The Americast Awards 2025… on 5 Live!

Summary

Americast Podcast: “The Americast Awards 2025… on 5 Live!”

BBC News — December 15, 2025

Overview

This special episode of Americast swaps its usual political analysis for the inaugural “Americast Awards” — a tongue-in-cheek ceremony recognizing the most disruptive, surprising, and downright bonkers political figures, moments, and memes of the defining year in US politics. The award categories prompt lively debate and sharp analysis from the regular Americast team: Sarah Smith, Justin Webb, Marianna Spring, and host Matt Chorley. Drawing on their deep reporting and on-the-ground experience, the Americasters dissect everything from Elon Musk’s social media antics to the reverberating shock of Charlie Kirk's assassination, blending serious insight with trademark wit.

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Key Discussion Points & Highlights

1. Format & Categories

[02:58] Matt Chorley: Outlines the rules — each panelist pitches a nominee in several categories; Matt selects the winner based on the most persuasive pitch.
Categories include:

• Biggest Disruptor
• Biggest Surprise/Unexpected Moment
• Employee of the Year
• Most Bonkers Moment
• Listeners’ Choice: Most Significant Moment

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2. Biggest Disruptor of the Year

[03:17] Mariana: Nominee: Elon Musk

• Musk’s on-again, off-again relationship with Donald Trump played out on X (Twitter), from best friends to public spats over taxes, tariffs, and even comments about Jeffrey Epstein.
• Musk’s influence on digital discourse and political narratives, coupled with his temporary targeting of UK politics, cements his status as a chaos agent.

“Elon Musk’s ability to kind of stay within Donald Trump’s orbit somehow... and also dictate opinion on matters particularly on X and social media and within the alternative media sphere has continued to be very effective.”
(Mariana, [04:19])

[05:27] Sarah: Nominee: Donald Trump

• Trump’s presidency has redefined and normalized radical governance: mass immigration raids, leveraging the criminal justice system against adversaries, and bending corporate and academic America to his will.
• The scale of his disruption sets a new precedent for power in the White House.

“He is the most disruptive president of the United States ever... taking more power into the White House than any president has ever seen before. He is normalizing a really, really radical agenda in a way that the Democrats don’t know how to respond to.”
(Sarah, [05:41])

[06:51] Justin: Nominee: Gavin Newsom

• The California governor shocked the political establishment via his podcast engaging far-right guests, and successfully changed state law to counter GOP gerrymandering, scoring a rare direct win over Trump.

“He had this incredible victory against Donald Trump... got the law changed temporarily in California... a one in the eye for Donald Trump.”
(Justin, [08:42])

Winner: Sarah’s pick – Donald Trump

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3. Biggest Surprise/Unexpected Moment

[09:33] Justin: The ‘Lost Letter’ in the Oval Office

• On Inauguration night, Trump, prompted by Fox’s Pete Doocy, discovered Biden’s traditional letter in the desk—a scene that perfectly encapsulated the offbeat Trump era.

“Trump says, ‘Oh, Pete, that’s a good thought. Where do they normally keep them? Let’s have a look...’”
(Justin, [10:32])

[11:37] Mariana: Mandami–Trump Bromance

• Mere months after adversarial exchanges, Trump warmly hosted NYC Mayor Mamdani, playfully acknowledging their ideological differences. Social media was ablaze with memes, especially after Trump copied Mamdani’s fashion.

“You thought these people are going to be sort of arch nemeses, and suddenly they’re kind of BFFs. And who does that benefit? Probably Donald Trump.”
(Mariana, [12:30])

[13:18] Sarah: Assassination of Charlie Kirk

• Kirk, a pivotal right-wing influencer, was shot while speaking at a Utah university—sending shockwaves through the political world and fueling a rhetoric shift on political violence.

“It was absolutely shocking—that level of political violence... I think it’s caused a reaction on the right, who can now say it’s the left that drive political violence in America.”
(Sarah, [14:13])

Winner: Justin’s ‘Lost Letter’ story

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4. Employee of the Year

[15:03] Sarah: Melania Trump

• Impeccable in public, Melania commands the one thing that shakes Donald Trump: his own anxiety about her approval. Highlights include her viral Christmas readings and the infamous inauguration hats.

“She has been absolutely immaculate in every appearance... Donald Trump looks subservient. He is the only person... you can see him slightly nervously glancing at.”
(Sarah, [15:03])

[16:59] Mariana: Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

• For relentless loyalty to Trump and executing controversial health policies (e.g., anti-MRNA vaccines), RFK Jr. earns Mariana’s nod as the “predictable” social media leader, even surviving humiliation rituals.

“Of all the people, he’s... not fallen out with Donald Trump... if he was going to give someone a gold star, it might be Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.”
(Mariana, [18:16])

[19:04] Justin: Elbridge Colby

• The undersecretary at the new Trump “Department of War”, Colby is the intellectual force behind the administration’s assertive anti-China posture, representing the new breed of unapologetic American realpolitik.

“He is the kind of intellectual underpinning... for an employee in the Trump administration who is a serious thinker about the world, I’d go for him.”
(Justin, [20:40])

Winner: Justin’s pick – Elbridge Colby

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5. Most Bonkers Moment

[21:06] Mariana: Gaza Riviera AI Video

• Trump’s team released a surreal AI-generated promo showing Gaza as a holiday resort amid ongoing conflict—blatant “rage bait” that shocked, amused, and angered viewers.

“That video... triggered a real conversation... it obviously very much set the tone for the entire social media strategy... rage bait, which is also one of the words of the year.”
(Mariana, [21:06])

[22:11] Sarah: Foreign Gifts to Trump

• Spectacle of ostentatious gifts, notably a golden crown from South Korea that juxtaposed with domestic protests over his “kingly” behavior, and a literal gold bar from Switzerland.

“He was handed that just days after... a video of him in a fighter jet wearing a gold crown, dumping brown liquid on protesters...”
(Sarah, [22:11])

[23:06] Justin: Release of George Santos

• Pardoned by Trump after a career of spectacular lies, Santos’s reinvention as a Washington socialite says everything about the triumph of spectacle over substance.

“You don’t have to have ever told a single thing about yourself that is true in your life, and you can still be... a respectable figure in the modern era because of social media.”
(Justin, [23:13])

Winner: Mariana’s Gaza Riviera video (“Don’t roll your eye. I mean, do you want a point or not?” – Matt Chorley, [24:21])

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6. Listeners’ Choice: Most Significant Moment

Listeners flooded in with their own picks, but the standout was the Oval Office meeting between Trump and President Zelenskyy:

[25:13] Matt, summarizing Andrew’s message:

“It has to be when Zelensky turned up in his usual battle attire and met Trump and Vance for the first time as well. Bullied live on television. Surely nobody was expecting that.”

Sarah and others highlight its symbolism — revealing the Trump administration’s cold-blooded realpolitik toward Ukraine.

“It wasn’t just an extraordinary moment though. I thought it told us a huge amount because it told us how Donald Trump and the White House feel about Ukraine... you’re a minnow up against this enormous Russia. Why do you think you can stand up to him? Just give up.”
(Sarah, [26:18])

Winner: The Oval Office "bullying" of Zelenskyy (and social-media-memed Vance)

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7. Retrospective & Wildcards

[29:14] Sarah:

• Highlights Trump forcing Netanyahu to publicly apologize to Qatar over Israeli actions, plus memorable quotes like NATO’s Mark Rutte:

“Sometimes Daddy has to use bad language.” ([29:52])

[29:52] Mariana:

• Returns to the Kirk assassination as a social media inflection point, sparking fresh debate around freedom of expression, violence, and the government’s evolving stance on online speech.

[33:20+] Sarah, Mariana, Justin:

• Discuss proposals for visitors to the US to submit years of social media handles (likely to fizzle, but anxiety is real).

[34:01] Justin:

• Non-political tectonics: Nvidia’s rise to $5 trillion cap, symbolizing tech’s grip on US economic story, and how stock market surges coexist with everyday economic hardship.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He is the most disruptive president of the United States ever... He is normalizing a really, really radical agenda.”
  (Sarah, [05:41])

• “You don’t have to have ever told a single thing about yourself that is true in your life, and you can still be... a respectable figure in the modern era because of social media.”
  (Justin, [23:13])

• “Sometimes Daddy has to use bad language.” (Mark Rutte, Secretary General of NATO, via Sarah, [29:52])

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Important Timestamps

• [02:58] Introduction of Americast Awards & categories
• [03:17–09:23] Biggest Disruptor of the Year pitches
• [09:33–14:37] Biggest Surprise/Unexpected Moment
• [15:03–20:49] Employee of the Year
• [21:06–24:21] Most Bonkers Moment
• [24:53–26:18] Listeners’ Choice: Zelenskyy moment
• [26:18–29:14] Deep dive into Ukraine/Trump dynamic
• [29:52–31:47] Effects of the Kirk assassination
• [34:01–35:35] Nvidia/tech and the real American economy

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Tone & Final Thoughts

The episode is both irreverent and incisive, blending amusement (awards for hats, bonkers AI videos) with deep unease at the radical turn of American politics and its impact on global affairs. By focusing on the “awards” for 2025, the podcast offers a snapshot of America at a crossroads, where disruption, spectacle, and unpredictability rule—and where even the bonkers is never just for laughs.

Transcript

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[Justin]

Hello, it's Justin here with a question for you. What do you want us to talk about when we're predicting what's going to happen in 2026? In other words, do you want to hear more about the Democrats and what's likely to go on with them? Do you want to hear whether Mamdani is likely to be successful or not successful in New York? Do you want to hear about Trump's state of mind? Give us as well your suggestions about what you think is going to happen. Because what the heck, they might be as good as ours. Indeed, they might be an awful lot better. So let's mix them all up together and we look forward to hearing from you. Okay, so to get in touch with us, it is the WhatsApp [phone] or email americastbc.co.uk. the hashtag is AMERICAST, and for Discord, the link is in the description. Okay, let's get on with the episode.

[Sarah]

Hello, it's Sarah here. I'm very happy to say I'm in the studio in real life with Justin and Mariana, not in the worldwide headquarters, but in our Westminster studio because it's Monday and that's the day we join Matt Charlie on five Live to answer your questions on americancers. Well, this episode's a little bit different. Instead of answers, we're handing out awards. It's the Merrick Wards, which is very, very difficult to say, but hopefully it's going to be fun here. Here's Matt.

[Podcast Advertiser]

Americast americast from BBC News.

[Mariana]

When Donald Trump calls, they Say yes, sir. Right away, sir.

[Sponsor Voice]

Happy to lick your boot, sir.

[Justin]

We are the sickest country in the world.

[Matt Chorley]

Oh, dear.

[Mariana]

Are you worried that billionaires are going to go hungry?

[Sarah]

Of course the President supports peaceful protests.

[Mariana]

What a stupid question.

[Pete Doocy]

Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein?

[Matt Chorley]

Okay, so this is how the America Awards are going to work. We've got categories. Each of the rarecasters are going to pitch a nominee, we'll have a chat, and then I'm going to pick the winner on the strength of the pitch. So it's basically whoever gives the best pitch wins. So we begin with biggest disruptor of the year. Mariana.

[Mariana]

This is a very predictable answer for me, but it's gonna have to be Elon, of course. This. You were gonna click a button there and you didn't know which one.

[Matt Chorley]

Well, no, I've got so many.

[Mariana]

I've got so many. It's Christmas.

[Matt Chorley]

I've got all of the Christma.

[Mariana]

Elon Musk, because, remember, him and Donald Trump started off as BFFs start of the year. Then they had this big kind of spat that was provoked by kind of combination of stuff around taxes and everything, around the tariffs and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then Epstein and everything around Jeffrey Epstein triggered this real kind of mighty falling out on X. You might remember Elon Musk started tweeting some stuff that Donald Trump really didn't like about him and that Donald Trump said wasn't true.

[Pete Doocy]

He knew every aspect of this bill. He knew it better than almost anybody. And he never had a problem until right after he left. And if you saw the statements he made about me, which I'm sure you can get very easily, it's very fresh on tape. He said the most beautiful things about me, and he hasn't said bad about me personally, but I'm sure that'll be next. But I'm very disappointed in Elon. I've helped Elon a lot and then.

[Mariana]

They'Ve sort of like, patched it up. But Elon Musk's ability to kind of stay within Donald Trump's orbit somehow and. And then also dictate opinion on matters particularly on X and on social media and within the alternative media sphere has continued to be very effective. So I think he's definitely disruptor in chief.

[Matt Chorley]

If I was thinking about this the other day, when in the UK the government announced the name of the person who's going to chair the grooming gangs inquiry, and that was how the year began, with Elon Musk.

[Mariana]

Yeah, well, that was like the filing.

[Matt Chorley]

Into the grooming gangs thing. And then Nigel Farage followed, and then the Tories did, and Keir Starmer said no, and then eventually you. And it was a sort of a weird footnote to the end, I thought. Actually, in the uk, we go for quite a long time without thinking about Elon Musk, when at the beginning of the year, he was sort of forcing government policy.

[Mariana]

Yeah. And he's come back around again. I mean, he was very obsessed with the UK for a period of time at the start of the year, and he's now again, very obsessed with the uk. There's this quite viral clip of him on a podcast talking about how we're sort of like weird little hobbit Village People. I don't know if you've seen that, if you've seen that, which sparked quite a lot of conversation. And, yeah, he's still. He's still kind of into those issues and he's kind of come back to what he was like. He's almost come a bit full circle, really.

[Matt Chorley]

Very good. So your nominee for biggest disruptor of the year is Elon Musk. Sarah, who are you picking?

[Sarah]

Well, this isn't terribly imaginative, but I tried to think of somebody who'd be a little bit more left field. But I've just got to say Donald Trump, not because he's the President of the United States, but because the two.

[Matt Chorley]

Of you have absolutely stuffed Justin.

[Sarah]

I want to argue that he is the most disruptive president of the United States ever. I mean, this is influence that is spectacular. So there's all the stuff we talk about all the time. These immigration raids, dragging people out of workplaces and homes to have them deported, all of the domestic policy agenda. But you've had universities cowed, having to do exactly what he wants and paying him huge checks just to be allowed to survive. Boardrooms across the country, across the world, rewriting all of their policies to make it up to what Donald Trump wants to do. He's taking more power into the White House than to the executive office than any president has ever seen before. And he is normalizing a really, really radical agenda in a way that the Democrats don't know how to respond to. It makes it seem as though this is how government policy works these days, when it's not using the criminal justice system to go after his enemies and his adversaries across the board. He's doing things no president's ever done before. Any one of these would be a major disruption, but he's doing it all at once.

[Matt Chorley]

And actually, that is a reminder when you talk about the amount of power he's taken and what he's done. It's not just disruptive in the sense of he makes a lot of noise. It is backed up by action. Yeah, yeah, go on then, Justin, who have you got?

[Justin]

Well, following on from that, actually, my choice was Gavin Newsom. And my choice is Gavin Newsom because.

[Matt Chorley]

Reminders who he is.

[Justin]

So Gavin Newsom is the super smooth governor of California who has been around for ages. And everyone in America who thinks about these things thinks that they know him or thought that they knew him until the beginning of this year and thought that they either liked him or they didn't like him. But one thing was clear about him, he was too super smooth and too kind of politician y and ever really to make it in the modern political world. And what he has done, it seems to me on two counts is make it in the modern political world and really disrupt it. Number one, he had this amazing podcast which is actually still going on, but it started with an incredible bang with Charlie Kirk, the right wing guy who was murdered, with Michael Savage, another very prominent right wing, a whole list of people who absolutely are hate figures on the left. And he talked to them in an amiable way and it shocked people and disrupted, I think, within the Democratic Party the way that they think of how to do politics in the modern era, at least made them think, goodness me, this is a new way of doing stuff. We ought to work it out. And then just a final thought on him. He had this incredible victory against Donald Trump, which I think really, in a way, is the only victory there's been against Donald Trump. And that is that he got the law changed temporarily in California so that they could effectively gerrymander some districts and get some extra congressmen and women in the midterms next year to make up for what Trump has done or Trump allies have done in Texas. And he had to go. He had to raise money, had to go to the people of California. He had to convince them he had to win the election. And he did all of those things. And it was a one in the eye for Donald Trump.

[California Politician]

I'm grateful for all the elected officials that are here, members of Congress, not just our two U.S. senators, to members of the California legislature for having the courage of their convictions, for standing tall and standing firm to recognize today is liberation day in the state of California. And as Senator Schiff said, as Senator Schiff said, Donald Trump, you have poked the bear and we will punch back. Here's the good thing about California, folks. We're the size of 21 state populations combined. We're the fourth largest economy in the world. We're not a small, isolated state. I know they say don't mess with Texas. Well, don't mess with the great Golden State.

[Matt Chorley]

I mean, it's hard to argue against Donald Trump, isn't it? So, Sarah. That's one for Sarah. Right, let's do biggest surprise of the year or most unexpected moment. You can go first this time, Justin.

[Justin]

God, I really struggle with this because there are quite a few things within the Trump orbit, obviously, that are, that were surprising in as much as he has this incredible ability to shoot himself in the foot. But the kind of moment that I thought was just kind of epitomized everything actually happened right at the start. So it was on the night of the inauguration, and we were all looking at Donald Trump, and he was held this kind of basically a press conference that lasted all evening in various venues. It came from place to place, chucking Sharpies out at people. People will remember those weird scenes. And then he gets to the Oval Office and a guy called Pete Doocy works for Fox News. Pete shouts out at him, is there a letter there from Joe Biden?

[Pete Doocy]

President Trump, did President Biden leave you a letter? He may have. Wait, don't they leave it on a desk?

[Justin]

And Trump, he says, oh, oh, Pete, that's a good thought. Where do they normally keep them? Let's have a look. And he opens the drawer and there's a letter in there. And he gets it out and he says, where's the effect of, huh? Pete, thanks a lot for that. Cause otherwise we probably never would have found it.

[Pete Doocy]

Peter, thank you very much. I may not have seen this for months.

[Justin]

Happy to help with the passing of the torch. To me, that kind of epitomizes the whole of the Trump administration. Now, I'm not so naive to think that that wasn't set up, actually. I'm not convinced either way, actually. But it was one of those moments that's just sort of made for the Trump era. It kind of had this weird, random, as the kids would say, aspect to it. It also, in a sense, it didn't mean anything, but it told you a lot, actually, about Trump, about his relationship with the press, about the fact that Biden had still left the letter, about.

[Matt Chorley]

How often Donald Trump goes in his jaws.

[Justin]

How often Donald Trump goes in the jaws. I mean, he literally said worse than the effect of, I don't think we would have found it if you hadn't asked me.

[Matt Chorley]

Anyway, very good. That. I like that. Mariana, what's your unexpected moment of the year?

[Mariana]

I wasn't sure if this was going to be like, categories where we just keep going back and forth along the line and then someone takes your category in your life. Mine is going to be also Oval Office, but much more recent, which was when Mamdami, who won New York mayor, was with Donald Trump in that office. And all of a sudden, having been this kind of war of words constantly between Donald Trump and Mandami, it was like Donald Trump suddenly decided he. He, like, loved him. And we do know that he loves successful winners regardless, perhaps, of their differing political opinions. But particularly that moment where essentially some reporter asks Mamdharmi, you know, you basically said, donald Trump is a fascist. Like, how do you feel about that? And Donald Trump's like, just go ahead. We know. We know that you think it. Are you affirming that you think President Trump is a fascist?

[Justin]

I've spoken about.

[Pete Doocy]

That's okay. You could just say yes. Okay. It's easier. It's easier than explaining it. I don't mind.

[Mariana]

And then also, from my bossing the Internet point of view, it was one of those moments that just spawned a whole range of very excellent memes, including the next day when Donald Trump was wearing this burgundy roll neck and a jacket that looked really similar to what Mandami was wearing. And everyone was like, is he trying to be him? Like, what is going on here? So, yeah, that's my favorite, mainly because it kind of tells you quite a lot about Donald Trump. But it was surprising because you thought, hang on, these people are going to be sort of arch nemeses, and suddenly they're kind of BFFs. And who does that benefit? Probably Donald Trump.

[Matt Chorley]

This has reminded me that I think the most significant moment this year was that you chastised me for using the phrase bossing the Internet, threatened to have me sanctioned if I used it. And then you've been using it ever since. You've just turned it into your own thing.

[Mariana]

Yeah, because you have to own these sorts of things.

[Matt Chorley]

You just own it, just lean on it.

[Mariana]

You see, like, Donald Trump.

[Matt Chorley]

Sarah, what is your unexpected moment of the year?

[Sarah]

I'll take you outside of the Oval Office, all the way to Utah, to the other side of the country. But this one's a bit of a downer, I'm afraid, for the assassination of Charlie Kirk, who was shot on a university campus there. The right wing influencer, I suppose, political organizer. He had turned out millions of votes for Donald Trump. Donald Trump Credits him in large part for his victory, certainly getting younger voters to support him. And he was very, very active. And he was shocked whilst he was speaking to students on this campus. It was an enormous shock. You could see in the White House what a shock it was to everybody there. I happened to be around in the West Wing the day that the news crept out. In fact, it was Donald Trump who sort of rather accidentally let everybody know that he had been killed, not just injured. And you could see red eyed staff around the place because he was a friend of a huge number of people in White House. But it was, I mean, it was absolutely shocking that level of political violence that somebody well known like that could be killed so suddenly. But it had a huge effect as well. I think everything from late night TV hosts being taken off the air because they didn't treat it seriously enough. I think it's caused a reaction on the right. Who can now say it's the left that drive political violence in America. After the assassination attempt against Donald Trump and then the killing of Charlie Kirk, it's really galvanized a lot of people on the right, I think, to be much more hard line about not trying to meet anybody the middle politically. And so I think it, it was shocking in the moment and will have.

[Matt Chorley]

A lasting effect, I think, because I don't think I, if it had registered, I hadn't clocked the, the letter at the desk. So in that sense it's been a surprise for me today. So I'm going to give, I'm going to have the point, I'm going to give the point to Justin on that one. So I suspect it might be a jaw at the end. We move on to employee of the year. So this is basically trying to have a conversation not about Donald Trump, but recognizing that he's the boss of everyone. Sarah, why don't you go first?

[Sarah]

Well, so he's not technically the boss of my employee of the year, but the person I think has done their job superbly is Melania Trump. She has been absolutely immaculate in every appearance she's made. I love the way that when she walks into the room, Donald Trump looks subservient. He is the only person in America, in the world that you can see him slightly nervously glancing at. Is he doing the right thing and is she pleased with him in any way?

[Pete Doocy]

And I just want to introduce a person who's very outstanding. She is a great person, a highly respected woman. Every time I make a speech, I see signs. We love our first Lady. We love our first lady. They love our first lady. What can I do? I don't like it because I think they like her more than they like me. And I am not happy about it. I am not happy. We're going to have to have a discussion about this.

[Sarah]

And in terms of representing our country, it is a traditional first lady just looking fantastic, being incredibly poised. I thought she did the state visit here brilliantly. Great hat. Oh, and the hat at the inauguration as well. Those hats that keep Donald Trump at six feet away.

[Mariana]

Have you seen the clips of her, even over the past few days, of her reading the stories about Father Christmas, about Santa? Because she always becomes so viral at Christmas, because she just has such an interesting approach to Christmas, Mainly because she's like reading out this book and it's about. It's about. She kind of is reading out whether Santa has night vision, but it sounds like she's almost conducting a kind of inquisition of Father. She's like, does he have night vision? Anyway, it's always. There are so many good clips of her doing that. Can Santa see in the dark? Does he wear night vision goggles that make everyone green? Everything green? I bet he'd like that because Santa likes green.

[Sarah]

And she's in charge of about 300 trees throughout the White House as well. So I think she has done her job well this year.

[Matt Chorley]

Very good. Just good hats. Marianna, your employee of the year.

[Mariana]

I nearly went for Barron Trump just because I feel like he's the kind of secret employee of the year, Donald Trump's son, who I think orchestrates a lot of the very savvy social media strategy behind the scenes. But I've actually decided to go for Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Because I feel like of all of the people, he's the person who is actually, it depends the parameters by which we're measuring Employee of the year. But he's the person who has essentially done all of the things that he kind of said he would do, has not fallen out with Donald Trump. Lots of very controversial things. For example, the comments that were made about Tylenol and pregnancy and the impact that could have on women, which lots of doctors and scientists were very critical of. And then also various decisions he's made around vaccines, like the decision to basically get rid of a load of people who are on this board to kind of oversight board around vaccinations and the decision to not invest in MRNA technology and vaccines and things like that, which have sparked a lot of concern from people within the scientific community as well as some people who kind of respect his Approach. I think that he's the person who it feels like Donald Trump, if he was going to give someone a gold star, it might be Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Also from a kind of loyalty perspective around everything. Epstein.

[Matt Chorley]

But it's been interesting how he's been very high profile and like you said, controversial and just around a lot. And normally that's the sort of thing that makes it quite hard to sustain that relationship with Donald Trump. To have been very noisy and high profile.

[Mariana]

Yeah. And not to threaten him in some way.

[Matt Chorley]

And not to threaten him in some way.

[Mariana]

Yeah. I think that there's something about. It's almost like he's in a slightly different niche to Donald Trump, if that's the right way of thinking about it. And I think that he's a very effective person for Donald Trump in terms of kind of courting the social media world in a way that Musk was. But Musk was and is much more of a loose cannon. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Is much more predictable in what he's going to say or do. And then I also think that there's something about, I don't know, there's something about actually, in a weird way, those here, those hearings right at the start of the year when he basically kind of came out to say, actually, I'm not anti vaccination. I just am worried about vaccine injuries and big pharmaceutical companies not being held accountable. And there was that picture of. Of him having the big. Having the McDonald's on the plane, you might remember. It feels like that was almost like a bit of a humiliation ritual. And now he's kind of been allowed to do all the things he wanted to do, contrary to what he said he would do. So I think that he's who Donald Trump would pick as employee of the year.

[Matt Chorley]

Very good.

[Justin]

And Justin, I'm gonna pick a guy called Elbridge Colby. And he is. I need to get his title right. He's under Secretary of Defense Policy under Pete Hegseth at the Department of War, as it is now called. And he is the guy who is the kind of intellectual underpinning of the WHO Trump idea that is not entirely isolationist, but is also not entirely get in everyone's face, everyone, tell them how to behave around the world ist either. And he is the person who's in charge of that policy. And there are those inside the administration who pull in all sorts of other directions, including being much more pro China than he is. Because Eldridge Colby's big thing is China is the number one enemy. And we've got to do everything to make sure that they don't invade Taiwan. And he is, you know, in that he is pulling against Donald Trump, who probably doesn't care too much. He's pulling against all sorts of other administration figures who want to go in other directions. He pulls against allies as well. There was a famous meeting back in. I think it was the summer of the year where the Brits were involved and they were saying, we're sending an aircraft carrier to the South China Sea. And Colby said, where's the effect of. Can you not just call it back because you're a nuisance? You just get in the way. He's kind of really blunt in that way. That is publicly. They're publicly blunt with the Europeans, They've had it with them. They're kind of slightly more polite about the Brits, but under their breath. And Eldridge Colby, if you're looking for a kind of. For an employee in the Trump administration who is a serious thinker about the world and is trying to plot a course through the world, then I'd go for him.

[Matt Chorley]

Oh, this is tough because they're all good. I am very taken by Melania just because of her hat. Does Elbridge Colby ever wear a hat.

[Justin]

Without swinging it in private? Possibly.

[Matt Chorley]

But then it's good because I feel like I've learned something. Not that I don't normally, but. Elbridge, go on, then. You can have it. Justice. That means. I think you've got one each, haven't you? I know you've got two.

[Mariana]

You've given me none.

[Justin]

You can't go back just because you'd already.

[Mariana]

I've got none.

[Matt Chorley]

There's plenty more time. Yeah. Your most bonkers moment we're doing now.

[Mariana]

Bonkers in a shocking way, probably less so than a funny way, was that video that Donald Trump's team shared on social media of the Gaza Riviera, this AI video. And it was showing basically Gaza having been turned into this sort of holiday resort at a time when huge numbers of people were being killed and there was loads of devastation and real concern about sort of a ceasefire and peace and everything else in the Middle East. I mean, that. That remains. But it was one of those really, like, moments that I think, particularly because AI was used as well, and that's something that people have been talking about all year. It triggered a real conversation. It obviously very much set the tone for the entire social media strategy of the don of Donald Trump's team this year, which has really ramped up the kind of let's make it super Controversial. And people, some people will find this kind of funny. Some will be disgusted by it, some will be outraged. You might remember he also did, for example, that Jet2holidays. Well, they did that Jet to holidays theme tune with like people being deported. You know, things that are really like, proper. You'd call it rage bait, which is also one of the words of the year. So it kind of all ties in. So I'm gonna go, I'm go for that video.

[Matt Chorley]

Very good, Sarah.

[Sarah]

Slightly connected. Well, so a lot of the gifts Donald Trump has been given by foreign leaders this year have been absolutely bonkers. I mean, it's just a 400 million dollar plane that he was given by the government of Qatar. My favorite though is the gold crown he was given by South Korea. And he was handed that just days after they had released the video. The same team that Mariana's talking about had released this video of him in a fighter jet wearing a gold crown, dumping brown liquid. These protesters in Manhattan who, because people have been all over the country that weekend on a no Kings protest saying that he's behaving too much like a monarch and not like an elected president. And he rose proudly carrying home from South Korea this amazing huge golden crown. Although I did like the Swiss as well, who just cut to the chase with the golden gifts and turned up in the Overville office with a gold bar with president written on it.

[Mariana]

We are Switzerland.

[Matt Chorley]

That's it. Gold. Justin.

[Justin]

I'm going to go for the release from prison of George Santos. And anyone who's regularly listened to us.

[Mariana]

In the past, Anthony, will really appreciate.

[Justin]

That we'll know who John Santos is. But just in case people haven't, George Santos was a congressman very briefly. He lied about everything in order to get to Congress, I think it's fair to say. I'm not libeling him to say that. I mean, there was nothing basically in his CV that rang true. That was true even down to being Jewish, which he once said he was. And then he had to admit in the end that he was Jew dash ish. And then Trump pardons him and he's come out. He's now a major. I don't know if you ever come across him, Sarah. He's now a major socialite with a lot of connections. And it just seems to me that it's redolent of the times that we live in, really, that you don't have to have ever told a single thing about yourself that is true in your life. And you can still be, in a sense, in inverted commas. A respectable figure in the modern era because of social media, because of everything that there is. So I think George Santos is now quite a star on the Washington social circuit, though it says much for Sarah, that she is much that is good for Sarah, that her social scene does not include George Santos. But he's out there and I think it's extraordinary.

[Matt Chorley]

Well, not just because it's a sympathy vote, but also I enjoyed it. You can have a point for Gaza Riviera video. Don't roll your eye. I mean, do you want a point or not?

[Mariana]

No, I actually quite like to have no point.

[Matt Chorley]

Okay, fine. George Santos is clearly better. So, fine, I'm taking your points off you right now. Listeners have been sending in their moments, so I think collectively we can choose which of these is the best because actually there's quite a lot that we haven't covered. Mike says Trump attempting to blame wildfire control on water from Canada. Somebody else says it has to be Trump being awarded the inaugural FIFA Peace Prize. I mean, that's one of my thoughts.

[Sarah]

Yes, that was a very good moment.

[Matt Chorley]

The fact they made this shiny gold statue just to appease Trump's poncho for shiny things perfectly encapsulates his psychology and leadership. Mike says Donald Trump deployed the National Guard on the Streets of Washington, D.C. several people have mentioned that Oval Office moment with Zelensky.

[Sarah]

Oh, yeah, that's what I was going to go for. That. Well, that really was a very big moment.

[Matt Chorley]

Lots and lots of those. David says the best moment for the USA was losing to Europe in the Ryder Cup. I mean, that's a slightly sideways point, actually. I think. Yeah, we've probably had the most messages about the Zelensky moment. Andrew says it has to be when Zelensky turned up in his usual battle of time and met Trump in Vance for the first time as well. Bullied live on television. Surely nobody was expecting that. Should we give that the.

[Mariana]

Yeah, I think so. And remember, they're all those J.D. vance memes, the ones I showed you in here with his face all squished. They stayed all year as well.

[Justin]

We have just come off the air with Matt Chorley. We are now together. Let's kick off with adding to big moments of the year because we had some good suggestions from listeners, including obviously the classic one, the Zelenskyy one, which I think probably goes down in anyone's minds as a kind of major moment in world history in a way, doesn't it? Not because it necessarily led to anything, but because it was just such an extraordinary site and will be long written about and poured over and all the rest of it.

[Sarah]

It wasn't just an extraordinary moment though. I thought it told us a huge amount because it told us how Donald Trump and the White House feel about Ukraine and they kind of patched it up a little bit later and then there was a better visit with Zelenskyy and now things seem to have swung a little bit back actually towards Donald Trump saying you don't have any cards to play and but you're a minnow up against this enormous Russia. Why do you think that you can stand up to him, just give up, give them even more territory than they've managed to invade because you're not big enough to stand up to him. And it's got nothing to do with the morality or the law around this, the fact that Ukraine was invaded unprovoked. It's got to do with Donald Trump thinking they're bigger than you. So you're going to have to give in to this massive bully.

[Pete Doocy]

You've allowed to be in a very bad position. He happens to be right about from the very beginning of the war. You're not in a good position. Have the cards right now with us, you start having cards right now. You don't. You're playing cards. You're playing cards. You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War Three.

[Sarah]

And it was during that dynamic in the Oval Office that we saw with our own eyes that's how Donald Trump feels about Zelensky and about his country.

[Justin]

For me, I think you could make the case, couldn't you then that going on from that everything that happens in Ukraine could be sort of brought back to that moment. And that makes it a key moment and a key moment that doesn't necessarily redound in Ukraine's favor, let's be frank, or in favor of those who'd like countries not to be invaded by over mighty neighbors. On the positive side, I wonder if the decision to force Benjamin Netanyahu to the table when it comes to Gaza was actually a key moment. So you have this weird situation, don't you, where and we mentioned that, as Marianna mentioned it as being one of the oddest things of the year, this Gaza video that just caused so much kind of outrage around the world. But actually underpinning that, you've got to give some credit to the fact that they brought that war to an end, perhaps temporarily, certainly with an awful lot of things unanswered about the longer term for Gaza. But nonetheless they brought it to an end, and they brought it to an end with a combination of things, I think it's fair to say. Pressure on Hamas, the involvement of the Gulf nations, with whom the Trump administration and certain members of the Trump family have an awful lot to do in the way of business dealings. And that probably didn't harm, actually, the prospects of doing that. But also the attack, the Israeli attack on individuals in Qatar, which the White House apparently, I think, genuinely didn't think much of, and in a sense, brought Benjamin Netanyahu to heel in a way that Joe Biden never could have managed to do, it's fair to say. So I just wonder whether Donald Trump.

[Sarah]

Made Benjamin Netanyahu phone up the Qataris and apologize from the White House publicly.

[Justin]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And that whole process provided another couple of really memorable moments, I think, for me. Do you remember Donald Trump walking out of the White House towards Marine One to get on his helicopter to fly away, and he was so frustrated with what was going on between Hamas and Israel, he swore war in front of the television cameras, and he said, they have been fighting each other for so long, they don't know what the bleep they're doing anymore. And he flew off to a NATO summit in the Netherlands, where Mark Rutte, the Secretary General of NATO, then stood up that evening and said, sometimes Daddy has to use bad language, which was one of my favorite quotes of the year.

[Mariana]

I do think that, and I guess I'm thinking about this very much from a social media perspective, but definitely that the biggest, biggest moment was one that you've already mentioned, Sarah, but when Charlie Kirk was assassinated on campus and there was this incredibly shocking clip of the influencer where he was shot sitting there answering questions. He is, for me, like a kind of product of the social media world. He was so effective at really sort of galvanizing the support online for Donald Trump and encouraging sort of debate, often very heated debates, some of which some people disagreed with, other people thought was a really good thing and important for discussions, not just on campus, on social media, all these clips, everything else. And what I would say is I think that the reason, for me, that moment has been the biggest moment of the year is because I think it's been so formative in the way that it's changed the discussion around a whole load of things in America, particularly actually around the issue of freedom of expression, which is something that Donald Trump has been such a sort of keen advocate of. And yet there's been these quite like, conflicting conversations about it now where there's been these suggestions that, oh, actually, no, hang on. We're not okay with people saying things that are violent or hateful and could inspire someone to be shot or abuse on. On any side of the political spectrum. And you've noticed that quite a few people who, you know, really were kind of like, look hurty words online don't matter, have. Have completely changed their tune. I mean, there was all this stuff, remember all the stuff around like Jimmy Kimmel and the speech he gave and then he. And then they would take. He was taken off air and then, oh, he was back on again. And then even now, like, we're thinking ahead to the World cup happening next year and there's obviously going to be a load of extra tourism in the United States. And there's this question over people having to submit their social media profiles to have a look at, like, what they've posted over the past five years. And there's just feels like there's this real tension going on, which I wonder if that will very much be a problem for Donald Trump next year between, like, we believe in freedom of expression and then also, actually, no, we're worried about abuse and violence. And so actually, no, we don't believe in absolute freedom of expression, which is a valid point to hold, but it just conflicts with what they've sort of.

[Sarah]

Said before on the social media profiles. This is really interesting. So it is true that last week the White House said that they were considering a proposal by which people who were gonna enter the United States on an esta visa waiver, which is how Brits travel to the United States, that they would have to give people their Twitter handle and their social media profile so that they could look at their last five years worth of postings. It's a proposal that they're gonna spend 60 days thinking about. They may or may not introduce it. At the end of that I might put my money on. Not to be perfectly honest, but it was so widely reported. Lots of people, including several I've spoken to this weekend, think it's now already the law. And I've been trying to persuade everybody to come and visit me in the course of next year in Washington and they've said no, I' to give them five years worth of my social media.

[Justin]

Your friends though, sir?

[Mariana]

Yeah. Well, they used to do this though, when, when I applied for. When I lived in Russia and I applied for Russian visas. We used to. You had to give your social media handles, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I was a student at the time, but I mean, now I'm sanctioned by Russia, so that won't be happening. Well, that, yeah, that's kind of irrelevant now, but it's, it's interesting. I mean, also there's all kinds of actual logistical problems with that. Like, lots of people have private social media accounts, so I don't really know how you'd even go about carrying out. And on what basis do you then reject the person? Is it because you believe they might be posting extreme things that make them a kind of terror threat of some description? Or is it just because they post things that are in disagreement with certain political views? I mean, where, like, what's the point of it? Which I think wasn't made very clear in the initial.

[Sarah]

No, and I, I think that's why it probably won't come in. And, and yes, and people can come and visit me next year without worrying about their social media privacy being invited.

[Justin]

Can I bring up something that I don't think anyone of our listeners brought up, and we didn't either, but I think it's worth doing. I'm sure you'll agree with this, Sarah, that so much of America isn't about politics. In fact, most of America isn't about politics. And a lot of America is about business. And we've got. I can't remember when it was. I think it was in October. Nvidia, this incredible chip maker that, I mean only a few years ago was quite a minor chip maker, is now a $5 trillion company. Now, I don't know what $5 trillion looks like, but it's a heck of a lot of money. And it's easily the biggest company by market capitalization in the world, and bigger.

[Sarah]

Than a lot of countries.

[Justin]

Bigger than a lot of countries, more powerful than a lot of countries. The boss fated around the world. I mean, we talk constantly about the big tech companies sucking up the Trump administration and they do big time. But also actually he has to, in a sense, do what they want as well, and governments around the world need to. And I just think the incredible. It's also a domestic political story because although Trump has done all sorts of things with tariffs and all the rest of it, and his enemies would certainly say has not done anything much to improve the American economy. Actually, the American economy in many respects ticks along just fine, particularly powered by the stocks of the big. What is it, seven, the magnificent seven.

[Sarah]

So there's different aspects of the economy, isn't there? Can people afford what they want to buy when they go into the supermarket is entirely different from how is the stock market performing. Although of course those same people might see that their pension fund is doing well on the stock market, even though they're struggling to pay for their Christmas dinner this year. And both things matter. But I mean, your point is well made, Justin, because this stock market boom is based on people thinking AI is going to change the world and thinking that these magnificent seven and tech companies are the ones who are going to do it. And if that bubble bursts a little bit like the Internet bubble did before. Now, the Internet obviously still was a revolutionary force, but not necessarily the companies that everybody was invested in in 2000. So if something happens to any of those companies, it's going to take the whole stock market down with it. So it's a very precarious moment.

[Justin]

Vile.

[Sarah]

Bye bye bye.

[Podcast Host]

Thank you for listening to another episode. It's you, the Ameracaster that makes AmericasT the community it is. If you like what you've heard, please do subscribe to this podcast on BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts. We always want to hear your feedback and we look at every single bit of correspondence we get. You can send us an email americastbc.co.uk our WhatsApp is 44-332-3480 and of course you can get involved in the AmericasT Discord server. The link to that is in the description. Until next time. Bye.

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