Why Democrats are panicking about losing California

Summary

Americast – BBC News
Episode: “Why Democrats are panicking about losing California”
Date: May 15, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the turbulent 2026 California gubernatorial race, a contest that’s left Democrats extremely anxious about potentially losing their grip on the nation’s most populous—and traditionally safe blue—state. Through lively discussion and on-the-ground insight, the hosts examine why the field is unexpectedly weak and divided, why Republicans suddenly have a shot, and what this means for American politics at large. BBC’s Justin Webb, Sarah Smith, and Anthony Zurcher are joined by Democratic strategist Christine Pelosi to unpack the state’s political, economic, and social woes, the jungle primary system, and the cast of candidates vying to govern the world's fourth-largest economy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why California Matters Right Now

• California isn’t just any state—it’s an economic powerhouse with an international profile ([01:05]). With 40 million residents and Silicon Valley’s outsized influence, its governor inevitably becomes a major national political figure.
• The outcome influences not only state politics, but, given its size and wealth, has ripple effects for the national Democratic Party.

2. Chaos in the Democratic Field

• The Democratic candidate pool is remarkably weak, with top-tier prospects (Kamala Harris, Alex Padilla) refusing to enter ([03:47]).

  • “None of the prominent names... that people... expected might jump into the California race did.” – Anthony ([03:47])
  • High-profile contenders like Katie Porter and Eric Swalwell flamed out due to scandals: Porter for staff mistreatment, Swalwell for allegations of sexual misconduct ([03:47]).

• The open-field, “jungle primary” system exacerbates risk, as vote-splitting among Democrats could let two Republicans through ([05:03], [27:48]).

  • “It is a mess. And none of the prominent names … have jumped in... What has been left is kind of a grab bag of California politicians, each with their own strengths, but also very distinct weaknesses.” – Anthony ([03:47])
  • “In this California jungle, it is remarkable that there are no real big beasts... it’s like a chattering troupe of chimpanzees.” – Sarah ([05:03])

3. California’s Problems Fuel the Panic

• Cost of Living & Out-Migration: Skyrocketing housing prices and high taxes are driving residents (even wealthy Democrats) out to states like Texas, Nevada, and Arizona ([08:04]).
  • “California does have problems and they're very real problems... The biggest one is cost of living.” – Anthony ([08:57])
• Homelessness & Crime: Visible homelessness encampments, especially in cities like San Francisco and LA, are political flashpoints ([10:32], [11:36]).
• Difficulty in Governance: The vast diversity and conflicting constituencies make it nearly impossible for any leader to keep most people happy ([08:57]).

4. State of the Republican Field: Steve Hilton Rises

• Front-runner: Steve Hilton, a former British political adviser turned US citizen and Fox News host, has shot to the top of the GOP field ([12:28]-[13:15]).
  • Trump’s endorsement solidified his place—but may have limited broader Republican options. Ironically, his embrace of right-wing media politics contrasts sharply with his previous centrist stance in the UK ([14:06]).
  • “He has won the endorsement of Donald Trump... which in a lot of races is what Republican candidates absolutely crave. Different question in California as to whether it's a massive electoral advantage…” – Sarah ([13:22])

5. Democratic Candidates: Who’s Left and Who’s Struggling

Javier Becerra

• Former Secretary of Health and Human Services under Biden, ex-Attorney General of California, but considered bland—“milquetoast”—and not a charismatic campaigner ([17:23]–[18:32]).
  • “He is not an engaging public speaker, let’s put it delicately... in Biden’s cabinet... he was kind of considered a lightweight.” – Anthony ([18:32])
• Recent awkward press encounters highlighted his discomfort and lack of political sparkle ([19:30]).
  • Memorable moment: Becerra struggles to set interview “rules,” appearing naive about tough questioning ([19:34]).
  • “It’s not nearly as bad as Katie Porter's clashes with the press though, is it?” – Sarah ([19:53])

Katie Porter

• Once a star, now infamous for a viral clash with a journalist; comes off as defensive and prickly, torpedoing her candidacy ([21:34]).
  • “I want to have a pleasant, positive conversation... If every question you're going to make up a follow up question, then we're never going to get there…” – Porter ([20:56]–[21:11])

Tom Steyer

• Billionaire environmental activist, previously a 2020 presidential candidate, spending massive sums on TV ads ([23:02]).
  • Framing himself as the billionaire who’ll tax the rich and break up corporate monopolies ([23:02]).
  • “I’m the billionaire who wants to tax other billionaires... I’m the person who is the change agent in this state.” – Steyer ([23:18])

6. Media Blunders and Food Follies

• Steve Hilton’s “street taco” gaffe—eating a hard-shell taco outside Del Taco and mislabeling it—became a small, but telling, scandal as pundits mocked it as pandering to Latino voters ([25:34]).
  • “He doesn't know his original taco from his street taco... a naked attempt to curry Latino vote and he's messed it all up by mixing up his tacos.” – Sarah ([25:48])
• Hosts recount how food faux pas (John Kerry’s Philly cheesesteak, Trump’s knife-and-fork pizza) can haunt ambitious politicians ([27:11]).
  • Memorable laugh: “So you can come back from food related mistakes.” – Sarah ([27:28])

7. Perspective from Christine Pelosi

(Begins at [27:36])

• Daughter of Nancy Pelosi, California political insider, joins to offer strategic analysis of the state of play and Democratic anxiety.
• Why Democrats are Panicking:
  • Primary Risks: Too many Democrats and strong Republicans could knock Democrats out completely ([28:40]).
    • “So if you look at the math, every vote counts, and a lot of the polling is based on what they consider to be likely turnout models. But as we've learned... the polls consistently undercount the support that the Republican Party has in California.” – Pelosi ([28:40])
  • “Resistance” vs. “Management”: Dems want a candidate who can both stand up to the Trump administration and manage California’s complex relationship with Washington ([30:44]).
    • “You want someone who can merge the resistance and the management... defend California, but also manage... to get the resources we need.” – Pelosi ([30:44])
  • Mistrust in Government: Part of the Republican strategy is to undermine faith in big government. Democrats must show that government can deliver, especially on basics like housing, health care, and infrastructure ([33:19]).
• The Stakes:
  • California’s performance influences national perceptions—Democrats must ensure effective governing or risk bolstering Republican narratives nationwide ([34:22]).
    • “If we want to see government play an active role in people's lives... it's on Democrats... to prove that government works effectively.” – Pelosi ([33:19])
  • Practical accomplishments and failures—like on housing or high speed rail—need to be communicated clearly ([34:22]–[35:14])
  • “If you're the candidate for governor and your message is you'll pardon the expression, F. Trump. Then if you're the federal government, the response back is F you. Right. So ... what are you going to do to restore those cuts?” – Pelosi ([31:22])

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the Weakness of the Race:
  • “It is remarkable that there are no real big beasts... it’s like a chattering troupe of chimpanzees.” – Sarah ([05:03])
• Steve Hilton’s Position:
  • “People are desperate for change. If you look at the polls, there's a majority who think the state's going in the wrong direction. Why would you vote for a Democrat if you want change…?” – Steve Hilton ([15:15])
• Christine Pelosi on Democratic Hand-Wringing:
  • “I'm holding onto my ballot for the very last day... millions of California Democrats are doing the same thing, holding onto our ballots and watching the ever-changing dynamics of the governor's race to make sure... one of our candidates makes the runoff.” – Christine Pelosi ([27:48])
• On the Big Job of Governing California:
  • “It's like running a country. And so I think that's why we will have presidential level attention on this race both now and certainly... when we on the road to November.” – Christine Pelosi ([37:05])

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Important Timestamps

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp | |---|---|---| | California’s national significance/overview | [01:05] | | Democratic field in disarray, no big names | [03:47] | | Jungle primary rules and risks | [05:03] – [06:33] | | Social issues: cost of living, homelessness, crime | [08:04] – [11:36] | | Republicans’ rising fortunes – Steve Hilton’s background | [12:28] – [14:06] | | Hilton’s Trump endorsement and campaign rhetoric | [15:15] – [16:14] | | Fact-checking Hilton’s claims, GOP base & Hispanic outreach | [16:14] – [17:09] | | Breakdown of top Democrats (Becerra, Porter, Steyer) | [17:23] – [24:25] | | Steve Hilton's “taco” gaffe & food in politics | [25:34] – [27:28] | | Christine Pelosi: strategic Democratic panic, primary mechanics, and the “management vs resistance” dilemma | [27:36] – [33:19] | | Broader implications for the Democratic Party & governing challenges | [33:19] – [37:05] |

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Episode Takeaways

• For the first time in decades, California’s Democratic dominance is under threat, largely because of a divided, uninspiring field and real, tangible voter discontent.
• The open “jungle primary” system means Democrats risk splitting their own vote, while a visible, Trump-backed Republican could unify much of the right, making a major upset possible.
• Core issues—cost of living, homelessness, and government competence—are driving the debate, and national political currents (including Trump’s influence) are inseparable from the local picture.
• Christine Pelosi offers a candid insider’s view into party anxieties and the broader stakes for American democracy and governance.
• The California governorship is more than a state office—it’s a springboard to national leadership, especially for Democrats.

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The episode’s central question—will Democrats lose California’s governor’s mansion?—remains open. What’s clear is that both the state and the wider Democratic party can’t afford to be complacent, and the world is watching their next move.

Transcript

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[A]

The governor of California is in charge of the world's fourth largest economy. That's what California would be if it were a separate country. 40 million people live there. It's got, of course, some of the world's most powerful tech companies as well. And that job, the governor's job, up for grabs in November when Californians will decide on their next governor. The winner will become a household name in American politics. May well one day want to be president as a result of being a household name. But with a lot of Californians unhappy and big name Democrats ruling themselves out of the race, could the party seriously lose control of the state? Are the Republicans as they were back in the days of Schwarzenegger and further back in the days of Ronald Reagan? Are they about to get the governor's mansion in their grip again? Welcome to AmericasT.

[D]

AmericasT.

[B]

AmericasT from BBC News.

[A]

You hear that sound? Oh, I think when I hear that

[C]

sound it reminds me of money.

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We didn't start this war, but under President Trump, we are finishing it.

[B]

This is a big cover up and

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this administration is engaged in it.

[D]

This guy has Trump derangement syndrome.

[A]

I have four words for you. Turn the volume up. Hello, it's Justin in the worldwide headquarters of AmericasT in London, England.

[D]

It's Sarah here in the BBC's Washington bureau.

[C]

And it's Anthony along with Sarah right here in Washington D.C. and we are

[A]

going to be joined by California royalty today. Christine Pelosi is going to join us. The long term Democrat knows the state very well, running herself actually as a candidate, isn't she in the California state Senate? She was a party political strategist for a long time. But of course she is also the daughter of Nancy, who is the very, very long serving Democratic leader in Congress, speaker of the House and all time kind of, I don't know, fixer of Democratic successes down the years, it's fair to say, isn't there? So Christine Pelosi, not only a big figure herself in California politics, but also very much attached to a family that knows the California scene. And the reason we're doing that, guys, is that we're going to concentrate on California. And the reason we're concentrating on California, Sara and Anthony, is that it's a mess actually, isn't it? We've got this race coming up for the governor's House. It's such an important race. It's such an important position. You think of Ronald Reagan, you think of Schwarzenegger and you think of Gavin Newsom, actually, who's using it as a springboard to the presidency, he hopes. But this time round, huh?

[C]

Yeah, it is, it is a mess. And none of the prominent names that people kind of expect expected might jump into the the California race did. So that includes Kamala Harris, the former senator, former Democratic nominee for president in 2024 after Joe Biden dropped out, former vice president, she decided not to run. Alex Padilla, who is the sitting senator from California, was rumored to have been Gavin Newsom's pick to be his successor. Also said he wasn't going to run for it. So what has been left is kind of a grab bag of California politicians, each with their own strengths, but also very distinct weaknesses. Katie Porter, a Democratic congresswoman, was a rising star for a while, but she kind of imploded after allegations that she was cruel to her staff. Of course, Eric Swalwell, we've talked about another congressman from California. He was starting to become a front runner and he collapsed because of multiple allegations of sexual impropriety, harassment, even allegations of assault. He resigned from Congress and dropped his California bid. So that leaves a few other folks who all been kind of jockeying for position. But no one has really emerged from the pack on the Democratic side.

[D]

And that's even more dangerous in the Democratic Party than it would be normally because of what happens in California, which is called a jungle primary. So instead of the Democrats having their own primary to pick a candidate and the Republicans doing the same, they're all in the same electoral contest. So on the same day in June, voters pick which candidates they want in the runoff election in November. And it could be two Democrats, it could be two Republicans. It could be one of each. It's the just whichever two candidates come to the top of the pile in this jungle primary. So that's particularly messy and, or exciting. But I mean, in this California jungle, it is remarkable that there are no real big beasts, as Anthony was saying, saying there, there's no silverback, no jaguar striding through. It's like a. I love the imagery. I know, it's like a kind of chattering troupe of chimpanzees, isn't it? All arguing with each other over who should get the nomination and who should be the governor. But I mean, Justin, it is astonishing you were saying how many high profile governors there have been. Just think about California. If it was a country, it's got like 40 million people living in it. You know, that's not far off a decent sized European country. It's got a larger economy than most of them. It's the fourth biggest economy in the. That's bigger than the United Kingdom. It's got deep billions of money in venture capital. It's got all the excitement of Silicon Valley. They're busy inventing the future there in California. And yet, yeah, just some chattering chimpanzees wanting to run the stage.

[A]

Mind you, one of them might eventually be a big figure and we should. I always think of the primary that I went to when Hillary Clinton was running against Barack Obama way back when. So this is in the run up to 2008 and it was, I can't remember where it was. I think it was South Carolina. And a journalist said, you know, this is like Gladys Knight and the Pips. She said, in other words, it's Hillary Clinton and all these kind of other figures. And of course, one of those other figures, one Barack Hussein Obama, eventually became rather more than an unnamed Pip. So we should genuflect mildly at least to the fact that one of the figures we're gonna be talking about might one day become something. But it's certainly true that they're not something at the moment and of course worth saying as well, isn't it? Gavin Newsom can't run. He's term limited in any way. He wants to be president. He needs to do other things.

[C]

So I do want to say also it seems crazy, this idea of a jungle primary in top two. There was a reason why California did it. It was a good government measure that went along with electoral redistricting reform, which we've talked about in the past. And that is so that in a state like California that the Democratic Party generally dominates, you wouldn't have a choice in the November election between a Democrat who is definitely going to win and a Republican who had no choice. There could be times when you'd have a choice between two Democrats of different flavors. So maybe you'd have a centrist Democrat and a liberal Democrat in some of these congressional districts and some of these down ballot races. It would allow for voters to have better choices.

[A]

Yeah. And the Republicans would say that the reason why big Democrats, big name Democrats don't want to do it and the reason why it's all a bit of a mess is that actually is also in many respects a rather unhappy place, isn't it? I mean, I know people who are Democrats, actually wealthy Democrats, but Democrats who are themselves leaving the state now partly I think because they want to pay less tax, but partly also because the places they live and you think particularly of the crime ridden nature of a lot of San Francisco, but also other cities as well, less well known cities and places like Oakland, which aren't fancy places that tourists go to, that California has real problems. I only mentioned Los Angeles as well, which is having its own mayoral election, isn't it? Which is quite something. But there is a sense, isn't there in California among Californians themselves that all is not well.

[C]

California does have problems and they're very real problems that the Democratic leadership and Gavin Newsom in the state have struggled to address. And I think the biggest one is cost of living. It's just expensive to live in California right now. The price of real estate is really high. As a result, the taxes are higher. And to be able to buy a house in California anywhere near where you work is, is really difficult. And I think that is one of the main reasons why people are leaving the state, although the tax rates are higher there as well. So you can go to a place like Texas or Nevada where, or Arizona where the cost of living is lower, property values are lower, taxes are lower. There's a certain amount of attractiveness to that. You know, the crime rates, California's aren't by population close to the highest in the country. There are other states that are much higher. But in some of the urban areas there is a problem with homelessness, again related to cost of living. There is a problem with crime, as there is in many big cities. And you know, I was talking to a political analyst for a story I did last year and, and he said California is just a difficult state to govern. It has so many different constituencies, so many different interests. It's such a big state that it is impossible to make all the people happy all the time. It's impossible to make a majority of the people happy all the time. So when you come into the state as a leader, you are having to make tough decisions that are going to anger some constituency or another and it is essentially a thankless task.

[D]

There are some problems though, aren't there Anthony, that nobody can say are not something that needs to be urgently gripped. And the homelessness that you mentioned there, I mean that's what most Americans that were to visit California would be really, really struck by. Whether you're in Los Angeles, San Francisco, some other places. It's really quite disturbing to see the levels of people sleeping rough that there are often abutting. Some very, very fine, some of the most expensive property in the world probably. And you were saying, Justin, you know, some wealthy people who've left the state. I mean, I've got friends who have left certainly San Francisco largely because the neighborhood they were in was becoming unlivable with homeless encampments encroaching pretty much on their garden gates to the point where, yeah, it just wasn't feasible to carry on bringing up a family there. So I mean, there are some in your face problems in California that everybody in this race says need to be tackled. Everybody's identified the homelessness, the cost of living, affordability as the biggest big issues that they're running on. They just have some slightly different ideas about how to fix them.

[A]

We're going to go through the Democratic candidates who we think have got a chance of winning in just a second and we assume still, I think, don't we, that a Democrat is going to win in the end. It would be quite something if they weren't to in this day and age and with the balance, the political balance of California as we know, just worth mentioning though before we get to them, largely because he's a Brit, is that the Republican front runner is probably not a Brit anymore, is he, Anthony? He's probably change, but still. Steve Hilton used to work for David Cameron in Britain when Cameron was prime minister. He was a big figure here actually a well known political figure, certainly in Westminster circles. He's gone out to California largely actually because his wife got a very good job in the tech world out there. But he's. Well, like previous people, Anthony, he's gone to California. He's made something of himself.

[C]

Yeah, Fox News host, a prominent kind of television person in conservative circles and he's used that as a platform as many Republicans in California have. It helps to have a media personality, some sort of media visibility in order to be able to launch a political career there because it's such a big state. But he has used that in order to vault himself to the top of the pack in this jungle primary. He's in the maybe high teens to low 20s, but with a divided Democratic field that puts him at number one, at least for now, and certainly ahead of any other Republicans in the field. So, yeah, he's an interesting character. You probably know more about him based on his political background in the UK than I do.

[A]

Well, yeah, I mean, I don't know much about him now. I think he's been on a journey. Isn't that the phrase you use? He's been on a journey?

[D]

Yes, I think so. Changed somewhat, Justin, from when any of us used to know him around Westminster when he was a pretty liberal conservative. Wasn't he working for David Cameron? No, he'd arrived in California where a lot of people turned left and instead he started in Brazil facing Brexit and a much more right wing Persona. You know, a cynic would argue that that was what helps get you prominence on Fox News, but it's very much the politics he espouses now. And the result is that he has won the endorsement of Donald Trump, which in a lot of races is what Republican candidates absolutely crave. You know, he can make or break your candidacy in a primary, whether or not Donald Trump supports you. Different question in California as to whether it's a massive electoral advantage to have the president behind you.

[C]

Obviously, Donald Trump is still popular among Republicans in California and there's still a lot of Republicans. California's a big state. 40 million people, as we talked about, and maybe 40% of those are Republicans. So that's a sizable chunk of people. And it has helped him cement his position as the Republican frontrunner. There was a little concern that Donald Trump weighing in on this race actually hurt the Republican Party because then all the Republicans rallied around Hilton rather than boosting someone like Chad Bianco, who is a sheriff. Also very Trumpy, anti immigration, has raised concerns about election fraud in the state. The kind of guy that probably would have gotten more Trump supporters if Trump hadn't endorsed Hilton. And I think the most tactical move for Trump would have been to stay out of it. Hope that Hilton and Bianca both got roughly the same amount of support in the state and that would put him at the highest level to be able to sneak past all the other Democrats. But I guess Trump really liked Hilton. Again, Trump likes people who are on Fox News and Fox News talking head. So it's no surprise he endorsed him I suppose. But it has come with complications for the Republican cause in California.

[A]

And what does Steve Hilton himself make of it? He was on CNN and asked if that endorsement helped him now but harms him later. We've had one party rule for 16 years already and it's given us the highest poverty rate, the highest unemployment rate, many other things where we're worst performing state in the nation. It is time for change in California. There's all these pundits and the Democrat machine that arrogantly assumes that yet again the Democrats are going to run away with it because that's what happens in California because they've got money from the government unions and all this advantage of the machine that they've built over the years that is so arrogant it takes the electorate for granted. People are desperate for change. If you look at the polls, there's a majority who think the state's going in the wrong direction. Why would you vote for a Democrat if you want change considering they've been in power for all these years? So I just don't buy any of that argument at all. God, he sounds posher than me.

[C]

My ears are just a British accent so I'm going to have to take your word on that. I did check Justin Hilton is a US citizen now. He got his citizenship in 2021 and and renounced his British citizenship no way a year ago. So yes, he is now full blooded American even if the accent doesn't quite sound like it. But I will fact check a couple of things he said there. The first, California has close to the highest unemployment rate, maybe a percentage off a place like Delaware, certainly below Washington D.C. which isn't a state but still the poverty rate California is six or seven down the list buying even big states like Texas. So it's more middle of the pack. But I think he is touching on, as we discussed earlier, some of the dissatisfaction, some of the frustration that California residents have with the direction of the state and the problems that the state has.

[A]

We should get to the Democrats now, shouldn't we? Who should we start with, Sarah? Who do you think we ought to bring people's attention to first? Because they really are, I mean these are not household names, are they not? There are hardly household names in California actually, let alone outside.

[D]

No, probably the best known is Javier Becerra and that seems to be where the Democrats are coalescing around since Alex Walwell dropped out. So he is now narrowly but is now leading polls of all the candidates and he's definitely the highest polling Democrat, that could change. There's still very high numbers of undecideds in these polls that are being taken. But he is relatively well known comparatively with the others, and a bit more experienced. He was the Health and Human Services secretary under Joe Biden for four years. And so that's why he's getting tagged as being the Biden candidate, which you might not think is necessarily the best, best advertisement for somebody, although it does speak to your politics to a certain degree, as well as your association with an elderly president. He's been the attorney general in the state as well, where he's kind of aggressively pursued legal actions against the Trump administration. So he's somebody who can say he's got exc. Experience at all different levels of government, who's reasonably moderate in his politics and is probably somebody who it would be harder to object to. Do you think, to Anthony make a very positive push for Javier Becerra? I'm not doing very well.

[C]

I mean, he has a well rounded resume. He also was a member of Congress representing California. So he's been around California politics for a while. I mean, he is, let's say it, he's Hispanic, which I think is a benefit campaigning in California, particularly as we saw in 2024, Republicans and Donald Trump making some inroads into Hispanic votes in other parts of the country. He is not a engaging public speaker, let's put it delicately. He's not the most charismatic guy. And there was some talk around Biden circles when Becerra started to move up in the polls as like that guy. Of all the people in Biden's cabinet to make a move to a more prominent political position, he was kind of considered a lightweight or someone who really didn't accomplish all that much. But why do we hear from him talking this week and what became one of the more viral moments of the campaign recently?

[A]

By the way, this is a profile piece.

[C]

This is not a gotcha piece.

[A]

Right.

[D]

Well, look, I think these questions are fair.

[B]

It's in order to learn about you as a candidate.

[A]

So why is about the profile?

[D]

I don't know how you define profile, but I'd like to begin the interview.

[A]

The way I describe profile is you talk about all the things that I've done, things I want to do, and along with some tough questions. But not only tough questions.

[D]

Yeah. So that was Becerra being interviewed on KTLA's Inside California Politics by the journalist Ane Rose Ramos. And yeah, trying to set the rules of the game, which is it's not terribly Flattering for him. It shows a bit of naivety in terms of dealing with the press. It's not nearly as bad as Katie Porter's clashes with the press though, is it? So she's the former congresswoman, Democrat who's also running who. Absolutely furious with a journalist for asking her tough questions once and that clip got out there.

[B]

We've also asked the other candidates, do you think you need any of those 40% of California voters to win? And you're saying no, you don't. No, I'm saying I'm going to try to win every vote I can. And what I'm saying to you is that, well, to those voters. Okay, so, so you.

[C]

I don't want to keep doing this. I'm going to call it. Thank you.

[B]

You're not going to do the interview with us? Nope. Not like this I'm not. Not with seven follow ups to every single question you ask. Every other candidate has answered.

[C]

I don't care. I, I want to have a pleasant,

[B]

positive conversation which you ask me about every issue on this list. And if every question you're going to

[C]

make up a follow up question, then

[B]

we're never going to get there and we're just going to circle around, do this before ever. You've never had conversation with. Okay, but every other candidate has done this.

[C]

What part of I'm me, I'm running

[B]

for governor because I'm a leader. So I am going to make. So you're not going to answer questions from reporters. Okay, why don't we go through. I will continue to ask follow up questions because that's my job as a journalist. But I will go through and ask these and if you don't want to answer, you don't want to answer. So nearly every legislative. I don't want to have an unhappy experience with you.

[C]

Yeah. She was considered one of the top potential candidates early on and that just torpedoed her poll ratings. And so when as we mentioned, Swalwell dropped out cause he was starting to rise in the polls, there was a scramble and no one went back to Porter. Some people started to gravitate towards viscera because as milquetoast as he is, he at least seems to be a safer pick, right?

[D]

Milquetoast. I love that phrase. And I still have, I've looked it up before. I know it's got a Q in the middle of it, not a C

[A]

somewhere in the middle. Yeah.

[D]

I still can't work out what it means and it always makes me think of dipping a piece of toast in A glass of wilk, the way you might do a chocolate chip cookie. What does it really mean, Anthony?

[C]

I mean, I think that's the best kind of definition I can come up with that it just means very bland and unchallenging.

[A]

If you are milquetoast, you're not generally worth $2.4 billion. But our next runner and rider is worth $2.4 billion, which is a sizable sum even in American politics, even for the kind of people trying to be American politicos. And I suppose it's extraordinary that he's a Democrat too, although J.B. pritzker in Illinois is also worth a ton of cash, isn't he? And is a Democrat. So it's not necessarily something that's completely outside the orbit of what is normal. But tell us a bit, Anthony, about Tom Steyer.

[C]

Tom Steyer, he's been on my radar at least because he ran For President in 2020, self financing his campaign. He poured a ton of money into it, campaigning primarily on environmental issues. That's the big thing that he has cared about over the course of his political career. I will say milquetoast is another good way to describe Steyer. He's not the most engaging personality, but he is pouring also vast resources into California. He's on television all the time. It's an expensive state, so having a lot of money to campaign helps. And he not only is also focusing on the environment there, he's focusing on wealth inequality. He talks about being the billionaire who will tax other billionaires and is talking about addressing the economy and the cost of living in California as well. I'm the billionaire who wants to tax other billionaires. I'm the billionaire who's taking on the electric monopolies and trying to break up their power. I'm the billionaire who wants to tax the oil companies and make polluters pay. So when you say I'm the only billionaire in the race, yes, but I'm the person who is the change agent in this state. I'm the person who's taking on the funded corporate interests who are driving up costs for Californians in every place. No one wants to take them on. I'm doing it.

[D]

All of his money might come in handy because this is turning out to be a really, really expensive race. And that is because people like the corporate interests that Stairs says he's taking on are pouring millions into really vehement attack ads. And this is happening to all the candidates. They're all being attacked. A ton of negative publicity where his money comes from. Is one of the things that they're really having a go at him about, saying that actually he was invested in fossil fuels and other less environmentally friendly things and that was why he became so rich in the first place. But it's quite remarkable actually, the level of negativity that there is. So we've pointed out what the attacks on a lot of the Democrats are. We need to go back to our friend Steve Hilton, who's in a lot of trouble over a taco. Tacos are at the center of American politics these days, aren't they? Whether it's Trump's taco that, as people say, Trump always chickens out. Well, now it's a real taco with beef, lettuce, tomato and cheese, I believe, and a hard shell. That has got Steve Hilton into a ton of trouble because he was pictured eating one of these outside a well known Mexican restaurant and he described it as a street taco.

[A]

Very importantly, why am I holding a Barstow street taco right now? Because I just bought it at this historic location. Check it out. The original Del Taco. There it is. My Barstow street taco. I'm going to enjoy. See you soon.

[D]

And it's not, I'm not entirely sure why it's not whether it's because it's got a hard shell or whether it, that's not how it was described in the menu. But anyway, it's caused a big fuss. He doesn't know his original taco from his street taco from his regular taco. It was seen as a naked attempt to carry a Latino vote and he's messed it all up by mixing up his tacos.

[C]

I hope he didn't call it a taco because that would have, would have killed him in, in California or Texas or anywhere else in the Southwest. Taco taco with tomato.

[A]

This is the problem. This is exactly what we identified. I have a feeling this is really going to hold him back. Well, you're telling us has already held him back. Poor old Steve, he can't not get in because he can't pronounce taco. Well, maybe, maybe that is, maybe that's it. Anthony, you're so liberal and understanding usually about our mistakes that we make when it comes to your great country, you suddenly got a very brutal. When it comes to Steve Hilton.

[C]

Oh, that's. It's Tex Mex Mexican food, man. You got to get it right. We're going to run for public office and in a place like California, I mean, you know, and food presents pitfalls. Remember John Kerry putting Was it provolone? Asking for provolone cheese on his steak and cheese sandwich instead of Cheez Whiz. And in Philadelphia, and I think I forget who was trying to cut a pizza with a, with a knife and fork.

[D]

Donald Trump.

[C]

Was that Donald Trump?

[D]

It was decided at the time when he tried to eat a New York slice with a knife and fork that he could never win public office because no New Yorker would use cutlery or flatware to eat their pizza. And that was him counted out. So you can come back from food related mistakes.

[A]

Righty ho, Sarah Anthony, I know you've both got to go and I've got to say hello to Christine Pelosi. So bye bye to you.

[C]

Bye, Justin.

[D]

Bye bye.

[A]

Christine Pelosi, thank you so much for sparing the time to talk to us. A real pleasure to talk to you. And what a fascinating subject as well. Particularly fascinating, it's fair to say, California politics this year.

[B]

Absolutely. It is great to be on. It's a really interesting time for me because the first time in my voting life, I'm holding onto my ballot for the very last day, not for the joy of voting on election day, but because I'll probably be undecided in the governor's race until election day in June. And from what I'm seeing on the lack of early returns, millions of California Democrats are doing the same thing, holding onto our ballots and watching the ever changing dynamics of the governor's race to make sure that we are voting strategically to make sure that one of our candidates makes the runoff.

[A]

Right. And we've explained this, we've just had a chat about this, this weird jungle primary thing where. And that's a real thing, is it, that actually there is so much fear that you might not get the right person through or a person through.

[B]

A person through. That is exactly right. And as you probably just went over. But just to summarize, it means that you could have two Democrats, you could have two Republicans or you could have a Democrat and a Republican. Now, the theory behind it then under Governor Schwarzenegger was, well, he was a moderate and he wanted a moderate Republican, so he wanted more moderate candidates. And he thought that that's what would result. That's not what happened, but that's what he thought. And of course, for Democrats, we're acutely aware of this because some of our Democrats in Congress got there after the first time they ran being locked out because there were too many Democrats on one side in a strong Republican district. So we didn't even have anybody making the runoff. So what we have are five Democrats who could make the top two, and we have two Republicans who could make the top two. So if you look at the math, every vote counts, and a lot of the polling is based on what they consider to be likely turnout models. But as we've learned from Donald Trump since way back in 2016, the polls consistently undercount the support that the Republican Party has in California.

[A]

And if Kamala Harris had stood, this wouldn't be a problem, would it? Because she'd plainly get enough votes and she'd get through.

[B]

Well, she'd make the talk. She would certainly make the runoff. Alex Padilla, our senator, certainly would have made the runoff. It doesn't mean they would have been unopposed, but it would have meant that they would have had the strength. So the point is, if we had had a Kamala Harris or an Alex Padilla in this race, people who won strong statewide races before, contested statewide races before, we would have had. They would have been comfortably in the high 20s.

[A]

What is it, I suppose, is the question that will separate the candidates in the minds of Californians? And what is it that so far as we can know what Californian Democrats are actually looking for this time round?

[B]

For about a year, there's been a resistance lane and a management lane. In the resistant lane was former candidate Eric Swalwell, who dropped out in disgrace after being accused of sexual harassment and worse, Tom Steyer, Katie Porter, and Javier Becerra. A very anti Trump resistance lane. That's one lane. Then in the other lane, you had people like Matt Mahon, the mayor of San Jose, who is saying, look, I can manage the state. I have management capacities. But now that we get close, I think there's two things to keep in mind. You want someone who is. Who can merge the resistance and the management. You want someone who can defend California for what's happening in this administration, but also manage that relationship with Washington, D.C. well enough to still get the resources we need. Just yesterday, JD Vance announced that the federal government is not going to pay back California $1.3 billion with a B in Medicaid costs, covering millions of, of patience. When you combine that with the big ugly bill, H.R. one that Trump calls beautiful and we call a wealth transfer from the poor to the wealthy. If you look at the cuts that are coming, they've already come. There's another round of cuts coming in December. So this new governor is going to inherit massive cuts to the Affordable Care act, both because Donald Trump hates Barack Obama and because he hates California. So if you're the candidate for governor and your message is you'll pardon the expression, F. Trump. Then if you're the federal government, the response back is F you. Right. So the question is we're the patients in between. Right. We're the people. You know, healthcare is the cause of our lives. So we're looking and saying, yes, I want someone who can be strong, but what are you going to do to restore those cuts?

[A]

And Christine, when it comes to the management of the state, California is so salient, isn't it? So much in everyone's minds. And the things that happen there, both good and bad, tend to get kind of passed around the country as examples of this or examples of that. In other words, just when you think about the Democrats and I suppose you think forward to 2028 and you think of the general post Trump world, it really does matter, doesn't it, that in this state, which you think of as being a Democratic state, it does that it's well run that things work.

[B]

Absolutely. There has been a, ever since the Powell memo that was written in the 70s, the Republicans had been funding a consistent effort across the country through think tanks, through candidacies, through conservative media, a consistent message to lower trust in government, to say that government fails and therefore to shrink it. As Newt Gingrich famously said, so small you could drown it in the bathtub. And Democrats as the party of good government, have to prove that government works effectively. People have lost faith in big everything. Now I wrote this in my first book 20 years ago. I still maintain that it's true. Big labor, big business, big church, big government, big everything, big banks. People don't like the large. They do tend to trust their own particular individualized institution. So it's on Democrats. If we want to see government play an active role in people's lives, in providing health care, in providing the basics of housing, housing, education, infrastructure.

[A]

It's such an interesting point about making government work. People like Ezra Klein, the New York Times journalist who knows California well and has written about it, and you'll certainly be very aware of what he's written, that basically the administrative state, the kind of things that Democrats with housing, with high speed rail with all the other things that they don't manage to get off the ground because they're clogged up and the state shows people that it's clogged up. So in other words, Ezra Klein and other Democrats. Well, hang on a second. I'll let you come back. But just to make the point that what a lot of people say in California and as well outside California, there is something that has gone wrong with administration. And it's not just that ever since Ronald Reagan, the Republicans saying we need to have a smaller state, it's actually that the state itself itself doesn't work.

[B]

I would disagree with that and say two things. First of all, when Ezra Klein did his breakdown of the infrastructure bill, he neglected to say that the Republicans were the ones that put in those stops to make it sand in the gears of the bill. That was the cost of their participation and the cost of passing it. It was still worth doing. But let's be clear about that. That didn't make it into his infamous podcast number two parts of California are working very well, parts are not. So it's unfair to paint everybody with a broad brush. When you look at high speed rail, for example, the electrification of caltrain in the San Francisco Bay area worked incredibly well. And we need, you know, we needed to get people to work to and from Silicon Valley and the rest of the San Francisco Bay area. And so electrifying caltrain absolutely worked. On the other hand, going through the process of the build outs from the Central Valley not so well at all. So I think you have to take it case by case. Healthcare, actually healthcare was being delivered by our rural hospitals, our veterans hospitals, our community health centers. So I would say some things work well, some things don't work well. But unless I feel that the governor has, has my interests in mind, cares about people like me and has a plan to make my life better and can prove it to me, I'm still holding onto that ballot.

[A]

Gosh, it's a big job. I mean the one thing. Thanks so much Christine, by the way, for your time. But the one thing you've really made clear, you kind of underlined for us, this is a huge job. Whoever's going to get it, it really does matter, doesn't it? Still matters as much as it did way back in the time of Ronald Reagan. I mean it's still just a huge job in American politics and in a sense in the world.

[B]

Absolutely. I was in fourth largest economy in the world. It's like running a country. And so I think that's why we will have presidential level attention on this race both now and certainly and certainly when we on the road to November.

[A]

Okay, Christine. Christine Pelosi, thank you so much for talking to us.

[B]

My pleasure, thank you.

[A]

Okay, before we go,

[C]

I pledge allegiance to the United States of AmericaSt.

[A]

Do you want to be part of the United States of AmericaSt? Now is your chance we're building this map of our listeners. It's going to go state by state. We want to hear from all 50 in the end, Montana to Delaware to Arizona, etc etc, everywhere in between. And you tell us if you would, what's going on in your state. What matters to you on the ground. Perhaps it's a fun fact about the state, something we don't know. And of course you don't have to live there, you just have a connection of some sort. Any connection. And you are in. Perhaps you've visited, perhaps you've got family, perhaps you've driven through it. Perhaps it's on a road trip Wish list. All of you who have any connection with anywhere are invited. So don't stay silent. Get in touch whether you're a first time emailer or indeed a regular like this ameracaster from Kentucky hey there, this is Jason from North Kentucky. I'm a rural mail carrier with the usps. Firstly, I'd like to say thanks because when I'm delivering mail and listening to AmericasT makes my job a little less tedious. I felt compelled to reach out after I heard on a recent podcast of yours that there's multitudes More money from rich donors is being poured into this Kentucky election and it's very evident at my work every day I've been inundated

[C]

with multiple ads from various candidates to

[A]

deliver to a lot of customers on my route. Many people have complained about the overwhelming number of smear campaign ads that they're finding in their mailboxes. I wonder if you have any opinions or stats about how much all the money being poured into this obnoxious mail ad campaign affects votes. Do you think that they can ironically backfire on the candidates, turning people off from voting from them? Yeah, that's a fascinating point, isn't it, from Jason in Kentucky? I'm not going to try to answer it now, but it is something we need to keep coming back to the extent to which there is this really nasty side to advertising in the States and frankly, it's not new. I mean, it's probably more vicious I suppose, in the era of social media, but I'm old enough, Jason, to remember campaigns of yore. You're thinking back into the 1980s where there was some pretty nasty stuff that was said about people and famously actually affected a few campaigns. But also the point that you make that maybe it doesn't. Maybe people just say, oh, that's horrible. I'm not going to take any notice of. Anyway, it's interesting and it is among the many things that we need to be considering. And just to re emphasize the point, if you think there is something that we ought to be considering, whether it's about your state, whether it's about a state you know, or whether it's about a state that you think we ought to be looking at, do get in touch. It's easy to do you email us americastbc.co.uk or the WhatsApp [phone] be part of the United States of AmericasT.

[C]

Bye bye. Thank you for answering our call and continuing to send us your messages. We do read every single one and love to hear your thoughts, feedback and questions. So please do keep them coming. You can send us an email ameracastbc co.uk the WhatsApp that's 443-301-23-9480 and you can get involved in the AmericasT Discord server. The link to that is in the description and don't forget to subscribe. That way you'll never miss an episode. So until next time, Goodbye.

[A]

I'm Kai Wright.

[C]

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[D]

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[A]

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[D]

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[A]

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