← Americast
Americast
MAGA’s “righteous fury” at Charlie Kirk’s memorial
00:32:50
And Trump’s response to Erika Kirk forgiving her husband’s killer.
Loading summary
Transcript61 lines
- [00:00]
Justin
This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
- [00:06]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Saks Off 5th is your secret to fashion's most wanted deals at up to 70% off on the hunt for designer steals that'll turn heads and leave a trail of envy. Uncover Gucci, Valentino, Versace, Stuart Weitzman and more. With new arrivals dropping weekly at prices too good to stay confidential, Luxe layers statement boots and tailored essentials From Saks Off 5th will put your wardrobe on the most wanted list. Head to saks offfit.com or a Saks Off 5th store near you for a style lineup you won't want to miss.
- [00:36]
So do you want to look and feel your best this summer? Well, don't just think skin deep, think cell deep with Prolon. Prolon is a plant based nutrition program featuring soups, snacks and beverages that nourish the body while keeping it in a fasting state which triggers cellular rejuvenation and renewal. Target fat loss, support lean muscle and reset your metabolism so you look and feel your best all summer long. Prolon is science backed nutrition that can help change your relationship with food in just five days. Get 15% off plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe now@prolonlife.com iheart that's prolonlife.com iheart.
- [01:19]
Justin
We look back today on what was unquestionably a huge event in the United States. It was Sunday's memorial service for Charlie Kirk. A the memorial service, yes. A chance to say goodbye, yes. But goodness. For so many Americans, including those closely aligned with the White House, it felt like something else. A chance for a revival.
- [01:43]
Pete Heth
The day that Charlie died, the angels wept. But those tears had been turned into fire in our hearts. And that fire burns with a righteous fury that our enemies cannot comprehend or understand. You thought you could kill Charlie Kirk. You have made him immortal. You have immortalized Charlie Kirk and now millions will carry on his legacy.
- [02:18]
Justin
So a question. Has Charlie Kirk's assassination given a divine cause, as it were, for the right to unite around to attack the Left?
- [02:26]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Welcome to AmericasT AmericasT AMERICAST FROM BBC.
- [02:33]
Pete Heth
NEWS, when Donald Trump calls, they say, yes sir. Right away, sir. Happy to lick your boot, sir.
- [02:39]
Anthony
We are the sickest country in the world.
- [02:41]
Erica Kirk
Oh dear. Are you worried that billionaires are going to go hungry?
- [02:45]
Anthony
Of course the President supports peaceful protests. What a stupid question.
- [02:48]
Donald Trump
Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein?
- [02:57]
Justin
Hello, it's Justin in the worldwide headquarters of AmericasT in London, England.
- [03:01]
Anthony
And it's Anthony back here in Washington.
- [03:03]
Justin
D.C. and Anthony, let's kick off with a just a word or two about what actually happened on Sunday, because, my goodness, this was a major occasion. We knew it would be, didn't we? I mean, the fact that Donald Trump was going and all manner of people were going, but it lived up to its billing in the sense of the hugeness of the event and in a sense, I suppose, also of the momentum of it. And we'll get to that in a second. But let's start with the hugeness just. Just the. The memorial thing itself. The memorial service itself, held in this absolutely giant. Giant stadium.
- [03:37]
Anthony
Yeah, an American football stadium. About a hundred thousand people packed that stadium. People apparently camped out overnight, tens of thousands of them, to get good seats here. And then there were, according to reports, millions more watching online. It was an event, an event that unified, electrified this young conservative movement, that Turning Points was focused on trying to. Trying to organize and turn out in elections. And so it had a feeling, not just of being a memorial service, but of being a political rally as well, as you mentioned, with all of these prominent politicians showing up and people queuing.
- [04:17]
Justin
Overnight to get in. This was a big. A kind of seismic event. And they wanted it to be a seismic event. And there was huge security, wasn't there? And, and, you know, the. The bulletproof glass for the speakers and all the rest of it. This was a giant, giant event and an event that obviously brought together. This is what really. And we'll get to what his widow Erica said in a second. But just right across the kind of the political. Right. You needed to be there.
- [04:54]
Anthony
Yeah. You had Donald Trump, of course, you had J.D. vance, the vice president. You had Marco Rubio, Secretary of State Stephen Miller, who we've talked about before, who is a senior advisor to Donald Trump, Susie Wiles, who is the chief of staff of the White House, RFK Jr. Even Elon Musk was there. Elon Musk was sitting next to Donald Trump. So, I mean, if this is a unifying kind of event, we have Elon Musk and Trump having some sort of rapprochement here amongst the crowd of 100,000, as you mentioned, it was obviously a huge event for the conservative movement, a huge event also, I think, for evangelical Christianity in this country because of the emphasis that Kirk had during his life on. On reawakening Christian religiosity in public life, have the feel of, you know, one of those TED House revivals, Billy Graham back in the 40s and 50s, or even the Great Awakenings in the American. American history in the 19th century. It had a feeling of religious fervor. Celebrating Kirk, but also elevating him as a kind of a martyr for the cause.
- [06:07]
Justin
Yeah. And that brings us very neatly to the tone of the whole thing being set by his widow, by Erica. And she's there on her own on the stage, as you say, 100,000 people there, millions more watching on television, the president there, everyone there from the right. She spoke, I thought, not only movingly, but firmly about what she believed. And in a sense, this was the moment that you could say was the centerpiece. Let's listen.
- [06:43]
Erica Kirk
My husband, Charlie, he wanted to save young men, just like the one who took his life. That young man, that young man on the cross, our savior, said, father, forgive them, for they not know what they do. That man, that young man, I forgive him.
- [07:49]
Justin
And Anthony, at that moment, I was looking around at the audience, and there were people genuinely in tears. It was enormously moving, wasn't it? Whatever you think. We'll get to what Donald Trump said, and we'll get to the politics of it in a second. But just as the sight of her and the knowledge that she has these two young children and that he was only 31 and the weight of it all on her shoulders, I thought was enormously affecting.
- [08:22]
Erica Kirk
I forgive him because it was what Christ did and is what Charlie would do. The answer to hate is not hate. The answer we know from the gospel is love and always love. Love for our enemies and love for those who persecute us.
- [08:48]
Anthony
Yeah. You know, there's a saying, you know, live your faith and to stand up there that moment and to forgive the killer of her husband. I mean, obviously, it was an incredibly, incredibly powerful moment. And it was. She was a kind of a living example of what her religion teaches her. And I think that was obviously very moving for the crowd. And I think it, you know, is an interesting, a unique message to send to the American public, one of forgiveness, forgiveness of your enemies, forgetting this, even of people who did grievous harm to those you love. It's not the kind of message you hear very often in American politics, and not even the kind of message you heard, as you mentioned, within just a few minutes after she finished speaking.
- [09:35]
Justin
Yeah. Let's listen to what Donald Trump said, because, I mean, he was open about it, wasn't he? Here we go.
- [09:39]
Donald Trump
He did not hate his opponents. He wanted the best for them. That's where I disagreed with Charlie. I hate my opponent, and I don't want the best for them. I'm sorry. I am sorry, Erica. But now Erica can talk to me and the Whole group. And maybe they can convince me that that's not right. But I can't stand my opponent. Charlie's angry. Looking down, he's angry at me.
- [10:08]
Justin
Now, what do you make of that, Anthony?
- [10:12]
Anthony
I mean, on one hand, he's doing it kind of as a joke, right? I mean, the crowd's laughing and he's kind of chuckling, saying that, like, ah, you know, you may forgive them, but I'm not going to. On the other hand, when you take it in the context of everything Donald Trump has, Has been doing over the past nine months, everything in particular that he has said over the past few days, talking about prosecuting his enemies, firing a prosecutor in Virginia for not bringing charges against New York Attorney General Leticia James, replacing that person with one of his defense attorneys. I mean, it, it, it takes a different kind of a, A tone, different kind of a feeling when we view that in context. He may be chuckling, but the reality of his actions are not one of forgiveness. It's the kind of retribution. I am your retribution. That he said on the campaign trail last year that I think he firmly believes, even if he thinks Charlie Kirk up in heaven is not agreeing with them and not approving of what he's saying.
- [11:09]
Justin
The thing that went through my mind listening to it, and in a sense, this is the only thing on which I'm better qualified to talk about this than you, because I am an outsider to it. But bear with me for a second. I think a lot of people who don't live in the United States tend to think of American evangelism as being something that's sort of, if not essentially fake, then often faked. And they think of all the crazy preachers. They think of the people who, you know, who've been stealing the money from the congregation or of, or, or fulminate about homosexuality. And then, it turns out, actually have been kind of experimenting with it themselves. And, you know, I mean, you can. There are some famous names there and there are some less famous names there, and there's this sort of sense outside the United States that doesn't always take this form of religion seriously. And the thing I learned when I was based among you, Anthony, for, For a decade or so, was that actually a lot of evangelical Christians genuinely believe the things they say and actually are motivated in their lives to live the way that they say they want to live. It's not all fakery. And I think from my time, you know, George W. Bush and the outreach to combat HIV in Africa during his time there, which was very Much kind of something that evangelical Christians were behind, felt they should be behind, and actually had a real kind of sense of purpose. And I don't actually think would have happened to the extent that it happened, given, generally speaking on the right, people aren't very keen to spend money on aid, et cetera, et cetera. I don't think it would have happened absent that kind of religious drive. And I'm right, aren't I? There is a sense that you're ill advised if you don't take this stuff seriously.
- [12:56]
Anthony
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think many Americans have very deeply held religious beliefs and they try to, like I said, live according to their faith. And not only that, but the America's very founding was from religious movements, from, from people who, who came to this new world to, to be able to practice their religion. And religious freedom was fundamental to America in its early years. And, and as I mentioned, the 19th century, there were these, these vast evangelical movements, Jonathan Edwards and the great revivals of the 19th century that we are all sinners in the hands of angry gods. And he stood up there and he gave his sermons before crowds all over the country and had an incredibly loyal following. And then the movements, the evangelical movements of the 40s and 50s and even some of the ones that people think are fake, like Jerry Falwell and the televangelist and the big church religions that predominate in the, in the south, they, the people who go to them firmly believe in them. It motivates them, it motivates in many ways for people to lead better lives. It's not, it's not fake, and it's not kind of a gimmick, even if you can pick out certain instances where there are charlatans in the midst. But with any large organization, you can have that.
- [14:24]
Justin
And I mean, it's also striking, isn't it, that on quite a few occasions you think of the evangelicals basically supporting Donald Trump and, and making whatever mental accommodations they have to make in order to do that. Because Donald Trump's relationship with these people, as we sort of have just heard, is. It's an uneasy one.
- [14:45]
Anthony
It's, it's discordant. Definitely. Donald Trump is not one of them. And I think they all realize that he is, he is not one of them. And when I go to Christian conservative conventions here in the United States, one of the things I hear is that the, the Lord works in mysterious ways. He is a ve, in their view, a vessel that is delivering evangelical Christian conservative policies in federal government for the most part. And While they haven't gotten everything they want on abortion, they had Roe v. Wade struck down, which a lot of Republican politicians promised, and Donald Trump delivered. So I think it has been a sometimes uneasy kind of a coalition that Trump has formed with evangelicals, but, but it is one that has proven durable. It's not just that they love Donald Trump, but they don't like the alternative. And at least so far, they've been satisfied with what he's delivered. And Donald Trump has surrounded himself with some people who are very much of the evangelical mold. And some, like, for instance, Stephen Miller is one of his senior advisors who doesn't just talk about this conflict in, in religious terms, but also in kind of cultural civilizational conflicts. His entire speech, he talks about how this is a battle of civilizations, a battle to preserve the west and the enemies of the, of conservatism don't understand the dragon that they have awoken. I mean, it was a very, you know, fire brandy kind of speech he gave.
- [16:20]
Justin
Yeah, but on that, then, Anthony, to what extent is he right? I mean, have they awoken a dragon? Is it, does this unite the right in a way that's politically significant, you think or not?
- [16:32]
Anthony
You know, that, that. I think time will, time will tell. This is the moment. But we had moments before they've ultimately passed there. There's still, if you look at polls, Donald Trump is, is not that popular right now. He's in the kind of the flashy red zone where in normal political circumstances, the, the opposition party will, will do better and the incumbents will lose next year's midterm election. So this, the question is, is this sustainable? Is this a moment where young conservatives get a sense of motivation and organization that they carry forward, or is this kind of a spasm that ultimately fades? And the reality is we are still 14 months away from the midterm elections. There's still so much that can happen. And when push comes to shove, as I've said before on this, on this program, Americans vote their pocketbooks. Americans vote the economy. Americans generally don't vote cultural issues unless times are good. So it might help conservatives, it might give, it might lead to some new young conservatives becoming more engaged. But I would, I would be reluctant to say this is definitely a turning point, so to speak.
- [17:45]
Justin
Yeah, I, I agree with you. I mean, there was that handshake wasn't there, between Elon Musk and Donald Trump in the course of it, which a lot of people were excited by or at least interested in, and there was a broad range of people There. But in a way, the more they spoke, I mean, I'm thinking right across the board, the more they spoke, the more you thought actually they, they're kind of, they are preaching and in some cases almost literally preaching to the already converted. And if you think at all about elections reaching out to the other side, I'm not sure that any of this was that. I suppose the slight issue is whether they enthuse now, particularly young people with, you know, and you hear kind of anecdotally, people are talking about a huge rise in church attendance, at least over this, the course of this weekend, and particularly among young people, whether that could actually then translate into a turnout in 2026, a turnout in the midterms. That kind of bucks what we would expect to be the trend, which is that the energized Democrats, because they're all college professors and they've got time on their hands, et cetera, go and vote, and that everyone else doesn't because they haven't got the time and they're not that enthusiastic about it anyway. I mean, if, if it turns that on its head or at least slightly nibbles away at that, then that could matter, couldn't it?
- [19:16]
Anthony
Right. I think you put your finger on it. Usually midterm elections, non presidential elections, which don't get the same level of attention nationally that, that presidential elections do, they do hinge on motivation, turning out your base, getting people willing to show up. And so if this does lead to more young conservatives showing up at the polls in a way that they don't normally do during midterm elections and only really did when Donald Trump was on the ticket, then, then, yes, that could, that could help make it, make it a much more competitive midterm election and help Republicans kind of stand against the, the tides of history here and precedent where out of, out of power parties do really well in midterm elections, particularly in the second term of a president. So this, watching last night, it felt like there was energy and enthusiasm. And I think in particular, seeing the speakers stand up there, it felt like they were all trying to tap into that and trying to generate that kind of motivation. They know what the possibility is for that. But whether it becomes a reality or not, I think the one takeaway I have from all of this is that Erica Kirk is a legitimate political force. And even if, even if, you know, whatever she does with turning points, you know, she lives in Arizona, which is key battleground state, I think she, I think Republicans are going to be clamoring for her to at Some point stand for elective office, because Arizona is a key state and I think she would have a really good shot at winning there.
- [20:47]
Justin
Yeah. And she's got to put her life back together. And you think that, you know, giving yourself a sense of purpose when something appalling has happened to you like this, and you've got the young children and you want to find something and you are anyway, motivated, as she made it plain, she was hugely motivated by religious faith. You feel that in her there could be something very, very forceful. I so agree. And, you know, who knows whether that leads to political office in the longer term or whatever it leads to, or just actually the revivification of the Turning Point organization. Because we should. You know, we haven't really talked much about Charlie Kirk himself because we have done in previous episodes, but Charlie Kirk's big contribution to Donald Trump, and we've heard people say he actually got him elected because he went out to colleges, he persuaded young people, and she, if she gets the organization going and, and indeed does that herself to an extent, then that itself could make a difference.
- [21:46]
Anthony
Yeah, there's obviously a lot of energy right now, a lot of enthusiasm. And Turning Point, it was a key factor in last year's presidential election. I mean, they were responsible pretty much for the ground game of Donald Trump's campaign. They were the ones getting people out. I mean, it was all kind of offloaded onto Charlie Kirk and, and his team shoulder. So it was. There's, there's the potential for this, this organization to be. Been even bigger for style because of all the attention that has been been put on it and all of the, the funds, I'm sure, are going to be coming its way. I mean, I think if you ask most, most Americans who Charlie Kirk or Turning Points was two weeks ago, they probably would shrug and say they, they had no idea. But now I think it has entered kind of the, the larger American consciousness.
- [22:34]
Justin
I mean, it goes without saying a lot of this is nakedly political. I mean, and nobody was trying to hide it particularly, were there anything. But I wonder if it's nakedly political in the sense that they think that this is now an instrument. Because you have Pete Heth with this extraordinary video that he's put out of kind of military planes rushing around with all the religious imagery associated with war. Because he is now the Secretary of State for War, isn't he? And obviously we heard as well from Stephen Miller.
- [23:05]
Pete Heth
They cannot imagine what they have awakened. They cannot imagine, conceive of the army that they have arisen in all of us, because we stand for what is good, what is virtuous, what is noble. And to those trying to incite violence against us, those trying to foment hatred against us. What do you have?
- [23:28]
Justin
But I just wonder the extent to which they think now that this is going to not only kind of intimidate their opponents and make the left think, oh, goodness, have we got the equivalent of this revival where we are? Because I think the answer to that at the moment is pretty certainly no. But are they also much more aggressively going to use it to go after people potentially with the law, but potentially in other ways as well, in a way that they haven't until now?
- [23:57]
Anthony
Right. And Donald Trump himself has, you know, as I mentioned, has, has said that they're going to be using the law and they should be using prosecutions more to target political enemies and not just the ones he, he ticked off in that truth social post. But, but also I think you've heard from Stephen Miller as well, talking about investigating what they characterize as the radical left of what they, they see as funding groups that support or create an atmosphere for violence. And so if this leads to a crackdown on political organizations of the left, even ones that don't have direct ties to, to anything one would consider violent, that I think that is going to be a very key takeaway from this, a very key kind of a change. Because oftentimes they say, well, does a moment like this Change everything? Did 9, 11 change everything? Will this killing of Charlie Kirk change everything? And it's not so much the moment that changes everything, it's how people react to it and what they do next and what they use as justification for that next September 11th changed everything, in part because the Bush administration uses justification to start 15 years of war in Afghanistan and Iraq. If the Charlie Clark assassination justifies a crackdown on free speech, a crackdown on liberal groups, then yes, I mean, it could change everything. It could be what we look back on as a pivotal moment in American history, and we're already seeing some signs of it, I think. Justin, don't you agree?
- [25:32]
Justin
Yeah. I mean, there's no question at all that many people on the left think it's already begun. And it began, they would say, actually some time ago, began almost as soon as Donald Trump came into office, but has gathered pace with the pressure on law firms, but also crucially and most obviously, I suppose, with the pressure on big media organizations. And we've seen a couple of them cave, which is the word that they would use on the left. Pay up rather than going into battle with Donald Trump. And most recently, of course, the whole business about Jimmy Kimmel, the late night comedian dropped by abc. And interestingly, we should listen to him, actually. Interestingly, there are some figures on the right who wouldn't necessarily argue with that decision by abc, but are very nervous when the chairman of the fcc, Brendan Carr, sort of suggests that he's going to go after other broadcast stations. They're very nervous about that because they don't exactly, as you were saying, they don't really see themselves as being the sort of people who in the past would have done that. And principal among them because he's a famous guy, is Senator Ted Cruz. Let's listen to what he said.
- [26:42]
Ted Cruz
And I got to say, that's right out of Goodfellows, that's right out of a mafioso coming into a bar going, nice bar you have here. It'd be a shame if something happened to it. So again, I like Brendan Carr, but we should not be in this business. We should denounce it. It's fine to say what Jimmy Kimmel said was deplorable, it was disgraceful and he should be off air, but we shouldn't be threatening government power to force him off air. That's a real mistake.
- [27:11]
Anthony
Okay, so that's Ted Cruz talking on his podcast about using government power to pressure big media companies and using government power through the Federal Communications Commission, the fcc, whose chairman is Brendan Carr. And Carr has been making very public statements about how he might consider revoking licenses, he might consider using the power of federal government. He's admitted to reaching out to affiliate networks, affiliate stations for the ABC television network to get them to pressure ABC to take Kimmel off the air. So it's, it is a, I think the possibility of a certain amount of conservative overreach here. Trump overreach here. If he starts to generate enemies from people like, or at least criticism from people like Ted Cruz and Senator Thom Tillis and Rand Paul. It is notable to see some cracks forming on the right. Although Donald Trump on Thursday night on Air Force One, he leaned into using the FCC and government regulation to pressure big media companies, which he says are tilted against him. Here's what he had to say.
- [28:17]
Donald Trump
I'll give you an example. I read someplace that the networks were 97% against me. I get 97% negative and yet I won't in easily. It won all seven swank states, popular won everything. And if they're 97% against, they give me only bad publicity or press. I mean, they're getting a license. I would think maybe their license should be taken away. It will be up to Brendan Carr. I think Brendan Carr is outstanding. He's a patriot, he loves our country, and he's a tough guy.
- [28:52]
Justin
To which I think many people on the right would say, well, you may well be right, actually. And the networks have been biased against Donald Trump, and they're certainly very critical of him, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the next step is to be. We've got this phrase now, haven't we, Anthony woke. Right. Kind of this mirror image of what people have accused the left of doing for ages, which is canceling people effectively kind of suppressing views that they don't approve of. This is now happening on the right and, and in a sense, more worryingly, the right, with all the instruments of government on their side, too. This McCarthyism allegation that is made about Trump, that would definitely gain ground, wouldn't it, including from people on the right, if they did start to go down that route.
- [29:38]
Anthony
Right. And I think what Ted Cruz and others have expressed is the concern that, well, if a Democrat comes into power, will the Democrat use the FCC to crack down on, say, Fox News or some of these other conservative media outlets? Will they use the power of government to pressure corporations to. To punish conservative causes? And, and there is the. There's the danger that it will be become a tit for tat kind of thing where whoever's in power, with all of the new powers that Donald Trump has, has kind of brought into himself and, and acquired over the past nine months. Gosh, it is only nine months. All you're doing is handing a new, powerful weapon to your political opponents. Because despite what Donald Trump may think or hope, the American pendulum, political pendulum, swings both ways. And it is naive to think that at some point the left won't be back and Democrats won't be back in office.
- [30:38]
Justin
Just a final thought about the memorial service itself. I mean, one of the things that Erica Kirk said was that we don't riot, didn't she? So she's drawing attention to what many on the right say was and should not have been the reaction to the killing of George Floyd, to the murder of George Floyd all those years ago when there were riots, there were disturbances, at the very least in quite a few US Cities, and terrible damage done to businesses, et cetera, et cetera. And this kind of sense, we don't do that. We do things differently. And there's just seems to me to be a tension between the. We don't riot line and the we're coming after you line, which didn't necessarily come from the same people in the memorial service, but they're kind of, they're trying to have it both ways, aren't they? Right.
- [31:30]
Anthony
And January 6th, I think calling it right is probably a generous way of describing what happened that day. So, yes, obviously both sides can point the finger at each other. And these are tumultuous political times in the United States. And both sides have had moments where violence has taken over and passions have put people in positions where nasty things have happened. If this could be a moment, and what comes from this, is listening to Erica Kirk talk about unity and healing, and if that becomes a message, political message, that gains traction, then this moment could help American politics. It's almost like we saw on Sunday night two different paths back to back in speeches. Two different paths we could go down. One is kind of the second inaugural of Lincoln with malice towards none, kind of a. Kind of a speech. And the other was from Donald Trump, which was a lot more the fight is coming or Stephen Miller. I think we are the storm. The storm is coming. That is definitely two different paths and two different ways that American politics and society could go from here.
- [32:55]
Justin
Anthony, we've missed you while you've been on holiday. We've missed the historical illusions, we've missed all of you. But anyway, you're back and the nation is already slightly calmer, though possibly only slightly. Nice to talk to you. Bye. Bye.
- [33:07]
Anthony
Good to talk to you, too. Have a good one. Bye.
- [33:11]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Ameracast, ameracast from BBC News.
- [33:15]
Justin
Look, thanks for listening all the way to the end of today's AmericasT. You are now officially an AmericasT. It is, of course, a ride, a wild ride, navigating the US News, particularly in the era of Trump. But you have made it. If you have a comment, a question about the things we've talked about or anything at all, actually, get in touch with us. The email is americastbc.co.uk the WhatsApp is 033-01-239480. We answer your questions every single week, actually, on the podcast. So keep them coming. You can join the online community as well on Discord. The link is in the podcast podcast description on your app. We will be back with another podcast very soon. So until then, see you later. Bye.
- [34:12]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
America is changing and so is the world.
- [34:16]
Justin
But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval.
- [34:20]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
It's also a symptom of disruption.
- [34:22]
Justin
That's happening everywhere.
- [34:24]
Anthony
I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. i'm.
- [34:27]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Tristan Redman in London, and this is the Global Story.
- [34:30]
Anthony
Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.
- [34:36]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.