Podcast Summary: Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Episode: “Justice Breyer, In His Own Words”

Date: December 22, 2020
Host: Dahlia Lithwick
Guest: Justice Stephen Breyer

Overview

This episode is part of Slate’s “80 Over 80” series and offers a candid, personal conversation between Dahlia Lithwick and Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer. Rather than focusing solely on judicial philosophy, the interview highlights Justice Breyer’s reflections on aging, cooperation, remote work during COVID-19, the value of humility, and life lessons acquired over eight decades. The tone is warm and insightful, with meaningful anecdotes and practical wisdom.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Lessons from Experience and Advice to Younger Generations

• Breyer on Political Cooperation (01:11):

  • Shares advice learned from Senator Ted Kennedy about the importance of incremental progress and eschewing personal glory.
  • Quote: “The best is the enemy of the good. ...If you have a choice between, you know, achieving 20 or 30% of what you'd like on the one hand, or being the hero of all your friends on the other hand, choose the first. We're not here just to make speeches...” (Justice Breyer, 01:17)
  • Emphasizes that giving credit to others and focusing on collaboration leads to trust and future agreements.

• On Credit and Teamwork (02:00):

  • Discusses the dangers of seeking credit, describing it as a “weapon,” and advises giving others the credit for successful outcomes.
  • Quote: "Credit is a weapon. You give the other person the credit...that builds confidence and makes agreement easier the next time. So, hey, don't worry about it. If you succeed, there'll be plenty of credit to go around. And if you don't, who wants the credit?” (Justice Breyer, 02:23)

2. Reflections on Aging

• Justice Breyer acknowledges that people often become more irritable as they age, but delivers this insight with a sense of humor and self-awareness.
  • Quote: “Yes. But also as you get older, you get more irritable.” (Justice Breyer, 03:36)
  • The exchange is light and relatable, as Dahlia admits that she, too, feels that way—prompting laughter and mutual understanding.

3. On Grief and Justice Ginsburg’s Passing

• (03:52): Dahlia expresses condolences for Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg's passing, recognizing the added difficulty during the pandemic. The conversation briefly acknowledges the personal and emotional toll of losing a close colleague.

4. Admitting and Learning from Mistakes

• Breyer’s Self-Assessment (04:35):
  • Openly discusses mistakes: being “terrible at investing” and, more importantly, the persistent error of “worrying about us,” or dwelling on past outcomes instead of moving forward.
  • Quote: “Whatever happened, happened, and we move on from there. And it's a continuous mistake, too, and I know it is, and it's hard to stop yourself from doing it. But stop. I know that.” (Justice Breyer, 04:40)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Choosing Collaboration Over Heroics:

  • “If you have a choice between achieving 20 or 30% of what you'd like ... or being the hero of your friends ... choose the first. We're not here just to make speeches.” (Justice Breyer, 01:17)

• On Giving Credit:

  • “Credit is a weapon. ...That builds confidence and makes agreement easier the next time. So, hey, don't worry about it.” (Justice Breyer, 02:23)

• On Aging and Irritability (Humorous Exchange):

  • “As you get older, you get more irritable.” – Justice Breyer, 03:36
  • “Not you, though.” – Dahlia Lithwick, 03:40
  • “Oh, no. ...I'm telling you for the last time...” – Justice Breyer, 03:41

• On Grief and Mistakes:

  • “Whatever happened, happened, and we move on from there.” (Justice Breyer, 04:40)

Key Timestamps

• 01:11: Breyer begins to share advice drawn from Senator Kennedy on cooperation and incremental progress.
• 02:23: Memorable discussion about giving credit to others and the impact it has on building trust.
• 03:36–03:52: Lighthearted reflections on aging and irritable tendencies.
• 03:52: Acknowledgment of Justice Ginsburg’s passing and its impact during COVID-19.
• 04:35: Breyer discusses personal mistakes and the challenge of not dwelling on the past.

Conclusion

This episode provides a rare glimpse into Justice Stephen Breyer's wit, humility, and lifelong dedication to consensus and public service. Listeners come away with not just professional insights but also valuable life lessons: the importance of cooperation, humility, and moving forward—wisdom as relevant in law as it is to everyday life.