Podcast Summary: Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, Justice, and the Courts

Episode: Dead Amendment Walking
Release Date: December 28, 2024
Host: Slate Podcasts
Description: A deep dive into the complexities of the law, focusing on the Supreme Court's influence on American life, featuring insights from Dahlia Lithwick and Mark Joseph Stern.

1. Introduction to the Mailbag Special (00:48 - 02:02)

In this end-of-year Jurisprudence Mailbag episode, hosts Dahlia Lithwick and Mark Joseph Stern engage with listener questions, tackling pressing legal issues facing the United States. The episode sets the stage for an in-depth exploration of constitutional matters, Supreme Court decisions, and their impact on everyday Americans.

2. Birthright Citizenship and Executive Orders (02:03 - 04:51)

Listener Question: Arturo inquires about the administration's potential efforts to end birthright citizenship through executive orders, questioning the feasibility and legal ramifications.

Amber Ruffin's Response:
Arturo’s concern touches on a critical issue. Dahlia explains:

"Any attempts [to end birthright citizenship] would require at least a little time until the majority in the Supreme Court decides to overrule Wong Kim Ark. [...] It’s utterly impractical to switch citizenship in this country away from true birthright citizenship."
[02:10 - 04:51]

Dahlia is optimistic that the Supreme Court will uphold the 14th Amendment's guarantee of birthright citizenship, emphasizing the impracticality and potential chaos of altering this foundational principle without jeopardizing countless individuals' citizenship status.

3. The 22nd Amendment and Trump's Potential Candidacy (04:51 - 10:13)

Listener Question: Tracy Harnish explores the possibility of Donald Trump seeking a third presidential term, either directly or through a vice-presidential candidacy, challenging the 22nd Amendment.

Amber Ruffin's Analysis:
Amber highlights the rigidity of the 22nd Amendment:

"The 22nd Amendment says, 'No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice...'"
[05:30 - 10:13]

She acknowledges fringe theories attempting to bypass this amendment but underscores their legal improbability. Additionally, she speculates on possible maneuvers, such as Trump running as a vice president to ascend to the presidency, though Mark Joseph Stern remains skeptical of their viability.

4. Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) Ratification Challenges (15:23 - 20:41)

Listener Question: Tom Harnish addresses the push by House Democrats to have the National Archivist recognize the ERA's ratification, despite missing the state count deadline.

Amber Ruffin's Critique:
Amber expresses deep skepticism about the feasibility of retroactive ERA ratification:

"This is so clearly the reality, and I think it's time to accept it."
[18:17 - 20:41]

She references Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s stance, emphasizing that even legal experts doubt the amendment's legitimacy post-deadline. Amber argues that efforts to force the issue without congressional action are misguided and unlikely to succeed, reflecting on the Supreme Court's probable dismissal of such attempts.

5. Public Confidence and Legitimacy of the Courts (21:50 - 36:17)

Discussion Topic: The podcast delves into the alarming decline in public trust in the judiciary, drawing parallels with authoritarian regimes.

Mark Joseph Stern's Insights:
Mark highlights a New York Times piece by Adam Liptak, noting that public confidence in the legal system has plummeted from 59% to 35% between 2020 and 2024, rivaling trust levels in countries like Myanmar and Venezuela.

"We are sitting in a time when trust in the court has plummeted, making it ripe for authoritarian takeovers similar to other nations experiencing judicial legitimacy crises."
[25:01 - 36:17]

Amber Ruffin's Observations:
Amber underscores the Supreme Court's internal challenges, citing a clip where Justice Alito dismisses concerns about prosecutorial overreach, thereby undermining public trust.

"Justice Alito is one of the single worst malefactors when it comes to talking about the deep state, talking about conspiracies, talking about the rot at DOJ..."
[37:30 - 38:05]

This segment emphasizes the precarious state of the judiciary's legitimacy, suggesting that declining trust could facilitate further erosion of democratic principles.

6. Communicating the Importance of the Courts (36:17 - 40:28)

Listener Question: Brian Lackman seeks advice on how to effectively communicate the significance of the courts to non-news-consuming audiences without inciting panic.

Amber Ruffin's Strategy:
Amber advocates for continuous, relatable discourse that connects Supreme Court rulings to tangible outcomes in people's lives:

"We need to continue to press into people's lives and what is happening on the ground and draw those connections so that people understand this bad thing that's happening to you."
[25:01 - 40:28]

Dahlia and Mark discuss the challenges of maintaining public engagement and understanding amidst fragmented media landscapes, stressing the necessity of highlighting the courts' direct impact on societal issues such as healthcare, gun control, and environmental policies.

7. International Perspectives and Judicial Power (31:46 - 36:17)

Listener Question: Stephen Bodson recommends studying international legal systems to understand and prevent authoritarian shifts in the judiciary.

Mark Joseph Stern's Analysis:
Mark concurs, pointing to Poland's judicial manipulations as a cautionary tale:

"Poland has been a great example here. [...] It ensures that the dead hand of that authoritarian administration continued to rule even after the people voted out the authoritarians and voted in a democratic regime."
[31:46 - 36:17]

He emphasizes the uniqueness of the U.S. Supreme Court's unaccountable authority compared to other nations, advocating for vigilance to prevent similar erosions of judicial integrity.

8. Concluding Reflections and Final Listener Question (40:28 - 48:48)

As the episode winds down, Dahlia and Mark reflect on the role of journalism in elucidating complex legal issues and maintaining public accountability. They acknowledge their efforts to present the "big picture" amidst overwhelming news fragmentation but express both concern and determination to continue their mission.

Final Listener Interaction:
A lighthearted exchange ensues as Dahlia and Mark attempt to answer a comic book character analogy question, highlighting the show's commitment to engaging with all listener topics, even those outside their expertise.

Key Takeaways

• Supreme Court’s Influence: The judiciary remains a pivotal force shaping American policies, from citizenship laws to gender equality, with significant implications for civil rights and societal norms.

• Public Trust Decline: Alarming drops in public confidence in the courts resemble trends in authoritarian nations, posing risks to democratic integrity.

• Legislative Challenges: Efforts to amend the Constitution, such as the ERA push, face substantial legal and procedural hurdles, emphasizing the need for congressional involvement.

• Communication Gaps: Effectively conveying the courts' importance to the broader public requires connecting legal decisions to everyday life, a challenge amidst fragmented media consumption.

• International Lessons: Observing other countries' judicial systems can offer valuable insights into safeguarding the U.S. judiciary against authoritarian overreach.

Notable Quotes

• Amber Ruffin on Birthright Citizenship:
  "It’s utterly impractical to switch citizenship in this country away from true birthright citizenship..."
  [02:10 - 04:51]

• Mark Joseph Stern on Public Trust:
  "Public confidence in the US Legal system has plunged... like Myanmar and Venezuela."
  [25:01 - 36:17]

• Amber Ruffin on Supreme Court Legitimacy:
  "Justice Alito is one of the single worst malefactors when it comes to talking about the deep state..."
  [37:30 - 38:05]

This episode of Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick offers a comprehensive examination of the current legal landscape in the United States, highlighting the Supreme Court's profound impact on democracy and civil liberties. Through engaging discussions and listener interactions, Dahlia and Mark underscore the urgent need for public awareness and proactive discourse to uphold the rule of law.