Inside Mamdani’s campaign to be mayor of New York City

Summary

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Americast (BBC News)

Episode: Inside Mamdani’s campaign to be mayor of New York City

Date: October 23, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the phenomenon of Zoran Mamdani’s rapid rise from an unknown Democratic Socialist polling at near 0% to the clear frontrunner in the New York City mayoral race. The hosts and special guest, New Yorker writer Eric Latch, dissect Mamdani's campaign strategies, policy proposals, challenges he faces—especially skepticism about his ability to deliver—and his ability to command both fervent support and heated opposition. Touchpoints include Mamdani’s response to accusations regarding his stances on police funding and Israel, his challenging relationship with New York's political establishment, and the broader national ramifications of his insurgent candidacy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why the New York City Mayoralty Matters

• Economic & Political Significance
  • Anthony Zurcher highlights that New York is "America's most populous city...the financial capital...a cultural center...[and] a center of media" (04:43). Its $116bn budget and 300,000 employees make for a combinatory power base and stage for national prominence.
• Influence Resonates Nationally
  • Mayors often become national figures (e.g., Bloomberg, Giuliani); what happens in NYC politics is seen as a bellwether or trendsetter.

2. The Current Race: Unconventional Dynamics

• Republican Candidates Not Competitive
  • Curtis Sliwa is described as having a low base of support and "really kind of the third in line here for the job" (07:33).
• Andrew Cuomo as Spoiler
  • Cuomo, a Democrat-turned-independent, "potentially...splitting the left wing vote," which bolsters Mamdani (08:25).
• Incumbent Eric Adams' Exit
  • Adams bowed out, leaving Mamdani as the clear frontrunner (09:13).

3. Who Is Zoran Mamdani?

• Background
  • At 33, Mamdani is the first Muslim mayoral candidate in NYC, highly progressive, charismatic, and notably skilled as a communicator, especially on social media (10:13).
• Appeal to Younger Voters
  • His campaign has energized younger citizens, drawn by both persona and politics.

4. Campaign Message and Communication

• Focus on Economic Issues

  • "What good is that [NYC being great] if no one can afford to live here? City hall is engulfed in corruption. The cost of living is the real crisis..." – Zoran Mamdani (11:02)
  • Avoids cultural wedge issues; instead laser-focused on affordability, housing, and transit.

• Mainstream Praise for Campaign Discipline

  • James Carville and David Axelrod (noted centrists) both praise his clear messaging and campaign discipline, considering it a model approach (12:50).

5. Key Policy Proposals

• Affordability & Social Spending
  • Free buses, state-run grocery stores in food deserts, citywide free childcare—all requiring significant new funds (16:09).
• Funding Plans
  • Increase income tax for those earning over $1m (+2%), raise corporate taxes from 7% to 11.5%. "Even just...personal income taxes would raise $4 billion" – Sarah Smith (16:43).
• Questions About Feasibility
  • Key taxes require state approval, and Governor Hochul is "not at all keen" on raising taxes (17:27).
  • "Can you actually raise the kind of money that he says he wants to spend?" – Justin Webb (17:27)
  • "The mayor of New York has not so much power over taxing...something that's very unrealistic for him to be able to pull off." – Anthony Zurcher (18:11)

6. Handling Past Controversies

• Police Funding & 'Defund' Statements

  • Previously supported defunding the police—now explicitly apologizes: "He has since...met far more police officers. He's sorry...He no longer has those views." – Sarah Smith (19:50).
  • Hosts agree this pivot, if done convincingly, is a workable campaign move.

• Israel, Gaza & Accusations of Anti-Semitism

  • Criticized for past refusals to condemn "globalize the intifada" and statements on Israel’s legitimacy (23:01–23:38).
  • Appears effective at explaining his views to younger and even Jewish voters, but tension remains with Democratic establishment (21:10).

7. Opposition and National Ramifications

• Donald Trump Directly Targeting Mamdani

  • "We're going to have a Communist as the mayor of New York...He’s got to go through the White House." – Donald Trump (24:54).
  • Threats of federal funding withdrawal and other punitive actions.

• Mamdani on Confrontation

  • “If [Trump] wants to talk...about lowering the cost of living...I will always be ready and willing. But if he wants...to pursue [deportations or attacks on opponents]...I will fight him every single step of the way.” – Mamdani (26:25)

• Democratic Party Tensions

  • Mainstream party leaders (Schumer, Jeffries) have withheld endorsements, partly due to Mamdani's stance on Israel and concern over the effect on swing suburban districts (34:10–35:19).

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Guest Insights: Eric Latch (The New Yorker)

• Mamdani’s Political Skillset

  • "Confidence and discipline" are his defining traits. "He doesn't get knocked off message very easily." (28:31)
  • Message discipline: not just slogans, but a "rhetorical playbook" deployed with consistency (29:36).

• Ability to Navigate Challenges

  • Expects hard questions on police management; highlights Mamdani’s flexibility by potentially retaining Police Commissioner Jessica Tisch, a non-socialist (31:42).

• Affordability Issue Resonates

  • "Mamdani made a bet that it was going to be about affordability, and Mamdani won that contest." (32:00)

• Limitations of Policy in Practice

  • Rent freeze only affects ~25% of housing; acknowledges the "first chapter" of a much bigger affordability story (32:52).

• Relationship with Democratic Establishment

  • "An insurgent faction...in conflict with mainstream and establishment leaders." (34:10)
  • Party support from Hochul, but not from key figures like Schumer/Jeffries due to Israel and national electoral risk.

• Mamdani’s National Potential

  • Rapid rise is remarkable: “The question of can he consolidate his power and then use that as a platform...Certainly, mayors...have had bigger aspirations...” (37:46)
  • Not eligible for presidency (born in Uganda), yet could become a national model.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Mamdani’s Platform vs. Competitors:
  • "A mayor could change this. And that's why I'm running." – Zoran Mamdani (11:05)
• On Mamdani’s Appeal:
  • “He is a newcomer to the scene… very charismatic. He’s got a big, big following.” – Sarah Smith (10:13)
• On Political Discipline:
  • "He is controlled, and he says what he wants to say. He doesn't get knocked off message very easily." – Eric Latch (28:31)
• On Accusations of Extremism / Anti-Semitism:
  • “I have never, not once, spoken in support of global jihad… much of it has to do with the fact that I am the first Muslim candidate to be on the precipice of winning.” – Mamdani (22:17)
• On National/Trump Dynamic:
  • “If he wants to talk to me about...lowering the cost of living, I will always be ready and willing. But...I will fight him every single step of the way.” – Mamdani (26:25)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:43 | Why the New York mayorship is uniquely important | | 07:33 | GOP candidate’s irrelevance and role of Andrew Cuomo | | 09:13 | Incumbent Eric Adams bows out | | 10:13 | Mamdani’s background, charisma, youth | | 11:05 | Mamdani campaign video excerpt (“what good is that...”) | | 12:50 | Endorsements from Carville, Axelrod (mainstream support) | | 16:09 | Breakdown of Mamdani’s major policy promises | | 16:43 | Detailed revenue proposal for funding | | 19:50 | Handling police/‘defund’ controversy; apology tour | | 21:10 | Mamdani’s polling among Jewish voters despite Israel criticism | | 23:01 | Responding to being accused of supporting global jihad | | 24:54 | Trump labels Mamdani a "Communist" and hints at federal interference | | 28:31 | Eric Latch: on Mamdani’s confidence and discipline | | 29:36 | Latch on message discipline and slogans | | 32:00 | Affordability vs. public safety: how the issue determined primary| | 32:52 | Rent freeze proposal details and limitations | | 34:10 | Tense relationship with the Democratic Party establishment | | 37:46 | Assessing Mamdani’s consolidation and wider appeal |

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Conclusion

The episode positions Zoran Mamdani as a once-in-a-generation political phenomenon in NYC: someone with disciplined, populist messaging and deep appeal to the city’s frustrated renters and younger voters. While his policies are ambitious—and, critics argue, sometimes unrealistic—his skills as a communicator and strategic campaigner make him a central figure both locally and in the broader national discussion. The episode explores doubts about what he can actually achieve, his ability to reposition himself on controversial issues, and the uncertainty of his relations with both Trump-led Washington and the Democratic establishment at home.

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For listeners and observers: Zoran Mamdani’s campaign is not just about the fate of New York, but a test case for progressive urban politics in 21st-century America—with all the hope, controversy, and scrutiny that entails.

Transcript

[Host (Justin Webb)]

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[Host (Justin Webb)]

Learn [e-mail] how did a virtually unknown 33 year old socialist democrat who polled close to 0% when he launched his campaign last year become the frontrunner for one of America's biggest and most powerful positions? Zoran Mamdani is leading the race to become the next mayor of New York. He's doing it with big promises, which many say are idealistic and can't be delivered. Voting starts on Saturday and last night the candidates had their final live debate.

[Andrew Cuomo]

You have never had a job. You've never accomplished anything. There's no reason to believe you have any merit or qualification for 8 and a half million lives.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Who was leading the state?

[Andrew Cuomo]

It was you, Governor H. You were leading the state for screwing the city.

[Curtis Sliwa]

Jody, your resume could fit on a cocktail napkin. And Andrew, your failures could fill a public school library in New York City.

[Andrew Cuomo]

You're the savior of the Jewish people. You won't denounce globalized Intifada, which means kill Jews. There's unprecedented fear in New York.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I have never, not once, spoken in support of global jihad. That is not something that I have said and that continues to be ascribed to me. And frankly, I think much of it has to do with the that I am the first Muslim candidate to be on the precipice of winning this election.

[Andrew Cuomo]

President Trump has to respect you. He has said he'll take over New York if Mondami wins, and he will because he has no respect for him. He thinks he's a kid and he's gonna knock him on his tuchus.

[Zoran Mamdani]

But I've been spending the last year listening to New Yorkers, and I know what actually keeps you up. It's whether or not you can afford to live a safe and dignified life. And in this city, I have plans for our future. My opponents only have fear.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

So in this episode, two things. First, what does Mandani want to do in New York? And secondly, can he deliver it? Welcome to AmericasT.

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

AmericasT.

[BBC Announcer]

AmericasT, from BBC News.

[Curtis Sliwa]

When Donald Trump calls, they say, yes, sir, right away, sir. Happy to lick your boot, sir.

[Zoran Mamdani]

We are the sickest country in the world.

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Oh, dear.

[BBC Announcer]

Are you worried that billionaires are going to go hungry?

[Anthony (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Of course the president supports peaceful protests. What a stupid question.

[Donald Trump]

Are you still talking about Jeffrey and Epstein?

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Hello, it's Sarah here in the BBC's bureau in Washington.

[Anthony (BBC Washington Bureau)]

And it's Anthony right next to Sarah here in Washington D.C. and it's Justin.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

In the worldwide headquarters of AmericasT in London, England. And I should say right at the beginning, this episode is coming to you very much by popular demand. A lot of you, particularly on the Discord server, have been asking us to look at Zoran Mamdani, the man, the phenomenon, the whole business of what is about to happen in New York in much more detail. And that, Sarah and Anthony, is what we're gonna do today.

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Yeah. And joined by a guest, a New Yorker who's actually followed Zoran Mandami around a lot of his campaign, spent time with him out on the streets, had dinner in his apartment, and he has some very interesting thoughts on just how Mohammed might handle Trump if he's elected, as well as why his election campaign seems to be going so well.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

Okay, first things first, Anthony, we ought to set out first of all, why being mayor of New York is so important. I mean, there's an obvious reason, isn't there? New York is a big place. It's kind of, it's, it's, it's the size of, of a medium sized country when it comes to its economics and indeed its, its population. But it's more than that.

[Anthony (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Yeah. And New York is America's most populous city. It's also, if you ask New Yorkers, its most important city. And they have grounds for saying that because it is the financial capital of the United States, if not the world. It is a major port. It is also a cultural center for this country. It is a center of media, which I think has a lot of relevance because things that happen in New York and in New York politics tend to resonate across the country, say real estate developers who are make their name in New York and sometimes go on to higher office. I think we can think of one in particular who has done that. It also has one of the largest police departments in this country, a police department that's larger than the army of Belgium, I believe. And it has about $116 billion in its annual budget and 300,000 employees. And new York City is a big place, and it is a very important place when it comes to American politics. So even though we're just talking about a mayor, this is just one city. It is a mayor that has a unique platform and cultural visibility in this country compared to no one else in this country. In local politics, there's been a lot.

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Of very famous mayors of New York, haven't they? I mean, I'm immediately thinking of Mike Bloomberg and Rudy Giuliani, but I'm sure.

[Anthony (BBC Washington Bureau)]

You can remember others, Bill de Blasio, you know, who. Who also came in as a kind of a. A progressive reformer just a few years ago. And then there was a lot of hype around him as the new face of the Democratic Party. The kind of Bernie Sanders who actually got elected to an influential office, and then that all kind of petered out. The list goes on and on. And it can be a very powerful position, a position where someone has vision and political skills can really change the face of New York. They think about Rudy Giuliani, what he did with fighting crime, or Bloomberg, the way he changed New York's finances and the operations of New York and modernized some of that. So it is. But it also is a role with a certain amount of limitations. There are limits to power and limits that Mamdani, with all of his promises, could run head on into if he gets elected.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

Yeah, we need to talk about some of those limits because it is really interesting what he can and can't do before we get though to him. Just on the subject of who the candidates are this time round, something immediately strikes me from what you've just said, Anthony. In that list of people, that list of famous New York mayors, it's both parties and Republicans can win and have won very successfully and governed successfully in New York in the past. But this time round, if we go through the candidates and there is a Republican candidate, are we saying we are certain that he can't win?

[Anthony (BBC Washington Bureau)]

I think we're fairly certain he can't win. This is Curtis Silwa, who's been around in Republican and New York politics for quite some Time, I believe he founded a law enforcement group, an independent law enforcement group, the Guardian Angels, I think that's what they're called. That had a certain amount of notoriety in trying to clean up the streets of New York. But he doesn't have a broad popularity base. And according to polls, he is not a real factor in this. And it takes a unique set of circumstances for a Republican like Rudy Giuliani or Bloomberg, although he kind of switched back and forth between Republican and independent and Democratic for them to break through and win a race in New York. But in this circumstance, he's really kind of the third in line here for the job. The big name that everyone might remember, of course, is Andrew Cuomo, right?

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Yeah, absolutely. Because he was governor of New York and during COVID he was much lauded and praised, wasn't he? Everybody thought that he was running New York better than Trump was running America. The early stages of COVID and he was being talked about as having a great bright future. But then there were some sexual harassment allegations and he resigned under a cloud. And that all got very, very messy. And we might have thought we'd seen the last of him, but no, no, he came back to fight to get the Democratic nomination to stand for mayor. He didn't. That went to Zoram Mamdami. So he is running, well, essentially as an independent here, but everybody knows he's a Democrat. Everybody remembers him being a Democratic governor of the state. And so potentially you could be splitting the left wing vote there, which is what seems to be giving Zoram Mamdame such a great chance.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

Yeah, and we should mention the incumbent, shouldn't we? I mean, there is a mayor of New York at the moment, but he's dropped out, hasn't he? Eric Adams, this is the guy accused of various pieces of corruption and weirdly close now to Donald Trump. He hasn't endorsed anyone, has he? But he's not going to be much of a factor. In other words, he doesn't have a block, really, does he, of people that he can deliver to a candidate.

[Anthony (BBC Washington Bureau)]

He was polling in the single digits, the low single digits, as the incumbent running for re election. That kind of prompted him to drop out. And apparently after the debate that we heard clips from just then, last night, he went to a Knicks NBA game and sat next to Andrew Cuomo. So the two of them have been linked together, but he is basically a non factor in this race. The big factor, of course, is Zohran Mamdani, who is polling near a majority of the entire race. And he is a newcomer to the scene.

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Yeah, he's not exactly. Anthony, what you might expect for somebody who is so far ahead is he. He's very young. He's the first Muslim mayoral candidate for New York, and he's pretty left wing. And we'll get into some of the details of his policies and the very big promises that he's making. But he has really burst onto the scene in New York. He's captured a huge amount of attention. He's very charismatic. He's got a big, big following, very devoted following from younger voters as well. And it's that it's his personality as well as his politics that have really shaken up this race.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

Yeah, let's get a taste of that, Sarah. Because the thing that first brought him to a lot of people's attention was his ability on social media and the videos that he was putting out and the appeal of those videos, both in policy terms, but also just his ability to communicate.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Every politician.

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

New York is the greatest city on.

[Zoran Mamdani]

The globe, but what good is that if no one can afford to live here? City hall is engulfed in corruption. The cost of living is the real crisis. New Yorkers are being crushed by rent and childcare. The slowest buses in the nation are robbing us of our time and our sanity. Working people are being pushed out of the city they built. A mayor could change this. And that's why I'm running.

[Anthony (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Yeah, I think it's interesting to see the laser like focus he has in this clip and throughout his entire campaign on economic issues, on cost of living issues. You know, there's a lot of talk about Democrats focusing too much on cultural issues and getting distracted. Well, here's someone who is of the left who's not talking about cultural issues so much, even though he has an interesting cultural background. He is talking about affordability. And I think that is one of the things that has really resonated with a lot of New Yorkers and allowed him to slip past some of the critiques of him as lacking experience or being too extreme on the left.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

Tell you, I heard praising him the other day, Anthony, and that was. David Axelrod is absolutely mainstream Democratic Party, but has always said and was fiercely critical of the Biden administration because he always said we need to have a message that everyone understands and it's relevant to everyone. And it seems to me, if you've interested David Axelrod, who brought Obama to the White House and is very much a centrist and is also the son of Jewish emigres from Europe, incidentally, and that is Relevant as well. When you think of Mandami's position, particularly on the Palestinian issue, it just seems to me you're getting somewhere.

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Yet not just David Axelrod, Justin, I've seen on social media your favorite Democratic advisor, James Carville, also saying exactly the same thing, saying he teaches politics and he would use this campaign as a model for how to stick with the campaign discipline and get your message across.

[Anthony (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Right. And let's be honest, there are some very real problems with affordability in New York City. I think the average New Yorker spends more than 50% of their income on housing. The cost of housing is high. About half the houses, apartments in New York City are rent controlled, which means there is a city agency that determines how much rent can go up. Which on one hand, if you have one of those rent controlled apartments, it's great. You know, you live a much better lifestyle than you would if you had a non rent controlled apartment because those rents go up. But it also is contributing to scarcity in the city. They just aren't building a lot of new housing and that is driving up prices as well. I think the bigger picture is he's making proposals in the same way that Donald Trump does. He identifies needs and concerns of the Americans, comes up with something to say, this is what I want to do. People say, oh, well, you know, that's not realistic. But at least they believe that the candidate understands the nature of the problem, wants to do something about it.

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Yeah, Anthony, that's exactly right. And because I've been thinking as well that there were sort of echoes of Trump in this because I'm not sure that the people voting for him necessarily believe that he will be able to do everything that he's promising. But they like the idea that they think that he's on the same page as them and that even just trying to address some of these issues would be a big step forward. And so, yeah, there is something slightly Trumpian about making big promises in the hope that it's the vibes that people get from what it is you're saying you would do.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

Let's listen to how he deals with the criticisms that say, you don't know what you're talking about. You can't do any of these things that you want to do. You don't even have the power to do them because they're not done from the mayor's office. So that was very much a feature, wasn't it? That debate that we've had a little clip of. Let's hear a bit more of it with Andrew Cuomo kind of kicking off the attack on him.

[Andrew Cuomo]

You have never had a job. You've never accomplished anything. There's no reason to believe you have any merit or qualification for eight and a half million lives. You don't know how to run a government. You don't know how to handle an emergency. And you've literally never proposed a bill on anything that you're now talking about in your campaign. You had the worst attendance record in the assembly and you gave yourselves the highest raise in the United States of America. You went from $110,000 to $140,000. And then you never showed up for work and you missed 80% of the votes. Shame on you. Shame on you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

It is always a pleasure to hear Andrew Cuomo create his own facts at every debate stage. We just had a former governor say in his own words that the city has been getting screwed by the state. Who was leading the state?

[Andrew Cuomo]

It was you, Governor Hochul.

[Anthony (BBC Washington Bureau)]

The first thing I want to say here is I love New York debates. I love New Yorkers debating. I mean, it is throwing elbows and mixing it up. I love the accents. I love everything about that. We should also talk about a little bit about what Mamdani is proposing, because he is proposing some real policy issues. One is free buses. Another is state run grocery stores in places where there isn't enough grocery markets and things. These food deserts, as they call free childcare for infants in New York. Of course, all of this comes with a price tag, doesn't it, Sarah?

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Yeah, I mean, it sounds very expensive. And he's pretty straightforward about how he would raise the money because you've got quite a lot of power to raise taxes as the mayor of New York. And so it would be increasing income tax on everybody who makes more than a million dollars a year. That would go up by 2%. And he wants to increase the corporation tax as well from just over 7% to 11.5%. And he says even just the personal income taxes would raise 4 billion. I've heard him, though, interviewed about this and asked if there were other ways that he could do this. He's pretty flexible on the fundraising, but what he is doing is very open about saying to achieve this, the richest people will have to pay more tax in order to fund these improvements for people who have less. He's very open and straightforward about that.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

Although one of the things there is whether he does or doesn't have those powers. And actually the argument is for a lot of businesses is he doesn't have those powers. They really Are they reside with the governor of the state of New York, Kathy Hochul, who is a Democrat, but is not at all keen on Mamdani and also not at all keen on raising taxes. Because of course, in America you have a choice as a business, indeed as an individual, and people exercise that choice. You can go to a state with lower taxes. And the big risk if taxes do go up, because there is a risk that people will go. Now you can say they won't go, they'll end up just paying the taxes and staying. But Anthony, it's a live debate, isn't it? Can you actually raise the kind of money that he says he wants to spend?

[Anthony (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Yeah. And you point out, rightly, that Hochul controls that. She's a centrist. She has endorsed Mamdani, but I think it was kind of grudgingly, very late. Yeah, I guess Mamdani's theory is that he wins. He gets a mandate from the voters. He is able to use that to pressure other politicians and pressure the state to give him the flexibility. But it is going to take a lot of skill to try to. To try to get the state to go along with any of the things he's proposing. The mayor of New York has not so much power over taxing. And that is one, which concerned a lot of the wealthy people who live in New York. They're terrified that they're going to get hit with a billionaire's tax. And two, that it's also something that's very unrealistic for him to be able to pull off.

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Now, talking of the police, Anthony, whom you mentioned, there is a very big issue in New York policing. And Justin, you've said in the past, I don't disagree with you. Among the stupidest things that Democrats could ever say was when they were campaigning to defund the police. And that turned off a lot of voters. Well, Mamdani is on that list. He had said way back in about 2020 or something, I think around about the time of the George Floyd protest that the police should be defunded. He said that the New York police were racist and anti queer. He was very, very critical of them. And that has come up, of course, during the campaign. So he has now properly apologized. He's gone round to various police stations and done so. He's done it on television, said that he was wrong about that, that he has since he was elected to the state assembly, he's met far more police officers. He's sorry he ever said that. And he no longer has those views. Is that enough?

[Host (Justin Webb)]

Yeah. I think it is, actually. And I think he has done what in a way Kamala Harris never quite managed to do, which is to stand up and address the things that they regret saying in the past and say openly. I regret saying this. I no longer believe it. But I think he has that kind of Trump inability just to move on. And I'm not suggesting that he's moving on in quite the way that Donald Trump does. But fundamentally, I think in the modern era, you are able, if you can convince people that in your guts you're getting things right, you're able to move on. And it seems to me that Mandani does have at least a chance of doing it.

[Anthony (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Yeah. And another area where he's had to try to explain past statements and try to move on and done so fairly effectively. If you look at the the polls now is on Israel and the Gaza war, on his past statements criticizing Israel, calling what Israel is doing a genocide. He has been able to thread that needle a bit, too. Coming up, as one of these politicians coming out of kind of the Palestinian movement and with his background as a Muslim, he was born in Uganda. His parents were influential figures. But it is interesting to see how he's managed to try to explain those positions as well.

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

It's interesting, actually, that Mamdani's polling quite well among Jewish voters, particularly younger ones. But this is an issue, and it's one that was brought up in the debate last night by the Republican candidate, Curtis Sliwa.

[Curtis Sliwa]

Let me speak on behalf of my two sons. When they've heard some of the statements you've made, like in support of global jihad, and I hear some people out there saying the Jews, their time is do, which means the same thing. They're frightened. They're scared. They view you as the arsonist who fanned the flames of anti Semitism. They cannot suddenly accept the fact that you're coming in like a firefighter and you're going to put out these flames. You've got a lot of explaining to do, a lot of apologizing to do. My sons are afraid. Their family, their friends, many of them, the Jewish community, are concerned if you become mayor because they don't think when anti Semitism rears its ugly head, which it's now doing more than ever before, that you will have the ability to come in and put out those flames of hate. Okay.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think there is room for disagreement on many positions and many policies. But I also want to correct the record. I have never, not once, spoken in support of global jihad. That is not Something that I have said and that continues to be ascribed to me. And frankly, I think much of it has to do with the fact that I am the first Muslim candidate to be on the precipice of winning this election. Now, I. All the same, Curtis, I do still want to be the mayor that will keep your sons safe, that will keep every single New Yorker safe. And it is my job to. To not only deliver on that commitment, but also to ensure that New Yorkers feel it every single day that they live in the city. Okay, candidates.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

Brian Zay, I mean, he answers it quite forcefully there, but it is true to say, isn't it, he got into some difficulties. He was on a podcast and he was asked about the phrase globalize the intifada. And he wouldn't condemn it as a phrase. And I think he said the word intifada can mean struggle. But obviously, to a lot of Jews, the intifada is the uprising in Israel and the west bank, which has led to the killing of civilians. And that caused him. I think it's probably right to say that caused him the most difficulty of any of the statements he's made about Israel and the Palestinians.

[Anthony (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Yeah, he's also made statements questioning Israel's right to exist. He said, for any state, I'm not going to recognize its right to be a state with a hierarchy of citizenship on the basis of religion, race, et cetera. My critiques of Israel critiques that I would hold for any other state violating any one of those other international laws. So essentially, he's saying Israel as it's constituted now, as the way it operates, he does not recognize that kind of a state to operate that way.

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Now, we've all said a couple of times during the course of this episode that we've been comparing Mamdani to Trump. Well, Donald Trump himself seems absolutely fascinated by him. He talks about him a lot, but not in flattering terms. He writes him off as a communist and says he'll destroy New York City and threatens that he will do as much as he can to withdraw federal funds from the city to try and stymie Mamdami's agenda. And the result is that Mamdani's opponents are saying, don't take the chance of voting for this guy, because if he becomes the mayor, you're going to have the full force of the US President and the federal government attacking your city. Why would you want to put somebody like that in office? And Donald Trump does frequently refer to him as a communist. And here he is just a few.

[Donald Trump]

Days ago I looked at the polls and looks like we're going to have a Communist as the mayor of New York. It'll be very interesting, but here's the good news. He's got to go through the White House. Every. Everything goes through the White House. At least this White House it does. And we'll have to see what happens. But I don't know that I want to get involved. It's really a question of would I rather have a Democrat or a Communist? And I would rather have a Democrat than a Communist.

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Will you speak to Mamdani if he wins?

[Donald Trump]

Yeah, I'll speak to him.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

I think they'll get on fine, actually. I think they've both got, as we've been saying, they've both got a populist appeal. They're both very good communicators, to the enormous annoyance of their opponents. In the end, they'll probably end up just living with each other, won't they?

[Anthony (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Yeah, that'll be an interesting dynamic to watch. Obviously, Trump has a lot of influence, a lot of ways he can punish New York City. Already punishing New York City by suspending some of these big projects. A tunnel from New Jersey to Manhattan has been put on hold during the shutdown. There's funding that he could cut off that would also really punish New York State and New York City if he wants to play hardball.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

Let's listen to what they said at the debate, because it came up. It's such an important issue, isn't it? And it came up there, and they had a variety of answers.

[Andrew Cuomo]

He has said he'll take over New York if Mondami wins, and he will, because he has no respect for him. He thinks he's a kid and he's gonna knock him on his tuchus.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Look, Donald Trump ran on three promises. He ran on creating the single largest deportation force in American history. He ran on going after his political enemies, and he ran on lowering the cost of living. If he wants to talk to me about the third piece of that agenda, I will always be ready and willing. But if he wants to talk about how to pursue the first and second piece of that agenda at the expense of New Yorkers, I will fight him every single step of the way.

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Right.

[Anthony (BBC Washington Bureau)]

And Mamdani is the kind of candidate, the kind of politician that a lot of Democrats say they want. They want someone who is younger, someone who is left wing, who proudly espouses progressive ideas. He does that. Who's willing to mix it up with his opponents and throw elbows. I mean, we heard from all of these clips, he is more than able to stick up for himself in a debate. Now, this doesn't necessarily mean he's gonna be successful as mayor, but this does mean he might have a chance to really rocket out of this and become bigger than just the mayor of New York. And the fact that he's running against Andrew Cuomo, who is the face of the Democratic old guard, the son of a governor, someone whose family name has been around New York politics for decades, a half century practically, this really gives him the opportunity to paint that contrast even more.

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Justin, probably important to point out at this point that although he might be a model for the kind of person the Democrats might want to take into being their presidential candidate in 2028 or beyond, it cannot be him. Zoram Mamdami was born in Uganda, and although he is now a naturalized citizen, I think he. He cannot run for president because he was not born in the United States.

[Anthony (BBC Washington Bureau)]

States.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

Okay, let us talk now to Eric Latch, who is a staff writer at the New Yorker. He's been following Mamdani on the campaign trail, but not just on the campaign trail. He's actually spent a lot of time with him, including having dinner at his apartment in Queens. So, Eric, you are exactly the right person to talk to. What is it about him that has enabled him to get to where he is? And I don't. I'm not interested at the moment in policy. I'm interested in his abilities, his political abilities, and his character.

[Eric Latch]

I think two words come to mind immediately. One is confidence and the other is discipline. You know, he hit on this from the moment he jumped into the mayor's race. At this point more than a year ago, he had a clear and detailed plan for how he was going to run for mayor that he stuck to all the way through. And, you know, I say this in my article for as successful and sort of vivid and winning a communicator as he is in public, on his Internet presence and his social media videos, in person, he is a shrewd and careful. He is controlled, and he says what he wants to say. He doesn't get knocked off message very easily.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

That's really interesting, you use that word careful, because we've just used all sorts of adjectives to describe him in the discussion that we've just been having among ourselves. But careful wasn't one of them. But of course, in a politician, authenticity is important and all the rest of it. But actually, the message discipline that you've stressed is really interesting.

[Eric Latch]

They're not just slogans. Freezing the rent and making buses free and universal childcare and raising taxes on the wealthy. They are a kind of rhetorical playbook that he turns to again and again and again.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

Yeah. And you hear him when he's debating against Cuomo. You're exactly right. He comes back, doesn't he, to those messages. But he can also deliver a jab. Do you, if you look at a specific area, like for instance, the police, which is somewhere where he does have some power. We were saying earlier in our discussion, he has basically changed his mind. He used to say what a lot of people on the progressive left said, didn't he, about the police, defund the police, et cetera, et cetera. He doesn't say that now. We were just wondering whether that is convincing. I mean, has it been? In other words, is he bringing with him people who are not necessarily sold on all the progressive left stuff but still trust him?

[Eric Latch]

Yeah, look, you know, I say in my article, like, I think he's had a hard time describing what changed his position here, except for the fact that he's now running for mayor when it comes to managing the police department. I think it's, you know, it's going to be a very live and complicated series of questions that he faces if he does take office in January. Not just the general rhetorical way that he talks about the police, but very, very specific questions that are going to come up inevitably as mayor about how the police in New York treat protesters, about how they treat homeless people, about how they, you know, and on down the list of just kind of like the day to day decision making and problems that a mayor faces. So that I think is definitely going to be, you know, a kind of front and center issue for him if he does become mayor. That said, you know, he just yesterday at the debate last night, he confirmed some reporting that had come out that said that he, you know, plans to ask current police Commissioner Jessica Tisch no one's idea of a democratic socialist to stay on as police commissioner as a kind of show of sort of embracing, you know, not just the ideological partners that have helped them get to this point.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

Yeah. And it is fair to say, isn't it, that the central message, the affordability message is something that has just taken off. And anyone who dismisses that as being hot air or kind of a political smoke and mirrors isn't getting a really central part of his appeal.

[Eric Latch]

I mean, I think all you have to do is look at the way that Andrew Cuomo, the former governor who lost to Mohamdani in the primary, and then is now challenging him as an independent in the general has. I mean, in the primary, Cuomo made a bet that the election was going to be about public safety, and Mamdani made a bet that it was going to be about affordability, and Mamdani won that contest. And since then, Cuomo has been a lot more focused and a lot more acknowledging that the issue of affordability is perhaps the top, top issue for many, many voters in New York City.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

And on that, can he deliver.

[Eric Latch]

You know, his central policy proposal in the campaign was to freeze rents on, you know, pardon my. I'm gonna put my wonk hat on for just like a half second here.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

But it's like, wear it with pride.

[Eric Latch]

You know, to freeze rents on housing units, apartments in New York City that fall under some pretty unique rent control laws that New York has on the books here. But those only represent about a quarter of the city's total housing stock. So it's about a million housing units in the city. About 2 million people live in those apartments. So for the 3/4 of the rest of the city, that freeze the rent proposal doesn't apply directly. And the broader question of how to fix or address the runaway unaffordability in the city, even Mamdani acknowledges, is not the rent freeze, is not that. You know, that's not getting your arms around the whole problem. How that then spills out into the broader debate about what to do about housing costs and rent costs and the high cost of building in New York and just how jam packed New York already is with building and with people is just. Yeah, that's just. It's like the first chapter of what's Gonna Be Prob. Probably a very long book.

[Sarah (BBC Washington Bureau)]

Yeah.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

We were having a conversation earlier about how he gets on with Trump, which obviously is hugely important. I just wonder about what we should make of his relationship with the rest of the Democratic Party.

[Eric Latch]

You know, so far, it's been a very uneasy getting to know you, period. He has won over a few Democrats who sort of greeted him skeptically. I mean, he certainly represents, you know, an insurgent faction in the Democratic Party that's been in conflict with mainstream and establishment leaders and interests within the party. He's had a little success this summer. I mean, Governor Kathy Hochul in New York has endorsed him. They've spent the summer sort of speaking warmly about each other in various ways. They seem to sort of see eye to eye on the idea of making childcare for young kids, you know, a reality in the city. But some of the Other. I mean, it just so happens that the leader of the Democrats in the Senate, Chuck Schumer, and the leader of the Democrats in the House of Representatives, Hakeem Jeffries, are both New Yorkers, both from Brooklyn, and both have yet to endorse Mamdani. And really there's been very little movement on that in the past few weeks. I mean, there's just, there's no indication that sort of either side is warming to the other here.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

That's quite pointed, isn't it, given what you point out, that they're both New Yorkers. I mean, what are they in the end? Are they going to have to just do it, or can they just hold out and not do it? I wonder what the thinking is there.

[Eric Latch]

There's some layers to this. But you know, what's been reported, what people talk about, what seems to sort of be sort of the widely acknowledged as sort of the important factors in this dynamic, I mean, has to do with both Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries, particularly Schumer, are longstanding supporters of Israel. And the Democratic Party donor base is full of longtime supporters of Israel and Mamdani's criticisms of the Israeli government, the Israeli government's war in Gaza. This is an impasse. This is a political point that they. That seems like these different players don't see a way to resolve. And it also has to do with both Schumer and Jeffries are looking at midterm maps for 2026. And this is a national issue, but it also has to do with New York City's backyard, because New York City has these suburbs to the north in upstate New York and then to the east on Long island, where for the past several cycles there's been these very hotly contested House races that have really kind of determined the balance of power in the House of Representatives. And those districts are full of the stereotype is that these suburbs in eastern Long island are full of cops and firefighters and sanitation workers that sort of come into the city and out every day and just are not philosophically disposed to embrace a kind of a democratic socialist pitch or a kind of idea of the city is a place where social spending needs to increase or that kind of needs to just take a pivot to the left. And how Mamdani's politics get talked about in those suburbs and then by extension in districts across the country, I think is something that's also on a lot of Democratic leaders minds.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

But that then brings us finally back to him, because you've seen him campaigning, you've seen him sort of one to one with voters on the street. Do you think he's got what it takes to bring in a much wider group of people than just those who would obviously support him?

[Eric Latch]

I'll answer the question, but I think the deeper one embedded there is an old one which is just kind of like how does the New York City mayor matter in terms of national or even international politics? It's a big job with a high profile, comes with a lot of power, but complicated power, as we've discussed, sort of hemmed in various ways. Again, the velocity of this I think is something that we should all kind of just pause and take a breath. About six months ago, most people in New York did not know who this guy was. So this is all sort of very, very new. And the question of can he consolidate his power and then use that as a platform to sort of say things that resonate beyond the city? I mean, I think the potential is there. Certainly, you know, certainly mayors since time immemorial have had bigger aspirations and have hoped to make an impact. I think discounting it, you know, it would be premature.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

Final, final thought. He is going to win, isn't he? I mean, is there any chance at all that he doesn't?

[Eric Latch]

If he doesn't, you know, I'm going to. It's like I've just written a long article that sort of is premised on that. So I'm in some trouble.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

Okay, you're sticking with it. Eric, really nice to talk to you. Thank you so much for spending the time with us. Eric Latch from the New Yorker.

[Eric Latch]

Thank you for having me on.

[Host (Justin Webb)]

Bye. Okay, that's it for today. And as I was saying right at the start, this entire episode has been suggested by you, demanded by you. And we want more of your suggestions, more of your demands for what you want to hear more of about. So the ways to get in touch are the normal ones. 443-301-2390, is the WhatsApp. Amercastbc.co.uk is the email. The hashtag is americast. The Discord link is in the description. See you all later. Bye bye.