Amicus with Dahlia Lithwick | Episode: "When the Lawyers are Lawless"

Release Date: March 1, 2025
Host: Dahlia Lithwick
Guest: Asha Rangappa, Assistant Dean at Yale University's Jackson School of Global Affairs, former FBI Special Agent, and legal contributor for ABC News.

1. Introduction: A Clash of Powers

Dahlia Lithwick opens the episode by highlighting the escalating tensions between the Trump administration and the U.S. Supreme Court. She draws parallels to a "monarchic" battle, suggesting that Chief Justice John Roberts is positioning himself as a stabilizing force against what she describes as President Trump's authoritarian maneuvers.

Notable Quote:
“At midnight Wednesday, John Roberts issued an administrative stay to give the Court a few days to review written arguments...” (02:10)

2. Deconstruction of the Administrative State

Lithwick details the Trump administration’s ongoing efforts to dismantle key federal agencies, including USAID, the CFPB, and the Department of Education. She underscores the administration's strategy of firing thousands of federal workers without clear cause, disrupting the functionality of these institutions.

Key Points:

• Efforts to weaken the administrative state by targeting essential agencies.
• The chaotic nature of the administration's directives, exemplified by the confusing emails sent to federal workers.
• The promotion of Amy Gleason within the Department of Governmental Operations (Doge), raising concerns about transparency and corruption.

Notable Quote:
“This violates fundamental constitutional separation of powers principles and has thrown Washington D.C. into trauma as intended.” (04:15)

3. Transformation of Security Forces and National Security

The conversation shifts to discuss the disturbing trend where law enforcement and national security officials are increasingly acting outside legal constraints. Lithwick highlights key appointments and actions that signify a shift towards authoritarianism within these institutions.

Subsections:

• FBI Overhaul with Dan Bongino:

  • Appointment of Dan Bongino, a former Secret Service agent and podcaster, as deputy director of the FBI.
  • Concerns over Bongino’s lack of traditional FBI experience and his controversial statements regarding FBI corruption.

  Notable Quote:
  “Any lawyers who try to slow you down is what you do when you're planning to break the law.” (06:08)

• John Roberts and Supreme Court Involvement:

  • Supreme Court's intervention in cases challenging the administration’s policies, indicating a judicial pushback against executive overreach.

  Notable Quote:
  “This case may well be the first collision between a monarchic President and a monarchic court.” (05:20)

• Ed Martin and the DOJ’s Alignment with Trump:

  • Appointment of Ed Martin as acting U.S. Attorney in D.C., who openly aligns his office with Trump’s agenda.
  • The use of DOJ to target and threaten public figures critical of the administration.

  Notable Quote:
  “He is leveling threats all over the place at public figures who criticize the administration.” (10:46)

4. Erosion of Legal Safeguards in the Military

Lithwick and Rangappa delve into the Pentagon’s recent purge of top military leaders and Judge Advocate General (JAG) officers, highlighting the implications for military legality and accountability.

Key Points:

• Firings of Top Military Leaders:

  • Dismissal of Joint Chiefs Chairman General Charles Q. Brown and Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Lisa Franchetti.
  • Undermining DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) efforts, which historically have been crucial in maintaining a diverse and professional military force.

• Removal of JAG Officers:

  • JAG officers play a critical role in ensuring military orders comply with the Constitution and international law.
  • Their removal signals a weakening of legal oversight, potentially paving the way for unlawful military actions.

Notable Quote:
“The JAG officers will be prosecuting and defending service members, ensuring orders are legal...” (29:59)

5. Local Implications: The Coeur d'Alene Incident

The discussion moves to a local incident in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, where unidentified security forces violently confronted Dr. Teresa Boropol during a town hall meeting. This event exemplifies the broader theme of law enforcement operating without accountability.

Key Points:

• Unidentified Security Forces:

  • Attack on Dr. Boropol by private security agents affiliated with Lear Asset Management, who refused to identify themselves.
  • The lack of uniform markings creates confusion and fear among the public, undermining trust in law enforcement.

• Chilling Effect on Free Speech:

  • Such incidents deter individuals from exercising their First Amendment rights due to fear of arbitrary violence and lack of accountability.

Notable Quote:
“It's like you could be either arrested or kidnapped and you might not know, undermining foundational notions of how we can be safe in public spaces.” (40:08)

6. The Role of the Military as a Bulwark Against Authoritarianism

Rangappa emphasizes the importance of the military's traditional role in upholding democratic principles. She discusses how diversity, professionalization, and loyalty to the Constitution have historically prevented autocratic control within the armed forces.

Key Points:

• Diversity:
  "41% of its members identify as a minority, making the military one of the most diverse organizations in the country." (25:18)

• Professionalization and Constitutional Loyalty:
  The military's ingrained culture and size act as natural safeguards against swift subversion, despite high-level firings attempting to erode these protections.

Notable Quote:
“The military is one of the most diverse organizations, one of the most diverse employers in the country. This is a natural prophylactic against divisive measures.” (35:23)

7. Strategies for Countering Authoritarian Tendencies

In the concluding segment, Rangappa advocates for coalition building across ideological divides as a vital strategy to resist authoritarianism. She draws inspiration from historical examples, such as Chile’s resistance against dictatorship, emphasizing unity and transcendent civic virtues.

Key Points:

• Coalition Building:
  Forming alliances across different political and social groups to create a united front against authoritarian threats.

• Transcendent Civic Virtues:
  Emphasizing shared democratic principles and civic responsibilities to maintain societal cohesion.

Notable Quote:
“One of the things that does seem to be a good strategy is coalition building across differences... if these people could get rid of that dictator after 17 years, then we can definitely stop this tide.” (43:45)

8. Conclusion: Vigilance and Collective Action

Lithwick wraps up the episode by reiterating the importance of understanding the multifaceted threats to the rule of law and democratic institutions. She underscores the necessity of collective awareness and action to safeguard constitutional principles.

Notable Quote:
“We need to stop this tide. We are still very early, and we still have a lot of power. We need to remember that we are many, they are few.” (45:57)

Final Thoughts

This episode of Amicus provides a comprehensive examination of the current threats to the U.S. legal and constitutional framework, particularly under the Trump administration. Through insightful analysis and expert commentary, Dahlia Lithwick and Asha Rangappa illuminate the intricate ways in which legal institutions and norms are being undermined, calling for heightened vigilance and unified resistance to preserve democratic values.

Additional Resources:

• Asha Rangappa’s Substack: The Freedom Academy with Asha Rangappa
• Join Slate Plus: Access exclusive legal analysis and bonus episodes at slate.com/amicusplus