Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick
Episode: How Amy Coney Barrett is Already Making a Mark on the Court
Date: December 19, 2020

Episode Overview

This episode of Amicus delves into the aftermath of the 2020 election, focusing on the role of the legal system in upholding—or undermining—democracy, the persistence of election misinformation, and the early influence of Justice Amy Coney Barrett on the Supreme Court. Host Dahlia Lithwick is joined by Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson and law professor Steve Vladek, both of whom offer expert insight into these seismic shifts in law, policy, and public perception.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jocelyn Benson on Election Integrity and Misinformation (00:41–25:25)

• 2020 Michigan Election Success: Infrastructure & Results

  • Benson reflects that the “system side” of the election in Michigan was exceptionally secure and robust, even with unprecedented turnout and absentee ballots due to the pandemic.
    • "We actually built a system that was able to manage... an election that had more people voting than ever before in our state and more people voting absentee than ever before in our state." (Jocelyn Benson, 04:01)

• Challenges: Misinformation and Voter Confidence

  • While logistical execution went well, the deeper crisis was in the erosion of voter faith, fueled by prominent individuals amplifying false election narratives.
    • “The use of the legal system to try to undermine democracy over these past few weeks has been a corruption of the process and a blasphemous reflection of people's respect for the rule of law.” (Jocelyn Benson, 16:47)

• Counteracting Misinformation: Future Strategies

  • Benson advocates for honest, grassroots conversations with skeptical voters and engagement with non-voters to rebuild trust in democratic processes.
    • “We have to have conversations focused on mutual respect and listening to each other… at the grassroots level, not elected officials, not people with a political agenda.” (Jocelyn Benson, 07:46)

• Rejecting Platforms for Falsehoods

  • Benson explains her refusal to appear before legislative committees she deemed "farcal" and designed only to perpetuate doubt rather than probe facts.
    • “I didn't want to be any part of furthering that platform... I'd much rather take the punches on behalf of protecting people's faith in democracy than use any platform I have to invite spotlight on these conspiracy theories.” (Jocelyn Benson, 10:22)

• Role of Election Administrators & Officials

  • State and local officials, regardless of party, largely performed their duties admirably, reinforcing democracy amid attacks.
    • “Never forget the truth is on our side, that the voters, the vast majority of voters... are on the side of the truth and the facts and the data.” (Jocelyn Benson, 13:36)

• Personal Costs for Election Officials

  • Benson describes the threats faced by herself and other election officers, tying their resolve to protect voting rights to a longer history of resistance and struggle in U.S. civil rights.
    • “What history teaches us is sometimes that does mean you endure hateful rhetoric, violent threats, and even violence itself… but we’re also willing to bear the brunt of the attacks if it means that other people are able to vote.” (Jocelyn Benson, 19:56)

• Looking Forward: Reforms & Priorities

  • For future elections: increased federal investment, more time for absentee ballot processing, refining voter registration and education, and ongoing efforts to counter election misinformation.
    • "There's a lot of productive things we can do to... continue to invest in voter education." (Jocelyn Benson, 22:54)

2. Steve Vladek on DOJ, Supreme Court, and the “Barrett Court” (25:32–52:27)

• Bill Barr’s Departure and DOJ's Future (27:16–33:34)

  • Discussion about the ambiguities around Barr's resignation, the legacy of institutional damage under his tenure, and relief that his immediate successor is unlikely to create further crises.
    • "If folks haven't, they should read Joyce Vance's piece about just how terrible an Attorney General Bill Barr was... just talks a lot about all of the ways in which he damaged the Department of Justice as an institution." (Steve Vladek, 27:52)

• Delays in Announcing Biden’s Attorney General

  • Lithwick and Vladek speculate that uncertainty reflects deep internal debate over how much the new administration will emphasize accountability and institutional repair.
    • “I think that is the hardest pick because that is the Cabinet department that... is in need of the most work and where there’s going to be the longest road.” (Steve Vladek, 31:04)

• Supreme Court’s Shifting Approach to Religion and COVID (33:34–43:29)

  • Vladek identifies Justice Barrett’s arrival as a pivotal moment which reversed prior narrow decisions—this time empowering a bloc favoring religious liberty claims, often via the “shadow docket.”
    • "This to me is the is exhibit A so far of how Amy Coney Barrett has already put her mark on the Supreme Court." (Steve Vladek, 35:04)
    • "The court is basically taking procedural shortcuts through the shadow docket to send messages that they... know they have a majority that wants to send these messages." (Steve Vladek, 41:07)
  • Concerns voiced about the Court aggressively shaping policy through poorly reasoned, unsigned, or summary decisions—potentially undermining clarity and public trust.

• Shadow Docket, Procedural Problems, and Long-Term Effects

  • Discussion of the dangers posed by using shadow docket cases (emergency rulings, often unsigned, with little reasoning) as precedent for lower courts, leading to confusion and erosion of procedural rigor.
    • “The court is starting to embrace them... I guess I have two sets of problems with that. One is, I actually think it's a real issue on the merits. But two... it's hard to explain to the layperson why that's so offensive as an exercise of judicial power, but it is really.” (Steve Vladek, 38:34)

• Voting Rights, Election Law, and the Court's Direction

  • Despite claims that institutions “held” during election litigation, Vladek and Lithwick caution that the Overton window around election law has shifted alarmingly, with risk of more judicial and legislative hostility to voting access in the future.
    • “If the larger project... was to just foment so much doubt in the elections process that the courts might be willing... to hear cases... that have no merit, but a lot of people think they have merit, and maybe that’s enough now.” (Dahlia Lithwick, 47:10)
    • “I think the only reason why it's not going to look like they're moving backwards is because the rest of us are moving backwards so much faster. And so the relative speed is going to be positive.” (Steve Vladek, 44:53)
  • Warns that the next battleground will be post-election legislative “reforms” to restrict voting, with little hope for a strong judicial counterweight.

• Federal Reform and the Role of Congress

  • Concludes that robust federal action is the most likely path to safeguard voting rights, assuming political will and procedural hurdles (like the filibuster) can be overcome.
    • “The only real counterweight here and the only potential solution is federal reform, where you have Congress preempting at the federal level state efforts to restrict these ideals.” (Steve Vladek, 48:12)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Corruption of the Legal System:

  • “The use of the legal system to try to undermine democracy over these past few weeks has been a corruption of the process and a blasphemous reflection of people's respect for the rule of law.”
    — Jocelyn Benson (16:47)

• On Truth and the Role of Civil Servants:

  • “Never forget the truth is on our side... It’s our job to protect and defend that. And that ethos, I think, pervades election administrators.”
    — Jocelyn Benson (13:36)

• On Amy Coney Barrett’s Impact:

  • “This to me is exhibit A so far of how Amy Coney Barrett has already put her mark on the Supreme Court.”
    — Steve Vladek (35:04)
  • “The court is basically taking procedural shortcuts through the shadow docket to send messages...”
    — Steve Vladek (41:07)

• On the Need for Restoring Trust in Democracy:

  • “We have to all be working with the same set of facts, and we can disagree on what to do about the problems that the facts illustrate, but we have to work from the same set of facts.”
    — Jocelyn Benson (10:22)

• On the Dangers of Moving Norms in Election Law:

  • “The only reason why it's not going to look like they're moving backwards [on voting rights] is because the rest of us are moving backwards so much faster.”
    — Steve Vladek (44:53)

Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:41–25:25: Interview with Jocelyn Benson (Michigan) — Election 2020, misinformation, restoring trust, and personal costs of public service.
• 25:32–52:27: Interview with Steve Vladek — Bill Barr’s resignation, Supreme Court’s COVID/religious liberty shift, Amy Coney Barrett’s influence, shadow docket problems, and state/federal voting rights battles.

Episode Tone & Takeaway

The tone is both analytical and urgent, mixing hope about the enduring commitment of democratic servants with grave concern about the pervasiveness of misinformation and the shifting landscape of the law. Both interviews blend expert knowledge with direct, personal experience and a dash of humor, staying accessible while underscoring the stakes for American democracy.

Listeners come away with a sobering picture of a court already changed by Justice Barrett, a legal system at risk of further partisan misuse, and a call to ground political debate and reform in facts rather than cynical doubt.