Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, Justice, and the Courts

Episode: A Ketanji Brown Jackson Confirmation-Hearing Preview
Date: March 19, 2022
Host: Dahlia Lithwick
Guest: Mark Joseph Stern

Episode Overview

This episode of Amicus focuses on the upcoming Senate confirmation hearings for Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson, the first Black woman nominated to the U.S. Supreme Court. Host Dahlia Lithwick and Slate legal correspondent Mark Joseph Stern preview the themes and political dynamics likely to dominate the hearings. They also discuss the opposition’s strategies, the significance of Jackson’s public defense work, and the use of political attacks surrounding her nomination.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Significance of the Confirmation

• Jackson’s nomination is described as historic, both for the high court and America at large.
  • “Next week is set to be a historic week for America, for the high court and for the Senate Judiciary Committee as it holds confirmation hearings for Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson, the first black woman to be nominated to serve on the highest court in the land.” (Lithwick, 00:15-00:39)

2. Lack of Coherent Opposition

• The podcast highlights that there hasn't been a clear or substantive opposition to Jackson’s nomination.
  • “There has not been a really coherent opposition to her.” (Lithwick, 00:52)
• Most objections reuse themes from her previous confirmation hearings.

3. The "Guantanamo Defense Lawyer" Attack

• Stern outlines the recurring conservative attack line: criticizing nominees who previously served as public defenders or who represented unpopular clients, such as Guantánamo detainees.
  • “This is an age old tactic that goes way back before then. Conservatives do it way more to liberals than I think liberals do it to conservatives. … We will always see this with any nominee…who served as a criminal defense lawyer and especially a public defendant, which KBJ did and did so quite admirably.” (Stern, 01:36-02:18)
• Stern vigorously defends Jackson’s service, tying it to constitutional obligations:
  • “She was effective. She was direct. And if Republicans claim that that is somehow disqualifying for a judgeship or for the Supreme Court, they are not really attacking Ketanji Brown Jackson. They are attacking the Constitution, the Sixth Amendment that they claim to love so much.” (Stern, 02:41-03:02)
• He dismisses GOP criticism as “cynical and so stupid to be a supposedly constitutional conservative and then lay into a nominee for enforcing the Constitution.” (Stern, 03:07-03:18)

4. The "Guilt by Association" Attack

• Lithwick and Stern discuss Mitch McConnell's remarks critiquing Jackson via indirect association with progressive or "fringe" groups:
  • Mitch McConnell (clip): “But curiously, the same radicals who want to turn Democrats into the party of court packing also badly wanted Judge Jackson for this vacancy…so I intend to explore why groups that are waging political war against the court as an institution decided Judge Jackson was their special favorite.” (03:36-04:08)
• Lithwick characterizes this as “the transitive property of badness,” mocking the logic that because “bad” groups support Jackson, she must therefore be “bad” herself. (Lithwick, 04:08-04:30)
• Stern wryly comments: “I mean, I don't see the flaw in that logic. I think we just gotta go with Mitch here and say thank you. Next.” (04:30-04:37)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Public Defense Work:
  • “That I think is one of the best and noblest uses of a law degree. Those individuals are in desperate need of legal counsel. They are guaranteed legal counsel under the Constitution. She provided that counsel zealously, as she was obligated to by the Sixth Amendment.”
    (Mark Joseph Stern, 02:23-02:38)
• On Conservative Attacks:
  • “It’s cynical and so stupid to be a supposedly constitutional conservative and then lay into a nominee for enforcing the Constitution and standing by it for those who are most in need of its protections.”
    (Mark Joseph Stern, 03:07-03:18)
• On Opposition Logic:
  • “This is, I guess, the transitive property of badness in which Judge Jackson is not bad, but says Mitch McConnell, Bad. People support her and therefore she must be bad by association.”
    (Dahlia Lithwick, 04:08-04:30)
• On Mitch McConnell’s Reasoning:
  • “I mean, I don't see the flaw in that logic. I think we just gotta go with Mitch here and say thank you. Next.”
    (Mark Joseph Stern, 04:30-04:37)

Important Timestamps

• 00:15 — Introduction to Jackson’s historic nomination
• 00:52 — Discussion of lack of coherent opposition
• 01:36 — Breakdown of the Guantanamo/public defender attack line
• 02:41 — Defense of Jackson’s constitutional obligations
• 03:36 — Mitch McConnell’s comments on “radical” support for Jackson
• 04:08 — Lithwick’s analysis of “guilt by association”
• 04:30 — Stern’s quip on McConnell’s logic

Tone and Style

The conversation is sharp, knowledgeable, and at times wryly humorous, especially in dissecting partisan attacks and illogical arguments. Stern is emphatic in his defense of constitutional principles, while Lithwick brings an incisive, slightly sardonic edge in summarizing political rhetoric.

Conclusion

This episode provides an accessible yet nuanced preview of the confirmation hearings, prepared listeners for main lines of criticism against Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson, and offered a forceful rebuttal grounded in constitutional principle. The hosts combine legal insight with sharp critique of political theater, making it an essential listen for anyone interested in the Supreme Court nomination process.