Episode Overview

Podcast: Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, justice, and the courts
Episode: Sneak Preview: The RFK Jr Ballot Mess in North Carolina Was Just the Beginning
Date: October 2, 2024
Main Theme:
This midweek, early-release bonus episode spotlights the legal and electoral turbulence triggered by the Robert F. Kennedy Jr. ballot case in North Carolina. Host Dahlia Lithwick and Slate’s Mark Joseph Stern interview Justice Allison Riggs, Associate Justice of the North Carolina Supreme Court, diving into the immediate local impacts of climate disasters on elections, the complexities of running fair elections amid such crises, and the dangerous precedent set by recent judicial rulings that upend established norms and procedures.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Welcome and Context for the Conversation

• [00:00–01:54] Dahlia Lithwick, Mark Joseph Stern, Justice Riggs
  • The episode was released early due to the urgent importance of the discussed issues.
  • Justice Riggs is introduced as both a sitting justice and a candidate seeking to retain her seat, with a prior record as a voting rights litigator.
  • Constraints on judicial speech during campaigns are acknowledged.

2. The Human Impact of Recent Catastrophic Flooding in Western North Carolina

• [02:12–03:20] Justice Riggs
  • Riggs details the severe devastation in about 25 western counties:
    • Disrupted infrastructure, inaccessible Internet/cell service, and unsafe water.
    • These are already under-resourced counties now facing a “catastrophic” rebuilding job.
  • Emphasizes the community’s resilience and the continued efforts to aid those displaced.

Memorable Quote:

“There is either major disruption to infrastructure, inability to get Internet and cell service and questionable water. And those are sort of the basics. ... These are counties that are not well invested in to begin with. So rebuilding is going to take some time.”
— Justice Riggs [02:38]

3. Challenges of Conducting Elections Amid Disasters and the “New Normal”

• [03:20–07:08] Dahlia Lithwick, Justice Riggs
  • The current disaster is overlaid with the logistical difficulties of conducting elections—elections now increasingly occur amid climate-fueled catastrophic events.
  • The RFK Jr. ballot case had already delayed absentee voting by nearly three weeks before the floods compounded issues.
  • Riggs asserts that NC election officials are seasoned in crisis management but stresses the need for much greater investment and public trust in the system.
  • Warns against the erosion of faith in election administrators—demonization since 2020 has impaired support and resources.
  • Highlights the upcoming early voting date (Oct 17) and infrastructure challenges that may persist.
  • Pleads for making voting easier for affected mountain communities and avoiding further bureaucratic hardships.

Notable Quote:

“It does raise the question more broadly... we need to support election administration. It’s money. It’s trust and faith. It’s not interfering with the important work of democracy. ... We need to fund them. They are run and paid for largely at the local level.”
— Justice Riggs [05:27]

Memorable Image:

“There’s going to be roads that are still down and blocked... making sure that we can offer, make voting as easy as possible for folks. ... The resiliency runs deep. And also... we need to not make life harder for voters out there.”
— Justice Riggs [06:26]

4. The RFK Jr. Ballot Case: Legal Reasoning, Process, and Dissent

• [07:08–10:53] Mark Joseph Stern, Justice Riggs
  • North Carolina’s ballots were thrown into chaos due to last-minute litigation over Robert F. Kennedy Jr’s request to withdraw his name.
  • Justice Riggs explains:
    • Kennedy, after suspending his campaign in some states, sought to remove his name from the NC ballot—after ballots were printed.
    • The Board of Elections declined his request; a trial judge (Republican) upheld that decision.
    • The Court of Appeals overruled, ordering removal of Kennedy’s name and forcing ballots to be reprinted, days after absentee ballots were to be mailed.
    • This was affirmed in a 4–3 North Carolina Supreme Court ruling.
  • The ruling caused an almost three-week delay for overseas absentee voters and a severe strain on county-level election administration.
  • Justice Riggs’ dissent:
    • Stresses the statutory obligation to weigh administrative burden and practical realities.
    • Elevating individual “free speech” concerns (i.e., Kennedy’s right not to confuse voters) above the collective right to accessible absentee voting was, in her view, “very uneven.”
    • Riggs highlights not just the monetary cost, but the hidden labor and stress on election officials close to the election.
    • She calls the decision “a sad day for our state judiciary.”

Notable Quotes:

“I dissented in part because I think the statutory language is plain. When we are that close to an election, the State Board of Elections has to balance the equities of what’s going to impede the administration of elections: the cost, the time, and their perspective...”
— Justice Riggs [09:19]

“It really bothered me that we were elevating the free speech interests of one man over the constitutional interests of access to absentee voting, which makes voting easier. It felt very uneven in that and so I dissented.”
— Justice Riggs [10:13]

Key Takeaway:

• The decision underscores the dangers of judicial intervention in election administration at the last minute, eroding statutory stability and risking voter disenfranchisement for the benefit of high-profile plaintiffs.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The devastation has been catastrophic in western North Carolina, probably in about 25 counties.”
  — Justice Riggs [02:38]

• “Election officials are really good at dealing with emergencies. Which is not to say we shouldn’t support them and have their back, but they are really good.”
  — Justice Riggs [04:57]

• “It does raise the question more broadly... we need to support election administration. It’s money. It’s trust and faith.”
  — Justice Riggs [05:27]

• “We were elevating the free speech interests of one man over the constitutional interests of access to absentee voting.”
  — Justice Riggs [10:13]

• “It was a sad day for our state judiciary.”
  — Justice Riggs [10:50]

Key Timestamps

• [02:38] — Justice Riggs details the scale of flooding devastation in 25 counties.
• [04:32] — How climate change is making disaster-driven election disruption the new normal.
• [05:27] — Call for more trust, faith, and funding for election administration.
• [07:28] — Riggs summarizes the facts and majority reasoning in the RFK Jr. ballot case.
• [09:19–10:50] — Riggs’ dissent: balancing election administration burdens, statutory clarity, and constitutional rights.

Conclusion

This episode gives listeners a rare, inside perspective on the interwoven challenges of electoral administration, climate disaster, and partisan judicial interventions in North Carolina—a state dubbed a “bellwether” for the nation. Justice Riggs’s candid, measured insights amplify the stakes: stable, well-funded, and respected election systems are essential bulwarks of democracy, especially as disasters of all kinds become the “new normal.”

To hear the entire extended interview with Justice Riggs, listeners are invited to subscribe to Slate Plus.