic decline is eclipsed by the real and more stark prospect civilizational erasure. It talks about the way in which migration is changing European countries and creating strife as it transforms the continent. Criticizes censorship of free speech, suppression of political opposition, cratering birth rates and a loss of national identity and self confidence, all of which it says is basically undermining democracy and political liberty in Europe. So I mean, it's a very, very stark criticism and one that a lot of European leaders will not be happy to accept. The idea that they meddling in democracy by trying to stymie smaller right wing parties, that kind of thing, or that free speech is under threat in Europe. It's a proper clash of civilizations kind of picture.
- [11:48]
Anthony
Right? Right. Criticism we've heard before, people like Pete Hegseth the defense secretary and J.D. vance, the vice President. But here it is in an official document that each new administration comes out with that sets out kind of their national and global security framework that they're going to adjust all their policies to reflect. And so you have that t tied to American foreign policy and American diplomatic relations with Europe. A call for Europe to spend more money on their defense, a kind of a decoupling from European security objectives and a focus. Yes, and as Justin said, a focus on working with China, containing China in a way more by boosting up other Asian countries to be a check on China. But there's really a big focus also on the Western Hemisphere. And the idea of this Monroe Doctrine, where this is a doctrine from James Monroe, a president in the early 19th century, that anything in the Americas basically is the United States backyard. And we have kind of a geopolitical supremacy over that. And you're seeing that reflected in the buildup of 15,000 troops in the Caribbean, the bombing of boats in international waters there coming out of Venezuela. It is a restructuring of the world into spheres of influence where the United States takes the Western Hemisphere. China maybe has its way in Asia. Russia and Europe kind of have to hash it out in the European continent. And that hearkens back to 19th century imperialism. It is a dramatic change from the view that America had of the world after World War II, where it was a community of nations and we all kind of tried to work together to make sure the world as a whole was a peaceful place.
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Host
Great question. Thanks for that, Peter. And I'm sure the details of it will be picked over more. Let's move on. I want to talk about Venezuela. Andre in Somerset has been asked, said, could you ask the Americans, they think General Bradley should go on trial for war crimes. If he does, who conducts the hearing? And would Trump have pardon power over that decision? Same question for Hegseth. Do you want to start with the background to all? Let's unpack. Who is General Bradley? Why might he go on trial for war crimes? First of all, Sarah.
- [14:05]
Sarah
Yes. So as I'm sure listeners know, there had been a whole series of airstrikes on boats in the Caribbean Sea coming from Venezuela that the Trump administration say are smuggling drugs. And they have. Well, they haven't declared war because they haven't had a congressional declaration of war. But they say they are at war against these drug cartels and claim the right to bomb them in the sea. The very first strike in September killed five people on board one boat. But they could see from their satellite imagery that there were two survivors. A second strike then went in and killed them. And there's been a very heated debate about whether that is breaching the rules of war, the laws of war, because you've got survivors there who are helpless. They no longer pose any kind of threat. And to kill them in those circumstances, yeah. Is either a war crime or murder. Admiral Bradley is the one who was conducting the airstrikes. But under orders from the defense secretary, our secretary of War, Pete Hegseth, who was the one who had said that they should strike these drug boats and so some people are saying it's perfectly and entirely justified. Republicans, mostly Democrats, say they've never seen anything so awful in their lives. And there's now pressure to release the video of what happened so that everybody can see exactly how this went down.
- [15:18]
Host
Anthony, in terms of the pressure on Pete Hegseth, how much trouble is he in potentially?
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Anthony
It seems like Republicans are circling the wagons around him. And that wasn't necessarily going to be the case last week when we saw some Republicans after the first reports about the second strike and the fact that it looked like there were two survivors who were not engaged in any kind of hostile activities, were kind of clinging to wreckage and waving and trying to wave for help, and then they were targeted and killed. There were some Republicans who were critical of that, and they said, you know, we needed robust hearings and we need to get to the bottom of this. And we saw General Admiral Bradley come in at that point, as well as the. The Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Kaine come in and talk to members of Congress. And after that, it seemed like things went back to kind of their partisan corners, where Republicans were defending Hegseth, were defending the military actions. Democrats were calling for more disclosures and for this footage of the second strike to be made public. So it seems like he right now at least has the president's backing, his party's backing, and he's weathered the storm. The question is, what happens if this video does get released? And Hegseth says they're reviewing it. Donald Trump, for his part, said, oh, yeah, we can release it fine. But if we see people who are clearly in distress waving and then were blown up while they're clinging to wreckage, you know, that may renew calls for Hegseth to be held accountable. And to get back to the original question, you know, who would hold him accountable? The United States is not a party to the International Criminal Court, so he couldn't really be brought up. The United States wouldn't participate in any kind of prosecution of him or Admiral Bradley. If they were, then Trump couldn't pardon him for that. But if there's some sort of accountability here in the United States, it'd be hard to fathom how that would happen. What body would be reviewing war crimes? I mean, there's civilian trials, military tribunals that could be held, but that is a long way down the road. And as long as Donald Trump is president, I don't think there's any kind of realistic possibility of that.
- [17:25]
Justin
Yeah, when it comes to international action, I mean, the most of what happens, they couldn't go to certain countries, I suppose if they were prosecuted, in which they could be. But as Anthony said, they're not going to be handed over to any court and America doesn't recognize those courts. I think there's also a wider question. It's not just we rather focus on these two individuals in the sea who were or were not unlawfully killed. I mean, the whole thing strikes a lot of people, including a lot of Republicans actually, as totally unlawful. This is international waters. Can you just kill people in international waters? If you say that they're doing something harmful to you, even if they are potentially doing something harmful, what's the legality of that? So there are all sorts of threads to be pulled here, which I don't think the Trump administration is not a great one for pulling those kind of threads. But who knows, in a decade's time, all of the people involved in this might feel that, might fear, I suppose that they will.
- [18:18]
Host
It could be looked at again by future administration. Thanks, Andre, for that question. It's a great question. Let's focus. We've done quite a bit of foreign policy today. Let's talk about the thing that we often say people in the US Actually care about most, which is the cost of living. We've had a voice Note from Daniel.
- [18:31]
Justin
G' day AmericasT this is Daniel from Geelong in Australia. As we approach the end of the year, I'm wondering whether there's a brewing sentiment in America on how the cost of living continues to affect everyday Americans. Trump, of course, promised that life would become more affordable under his presidency, but that doesn't yet seem to have been the case. So if everyday cost pressures continue, could this become an existential threat for Trump and the MAGA movement? Thanks for the show. From someone geographically almost as far away from Washington as possible and from us.
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Host
Thanks. That's a great question. This feels like we need to ask you about your eggs, Sarah. Have they got an up down, hard boiled or otherwise?
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Sarah
Eggs have genuinely come down in price and you hear the president talking about that all the time as he's, he's very proud of that because they did become a symbol of the cost of living crisis. But other grocery prices have not. And this is yes, yes and yes. Are the answers to Daniel's questions about, yeah, is it a problem and could it become an even bigger one? Yeah, very much so. It's being called the affordability crisis because Donald Trump was elected largely on his promises to bring down prices for ordinary Americans. That hasn't happened. Some people are saying they feel that they're spending more than ever. And he's actually very rare trip he's taking outside of the White House this week. He goes abroad all the time, but he's done hardly any events or rallies or anything inside America since he was reelected. He's going to Pennsylvania tomorrow to do something to try and highlight where they are, have brought prices down and are trying to in other ways. But, I mean, his poll ratings have slipped really significantly for the first time. And I would say it's all around about this affordability crisis, not helped by the fact that he says it's a Democrat con and that there is no crisis. And what we know from Joe Biden's administration is telling people that they're wrong when they say that they feel as though they're worse off than they were before is not a great political strategy.
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Host
Anthony, have you noticed as the price of deep fried turkey has come down.
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Anthony
I think turkey's all right. Beef actually is really high. And that is a sore point for a lot of Americans. The price of consumer in general, electricity is higher and. Yeah. So that is something that is a political liability for Trump and the Republicans. I wouldn't go so far as to call it existential at this point, but there is a acknowledgement within the White House, within senior Republican advisors, that Trump has to do something about this, has to try to convince Americans that things are working. And right now, the line from them is things will get better because all the stuff that was in the big beautiful bill earlier this year is gonna start to kick into effect and people's taxes are gonna go down and what they're doing with beef, they'll find a way of lowering that, and that all is gonna make Americans feel better next year. But the clock is ticking. And clearly there are some Americans, a lot of Americans, who feel like the promises Trump made on the campaign trail of lowering prices just haven't been realized and they're still hurting.
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Justin
Weirdly. The thing that might rescue him, I suppose, is the Supreme Court. If it has a decision about tariffs that is unfavorable to Donald Trump. In other words, it strikes down those tariffs that have come before us. Not all of them, but some of them. Yeah, yeah. Which it could do. And suddenly the tariffs aren't there and prices go down because imports are. Yeah. So he's able to rail against the Supreme Court, plus benefit from what they do to him.
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Ad Presenter
Right.
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Justin
We're off the air now with Matt Chorley on five Live. But we are all of us still here, and we want to talk A little bit more about this extraordinary document that has been released that attacks European governments at least, and elites in terms that, as Anthony was saying, echo things that have already been said, but really also put them in writing in a way that is quite stark for a lot of European elites in particular. On the other hand, I think for a lot of ordinary Europeans will potentially hit home. I mean, that, Sarah, the overwhelming sense you get from it is that they're not willing to give up on Europe entirely yet. But my goodness, they don't think much of us, to put it bluntly.
- [22:42]
Sarah
No, contemptuous, basically. And also with what they think are the political cultural weaknesses of Europe will lead the economies to grow so weak that they can no longer afford to defend themselves and therefore not be useful allies. So it's not just criticism for the sake of it. They're actually saying Europe will not be strong enough to be worth being allied with if they continue down the path they're going at the moment. And that's where it's got potential consequences for NATO for whether or not Europe can rely on America, and big consequences for Russia and Ukraine, because although Russia is not fulsomely praised, I mean, they're criticizing European countries for political censorship, for restricting free speech, but there's no criticism like that put towards Putin or Russia. And a pretty clear sense actually of whose side America is on there and how irritating they find European interventions to try and stick up for Ukraine over recent peace talks have been.
- [23:38]
Anthony
Yeah, there was a line in that security document that talked about how some NATO countries are in danger of becoming majority non European, which, I mean, I assume you have to read that as majority non white, which, I mean, it's kind of a dramatic thing to say in a security document that, as in that's a bad thing, like, you know, these are going to be majority non European countries and therefore, in their view, less reliable. It goes to what we've heard from Stephen Miller and some of the other top advisors in this White House about how the United States is engaged in a battle for Western civilization, and that is animating all of American foreign policy. This kind of a clash of civilizations, clash of culture, and that Europe is essentially ceding the battlefield in this fight and can't be a reliable partner.
- [24:32]
Justin
I think it's about religious faith, isn't it? It's Muslim. I mean, they are. It's number one, they're allying themselves with parties in Europe who think that there is a potential threat from inside Europe because of migration and because of differing birth rates, that European Countries will become much more dominated, if not completely dominated, by people who profess the Muslim faith. And.
- [24:59]
You know, that is something within European countries that is enormously controversial to say or to talk about. And the Americans and the White House and the Trump White House, in a sense, go there. But it just seems to me that I don't think they speak necessarily for majority populations in any of the individual countries of Europe necessarily, but they do. And this is the interesting thing, isn't it, Sarah? They tweak the noses of the existing governments in many European governments, including, frankly, the British government, because they do ally themselves with significant minority opinion that says, you know what? We think we have got a problem along these lines and we're not dealing with it.
- [25:43]
Anthony
Yeah. When you say non European, I mean, yes, you may be not Christian the way we envision, like, classical Europeanism, but also, I mean, if people are coming from the Middle east, if they're coming from Asia, if they're coming from Africa, they're not white. And so I think there is a subtext of this that has to be addressed, and that is this is clearly saying Europe is becoming less Christian, less white. That's bad.
- [26:09]
Justin
Yeah. And the other thing that they focus on in terms just looking at it here, should present trends continue, the authors write, the continent will be unrecognizable in 20 years or less. As such, it's far from obvious whether certain European countries, countries will have economies and militaries strong enough to remain reliable allies. It's not necessarily untrue, actually, when it comes to the economies and the militaries. When you think of how European economies, I'm thinking particularly the British economy at the moment, has performed since the financial crash compared with the United States, it is pretty stark. We have not managed to get back on the bike, as it were, whereas the United States has. And it seems to me that a lot of people in Europe might say, well, it's reasonable, if a bit rude, to point that out.
- [26:58]
Sarah
Yeah. Fewer of them, though, would agree that it's tied as closely to the immigration issue as this paper seems to make it say.
- [27:04]
Justin
That's the point, isn't it?
- [27:05]
Sarah
And of course, Donald Trump's made a very big deal about trying to get NATO members to increase their spending on defence pretty successfully. All, bar one, are now committed to spending 5% of GDP on defense. That's a big hike from what was 2%. In fact, they probably still don't think it's enough. And that's been an od. Ongoing issue between Europe and the United States. But yeah, the sense that the economy will fail and therefore your defence infrastructure will fail because of your immigration policy is what's mostly controversial about this.
- [27:35]
Justin
Right. Let's pivot from civilizational failure to civilizational success. Because, Anthony, you are with Donald Trump. Weren't you on Saturday night watching an award for Sylvester Stallone?
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Anthony
I was. This is the Kennedy Center Honors. It's an annual award that the Kennedy center gives out to a variety of leading lights in entertainment and culture. And this year, Donald Trump has taken a very active part in this. He replaced the Kennedy center board. He put Rick Grinnell, who was a Trump ally and foreign policy advisor in charge of the Kennedy Center. He himself is the president of the board. He said he was very involved in picking who these award recipients would be. And not just Sylvester Stallone, the band, the heavy metal band kiss from the 1970s, Gloria Gaynor, who sang that disco song I Will Survive. We saw also Michael Crawford, who I think most Americans know as the Phantom in Phantom of the Opera, but I guess you Brits probably know from a variety of television programs and comedies on British television and George Strait, the country music star. Although we didn't hear Donald Trump talk a lot about George Strait, I don't think he knows as much about country music as he does about Broadway musicals and maybe even New York based heavy metal bands. But yeah, I was there in the Oval Office for the awards ceremony where Donald Trump put these medals on all the various members who were receiving them and then went to a dinner at the State Department in the Ben Franklin Ballroom at the State Department very fancy black tie event. Donald Trump spoke for about 45 minutes. And then on Sunday night where I wasn't there, but Donald Trump went to the Kennedy center where the big gala, awards gala was. And this is this made for television production that is aired on a network every year and has been for years. Past recipients there have been Paul McCartney, Johnny Cash, Aretha Franklin, Denzel Washington. But this time, in a kind of a unique Trumpian twist, the host was not Stephen Colbert, who was a past host, was not some David Letterman, some celebrity. The host was Donald Trump and he was the master of ceremonies. He was the one who was introducing the various recipients. He was a constant, unmistakable presence through it all. Now, this won't be aired on television until later this month on cbs, but by all accounts, he was a very affable host and kept things moving along through a variety of live comments as well as pre taped appearances throughout the show. So it was all Donald Trump all the time.
- [30:19]
Sarah
Yeah, we've had a question in from Tim, who said that he recently read Trump had taken over the Kennedy center, the US's national center for the Performing Arts. And he said, I understand he has become the new chair and replaced the trustees with members of his own administration. If I was an American, I think I would find this insidious and wondered how far this administration was imposing itself on the cultural life of America and the effect and the reaction it was having. Having. Well, Timmit's had a pretty stark reaction at the Kennedy Center. Now, I don't know how many people outside of Washington, D.C. necessarily care about that, because although it is technically the national center for the Performing Arts, it's. It's a pretty local venue, to be perfectly honest. But the what's on has changed radically as the board has changed. There's going to be no more woke performances on there, they promised, and old drag acts have disappeared and been replaced. Pretty mainstream family entertainment. I mean, what's on right now is Monty Python's Spamalot.
- [31:15]
Anthony
Yeah, Les Mis was on earlier. The National Symphony always plays there. And I think that the proof will be in the pudding when this awards show, which is the one thing I think that the American public writ large sees about the Kennedy center and gets some national attention when that airs with Donald Trump as a host. Donald Trump has said this is going to be the highest rated show in the history the Kennedy Center Honors. Let's see how it does. I mean, maybe there is an audience for this. Maybe by picking some maybe more unusual awards, recipients of his Sylvester Stallone being celebrated for his cultural achievements, the band Kiss. Maybe this will reach out to this forgotten men and women that Donald Trump campaigned on elevating in politics.
- [31:59]
Sarah
Ticket sales have plummeted at the Kennedy center and performances are half empty, apparently. But that's. I mean, that could be that the residents of Washington D.C. don't share the same cultural taste as Donald Trump and his friends.
- [32:10]
Justin
And it's not even the residents of Washington D.C. it's the residents of a particular quarter of Washington D.C. the northwest.
- [32:18]
Host
Quarter, where all the.
- [32:19]
Justin
All the wealthy folk live, isn't it? I was always struck when I went there just how elitist it was and not in the kind of any sort of positive sense that it was kind of pandering to cultural wonderment and all the rest of it. I just thought it was all full of people looking over each other's shoulders to see who else was there. And actually, I think in a way, for me, my memory of it, if it slightly democratizes it, even if it's a bit lower brow. I'm not sure necessarily that that's a bad thing, to be honest.
- [32:49]
Anthony
Yeah, I mean, I remember going to the Kennedy center as a college student here a long time ago and enjoying shows. I remember taking dates there. It's not all, I mean, yes, the high profile things, the opening night of the National Symphony, the operas, the Kennedy center honors, that definitely is very cliquish and it very much caters to that kind of elite Washington that Donald Trump was very successful in railing against. But there were also other things that were very fun. The Abbreviated Abridged Shakespeare Company would do these really funny versions of Shakespeare plays that I would go and see. And it does seem like now they're struggling to sell tickets that other arts venues in Washington, D.C. it seems like they've raised their ticket prices because their shows are selling out. And they're kind of capitalizing on the fact that the Kennedy center, which for a long time was not political, was apolitical. There was a bipartisan board that ran it with appointees from Republicans and Democrats. And it was this idea of a place where everyone from both sides of the aisle in Washington come and enjoy culture. Like that has changed now and it has been sucked into the culture wars and polarized by Donald Trump like everything else in this country.
- [34:02]
Justin
Okay, if anyone is listening who has been on a date with Anthony to the Kennedy center, could they get in touch? Otherwise, that's it.
- [34:10]
Anthony
Bye bye, bye bye.
- [34:18]
Thank you for listening to another episode. It's you, the Ameracaster that makes AmericasT the community it is. If you like what you've heard, please do subscribe to this podcast on BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts. We always want to hear your feedback and we look at every single bit of correspondence we get. You can send us an email americastbc.co.uk our WhatsApp is 433-01-239480 and of course you can get involved in the AmericasT Discord server. The link to that is in the description. Until next time. Bye.
- [35:15]
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There'S no funds in this account?
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