E419 The Salty Spitoon Sauna and the Bookworm Protocol

Summary

Podcast Summary: E419 – "The Salty Spitoon Sauna and the Bookworm Protocol"

And That's Why We Drink Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz Release Date: February 16, 2025

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1. Host Banter and Personal Reflections (00:00 – 36:57)

In the opening segments, Christine and Em engage in their characteristic witty banter, showcasing their chemistry and setting a casual, conversational tone for the episode. They discuss personal experiences, such as unexpected interruptions during recording sessions and the nuances of hearing their own voices unexpectedly.

Key Discussions:

• Handling Unexpected Interruptions: Em recounts a night where she experienced eerie occurrences while taking notes for the podcast, leading to suspicions of paranormal activity.

  Em (04:07): "But within goodies with things to lure me out of my home with fun little treats."

• Dealing with Listener Feedback: Christine opens up about her recent foray into reading listener comments on Reddit, expressing vulnerability and emotional responses to both positive and negative feedback.

  Christine (09:27): "I just want to reassure anyone that, like, don't worry, we're not going anywhere."

• Authenticity and Personal Growth: Both hosts emphasize the importance of simplicity, openness, and authenticity in their podcasting journey, discussing how they've evolved over the years and how listener relationships have deepened.

  Christine (24:34): "I just want to say, like, don't worry. We're still here. There's nothing to fear."

2. Exploring the Humpty Doo Poltergeist Case (37:00 – 74:00)

Christine and Em delve into one of their featured paranormal cases: the Humpty Doo poltergeist, located in Australia. They provide a detailed recounting of the events, blending true crime elements with supernatural phenomena.

Case Details:

• Setting and Initial Activity: In 1998, five housemates in a rental home in Humpty Doo, Australia, began experiencing unexplained phenomena after a severe storm.

  Em (45:26): "So all five of them are hanging out on the porch watching the storm."

• Escalation of Paranormal Activity: Objects began flying at the residents, including gravel from their driveway and household items, which sometimes felt soft upon impact, indicating a non-hostile intent.

  Christine (68:36): "When the rocks would hit them, apparently this is a quote. It felt like a marshmallow."

• Attempts to Seek Help: The housemates called in priests to cleanse the home, but initial attempts only intensified the activity. Eventually, different clergy members failed to quell the disturbances, leading to increased media attention.

  Em (60:27): "He said, I just can't do anything. I have to leave."

• Media Involvement: A local news team, Channel Sevens, documented the haunting, resulting in extensive footage but no resolution, leaving the housemates seeking alternative explanations and assistance.

  Christine (85:14): "It was a massive, like, flat statue, essentially, like a big design of a solid cross and a solid trident."

3. The Murder of Helene Przeszynski and Breakthrough (74:00 – 134:59)

Transitioning from supernatural stories, Christine and Em recount the tragic true crime case of Helene Przeszynski, whose murder remained unsolved for decades before a significant breakthrough in 2019.

Case Overview:

• Background: Helene Przeszynski, a promising journalism student and active member of her college's acapella group, went missing in January 1980 in Denver, Colorado.

  Em (91:05): "Helene was the youngest of three children born April 5, 1958, in New York."

• Disappearance and Discovery: After opting to wait for a bus in inclement weather, Helene never returned home. Her body was later found in Daniels Park, showing signs of a violent assault, including rape and multiple stab wounds.

  Christine (104:48): "When the news broke, you know, that Helene's killer was finally in custody, it was sort of bittersweet for everyone who had waited these 40 years."

• Investigation Challenges: Initial police efforts in 1980 hit dead ends, with DNA evidence not yielding a match in CODIS. Over the years, false leads, including confessions from known criminals, added to the complexity.

  Em (118:29): "You know, I can't imagine a bigger kick to the head of, like, oh, now we can use it."

• Renewed Efforts and Technological Advances: In 2015, a dedicated cold case unit revisited Helene's murder, leveraging advancements in DNA technology and genealogy databases. This persistence led to identifying James Curtis White, a former resident with a violent past, as the perpetrator.

  Christine (129:38): "So they gave that to the police, and they were able to run this sample. And wouldn't you know, it, it matched the DNA collected from Helene's body 39 years ago."

• Resolution and Aftermath: James Curtis White confessed to the murder after being confronted with the DNA evidence. The case closure brought mixed emotions to those involved, offering relief but also highlighting the enduring trauma of unsolved crimes.

  Em (135:08): "To those of you who have been here forever and are still here 30 minutes in, I'm so sorry, but. Love you all. And we're not going anywhere."

4. Closing Remarks and Future Directions (135:00 – End)

Christine and Em reflect on the emotional weight of solving longstanding cases and the impact on the victims' families and friends. They express gratitude towards their listeners for their unwavering support and introduce the next segment of their podcast.

Final Thoughts:

• Emotional Impact: The resolution of Helene's case serves as a poignant reminder of the importance of persistence in true crime investigations and the profound effect unsolved cases have on communities.

  Christine (133:52): "At the age of 83, Mike said in an interview that he was happy that the people who loved Helene wouldn't have to endure a trial."

• Community and Support: Em emphasizes the role of community and dedicated friends in keeping the memory of victims alive and the necessity of closure for healing.

  Em (135:27): "Kimberly said that people all have hobbies they enjoy, but her only hobby was finding Helene's killer."

• Looking Forward: The hosts tease future episodes and stories, maintaining their commitment to delivering compelling true crime and paranormal content.

  Christine (138:11): "So that was the Helene Pruszynski story. Very, very tragic. But, like, thankfully, it was solved finally."

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Notable Quotes:

• Em Schulz (04:07): "But within goodies with things to lure me out of my home with fun little treats."
• Christine Schiefer (09:27): "I just want to reassure anyone that, like, don't worry, we're not going anywhere."
• Em Schulz (60:27): "He said, I just can't do anything. I have to leave."
• Christine Schiefer (104:48): "When the news broke, you know, that Helene's killer was finally in custody, it was sort of bittersweet for everyone who had waited these 40 years."

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Conclusion

Episode E419 of "And That's Why We Drink" masterfully intertwines the hosts' personal experiences with in-depth explorations of both paranormal phenomena and relentless true crime investigations. Christine and Em provide listeners with a rich narrative that not only entertains but also underscores the profound human emotions associated with unresolved mysteries and their eventual resolutions.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

That was a beautiful little.

[A]

That was a good one, wasn't it?

[B]

Like, sometimes I feel like our, like, fairies, like, their wings touch each other by accident. Oh.

[A]

Like a butterfly I kiss.

[B]

Yeah, that's what. That's what happens in my brain every time we clap at the exact same time.

[A]

That's so romantic. Any. What was that? Jesus.

[B]

Is that your stupid laugh? Yeah, I know it's. It. Jesus. It was your phone filming us.

[A]

My phone was just. No, it, like, was playing an old episode.

[B]

Oh, that's cute. See, that's even better than when the fairies touch their wings. That's when they realize they're gay and kiss.

[A]

Everybody had to hear double of us, including ourselves. Like, that's a true nightmare. Jeez. Wow. What a doozy. Anyway, that was alarming. I'm so sorry for the interruption of myself. I guess my own voice.

[B]

I do like when we double whammy ambush people. That's.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I guess I like it. It feels like a social experiment of some sort.

[B]

I don't like when other people ambush me with my own voice, though. Because sometimes I will, like, be at my mom's house or Allison's cooking dinner, and all of a sudden I hear myself and I'm like, what the fuck's going on?

[A]

Startling.

[B]

And to some people, it might sound like, obviously, other people who are hearing this might think, oh, obviously, it's your podcast. But I always get nervous when you. When you hear your own voice, you don't think, oh, podcast first. You think like, someone's re. Listen to like an old voice message or like a voicemail or something. I don't know, in my own head. That's where I go. And I'm like, why is someone replaying that when I'm in the house?

[A]

Oh, wow. So you think you have a spy on your case? I think that everyone's listening to my podcast.

[B]

That's lovely.

[A]

But I guess you have darker, darker motives in mind.

[B]

I'm just always a little paranoid, I guess. But I know if. When I hear Allison, it took a long time. Now I know she's listening to a podcast, but when I first hear my own voice, I just go like, what the hell's.

[A]

Yeah, it's weird when it's on your partner. Yeah, it is weird. Weird. It is weird because it's like.

[B]

It's like, are you watching a video of us? Like, I don't know what's going on.

[A]

Or if your voice is playing. I'm like, why are you talking to.

[B]

M. Yeah, I have heard your voice when Allison's cooking, and I thought that she was on the phone with you, so I. I never know what to expect.

[A]

Maybe she was replaying old spy tapes. I don't know.

[B]

I know. Well, you know, someone ought to, now that my Chinese spy's gone.

[A]

But what's your Chinese spy.

[B]

Oh, Christine, it's. It's just brain rot speak from Tick Tock.

[A]

That's what I figured. Okay, so it's like, basically your NSA agent. Yes. Okay, got it. Although as mine's not gone, I can tell you that much.

[B]

As we're talking about my NSA agent, a random man just knocked on my door because he is bringing me drinks.

[A]

So. Yeah, well, when you say a ran like you told me before we recorded oh, Postmates is coming, and then when you're on the podcast, you're like, oh, a random man is here. Hold on, let me get the door. I'm like, do you realize now why it's framed so alarmingly to the public? Right? Like.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Just. Just. It's not a random. I mean, it's a random. I assume it's a random person.

[B]

It sure is a random.

[A]

Okay, so. But.

[B]

But within goodies with things to lure.

[A]

Me out of my home with fun little treats. Oh, okay. So the candy van has arrived. Em's about to go get it. Do you need to go get it?

[B]

Can I go get it for a second, please? Oh, my goodness.

[A]

Sure that you come back safe.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, just make sure I come back at all. I don't care about safe.

[A]

I guess it's time I put out the call. Once again, this is the third knock in a row that M has answered. Self described random man at the door. You know, last with fun little night.

[B]

I had a bit of a true crime experience.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

Oh, no. I had a bit of a true crime experience last night because it was the middle of the night and I was doing my notes per usual. And I got some Mickey D's per usual. Per usual. And for some reason, I mean, it was dark. I don't know what was going on, but I had a weird gut feeling where I was like, what? Which, like, it ended up not. It ended up me being. Me being paranoid. It was not anything true crime.

[A]

You heard your own voice coming from the kitchen.

[B]

In my mind, I like, I got like, I got all in my head, I think because I was watching something scary and I was like, don't. Don't open the door when the food gets here. And I like, started freaking myself out that I was like, someone's waiting outside me. Waiting for me to get my food, and they're gonna jump out and get me when I do that.

[A]

Well, what the happened?

[B]

I waited five minutes and then I just.

[A]

Maybe they're what risked it all. You're like, I can't let the dumplings get too cold. Oh, my God.

[B]

Anyway, so I. I had a little moment like that last night, and I was like, that was kind of crazy. And.

[A]

Well, I'm glad you're here to tell the tale. And I'm glad you waited five minutes. I don't know.

[B]

But today, if. If things went sideways, you would know that it was because I snuck out to get my food in the middle of the night. And that would. I mean, that would make sense to everybody. Yeah.

[A]

You are like a little raccoon scavenging.

[B]

Like we saw that coming for M. Yeah. One.

[A]

One DoorDash to one fun little treat too many just lure one had a booby trap set.

[B]

Eventually the treats are too fun, so.

[A]

Oh. Anyways, must come to an end. Wait, is that why you drink? Because of your crime experience?

[B]

You know, I guess today that's why I drink. Oh. I will tell you, if anyone listened to our yappy hour. I think last week or two weeks ago, Christine suggested a laundry service to me. They came back yesterday. My clothes are lovely. Hey, so thank you for that. So I guess I drink because you gave me one last task to do, which is wonderful. And I. I kind of already said this too, but I have been collecting more Pokemon cards. But yes, last week or two Weeks ago I bought them and now they're all coming in.

[A]

So now you heard all the knocks when you answered the door to all the ran. Random men with Pokemon cards. It's true.

[B]

So anyway, I mean, it sounds like.

[A]

How an 8 year old gets kidnapped a man with Pokemon card.

[B]

Remember?

[A]

And you said he had a suit on. You're like, oh, man, with Pokemon cards. And. And treats for me. It's like, what the m. You're an eight year old boy.

[B]

I. And. And I've always said that and you've always been that.

[A]

That's so true.

[B]

Yeah. So I guess I drink for those reasons. And since I've been home, I've actually gone to like, see friends, which is lovely. It's been very refreshing. A very nice.

[A]

You're like back. Back on your home turf now.

[B]

Back on my A game. Yeah.

[A]

Grounded.

[B]

Anyway, that's why I drink. Why do you drink, Christine?

[A]

Okay, I have. I had a reason. And this is the. This is the. This is the reason I was going to bring. Okay, okay, watch this. Oh, wait.

[B]

Oh, you got it. Keep it up. You can do it. I think what you were trying to say is you got a new laptop which gives you capabilities to do the finger thing. Oh, wait, mine isn't going either. Did they change the settings? Oh, no. You just. You just have to commit. You just have to commit to the bit.

[A]

Okay, I've committed to the bit so many times, so move.

[B]

Your move. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got this. We're all rooting for you. Put the fingers up for Z. It's so embarrassing.

[A]

Oh, no. Oh, it's raining. I did it.

[B]

I did it. I did it. It's raining.

[A]

Okay, that does track that. They only let me do the sad one and thumbs down. So I tried thumbs up many times. Didn't work. But thumbs down seems at least your.

[B]

Laptop has like, some like, ability to read the room. Mine just is so flippant with her emotions.

[A]

Frenetic.

[B]

I just like, we're doing it. Okay.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was my original reason I drank because I was just a cool new laptop. And then I got like, really in my feelings, and I'm sorry to use an outdated term. Um, I. Okay, here's what I'll say. I feel poor. M. I warned Em before this. I was like, I'm gonna get emotional. Um, okay, so it's January, right? I feel like a lot of things have shifted in the last couple months for a variety of giant and little reasons. And one of the things I've committed to this year is to try to feel all my feelings instead of just like shoving them down and letting them just like, sit and fester, whatever. And so I've been like, trying to be more receptive and open even when feelings are bad or scary.

[B]

Oh, shit. Okay.

[A]

And in that vein, I mean, I've already just behind the scenes had some very massive stuff going on, tectonic plates shifting, personally. But, you know, nothing, nothing terrible, all fine. But in that. So I had therapy this morning and I was feeling very brave.

[B]

Oh, God, that's a bravery. Put that back down.

[A]

And I was like, you know what? I just had this gut feeling. I was like, I just. I want to pop into Reddit.

[B]

Oh, that's not just brave, that's brazen. Okay.

[A]

It was like final boss territory, you know?

[B]

Yeah, that really is okay. Well, hey, proud of you. Couldn't do it myself.

[A]

Thank you. And I didn't. I was like, you know what, Whatever happens, I'm just going to try and when I start to get closed off or defensive, I'm just gonna, like, open up and just let it all come through. And it was a very emotional experience and I feel that it was all very good. Like, I. I don't think I would have ever said that it was hard to read and, like, look through some of it, but it was very eye opening. And I feel like maybe I will keep an eye on it in the future because I think now that I'm just more receptive and less, like, immediately defensive, I can kind of just take things either with a grain of salt or like, actually maybe see more of the value behind some of the critiques. And I will also say, like, I was going through the post just to see, like, what people were feeling and thinking about the show, because it is fair that, like, we hear feedback and I was just shocked at how few, like, nasty comments there were. Like, any Reddit posts I'm on, anywhere on Reddit, there's like, nasty posts and nasty comments. Comments. And there were like one or two that were like, not nice. But I mean, everybody, even when people were like, oh, I don't listen anymore, whatever, like, they were all very kind and nothing nasty. And I. So I just was very thankful for that. And I just wanted to kind of put that energy back out there to all the listeners too. Like, thank you. Even if you're not feeling it or whatever, that you're not, you know, being. Being mean, that's just really. That goes to show, like, the listeners we have just being really, really great Let me check my notes. Hold on. How far down did you go? Wait on Reddit. Yeah, I was like, oh, I'm on bullet 2 of 92. No, I'm just kidding. How far? Not too far. I just read a couple like posts that said like, does anyone else feel this way? You know, like the very daunting ones where it's like one, one was called Disappointed frown face. And so of course I clicked that one.

[B]

Great.

[A]

And I just, I felt like the, it was a very eye opening experience. I just wanted to say thank you for everyone for even giving feedback and leaving your opinions because even when it was differing, like people were at least giving their honest opinion and being kind about it. And so thank you for that. And so I did. There was like a through line with a couple of the things that I was reading that were like questions people kept asking or, or, or inconsistency or clarity that maybe they need they wanted. So I don't know how many people out there actually reflect this, but it seemed like people were confused about a few things. So I guess I figured we'd kind of like just explain. I don't know if there's anything from our side to sure. To elaborate or give clarity on or put people at ease, I suppose. And that the first one being a researcher. And we do have a researcher, but only one. And they're very great but we take their privacy very seriously. Right. And because they don't necessarily want to be shouted out or whatever. So we, we, we try to keep it kind of on the DL but we do have one researcher and they're, they have kick ass research abilities. It's a partnership though. It's not like an assembly line where they just, you know, do the work and then we read it off a teleprompter. If it does come across that way, I apologize. Maybe it's like a different writing style. I don' but that is not how it really works. I also found that I thought like, oh, they would just be kind of helping like collate notes and stuff. But I've also found that they have really, really good insight into a lot of things, especially in my crime stories that I don't necessarily have. So like life in, you know, the wilderness and like national park rules and life and how that works and life on the spectrum and things that like I feel I have added nuance to my stories. But, but. So that's why I think it's such a valuable asset to have them on the team. But for what it's worth, we do still do our own research and spend a lot of time picking topics and researching them. And I promise you, I don't just go through Netflix and pick like the top ones. I mean, I sometimes do if I'm like, that's really interesting. But I just wanted people to rest easy that we are still very committed to covering stories we like and are interested in. And it's not like we've handed off the whole, I guess, narration to somebody else.

[B]

Yeah. And I also, I'll say that both of us have different relationships with the researcher.

[A]

That's true too. And I don't even know what, how em works with the researcher. Like, we have our own styles.

[B]

Yeah, I, I don't often work with the researcher. There are a lot of times. And that was because I was. I don't look at Reddit, but I had, I have people who will bring things to me. And for a while they, People were saying, this was like, I guess to me it felt nasty. I don't know how nasty it is. I don't know how credit. How helpful of criticism it was. But I saw something a long time ago, people being like, oh, things have obviously gone downhill since we got a researcher. But then I think they were just picking a random spot on a timeline to assume when the researcher happened.

[A]

And like, that's what it is.

[B]

And they were, they were also picking stories as examples of like, when things were either much better or. And they were, they were picking. They didn't know what they were talking about. They were picking times where either we did have a research and they were saying things were better since then. But then they were also using that as an example to say that our research has.

[A]

It was like, you can't win a little bit sometimes. And yeah.

[B]

Talking about. And that's.

[A]

But that's the nature of being like a public figure. People can say whatever they want on the Internet. And it's like at a certain point, you know. Yeah.

[B]

So anyway, ever since then, I, I was like, okay, well, I've been doing a lot of experimenting with my own research. Like, it's nothing. It's. It has. There's no like, secret hidden beef or anything with me. And the reason, I mean, I can.

[A]

Tell you trying, like new.

[B]

But there's, it's just me almost taking that comment to heart and being like, okay, well how about I do this? And then all of a sudden, like, they'll say, oh, this is, this is the best research they've ever done. They obviously brought the researcher on and then it's like, an episode that I one did all the work on. And then I'll do another episode with the researcher and then they'll say like, oh, this is terrible. But then it'll be flipped the next week where with the researcher was the best and with my work. So, like, no matter what people, I think that's why, you know what I mean?

[A]

That's why I know, but that's why it's like, okay, the second you kind of, at least for me, the second I was like, you know what? I'm just going to take everything and be like, all right, tell me, tell me what you feel. And guess what? 90% of people are like, I think it's fine and great. Or, you know, just take a break and come back. It helps me sometimes, you know, I'm.

[B]

Just, I'm just saying because I just wanted to explain that, like, I don't have the same relationship with the researcher that you do. I, there are, I would argue, still at least half of my stories. I, I don't even use a researcher. So.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So it's also like, yeah, moot point in a certain way. And so we do have a researcher. Yes. And I believe for my stories, because it's the nature of like true crime and telling people's real life stories and.

[B]

Very, a lot more on the line.

[A]

Very traumatic. Yeah. It's like I just care, I just care about the really, very carefully done research. And yes, I, you know, have a journalism degree, which helps, but also having a researcher to access like those library things that I don't have time to do these days, you know, things like that where it's like, so helpful to get the extra tidbits that aren't in the main sources online anyway. All that to say, yes, we do have a researcher. I, I very intentionally didn't want to make this defensive and I'm sorry, I don't want it.

[B]

No, no, you're not being defensive. I, I, the only reason I jumped in was to say that, like you said, I don't even know how your relationship is.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. And it's good to know because I'm like, okay, that's good to know. I didn't even know.

[B]

Well, part of me feels like, you know, then people will hold on to the part that I say like, oh, I don't even use a researcher. But I will say to the people who like, have left comments, I've gotten feedback that some of those episodes are the ones that you thought I use the researcher the most. So you don't really Know what? To what degree? I just. I. Since we're talking about it, I'll just. I'm just bringing it up because I'm like, oh, that's. That's always kind of rubbed me the wrong way that people just assume that the episodes are better when I have no grab on it. And it's like, sometimes those are the ones you guys like the most.

[A]

So I'm so glad you said that, though, because I feel like that is exactly what I was trying to do is just, like, clear the air, so to speak, and just be very upfront. Because another word of 2025 for me there. I have two that I'm, like, really focused on, which is simplicity. Well, three, I guess, simplicity, openness, and authenticity. And I think what, like, being authentic is so undervalued in, like, the entertainment field, whatever. And so, you know, we try to be that way. And so that's. And I guess maybe I don't know that that was part going on Reddit and just really, like, just taking it all in and seeing, like, what. Because it's. I mean, it's what people are thinking and feeling. You know what I mean? And it's like, I can't control that from my end. Right. Like, if they're gonna not like something, it's okay. They don't have to like it. And I just really wanted to work on, like, my spirals, you know, and not falling into those. And so I just kind of, like, took it all in. And most of it was really positive, or at least, like, kind, you know?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And the other. There was a second. Just one more thing I promised folks for people who are like, what the hell? Who cares? The other thing that I wanted to address, and I. I will say a lot of people were saying, like, I wish I'm in. Christine would see these comments. And, like, just so. So that's kind of why I'm like, you know what? Okay, yes, I will see the comments and I will hear them and internalize them, and not internalize them, I guess, but, like, you know, I will take them in and then make a decision. But upon reading a lot of the comments, people were, you know, saying different times that they've sensed we were, like, burnt out or, you know, super exhausted. And, like, yeah, you're probably right. I will say, though, a very funny thing. My friend, my newer friend Nicole, who does a psychic story podcast, she was listening to an episode and she's like, really? Like, I said something like, oh, that was, like, one of the worst days, and whatever, and I just had this, like, horrible thing. And she goes, really? I totally didn't sense any of that. I'm psychic and I know you. So I think at a certain point, it's hard to read somebody just based on like, a two hour.

[B]

Well, also, I think it's the same thing as the researcher where I think people sometimes think that we're the most burnt out. Like, it was. Remember I told you a while ago that I got feedback that people were saying, like, oh, I'm obviously miserable and, like, hate the show. And I was like, that was what I felt the best. And like, now, now, ironically, by hearing that, now I don't want to do the show. So, like, yeah, it was like I was feeling really good about myself. And then like, someone like, like, they recognized me and the first thing they said was like, oh, like, you're obviously so tired. And I was like, why would you say that? Like, I'm actually, like, in a really good mood. And now, now I'm not.

[A]

And meanwhile, we're at the whims of other people. We need to let that go.

[B]

But then meanwhile, times where people have said, like, oh, like, they're obviously like, back in their game. It's like, well, that's actually when I felt the shit. So it's just the exact same thing of, like, people are just kind of putting a narrative to it. So.

[A]

Putting a narrative to it, which I understand. Like, that's human inclination to fill in the g. Trying to figure out, wait, why do the people I listen to every week sound so snippy with each other or sound like one of them's annoyed or. And it's like, you know, sometimes it's just probably nothing. Or maybe it's like projecting or maybe it's like, I don't know, we just sound different that week and something. But sometimes, like, we are. We're tired and exhausted and burnt out. And, you know, we try to make that, like, not obvious. But sometimes, like, we're sick or sometimes I have a lot of pain and I'm like, let's just. And so it's not necessarily like a drama or a personal issue with M. Or like a. An. A systemic problem with the podcast. You know, sometimes I'm just like, my knee hurts today.

[B]

You know, sometimes I just say, christine.

[A]

Yeah, well, usually that's the case on your end, but I'll let you speak to that.

[B]

Yeah, well, no, I mean, I was gonna say, like, I've never had a problem with people thinking we're burnt out unless they're saying it to my face that I'm like a disgrace to the show. But no, I've never had a problem with that, with those comments of people thinking we're burnt out. Because even on, like, my bad days, like, I. I love my job. So, like, if people think I sound out, sound burnt out for a day. Okay. Like, as fun as it is for other people to listen to the show, this is our job. Like, there are days where you might really like your job. You're just still kind of like, tired, you know?

[A]

So, yeah, that's what it is. It's like, it's that idea that, like, it has to get done and.

[B]

And it's like, no fault too. It doesn't mean to be a fault to the show, but one of the best things about our show is that. But the way that this show even came to be is people got to listen to us become friends, and now they're involved in our weekly lives and they're gonna be weeks where we're not, like, super chipper. And like, it doesn't have anything to do with the show. It's just like, I'm a grown ass adult and the world's on fire, so sometimes I'm gonna be a little sad, you know?

[A]

Yeah. But guess what? Sometimes it does have to do with the show. Like, I just want to give some credit when people say, like, oh, well, they're on a book tour and a live showing. Yeah, like, yes, it probably does get to a point where it's like, jeez, they're taking on a lot. And like, yeah, we are. And like, we have talked about that, you know, this year especially, or this upcoming for 2025.

[B]

And like, we talked about in front of everybody too.

[A]

We've openly said we're not doing a fall tour. You know, we're not doing any book signings this year. We're very. We're just being more, you know, intentional and conscientious in that way. So, like, I just also want to point out, like, yeah, if you do sense that that's probably true or at least like, to some extent. And I. It's not a. I just want people to know it's not a bigger issue. Like, it's not like, oh, we just hate. At least not for me. I. I don't suspect for em either. Like, we would like to please keep doing this show forever. So we want you all to enjoy it and have a good time. And that's like the ultimate thing because there would not be a show otherwise. And so, you know, we've never taken a week off before. And some people were like, I'd really prefer they take a week off than post a live episode. And I'm like, oh, I didn't know that. You know, maybe that's something the majority of people thinks. And I just didn't know. So I just feel like I was like getting a lot of interesting takes that I hadn't seen before that we can then just, just mull over and, you know, if it doesn't work for us, we just leave it on the cutting room floor. So either way, we're, we're, we're. We're listening. I, I hear all the, all the, like, feedback. And you know, this is just a small sampling, right, of like, all the listeners. So I don't know necessarily what the majority of people believe or think, but I guess today was like the first day where I didn't just fully resist, like defensively resist from a post and wow, like, dissociate. And instead I just like took it fully in and was like, processing it. And I. I don't know. I mean, there's.

[B]

I don't know if I'm proud of you or scared of you. I don't.

[A]

Well, it's. It was like bizarre. I've never done that before. And it's very eye opening. You know, I just started, like. I literally had tears just streaming down my face, but it wasn't. Okay, here's what I'll say. It wasn't that I was necessarily. I was a little bit hurt by some of the comments because it's just human nature, but I think it was much less bad than the times I've cried because of a post because it wasn't like I was trying to fight against it. It was just like, it hurts me a bit and I just kind of like cry it out and then it like moves on. It's like I'm not like, clinging to it and like fighting it and saying like, well, how dare they? You know, I want. It's just almost like, you know what, too. They said it. It's out there. I can just let it go. I'm trying. I'm trying. It's really hard.

[B]

That's very, I'm sure, good of you. I couldn't. I certainly am nowhere near that. I mean, it's.

[A]

It's taken a year of really, really, really, really intentional work. So it's still very slow going. But I don't know. I guess the other thing that I kind of like. I was journaling about this before and I think the thing that really hit me because a lot of people kind of made the argument too, which is a fair point, I guess in some ways that like, oh, this is their full time job. Like, like, we deserve a say, you know, and some people were a little, like, took that a little far. And some of the responses were really like wise and gracious and were like, yeah, this is their jobs, but like, this isn't a normal job and we're not their bosses. Like, we, you know, imagine like thousands of people coming in and being like, you're doing your job wrong, you know, and like, it's just, it's a little different. Yes, it is our full time job, but there's like, you know, and so that's why we do care about it so much. But there's some sort of like weird helplessness. Like I, you know, work feedback is like, oh, you get feedback on how quickly you turn in a report or if you're not bold enough in sales meetings or whatever. The right. I don't know, I don't have a normal job. But when you go on and let's like reading critiques of like your full time job and it's like, oh, Christine has taken on a lot with parenting, you know, it's like it gets so much more personal. And it's like about you and your identity. It's like, oh, so and so is not not as funny as they used to be or so and so so annoying. No, these aren't real examples. I'm just saying, like, you know, they're so annoying. I'm just thinking of like podcast reviews where people are like, oh, their voice sucks. Like, it's things where, like, in a quote, normal job, you know, you do get all that feedback and criticism as well, obviously. And it's not easy.

[B]

Your performance and not your personality.

[A]

This is like one step further into like, like confronting your identity. Right. And so anyway, I was just basically.

[B]

Your boss being like, yeah, your numbers are really good. But I gotta be honest, there some. You kind of. I can't.

[A]

Terrible mom.

[B]

I can't stand your voice.

[A]

Why do you breastfeed? It's like, get a better vocabulary. No, these are, again, these are all examples. None of this is on there. I'm not saying anybody said this. I'm just like throwing out hypotheticals. But anyway, I just like at one point just started crying and I thought like, I feel like it's the Truman show where you like hop on just to see like what people are saying. And it's like, like, oh, they used to be so much more interesting now they're just, like, lazy and boring, you know? And it's like, wow. It just really is a very stunning, like. Well, it's also a system.

[B]

It's also. I mean, there's nothing wrong with getting your feelings hurt when people attack your character. They also don't actually know you in real life, so.

[A]

Exactly. And.

[B]

But that.

[A]

That's part of it is like, there's a helplessness where it's like. It's like you're on mute and everyone's talking about you, and you can't, like, defend yourself or, like, explain something. And I guess that's what this was an attempt to do, right? Like, just kind of openly say, like, I see you. And if. Even if I don't agree with you or think you're wrong, like, that's fine. I still see you. And it's. I'm glad that you're listening and posting your feedback. That's fine. That's allowed. And we, again, we want to do this show forever. So, like, please stay with us. And we want it to be enjoyable. But anyway, as I was going through this and, like, reading all this stuff, Blaze walks in the room and he goes, hey, I just found out I have to get surgery. I'm like, dude, what the.

[B]

On what?

[A]

And then I just started laughing. I'm like, this is like a cosmic joke. I don't know what is. So he. Is he okay? He tore his lcl. It's grow. It's gross, but it basically just give ahead if you're really grossed out. It tore off the femur, and he has to get it, I guess, surgically reattached. So he went in today, and I just got a text surgery, and I was like, oh, my God. So anyway, it just has felt like a very weird day. And I'm sorry. This was very, like, all over the place. But if people. I think people are rightfully so, like, wondering sometimes, like, where. And I. It's human nature to speculate and be like, I wonder if they still like doing this. I wonder if they're still friend. You know?

[B]

I mean, yeah, that doesn't bother me. Me. But I. It. I could. So. Yes. I don't know about you. I'm having a great time. So. Yeah.

[A]

And I just wanted to say that. I just want to say, like, don't worry. We're still here. There's nothing to fear. My little thirsty rats. Oh, Somebody was very upset with. And I felt bad. Somebody was very upset with the way I reacted when. Remember that day when I was like, what even is a thirsty rat? Is that a thing? Like, it sounds like Christine was so mean about it. And I was like, no, no, I really just thought, like, I missed like it would a joke from Parks and Rec or something, you know, and then I was like, oh, it's a thing you invented. And then I. Anyway, I felt like an asshole.

[B]

So, yeah, leave me in my rats alone.

[A]

I know, I know, I know. And I fully embrace it now. So I'm, I listen. I'm learning a lot about myself, about everybody. I'm so sorry. This is the longest intro ever.

[B]

Well, I'll also say the last nuance to all this is that when people say that, oh, we're different, it's like, yeah, we're not 24 anymore. Like, it's like, I know, but a.

[A]

Lot of people even said, like, it took me a while to realize, but like, they were different, but I was different. Like, people listening were. Like, I realized, like, I wasn't in college anymore and I had a full time job and it's like, yeah, so we're changing for sure, big time. But like, everyone listening is changing because it's years of time.

[B]

I, I don't think of us as like the oldest podcast out there. There's certainly ones older than us. But I do know that we are one of the podcasts that's been around a lot longer than like the COVID boom where everyone bought a microphone at home, you know, so, like, I, I think compared to other podcasts people are listening to, we are maybe one of the only ones that they're listening to where there is such a long timeline where you can see us ag. So I wonder if that's why it seems so different compared to other podcasts for them, because a lot of people who were 24 when they started a podcast, that was like two years ago, like, so I wonder if, like, we are just like, I wonder if this is one of those things that hasn't been discussed or observed yet with podcasters, is that after a long enough time, like, you, not only do you feel like they're friends through the parasocial relationships, but, you know, a whole chunk of our lives. I mean, we're coming up on like 10 years soon you're gonna know like a third of my life. And I've reported every week on what's going on. So it, it'll be, it'll be interesting. But I mean, it's, it's a fascinating thing that has yet to be studied, I suppose.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So Anyway, I think. I also think it's interesting. Oh, you're crying.

[A]

I don't know. I don't know why. This just, like, got me so hard today. I was like, holy. And I think part of it is, like, there's just, like, thousands of people. There's, like 24, 000 people in that group just, like, interested in our show and talking about our show, whether it's good or bad. And, like, most of it's good, but I'm just like, whoa. It was like, just so. I think, like, I'm not used to just, like, fully relaxing into discomfort or whatever it is, and I think I just, like, dove in. And I was like, let's just see. And I think, like, I took so many different things away that it'll take me a while to process, but I feel like, sure. The big one is, like, people have been here for years, and I was just like, I don't want anyone who's, like, been listening for six years and, like, is along for the ride to feel like, oh, they're just. Not that. That. Not that people are saying that, but, like, I just want to reassure anyone that, like, don't worry, we're not. Even if people are making comments or whatever, like, we're not going anywhere. We're. This is, like, our livelihood and our passion. So we love it and we'll. We'll listen to feedback. We can shift things if need be, but, you know, we're. Or don't. Keep it on. Keep it on.

[B]

I think also, it's not that, like, I'm speaking for you and your feelings.

[A]

Here we go.

[B]

But, like, I think that you're. It's. It's not just, like, you're letting yourself take criticism. I think you're just. It's just a new feeling for you to open up completely, vulnerably at all.

[A]

So that's the big thing. Exactly. Like, I, like, never cry anymore. And I thought it was always my Zoloft, but now I'm like, oh, no. I just don't let things, like, get that far. Like, I would get things to my eyes and then they wouldn't go any further. And today I was like, oh, my God, I'm crying. But it wasn't sad crying. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm crying about happy.

[B]

Like, yeah, well, that's because I think one of the. Just like you said, one of your feelings is, like, even realizing that people have been with us this long.

[A]

So it's, like, so touching and poignant and, like, just like, so heartening and, like, validating. I don't know, it just feels like community a little bit. And I think it's been hard. I don't know, it's sometimes isolating podcasting because you're like, just talking and you don't know that people are listening. I don't know. It's hard to know.

[B]

It's very easy to forget that people are listening. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So it was just a very, like, overwhelming amount of emotion and love and.

[B]

Well, I think that I would. I would think if I were in your shoes, the big feeling I would be having is like, trying to figure out how to balance really vulnerable kind notions and really vulnerable critical emotions.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And not knowing how to juggle that right now because you. By opening the door, it's like the Pandora's box reaches everything at you. So maybe the, the criticisms are, are the easiest to pay attention to, but in reality, the fact that they're even here is. And saying things and caring enough to say something is interesting.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I think that's what I'm focusing on. So thank you also, m. For letting me just say, like, I'm gonna say something emotional and cry anyway. Ready, set, go. And you're like, okay, let's clap. So thank you for letting me just, like, totally.

[B]

I can't control you anymore, Christine.

[A]

Apparently now I interrupt you more than you interrupt me. So we gotta balance it out again. We are changing the old ways. I know. It's like, it's so funny somebody even said, like, yeah, you know, I feel the opposite. I guess they just can't win. I love that. It's so self aware. Like, I actually don't like these kind of stories when they do them, but I guess you do so well.

[B]

That's why I can't win. That's why I went on my little tirade a while ago because people were like, I love the ghost stories. I hate when they spice it up. But then other people are like, like, are they always going to be ghost stories? I'm so annoyed of the ghost stories. I wish they would have a variety. So.

[A]

Okay. But again, the difference too is like, if you're like Brad Pitt or something, you're just like, people have these opinions, like, g, you were so bad in this movie, or he was so hot back then, or you so. But he, like, there's not that closeness to the feedback from random people. Right. Like, there's not the, like, relationship you have with your listeners that, like, we do where it's like, much More intense, I'll say.

[B]

That's why I even stopped having as much of a relationship with our researcher, which, like, like it was nothing that they did. But I. Because I was getting feedback like that of people just not liking the topics that are being picked or not liking the research, I was like, I'm gonna take the researcher out of this altogether and just go see if I can. See if I can fix the problem.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't know, I still get the exact same amount of feedback, so researcher or not, you guys seem to love and hate me.

[A]

Well, but then we knew that would happen. It's like that's what happens when you grow a following. Like, you're not. Not everyone's gonna love what you do. And, and I just, I always knew that. But I think I'm finally like, accepting it consciously. And I like saying that's okay. Not everybody has to listen. But anyway, to those of you who have been here forever and are still here 30 minutes in, I'm so sorry, but. Love you all. And we're not going anywhere. So I guess it's time for a story now.

[B]

Sure. Yeah, we can redirect. Okay, well, for transparency, I did these notes 100% on my own. So if you have a problem with.

[A]

So we'll see.

[B]

This will at least if you're gonna give feedback on Reddit later, it'll be honest because you'll know that a researcher was not involved in these.

[A]

Fair point.

[B]

Let me tell you a story. One time I was in need of a doctor. In fact, I was crying to Christine about how badly I needed a doctor and I did not know what to do. Christine sent me over to ZocDoc and it was truly a dream. It really, really saved me.

[A]

Game changer. Zocdoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to inst an appointment. No phone calls, no, like none of these like waiting to see what appointments they have. It's all there.

[B]

We're talking about booking in network appointments with more than a hundred thousand doctors across every specialty from mental health to dental health, primary care to urgent care, and more.

[A]

You can filter for doctors who take your insurance, are located nearby, are a good fit for any medical need you may have, and are highly rated by verified patients. And once you find the right doctor, you can see their actual appointment openings. Sometimes you can book an appointment that day, which I have done. I love to use use ZocDoc for literally every and any malady I may have and I. I just. I think their service is so cool. I found it years ago before we ever even had a podcast. So it's very cool and very full circle to have them on as a sponsor.

[B]

Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com drink to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's z o c-o c.com drink sockdoc.com drink this new year. Why not let Audible expand your life by listening? Explore over 1 million audiobooks, podcasts and exclusive Audible originals that'll inspire and motivate you.

[A]

Just open the app and tap into your well being with advice and insight from leading influencers, experts and professionals. Whatever your focus or interest, there is a listen for it on Audible.

[B]

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[A]

Ultimately, it's all about starting good habits. Making a positive change is the best resolution you can make for yourself. And Audible can help. There's so much opportunity and more to imagine when you listen.

[B]

Let Audible help you reach the goals you set for yourself. And start listening today when you sign up for a free 30 day [e-mail] drink. Okay, I mentioned last week when I covered the Gyra Ghost that it was the second most popular poltergeist in Australia, followed by or following the Humpty Doo poltergeist.

[A]

Oh, you know, I'm ready for this.

[B]

So I decided to do that. So this is the Humpty Doo poltergeist. So do you know what Humpty Doo even means? Because I obviously did not know.

[A]

No, a hill.

[B]

Okay, that's fair. I can see why you thought that.

[A]

No, that's a very nice, like, gentle parenting way to tell me I'm so wrong.

[B]

You're crying a lot. So I'm just going to be like really gu fragile today. Hey, idiot. You were actually wrong.

[A]

I take it. I embrace it. I'm an idiot now.

[B]

Humpty Doo is like a slang in Australia for Topsy Turvy.

[A]

Oh, okay, Interesting.

[B]

Everything's all Humpty Doo.

[A]

That totally makes sense to me when.

[B]

You say it like that. I got it immediately.

[A]

Yeah. In the context.

[B]

Yeah. So the Humpty Do. Oh, oh, sorry. And not only is it slang, it's called the Humpty Doo Poltergeist because there's also a town called Humpty Doo. Oh, so it's like a town. The Humpty.

[A]

But is it like, offensive, like, oh, everything's backwards there, or is it just like. It just happened to be a catchy name name?

[B]

I really hope that they celebrate Opposite Day.

[A]

Oh, wouldn't that be fun?

[B]

Honestly, I really hope that it's.

[A]

Well, I mean, it's like having a town called Topsy Turvy in the States. Like, we'd be like, oh, everything there's upside down, you know, I don't know.

[B]

A lot of. A lot of people have ruined this, as I say it, but January 6th should be topsy Turvy Day. And I say that because in Hunchback Notre Dame there was Topsy Turvy Day and it was January 6th.

[A]

What's.

[B]

What there was the Topsy Turvy Day. That song.

[A]

I have no clue. I.

[B]

Something about the 6th of January, I think, anyway, in an America, it certainly is a Topsy Turvy Day.

[A]

Thrilling. Yeah.

[B]

But. Yeah. So if you wanted to have a true Humpty Doo day, according to. We just had one there. You have a date. So. Okay. Humpty Doo is one of the best documented poltergeist cases of all time. Certainly it's known as the. The most famous one in Australia. And anybody who went into the Humpty Doo poltergeist house, none of them ever left a skeptic.

[A]

No one.

[B]

Nobody. Nobody. And there was a lot of people. So it starts in 1998, and this happened in a rental house. This is 90 McMinn's drive, which as of 2021, it was abandoned. So I don't know if it's because of the government ghost or because it was just a rental house that's probably not being used anymore. It was in Humpty Do Australia because of the ghosts. Okay, sure. Yeah. Let's say it's what my research.

[A]

Who's gonna get right.

[B]

This is in Humpty to Australia. It's 45 minutes from Darwin, Australia. I say that because apparently Humpty do is like a very small town.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

There were five housemates living together. Pictures of them let you know that these housemates, I mean, they look like the Sons of Anarchy. Like they are like. Like billiard, pool hall. Like motorcycle guys.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

[B]

That's what. That's at least the vibe they gave. I don't know if I'm.

[A]

I never watched that show. And I was like, is that a zombie one? I forget I was like, what do they look like?

[B]

No, it's ones where they look like they could hit you with a pipe and it would be expected.

[A]

So scared. Yeah. I'd be like, yeah, that's sounds right. Yeah.

[B]

And I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

[A]

Yeah, they.

[B]

They seem.

[A]

With love. Yeah.

[B]

I watched interviews with them and everything. They seem like lovely people. But also, I'll say, a lot of times the. The, like, scary mustache muscle bikers are the nicest people out there, so. Yeah.

[A]

And they're usually maybe the more skeptical ones in. In historically speaking, you know.

[B]

Yeah. Or at least they. They're. They're the ones that are tough as nails. They, like, they own the. Afraid of no Ghost, the Salty Spittoon. So. Yeah, let's put it that way. They all look like they belong. These.

[A]

That actually is the perfect analogy. Thank you.

[B]

And so there was five of them. There was Andrew and Kirsty, who were a couple. There was Dave and Jill, who were a couple. And then there was their bachelor friend, Doug Murphy, who also went by Murph.

[A]

Bachelor Doug.

[B]

Bachelor Murph. Yeah, he. I only say that to let you know that that's. I don't know, his relationship status.

[A]

Fifth wheel.

[B]

Yeah, fifth wheel. So it was Andrew and Kersey, Dave and Jill, Murph.

[A]

Does he ride a unicycle? They all have to ride. Remember when I said I'd stop interrupting and then I just, like, can't. It's like, intrusive thoughts. I just.

[B]

Okay, first of all, I encourage the interrupting. The whole point of the podcast that everyone seems to like is the banter, so if you stop talking, I'm gonna have a problem. Just to clear the air for everybody there. So Dave and Jill, one of the couples, they moved into the house a year before anyone else said, and they never had any activity. So I think that's where they say, I wash my hands from this. This is not my fault. Okay, but when Andrew and Kirsty moved in. And by the way, they also had a little baby named Jasmine, who doesn't really get much. Much play in this story.

[A]

Probably for the best.

[B]

But when Andrew, Kirsty, and their baby moved in, that's when activity began. So.

[A]

Okay, well. Well, they have a lot of explaining to do. That baby better speak up.

[B]

Up, Jasmine. So one night, all the roommates, they were on the porch and they were watching a storm come through. Now, I watched a conference from the Parapsychological Research Institute or whatever, where they were talking all about the importance of, like, poltergeist. Coming during storms because of all the electricity in the air and blah blah blah.

[A]

So okay, that was static energy.

[B]

That's one big, big argument about like how this came to be. There are several theories, but one of them I like the storm. Yeah. Because then you can say oh, things haven't been the same ever since the storm.

[A]

The storm. And then, and then the lightning behind the, the spittoon. The what? What is it?

[B]

The salty spittoon.

[A]

Salty spittoon. Like there's lightning.

[B]

So all five of them are hanging out on the porch watching the storm. Which sounds lovely. That's what it's on.

[A]

Dream life. Yeah.

[B]

While out there they felt like little pebbles kind of hitting them during the storm. And at first they might have thought like oh, they're ricocheting from the storm, like rocks are coming up. But they noticed one these were identical to the stones in their gravel driveway. So they were definitely coming from their driveway. And the storm hadn't hit that close yet. I think the storm had hit that close. Excuse me. But the. So they knew the stones were coming from their driveway. They originally thought they were ricocheting from the storm, but they realized that they were were being thrown pretty much at face like they were. They were just being thrown as if someone was chucking little rocks at them.

[A]

Like from standing position or something.

[B]

Yeah. So they thought, interesting. Like maybe this is like a friend who stuck onto our property is playing a prank on us. Maybe someone's playing a prank on us. Which like I can't imagine getting in my car, driving over to somewhere and then finding a way to prank them by taking rocks.

[A]

I can't wait to do this to em later when they're like I'm not gonna go outside. I have a gut feeling I'll encounter a true crime. It' be me in the bushes with some gravel.

[B]

I'd be like I hate this. But they, I guess their first thought was that they were there was someone on the property pranking them. And they actually walked around the property. They couldn't find anyone. They even called out and said haha, like hurry up. Like we, we know what you're up to.

[A]

And also the storm's coming through. Please come inside.

[B]

Yeah, well you hope it's a friend. You hope it's not a stranger who just showed up and started throwing rocks. You. But nobody ever, you know, said that it was them. They just were like, oh, that's weird. I don't know how to explain these rocks. Let's all go inside. They go inside and now even Though they are inside, they keep hearing these pebbles getting thrown at the house. And then they hear a bunch of them end up on the roof, as if someone took a handful and threw them up and they landed on the roof.

[A]

Like a clattering.

[B]

Yeah. But they look around outside. No one is close enough to the. No one's outside, period. But certainly not close enough to have hit the roof. So they're like, how are rocks showing up on the roof? So they climb into the crawl space up on the. In the ceiling, like, in the loft. And when they get into the loft from the inside of the house, it starts raining rocks on them.

[A]

What?

[B]

As if the rocks somehow were thrown up into the air, like. Like. What's the right word? Went through the roof to come inside the house and then drop on them.

[A]

Oh, my God. So it materialized, like, through the.

[B]

And they were the same rocks from outside. And not only that, but even though it was raining outside and all the rocks outside were currently wet, these were bone dry and warm to the touch.

[A]

Warm.

[B]

Yeah. So they. I mean, at that point, it's like, what do you do? Like, you just hope that you knocked something around in the sauna. You hope.

[A]

Some hot rocks, some steam. Sounds peaceful.

[B]

And during the rain, you can hear the rain hitting the roof.

[A]

You don't even need a sound machine.

[B]

Mama me, not the rain.

[A]

You can hear all the rocks hitting the roof. Very, very delightful ASMR experience.

[B]

And it was a corrugated tin roof. So, you know, the rocks were, like, clattering around.

[A]

Yeah. And then bouncing.

[B]

Yeah. So anyway, I don't know what I would do. Chrissy would have a sauna. I would panic and cry, and I'd say, let's go to a real sauna and get off this property.

[A]

Okay. I'd say, well, you have a perfectly good one at home.

[B]

Well, it does feel like a salty spittoon version of asana. So, like, let the rocks hit the corrugated tin roof.

[A]

Biker spa.

[B]

Since they did.

[A]

Rusty corrugated metal. Oh, my God.

[B]

After this incident, they were like, okay, that's weird. But it didn't end. Not only were the rocks raining on them, they were now getting pelted at, like, eye level still by these. By nothing. It's as if the rocks were showing up midair and throwing themselves.

[A]

And. And they were rock. They weren't like hail. Right. Like, they were.

[B]

They were gravel from the driveway.

[A]

They were gravel.

[B]

Okay. Well, every time the pebbles were gravel from the drive driveway.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And the same. Yeah, it was the same stones from their driveway where now somehow they were Materializing and flying at the roommates. When they went to bed that night, the housemates heard some of the rocks still hitting the walls in different rooms. And it was so loud that not only did it scare Jill and Kirsty and, like, they were, like, crying. Apparently. They're like. I mean, they're salty spittoon ladies. And they were, like, crying. They were so scared. And all of them barely got any sleep because they just kept hearing fucking rocks hitting their house and inside. Like, they were hearing them, like, in the other room.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So they didn't know what to do. And also, I'd be scared to go to bed. What if the rocks show up and hit me while I'm sleeping?

[A]

Yeah. I don't feel safe with that. Like, is like, what is it gonna do when I'm unconscious?

[B]

Yeah. And for the next few days and nights, things just kept getting worse and worse. And it eventually became their new normal.

[A]

The storm has passed. Right? Like, we're not, like, in storm zone still. Like, storm has gone through and the rocks are still going.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Okay, gotcha.

[B]

Not only these are. This is a day later. And now more and more days go by. Not only are the rocks being thrown around the house, but they are still appearing out of nowhere from the ceiling and dropping on them. Many of the stones from. They're calling it, like, raining that it's raining on them.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Other objects begin flinging themselves throughout the house seemingly out of nowhere. Even if it's an item. Item of theirs, it seems to be just appearing and then hitting them. Which answers our lifelong question.

[A]

Yes. Yes. The materializing. It's like it doesn't move. Well, I guess it could in this case. Jinx.

[B]

But so, yeah, it's. Their things are just flying at them. And it becomes so often like, I'm. When I tell you this is happening all the time. Like, there's not a moment like you. Anyone can walk in and at any moment. You're literally never seen flying.

[A]

Fantastic.

[B]

And it seemed to like certain objects more than others because it became something that would fly around all the time. They called these items frequent flyers.

[A]

No, wait. Okay.

[B]

And these items were double A batteries, which are hard. Oh, that would hurt like a wrenches.

[A]

What I spoke.

[B]

Shards of broken glass.

[A]

Get out of here. Here.

[B]

Steak knives and bullets is my Here knife.

[A]

Frequent flyer. I feel like you would name that frequent flyer as, like, a little creepy little pun, but. Oh, no.

[B]

Of all things in my life, an initiation to get into the salty spittoon is letting them take a handful of broken glass Knives and bullets and throw it at you, like, totally, totally. Maybe he's trying to, like, initiate himself into the gang. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, maybe he's just, like, a really tough, tough as nails poltergeist.

[B]

I guess. How salty. How. How tough are you?

[A]

How tough are you?

[B]

But, yeah, so batteries, wrenches, glass, knives and bullets. Those are the.

[A]

That's honestly very funny.

[B]

I mean, they're. And it's always a little too close for comfort, and, like, knives would just get stuck in the wall.

[A]

Okay. So that's what I always wonder. You and I have talked about this too, of, like, is it on purpose or is that, like, there's a law, like, that they can't actually kill you? You know what I mean? Like, is there some sort of, like, force field that somehow prevents a demon or a ghost?

[B]

Like, is there a God who, like, it has to keep the balance and, like, says, you can't do this? Yeah.

[A]

Is there some weird, like, energy they can't penetrate? Or is it, like, they're just trying to scare you? They're not even trying to kill you? You know, I always wonder that.

[B]

Yeah. And I think also, I always wonder.

[A]

If ghosts are trying to kill you.

[B]

I do. Also in that. That lecture I watched, they were.

[A]

Look at you being all intellectual now.

[B]

Well, usually I wouldn't say that, but now I feel the need to prove myself.

[A]

I know, right?

[B]

But they. They were talking about how they're big believers, that poltergeists cannot hurt you. They've never hurt you. And if they do hurt you, then it's not a poltergeist, it's something else.

[A]

Right. Because, well, poltergeist also is like a manifestation of your. Of a. Of someone's energy. Right. So it's not even necessarily like a demon, demonic entity. It's like, it's. Wow, that's interesting. Okay, so that makes sense then why it would go right past your head. I mean, in some ways that I.

[B]

Just said ice cube, so I know.

[A]

That'S why I keep talking, but. Okay, okay.

[B]

Shut the up.

[A]

Just gonna make my point. So you didn't have to explain your ice, but okay. It's fine.

[B]

Just go on. Okay. Sorry about that. Know that. So one other thing that I'll say, which is, like, so fascinating, and you. And I would have pulled this too, is that with these frequent flyer items, they literally come up with, like, a drawer or like, a box outside of the house to leave all the frequent flyers in, and then something will fly by them minutes later, and it has somehow Left the drawer and is now.

[A]

It'S fully, like, transporting itself to somewhere else. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

They were even. There was one story that. That, yeah, teleporting. There was one story. One of the guys said that, like, they. A steak knife flew past him, and then he went, oh, that's weird. Picked it up, put it in.

[A]

That's weird.

[B]

After so long, it just became normal for them. So. But it flew past him. He, like, looked at the knife, put it in a drawer, and then minutes later, it flew past him again, even though the drawer hadn't opened. And then when he opened the drawer, the knife was gone. So, like.

[A]

So it like, fully just dematerial realized and rematerial. Yeah. That's fucking gross.

[B]

And I mean, it was happening all. All the time. They. Sometimes it would happen 20 times in a minute. Sometimes it would happen once every 20 minutes. Sometimes there were like, days where it only happened twice. And those were like your good days when the knife only flew twice.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then eventually the house also started trashing itself, like, in very poltergeist form. So they would find everything destroyed. They woke up one day in their CD player and their stereo were not the stereo up back in the 90s. Do you. You touch a man's stereo?

[A]

Shit's expensive. Kidding me. I mean, Radio Shack. I mean, that's expensive. Yeah.

[B]

And back then, stereos were like. They took the whole wall. They were like £100.

[A]

Like today. That's like someone's home entertainment system, you know, like, you don't with that and.

[B]

You know, like, maybe throw a knife.

[A]

At everybody, but you can't with their stereo.

[B]

You know, they hated. Like, they're like metal slasher music. I assume they listen to.

[A]

Yeah, they're like, just break the CDs.

[B]

I'm also totally stereotyping them. They might like classical, you know, I.

[A]

Feel like ever since you said Salty Spittoon, I just can't get those tough guy. How tough are you guys? Out of my head.

[B]

Let me see if I can find a picture of them. Humpty Doo.

[A]

If you didn't watch spongebob, you. You're missing out on the salty splatoon reference. But it's basically like they just. Spongebob tries to be tough enough to get in, and they're just kind of like the biker bars of the sea.

[B]

I. Oh, man, where the hell. I saw a picture and I should have. I should have saved it. Oh. And any picture I show you, it just looks like a guy with a goatee. But when they're all next to each other. Like they look like a band. They look like. They look like, like the salty spittoon. I don't know how else to explain it to you. I'll. I'll find a picture later and show you.

[A]

Okay? I can't wait.

[B]

Okay. So their CD and their stereo, Their CD players, their stereos are being thrown against the floor by themselves. Their windows are shattering, which is what the broken glass is coming from. Their beds are undoing themselves all the time. Like they would just walk into a room after making their bed and the mattress is leaning up against the wall and the bedding is on the floor. And they even said, like, it's a daily occurrence where you. They would just say to each other, your mattress is on the wall again. Mattresses on the wall again. And they come and redo their bed.

[A]

What a funny ass.

[B]

Eventually I just keep it on the wall every morning I woke up, put it on the wall, just sleep on.

[A]

I just sleep on the. Sleep on the wall. Well, no, that wouldn't work.

[B]

Floor find into their rooms, find their bedding completely undone. Appliances removing themselves off the shelves. You could hear scraping and banging sounds. Inside the walls. There were piles of stones now just appearing out of nowhere just like stacked on top of each other.

[A]

Ew, that's so poltergeisty.

[B]

And they didn't really know what to do. So despite not being religious, they called in a priest, because what else do you do? You might as well just give it a shot. There was Father D'Souza. And he pretty much as soon as he came in, activity began. This is actually a quote from like. As soon as he walked into this house, one of the residents screamed out, father. And when he turned to respond, he saw a knife that had been on the kitchen counter flying straight for him. And he felt that he didn't have time to react when the knife was just a few feet from him, it stopped just as though it had hit something and fell to his feet. No. Okay.

[A]

Cuz I was going to say. Well, you could argue like, oh, the guy threw it at him when he wasn't looking. But the stopping in midair thing is, is.

[B]

And as if it. As if it had hit something and then dropped.

[A]

Shocking.

[B]

So I wonder if, like, what we couldn't see is it was like holding it like a murderer and then like, just wanted to scare it and drop that. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, yuck.

[B]

He. Father D'Souza believed that the entity was attached to someone who was unaware they were a medium. Which is an interesting take.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

And he tried to bless the house, but after only three days of silence and peace, the activity was back. So they had to call another priest in because they were like this guy and cut it. So we got to bring it up.

[A]

Obviously not.

[B]

So then they bring in Father English. Tom English. I honestly, I don't know if I'm impressed or mad at this. I don't know if this is like a thanks priest situation.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But he walks in and he straight up just says, I can't do anything.

[A]

Okay. Listen, you gotta love someone who admits honesty. Yeah. Who admits. When they're not up for the task.

[B]

Would you say simplicity, authenticity, and openness?

[A]

Yeah. Careful with those fingers. Fingers. You're going to set off more balloons or hot air balloons or. I don't know what's going to happen.

[B]

But since your laptop sucks.

[A]

Yeah, here we go. Simplicity, authenticity. What was the other one? And openness.

[B]

And he was all three of those in one sentence there.

[A]

Finally.

[B]

Finally. Yeah. He basically comes in, he says, I'll help however I can. Nope. I've tried. I'm sorry.

[A]

I really thought mine would be different.

[B]

Do you want to do the balloons? That's. That's a piece.

[A]

I tried that when I did, too.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

The balloons are really comforting. Thank you. That actually helped. That makes me feel better. Thank you.

[B]

It's like taking a breather. Yeah. So he comes in and he's like, I'll help however I can, but I gotta be honest, like, there's not much I can do. Because he believed that when poltergeists are ready to leave, then they'll stop with their bullshit. But there's really nothing you can do in the meantime. You just gotta, like, rock it out.

[A]

Well, that's bucks.

[B]

Yeah. And so he showed up apparently four different times, and he saw many items hurl across the house, including.

[A]

He couldn't do anything. He just kept showing up to watch the spectacle.

[B]

Yeah, I guess to pray with them or something. I don't know. I'd be like priests if I knew I couldn't do anything. I'd be like, I'm not coming back here.

[A]

If I knew I could do something, I'd be like, I can't do anything. And I. So I don't know why he keeps coming back, but.

[B]

Okay, well, so during his stay, he saw. Saw many items hurled across the room, including a bullet that appeared and fell to his feet.

[A]

Ew. Okay, but see, this makes me wonder if instead of someone, like, running at you or whatever or, like, holding it, if, like, it does just projectile but then you like, everybody has maybe like some sort of force field or like energy protect, you know what I mean? Like when it went to the priest and then like fell, like maybe there's some sort of like protection shield, we don't know. Or like energy field, I don't know.

[B]

Or maybe it's like how they do it with green screen and there's just someone in a full blown onesie just.

[A]

Holding the bullet, you know, that seems more reasonable, actually. Yeah, you're right.

[B]

So, Father English, this is a quote from him. He actually gave an interview too. And he was like, you fucking explain it to me. I don't know what's going on.

[A]

Wow. This guy tells it like it is.

[B]

He, he seemed, he seemed like a, like a straight shooter, no pun intended, with this bullet. Yeah, but he, he said everything went berserk. Things were flying around. When I was leaving, a medicine bottle came out of the bathroom. And then the interviewer was like, how did the medicine bottle fly out of the bathroom? And he went, you tell me. I don't know what the.

[A]

Why if I knew.

[B]

It's like I'm actually telling you exactly what happened.

[A]

So my question was, what medicine? But I guess nobody thought to ask that. Whatever.

[B]

Great question.

[A]

I'm curious. I'm like, is it like a talon on PM or is it like a Vicodin? You know, who knows?

[B]

But so, I mean, just walking out of the bathroom all of a sudden, it's. That would freak me. I would think about it in a different way where if I'm leaving a bathroom and now a bottle's being thrown out of the bathroom to like get my attention, I'd be like, were you in there the whole time I was in there? Like, oh, for sure. This is why I'm so scared to use bathrooms in, in haunted houses. The last time we, we can't disclose the location, but we were using their bathroom and I made Christine go in the bathroom with me while I peed. Like, remember?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I was so terrified. And the.

[A]

I didn't find that weird at all. But you seemed very distraught about the whole thing.

[B]

I was terrified that they were.

[A]

I was like, it's terrifying. I'll stand in the bathroom with you. And then you were all upset that I was in the bathroom with you. And I was like, it's fine, I don't mind being.

[B]

I was like, look over there.

[A]

You were like, christine, oh. Ah. I was like, okay, you. I'm trying to help with the ghosts. They're probably in here too. I don't know that, like, me being in here prevents the ghosts from coming in. Now we're all watching you pee, and I don't know how much better that.

[B]

Is in my mind. I thought you could take them while it's like. It's like, you know when dogs, dogs are squatting and they stare at you because they need to look at you to know if they're safe, to sense danger.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I needed to look at you to know that you were looking everywhere.

[A]

Well, you didn't shut up long enough to make sure. You were just like, like, like uncomfortable with me watching you pee. I was like, you gotta focus, my friend, because I'm on high alert.

[B]

I did have a little pee anxiety. I couldn't do it.

[A]

You did. I understand.

[B]

I want to get out of here faster. I can't do it.

[A]

I understand. But you know, the ghosts, I feel like they've seen it all, you know.

[B]

At this point, you know, that's true.

[A]

That's what I tell myself.

[B]

But if. Then can you imagine if we left the bathroom and I was right and then a medicine bottle flew at us from inside? That would have downright terrified me.

[A]

So cool though. Oh my God, I would have just loved that. That would have been awesome.

[B]

Also, I will say the worst part about one of the bathrooms in that place was that there was no light bulb. Like they. Wasn't it like pitch black and you would use a flashlight to pee?

[A]

Yeah, that is true. I'm glad you gave a thumbs up. Thank you, Apple, for always reading the room on Em's part.

[B]

Ok, this, this Father English, he was like. Something got thrown at me. I don't know how to explain it.

[A]

But when he came over, he's watching me poop. Okay. Are you happy now? Thank you, everybody.

[B]

He came over four times, like I said. And when he did the blessings for the group, he ended up leaving his Bible for them, holy water for them, and a crucifix there for them just in case they like, wanted to feel safer.

[A]

Just one of everything, the full toolkit.

[B]

The whole variety pack. But by nightfall. So he shows up, he leaves this Bible with them by nightfall. Or I think one source even said while he was still there, the Bible's pages were ripping themselves out.

[A]

Ew, that's bad.

[B]

Terrifying. The crucifix threw itself around the house with ease and one of the bottles of holy water smashed itself into a wall.

[A]

Oh, that's not a good sign.

[B]

So none of them are going to work for you? After Father English, the tenants imagine the.

[A]

Guy with the Green screen thing. Onesie. Running with the. Running with the little bottle of holy water. Like, I don. Touch it. I don't want to touch it. But he has to smash it.

[B]

I'm just saying green screen technology is basically just making our eyes see ghosts. Like, you just can't see it.

[A]

But isn't a Bible. But isn't a Bible like, burn them or something?

[B]

I would think, but apparently not.

[A]

Not the stuff they can wear gloves. I guess I'm saying now I'm thinking like a true ghost hunter.

[B]

After Father English, the tenants brought in a Greek Orthodox priest because they were like, it, let's try our everything. So he reached for his Bible when he went into the house, and all of a sudden an unseen force attacked him. This was the first time anyone was attacked.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Because things were getting thrown around all the time. But no one had been grabbed. Yeah, and he grabbed for his Bible immediately. This thing was clearly trying to rip the Bible out of his hands. And so the priest was like fighting something with the movie. It was trying to. Whatever this entity was, was trying to twist his arm around his back to get the Bible. So eventually you saw his own arm contorting behind his back and he got thrown into the chair nearby, and he was like, panting and sweating and he was like, I've never seen anything like this.

[A]

Did he stay?

[B]

I don't know. Because we don't see anything else about him. Okay, good.

[A]

Because I don't blame him. I'd be like, change my name. I'm out of here.

[B]

I'd be like, this is too damn much priest.

[A]

The priesthood is not for me after all. I thought I was doing a great job.

[B]

Civilian.

[A]

And then I got attack. Yeah, by a demon.

[B]

So none of these priests were able to help. And some would argue that it only gravitate or gravitated. Art aggravated the poltergeist even more. By the way, in Australia, they were not calling it a poltergeist. They kept calling it a pult, which is the most Australian thing I've ever.

[A]

Seen in my life.

[B]

Oh, this pulp, man. It just. Anyway, so they kept calling it a poll. I'm calling a poltergeist. But yeah, a lot of people said it only aggravated created them. And anytime they said any phrase or mention of a Bible, all of a sudden activity would pick up more after these priests were here.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

See?

[A]

Thanks. Priests all over again. You were right at the beginning to have the same inclination from the very beginning.

[B]

Since I've been saying day one, you've.

[A]

Always said that for real.

[B]

So pebbles are being thrown all the time. This is now like a full blown regular occurrence, minute by minute. Very rarely were there days without a single incident. There were often dangerous items being chucked around. A lot of them, like I said, would narrowly miss them, as if just toying with them. Or maybe there's some rule we're unaware of in the cosmos. Interestingly, the housemates were, like I said, not very scared. Eventually they were just fascinated by this thing. But I think it's because they realized at some point that this poltergeist wasn't trying to hurt them. It was just right.

[A]

They didn't feel as afraid. Maybe.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And it also, weirdly, when the items would hit them, which did not happen a lot, but when it would hit them, all of them felt out of character. Soft. Like apparently when the rocks felt soft.

[A]

Oh, what?

[B]

So when the rocks would hit them, apparently this is a quote. It felt like a marshmallow. So it was truly just trying to get their fucking attention.

[A]

Oh, weird. I wonder what a knife would have felt like.

[B]

I wonder if they would be bleeding.

[A]

Yeah, that would be me going, what does this knife feel like? Ooh. Ooh. That wasn't. I'm so sorry. That's not what I intended to do.

[B]

It would take one really drunk person to just give permission, and then all of a sudden they've got a knife in their hand. Oh.

[A]

Oh, my bad. I thought we were doing that here. No.

[B]

Okay. Plus, the poltergeist had never pulled any of these antics near the baby. Never.

[A]

Oh, that's interesting. Has the baby and the poltergeist ever been seen in the same room? Is a question I have now. I think this gentleman, I feel like, is a little too quiet for my liking.

[B]

She, you know, she should be the loudest in the house. And all of a sudden she's a bit of a recluse. I don't know what's going on there.

[A]

Suspicious.

[B]

I'm gonna write that one down for the theories when I listen later.

[A]

Fishy with jazz.

[B]

It's anyway, because the. This thing was not hurting the baby. It kind of. They knew that. Okay, well, this thing happens to at least, like, have boundaries. Yay. And like, respect our boundaries. That's not going to mess with the baby. Um, so that kind of gave them more reason to brush it off all the time because it was like, well, it's only coming after us, and when it hits us, it feels like a marshmallow. And other than that, it's just like. I mean, it feels like Something that should be happening at the Salty Spittoon. You know, it's like.

[A]

Well, and it's like, now Murph is no longer the fifth wheel because he has a buddy, you know, to partner up with. So it feels like we're all even now.

[B]

You're onto something else, because maybe he had just a really shy girlfriend, and the girlfriend just wanted to let them know. She was like, about that life, you know?

[A]

Yeah. About the life of throwing knives and doing cool tricks.

[B]

She's like, I'm tough, too. I just don't want you to see me, that's all.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I'm just a little shy, that's all. And I hate Greek Orthodox priests. That's one thing you need to know about me. And I also do judo. That's why his arm got all twisted up. Because I'm really good at Judah.

[B]

And also, I do own my own CGI green screen suit.

[A]

Thank you so much for asking. Yeah, I do. I'm practicing.

[B]

So. One of the scarier ways that the poltergeist would interact with them was through messages it left for them through the house.

[A]

Oh, God. What? What do you mean?

[B]

So this did not happen, I don't think right away. One source said that the writing actually happened before anything else, but I didn't see that any on any other source. So I don't know how true that is. I noticed that a few sources. I had to, like, re. Put the timeline back together. It seemed like it was out of place. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But at some point. And the thing that started really freaking them out was when this thing started spelling out words for them, Whether that was in markers and, like, drawing it out or writing it out on a board. They had, like, a whiteboard.

[A]

Oh, that's pretty fascinating.

[B]

Yeah. And it looked really weird, too. Like, that. Like, it looked like the handwriting was, like, draw, like, sloping down. Yeah. Like. Like, as if it was, like, losing energy to hold the mark marker. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, like that old professor falling asleep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's how I would make it less scary for myself.

[B]

They. They also noticed that words were being spelled in literal Scrabble tiles, which is, like, so convenient.

[A]

That is convenient.

[B]

And, like, I would just be having Scrabble tiles all over the place. I'd be like, can you use these instead of knives and just yell what you want from us?

[A]

I'd be like, actually, I have a really tough hand. Can you help me? Do you know any words that I could use?

[B]

Well, then they also started seeing words written out in literal piles of stones.

[A]

EW Those damn pebbles.

[B]

Yeah. So one of the things I'm gonna send you.

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

You know, I poltergeist pictures.

[B]

So first, actually, while we're here, I will show you a few pictures. So this is.

[A]

Going to Geo's Trio or you?

[B]

I'm actually gonna send it to Geo's Trio. I just sent it to YouTube.

[A]

I actually.

[B]

Accident but Geostrio. So this is some of the. This is one of the guys holding a bunch of pebbles that rained on him.

[A]

Shut the up.

[B]

And then this is a close up of the pebbles which, like, you can tell it's just driveway gravel.

[A]

Oh, wow. But they're like kind of like hunks of it. Like they're.

[B]

Yeah, like just small, but they're.

[A]

They're like pretty sizable gravel pieces.

[B]

If they got you in the eye, you're in trouble.

[A]

Yeah, that. That's would hurt.

[B]

This is a picture.

[A]

It's not because it's a marshmallow really or something.

[B]

Picture of the same guy with a bullet that landed on him. I don't know where.

[A]

She's like, yeah, what of it? Jeez. Also, let's talk about their leopard print microwave cover or whatever that is.

[B]

Let's. And then here's a picture of more of the pebbles that would just appear and get thrown around the house. And then.

[A]

Oh my Lord.

[B]

This is another one. I think you'll really appreciate. This is the drawer that they kept putting things in. A freak. The frequent flyer drawer where things would just go missing from the drawer.

[A]

Oh, this is unsettling. It's like a bunch of sharp objects.

[B]

It's literally just like a drawer full of steak knives and like ash trays and glass. Yeah.

[A]

Ashtray. Wow. This is really. Okay. I think what freaks me out, especially about this picture, which we'll put them on social media too. But. But like if you're watching the YouTube just for now is like how candid. Like, she's literally just like, I just woke up from a nap. I'm gonna grab a soda. And walks in the kitchen and like, oh, take a picture. I found more rocks. Like, it just looks like your day to day. Like, oh, look. And she's still in her T shirt and just. I don't know, it. It looks so. Just like they've gotten jaded by it.

[B]

Yeah. So here. I mean it. That's how I. It's like at some point you're just walking around in your underwear like normal.

[A]

Another one. You know, get the camera. Yeah.

[B]

So this is. Found the word, by the way.

[A]

Eva's not on the call, folks. So Em just sent Eva a picture of a drawer full of knives. I'm like, I wonder what she's gonna do.

[B]

I feel like at some point she just thinks like, oh, you like, oh, you.

[A]

We have fun in this group chat.

[B]

I. This is another video I'm gonna see. I think this is Dave or Murph. I. I don't know which who it is, but someone in the house. This is when they discovered the word car are written on the floor and piles.

[A]

I'm already upset about whatever this is gonna look like. No.

[B]

And it was just discovered, like, and it just happened. And a lot of times this would happen within seconds of having just been there and it wasn't there. So there was no. There's not enough time for these things.

[A]

Somebody ran in and, like, pranked them or whatever.

[B]

No, like, it's. It's happening in seconds. And then there was something else I wanted again.

[A]

He's just shirtless. Is like, oh, would you look at that?

[B]

He's, like, in his shorts, just walking around. Probably a cigarette in one of those hands, just going, well, well, there it is. Well, in fact, these are. This is a list that they started keeping of words. I just sent you another picture. These are some of the other words that showed up.

[A]

Oh, no. Oh, my God. Okay, so first of all, there's a picture of a cross is the first one that's not. Not great. There's a picture of what looks like a.

[B]

Like a trident.

[A]

Trident. Yeah. Car. Troy was. Troy was not one of the people, right?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. Help. Fire. Mf Skin. No. Tv. Pig. Camera. Die. Tonight. You die.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hello. I like how it started with car. Like, I'm just learning my spelling, and then I'll get to them more. Right? Like, why would you start with fucking car Are. But. Okay, this is horrifying.

[B]

M. And so for you and others wondering, some of the first words in particular to come out were fire, skin, car, help. And Troy. And.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Two weeks before the poltergeist activity began, one of their friends, Troy, burned to death in a car crash.

[A]

No.

[B]

So fire, skin, car, Help. Troy.

[A]

Holy shit.

[B]

This led many to believe, obviously, that the entity was Troy, trying to make contact with them, the housemates. However, everyone in the world seems to believe that this is, like, one of the most plausible explanations. But the housemates never Believed this was Troy. 1. Because Troy was misspelled. Troy has a U in was T R, O, U. Why? Okay, so why would he spell his own name wrong? Then he also. Why would he Throw knives and bullets at his friends.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

It's like, if you're gonna get someone's attention, you can pick other frequent flyers, like a Rubik's Cube or something, you know? Or like a stuffed bunny rabbit. Like, you don't need to make it like a knife and a piece of glass.

[B]

Yeah. Or like, just like, keep doing the Scrabble tile thing and just say that.

[A]

I mean, he did say help.

[B]

He did say help.

[A]

But I wonder. Well, you know, my first thought was, like, if this is poltergeist activity, maybe somebody in that house was so traumatically affected by that loss of Troy that they're almost like, creating this, like, whirlwind of energy. And it's like.

[B]

And that would be the theory of Murph bringing in the energy.

[A]

Okay, my bad. I didn't mean to get in there, but.

[B]

No, you're good, because Murph and him were best friends. And. And one of the. I didn't see this anywhere, but I think it's interesting that this didn't get mentioned on Murph's arms. He has tattoos of flames which would make skin and fire make sense.

[A]

Oh, my God, you're right.

[B]

But no one else talked about that, so I don't know if that was just, like, taken out of the picture, but anyway, they never thought it was Troy, because why would you misspell your name? Why would you throw knives at us?

[A]

That's weird. Yeah.

[B]

If it were a hoax and one of them was pulling a prank on anyone, this would be like, a joke that's too fucking far into.

[A]

Especially for really close friends and, like, grown ass adults. They're not like, teenagers. Yeah.

[B]

And all of them knew Troy, too. So all of them were in different ways. One of the other thoughts was that the poltergeist was not Troy, but was listening in on these friends grieving a death that happened two weeks ago. And so during this time, to get a rise out of them, was pretending to be Troy.

[A]

So, like, using that to their advantage in some, like, sinister way. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Even at one point, because they were so unsure that maybe this could be Troy or enough people thought it was Troy. Troy's mom literally came to the house at one point to talk to the spirit.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Because, I mean, it's gotta be really hard. Yeah, I'm sure. And because Murph was, like, Troy's best friend. So I wonder if Murph just said, can you come over here and tell me, like, fucking stop throwing knives at us?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Um. So as she came, she came over, she asked if Troy was there, and I guess she was trying to spell something on the floor to see if he would respond. Almost like a Ouija board or something. As she was on her hands and knees, she felt something go through her next to her ear, and a shard of glass fell so close to her face that it went through her hair. And so a lot of people are like, your son wouldn't do that. But she also said it felt like someone was running their fingers through her hair to calm her down. But then does that just, like, validate the theory that everything is, like, weirdly soft and so that's why it felt like a finger, the hair. Or is this Troy only knowing how to, like, use certain objects, but he's making them feel more comforting than they are?

[A]

Are like, if a rock hits you, it doesn't feel hurtful because he's not trying to hurt you, you know?

[B]

Yeah. So a lot of people are like, is this Troy? And he's just, like, using what he can to communicate with you? Or like, is this not Troy just with everyone?

[A]

That's very perplexing. Did she have an opinion at the end of the day? Like, either way, she just didn't know.

[B]

But the housemates decided that it was not Troy. They were like, he wouldn't do this, especially when we're asking for help. And three priests came in and. And, like.

[A]

And he, like, attacked one of them. Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point.

[B]

So. Or what?

[A]

There could be multiple spirits.

[B]

Or there could be multiple spirits and.

[A]

Troy's being held captive by something that won't escape.

[B]

Maybe Troy was saying, help while others are throwing knives. Yeah, interesting. I had thought about that. Or.

[A]

Or he's there to help. Oh, like, I'm here to put a big bubble around the priest so he doesn't get a knife thrown at him or whatever.

[B]

You're thinking like a screenwriter. It's like, there could be a movie about this at some point.

[A]

I'm just saying, tam, tam, tam, tam. Just kidding. Somebody else write it. I don't have the time or energy.

[B]

Well, they were like, this obviously isn't Troy. And so in the most, like, scary, salty, spittoon, Australian way ever, they go around the house just cussing out the poltergeist, being like, we know you're not Troy. Why don't you just off or whatever.

[A]

Like a cockney accent. And the knives, like, throw another knife at me.

[B]

I dare you. Like, they were like, right off, like, this is Not Troy. We know you're not Troy. Like, you're obviously not gonna leave, but, like, don't with our friend at the very least. Yeah, weirdly, that worked. And no more references were ever made about Troy.

[A]

But obviously maybe that was like a boundary that it had to follow, you know, like, it was like, fine.

[B]

Maybe they're like, oh, I didn't know. I took it too far. Sorry. The knives and the bullets, I were fine. But like, I didn't know Troy was the big thing, you know, I didn't.

[A]

Even spell it right.

[B]

Okay, fine, Geez, I'll stop.

[A]

Stop.

[B]

So one night, while the housemates were all drinking in the kitchen, they later found a massive rock pile in the hall next to them, which should have taken, like hours to build. Hours. And it happened in seconds. They were walking past this hallway non stop while they were in the. It's like walking next to the hall in your kitchen and all of a sudden it just appeared. It was the cross and the trident. You just saw that they. That was on that note. It was a massive, like, flat statue, essentially, like a big design of a solid cross and a solid trident. And so which some people think maybe it wasn't a trident. Maybe it was a cross and a devil's pitchfork. Oh, right. Pitchfork and the formation. This is a quote. It was apparently so neat and perfect, it would have taken hours to make with a straight edge, a square and a ruler. And not only. Not only that, but every stone was flat side. So it was all very intentional and being designed.

[A]

Ew. Is there a picture of it?

[B]

I couldn't find a picture of it. No.

[A]

Oh, man. See, then I'm like, why didn't you take a picture? Maybe they just, like kicked it because they were, like, too scared.

[B]

They didn't have time because as soon as they saw it, Dave bent down to look at it and he just went to touch it. And as soon as he touched it, all the stones exploded through the house.

[A]

Huh.

[B]

Every. Every single one of the rocks just shot into a completely different direction. As in, like, don't touch my art.

[A]

If you. If. If you're going to ruin it, I'm going to ruin it first.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Jeez.

[B]

But so the stones flew all over. They hit the walls so loudly that the baby in the other room woke up. And then on top of that, as if that wasn't scary enough, then tools all over the house started appearing and flying into every direction. Tools, which I'm guessing is like a wrench, you know? Yeah. Some sources say that the cross and the Trident made of stones are when they called the priest. But I. Because I was trying to figure out this timeline. Some of the stories said this is when they called the clergy, but a lot of them said, oh, and after they called the clergy, then the cross and the trident appeared. So I don't know which one. Yeah, whatever. At this point, the clergy have been called and.

[A]

And it didn't work.

[B]

It didn't work. And after the priest came in, this is when local news started hearing about the activity.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Many reporters started trying to get access into the house. House and the tenants. They were like just being hounded to do a segment by everybody because everyone wanted a shot at this story. Eventually they made a deal with Channel Sevens Today tonight program, which honestly seems a little tabloidy to me, but that they were the only ones offering the money. And it wasn't a lot of money. It was like two grand. So split four or five ways, that's like 400 bucks each. It's not a lot.

[A]

It probably pays rent for a while while though.

[B]

Sure. Yeah. But it was certainly like the money isn't why they did it.

[A]

Right. Okay, I see.

[B]

I saw that the main reason why they agreed to this station was because it was one of the bigger platforms that reached out to them. And they were like, if they get access to the story, then everyone else will leave us alone.

[A]

I see.

[B]

And they wanted to be left alone because I don't even think it occurred to them that like, anyone would be able to help at this point. So they just were like, okay, come in and do it. And then we want to go back.

[A]

To our normal, get out of my house.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Because also at this point, of course, a lot of people would say, like, why didn't you leave? Not only do I think they couldn't leave, but literally, like big, tough, gruff men, they were just like, it's a nice house. Why would I leave?

[A]

Yeah. And like, whatever. Sometimes he does some weird artwork. It's fine.

[B]

So anyway, they made a deal with Channel seven. Channel seven came in, they brought. Originally the plan was to bring two cameras. They ended up bringing in seven cameras in total and set them all around the house. And they stayed for an entire week. Week and just film.

[A]

God, a week.

[B]

They had hundreds of hours of footage by the end.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

And the camera crew. Although they stayed for a week, within two hours of being there, they were all believers. And I'll tell you about that next week.

[A]

No. Oh my God. This is a two parter. I just knocked everything off. I just knocked over my Mugwort. Hold on. Wow. And them I'll tell you all story. Good story.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

That's my opinion. I don't know what the hell that thinks.

[B]

I don't know. Ask it.

[A]

I'm sure they'll love it. Wow. M Good job. That was that. Wow.

[B]

A two parter doesn't happen a lot.

[A]

Does not. And it's been a while I think especially with like a ghost story. I feel like they're usually like something.

[B]

Everything'S all humpty do. I'm telling you.

[A]

Yeah, I guess it is. I guess it is. Is.

[B]

This new year, new me phase. Every January people decide, oh, I'm going to do something about either weight loss or I'm going to do something about feeling better about myself when it comes to food. And that can mean a lot of different things for a lot of different people. But luckily we have partnered with Fay. And Fay is a revolutionary platform that connects you with your own personal registered dietitian, making expert nutrition guidance accessible and affordable. And the best part, all dietitians on Faye accept insurance. With over 700 insurance plans accepted so you'll likely pay $0 out of pocket.

[A]

It is such a cool system. Okay. Dietitians on Fay work with you one on one to create a customized program tailored specifically to your needs and focus on clinically proven methods to improve your relationship with food. I mean that is like to me priceless. 93% of fake clients reported an improved relationship with food and 85% reached their target target weight. A third party study showed that clients lost 2.9 times more weight working with a dietitian through Fay compared to comparable.

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[A]

Feynutrition.Com drink that's fainutrition.com backslash drink one last time. That's faynutrition.com drink and make sure you use the URL so they know we sent you. Ah yes, another chance to talk about Nutrafol. I've been waiting for this and just like I asked, the universe sent me the copy. Nutrafol. It's my favorite. It's also the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over one and a half million people. See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutrafol. So here's the important part for you to know. Everyone's root causes. Get it? Of hair thinning are different. So a one size fits all approach to hair growth just doesn't cut it. Get it? Nutrafol is multiple formulas. They're tailored to give your hair what it needs to grow through through different stages of your life. Say you're postpartum or menopausal. You know, whatever stage you're in, they have the right formulation for you as well as different lifestyles such as plant based diets. 86% of women reported improved hair growth after taking Nutrafol Women hair growth supplement for six months. I was not in that study, but I can confirm I've had these same results. It's gone to the point where I barely think about my hair anymore, which is a huge deal for me. I used to be so self conscious about it. Start your hair growth journey with neutral Nutrafol. For a limited time, Neutrophil is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. When you go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code DRINK. Find out why over 4, 500 healthcare professionals and stylists recommend Nutriful for healthier hair. Nutriful.com spelled n u t r a f o l.com promo code DRINK that's Nutraful.com promo code DRINK. You know when you get that like repeating bill every, every month from your like cell company and they're like, oh, and this month it's this many dollars. And you're like, what?

[B]

How can that be?

[A]

Why? It wasn't that many dollars and you never really figure out why. It's just like it kind of keeps getting bigger. Well, I don't know about you, but I really found that to be very stressful whenever I worked with traditional big wireless carriers. After years of overpaying, it's, it's, it's enough people. Okay. We switched the podcast to Mint Mobile. We have our iPad on the Mint Mobile plan. It's been very tremendously helpful when we're out and about somewhere in the world and we need to add access data and like say that we don't have maybe good venue. WI Fi. It happens.

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It happens a lot.

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Upfront payment of 45 for 3 month. 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to 15amonth. New customer offer for first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra C. Mint Mobile for details. Wow. Okay, so I thought we were going to still keep going, and then I had to reroute. So here we go. I guess it's my turn. This is the story of Helene, Helene Przeinski Przezinski.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Helene was the youngest of three children born April 5, 1958 in New York to Chester and Henrietta Przezinski. And she spent her childhood on Long island, but moved with her parents to Massachusetts in 1972. And by this point, her older sister Janet and her eldest brother, Chet. Imagine that. Chet Przezinski. That feels like you're hosting the. The Today Tonight Show.

[B]

It feels like when he's playing. It feels like when he's playing cards, he does this, you know.

[A]

Oh, like the lick the finger. Oh, if he's dealer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. So they were already grown, and so she was just at home alone, basically, as an only child. And she was new in town, which was also hard, and 14. And so, you know, it's kind of a tough age. But Helene was not the type to be intimidated. Her mom said she was a strong person and got involved immediately. She made things happen. She essentially dove head first into high school life. She became a cheerleader, homecoming court, honor roll student, like, did it all. Drama, poetry, music. She sang in a choir group or a show choir group. One of her best friends, Midge, said she had a beautiful voice. She was a very good performer. Her voice lit up a room. Right. It's sort of one of those things where, like, they're. They're describing this, like, very popular, successful young woman. And it's sort of like you imagine some people would probably be like, ugh, I hate her. But it seemed like everyone was like, no, she was just great. Like, she was, you know what I mean? Like, all around just one of those people that is. You can't hate, you know? So she seemed like a really. A really wonderful person. They even said her laugh was so unique that they called it. They called her a little songbird. Like, she laughed like a little bird.

[B]

Precious.

[A]

Yeah. There's a recorded interview she did in high school, and she was asked for her philosophy on life. And she said, you should just. I don't Know, be yourself and make the best of everything and smile. That's what I do all the time.

[B]

Okay, you little Brady bunch.

[A]

So Americana, like, 70s. Yeah. And so she really was the type of person who tried everything, but she was very focused on her work at the school paper where she was the editor. So when she graduated, she went to Wheaton College to study journalism, and she continued to pursue her love for performance by joining the acapella group. And they were called. Okay, so this is Wheaton College. They were called the Wheatones.

[B]

Hell, yeah.

[A]

Hell, yeah.

[B]

Hell, yeah, brother. Hell yeah.

[A]

Weren't you in an acapella group? Or is that just something I assume about you?

[B]

Because I was in an acapella sorority.

[A]

That's what it was. Yeah. It was worse than I thought. Okay.

[B]

It was, in fact, worse. It was worse. Yeah.

[A]

What was the name?

[B]

Oh, no, it was just.

[A]

Dare I ask?

[B]

Because it was a sorority. It just had, like, a Greek name. It was just.

[A]

Oh, well, okay, so you didn't have, like, a nickname or anything.

[B]

That makes it twice as, three times as bad, I think, because we didn't have a fun name. Yeah.

[A]

I'd argue maybe a little better. I don't know.

[B]

Oh, okay, great. Well, then we were new Kappa Epsilon. All right. Okay.

[A]

Okay, cool. Sounds important. Anyway, so that is who she was. She was in this acapella group. She was studying journalism, took it very seriously. Her senior year, she was amped when she got an internship at KHOW Radio in Denver, Colorado. So, you know, it's pretty cool. She's in college, but she gets to go all the way to Denver to, you know, spend some time doing an internship. It's kind of like how we went to la, I guess, to do internships. And so she went out to Colorado, Colorado. Her friend and classmate, Kitsy, which. I love that name.

[B]

Kits Short, Kitsy Snow. That sounds like something like. Like Bluey's grandmother.

[A]

Isn't that the cute grandmother? Kitsy Snow. I love it. I think. What is Kits?

[B]

He's short for? I wonder.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Catherine? Cat? Kitty?

[A]

I think. Catherine, maybe.

[B]

Snow is a great last name. You can put a lot with Snow.

[A]

Snow is good. I just read that book, you know, Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. I loved it. About. About. About. What's his name? Oh, you don't know what I'm talking about?

[B]

No, not at all.

[A]

Oh, why are you nodding along like.

[B]

I was like. You were like. Oh, that book. As if I was supposed to.

[A]

Okay, sorry. Hunger Games. Present.

[B]

Oh, present now.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. You okay? There, we got it. We got to it eventually. Okay, so Kitsy. Love the name. Not really sure if it's a nickname or a given name. Kitsy Snow also landed a Denver internship. That's her friend and classmate, so it was very exciting. They got to go to Denver together. So the young women moved across the country at the end of 1979 to Englewood, a small city within the Denver metropolitan area. And this was about 10 miles south of Denver proper. So Kitsie and Helene lived there with Helene, Helene's aunt and uncle, and they kind of, like, were roommates at her aunt's house. So that worked pretty well. Helene commuted to and from the. The radio station by bus. And so there was a bus stop six blocks from her from her aunt's house, and that's where she would go to take the bus to and from her internship.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

She put everything into this position. She was so excited. And although she was an intern, the station's news director, Mike Anthony, said that working with Helene felt more like working with an actual professional journalist because she was so just mature and good at what she did.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So all of her colleagues were immediately impressed by her dedication, her drive. She would always ask, like, what can I do to improve or to add more to the team? And more than that, she was just a very upbeat person who was very easy to have on the team, and she kind of endeared herself to everyone.

[B]

It's also, like, no easy feat to work for a radio. Like, there's no.

[A]

And not as a woman in the 70s either, you know, especially initially.

[B]

But I. I know. I. I've had friends who worked on radio, and you have to wake up at, like, 3:00am like, oh, yeah. I mean, that's. That's a. If her whole philosophy is smile through everything, she must have also had tears, because, like, that was.

[A]

Yeah. Grin and cry.

[B]

I can't imagine smiling and having a job that was that demanding and being a woman in the seventies.

[A]

No, I know. And. And, you know, I think part of it, you know, at that age, too, you're like, it's an internship. It's your dream career. It's just so exciting.

[B]

It might be your only shot as a woman in the 70s. Damn.

[A]

It's hard, and it's hard. Hard to get to that point. And, you know, she wanted to. So, yeah, I. I can get it. I mean, listen, as a PA who worked on sets, I was getting up at, like, 4:30 in the morning, and it was my. It was like hell on earth, you know?

[B]

Did you smile through and through.

[A]

Like, I should have, actually, because I had to work with people like Kris Jenner. And Alexis kept dropping her omelette. I'm like, what am I gonna do, start crying? That's not gonna help. Just kidding. Okay, back to this. So anyway, she really, really liked. Likes this internship, and they really like her, and it's just, like, a very good group of people. On January 16, 1980, Mike Anthony offered Helene a ride home because it was starting to snow, and she asked to leave early to catch the bus to beat the weather. But Mike said, hey, why don't you just wait 15 minutes? I'll just drive you back to your aunt's house. It was really cold. The roads are getting icy. We know what that's like. So he wanted to make sure she got home safely. But Helene took the same route home from work every day. It was basically, like I said earlier, six blocks to her aunt's house. But from the radio station to her, the bus stop near there, it was about two blocks. Okay. And so eight blocks total of walking, the rest just being a bus ride. And so although she'd only lived in Colorado for a few weeks, she was, like, very confident about the commute. She'd done it plenty of times. And she's like, you know what? It's fine. I'm just gonna hop on the bus. And, like, you don't want to. You know, if your boss is like, let me give you a ride. Like, I know that gut instinct to be like, no, no, I got this. It's fine. Like, you know, you don't necessarily want to.

[B]

And I don't want to impose, but also, what's going on here?

[A]

Well, yeah, I don't want to pose also, like, it just feels like a big ask. I don't know, or I don't know. I don't know how she felt, but she was like, nah, I'm getting on the bus. So she said bye to Mike, left, and then Mike left, like, 15 minutes later like he had planned. At home, Kitsie and Helene's family start becoming anxious because Helene has not gotten back. And remember, the weather is getting worse and worse, and. And they would have heard from her if she had changed her plans. So now they're thinking, like, maybe the bus didn't come because of the weather. So they get in the car, they drive to the Englewood bus stop, but she isn't there.

[B]

Oh, dang. Yeah. And you would have seen her walking the bus, maybe the bus route right on the way. You'd have seen her on the way.

[A]

That's a really good point. That's a really good point. So sometime after 8.30pm, which was two hours after her normal routine time to come home, which she had pretty much stuck to every day, her family called Mike Anthony, her boss, and he said, oh, well, I offered her a ride, but she left the station for home law, like, hours ago.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

So certain now that something's very wrong, Helene's family contacted the police. And then they walked the streets like you said, along the route, taking a closer look, you know, searching alleys, searching. Maybe she fell or was incapacitated in some way, got held up somehow in the weather, who knows? So they're. They're looking all over. They have this little search going. And around this time, a police officer meets with Helene's aunt and uncle to put in the official missing person report. Kitsy, meanwhile, is chronicling this dread she's feeling in her diary. So she. Because basically she didn't have another outlet, she wrote, poor Helene. What is she going through? Where is she? Is she all right? I can't believe this is happening. I keep telling Auntie Wanda not to worry or imagine the worst, which is, of course, what I am doing. And then at 11pm, it is so sad. It really does, like, make my heart hurt.

[B]

And they're sorry, I was gonna say, and also, you're right, there was no other outlet back then. Like, you can't blog about it or post about it. Like, please send good vibes for my friend.

[A]

I mean, you don't. You can't even just, like, make a voice memo, right? I mean, I don't know, you could.

[B]

Call another friend and vent to them, but other than that, it's just, you have to write.

[A]

Imagine at that point, like, they have one landline. You're not going to use the landline if the police are looking for, you know, your chat probably stuck in your room, like, fearing the worst. And as someone who always journaled, because I had no outlet, I totally feel for that, you know, way of processing. And it was just really, really heartbreaking. At 11pm she wrote, this has been the longest and worst day of my life. I am writing because I don't know what else to do. Now it's 1am she writes, still nothing. Will this night ever end? At 3am she wrote that Helene's aunt and uncle hadn't called Helene's parents yet because they didn't want to worry them. But Kitsie thought it was time to contact them because she'd want to know the situation if this were her family member? Yeah, if this were her daughter. So finally, around 4am, they called Helene's parents, and her parents immediately booked a flight to Colorado, arriving that afternoon. So police officers searched those same routes, that bus route that Helene's family and colleagues did. They contacted nearby businesses to see if anyone spotted her walking along through the snow. Nobody had. So the bus driver himself didn't even recall seeing Helene board the bus. So it was like as if she had just never even been there or like just vanished into thin air.

[B]

So something it. So something happened before she even got to the bus at this point, that's what it seems like, possibly.

[A]

Or the bus driver just didn't even clock it. I don't think they were very clear at this point. Like he just didn't even notice, you know, it wasn't like anything.

[B]

He just sees hundreds of people a day.

[A]

Yeah, I think it was just like he didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. It was just as if she. She had vanished. And when they asked him that, he. He thought, well, maybe I didn't. I guess I didn't see her today. Like it just didn't even cross his mind.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And so Bob Scott, the radio station's traffic reporter, said, we just kept hoping for some miracle as the night just went on and on and on. So the next morning, a woman was driving with her children through Daniels park in Douglas county. And her little boy looked out the window and said, mommy, there's a body.

[B]

Oh my God. I mean, oh, my God.

[A]

I mean. And she looks out and indeed it sure looks like a body. But she's like, I'm not going over there with my kids. So she goes and finds a road worker and of course his pre cell phones. So she pulls over and she asks him to please go check. And you know, he's more familiar with this area. And so he goes in. It's called Daniel's Park. It's this academy acre huge park. It's surrounded by suburbs just outside of Denver, but it feels like disconnected from the city. It's very scenic and like, it has like. Yeah, okay. Yeah, let's see. And so they're like these beautiful planes, but they can be very, very cold in January. So the road worker left and called 911 to report what the woman had seen. And when first responders arrived, they had indeed found a body and unfortunately was remains of the young woman that they had been looking for. So she had apparently been killed and abandoned recently in the park. Douglas county authorities reached out to see if Anyone had reported a missing woman, which, of course, they immediately knew this must be Helene. And the Englewood authorities asked Bob Scott, the traffic guy at the radio station, if he would go with them to the park to see if the remains belonged to Helen. Helene.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So as a local reporter, he had been in pretty continuous contact with the police through the night about Helene, which is why I kind of, like, quoted him earlier. And he knew she was the only recently missing young woman from the area that would, like, fit this description. So he basically knew in his gut that it was her, and he felt he had no choice but to go confirm it himself. So the planes were covered in snow. The ground was frozen. I mean, it's midwinter winter. Bob walks with the police to see Helene where she had been found. And it's just. He says, it's the worst thing I ever had to do, and it has never left my mind.

[B]

I can't imagine.

[A]

I, I. Yeah, just so, so, so troubling. Police arrived at Helene's home in Colorado at 1:30pm to break the news. And Kitsy actually wrote in her journal that she didn't cry. She just started shaking and couldn't stop shaking. Shaking.

[B]

Oh, my God. And also, like, I. Not only because of the realization of what's going on, but the adrenaline dump. That's an adrenaline dump. And then a new adrenaline surge and then another one.

[A]

Right? Because you're. And you're up all night, like, just in this heightened vigilance.

[B]

Your nervous system is just full fight or flight.

[A]

Oh, my Lord. Yeah. So I can. I can only imagine just how. What a shock to the system this would be. So Helene's parents arrived later that afternoon. Their flight came in, and Kitsie wrote that Helene's mother. Mother knew Helene was dead when she saw the priest at the house comforting the family.

[B]

Oh, my God. It's like when you see that. Like that when they open the door and there's a police officer there and.

[A]

They have their hats off, and you're like, oh, my God. It's just like that deep core chill.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So back in Massachusetts, Helene's friend Kimberly turned on the news and saw that someone named Helen sick seek, however you say that, sic Helen Prazinski was killed in Colorado. And of course she's like, well, my friend Helene Przezynski is in Colorado right now. And, like, of course you don't want to believe it because it's like, well, technically, it was someone else pronounced strong, but unfortunately, we don't know. Or we know that's not true. So she wanted to believe it wasn't Helene. But of course, course, in her gut, she also figured that must be what was going on. Pretty quickly, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation responded to the crime scene. Investigators initially believed that this might have been a personal attack because Helene had been discovered naked from the waist down. Except for the socks on her feet. Oh, her mouth had been gagged, her hands were bound behind her back. The ground had frozen just after Helene was killed, which meant. Meant that the killer's boot prints had been preserved perfectly in the soil. So that was a good thing. Two sets of prints led to Helene's body. It just makes it so dark. It's like two sets went to Helene's body. No. So intent she had. She had had to walk there, you know, by force, presumably, but she had consciously walked there to the spot where she had killed. But then only the killers be boot prints were on the way out. There were also frozen tire impressions nearby, likely from the killer's vehicle. And so the autopsy that they did revealed that Helene was raped before the murderer stabbed her in the back nine times until she died of blood loss and trauma to her lungs. Detectives noted the attacker. Attacker seemed to carry a lot of rage. One investigator called it a crime of passion. But Helene didn't even live in Colorado for a month, right? So it's not like she had some long standing, you know, beef with someone there. It's just. It was so strange. It didn't really fit. And so there wasn't a lot of time to, like, forge a strong bond with someone that would feel so passionately, at least that her family and friends could figure. So is there.

[B]

Sorry, was there a, like, killer on the loose or something, and she was just an at random victim?

[A]

I mean, no, as far as I know. I mean, the. The reporter or the. Yeah, the reporter from the radio station said he knew of only one recently missing young woman, so I imagine it's just her. So it seemed the only people Helene really ever associated with, aside from her aunt, uncle, and Kitsie, were her colleagues at the radio station, who were all ruled out as suspects. One woman reported driving by the scene of the crime late at night and seeing a man kneeling behind his vehicle. And she noticed that he had his hazards on and actually turned to look at her as she went by. Nightmare fuel.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Investigators employed a hypnotherapist to try and assist the woman to describe this man. They released a composition closet sketch, but it didn't bring in any new leads. And even if the sketch was the person who killed Helene, it was basically a white man with a mustache. So it was kind of like, well, in the 70s, 80s. It's not really like that far off of the average person. And so it wasn't exactly a unique description, but they didn't really have any leads. And the case basically went cold, which was so shocking to me when I heard about the footprints being recovered. Perfect footprints and all that. You know, it just feels like, oh, we got them. And then no. So, of course, Helene's friends and family were not going to let this go cold on their watch. And so they basically took up the mantle trying to find out who took Helene from them. Kimberly Latourette said that even as Helene's friends grew up, got married, had children, Helene remained part of their lives, and they just actively kept her, I guess, almost spiritually as part of their day to day lives as they grew up, you know, which I think is really sweet. Sweet. Kimberly said that people all have hobbies they enjoy, but her only hobby was finding Helene's killer. So.

[B]

Okay. Christine.

[A]

Yeah, I was gonna say. So one of the friends took it a little.

[B]

Good for her. Like, you need a friend. You need a friend with every hobby. You got one who likes cooking you like, one who's gonna solve your crime, your death. Are you kidding me?

[A]

Are you kidding me? We all need.

[B]

I need that friend 100%.

[A]

And you have it.

[B]

I like and you have it.

[A]

And I have it. Yeah.

[B]

I don't know what I'm capable of, but I do know that I will find out.

[A]

I'm afraid to know what you're capable of. Give me.

[B]

Give me a 3am and you break.

[A]

Into Wallace one more time. And you never know.

[B]

It's over for you.

[A]

It's over. So her friend was like this. I am not letting this go cold. And I just. I love it, I love it, I love it. You know, I wish I didn't have to come to this, obviously, obviously. But she turned this into her hobby. She. She felt like Helene's parents shouldn't have to take on this burden. And so she's like, you know what? Her friends are gonna do it. And I.

[B]

Damn, what a good homie.

[A]

When I like, I tell you I've just been crying, I'm like, this is just so poignant, you know, and it's like such a powerful thing to do.

[B]

For some, she would have been a menace on tech talk. She would have done numbers. Being like, everyone, help me. We're gonna figure it out. And an hour, let's gather together.

[A]

And figure this out. So, anyway, this was how things were progressing as the case technically was going cold. There are many continual efforts over the years to find answers for Helene and her family. The radio station where Helene had worked routinely ran stories about the case. They were regularly encouraging listeners to come forward with any information they may have. I mean, I must be very haunting for them as a workplace, too, you know, like, what a brutal, horrific thing to have happen in your own office. And so they continued. They even actually put out a $10,000 reward for any information. And then on the 26th anniversary, so we're now 26 years later, Kimberly and the original harmony choir group that she was a part of from their high school flew to Colorado to retrace Helene's commute on foot.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Kimberly, like, went and. And gathered the troops of the new choir, and, like, they all went out to look for clues.

[B]

I love girlhood. It's like, we're gonna figure it out.

[A]

It can't stop, or it's unstoppable, you know?

[B]

Yeah. Wow. That's amazing.

[A]

It's just beautiful. So they went on foot, and, of course, you know, this caught the attention of some local media. They featured the trip on numerous news stations, and they were hoping, you know, this would bring more attention to the case and maybe trigger someone's memory. But unfortunately, it just didn't work that way. Kimberly worked then with a software developer to build a website when, you know, that kind of started becoming more of the norm about Helene's case. And they programmed what she called traps into each page. Now. Now, this is where I started taking personal notes. I was like, now tell me more about these traps.

[B]

You said, oh, I feel like you would. I don't know. I can't tell which person you are. I think you're this person more than the organizing. The original. Original, you know, detective agency.

[A]

Oh, yeah. No, I think you're more the.

[B]

I'm the crazed person behind the computer.

[A]

I just did it on the Internet last night. Probably not really formally in a way that I was supposed to.

[B]

Yes, I think I'm about to hear a lot more about how you would have operated.

[A]

Interesting. Yeah. Well, so here's what she did. She got a. A web designer, and they built this. Or a software developer. They built this website about Helene's case, and they programmed traps into each page. I know the website recorded the IP address of everyone who visited the website, as well as how long they spent on each page. And she hoped that maybe there would be, like, a weird data Pattern where like, they would like, keep revisiting a certain picture or like, you know, maybe somebody suspicious would be trolling the site.

[B]

I would have never even thought to do that. First of all, that girl's a goddamn genius. Women in stem, folks.

[A]

Seriously.

[B]

But there was an SVU episode forever ago when Stabler was pretending to be a pedophile.

[A]

I remember that one.

[B]

Yes, there was like, the only way his. His, like a parole officer would only know if he stared at pictures for a certain amount of seconds longer than most people or something like that. Like, it timed how long he looked at it.

[A]

Yeah. Eye tracking.

[B]

So I wonder if there. There's some similar science here of like, oh, if someone was fawning, it was long of the.

[A]

It was just the time. I mean, I don't think they had like eye tracking software.

[B]

No, I didn't think that. But I wonder if it was like a. Like clicking on one page and looking at that one too long versus exactly.

[A]

So it would time, like how long you are on each page. Like how long an IP address was lingering on each page. Which would be bad for me because I just leave my tabs open all day, but, you know, whatever. Um, but no. So they. They were looking for any suspicious data patterns. I just think this is so important to also tell because it's like, what a story behind the scenes of like, how people dedicate their lives to. And friends.

[B]

What? Like, yes. On top of that, though, like, what a. Like get this girl into an office to come up with new creative ideas to solve crime.

[A]

Like, yeah, what is working?

[B]

What a new. Because I haven't even heard creative. For all the stories we've covered. I've never heard anyone else looking into something by doing this.

[A]

Not like a layperson, certainly.

[B]

You know, so I.

[A]

Maybe the FBI, but not.

[B]

I wonder how often this process is being used elsewhere because this feels like an original thought to me. But it does too.

[A]

And I wonder if this is just a more normal thing that I don't know about. But also, I think this was. I mean, this would have been 26 years. So let's see. So that would have been like 06.

[B]

They should have named the process process.

[A]

After her mid aughts, you know, and so it's like the fact that she even found a software developer to do that when like, back then you and I wouldn't have even known such a thing could be possible.

[B]

No.

[A]

You know, nowadays, sure, it's different, but like, wow. I mean, I just found that so powerful. But of course I have the bad News that there was no suspicious data pattern or anything of that sort. But I thought that was just worth including because.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow. So. So anyway, she had hoped for this to, like, point some spotlight at someone, but no such luck. So time just continued ticking on with no new leads. Meanwhile, Kimberly and her team are regularly keeping in contact with Colorado authorities to make sure that they are not forgetting about the case, and they just have to kind of wait for a break. So investigators in 1980 had meticulously recorded evidence from the crime scene. Although DNA wouldn't be used as evidence in a criminal case for more than six years. They would often collect. I know we've talked about this, but like, collect saliva or semen, wondering, you know, like, maybe this could help down the line. Or hair follicles, that kind of thing. And, you know, not even knowing that in some years this would be, like, such a huge piece.

[B]

I love when they think the case.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I love when they think.

[A]

Thank God. And so they did collect bodily fluids. It's suspected that they were saliva or semen that had been preserved during Helene's autopsy in case someday they could aid the investigation.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And years later, the sample was identified as Seaman. And investigators searched for a match within codis, the combined DNA index system. And so if there had been a match, it would have pinged, but unfortunately, there was no match in codis. Um, and that was just fully maddening. Right? Cause it's like, oh, there's a break with this huge new technological ability, and then it's like, dink zero matches.

[B]

You know, I can't imagine a bigger kick to the head of, like, oh, now we can use it.

[A]

And it led to nothing, and it meant nothing. Yeah, it's like roller coaster after roller coaster. And so it's just. It's. It's just maddening. And so they just had to hope, like, something would happen or they would have to wait for. Which sucks. Wait for the killer to commit another crime and then enter the prison system and have their DNA checked. You know, and how do we even.

[B]

Know if this guy's still alive or maybe.

[A]

Exactly. Exactly. There's no way to know. And so in 2015, a new. And that. I will say that was early days of DNA. So that was their only way of doing it. Right. Nowadays we have all of the genealogy resources. We have people on civilians and police.

[B]

Force doing all sorts of digital footprints to.

[A]

Digital footprints. Exactly. All sorts of things. So back then, there was just no matching CODIs, and that was kind of it. But fortunately, in 2015, they formed a new cold case unit, and they appointed its own detective who oversaw a civilian team of doctors, lawyers, and other dedicated professionals who started completely from scratch.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

So they went back over these 35 years of evidence and reports, including, including false hope in 1984 when two serial killers in Florida, Henry Lee Lucas and Odis Tool. I don't know if you remember them. I covered them way back when. Very, very infamous guys really up they in, were in Florida. They confessed to the crime.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And the two of them described kidnapping Helene at a bus stop and stabbing her in a field. Well, that sounds pretty talking, spot on. But then one of them said they shot her in the head. And then the police just figured they were lying to, to get more notoriety because they were like, pretty famous.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And so they just didn't take the confession seriously. Now, they'd led detectives during questioning into revealing information that they then in turn, like, spun as their own story. Now, 31 years since that false lead had happened, investigators are like, we don't have anything new. We need to like, basically go work with all this old evidence. So for four more years, they were just combing over the same old, same old. And like, not getting anywhere.

[B]

At some point, you like, I don't know how people that run cold cases do it because day it would be crazy making like. And there's got to be an answer. So I guess that's what, like, keeps you moving. I know.

[A]

And it's like you get those breadcrumbs, right? And then you get sent back to square one. But then maybe you get an inch in the right direction.

[B]

But it's, yeah, it's like, oh, my God. I, I, it, it has to be just so in some ways, just like mind numbing. It's like, how many angles can you.

[A]

How many nos, how many rejections can you get, you know, when you're trying to do something? Yeah. And, and that's kind of how they felt until 2019, four years into this little cold case project. Guess what, Tell me we now have our beautiful ancestry. Geo, genealogy, all our good genetic family trees. Trees. And all these serial killers getting plucked right out of their cozy recliners and plopped in jail. You.

[B]

And you know how, you know, after Golden State killer, all the other serial killers were shaking?

[A]

Oh, it's the best feeling. It's like you're next.

[B]

You know, there's somewhere out there, someone out there right now shaking in their boots.

[A]

Good, good. Yeah, them. So anyway, 2019, they have a different angle finally to use with the Evidence. So they partnered with a DNA data agency. We don't know, you know, which one. But they use commercial DNA databases like Ancestry and 23andMe to build a genetic family tree that could lead to either a relation or the individual whose DNA they collected from body. So the search led to a woman whose known daughter's genetic profiles did not match the the sample. But interviews with her relatives and a newspaper article about a mother son reunion revealed that she actually had two sons who were adopted when she was a young woman. One son's DNA was already in CODIS and he was not a match. So investigators looked at his younger brother, Curtis Allen White.

[B]

Oh, Curtis had.

[A]

You know when I say all three names that I know. Yeah, this guys.

[B]

I know if you got three names, you're fishy. As on the show.

[A]

Yeah, this. We don't give you much of a much leeway with those three names.

[B]

And not to be confused with Jeremy Allen White, by the way.

[A]

I don't know who that is.

[B]

Oh, the bear, the guy from Shameless. He's very big right now.

[A]

Oh, wait, that actor. I'm so. I'm like, oh, that guy. Oh, the guy from the Bear. I'm sorry, I thought you meant like a literal bear. And I was like, what bear? I was like, was this from a story we covered? Oh, okay, okay.

[B]

Bear, idiot. You don't get. There's Winnie the Pooh and there's Jeremy Allen White.

[A]

What about bear? What about cocaine bear? That's 31. Okay. Anyway, so they go into this and they figure out there's one son remaining. So it's odds are could be Curtis Allen White with those three names. So Curtis had served a short prison sentence prior to Helene's murder for raping a woman at knife point. Okay, already, already, like, seems like the right kind of guy. He had been paroled in Colorado, where he still lived in 1980. And then using fingerprint records, investigators followed Curtis to Florida where he lived and worked in a rural community as a truck driver, going by a new name, James Curtis Clanton. So now it's November 2019 and they're making these connections. Colorado detectives spent six days following James trying to acquire abandoned DNA. And I love these stories. I'm sure someday there will be a way that they do it like smoothly and like, but like now knowing that they have to dig through trash or like follow them to the food court and then like steal their straw, it just, every time it gets me, I'm like, these are like the biggest breaking cases and sending like some of the most vile people to prison, and it's going to be all over, like Nancy Grace and they're just in the food court at Sabaro, like, taking the greasy pizza out of the trash.

[B]

Like, I mean, that's the kind of. That's the kind of detective I want to be. I don't want to, like, like, on the ground, save people from a bank heist. I don't want to, like, I just want, go get your dirty chopsticks out of the trash.

[A]

That's it. And like, and like, find clues on it, you know, find the clues.

[B]

You do something, you do what you want.

[A]

So satisfying about it. It's like, wow. Like, who knew in the 80s that like, one day you could literally just take someone's straw out of the trash and put them in prison? I mean, it's just unbelievable. So anyway, all that to say they were doing this abandoned DNA search. And here's a nice point where our researcher has put in a little, little info that I may not have thought to include because in my mind it already makes so much sense. But I think sometimes that doesn't translate. So here's what it says. Abandoned DNA or abandoned samples, as they're sometimes called, refers to DNA samples that can be legally collected by law enforcement without a warrant based on where the samples are left, slash collected. So, for example, cigarettes left in public ashtrays, a toothbrush in the trash can on a curb, a fork in a restaurant. So anyone somewhere in a public space that doesn't have, like, reasonable expectation of privacy, basically is where you can take something like that, including a trash bin on the side of the road, because that happens a lot too. That's how they got. I believe that's one of the ways they got. Who was the guy, either Golden State Killer or the. One of the other, like, really, really big ones, scary ones, recently was going through their curbside trash. Anyway, so that is what that means. And it's considered very controversial. You can see why, right? Because like, on the surface it's like, oh, yeah, we're getting clues for bad guys. But like, you know, you're also kind of. It. It just feels a little shady. There's also the chain of custody situation where you're basically getting a sample out of the trash and then you have to certify that this is like actually the person's. And it's. There's a lot of chain of custody issues. It's. It's a bit controversial.

[B]

That's fair. But I will, I will say we're in A world of hurt when time travel exists, and all of a sudden you can go back to any time and grab DNA to. You know what I mean?

[A]

You should just go back and see what happened. Oh, that too.

[B]

That would really work.

[A]

Oh, man, we'd make a great team.

[B]

See, you have ideas and I have ideas, and your ideas are the ones that solve crimes. And then I decide what we're going to eat afterwards.

[A]

Ah, okay. Thank you. No, you decide where we're going to eat, and then we'll take the sample of DNA from there from the trash can.

[B]

Oh, I see. Okay, great. Perfect.

[A]

What could go wrong? So this same chain of custody is, of course, required for regular DNA samples, but, like, unconventional samples, like napkins and, like, forks and straws and. Or, like, diapers or whatever it is like, still kind of like a harder thing to claim is, like, a perfectly sterile sample. You know, it's. It's kind of in and of itself an oxymoron. And of course, then there's some legal concerns about, like, when things get blurred and. And mixed up. But still, courts continually find that it is not a violation of the Fourth Amendment, which protects U.S. citizens from illegal searches and seizures. So it is not considered, you know, conflicting with the amendment. In fact, the investigators had followed an earlier lead in another state, but abandoned DNA they collected. Collected from a suspect there, ruled him out as the killer. So they'd already done this. Wow. And it turned out it wasn't the guy. Imagine being like, why are you going through my trash? Like, oh, God. Yeah. So that guy was off the hook, but now they were certain that this guy was their man. So 1998, James was arrested for domestic violence, and they were surprised to see that his arrest photo even matched the composite sketch from the hypnosis drawing.

[B]

I mean, ding, ding, ding.

[A]

Even though they thought, like, oh, it's so vague. It's like, oh, no, actually, this is, like, striking. Wow, she did a good job. So they obviously needed real physical evidence beyond just, like, he matched the description. Right. So every day, James left home early in the morning in his truck, and after work, he stayed inside all night. So they were trying to figure out how best to get a hold of this subtly, discreetly.

[B]

I love how it's like, okay, he's an introvert. What do we do?

[A]

Oh, no. What's the book like? Protocol. He never leaves the house until he finally went to a local bar where the bartender served his beer mugs and the owner turned the mugs over to investigators.

[B]

Oh, yeah, because technically, it's not his property. So that was. Yeah.

[A]

Any. Any DNA you leave in a public establishment.

[B]

Well, even then, like, the mug itself that you left your DNA on is, like, not up for you to decide. It's the bar owner too, right?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So pretty wild. So they gave that to the police, and they were able to run this sample. And wouldn't you know, it, it matched the DNA collected from Helene's body 39 years ago.

[B]

Wow. Okay.

[A]

I know, I know. So Colorado detectives approached James and asked him to go to a local police station to answer questions about a major insurance fraud case they were investigating. Sneaking, sneaky. So James went with them voluntarily, but when they showed him a photo of Helene, he said he had nothing more to say and requested an attorney. So he's been duped.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

The police put him under immediate arrest for first degree murder and kidnapping, and then they extradited him to Colorado for indictment. The investigators informed James of the DNA evidence they had on him. Of course. That must have been crushing. And on the six hour flight from. Florida. Florida. James confessed all, man.

[B]

He was like, I'm. I'm seeing the likelihood of me getting out of this, and it's like it's a hot zero.

[A]

One more push in the right direction. And he spilled his guts.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For six hours, he spoke openly about what he had done to Helene, as well as other details of his life and former crimes. And he insisted that he never murdered anyone else. Congratulations. When asked why he chose Helene, James. This makes me want to vomit. James said it was fate.

[B]

Fate?

[A]

I would strangle him if I were riddled.

[B]

What are you talking about? Fate?

[A]

Like, off. He said he drove by her at the bus stop, did a U turn, confronted her with a knife, and tied her hands behind her back with her purse strap. He told her he was kidnapping her for money, and she told him her parents had none. Even when James revealed his true intent to rape her, he hid his plan to kill her. Of course.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

And he told her he would abandon her in Daniel's park and make her walk home when he was finished.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

James said that Helene was very friendly to him and he could tell she hoped she could convince him not to harm her.

[B]

What an evil fucking monster.

[A]

Evil. Evil. Evil piece of shit. Evil. James described dissociating from his body as he stabbed Helene, something which he said he did through his life since childhood.

[B]

Oh, okay, let's talk.

[A]

Let's.

[B]

Let's speak on that.

[A]

I hope he speaks to someone about that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He said he hurt Helene because he was angry. Remember when they said this was like, a crime of passion. So he didn't know her at all. He just saw her on the street. But he said he did it because he was angry, the same way he had hurt insects and animals when he was a child.

[B]

Oh, my God. Okay.

[A]

He said, I just kind of step out of myself and watch myself do that. That's pretty much the basis of everything I've ever done. I'm just mad all the time, you know what? So scared of this person.

[B]

At least you're fucking honest.

[A]

I mean, I guess.

[B]

Now, how do you, as a. As a police officer, hear this and not have guttural reactions like you and I do? How do you not go, oh, my God, in front of them? Like, I don't know how you. Like, how do you live the events and keep it?

[A]

How would I do it? I would dissociate from my body and watch. Like, I literally dissociate as well. Not ob. Obviously, not to hurt anybody, but, like, I know that feeling of feeling like, oh, I'm not even in my body. So, like, I feel like if I were receiving that news, I would have to just go somewhere else, like, float away.

[B]

I mean, I obviously don't have it in me to. To do that job, but I. I think one of the telltale signs is that I wouldn't not be able to have a poker face. I don't know how other people do.

[A]

I know when you hear about, like, PTSD that these people come out with after retirement, I mean, it must just be, like, so.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So heavy. Um. And so when the news broke, you know, that Helene's killer was finally in custody, it was sort of bittersweet for everyone who had waited these 40 years. Helene's sister Janet reported being overwhelmed with emotion. She was about 70 at the time.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And she was relieved the killer was caught. But, of course, this wouldn't, you know, change the last 40 years. And her parents and her brother Chet, all three had passed away before they ever found out.

[B]

Well, they never got.

[A]

No, no. I mean, I hope they know in the afterlife, you know, or reconnect somehow. But, yeah, they never got to see that justice, which sucks. Bob and Mike from the radio station had wondered if they'd even be alive to see this killer caught or if he'd ever be caught. And they were both amazed and relieved to hear he was finally answering for what he had done. CeCe Hunt, who is the director of the Harmony Choir Group, said it was a relief. But there's never closure on something that's so heinous. And here's Kimberly, our BFF extraordinaire, who said, we'll never heal completely, but now we can soften the edges around the broken pieces of our hearts and be with Helene in a different way now. Not being buried in her murder, but being buried back into the joy and the spirit of her life. Wow. In February, 20, 20, 40 years since he kidnapped and murdered Helene, 63 year old James pleaded guilty in Colorado and accepted a life sentence with a possibility for parole in 20, 20 years. At the age of 83, Mike said in an interview that he was happy that the people who loved Helene wouldn't have to endure a trial. Mike is the guy at the radio station and at the sentencing. Helene's family and friends delivered statements about the impact of Helene's death on their lives, including her high school boyfriend, Jonathan Shaler, who described the nightmares, the. The trauma of losing his high school girlfriend and having nightmares after the murder.

[B]

Murder.

[A]

I mean, for a kid. For a kid, you know, or for a. For a college age kid, it's just very. It just must be so traumatizing. Janet said, we knew Helene was going places. Her warm personality, friendly nature, and strong convictions gave us pride in all she did. We knew she was destined for great things in the future. They played a slideshow featuring photos of Helene. They actually had a recording of her. Of her singing with her college acapella club. What was it? Kappa, New Kappa?

[B]

New New Cap? Upsalon?

[A]

Oh, I was closer than I thought. You're like, no, you weren't.

[B]

Yeah, you did a good job for having heard it once an hour ago. Yeah, you're good.

[A]

And knowing not a single Greek letter.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

So they played. It was really, really sweet. They played a recording of her singing with her college acapella club. Wheaton College granted Helene her degree posthumously. And they established the Helene Przynski Leadership Award in her. Her honor. And it's granted each year to a senior who demonstrates exceptional leadership in the Wheaton community. A friend who knew Helene in college said, if you were walking across campus and past Helene, your day was made better by seeing her smile. Even if you didn't stop and talk with her. Her enthusiasm was infectious. She was caring, patient, and wanted to help others. And the scholarship itself is actually funded by donations, which is pretty cool. So you can give directly via the Wheaton College donation donation page if you have any calling to do that. So at Hamilton Wenham Regional High School, the Helene Pruszynski scholarship is also presented to a Student quote for the most valuable contribution to a music and or drama production.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And I feel like that must be quite an honor to anyone who receives that. So that is the Helene Pruszynski story. Very, very tragic. But, like, thankfully, be solved finally.

[B]

Yeah, at least solved. And it. Yeah, like, the hurdles it took because sometimes they actually had advanced. They had things for technology in advance, and then it still didn't work, but not enough.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

At that point, I would have checked out of the cold case. I'd have been like, well, I don't know anymore.

[A]

The dead ends just keep coming. It must be so hard to pick back up, you know, each time.

[B]

It honestly must be really exciting when a case does actually have a new lead and it's like, holy shit, we got one here.

[A]

I know. And I feel like it must just bring back the, like, motivation. And then when you hit square one again, it must just crush you.

[B]

Yeah. The dopamine. Ups and downs must be crazy. Oh, man. Well, good story. I. I secretly was wondering if this was going to turn into a part two, and then we would both have a part two for next episode.

[A]

We've never done that.

[B]

No, we've never done that. I very rarely do part twos. I try to get everything in. In one episode.

[A]

I never did until I suddenly did, and then I did a bunch, and then I never, never did them again. So it feels, like, very chaotic. Just impulsively, for a while there, I was doing them, but, yeah, I can't wait for yours. That was quite a cliffhanger.

[B]

I know. Well, I. I was gonna try to do it all in one, and I was like, that's just gonna take up too much time. So.

[A]

I agree, because it's already over two hours.

[B]

Oops.

[A]

That was my fault. Sorry for the long intro.

[B]

Well, if you'd like to hear us keep on chatting, you can pop on over to Yappy Hour.

[A]

He'll probably cry there, too.

[B]

That's fine. I'll cry too. And that's why we drink.