Podcast Summary: Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, Justice, and the Courts

Episode Title: How To Build A Police State (With The Supreme Court’s Blessing)
Release Date: July 19, 2025
Host: Dahlia Lithwick
Guest: Aaron Reichland Melnick, Senior Fellow and Former Policy Director at the American Immigration Council

Introduction: The Supreme Court's Evolving Role in Immigration

Dahlia Lithwick opens the episode by highlighting the Supreme Court's significant influence over national policies, particularly in immigration. She underscores the Court's shift towards remote operations and critiques the lack of ceremonial courtroom proceedings, questioning the necessity of maintaining physical courtrooms when significant legal decisions are made in more detached settings.

Dahlia Lithwick [00:02]: "Why they require a ceremonial courtroom at 1 First Street in the first instance, if doing law by fiat can be so easily dispensed from a first class cabin."

Lithwick introduces the main topic: the Supreme Court's conservative supermajority's decision to lift a blockade on former President Donald Trump's plan to eliminate the Department of Education. She criticizes the lack of majority reasoning, relying instead on dissenting opinions that express "fury and frustration."

Justice Sonia Sotomayor [Dissent, Time Stamp Not Available]: "A grave threat to the separation of powers and the majority's willingness to reward clear defiance of the Constitution."

Section 1: Changes in Immigration Enforcement

Lithwick brings back Aaron Reichland Melnick to discuss the significant shifts in immigration enforcement over the past six months. Melnick outlines two primary changes:

1. Increased Manpower through Reassignment:

   • Thousands of federal agents from agencies like the FBI, DEA, ATF, U.S. Marshals Service, U.S. Postal Inspection Service, and IRS's financial crimes investigators have been reassigned to bolster ICE's capabilities.

2. Shift from Targeted to Mass Enforcement:

   • Under the influence of Stephen Miller, the focus has shifted from targeted arrests to prioritizing the quantity of arrests. This change has led to more aggressive raids and operational tactics reminiscent of the 1960s and 1970s INS practices.

Aaron Reichland Melnick [04:35]: "So from now on, it's about quantity over quality."

He details the uptick in workplace raids, such as increased I-9 audits and random inspections of businesses like restaurants and nail salons, regardless of prior investigations. This broad approach contrasts with ICE's traditional method of targeting individuals from a pre-existing list of undocumented immigrants.

Section 2: Impact on Communities and Chilling Effects

The discussion transitions to the broader societal impacts of these enforcement changes. Melnick explains how aggressive immigration tactics are instilling fear within immigrant communities, leading to decreased participation in public life.

Aaron Reichland Melnick [24:37]: "There are measurable drops in school enrollments in people going to work in public transit."

He emphasizes that while the number of arrests remains a small fraction (<0.5%) of the undocumented population in areas like Los Angeles County, the pervasive fear is driving self-deportation and reducing community engagement.

Section 3: Financial Implications and the Emergence of a Police State

Melnick delves into the financial aspects, revealing that Trump's budget allocated $170.7 billion for immigration enforcement and border security, with $75 billion specifically for ICE operations. This massive funding surge enables the expansion of detention facilities and the procurement of additional deportation flights.

Aaron Reichland Melnick [29:43]: "It's $170.7 billion for immigration enforcement and border security."

He illustrates how these funds could increase ICE's detention capabilities to over 116,000 individuals daily, approaching the scale of the Federal Bureau of Prisons. The creation of "soft-sided" detention facilities, which are quickly assembled and highly expensive to operate, further entrenches the infrastructure of a police state.

Section 4: Deportations to Third Countries

The conversation shifts to the controversial practice of deporting individuals to third countries, bypassing their home nations. Melnick outlines the legal framework under the Immigration and Nationality Act that allows such deportations when returning to the home country is deemed "impractical or inadvisable."

Aaron Reichland Melnick [46:37]: "These third country removals in the past were usually heavily negotiated and involved assurances on both sides about fair treatment."

However, he criticizes the current administration's approach as lacking humanitarian safeguards, leading to "chain refoulement," where deportees are sent to intermediary countries without protections, violating international norms.

Aaron Reichland Melnick [50:42]: "The Supreme Court just, in an unexplained order, simply said, go ahead, you guys get to do this."

He provides examples of Eswatini and South Sudan, where deportees face imprisonment without due process, highlighting the moral and legal failures of this policy.

Section 5: High-Profile Cases and Judicial Resistance

Lithwick brings attention to specific cases that exemplify the administration's disregard for court orders, such as the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case. Melnick explains that Garcia was mistakenly deported to Sukkot, El Salvador, without proper due process, leading to his wrongful imprisonment.

Aaron Reichland Melnick [41:48]: "Mr. Abrego Garcia was sent to Sukkot by accident. The government acknowledges they shouldn't have sent him there. It was an administrative error."

The case underscores the systemic issues within immigration enforcement and the judiciary's struggle to uphold due process amidst aggressive deportation strategies.

Section 6: The Supreme Court and Birthright Citizenship

In the closing segment, Lithwick addresses concerns about the Supreme Court's stance on birthright citizenship. Referencing expert opinions and recent rulings, Melnick expresses confidence that the Court will uphold birthright citizenship despite growing skepticism.

Aaron Reichland Melnick [54:08]: "I still think that the Supreme Court is going to uphold birthright citizenship and I don't think it's going to be a 5-4 decision. It is just so clear."

He warns that overturning established precedents would signal a drastic shift in legal protections, rendering existing laws unreliable.

Conclusion: The Road Ahead

Dahlia Lithwick concludes the episode by reaffirming the importance of understanding and monitoring the Supreme Court's decisions on immigration. She acknowledges Melnick's insights and emphasizes the ongoing struggle to protect immigrant rights amidst evolving legal and political landscapes.

Notable Quotes:

• Dahlia Lithwick [00:02]: "Why they require a ceremonial courtroom at 1 First Street in the first instance, if doing law by fiat can be so easily dispensed from a first class cabin."

• Aaron Reichland Melnick [04:35]: "So from now on, it's about quantity over quality."

• Aaron Reichland Melnick [24:37]: "There are measurable drops in school enrollments in people going to work in public transit."

• Aaron Reichland Melnick [29:43]: "It's $170.7 billion for immigration enforcement and border security."

• Aaron Reichland Melnick [50:42]: "The Supreme Court just, in an unexplained order, simply said, go ahead, you guys get to do this."

• Aaron Reichland Melnick [54:08]: "I still think that the Supreme Court is going to uphold birthright citizenship and I don't think it's going to be a 5-4 decision. It is just so clear."

This episode provides a comprehensive overview of the current state of immigration enforcement in the United States, highlighting the Supreme Court's pivotal role, the aggressive tactics employed by federal agencies, and the profound impact on immigrant communities. Aaron Reichland Melnick's expertise offers listeners an in-depth analysis of the challenges and potential future developments in immigration law and policy.