Podcast Summary: Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, Justice, and the Courts
Episode Title: The DOJ's Prosecutorial Malpractice Keeps Spilling Out in Court
Air date: November 22, 2025
Host: Dahlia Lithwick
Guest: Mimi Rocha (former District Attorney, former Assistant U.S. Attorney, legal commentator)

Overview

In this episode, Dahlia Lithwick is joined by legal expert and former federal prosecutor Mimi Rocha for an in-depth examination of systemic failures at the Department of Justice under the Trump administration. The conversation centers on the ongoing repercussions of Jeffrey Epstein's case, the politicized handling of legal investigations, and the DOJ’s increasingly brazen prosecutorial missteps—culminating in courtroom showdowns that expose widespread dysfunction and vindictiveness at the very heart of the federal justice system. Together, Lithwick and Rocha dissect the impact of these failures on survivors, the legal profession, and the foundational norms of American democracy.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why the Epstein Files Still Matter

• [04:17–11:12]
• Rocha outlines the profound importance of recent efforts to release Jeffrey Epstein’s files—not only for survivors, but for public trust in the possibility of legal accountability.
  • Quote [05:15, Rocha]:
    "This isn't just about the process and the files... it's also about... empowering [survivors] and feeling like they have some power and frankly, giving everybody who is not happy with the way government is going... a feeling like there is a way to take some control back and take some power back."
• The conversation highlights how the real legal story should focus on the survivors, not the famous (and infamous) names caught in the orbit of Epstein's crimes.
  • Quote [08:37, Rocha]:
    “This isn't about Donald Trump... All five of these administrations failed us because there was no real accountability.”

2. Systemic, Institutional Failures in Justice

• [11:12–14:18]
• Lithwick and Rocha emphasize society’s pattern of focusing on the downfall of powerful men (“the fall of the great man”) versus the long-term trauma and neglect suffered by victims.
• Rocha notes the historical treatment of victims of sex crimes as complicit rather than as true victims, illuminating deep-seated biases in the legal system.

3. DOJ’s Politicization Under Trump: The Epstein “Investigation”

• [14:18–23:19]
• The episode details President Trump’s direct involvement in instructing his Attorney General, Pam Bondi, to order investigations into only certain—primarily Democratic—figures named in Epstein’s emails.
  • Quote [18:34, Lithwick]:
    "It's fascinating to me, Mimi, that only a few states over, we have the Justice Department saying, what? We don't do vindictive prosecutions. We what? And here's Trump saying, these are the names of the people I would like you to go after."
• Rocha calls this not only highly irregular, but “completely inappropriate,” undermining any objective standard for federal investigations.
  • Quote [14:18, Rocha]:
    “It is absolutely... inappropriate doesn’t even do it. Once again, Donald Trump is directing an investigation.”

4. Pressure, Compliance, and Resistance Inside U.S. Attorney’s Offices

• [19:35–23:19]
• Rocha describes pressures on U.S. Attorneys—including Jay Clayton (SDNY) and others—when confronted with directives from political appointees.
• Questions raised about whether career prosecutors will resist improper directives, as with the refusal to support questionable indictments, or whether political concerns will carry the day.
  • Quote [19:35, Rocha]:
    “Jay Clayton is, you know, he's a real lawyer... but he's never been a prosecutor... And I'm sure that they are advising him, whether he will take that or not.”

5. The Maureen Comey Firing—Retaliation and Precedent

• [25:57–28:28]
• Lithwick asks for background on Maureen Comey, a respected prosecutor who was summarily fired after high-profile prosecutions, with no cause given.
• Rocha underscores the chilling impact on DOJ morale, advancement, and willingness of prosecutors to dissent.

6. DOJ’s Sham Proffers and Ghislaine Maxwell

• [28:28–34:36]
• Rocha deconstructs the unprecedented and improper handling of Ghislaine Maxwell’s “proffer” session by Deputy AG Todd Blanche, which failed entirely to meaningfully interrogate Maxwell about crucial evidence.
  • Quote [29:34, Rocha]:
    “Todd’s so-called proffer... was not a proffer at all... He was not trying to [get at the truth].”
  • Quote [34:36, Rocha]:
    "He was acting as Trump's attorney there, not as everybody's Trump's attorney."

7. The Farce of the James Comey Prosecution

• [34:36–44:34]
• Lithwick and Rocha break down the recent, slapdash prosecution of former FBI Director James Comey in Virginia:

  • Replacement of a respected U.S. Attorney by a Trump loyalist, Lindsey Halligan, with no prosecutorial background.

  • Halligan enters the grand jury alone because career prosecutors refuse to participate.

  • Indictment full of mistakes; grand jury improperly instructed; legal standards not met.

  • Multiple procedural and substantive errors could result in dismissal for vindictive prosecution.

  • Quote [35:46, Rocha]:
    "There are so many things wrong with how the indictment was obtained that started to become apparent immediately..."

  • Quote [44:34, Rocha]:
    "Three main things to highlight here: original career prosecutors saying don't, very legally erroneous instructions, and a very sloppy at best and possibly just totally defective indictment."

8. Judicial Backlash and the Erosion of Trust in DOJ

• [49:08–56:31]
• Lithwick notes a wave of judicial skepticism: courts across the country now regularly question the honesty and reliability of DOJ lawyers.
  • Quote [51:38, Rocha]:
    "That integrity is so hard to earn and so easy to lose. And this is not just the integrity of one person. This is the integrity of the entire department."
• Judges are no longer presuming good faith from government attorneys as evidence of misrepresentation and arbitrariness mounts.
  • Federal judges grill DOJ lawyers in open court about the existence of “declination memos” and efforts to hide the shaky basis for prosecutions.

9. The Damage—and Glimmers of Hope

• [56:31–58:28]

• Both express that while DOJ’s reputation is taking a “mortal blow,” the exposure of misconduct and judicial pushback is necessary.

• Upholding truth and legal regularity are the short-term priorities—even if rebuilding institutional trust will take a generation.

  • Quote [57:50, Lithwick]:
    "...this is a mortal blow to the Justice Department. ...the thing we have to protect right now is the truth."
  • Quote [57:50, Rocha]:
    "The safeguards that we have in our justice system to protect innocent people... are part of what you see peeking through with the judges, with prosecutors who use their good judgment and discretion..."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On survivors’ voices:
  • [05:15, Rocha]
    "This isn't just about the process and the files... it's also about empowering them and feeling like they have some power... it comes from community."
• On institutional betrayal:
  • [08:37, Rocha]
    "...all five of these administrations failed us because there was no real accountability."
• On Trump’s misuse of DOJ:
  • [14:18, Rocha]
    "How absolutely... inappropriate doesn’t even do it. Once again, Donald Trump is directing an investigation."
• On internal DOJ resistance:
  • [35:46, Rocha]
    "Many of us were surprised that an indictment was obtained... The prosecutors... said there is not a case here to bring."
• On grand jury irregularities:
  • [44:31, Rocha]
    "She instructed the grand jury... that Comey will have to testify at trial... absolutely not... the kind of error that at a trial, the judge would cut you off immediately."
• On lost trust in DOJ:
  • [51:38, Rocha]
    "...integrity is so hard to earn and so easy to lose... you knew when you walked in and you said, I am so and so representing the government... what you said carried credibility."

Timestamps for Important Segments

• The Importance of the Epstein Files and Survivors’ Empowerment: 04:17–11:12
• Systemic Legal Failures & Refocusing Away from Powerful Men: 11:12–14:18
• Political Manipulation of Investigations & DOJ Complicity: 14:18–23:19
• Maureen Comey's Firing and Chilling Effect: 25:57–28:28
• Improper Proffer with Ghislaine Maxwell: 28:28–34:36
• Collapse of Regular Prosecutorial Standards in Comey Prosecution: 34:36–44:34
• Judges Lose Faith in DOJ; Courts Push Back: 49:08–56:31
• Future of DOJ; The Role of Truth & Hope for Reform: 56:31–58:28

Tone and Final Takeaways

Maintaining a sober and incredulous tone, Lithwick and Rocha blend technical legal analysis with visceral dismay at how far the DOJ has strayed from its foundational role. Their message is clear: Though the system has been battered by politicization, vindictiveness, and incompetence at its highest levels, the collective resolve of survivors, principled prosecutors, judges, and advocates for truth still offers hope for accountability and institutional renewal.

For listeners seeking a summary:
This episode tackles the intersection of systemic failure in the DOJ, the impact of survivor testimony, political corruption, and the crucial role of both internal and judicial resistance in defending the rule of law and democratic norms.