Episode Overview
Title: The Return of The Waves!
Podcast: Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Slate Podcasts
Date: May 29, 2021
Theme:
This episode of The Waves (cross-posted on Amicus) explores the rapidly shifting landscape surrounding abortion rights in the United States in anticipation of the Supreme Court’s review of Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization. Host Christina Cauterucci and guest Robin Marty (author of Handbook for a Post-Roe America and communications director of the West Alabama Women’s Center & Yellowhammer Fund) engage in a candid, urgent discussion about what a post-Roe v. Wade America might look like, what steps individuals and communities can take to prepare, and the broader political climate shaping reproductive rights.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Current Legal Threats to Roe v. Wade
[01:37–07:35]
- The Supreme Court’s decision to hear Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization is described as a pivotal moment. Mississippi’s law would ban abortion after 15 weeks, directly challenging the established threshold of fetal viability (~24 weeks).
- Texas has recently passed an even more restrictive law banning abortion after just six weeks, before most people know they're pregnant.
- Robin Marty warns: “This is a complete and utter straight at Roe v. Wade. There is no place in current abortion law where a state can completely ban abortion prior to viability...” (Robin Marty, 03:48)
- Marty expects a wave of states passing 12- or 14-week bans, leveraging the “comparisons to Europe” by anti-abortion groups—without acknowledging that European countries have universal healthcare and widespread early access.
2. The Political Calculus of Republican Leadership
[07:35–09:12]
- Marty posits that while some anti-abortion activists push for total bans, many Republican politicians are reluctant to fully overturn Roe since the debate energizes their base and serves as a powerful electoral tool.
- “It is so easy to run for office as a Republican when you have Roe to run on and when you have abortion to run on.” (Robin Marty, 08:21)
- Timing of the Supreme Court’s decision, likely before the 2022 midterms, may be strategic.
3. Activism, Legal Access, and Public Fatigue
[09:12–13:08]
- Marty reflects on her past argument that overturning Roe might galvanize public support, but she now fears activist fatigue and increasingly insurmountable barriers, especially after experiencing firsthand the logistical and financial difficulties faced by patients seeking abortions.
- She recounts how partial versus total bans provoke different public reactions and varying degrees of activism/fundraising. Economic, political, and pandemic-related exhaustion weigh heavily on prospects for renewed mobilization.
4. Limits of Federal Action & Institutional Barriers
[13:08–15:37]
- Structural factors—like the Senate, filibuster, judicial appointments, and historical failure to enshrine abortion access at the federal level—are outlined as persistent obstacles.
- “With the Supreme Court essentially in conservative hands, we've lost that wing for good… Even if we have a pro-choice majority in the House and we can get a veto-proof majority in the Senate and we have the White House at the same time, we still can’t guarantee that we can have complete change.” (Robin Marty, 13:33)
- Marty sees little hope for federal legislation to reliably counteract restrictive state laws.
5. Preparing for a Post-Roe Reality: Individual and Community Action
[15:37–18:46]
- The most critical adaptation is normalizing and increasing access to medication abortion, with the aspiration that people treat abortion pills like emergency contraception—something safely and discreetly stored in medicine cabinets.
- The pandemic made clear the vulnerabilities in both supply chains and legal access to medication abortions, particularly for marginalized groups.
6. Legal Risks and State Crackdowns on Information-Sharing
[18:46–21:19]
- The Texas law’s “aiding and abetting” provisions are dissected: anyone assisting someone in obtaining an abortion—financially, logistically, etc.—can be sued by private individuals for up to $10,000. Marty calls it "snitch laws," highlighting the climate of fear and mistrust they create.
- Mississippi’s consideration of laws to criminalize sharing information about abortion underscores the growing breadth of these crackdowns. Even distributing handouts or writing books on the subject could become felonious.
7. Self-Managed Abortion: Safety & Stigma
[21:19–24:09]
- Marty provides a nuanced view of self-managed abortion, explaining that if performed with medication, it is physically safe but legally risky.
- She purposefully expands information on herbal and other methods in her updated book to avoid electronic surveillance and serve marginalized communities.
- “If you have the ability to access medication abortion, that will always be the safest way… The only thing that’s dangerous about medication abortion is that in many places, if you don’t get it through a clinic, it could put you in jail.” (Robin Marty, 22:12)
8. Privilege, Risk, and Movement-Building
[24:09–26:40]
- Marty emphasizes thoughtful risk assessment in activism, especially distributing legal and personal risks according to privilege.
- White allies—who face lower risks of punitive policing and prosecution—must lead where possible and mitigate harm to those more vulnerable, particularly Black and brown communities.
9. Advocacy Funding: Prioritizing Local Over National
[26:40–29:54]
- Marty critiques the national political advocacy focus, arguing it neglects deep-red states where change is hardest yet most needed.
- “Do not give money to national groups. Always give money, resources, your time, whatever you’re going to do to the most local organization on the ground that you can find, it will go so much further.” (Robin Marty, 29:06)
- Grassroots networks are essential, and funding should prioritize those working directly in affected communities.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “This is a complete and utter straight at Roe v. Wade. There is no place in current abortion law where a state can completely ban abortion prior to viability…” – Robin Marty (03:48)
- “It is so easy to run for office as a Republican when you have Roe to run on and when you have abortion to run on.” – Robin Marty (08:21)
- “If you have the ability to access medication abortion, that will always be the safest way that a person could do their own self-care… The only thing that’s dangerous about medication abortion is that in many places, if you don’t get it through a clinic, it could put you in jail. It’s a legal issue—it’s not a physical one.” – Robin Marty (22:12)
- “Do not give money to national groups. Always give money, resources, your time, whatever you’re going to do to the most local organization on the ground that you can find.” – Robin Marty (29:06)
Important Segment Timestamps
- Episode Introduction & context: [00:56–01:37]
- Explanation of Supreme Court’s abortion case: [01:37–05:02]
- Political motivations for keeping Roe as a wedge issue: [07:35–09:12]
- The realities of access and impact of partial vs. total bans: [09:35–13:08]
- Barriers to federal reform and the limits of optimism: [13:33–15:37]
- Preparation strategies for individuals and communities: [16:10–18:46]
- Breakdown of Texas “aiding and abetting” abortion law: [18:53–21:19]
- Self-managed abortion options & safety: [21:55–24:09]
- Risk distribution and privilege in post-Roe activism: [24:40–26:40]
- Critique of national advocacy; case for local focus: [26:40–29:54]
Final Thoughts & Recommendations
- Robin Marty’s book: Handbook for a Post-Roe America is referenced throughout as a vital guide for what lies ahead.
- Book Recommendation: The Book of the Unnamed Midwife series by Meg Elison (31:11)
- Lighthearted Product Recommendation: The Teva Hurricane Drift sandal – endorsed for style and comfort (31:30)
In Summary
This episode is a sobering, clear-eyed look at the rapidly shifting landscape of abortion rights in the US. The hosts and guest combine legal analysis, practical advice, and movement strategy, grounding everything in the urgency of the moment. They resist complacency, urging listeners to adapt, support local advocacy, and prepare for both legal and underground struggles. Listeners are left with both pragmatic guidance and a strong call to localized, privilege-aware activism.
For more resources, Robin Marty’s handbook and the cited book titles are highly recommended starting points for further reading and practical action.