Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | "The Federal Judiciary Is Trapped" — November 1, 2025

Overview

This episode of Amicus delves into the mounting constitutional and legal crises facing the United States under Donald Trump’s “second term.” Host Dahlia Lithwick interviews Judge J. Michael Ludig, retired federal appellate judge and legal commentator, about the acute threats to American democracy, the corrosive impact on the federal judiciary, and Trump’s ongoing attempts to amass unchecked executive power. The second segment features Rick Woldenberg, CEO of Learning Resources, whose company is at the center of a pivotal Supreme Court case challenging Trump’s sweeping tariffs and the administration’s assertion of near-monarchic executive authority.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

I. Conversation with Judge J. Michael Ludig

The Rise of “Monarchic Power” and Third Term Threats (04:32–14:35)

• Ludig warns that Trump has allegedly seized “near absolute unchecked power” over the nation, evading oversight from Congress, the courts, and the media.

  • Quote:

    “The president, in the short 10 months that he's been in office, sought and has now seized near absolute unchecked power in the United States of America... unchecked by the coordinate branches of government, the Congress of the United States and the Supreme Court… unchecked by the nation's media.”
    — Judge Ludig (05:31)

• Trump's comments about running for a third term—though walk-backed—are part of a strategy to test and undermine constitutional norms.

  • Ludig emphasizes that the threat goes beyond literal third-term attempts:
    • “Subverting the election is the thing you're worried about in addition to that.” (10:27)

• On Response: Ludig insists that Trump’s pronouncements must be taken absolutely seriously, regardless of whether they are later recanted.

  • Quote:

    “When Donald Trump says he's going to do something, he will do it. That is the only way that rationally the rest of the world can regard this president. And if we don't, we dismiss him at our peril.”
    — Judge Ludig (13:04)

Federal Judiciary: Overwhelmed but Resilient (14:35–21:14)

• Lower courts are inundated by Trump’s norm violations and legal challenges—restraining orders, injunctions, appeals—at a previously unimaginable pace.

  • Judges from across the country openly accuse the Trump administration of lying, which is described as “DEFCON from a judge” (16:44).

• Integrity of the Department of Justice compromised:

  • "They are lawless, they are contemptuous of the Constitution and laws of the United States, and they are contemptuous of the courts..."
    — Judge Ludig (19:50)

• Supreme Court's silence is indicted as tacit complicity, leaving lower courts isolated.

  • Quote:

    “The Supreme Court has stood stoic and silent, giving the lower federal courts… zero support.”
    — Judge Ludig (17:24)

• Despite this, Ludig expresses deep pride in district and appellate judges for upholding their constitutional oaths.

Legitimacy, Faith in Courts, and What the Public Can Do (21:14–30:32)

• Responding to criticism that outspoken lower courts politicize the judiciary, Ludig roundsly rejects the charge:

  • Quote:

    “It is they [the lower courts], they who are protecting and safeguarding the integrity and the legitimacy, the very legitimacy of the federal courts in America.”
    — Judge Ludig (25:26)

• For skeptics and nihilists who argue nothing lower courts do matters because of likely Supreme Court reversals:

  • “You bet it matters. It matters more than what the Supreme Court will do in the end of the day.”
    — Judge Ludig (27:36)

• The plea from the judiciary to the public:

  • Americans must “please have faith in the federal courts”—the entire system hinges on this public commitment to judicial independence and the rule of law (29:30).

Erosion of Truth and Rewriting History (30:32–38:16)

• Discussion turns to the firing of DOJ attorneys for calling January 6 defendants a “mob of rioters,” and the wider purge and rewriting of history under Trump.

  • “This is a man and an attorney general who every day are trying to rewrite American history… ordering the rewriting of American history."
    — Judge Ludig (32:15)

• Lithwick reads a passage from 1984, paralleling Trump's orchestration of erasing the factual record.

  • Ludig’s answer is stark:
    • “There is a thing called truth in this world… The day that the federal courts… acquiesce in the denial and the rewriting of truth is the day that America fails. We in America will have failed to keep the republic that our founders charged us with keeping. It's that simple. Today, the last bastion of truth... is the federal courts.”
      — Judge Ludig (37:15)

II. Interview with Rick Woldenberg, CEO of Learning Resources

Background and Direct Impact of the “Liberation Day” Tariffs (42:20–49:40)

• Woldenberg details his family’s multi-generational business, emphasizing its mission to make affordable educational materials. Most products are manufactured overseas to keep prices low and competitive.

  • “If every child has an equal right to a great education, it's important that you keep your pencil sharp so that every child can have access to your products.”
    — Rick Woldenberg (43:31)

• Trump's "Liberation Day" tariffs were shocking in scale: company costs soared from under 2% to “145%” overnight.

  • “We were at 145% [tariffs]… We paid in tariffs and duties unaffected by IPA in 2024 of $2 million, $14 million in the last eight months...”
    — Rick Woldenberg (51:04)
  • This unpredictability forced the company to halt expansion and joint-ventures and consider existential legal strategies.

• Litigation as the recourse:

  • “Because I have some background in this issue, because I'm firmly convinced that these tariffs are unlawful, that I need to seek litigation.”
    — Rick Woldenberg (46:46)

Unseen Costs and the Taxation Myth (48:44–52:40)

• Woldenberg refutes the slogan that “China pays” the tariffs, explaining that American businesses or consumers shoulder the cost.
• “If you paid zero in real estate taxes on your house last year, and they said this year, we think it'd be jolly good if you pay $14 million… You'd probably notice it's a big number.”
  — Rick Woldenberg (51:34)

Small Business Vulnerability and Community Impact (53:44–56:16)

• Lithwick highlights the essential social and local economic role of businesses like Learning Resources.
• Woldenberg emphasizes the multiplier effect on families, communities, and local economies.
  • “These local businesses are essential to the local economy… I'm not willing to allow this to be destroyed.”
    — Rick Woldenberg (55:31)

Legal Theory: Tariff Authority and Executive Power (56:16–61:16)

• Woldenberg explains the administration's theory: that the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA, “AIPA” in the episode) gives the president broad leeway to “regulate importation,” including tariffs, as part of foreign affairs.
  • He counters:

    "An eighth grader would say, hey, isn't there a problem with that? Remember, we learned that in the American Revolution they didn't like taxation without representation... Mr. Trump doesn't have the power individually to impose a tax because he doesn't like a commercial that's running on TV."
    — Rick Woldenberg (58:34)

Why Stand Up? Courage and Contagion (62:01–64:13)

• Woldenberg reflects on why his company is at the forefront:
  • “At some point somebody needs to stand up. If everybody thinks that somebody should stand up, just not me. Nobody stands up.”
    — Rick Woldenberg (62:26)
• He hopes “making a lot of noise” will make it safer for others to show bravery.

Outlook for Supreme Court Arguments (64:13–67:08)

• Woldenberg says he expects a fair hearing but notes, ultimately, “the voters are really in charge in this country.”
• Passionately, he frames his cause as defending James Madison’s constitutional vision:
  • “The opportunity, the responsibility to defend his idea and the integrity of that idea in modern society today is one of my great honors of my life—to stand elbow to elbow with Mr. Madison is not something I ever expected to be able to do…” (66:07)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Judge Ludig on necessity of taking Trump seriously:
  “The only way that rationally the rest of the world can regard this president… if we don’t, we dismiss him at our peril.” (13:04)

• On judicial resistance:
  “It is they [the federal lower courts] who are protecting and safeguarding the integrity and the legitimacy, the very legitimacy of the federal courts in America.” (25:26)

• On the last bastion of truth:
  “Today, the last bastion of truth… in America, is the federal courts.” (37:15)

• Rick Woldenberg on standing up:
  "At some point somebody needs to stand up. If everybody thinks that somebody should stand up, just not me. Nobody stands up." (62:26)

• On constitutional education:
  “An eighth grader would say… Mr. Trump doesn’t have the power individually to impose a tax because he doesn’t like a commercial that’s running on TV.” (58:34)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening, State of the Judiciary: 01:14–03:49
• Judge Ludig introduces Atlantic piece and third-term danger: 04:32–11:43
• Federal judiciary under siege: 14:35–21:14
• Faith in courts and role of the public: 28:24–30:32
• Rewriting history and federal truth: 31:34–38:16
• Transition to tariff case: 40:42–42:20
• Rick Woldenberg—impact on business, tariffs explained: 42:20–49:40
• Litigation and legal theory: 56:16–61:16
• Standing up and courage: 62:01–64:13
• Hope for Supreme Court, vision of America: 64:13–67:08

Takeaways

• Both interviewees stress the centrality of rule of law, judicial independence, and core constitutional norms.
• Judge Ludig sees the lower federal courts as America’s last line of defense, “the last bastion of truth” (37:15), in the face of executive overreach and historical revisionism.
• Rick Woldenberg embodies the civic courage of individuals and small businesses standing up against extraordinary government power, reminding us of the historical and moral imperative to act when justice and constitutional order are threatened.
• Faith in the judiciary and truth itself is presented as the ultimate democratic act—one shared by judges, lawyers, and ordinary citizens alike.

This episode offers a sobering, clear-eyed look at the unprecedented strains placed on American democracy, the courts, and the responsibilities of both officeholders and ordinary citizens at a time of crisis.