Transcript
A (0:09)
This is Amicus, Slate's podcast about the courts, the law and the Supreme Court. I'm Mark Joseph Stern with an extra amicus outside of our regular schedule. This past weekend, Donald Trump, who ran for re election on a promise of no new wars, started a new war with Iran, bombing the Islamic Republic in a joint campaign with Israel dubbed Operation Epic Fury. Among President Trump's many stated goals was regime change. And Israel got the ball rolling by quickly taking out the Republic's 86 year old supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, in a strike. What comes next is, to put it mildly, not so clear. Iran has launched retaliatory strikes across the Middle East. As of this taping, four American service members have been killed and Trump has said there will be, quote, likely more American deaths to come. The Iranian red Crescent says 555 people have been killed in Iran and in Israel, at least 11 people have been killed. One question hanging over all this, of course, is whether any of it is legal. And that's why we are bringing you this extra edition of Amicus. There may be a temptation to say that the is it even legal? Question doesn't matter, which is what Harvard law professor Jack Goldsmith declared in an article titled law is irrelevant to the US Attack on Iran. Maybe so, but my guest today does not agree that a shruggy emoji is the correct legal response to this war of aggression. So we're going to explore how the president is breaking the law, why it matters, and further, does it matter if ordinary Americans believe this war is legal or not? Eugene Fidel, a visiting lecturer and senior research scholar at Yale Law School and expert on the law of armed conflict, joins me now to discuss whether international law or the Constitution still matter when America goes to war. Gene, welcome back to Amicus.
B (2:12)
It's great to be here.
A (2:13)
The attack on Iran has been prosecuted in a way that clearly shows a president who feels unconstrained in his power to wage war. I think few would deny that, that Trump has called it a war. He has said casualties so far are, well, just too bad, and has said that it'll go on for four weeks, maybe more, maybe less. But the president, any president, is, at least in terms of black letter law and the US Constitution, restricted in this realm. Or so I had thought. I guess I just like to start with you setting the table for us in terms of those legal constraints. Whenever we're talking about the law of war, there seem to be three layers of restrictions on the President, federal statutes, the Constitution, international law. Can we Maybe start with the constitutional layer of the sandwich. Because under the Constitution, does the President have the power to declare war?
B (3:06)
The answer, of course, is no. The Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution has always provided that the power to declare war is vested in Congress. You either have a declaration of war, we haven't had one since the day after Pearl harbor, or you have the equivalent, which is an authorization for the use of military force. We've had a few of those. We've also had a lot of attacks that the government, the administration of both parties, by the way, from both parties, have claimed were not war in the constitutional sense because they were extremely short lived, extremely limited, low horsepower, low firepower operations. You could debate some, if not all of those, but the basic concept in the Constitution is that it is for the Congress to declare war. And by the way, not the Gang of Eight, not the leadership, the Congress as a whole.
