Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, Justice, and the Courts
Episode: A Lawyer’s Guide to Not Caving to the President
Release Date: April 12, 2025

1. Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of Amicus, Dahlia Lithwick delves into the current challenges facing the American legal system, particularly focusing on the Supreme Court's recent decision in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia and the broader implications of the Trump administration's actions on law firms and pro bono work. The episode sets the stage for an in-depth discussion on the responsibilities of attorneys in safeguarding the Constitution and democracy amidst political pressures.

2. Supreme Court Decision on Kilmar Abrego Garcia's Case

The episode opens with an analysis of the Supreme Court's unanimous decision regarding Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who was wrongfully deported to a brutal prison in El Salvador despite lacking any criminal record or gang affiliations. This case is highlighted as a significant indicator of the administration's handling of justice and the rule of law.

• Dahlia Lithwick [02:13]:
  "On Thursday night, the Supreme Court finally issued a decision in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, and it was more good than bad. It was the bare minimum."

• Mark Joseph Stern [04:19]:
  "The Supreme Court held that the government must facilitate Abrego Garcia's release from custody in El Salvador and return to the United States. That part is very good."

Despite the positive outcome, the decision is characterized as ambiguous, allowing the Trump administration some leeway in how they comply with the Court's order.

3. The Trump Administration's Reaction and Implications

Mark Joseph Stern elaborates on the Supreme Court's decision, noting that while the government is now required to attempt Abrego Garcia's return, there remains significant ambiguity about the extent of this obligation. The administration's request for more time to comply with the Court's order reflects a reluctance to fully adhere to judicial directives.

• Mark Joseph Stern [07:54]:
  "The Trump administration seems to be trying to ignore it. And the Trump administration is reading this as, at a minimum, a license to dawdle longer in its half-hearted effort to comply with an edict from SCOTUS."

• Dahlia Lithwick [07:25]:
  "The administration still thinks that it's not anybody's job to tell them how to do this."

This cautious approach by the administration hints at a broader strategy of minimizing judicial oversight while maintaining executive autonomy.

4. The Role of Lawyers in Upholding the Constitution

The discussion pivots to the ethical and professional responsibilities of lawyers in defending the Constitution and democracy. The episode underscores the critical role that legal professionals play in ensuring that government actions remain within constitutional bounds.

• Jesse Weber [02:13]:
  "It's not enough for firms just to say nothing even if they're not capitulating. I really think the whole profession needs to be speaking in a unified voice."

Lithwick emphasizes that lawyers have a duty to not only represent their clients but also to protect the broader legal and democratic framework.

5. Guest Interview: Jesse Weber on Big Law Firms and Resistance

Jesse Weber, Managing Partner at Brown, Goldstein & Levy in Maryland, joins the conversation to provide insights into how law firms are navigating the administration's pressures. Weber articulates the fears within the legal community about the administration's attempts to coerce law firms into performing pro bono work that aligns with its agenda.

• Jesse Weber [27:10]:
  "What you're saying is this looks like Donald Trump cleverly weaponizing pro bono vulnerabilities."

Weber discusses how some big law firms have capitulated, agreeing to provide free legal services to the administration, while others resist. She highlights the ethical dilemmas and the potential long-term impact on the legal profession's ability to uphold civil rights and the rule of law.

6. The Erosion of Pro Bono Work and its Consequences

A significant portion of the episode examines the decline in voluntary pro bono work due to the administration's coercive tactics. The shift forces law firms to choose between ethical obligations and political compliance, weakening the legal system's capacity to defend marginalized groups.

• Jesse Weber [35:43]:
  "It's a very big deal if that work is shifted to only causes that the President cares about, which presumably are not the causes of immigrants' rights or LGBTQ rights or prisoners' rights."

Weber points out that the administration's actions not only suppress legal advocacy for critical issues but also jeopardize the enforcement of civil rights laws that depend heavily on pro bono support.

7. Conclusion: The Future of the Legal Community and Democracy

The episode wraps up with reflections on the sustainability of the current compromises between the judiciary and the executive branch. Lithwick and Stern express concerns about the long-term implications for democracy if the legal community continues to yield to political pressures without unified resistance.

• Mark Joseph Stern [49:55]:
  "With each of these compromises, it becomes more obvious that John Roberts is delaying the inevitable."

• Jesse Weber [58:03]:
  "This is our moment to stand up, be on the right side of history, uphold our oath to the Constitution, represent unpopular clients."

The conversation concludes on a call to action for legal professionals to actively engage in defending constitutional rights and resisting authoritarian tendencies within the government.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Dahlia Lithwick [01:40]:
  "Donald Trump's shakedown of big law firms co-opting hundreds of millions of dollars in pro bono work in order to execute his agenda."

• Jesse Weber [02:33]:
  "But as you said, we have to speak out and help show the public non-lawyers understand how dangerous this is."

• Mark Joseph Stern [10:09]:
  "The Supreme Court wanted to give the district court the hint, step back a little bit, tell the executive branch what it needs to do, and then give it some leeway to do that."

• Dahlia Lithwick [15:59]:
  "If Abrego Garcia is not back in the United States next week, then I think we should call this decision a failure."

• Jesse Weber [36:44]:
  "This means that we're going to have fewer lawyers enforcing the Constitution, enforcing people's civil rights."

Final Thoughts

This episode of Amicus underscores the precarious balance between the judiciary and the executive branch, especially in times of political turmoil. Through insightful analysis and a compelling interview with Jesse Weber, the podcast highlights the urgent need for the legal community to uphold its ethical obligations to protect democracy and the Constitution against encroachments from the highest levels of government.

Listeners are encouraged to reflect on the pivotal role of lawyers in society and consider how they can contribute to preserving the rule of law in the face of systemic challenges.