Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, Justice, and the Courts

Episode: The Fast Track To Autocracy
Air Date: January 3, 2026
Host: Dahlia Lithwick
Guest: Kim Lane Scheppele (Professor of Sociology and International Affairs at Princeton, author of the forthcoming Destroying Democracy by Law)

Episode Overview

This essential Amicus episode revisits one of the podcast’s most significant interviews: a conversation with legal sociologist and autocracy expert Kim Lane Scheppele. Amid the chaos and rapid transformation in the United States during Trump’s second term, Scheppele provides crucial historical and comparative context to what many see as an alarming slide toward autocracy. With references to Hungary, Russia, and other nations, she dissects Trump's strategies, the use and abuse of law, and what Americans can—and must—do to resist democratic backsliding.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The New Normal of Rapid Autocratic Change

• Setting: The episode opens with context: one year into Trump’s second term, just days before the fifth anniversary of January 6, and following mass clemency for Capitol riot defendants ([02:00]).
• Lithwick notes both the exhaustion and confusion gripping Americans as a flood of executive orders upends social and governmental norms.

2. Autocracy’s Playbook: Lessons from Abroad

• Scheppele draws on her experiences living in Hungary and Russia, emphasizing that modern autocracy typically follows free and fair elections, and uses the law itself to entrench power ([07:48]).

  "Unfortunately, what we're seeing here is so similar to what happened in Russia and particularly to what happened in Hungary." — Kim Lane Scheppele [07:48]

• She explains the importance of looking beyond the daily chaos (attacks on marginalized groups, executive order spectacles) to see the systematic dismantling of checks on executive power.

3. The Law as a Weapon

• Trump’s first term battered norms but didn’t fundamentally change the legal infrastructure—except for the Supreme Court. Scheppele asserts that, drawing on the lessons of Viktor Orbán, Trump returned with a team ready to use law as a tool of executive entrenchment ([10:00]).
  • “What Viktor Orban did and what now Donald Trump has done is… use their time out of office to put together a team of people who will write all the laws you need to entrench yourself.” — KLS [10:59]
• Private groups and lawyers (Project 2025, Heritage Foundation) prepared a ready-made legislative and executive blueprint for consolidating power ([11:30]).

4. Dual Buckets: Distraction and Entrenchment

• Lithwick suggests categorizing the avalanche of orders: some create chaos and distractions, while the most dangerous systematically fortify executive authority ([12:24]).

  “That bucket of distraction is also actually harming people.” — KLS [13:10]

• Examples from Hungary: firing and terrorizing the civil service, defunding the press, universities, and civil society—moves now echoed in the US ([13:50]).

5. Defining Democracy and Autocracy

• Lithwick asks for clear definitions.

  “Democracy is about future free and fair elections, and not just about the last one.” — KLS [18:07]

• Autocracy, in contrast, is “a government in which power no longer rotates and in which it's no longer accountable to anybody outside the executive branch” ([19:09]).

  “All these autocrats go on having elections…” — KLS [20:10]

6. Legal Manipulation: How Law Becomes the Problem

• The episode traces how the very structures (Constitution, courts) once seen as bulwarks against tyranny can be subverted:

  “Hitler came to power lawfully, Stalin did a lot of things by law. So the question was, what was wrong with that picture?” — KLS [24:34]

• In the U.S., decades of conservative legal advocacy—textualism, originalism—created a malleable Constitution now susceptible to executive abuse ([25:30]).

7. The Supreme Court’s Role in Enabling Autocracy

• Trump’s capture of the Supreme Court means it no longer reliably serves as a check on executive power.

  “What if that's not so solid anymore? It's like leaning against a wall and suddenly you discover the wall collapses.” — KLS [31:00]

• Past democratic fail-safes—case law, judicial independence—can be overridden, as in Hungary and Russia. U.S. progressives may need to develop “shadow jurisprudence” and lean on popular, not just technical, understandings of constitutional law ([32:00]).

8. Speed and Style: The Fast Track to Autocracy

• The current wave is “fast autocracy”—multiple executive orders, rapid restructuring, with the courts acting as an implicit (or complicit) constituent assembly ([36:05]).
  • U.S. legal complexity and federalism offer some resistance, but each “round” of power consolidates further, making even future non-autocratic governments unable to govern effectively ([37:40]).

  “It may take several rounds… Even if you can get rid of the autocrat, you never can govern as a Democrat ever again because some of the institutions are compromised.” — KLS [39:18]

9. The Function of Performative Cruelty

• Lithwick and Scheppele discuss “performative cruelty”—the visible targeting of trans people, immigrants, death row inmates, and others to both distract and instill fear:

  “This is about removing all restraints. It's like the legal permission for mansplaining writ large.” — KLS [44:09]

  • Cruelty, arbitrariness, and unpredictability breed generalized fear, which inhibits resistance ([45:50]).

10. Resistance: Slowing Down the Slide

• Lithwick: Despite the complexity, some Americans are awakening to the importance of functioning government ([47:02]).

  “People wanted government to be responsive. They didn't want it to become a dictatorship.” — KLS [48:21]

• Scheppele’s guidance ([52:16]):
  • Hold onto “toeholds” (state and local governments, civil organizations)
  • Use litigation to slow down autocratic moves—even if SCOTUS won’t ultimately block them
  • Support independent media and institutions
  • Resist at every point, creating friction—“think of yourself as being like that guy in Tiananmen Square… Whatever it is that you can do personally to just slow it down, just stop it locally, just do it.” — KLS [55:18]
• Lithwick adds: keep your heart soft and avoid isolation; solidarity is crucial.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |---------------|-------------|-----------| | 07:48 | KLS | “Unfortunately, what we're seeing here is so similar to what happened in Russia and particularly to what happened in Hungary.” | | 10:59 | KLS | "What Viktor Orban did and what now Donald Trump has done is… use their time out of office to put together a team of people who will write all the laws you need to entrench yourself." | | 13:10 | KLS | “That bucket of distraction is also actually harming people.” | | 18:07 | KLS | “Democracy is about future free and fair elections, and not just about the last one.” | | 19:09 | KLS | “A government in which power no longer rotates and in which it's no longer accountable to anybody outside the executive branch.” | | 24:34 | KLS | “Hitler came to power lawfully, Stalin did a lot of things by law. So the question was, what was wrong with that picture?” | | 31:00 | KLS | “It's like leaning against a wall and suddenly you discover the wall collapses.” | | 39:18 | KLS | “Even if you can get rid of the autocrat, you never can govern as a Democrat ever again because some of the institutions are compromised.” | | 44:09 | KLS | “It's like the legal permission for mansplaining writ large.” | | 48:21 | KLS | “People wanted government to be responsive. They didn't want it to become a dictatorship.” | | 52:16, 55:18 | KLS | “Everything that this administration does now that is bringing down democracy and causing pain should be met with friction. You may not be able to stop it, but you can slow it down.”<br>“Whatever it is that you can do personally to just slow it down, just stop it locally, just do it.” | | 55:26 | Lithwick | “To keep your heart soft so that you can see suffering for what it is… And to not be alone.” | | 56:28 | KLS | “We have to have some hope, right? Because and we have to have each other.” |

Recommended Actions & Closing Thoughts

• Lean Into Uncaptured Territory: Support and strengthen state-level governments and independent civil society organizations.
• Create Friction: Slowing autocracy isn’t about immediate victories but about buying time and creating resistance at every level.
• Support Media and Public Institutions: Subscription, funding, and activism help keep independent voices alive.
• Solidarity & Hope: The antidote to despair is community—stay connected, keep your heart soft, support one another.

Timestamps of Key Segments

• Opening and context setting: [00:32] – [06:40]
• Autocracy playbook overview: [07:13] – [10:59]
• Legal entrenchment and Project 2025: [10:59] – [14:00]
• Defining democracy and autocracy: [17:07] – [21:30]
• Law as both tool and threat: [24:34] – [28:33]
• SCOTUS and the illusion of constraints: [28:33] – [36:05]
• Fast autocracy versus slow autocracy: [36:05] – [40:26]
• Performative cruelty’s role: [40:55] – [47:02]
• Public realization and resistance strategies: [47:02] – [56:28]

Tone: Urgent, unsparing, yet pragmatic and, ultimately, hopeful.

For listeners seeking clarity and resolve in a tumultuous era, this episode offers a map, a sense of solidarity, and a toolkit for resistance—grounded in comparative history, legal expertise, and a call to both vigilance and community.