E424 Mount Shasta Synchronicities and Beelzebubbe’s Little Matzo Ball

Summary

Podcast Summary: And That's Why We Drink - Episode E424: Mount Shasta Synchronicities and Beelzebubbe’s Little Matzo Ball

Release Date: March 23, 2025

Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz

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Introduction

In Episode E424 of "And That's Why We Drink," hosts Christine Schiefer and Em Schulz delve into a captivating blend of personal synchronicities and a chilling narrative intertwining the paranormal with true crime. The episode, aptly titled "Mount Shasta Synchronicities and Beelzebubbe’s Little Matzo Ball," promises listeners an engaging mix of real-life experiences and a dramatized exorcism story set in the 16th century.

Personal Synchronicities and Travels

Christine opens the episode by sharing her recent focus on meditation and how it has ushered in a series of synchronicities. She mentions an upcoming trip to Monterey, San Luis Obispo, Portland, and Seattle, expressing excitement about solo retreats and connecting with nature.

At [08:41], Christine recounts a serendipitous moment when she and her daughter Leona received a package containing a squishmallow named Shasta, aligning perfectly with her planned visit to Mount Shasta. Em humorously attributes this event to cosmic alignment, stating, "It was the cosmos."

Engaging Anecdotes and Family Dynamics

Throughout the episode, Christine and Em interweave personal anecdotes, highlighting their dynamic interactions. They discuss household quirks, like Em’s penchant for buying excessive baking supplies and Christine’s organization habits, adding a relatable and humorous layer to the podcast.

At [14:00], Christine describes a funny incident involving her child, Leona, at the trampoline park, showcasing the hosts' ability to blend light-hearted family moments with their primary storytelling.

Main Story: Nicola Aubrey and the Exorcism Saga

The centerpiece of the episode begins around [22:02], where Em introduces the story of Nicola Aubrey, a 15-year-old girl from the 16th century experiencing severe possession by a demon named Beelzebub. This narrative unfolds against the backdrop of the intense Catholic-Protestant tensions of the era.

Key Plot Points:

1. Possession and Public Exorcisms:

   • Nicola exhibits terrifying symptoms: convulsions, speaking in an unfamiliar voice, and limb contortions.
   • The Church conducts public exorcisms to display the power of Catholic rituals over Protestant skepticism.
   • Quote at [26:50]: "This is like a sideshow, but in the name of God propaganda." – Em

2. Demon Interactions:

   • Beelzebub reveals plans to possess another woman, emphasizing the persistence and influence of demonic forces.
   • The demon mocks Protestant attendees, heightening religious tensions.
   • Quote at [27:02]: "You're a devil. You're literally as bad as I am." – Beelzebub

3. Catholic vs. Protestant Dynamics:

   • Protestants attempt alternative methods to exorcise the demon, facing ridicule and supernatural backlash.
   • The effectiveness of the Eucharist is showcased as the sole remedy against Beelzebub's influence.
   • Quote at [45:40]: "They only care about the arm." – Christine, referring to Nicola's injuries after exorcism attempts.

4. Escalation and Struggles:

   • The story illustrates the escalating struggle between religious factions, with public spectating turning into personal vendettas.
   • Quote at [57:37]: "This is really good marketing." – Em, highlighting the propagandistic elements of the exorcism events.

5. Climactic Developments:

   • Multiple exorcism attempts lead to limited success, with Beelzebub retreating temporarily.
   • The narrative builds suspense towards a confrontation involving additional demons and intensified rituals.
   • Quote at [69:06]: "This feels like an Acme cart." – Christine, comparing the chaotic exorcism scenes to cartoon antics.

Reflection and Concluding Thoughts

As the episode progresses towards its conclusion, Christine and Em reflect on the absurdity and dramatization within Nicola's story, blending critical analysis with their trademark humor. They draw parallels between historical exorcism practices and modern-day skepticism, pondering the effectiveness and motivations behind religious rituals.

Notable Quotes:

• Christine at [72:34]: "The blood, like, that's where you're like, oh, are we sure it's literal? You're 110% sure."
• Em at [85:58]: "If Allison did that, she would cry." – Discussing personal anecdotes intertwined with the main story.

Final Remarks

In wrapping up, the hosts tease upcoming segments and personal stories, maintaining the engaging and conversational tone that characterizes "And That's Why We Drink." They invite listeners to follow their journey, both through their travels and the intriguing tales they explore each week.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Christine [08:07]: "I've been doing a lot of meditating and things like that. And as you know, I go through these spiritual ADHD side quests."

• Em [26:50]: "This is like a sideshow, but in the name of God propaganda."

• Christine [27:03]: "The Catholics really tried to turn it for good on the Protestants."

• Em [57:07]: "So, yeah, that's a part two. I'm glad I waited two whole weeks for it."

Conclusion

Episode E424 masterfully blends personal storytelling with a gripping exorcism narrative, offering listeners a multifaceted experience that balances humor, personal anecdotes, and suspenseful storytelling. Whether you're intrigued by real-life synchronicities or fascinated by paranormal true crime tales, Christine and Em deliver an episode that's both entertaining and thought-provoking.

Transcript

[Christine]

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[Em]

Here we are again.

[Christine]

Well, I don't know how this happened.

[Em]

I don't know how we got here.

[Christine]

If you are wondering how we got here earlier and looked at me and said I look completely different. But apparently now we're just back at it again.

[Em]

Did you get a spray tan?

[Christine]

No. No. I mean, maybe it's. I. I put an upside down box on my bed and put my laptop on it. That's the only change that I've made. So.

[Em]

Magical box. I'll tell you, there's something.

[Christine]

You know what? Maybe it is. Maybe I'm just glowing today. I have no idea. But apparently I look like I'm in the office. Question mark. Whatever that's supposed to mean, but in the show.

[Em]

The office. Not like in an office.

[Christine]

Okay. Okay. I wasn't sure which one. I just kind of took both and ran with it.

[Em]

Are you just wearing makeup? Is that what's happening here, Bear?

[Christine]

Not really.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

I don't know, you know what I'm doing. I'm in my room again. But I've been there for the last several days. But maybe it's the time. Oh, maybe this is not a joke. It's gonna sound like a joke. Daylight savings time was two nights ago. Maybe now that the sun is, like, out later. Maybe it's just the lighting.

[Em]

Maybe so.

[Christine]

I mean, this room was built to. To be in, you know, back then when they would build room. They probably still do, but like, build houses to have light at certain times of day.

[Em]

Oh, really?

[Christine]

Yeah. And so, like, the parlor, for example, in a house would have morning sunlight versus, you know, the kitchen, which is just dark.

[Em]

Because it's working for you, girl. It's working. I don't.

[Christine]

Anyway, yeah. So I don't know. Maybe that's what's happening.

[Em]

But I feel like I think you're onto something. There's really something going on, and I don't know what it is. I mean, the mystery is fine to. To remain a mystery, but really, because.

[Christine]

I just would like to keep talking about it. It's very fun for me.

[Em]

I'm sure. I would also love to know exactly why I look so good. And I want to keep that rolling. Yeah.

[Christine]

Glowing. I mean, I'm sure any. And several. Honestly, I'm sure several of our advertisers would be thrilled to be hearing this, because I feel like we do have several advertisers that pertain somehow to my physical face, shoulders up appearance. And I'm not gonna shout at any brands because that is not what I'm trying to do here. I'm just saying, hey, maybe we'll all find out the next time we do and we go. Oh, that's why you look that way.

[Em]

I think you're. I think you're onto something like that might be it.

[Christine]

So anyway. Hi, Em. How are you today?

[Em]

Well, you look so.

[Christine]

Shut up. Okay. Man, by the way, so charming. Well, I didn't mean to say charming. That's why I stopped.

[Em]

Did you mean to say it with a question mark at the end? No.

[Christine]

And I didn't mean to say it with a stutter in the middle, I promise you. I meant to say you look. Dashing. That's the word I was looking for.

[Em]

Thank you. Well, I'M wearing a new shirt. I'm very excited about it, if you'd like to see.

[Christine]

Can I see it? Is it just blank or does it.

[Em]

It says Bubby's little matzo ball.

[Christine]

I just called you zaftig and you're wearing that shirt. That makes it so much better. I know you did channel the shirt earlier because you did say the word zaftic in an ad. To be clear why I'm calling you that.

[Em]

Yes, I was making a point that my. My grandmother has called people in the family that. And that makes sense why your shirt.

[Christine]

Kind of channeled that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Em]

I. Speaking of my grandma, apparently she heard one of our last episodes where we made a joke about my other grandmother passing away.

[Christine]

She almost killed our social media manager, Megan. Like, she almost put out a hit on Megan, our social. Not really. Not really. Really, really.

[Em]

My grandma sent a message to the and that's why we drink Facebook page to say, why is my death so funny?

[Christine]

Actually, what you said, Em, there was a reel posted about how your other grandma died. And I said, I made some like, stupid, sick joke about your grandma. It felt funny in the moment. And then I, I forgot that it would show up on the social media, of course. And then it did. And your grandma DMed our social media manager, Megan said, I didn't know my death would be so funny. And it was like the most like, put you in your place, grandma message. And Megan basically said, I'm never posting again. I'm leaving. I'm leaving this physical plane. Goodbye. This is the end. And the fact that it has an auto message and it was a frickin, like, was it gravestone?

[Em]

Sorry, we're busy right now.

[Christine]

But it was like a gravestone and a ghost. And I'm like, oh my God, now grandma's gonna think we're like, you know, poker making more mockery about it, you know, Anyway. But I was like, wait a minute, your grandma's not even dead. It's obviously not about her. Doesn't she know you have another grandma?

[Em]

I think she knows that she takes the spotlight often. And so why would I talk about anyone else ever?

[Christine]

Somebody asked me, okay, I'm glad you said that because that confirms my theory because somebody said to me, well, I think it was Blaze or Alexander, somebody rational in my life, and there are only a couple. And one of them said, well, doesn't she know that Em has another grandmother? And I was like, yeah, but I don't think that crossed her mind.

[Em]

Like, I don't think. I don't think so. I think she knows. She's like.

[Christine]

She discussed.

[Em]

I think. I think she knows that when grandparents are discussed, she's gonna have her name thrown in. And so.

[Christine]

And she's like, obviously a lot. I do like her name a lot. And I mean that fully, sincerely. This is. I. This is no insult, man.

[Em]

Let's put it this way.

[Christine]

I'm so sorry. I've just. I feel like I really dropped the ball here.

[Em]

Let's put this way. She's Linda's mother, so.

[Christine]

Yeah, exactly. That's also how I explained it to Alexander and Blaze.

[Em]

My mother, I think, is shocked every time she doesn't get mentioned in an episode. I'm sure her mother's also like, well, if you're talking about grandparents, obviously, I'm on the field. I'm ready to put me in coach, you know?

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Em]

Anyway. Hi, grandma. The right one.

[Christine]

Never gonna post this again. Megan's never gonna post any content about your grandma again.

[Em]

Well, this will show if she actually listens to the show or just watches the clips on Facebook.

[Christine]

That's true. You know what? Great point. Maybe you'll get a freaking text.

[Em]

Finally. Yeah, finally. I didn't even get a text. I. I got cold shoulder.

[Christine]

I thought it went straight to the top, which is Megan.

[Em]

I like how she probably thought it was going straight to me and then still didn't text me and just say, like, hey.

[Christine]

Yeah, bizarre. Yeah, she's just too savvy. She's just on the gram, you know?

[Em]

Why do you drink this week, Christine?

[Christine]

Oh, man. Well, you know, I've been doing a lot of, like, meditating and things like that. And as you know, I go through these spiritual ADHD side quests. And I was on. I'm on a new one this. I'm on a new one this month. Not really, but I've been really focusing on meditation. And so a lot of, like, synchronicities have started coming up, and it's really wild and weird and fun and. So long story short. Long story medium. We were. We have a trip this week, and we're going to Monterey and San Luis Obispo. Am I finally saying it right? I've been practicing.

[Em]

Sure. It's pretty good.

[Christine]

Can you say it?

[Em]

I say San Luis Obispo.

[Christine]

San Luis Obispo. Okay. Thank you. So anyway, we're going to Monterey and San Luis Obispo and then Portland, Seattle. And, like, originally, because they're kind of like a week apart, I was thinking, oh, well, then I'll just fly back. And it didn't occur to me how close they were. So I had to make the decision, like, do I fly back for 24 hours? That doesn't make sense. In a different time zone and then fly back. So I decided to stay. But I was like, what to do? What to do? And I was like, I've been wanting to do a little solo, like, retreat type nice thing where I can take my little meditations and writing and go in the woods. And so I just started, like, following the little path. And I was like, oh, my God, there's Mount Shasta. Or is it Shasta?

[Em]

I think Shasta, as someone who hasn't checked recently.

[Christine]

So I thought you said someone who has a blue check. And I was like, wow, well, then.

[Em]

In that case, well, I'll be using that for the rest of my life.

[Christine]

But no, that's. We've never used that before. We should. But anyway, because the soda was called Shasta, I think, which is why I'm confused. Anyway, my brother keeps. Whatever. Doesn't matter. So I was like, ooh, I should go there. And you know how I'm, like, super into trains?

[Em]

I do.

[Christine]

Well, they. I looked up, like, places to stay, and of course, as I'm going through, there is a place there where you can. And I'm only saying this because I've already left at this point where you can stay in a railroad caboose.

[Em]

Oh, hell, yeah.

[Christine]

And I was like, yes, please. Turns out that they are. They only had one night available. So I basically.

[Em]

That's fine. That's all you need.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's what I thought. I have to leave at, like, 6:00am and then, like, drive up anyway. It's a whole thing, but it was all very stressful. But now it's all booked, and I'm very excited. And then I was telling Blaze about it, and I was like, you know, and the other thing is, I just. This feels right. Like, I wanted to do some, like, solo, like, retreat stuff and just kind of be by myself. And I was like. And. And all these synchronicities keep happening that makes me feel like it's the right path. And then literally, I. We had all these boxes that I had picked up from ups, like, our fan mail, basically, from the last, like, half a year. And it was probably, like, at least on my end, not as many as yours, but, like, 30 some packages. And I just kind of picked a random one and was like, liana, do you want to open this? And so we opened it, and there was this little, like, squishmallow inside and. And I was like, oh, look. And Leona's like, what's her name? And I look at the tag and I say, shasta.

[Em]

Oh, get out. That's cool.

[Christine]

And I was like, oh, my gosh.

[Em]

Well, there you go. You gotta bring her with you.

[Christine]

I know. And I was like, I have to fit her in my suitcase now anyway. And I. I looked at the box and I'm like, I don't know who sent it, but whoever you are, thank you for contributing to my.

[Em]

Was the cosmos.

[Christine]

It was the cosmos. And probably someone named like Megan or Sarah or Katie. And I'm just not giving you credit. Credit. But if. Yeah, let me know who sent that. Cause thank you for my little. You didn't even know. Maybe, maybe that you were part of.

[Em]

A little synchronicity, a little divine situation there.

[Christine]

Yeah, so that is why I drank em.

[Em]

Anyway, so how long. You don't have to tell me all the details, but how long is this, like, retreat? Not just the caboose situation, but like. Yeah, so do you get sick of it or like, are you gonna take a break at some point or are you just full throttle?

[Christine]

Oh, no, no. I just kind of want to like, be like a little solo travel just sounds really nice. I don't really mean even a retreat. I just mean kind of like solo. Solo time with a toddler and all the pets and everything. I just never. I'm like, alone and so I'm like, it would be really nice to just have like a few days of just like being close to nature or, or just, you know, I mean, not that close to nature. Like, I'm bringing a lock, like an extra lock.

[Em]

I'm bringing what I said, no bears, just.

[Christine]

Oh, certainly no bears. No bears and no men. Just me and, you know, a rental car.

[Em]

Poor Blaze with like peas in his hair and like carrots. You're like, I think I need some solo time. He's like, that's why.

[Christine]

I was like, I'll fly back for 24 hours. He's like, I really won't allow you to do that. And I was like, I'll help. And he's like, that won't be helpful. Anyway, he's a good man. He was. Yeah, he was right. There was no easy way around it. But my mother in law is coming for a few days to visit because it just worked out timing wise. And they're going to see a Taylor Swift cover band with Leona, so she's going to her first concert. So you know what I mean, it'll be, it'll be a good time for them. But anyway, is. Why do you drink? Is it your grammy? No, Gammy's death.

[Em]

She's kicked the bucket five years ago.

[Christine]

She's Jacqueline's concerns.

[Em]

JG as we call her in the house. Anytime jg.

[Christine]

Got it.

[Em]

Anytime. My mom is acting a little like her mom. I go, oh, pulling a JG there. Just warning you. Which I didn't think would stick. I said at one time as like an off the cuff thing. And my mom really like melded with that. And so the things that you say.

[Christine]

Are so annoying and somehow they still get said over and over and I. It's like, it's like a ear worm, you know?

[Em]

Thank you. Well, she. She's really latched on and so now she'll just tell on herself just so she can use the phrase, I pulled.

[Christine]

The jg so you'll never believe what a JG I was earlier.

[Em]

I don't know why I drink this week, I guess.

[Christine]

Where are you going in between those shows? You going home?

[Em]

No, I'm just going to explore. I really don't even know where I'm going to end up yet because as someone who regularly solo travels, I can tell you you're gonna have a blast.

[Christine]

Right. Like, it feels like I just haven't done that in so long and it's like always a very restorative experience.

[Em]

It's wild because it's just three days, right?

[Christine]

Like in between. I think just a couple days.

[Em]

Yeah. I mean, I'll probably just explore the two cities that sandwich the.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah.

[Em]

But I don't know, sometimes I've on previous trips when we've had like a week in between and we weren't recording, I've just like gone to other random ass cities. So, I mean, I don't know where the world will take me. So.

[Christine]

Wow. The. Wherever the wind blows. Once you end up at a railroad park and be like, that's weird, Cristine's doing one of these. And then you hear me.

[Em]

If all of a sudden anytime I hear choo choo, I'll know it was you.

[Christine]

Christine's somewhere around. She's trying to recreate the train noises.

[Em]

Yeah, no, I guess I'm excited to do a little traveling. I. I guess if I'm picking like a thing today, I have a lot of laundry to do because I. I've been avoiding that. You know, I love clothes. Fucking love. I mean, like, I don't.

[Christine]

It's hard not to.

[Em]

Which is such A weird thing to say because it's not like I'm into fashion. What I really love is, like, T shirts with, like, a saying. Right.

[Christine]

Because they, like, express yourself. Right. So it's like, oh, you can buy.

[Em]

These little matzo balls.

[Christine]

Exactly. Express yourself. Yeah. Exactly what I think of. Yeah. When I say that.

[Em]

But so I. And Allison, who is, like, such a minimalist, there's nothing she hates more than how every time I come home, I.

[Christine]

Your creative expression via T shirts.

[Em]

And on my solo travels, what if I find something that the only way to commemorate it is, like, get a shirt. So Allison has justified it in her head so she can't be mad at me anymore. She's like, oh, so you. You collect T shirts. That's the way that she has to say it.

[Christine]

Collection. Oh, I love that. You just reframe it.

[Em]

Well, that's what she had to do or else she was going to start ripping her hair out.

[Christine]

I think that's like a method, you know? Yeah.

[Em]

Self soothing.

[Christine]

Yeah, self soothing. Exactly. Exactly.

[Em]

But so I buy. I buy so many T shirts that, like, I can get away with not doing laundry for a long time. So then when I do, I. It's. It's always a mountain. And a while ago, I decided, like, I was going to throw away, like, half my socks and half my underwear because that way it would force me to do laundry more often so it would stay in smaller piles. But then I tricked myself again, and now I only, like, wash myself, socks, and underwear, so that way they're quick laundries and I avoid the pile of T shirts still. So.

[Christine]

Yeah, it's. Yep, I know, exactly. Because there's some underlying other void we're trying to fill. And it doesn't matter how many times you're going to try and do fix the.

[Em]

It's just I gamified my gamifying, I guess.

[Christine]

So that's really meta. Yeah.

[Em]

Anyway, I guess I drink because of the. You have Mount shots. I have Mount clothes, not laundry. So that's why I drink.

[Christine]

I also have this Shasta. So if you need a hug when we're on tour, you can borrow her for a minute.

[Em]

Thank you.

[Christine]

Oh, and then I looked at the tag again, and to be clear, folks, like, her name was assigned as Shasta. Like, I didn't make it up. But then I read her little, like, descriptor tag this morning, and it was like, I'm trying to remember. It was. It was so strange. It was like she is a general manager at a beachside restaurant.

[Em]

You go Girl.

[Christine]

What? I was like, this is quite a story for her. But it like the backstory. No notes.

[Em]

After so many of those toys come out and you have to have a backstory for each of them. Someone's gonna have a little bit of a kind of backstory.

[Christine]

Yeah, I kind of. It felt at first, kind of. And then I read it, I was like, oh, wait, no. She is loving her life. And like, if. Then when you take a look at her and see her floral hairpiece, you're like.

[Em]

And her big smile.

[Christine]

Oh. And she gets dressed every day and puts. And gets her lashes done. Like, you know, she's just. She's just. That's her people.

[Em]

That's her place, you know, she doesn't have a pile of clothes somewhere that needs washing.

[Christine]

Yeah, just a little one that she jokes about. But it's like, not really a problem like it is for us.

[Em]

Yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

She just falls late, which is so kind of her. Like, she just has a good heart, you know?

[Em]

That's nice. That's. It does hurt my feelings, though, when I. She's like, sorry, the place is a mess. And then I walk in, like, I don't see a mess.

[Christine]

I know.

[Em]

And I'm like, you need to stop saying.

[Christine]

But she kind of tries to figure it by coming over and being like, you are just the most. You have the most gorgeous home, you know? And then she won't make you feel bad about it. You know what I mean?

[Em]

That's who we all want.

[Christine]

That's good. She's a support.

[Em]

She is. She's the backbone, actually.

[Christine]

She's the backbone.

[Em]

Yeah. She's the heartbeat.

[Christine]

I call her my mountain. She's my rock, you know, that's why she keeps me even though she's so squishy.

[Em]

Keep going.

[Christine]

No, don't dare me to. I really might. And I won't be able to stop. So when it comes to kind of all your all Em and I like to discuss all our ailments. Right. And when it comes to overlapping ailments, sometimes I feel like you don't know where to turn, especially when it comes to just day to day guidance. And that's why I'm so thrilled that we are working with Fay.

[Em]

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[Christine]

They have tags for all the dietitians. You can feel really safe and comfortable when you pick somebody to work with. You can really find like a tailored fit rather than just calling around and hoping an office has has space for you.

[Em]

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[Christine]

With the help of a registered dietitian through fae. Listeners of and that's why we Drink can qualify to see a registered dietitian for as little as $0 by visiting.

[Em]

Feynutrition.Comdrinks that's fainutrition.com backslash drink one last time that's fainutrition dot com backslash drink and make sure you use the URL so they know that we sent you. As the child of a brand newly retired financial advisor, by the way, as of this week I was raised that financial literacy and financial responsibility are peak importance and somehow I have failed. But luckily we have Chime.

[Christine]

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[Em]

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[Christine]

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[Em]

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[Christine]

Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA members. Fdic, Spot Me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Booths are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in Spot Me and are subject to monthly limits. Timing depends on submission of payment file fees apply at out of network ATMs.

[Em]

Okay, here's my recap. Do you remember at all what I'm going to talk about? That's okay. If it's no, it's a no. Okay, so this is a girl named Nicola. Aubrey, you don't have to. It's called the miracle of Long, I think.

[Christine]

How do you spell that?

[Em]

L, A, O, N. Oh, okay.

[Christine]

But I do remember this.

[Em]

I YouTube the shit of how to, how to, how to pronounce that damn thing. And the best I can get you is lan. Like when it's a bunch of vowels.

[Christine]

It'S like, what do you mean? I just want.

[Em]

Yeah, sorry, French people. We just finished watching a season of Below Deck where one of the people is French and he needed subtitles every time he spoke. And it's the French accent's a toughie.

[Christine]

They'Re just passionate about, you know, it's like, we're not blaming you. It's just hard to understand. They're just passion about their language.

[Em]

I just, I, I, It's a, that, that one is hard for my head to get around.

[Christine]

Toughy, I guess.

[Em]

Okay, so the miracle of long, which is in long France, I guess. Okay, so this is in the 16th century. Tell me when it starts tracking for you. This is in the 16th century during the big tension between Catholics and Protestants because of your favorite topic, Martin Luther.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Transubstantiation.

[Christine]

Oh, good try. And substantiation.

[Em]

Okay. Which is, well, at least the one that matters in this story is that, I guess one side, the Catholics decided that when you take the sacrament, it is the literal blood and body of Jesus Christ. Whereas the Protestants are like, that's metaphorical and symbolic and fun. But like, we're not actually eating skin.

[Christine]

So stupid. Like, because as a Catholic, I know that it's literally blood. And then they're like, oh, you're seven now it's time for you to drink it. And you're like, I mean, why do they think we're up. Like you're seven years old and you learn, no, this is. I remember them saying, it's not a symbol symbol, it's literal. And then they're like, now you walk up to this priest in Front of all hundreds of people and drink this huge goblet of blood. Like, that's literally what they told us to do, and we were nine for that first communion anyway. And then they're like, you're accepting Christ into your body by eating his body. I mean, it's just like, what in the effing.

[Em]

I know I said it last time, but, like, the irony of, like, saying anything ritualistic is demonic, but like, hello, biggest ritual I've ever heard in my life.

[Christine]

Blood out of a goblet.

[Em]

Like in front of the masculine.

[Christine]

They're so scared of Satanist. It's like you're basically two sides of the same fucking coin.

[Em]

Yeah. You're just looking in the mirror and you're scared of yourselves, baby.

[Christine]

Exactly. Thank you.

[Em]

So the big. The. I'm sure there's more to why they don't like each other, but the one we care about right now is like, the Catholics think that it's literal skin and blood.

[Christine]

It's a good headline, you know, headliner to use. Yeah.

[Em]

And so just remember that in the background of the story because this, this story ends up being used against Protestants.

[Christine]

I see propaganda, sort of.

[Em]

And you will see I mentioned it last season, last episode, last episode. I mentioned it a little bit, but it didn't totally get brought up. It will get more brought up this time. So, okay, and the main character here is Nicola Aubrey. She's 15 years old. She's seeing dark apparitions by her bedside. She's getting grabbed and dragged by something. She's having convulsions. She's speaking in a voice that isn't hers. Her limbs are literally cracking. Her face, her eyes, her tongue are all getting swollen. She's getting flung around in the sky and she's having swoons, which is basically like sleeping beauty syndrome where she can't wake up.

[Christine]

Oh, okay. So she's kind of like going into like some sort of twilight trance.

[Em]

Yeah, Sleep. Yes. Trance thing. And the only thing that can save her is the sacrament, obviously.

[Christine]

Amen.

[Em]

So the parents get the church involved to do exorcisms on her. Remember I told you she's having like several, Several, several public exorcisms done on her.

[Christine]

Oh, that's right. Oh, yeah. And I said, I don't even blame the people going to watch because, like, what else the hell do you have to do? I would go exactly like, we all know we were all there. And if you're, if you say you weren't, you're probably lying.

[Em]

If someone told me today that There was a public exorcism I could witness. I would think for a second about it and then I go, no.

[Christine]

I feel like we'd at least get tagged in it on Instagram a bunch of times and you have the option to go if we wanted to.

[Em]

I would. I maybe wouldn't go myself, but I'd be curious to what happens on Tick Tock in the next.

[Christine]

I would check. I was gonna say I would check the tags. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Em]

So one of the thoughts is that this was so the public exorcisms. The thought is so that way people could get together to pray together because the power of prayer, but also to show the power of Catholic specifically when only the sacrament is saving her.

[Christine]

I see. So it's like a sideshow, but like in the. In the name of God propaganda. Yeah, gotcha.

[Em]

So during these exorcisms, the demon, remember, openly calls the Protestants in the crowd as faithful servants.

[Christine]

Oh yeah.

[Em]

So fuck you Protestants.

[Christine]

That's hysterical marketing.

[Em]

And when the priests try out different holy relics, none of them really piss off the demon. They that they. In a way that they want it to. The only thing that works is the Eucharist. And when at the end, when the priest demands the demon to tell him his name, the devil says, I am Beelzebub. And that's where I left it.

[Christine]

So that was. I remember that was such a good cliffhanger. Oh my God.

[Em]

So now that's. That's what you missed on Glee. So to get rid of Beelzebub, the priest wrote Beelzebub's name down on a bunch of paper and tried to like ritually burn the paper, but it didn't work.

[Christine]

That's what they say to do like for about your ex. So I sort of get it.

[Em]

Lovely. I have not done. I should try that.

[Christine]

Yeah, you should. If you're. If that's still something that plagues you.

[Em]

Yeah, I mean, I'm over her, but I would like to see if it has. But it just. Just, you know, for science.

[Christine]

There's a few more. Yeah. Hurt.

[Em]

Couldn't hurt me, certainly. Well, so I. I'm going to start this by saying the rest of these notes. I had such a fucking headache trying to put all this together because I was using sources that either were translated and like into like more modern day text. Then I was using. Remember I read like a 60 page book and all those in.

[Christine]

Oh my God. Thank God. Talk about that in two episodes. Because that would have been wild if you just did one episode and then you Just.

[Em]

Just never mentioned again.

[Christine]

Yeah, it was not relevant anymore.

[Em]

Well, that book was also in like old English and it was like.

[Christine]

I'm sorry, you failed to mention that in the first episode that the 60 page book you read was an old English.

[Em]

So there was a lot of trying to piece everything together.

[Christine]

Was it on like Kindle Unlimited? Like where the hell did you. Okay.

[Em]

It was literally a PDF someone.

[Christine]

You had to like download it off Google.

[Em]

Yeah, yeah. So I had. It took a lot of trying to put things together. And I will tell you, I don't claim to be an expert on the timeline here. I try my best. That's all I can tell you. So before anyone has anything to say in the comments that's an expert on this for some reason.

[Christine]

Yeah, I was gonna say I feel like you don't have that much to contend against. Like most people are just going to work right now and aren't like experts in, in 16th century.

[Em]

If anyone were to hear about this case somewhere else and it sounds completely off, know that I was trying my best timeline wise with like actual like quote historical sources.

[Christine]

So maybe they're wrong and you're right.

[Em]

So keep that in mind as you're driving. Okay, here we go. So a diff. I. I kind of chunked things together that I couldn't timeline. So I'm just going to say. At different times throughout these several exorcisms, Beelzebub was asked by the priest a few questions. Here are some of them. They come from.

[Christine]

Beelzebub was asked.

[Em]

Okay, the priest asked several questions to Beelzebub. These are just a handful of them.

[Christine]

In other words, this, this girl.

[Em]

Yes. Okay, just to clarify, this 15 year old girl who claims Beelzebub is within her.

[Christine]

Understood. Okay.

[Em]

So she's the one, she's being asked.

[Christine]

She's the channel for Beelzebub. Okay.

[Em]

It certainly looks like a 15 year old girl is talking to the priest, but.

[Christine]

Gotcha.

[Em]

We're acting like Beelzebub was here. So the first question that is asked to Beelzebub, where does he go when he's not possessing Nicola? Because it's happened so randomly that he'll pop in. So like where does he go in the moment where he's not there? Well, he says, actually I go walking. Just take a walk through a forest. Through a forest. And it's full of sinners. It's dirty, dirty sinners.

[Christine]

You know like forests are. Has this girl never been in a forest? That's probably why she doesn't understand. She's like, you know, a scary place, a forest.

[Em]

That's. That's his answer. He's like, well, I just take. I just take a stroll and this is.

[Christine]

Oof. This is rough.

[Em]

This is so exhausting for me that I need to go into a dark, fiery forest full of dirty sinners.

[Christine]

Totally, totally. You know how it is.

[Em]

Then he's asked where he will go once the priest succeeds and finally casts him out. Where. Where. What's next for you?

[Christine]

Yeah. Wow. Once I fire you from this.

[Em]

This body, once I get you out of here, like, what's. What's on the docket for this? What's on your. Your calendar for the year?

[Christine]

It's the agenda.

[Em]

And the next thing he says is. I'm paraphrasing, obviously. He says, oh, you know, I have plans to possess this other woman, who, by the way, there are already two demons fighting over trying to possess her, but I'm gonna come in and, like, beat him to it.

[Christine]

Like an all cash offer. Like, what are you talking about?

[Em]

It sounds like. I don't know if, like, they're all gonna, like, three summit and, like, possess her together or. Or like, oh, I'm gonna win the fight and get in there before they.

[Christine]

Do some, though, too. Oh, threesome. The three demons.

[Em]

Yeah, I got you four in spirit, right? Three demonically, for sure. And then he did confirm, by the way. When you drive out a demon from a person, we just go possess someone else. We're just like the infestation just kind of around.

[Christine]

I really hope that's not true, because that sounds scary to me.

[Em]

I'll alert the priests in the area and see if they can get me a better answer for you.

[Christine]

Yeah, I'm curious because, like, if he's just walking around the woods, like, why can't he just keep walking around the woods? Why does he have to keep possessing people?

[Em]

You got to keep your cardio up, my guys.

[Christine]

I would. I would think you would just, like, find some solitude out there, you know.

[Em]

And if you can fly to another person, why are you walking anywhere?

[Christine]

Why are you not just, like, in hell, enjoying yourself?

[Em]

Yeah. Why aren't you just sitting somewhere laughing? Just that, like, all you've done.

[Christine]

I have a lot to.

[Em]

It's almost as if there's a lot of. A lot of clarification needed.

[Christine]

Yeah, No, I think otherwise, it's pretty straightforward. No, imagine you and I would be in the audience with our hands raised, and they'd be like, we're not taking questions. Be like, just real quick, one cue Just real quick.

[Em]

Well, here's another one. Beelzebub. Beelzebub is asked, are there a lot of demons? Are you just like one, or there's a lot or. Oh, you said you're gonna go possess this woman with two other. Like, how. How many are. Are there. Are there a lot? Beelzebub says, yes, more than there are flakes of snow. Okay.

[Christine]

Oh, charming.

[Em]

Beautiful. Then the priest asks, why was he able to even possess Nicola? Like, what's. How did you gain access to this girl? And Beelzebub says, well, a few years ago, Nicola and her sister, they lost a rosary that their mom gave them. And when they. When their mom found out, she screamed at them and said, may the devil take you. So here I am.

[Christine]

Imagine screaming that nowadays at. I feel like if I. If someone yelled that at their child, I don't even believe in whatever that is. But like, I'd be like, that's so inappropriate. I think it would still scare me. Sure.

[Em]

Of course, he. So he said that happened. She kind of gave me, like, she opened the window for me, and I. I've kind of had like some access to her this whole time, ever since her mom gave me that ability.

[Christine]

Whoa.

[Em]

But apparently later on in life, Nicola was then in a fight with her husband. Reminder, she is 15 with a husband, the 16th century. So I don't know what is. Okay, yeah.

[Christine]

What's like the deal? Yeah.

[Em]

But they got in a fight. Her husband also says, may the devil take you. And he's like, ahaha, I have even more power. And apparently since then, which I wonder if there's some play on, like, because he owns her as her property, then he gets the final say.

[Christine]

So her mother consented when she was 10 on her behalf. Now her husband consents not because she's 15, but because she's a woman and.

[Em]

His property, I guess.

[Christine]

And his property. Exactly.

[Em]

And so ever since then, Beelzebub kicked the door down and finally had access to her.

[Christine]

So it's like the men's fault is what they're saying. And I feel like we're not getting across that. That, that's. Well, in this case, it's the man's fault.

[Em]

And just like that, I. That's the end of my notes. It was a man's fault at the end.

[Christine]

I know. Who knew it would take us so long to figure out.

[Em]

So this is a quote from Beelzebub about how he has been trying to possess her from Beelzebub, how he's been trying to gain access Full access to possessing her this whole time, him up until the husband let him. I often throw her down to kill her. I throw her into the fire to burn her and into the river to drown her. I tempted her to say foolish and wicked things. And I tempted her to steal money from her grandfather. I urged her to steal from her parents. And she stole everything she could and she gave them to her neighbors. Okay, socialist, but also giving to your neighbor. Sounds like something Jesus would do, not be elsewhere. Right?

[Christine]

Like when you want it sounds more Robin Hood, like you said. Yeah.

[Em]

Yeah. So I'm already thinking that this is not Beelzebub speaking. Because if he thought his big final act would be I made her share, you know.

[Christine]

Yeah. I distributed the well. Well, I mean, I guess the Catholic Church would probably see it that way. Okay. The socialism is demonic. So you know.

[Em]

Well, it worked then because everyone was like, no, not the neighbors. So not the neighbors. Well then the priest, this is later on, the priest says, hey. So I don't know how we got. I don't know. I. I myself don't know how we got to this place. But at some point the priest does like some sort of status update. And it's like, how are you alone in Nicola? Or are there a lot of you? Like, because you're saying that demons can possess multiple. Multiple demons can come through. Are you alone? How many are there, Nicola? Slash, Beelzebub says 19 of us. Now tomorrow will be 20. But that's not all. For I must call all hell to my assistance.

[Christine]

What? And that's Beelzebub. Like he's pretty high the ranks.

[Em]

I know. Like why would you need. It actually makes Beelzebub look really weak. Like you need 20 other people.

[Christine]

20. And then he's like, I don't even know if I can handle fighting off two other demons for this other lady. Once you kick me out of here, which by the way, like wouldn't the smart answer have been like, you won't kick me out of here? Not like, oh, I'll go to somebody else. Like, you're already showing all your weakness.

[Em]

And to say I must call all hell for a 15 year old girl.

[Christine]

Come on, seriously, this is like embarrassing ease.

[Em]

Come on, come on. So the priest tells me, is that.

[Christine]

A new slang crime bb?

[Em]

You know, so. Oh, Beelzebubby.

[Christine]

Beelzebub. Oh, Beelzebub is little matzo ball.

[Em]

Okay. So the priest tells Beelzebub to leave. This by the way, becomes such a trend in the story. The priest says, leave if the devil says no and then they just do it over again tomorrow. Will they?

[Christine]

Won't they? You know.

[Em]

I know.

[Christine]

Etc.

[Em]

Lovers to enemies to lovers. So wow, the priests.

[Christine]

When you read that book, you thought it was gonna be like smutty.

[Em]

I haven't gotten to the end yet, but I will tell you. There's a kiss. I'm just kidding. In my old.

[Christine]

In middle. In 16th century old English. Yeah.

[Em]

Christine, you know, somewhere there is a 16th century fanfic about. About Jesus and Satan falling in love.

[Christine]

There's. I promise you there is.

[Em]

I promise someone's thought about it.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

And it's in old English and I've probably read it.

[Christine]

Totally wasn't me. I promise.

[Em]

If there isn't, can some. Can someone find some and send it to us? Because that would be. Oh, no. Okay. No, no.

[Christine]

I get enough smut sent to beach to Sandy. I don't need more smut sent to me. Send it to him.

[Em]

I'll take it. Yeah, that sounds great. I can. I can read it from fresh eyes since I never grew up with religious trauma. How about that?

[Christine]

Oh, there you go. See, it's a little more. Yeah, yeah. Off putting to me in that way. So maybe you'll really in. Maybe it'll turn you on.

[Em]

Maybe.

[Christine]

Maybe that's your thing.

[Em]

Maybe. Maybe I haven't discovered it yet.

[Christine]

Wow, that's beautiful.

[Em]

So the priest tells Beelzebub to leave. Beelzebub says about him and his 20 underlings. He says, we'll leave, but not now and not here. And then literally, like Batman or something says, my work is not done in this city. And then just like flees.

[Christine]

Wow. He walks through the woods. Yeah.

[Em]

He's for sure the fruitiest thing I've ever heard in my life.

[Christine]

Well, it's also just like so flashy.

[Em]

Like relax, you know, I mean, I fully believe that if there's a devil, he is the definition of camp.

[Christine]

Well, right. They couldn't be any other way at this point.

[Em]

In his fishnets. My work isn't done in the city. And just kind of flies off the cape.

[Christine]

Like gets flicked in someone's face. Yeah, no doubt, no doubt.

[Em]

Well, around this time, the priest starts hearing things at night and he's in his own house when he is like off the clock from doing these things. Millions of exorcisms.

[Christine]

Great.

[Em]

He starts hearing thuds, knocks, whistling upstairs when he's alone. Ew. And eventually, during one of these exorcisms, the priest even says, beelzebub, when you leave, Nicola, like, are you around ever? And Beelzebub said, well, last night I visited you. Camp. It's not camp. I'm gonna make a camp. Pretend it was camp. Everyone pretend a drag queen said that.

[Christine]

Yeah, well, pretend that the footsteps that you heard were clicks of high heels. Ye. And then he smelled something. He's like, hairspray. Like, what is going on?

[Em]

The whistling was to, like, oh, yeah, some Madonna or something.

[Christine]

Some feathers fell, but they were, like, hot pink.

[Em]

Yes, yes. Okay, okay, I'll get it together. I can hear myself spiraling. Okay. So the priest says, what are you up to? He says, oh, well, I visited you last night. And this time the priest decides he's gonna use the sacrament alone to make Beelzebub leave her body. Say, like, get out of here. Get out of here.

[Christine]

With, like, the Eucharist.

[Em]

I'm assuming a communion wafer.

[Christine]

Okay, gotcha.

[Em]

That's the best I can do because they just keep saying the sacrament. Never define what it is.

[Christine]

Hey, I have something, like, really cursed to say real quick. I hear music, and this happened to me once before.

[Em]

Oh, no, I. There's nothing happening over here.

[Christine]

No, I'm picking up a radio frequency through my headphones. I did this yesterday by accident somehow.

[Em]

Now, is this a joke? What are you talking.

[Christine]

I'm not even joking. I wish I were. Yesterday there was this country music playing, and I kept telling my brother to, like, turn. Like, figure out what it was. Turns out he, like, muted himself, and I still heard it. Took off my headphones, didn't hear anything. Put my headphones on. Ultimately, after, like, going through a million things, I realized, wait a minute. This is, like, a local radio station?

[Em]

And now, are you a transmitter?

[Christine]

I have a classic radio station Play or classic rock in my ears right now.

[Em]

No, the devil's music.

[Christine]

You know what? Oh, and you know what was wild? Is when you went like this. I heard, like, one of the, like.

[Em]

A drum, a tin.

[Christine]

What do you call this?

[Em]

Oh, that thing. Uhhuh.

[Christine]

And so when you did that was like. And I was like, whoa. How'd you do that? M. And then I went, oh, no, it's happening again.

[Em]

So are you, like. Can you pretend they're like rabbit ears on an old TV and, like, fuck with them?

[Christine]

That's maybe what I'll do. One moment. Moment.

[Em]

Can you pray it away?

[Christine]

That is so weird. I'm telling you, I have had the craziest happening to me, like, with electronics lately. Things are like. I'm not kidding you. I don't know what's going On, I have broken, like, three phones, two iPads, a bunch of vape pens. Anyway, me, like, that's weird.

[Em]

That is weird.

[Christine]

Yeah, it. It, like, won't stop light bulbs. Anyway, now I'm channeling classic radio.

[Em]

Can you still hear it?

[Christine]

No, it's gone now.

[Em]

Did you really pray it away? That's incredible.

[Christine]

I think I just kind of prayed it away. Not to the God of the Catholics, but to my. My own fire. I don't know. My mouth. Shasta. Yeah.

[Em]

So around this time, the priest started. Oh, hearing things at night.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. Me too. Was it classic rock?

[Em]

It's classic rock. And his headphones, symbols. So, okay, this is the part where I was at, where up until now, he's used, like, holy relics or he's done, like, a cross on the forehead or whatever just to piss off the demon. At this point, he's like, oh, my God.

[Christine]

I'm so sorry. I think my house is reacting to your story. I'm. I'm so sorry. I think you're getting everyone worked up over here.

[Em]

Everyone sensing it.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

At this point, the priest is like, fuck this. Like, we've done this back and forth too many times. I'm just gonna pull out the sacrament and I'm gonna say, get the hell away from her. And the closer he puts the sacrament to Nicola's body, that the Beelzebub starts freaking the fuck out. Eventually, Nicola's body starts contorting and winding and writhing, and Beelzebub flees temporarily again. This happens hundreds of fucking times. I'm so sick of it. But leaves for the day.

[Christine]

Flees temporarily. Yeah, clocked out.

[Em]

Flees.

[Christine]

Has such, like, a strong connotation of, like, just drama. And then it's, like, temporarily.

[Em]

He clocked out. He was like, my stories are on. I'll be back tomorrow.

[Christine]

Yeah, actually, I have to listen to a podcast in the woods or whatever is my new retreat.

[Em]

Well, this time I think this. If I'm right, then this was when the priests used the sacrament for the first time to make him leave. And on his way out of Nicola's body, Beelzebub badly damaged her arm to a point where he, like, stretched it longer than the other arm, and then it ends up paralyzed.

[Christine]

Oh, God.

[Em]

And this arm, there's also, like, parts of the. Of different sources that say he also hurt her foot. Nobody seems to give a shit about that. They only care about the arm. Okay, but so her arm is, like, heavily examined by doctors because everyone's like, is this real? Is this a hoax? We still don't know. So, like, let's. Let's look at this now. Paralyzed arm, doctors literally tricolor. Cutting into it, burning it. They do, like, the pins under the nails thing. I know, I know, I know, I know. But let's just say she is. It is definitely not moving around, and she's not reacting to it.

[Christine]

That's weird. And she's like, 15, right? I mean, it's not like she's been. Yeah.

[Em]

If I were 15 and I made up the story and then I found out someone's gonna put a pin under my fingernail, I'd be like, I give up. It was never real.

[Christine]

If I found out that someone was gonna put me on a stage and do an exorcism in front of a hundred people, I'd be like, buy them out. I want nothing to do with this. Stage fright. No, thanks.

[Em]

Well, leave it to the Catholics to insert this little part of the story in, is that they even let Protestant physicians.

[Christine]

Oh, wow, that's so big of them.

[Em]

Examine her when she was under these swoons. And they would let Protestants try whatever they needed to. They put unconsecrated bread soaked in wine next to her face, but it didn't work. And only when. When a true sacrament was placed next to her would she wake up from these trances. So just proving how powerful the sacrament truly is because it is indeed the flesh and blood of Christ.

[Christine]

That's exactly right.

[Em]

So at some point during these exorcisms, the Beelzebub, the demon, he's saying, whatever you do, don't take me to this one town. I think it's called Liay Lies. Whatever. Don't take me to this town. And if you promise not to take me to this town, then I'll leave right away. Right away. I'm so scared of that town. And the priest is like, what? Okay, well, obviously, we're gonna take you there right now.

[Christine]

But, I mean, I want to go. I'm curious.

[Em]

But being the demon he is, he was probably playing a mind game on them of like, don't take me there. Knowing he would get taken there.

[Christine]

Oh, that's pretty good reverse psychology. Yeah, Classic.

[Em]

He said, don't take me there. And the priest was like, we're going right now. On the way to that town, Beelzebub apparently fought it in every way possible. He created storms. He created accidents. The horse that was taking them got spooked at one point. The horse just was catatonic and stopped moving. It was very organ trail, I guess. And when the priest asked for when they finally got to this town and they're doing the exorcisms, he asks the demon again, status update. How many demons are there? Because last time you said 20. And then he goes, oh, actually now it's me and 29 others. And so that makes a total of 30. And three of them are, like, so powerful you wouldn't even believe.

[Christine]

And they all live in this town, Lys or whatever. Is that why they won't.

[Em]

We never find that out.

[Christine]

Oh, okay. So I think you're right because, like, why else would it suddenly be so many more people? More demons.

[Em]

Yeah. Or maybe this is where they would. Their power would be harnessed. I have no idea.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Em]

I do know that it's like a religious area, so maybe, like, for the sake of this, like, propaganda story.

[Christine]

Story. It's like, oh, this, like, ultra religious place.

[Em]

Okay, yeah, for the sake of the story, maybe it's like, oh, he really didn't want to go there because with the power of Christ, we'd really get him in this city. Whatever. So the Devil says, or Beelzebub. I don't know if he's the true devil. It's him plus 29.

[Christine]

A dark light just descended and M was engulfed in fiery flame. He said, I don't know if Beelzebub is the true devil. You said it in such, like, a manifesto, like, not the true devil.

[Em]

Well, okay, so like, in each of these sources, one of them would say Satan, one of them would say the Devil, one of them would say Beelzebub. You're right.

[Christine]

Because, like, Lucifer.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Anyway, go on. Yes, we've discussed this.

[Em]

Of these other 29 demons, we learned the names of three of them. And apparently they're the most powerful of these 29. There is Cerberus, Asteroth, and then Legio. Oh, so those three plus 26 more, plus Big Daddy Beelzebub. We've got all 30 of them. So during some of these exorcisms, now, knowing that there are 30 spirits in her, Beelzebub would talk to people in the crowd in different languages. And also he would listen and respond in different languages. So he would hear someone speaking French, he would say it.

[Christine]

And.

[Em]

He would mock the bishop and the clergy by whistling while they were doing their prayers. He would sing, he would mimic their voices, he would spit in their face, he would just scream randomly. And in moments where Nicola would be sound of mind and try to give confession to get this thing away from her, Beelzebub would appear out of Nowhere to make sure that she couldn't give confession. So she was a dirty runner from.

[Christine]

Back from the woods.

[Em]

So Beelzebub then said that, oh, he made a claim that Protestants actually stole the sacrament one time and they broke it and burned it and fed it to the. The savage animals.

[Christine]

Oh, my Lord.

[Em]

He was quoted also saying, quoted. I don't know how real this quote is, but allegedly Beelzebub said, my brave Protestants will treat God even worse than the Jews.

[Christine]

Oh, woof.

[Em]

And Bubby's little matzo ball is not happy about Beelzebub.

[Christine]

He needs to tone it down, man.

[Em]

Well, Beelzebub also pointed to some people in the crowd and just to scare them, would shout out their sins, their secret sins to the including, apparently he would point at some of the women in the crowd and be like, oh, by the way, you practice witchcraft and you practice witchcraft. Oh, and those girls, they grabbed their purses and they fucking left. They were like, I want nothing to do with that.

[Christine]

They were like, this was fun for.

[Em]

Belza. Then I. I think this was around the same time, or this was a separate exorcism. But one of the things he would like to do is morph Nicola's looks. So, like, he was, like, already distorting her face and things like that. But there was one instance where he turned her looks sensual beauty, which I think they're trying to, like, call her, like, slutty and impure. And he made Nicola make unseemly gestures and say euphemisms that were unbecoming of a lady.

[Christine]

Oh, my gosh.

[Em]

And then at some point during this, Nicola's tongue went, like, rigid and her face started contorting again until the priest put a cross to her eyes, ears and mouth. The priest then put more holy relics near her. Beelzebub laughed and said, oh, very well. I too will employ more powerful means against you. I shall call all the devils of hell to my aid. It's like you already have 30 of them and your Beelzebub, what else do you need?

[Christine]

I've already threatened this before, you know.

[Em]

Like, it's just sounding, like, circular at this point.

[Christine]

It's like hollow threats at this point. Yeah.

[Em]

Yes. So Beelzebub once again tries to put Nicola on a swoon, but which is only she's only brought back with the sacrament. This pisses me off because Beelzebub, at the end of every single exorcism, puts her in a swoon and it's like, easily fixed with the sacrament. Like, it's like, not even a problem. So why are you even doing it?

[Christine]

Yeah, it's, like, not even impressive anymore.

[Em]

When she came to this time, after her sensual, impure. Whatever moment, Nicola said that while under a trance, she saw scary monsters with fire coming out of their eyes and nose, threatening her and closing in on her while holding knives. Oh, God. Here are some more instances of things that happened behind closed doors that were not at the actual exorcisms because she was being haunted by something at home.

[Christine]

Right. Okay, so these were just, like, the. Okay, gotcha.

[Em]

And some of these are really fucking ridiculous. Remember last time I told you that there was a source I read, where she, like, saw a goblin?

[Christine]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Em]

So, like, why isn't that getting mentioned everywhere?

[Christine]

Yeah, the goblin and he, like, said something, and then. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Em]

So the things I just listed were things that happened publicly. These are the things that happen privately. One time, Nicola was at home with one of her younger sisters, and she levitates and flies into the air, and her sister tries to grab her to hold her down. And Beelzebub says, you little hussy. Will you not let your sister go? Go. And out of shock, her sister let go. Meals opens a window, throws Nicola out the window and onto the snow.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. Dramatic, Dramatic.

[Em]

Another time, an abnormally, abnormally large fly is buzzing around the room. And when Nicola's husband tried to catch it, it vanished. And at the same time, he got sucker punched in the face. Which apparently, it's interesting, because Beelzebub is known to be the God of flies. So.

[Christine]

Okay, that's intriguing.

[Em]

Another time, a less experienced priest was subbing for the main priest. Okay, rookie, rookie, rookie mistake. And while he was trying to start the exorcism or get things warmed up while the real priest got there, all of a sudden, BL's about comes through and says, now, come here, my dear. You'll play the devil, and I'll be the exorcist. Get on your knees and I'll exorcise you.

[Christine]

Whoa.

[Em]

And then the devil starts saying all of the priest parts, which I think is not supposed to be possible.

[Christine]

Oh.

[Em]

He starts making the sign of the cross, the devil himself, which makes you wonder more and more that it's just a teenage girl. And as soon as the real priest walked in, all activity stopped, as if he didn't know how. H. Another time, Nicola was staying at a friend's house, and they heard her suffocating. And when they ran to check on her, she was being smothered by her own pillows. And she said that the goblins had come back.

[Christine]

No.

[Em]

And that they had tried bribing her out of having another exorcism and letting the. The demon stay inside of her. And when she refused, they choked her to death. Or tried to choke her to death.

[Christine]

What in the.

[Em]

Another time a man. This one really freaks me out. Like, I feel like this could be like a listener story kind of thing. One time a man from the crowds who had been going to these exorcisms went to Nicola's house to talk to her. And the priest said, no, you're not allowed in because you could be the devil in disguise. If there's a devil in her, there could be a devil in you. I don't want you anywhere near this convening.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

And the man came in anyway. Yikes. On someone's property to go see a 15 year old girl.

[Christine]

Yep, that sounds right.

[Em]

And Nicola looked at him them and said in the. In her Beelzebub voice, baltazo, what are you doing here? And apparently Baltazo is the name of another demon. So like, shut the up. They recognized each other.

[Christine]

Ew, that's icky. I don't like that story when the. What are you doing here, buddy? It's been a while.

[Em]

I feel like. Well, they'll just let anyone in here now, won't they? So when the priest realizes that these priests dragged in. Look at the priest. When the priest realized that two demons are recognizing each other and like just schmoozing it up, he kicked the other guy out. Which. So the. That devil can listen to you and immediately leave the house, but this one can't. Interesting.

[Christine]

Maybe he's not strong enough. You know, he's still an amateur, that other devil.

[Em]

Well, either way, Beelzebub then looks at the priest and says, it is well that you always have someone watching over Nicola. Had you let that fellow alone with her, you'd never see her again.

[Christine]

What does it even mean?

[Em]

I don't know what that means. Like, was Baltazo the one who's weaker and able to just flee like that he was gonna do the damage that Beelzebub couldn't?

[Christine]

Yeah, Beelzebub feels like he's like Beelzebub with like Beelzebub, Beelzebub. And he's like off burn. Like he's pretending to be the real Beelzebub. Because I feel like he's not doing a very good job.

[Em]

He's all talk. I think he just has to make his cronies do everything.

[Christine]

He's really good at the talk because he keeps, like, accidentally showing his own weaknesses, you know?

[Em]

Know it's giving wizard of Oz where it's like, I'm gonna make others do things because I don't actually have power.

[Christine]

Yeah. And people think I do. Threatening you.

[Em]

One of the. This is the last one. I'll say. But this also felt really creepy too, is that during one of the exorcisms, Beelzebub points to a man in the crowd and he says, good morning, Peter. Say, what were you up to last night? And then starts describing all the sins that Peter had committed that night. Oh, Peter freaks out. He runs to confession, which, by the way, there were so many, like, people in this crowd, so they're calling for it. Oh, totally. I mean, they literally had priests, like, on standby in the cathedral to do, like, on site confessionals because everyone was going back to Catholicism.

[Christine]

Oh, God.

[Em]

Anyway, Peter finds is getting clocked by this demon. Freaks out, goes straight to a confession, and when he comes back to you, watch the rest of the exorcism, which I love that he came back. The priest asked Beelzebub, who's that guy over there, the one that you were just talking to? And Beelzebub says, oh, that's Peter. And the priest says, do you know anything else about him, like, what he was up to last night? And Beelzebub says, nope, I don't know anything else. I just know that his name is Peter. So it shows the power of a Catholic confession.

[Christine]

Oh. So it's like he cleansed himself, blocking.

[Em]

The devil from knowing you. So then that, of course, made everybody else want to go straight to confession.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. That's honestly genius marketing. Like, I'm serious. This is really good marketing.

[Em]

I feel like there's. There's a tick tocker somewhere who back in the 16th century would be like, I know exactly how to get everyone to be.

[Christine]

And he was that priest. He founded TikTok. Totally. Yeah.

[Em]

Okay, last thing I'm. I'm gonna talk about here, because I know I'm. This has been a while, but I want to get more into, like, the Catholics versus the Protestants and how the Protestants are feeling right now, because obviously, everything is very pro Catholic, anti Protestant. But as news spreads of Nicola's possession, Beelzebub being there, they're being called dirty Protestants and loyal servants to Beelzebub. And people are only getting confession or taking confession or giving confession to become Catholic again. And only the sacrament is the true blood. And that's the only thing that seems to be taking her out of these trances. The Protestants are like, I have to go over there and see this myself.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

And on top of that, we have to, like, go disprove this hoax that's making us look really bad. Yeah. Because someone's over there telling everyone that we're, like, servants of the devil. We have to go over there.

[Christine]

Yeah. And, like, we already know that this is just a wafer.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Like, sorry. We're the ones who know that for a fact. So, like, it's hard to get. You can't, like, convince us, though. You know what I mean?

[Em]

Mean, I'm not religious, obviously, between the two. I'm team Protestant right now, at least for this reason. And you know that all of them are sitting at a bar together, and they're going, am I crazy to think that we're not eating skin?

[Christine]

Like, yeah, yeah. Like, oh, my God, why didn't anyone say anything sooner, man? And we were all thinking it.

[Em]

So they go to these exorcisms. I. I wonder if, like, as a little a team, like, we're gonna get you, you know?

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They do some, like, recon, you know, they're like, let us see first themselves.

[Em]

They're in disguise as Catholics, in case anyone wonders.

[Christine]

Oh, that's hilarious. What does that mean? They just have rosaries.

[Em]

They're just like, I guess so.

[Christine]

I don't know.

[Em]

They just eat skin in front of everyone.

[Christine]

They're just, like, drinking blood. Like, this is what you guys like to do, right?

[Em]

This is your favorite thing.

[Christine]

We don't have this wrong.

[Em]

So, okay, they go to the exorcisms. Beelzebub calls them out by name immediately and says, look, there are some dirty, dirty, dirty Protestants.

[Christine]

Wow.

[Em]

He salutes them.

[Christine]

My friends. Hey, girl.

[Em]

And then even says, like, oh, did you know that I actually, in some way, cosmically ordered you to come here? And you being here is ob. Is proof that you obey me.

[Christine]

God's sake. So now they're doing like, a sibling. This feels like my brother and I arguing in, like, roundabout semantics. Like, technically, I made you come here, so I'm actually stronger than you, and.

[Em]

You actually are servants to me. If you're here to say no, then why are you here when I wanted you to be?

[Christine]

Exactly. It's like the ultimate gaslighting. Yes.

[Em]

So they wanted to say out loud to the public, like, hey, like, has anyone tried not using sacramental relics to, like, take her out of these trances? Because maybe there are some Protestant ways That work, too. Instead of you guys just like trashing us and saying, the Eucharist is the only way out. So let's do some Protestant things in front of the crowd. One of the preachers, Protestant preachers, he reads his Protestant Bible and the devil starts laughing at him. Him in front of everybody. So embarrassing.

[Christine]

So embarrassing.

[Em]

And then the devil goes, do you intend to expel me with your prayers and hymns? I help to compose them. You will not expel me. Did you ever hear of one devil driving out another, calling the Protestants devils like him?

[Christine]

Wow.

[Em]

And when the preacher said, I'm not a devil. I'm a servant of Christ, Beelzebub says, you are worse of a believer than I am. You do not want to believe. Do you think you can expel me from this miserable wretch? First expel the devils that are in your own own heart.

[Christine]

Where's Lin Manuel? Because he could make, like, the ultimate rap battle here. And I just feel that that's the only way to go creatively.

[Em]

I mean, Beelzebub would explode. There would be a great moment in that show for Beelzebub, and we'd call.

[Christine]

It Beelzebub's little Matzo Ball.

[Em]

That's right. I'm sure. I'm sure Beelzebub would love to be paired with the Jews. Yeah.

[Christine]

The Jewish. Jewish holiday. A Jewish Christmas. Mirac. I don't know. We'll find a way to market it to both. To everybody.

[Em]

To everybody. Yeah. The only person other than us who has ever pulled it off, by the way, was Tommy Pickles in the Hanukkah special.

[Christine]

You know what? And that is a really high bar we're going to have to try and aim for.

[Em]

So at this point, he's just like Dunkin on Slam Dunking on these projects, going, you're a devil. You're literally as bad as I am.

[Christine]

You're actually worse.

[Em]

And so when the Protestants decide to turn around and leave, one of them says, like, God, I pray that you'll help Nicola. And Beelzebub says, and I pray that Lucifer never leaves you and always keeps you firmly in his power. You are all mine, and I am your master.

[Christine]

Oh, my gosh, this is intense.

[Em]

And in front of everybody who's wondering if they should go back to Catholicism. Yikes.

[Christine]

I mean, ultimate marketing ploy.

[Em]

After this back and forth, Beelzebub leaves again. Puts Nicola on a swoon. Many Protestant preachers try to wake her, but they aunt. Until they begrudgingly put the sacrament to her mouth. She wakes up totally fine. And then the priest on stage with everybody, he looks at the crowd and he goes, go, go and tell everybody what you've witnessed. That the sacrament works and the Catholics are right, basically. This obviously does not fly with the Protestants. They are pissed off. So they demand that Nicola is arrested and held in a cell. And I don't know if that's like for slander or something. We never get into the details of that, but apparently why not? There's nothing else to do.

[Christine]

You can just citizens arrest people just for no good reason except they like made you embarrassed, you know.

[Em]

Well, it worked.

[Christine]

She was putting a cell, sent everybody to jail already. If people who embarrass me or like caused me to embarrass myself, the last.

[Em]

Man on earth maybe.

[Christine]

Exactly.

[Em]

At my like family Thanksgiving dinner table. I would have Thanksgiving alone, I guess. Or Christmas alone.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Everybody would be screwed.

[Em]

So, okay, so she's arrested. Now the chief magistrate and a Protestant doctor go to visit her to be like once and for all. Can you just tell us like how you're pulling this off? Which like, by the way, if you just hear everything I've said, it's a 15 year old girl talking. That's all that's happened so far. It is weird that she's able to know what some of the people in the crowd are up to, but maybe she's got a gossipy mom.

[Christine]

But maybe they mean more like, how are you doing this? Like, how are you? Like, are you in cahoots with this? Well, okay, how are you flying? But are you at cahoots with the priests? Like, how is this like whole hoax sure. Perpetrated, like, is it just you or is it. Is the church on it, you know, on it? I don't know.

[Em]

Well, they went to go ask her questions. When they showed up at the cell, she was asleep. But as soon as they walked in, Beelzebub came to and attacked the doctor, which I love that he's like in the cell.

[Christine]

Or it's like, it's a pretty easy peasy jail cell if you can just like willy nilly send people in there. So I imagine great security.

[Em]

It seems like it was unlocked, this cell and she was just snoozing in there. This is where the Catholics really tried to turn it for good on the Protestants. Because in this story, what happens next is he. The doctor's now been attacked by Beelzebub, so they say for revenge. The doctor tries to fight off Nikolash. She goes into one of her trances and the Doctor takes out of his medical bag a black liquid and puts it into Nikola closed mouth. And so some are like, is it to sedate her but she was already in a trance. Is it to wake her up to see if something other than the sacrament could work? Like, could just science fucking work? The. The book I read said that he literally tried to poison her in front, like, in front of the chief magistrate out of revenge and like, get away with attempting murder.

[Christine]

Yeah, it doesn't really make sense.

[Em]

I think he was trying to poison the demon inside of her and, like, didn't. It didn't occur to him that, like, he was also killing a 15 year old girl. You know what I mean? Or trying to. Yeah, I think he was trying to just see, like, would the demon arise from this and would it like, react.

[Christine]

To like something toxic? Yeah, sure.

[Em]

Yeah. Well, nothing happens. The only thing that works is begrudgingly putting the sacrament to her lips. She instantly wakes up.

[Christine]

Why do they keep doing it? Or is it the Catholics are there too? Because I think she just not even try at this point.

[Em]

I think the Protestants are like, we'll have one as a backup because it.

[Christine]

Seems to work, even though, okay, fine.

[Em]

So she wakes up and she starts screaming at the doctor that they tried to poison her, something in her is burning. And then she throws up the black liquid. Very exorcism. Like, whoa. And according to this, to the book I read, these Protestants realized in this moment she must not be faking it, because if she was really in a trance, how would she know that they put liquid in her body and now she's throwing it up because obviously the devil's reacting to it, not because, like, it's maybe epicac. And so now the magistrate says, release her from the cell. She is obviously innocent. She is a victim of. In all of this. And they instantaneously, the chief magistrate and the Protestant doctor become Catholics in that exact moment because they now believe that she was never faking it.

[Christine]

Oh, my God, that's absurd.

[Em]

The next day at the exorcism, the bishop asked, hey, Beelzebub, what'd you do last night? And Beelzebub says, don't you know? I was in the prison. The magistrate will not forget it. And the doctor gave this wretched creature some medicine. It was strong enough to poison 20 people. It was I who helped them prepare it. So he was not. Apparently he shouldn't have known any of that. But also, Nicola's body was literally there. Now she's reporting on it, so.

[Christine]

Right, exactly.

[Em]

And I have I'm sorry. I have five lines left. I know this is a long one. So after this, the Protestants are extra pissed. Maybe because they failed at poisoning her. Maybe because Beelzebub is accusing them of attempted murder. Maybe because she only woke up to the sacrament. So their beliefs are still being disproven. I don't know. Take your choice.

[Christine]

This feels like an Acme cart. Like a Looney Tune, the way everyone's, like, running around, and then they're like, I'm in jail. No, you're not. I poison you. No, you didn't.

[Em]

It's a Tom and Jerry of sorts, right?

[Christine]

Like, back and forth. Not nonsense.

[Em]

So the Protestants literally write to the bishop and demand that the exorcisms no longer be public. Maybe because they're embarrassed and they don't want people to keep saying that their Protestant ways aren't saving her. I don't know. But the tensions between Protestants and Catholics is overflowing at this point. That the bishop is, like, not a bad idea. Maybe we just make them private from now on because, like, there's now, like, mob uproars going on.

[Christine]

And, yeah, you're riling everybody up.

[Em]

So he says that the exorcisms will now be in a private chapel. But during the very first private exorcism, Beelzebub comes forward and says, I will not depart in this place. And now, because you have done this to me, my time possessing Nicola has prolonged. I will depart only in a public church. You have taken away the platform, but you must put it up again. So if you want me to leave Nicola, we have to keep doing these publicly, basically.

[Christine]

Oh, my God.

[Em]

So immediately after, like, two days, the bishop was like, okay, fine, we're gonna do these publicly again. So he'll leave faster. And when they go back out publicly, remember, Nicola has 30 demons in her.

[Christine]

Right. How can I forget?

[Em]

And the priest commands that they leave. Holds up the sacrament. And I don't know why this was the magical time that they listened.

[Christine]

Because they're in a church. Maybe.

[Em]

Oh, yeah. Maybe to say, like, thank you for God. Maybe to say, no, no, no. This is now. They've gone back to public exorcism.

[Christine]

Oh. Oh, I thought it was inside a church, not public. Outside still.

[Em]

Yeah, They're. They're back on stage.

[Christine]

Gotcha. Okay.

[Em]

On tour.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

And so now that they're on stage, I'm guessing this is, like, as a thank you to, like, listening to Beelzebub or, like, to, like. I. I have no idea. They go back out in Public. And during that exorcism, her and all 30 of her demons. The priest commands that they leave. He holds up the sacrament. The demons in her start freaking the out. She starts contorting again. Her eyes bulge out. Her face stretches and changes colors. Her limbs crack again. And now a black smoke leaves her mouth, which has not happened yet.

[Christine]

Ooh.

[Em]

And Beelzebub announces that 26 of the demons have left. And Nicola falls into another swoon, woken up by the sacrament. Per usual, her face changes back to what it was. And that leaves us with Beelzebub and those three powerful demons still inside of her for the. For the town to exercise, which will happen next week.

[Christine]

Part three.

[Em]

It's the. It's the final one, I promise. I. I'm trying so hard to get through this, but there's so much information, so I just feel so bad because I talked for like a full hour, so.

[Christine]

No, no, no. I. I needed to know about this Beelzebub, and I'm really already merchandising this in my mind.

[Em]

Beelzebubby.

[Christine]

Beelzebubby.

[Em]

I'm sure there is a mad Christian and Jew out there all at the same time.

[Christine]

I hope so. That's. That's my only hope. Hope that we could get this going as like an alternate to Elf on the Shelf. Be. As a bubby, you know, and it's like. It's not only like, it's not even really Jewish, like, religiously, it's just like, oh, I kind of like, put. Turn my nose up at the whole religiosity of the holidays.

[Em]

It's the flying Spaghetti monster of it all.

[Christine]

Yes, thank you.

[Em]

It's like the non Beelzebubby in the Tubby.

[Christine]

Non denominational. Yeah, Beelzebubby in the Tubby. That's. That's good. Yes.

[Em]

All right. Well, perfect. Anyway, yeah, that's. That's all of that.

[Christine]

We did our marketing meeting in the middle of our episode, as usual. Good. Good work there. I. This is seriously the most dramatic. It just makes me roll my eyes at the Catholics, as usual. They love. They love the drama.

[Em]

Yeah, I. I can tell as an outsider reading about this for the first time, even I'm literally sitting here with these notes being like, I can't piece this together.

[Christine]

No. And the wildest part is like, this shit still. I mean, okay, not as extreme as, like, these weird sideshow things, but like, it's still all very the same, like the. The procedures of exorcisms and the drinking the blood. I mean, it's all still, like, happening, so it's kind of freaky. But, I mean, listen, I'm not. I'm not knocking it for anyone else. It is certainly not for me anymore.

[Em]

But it was never for me. If that's. If you really think you're eating skin and drinking blood, rock on, brother.

[Christine]

It's when you say skin that really. It feels like it hits harder because I was told so many times the blood and body of Christ, like, it doesn't even mean anything to me anymore.

[Em]

Yeah, you have to trip them up.

[Christine]

The skin, like, that's where you're like, oh, are we sure it's literal? You're 110% sure.

[Em]

Okay. It's. When you drink the blood, you do taste iron. It does taste like pennies to you, right?

[Christine]

How anemic is it? Like, that's just disgusting. I'm so sorry.

[Em]

So question though. With trans sub, whatever.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

When you take a swig of wine, which apparently now in your mouth has become blood and is not at all dark magic.

[Christine]

No.

[Em]

If you were to spit it back out, does it become wine again? Or is it.

[Christine]

Can it only switch in your mouth? It happens when the priest blesses it.

[Em]

Oh, so you can be holding a cup of blood.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You'd be holding an entire box of blood. You could consecrate a. I'm not even joking. Like, a boat of box.

[Em]

And we haven't, like, gone to a doctor to, like, test the blood to see, like, was Jesus AB positive or whatever.

[Christine]

No, that's what I'm saying. It's willy nilly out there.

[Em]

All right.

[Christine]

Talk about, like, heathens. You know, you're just out there drinking blood out of cups willy nilly.

[Em]

And then they go, ah, vampires.

[Christine]

But then you wonder why Catholics like wine, right? It's like, obviously, you know, I see.

[Em]

I see. It's all coming together.

[Christine]

Okay. Actually, I do have an anecdote today. I. And you know, you know, we love an anecdote. Today I was looking online for a certain brand of sweatpants that I wanted to purchase, but it was so expensive, and I was looking for coupon codes, and I was like, wait, what am I doing? And I just hopped onto Quint's and found a comparable pair of sweatpants for. I think it was like, $60 less than the website I was using. I'm not even exaggerating. I was so thrilled that I got to buy two colors.

[Em]

Quint offers a range of high quality items at accessible prices, including 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters for $50, which we all own at this point. Yes, me, Christina Diva washable silk tops and dresses, organic cotton sweaters and 14 karat gold jewelry.

[Christine]

The best part is that Quinn's items obviously are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. And of course I do the little comparison where you can see it. Oh, it's so satisfying. By partnering directly with top factories, Quinn's cuts out the middleman and passes the savings onto to us. But they only work with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices along with premium fabrics and finishes. And that's just super important to me as well.

[Em]

Give yourself the luxury you deserve with Quince. Visit quince.com drink for free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Christine]

That's Q U I N C E.com drink I'm really excited about my underwear because it's from the Fitz Everybody collection. It's very soft. It's very like the. Even the colors I feel like are kind of trendy. And specifically it was the Fits Everybody full brief in the color jasp. If you want to look up what I apparently think is trendy and cool and maybe it's not, but whatever, I'm gonna keep it for as long as I possibly can because it's that comfortable.

[Em]

And this is from the Fits Everybody collection. Christine and I have different body types. If you are my grandmother, you would call me Zoftik.

[Christine]

And if I'm me, you're also gonna call you that.

[Em]

And I have. I did not get any underwear, but I did get the Fits Everybody T shirt. Can't tell you it is delightful. I feel like powerful.

[Christine]

Oh good. Okay, great. Yeah. Then that fits. That fits. The Fits Everybody collection is available in sizes extra extra small to 4x. You can shop now at skims.com and skim stores.

[Em]

After you place your order, be sure to let them know that we sent you select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop down menu. The follows okay.

[Christine]

So I awkwardly had to reteach myself part one of my own story story Love. Because I did that thing where we moved on to a new story and I kind of invested all my time in a new story and moved on from the last one, forgetting that I hadn't covered part two. So sorry about that, Leona. And I did like a little intro into my story last week. Or I guess now it's been like two weeks. I don't know anymore. I'm so sorry two weeks ago or a week ago when I forgot, but here we are Are. It's part two of Billy Joe Jenkins. I really apologize. I was not intentional. I think in my mind, we had just, you know, to it, and we just didn't. So I'm gonna give you a. A brief summary of what happened in part one. Previously on ATW D. That was the VHS skipping. I'm sorry. That wasn't me, because I was wrong. Winding. Okay. In part one, we talked about Billy Joe Jenkins. She was placed in foster care at age 9 with Lois and Shawn Jenkins in Hastings, outside of London on February 15, 1997. She stayed home alone to paint the patio doors as part of, like, her chores when her foster father, Sean, ran errands with the other kids.

[Em]

The other daughters, yes.

[Christine]

When Sean returned with his daughters, they found Billy on the patio, brutally attacked with a tent stake. And she had had a piece of a plastic bag stuffed up her nose that.

[Em]

Yes.

[Christine]

The neighbor removed. Oh, my. She had been laying on her back. And Sean called 999 saying Billy had had an accident. But when they arrived, they immediately realized it was foul play. A man seen acting strangely in a nearby park was investigated and also had a fetish for plastic bag material and was even found with it in his socks and his underwear. When he was arrested, it was determined that was a coincidence, and he was just a man with a mental illness who had been, you know, in the wrong place at the wrong time and had basically turned heads. So people kind of, you know, thought, maybe it's worth looking into. Fortunately, they realized that was not. There was no connection. He had a perfectly good alibi, and multiple people had noticed him far away when the murder had occurred nine days later. Fast forward. Sean was arrested after forensic experts found microscopic blood spray on his clothes. And this is her foster father, right?

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

And so, as the case unfolded, allegations began surfacing that Shawn had been violent toward both Billy and his wife Lois. And then I ended saying that the last. That one of the. One of the final pieces of that first. Jesus. Sorry. I have, like, a voice reader thing, and sometimes it automatically starts when I start scrolling, man. Just starts talking my ears. I'm so sorry.

[Em]

No, well, at the same time, my. The lawnmower just began. So if I.

[Christine]

We are on edge today, man.

[Em]

I thought that's what you were jumping at. I was like, is it that loud?

[Christine]

No, no. I did not even hear that through my own AI man shouting for the computer. Okay. So as the case unfolded, these allegations came out. The last thing that I had said was that in the track trial, one of Billy Joe's friends testified that at school, Billy Joe had come, you know, sometimes hiding marks or bruises. Her best friend said she once wore a scarf to cover injuries from Sean's abuse. On other occasions, she said Sean punched her in the face. And about a month before she was killed, she came to school with bruises on her arms and legs and told her friends, quote, I had an argument with my dad again. You can guess what happened, happened. And that's where we ended part one. And I think the reason it felt like such a conclusion is because you said, welp, I'm expecting it to go. The only possible way it can go is that he goes away for it. The end. And I said, sorry about plot twists.

[Em]

Yeah. I remember thinking, like, this feels like a clean cut situation.

[Christine]

Yes. And I think that is why. Because it felt right. Like, okay, great, now we got the guy. And. And we do. To be fair, we do have the guy. As far as I'm concerned. I believe we have the guy.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

But part two is Shawn's defense. So. Right.

[Em]

Yes.

[Christine]

Here we go.

[Em]

Let's hear what he has to say.

[Christine]

Yeah, you're going to love it, and you're going to just love it. Shawn admitted that he sometimes hit the girls with a slipper and even a ruler. But he insisted that the rest of her story and her friend's stories were untrue true. And even his version of the truth did not make him a murderer. That's part one.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

He said he only slapped Billy in the face one time, and it wasn't even that hard.

[Em]

I thought he only hit them with slippers and a ruler, but now he's slapping them in the face and only.

[Christine]

Slapped her once in the face.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

And he regretted doing it, so. So.

[Em]

Well, not to blame him.

[Christine]

So that kind of negates that whole one. Right. He dismissed Lois's claims of abuse. That's his wife. As an outright lie. And you want to know how it's. It's airtight. His reasoning.

[Em]

Because he doesn't like her anymore. What?

[Christine]

That's pretty dark. But also. Also along the same lines, he argued that a strong, educated woman such as his. Wife. Wife. Would never be able to or would never endure. Would never go through enduring abuse. So basically saying like, oh, you have to be weak, you know, and uneducated, essentially implying like, my wife is too strong and educated to endure domestic abuse.

[Em]

Only stupid people get abused. And my wife is so smart.

[Christine]

Yeah, exactly. It's. It's. It's disgusting is what it is. He said.

[Em]

And I stand by that. Right. And I've always said that.

[Christine]

And I've always said that. But it's like a lose, lose. Like, like, you're just insulting.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Women. It's just horrible.

[Em]

It's just. And it's victim blaming and on multiple levels.

[Christine]

And completely. Yes, exactly. It's like a very weirdly nuanced. But all bad on every level.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Comment. He said a strong, educated woman would not endure domestic abuse. And he later wrote, and I quote, the idea that a woman making an academic study into institutional abuse, abuse would have done nothing about it when it was happening to her was completely bewildering.

[Em]

Oh, that statement is pretty bewildering, my friend.

[Christine]

That's funny. Yeah, that drop quote is a little bewildering, my friend. I also hate that he wrote that down because it means he, like, thought it out and then, like, put it into words, you know, like, it's not on the stand. It's like he, like, thought to even worse words.

[Em]

He thought it and then went, now that'll get him.

[Christine]

Now that deserves a place in permanent history.

[Em]

I have to write that down because if I forget that, I've lost it all. Yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

Eva, please do us the honors. Write that down. No, don't. Oh, gosh. Okay. So as for Lois, his wife, the foster mother of Billy Joe, Lois said that Sean had begun acting strange sometime ago. Go. He lied about his academic achievements and professional qualifications on his cv, both to get the deputy headmaster position he held. He had gotten also a recent promotion, and he was working at an all boys private school as the headmaster. And apparently, you know, a lot of times, obviously, people will, like, exaggerate. I mean, I assume everyone exaggerates on their resume. That's kind of part of writing a resume. Like, just. Just. Just like, fudge or like, lean one way or another. And if you don't do that, you're supposed to be doing that out there. If you need, like, permission to, like, tweak a little bit, sometimes you need it. Okay. In my opinion.

[Em]

No, I 100% agree.

[Christine]

Okay, good. I was like, is this a me me waiver signing only?

[Em]

Well, Allison, like, I love her very much, but it is. It is unbearable. How honest of a person she is. And she. She is currently looking for a new job.

[Christine]

She wouldn't put. She wouldn't leave.

[Em]

She was putting in her resume. She was redoing her resume. And I was like, have you thought about just saying something else? Like, not that it's a bad resume, but I'm like, you could judge it. Like, no one's gonna judge it.

[Christine]

Like, that's the point. You're supposed to be, like, putting on a display of yourself. You know, it's like you can, like, sell yourself a little bit. Not in a gross way, but, you know. And what sucks is that, you know, all the bad people are doing it already, obviously, because, like, if the morally relatively neutral people like me are doing it, I'm surely, like, surely the wild ones out there are doing it. So that feels bad because that feels like an extra uphill battle for finding a job.

[Em]

I was like, well, no, everyone lost their job, so it's not like they can fact check with anyone anyway. So just do what you got to do.

[Christine]

It's like wild west out there.

[Em]

I know, but she's. She's. She's not like us.

[Christine]

You know what? But maybe that'll. Maybe that suits her. And maybe if you're out there and you feel weird about Misa saying that, I apologize. Maybe it's not for everybody, because I think. I think some people have a harder time with being, you know, with fudging numbers or exaggerating. I don't lean that way. I have a pretty easy time with.

[Em]

It, but I'm fine with it if it's gonna help me get a job and survive. Okay.

[Christine]

When it comes to, like, yeah, job hunting, it feels sort of like gloves are off, you know? But anyway, all that to say, that is not what I'm applying to this fellow right here.

[Em]

Yes. Gotcha.

[Christine]

To be clear, that's where we were headed. Not to me saying he did the right thing. He apparently wasn't just, like, lying, you know, like, saying he worked there a month longer or something like that.

[Em]

If Allison did that, she would cry.

[Christine]

No, I know. And now I do feel bad for folks. I wasn't trying to shame you if you're just not it. You don't want to lie. I don't. Don't do it just because I'm bullying you into doing it.

[Em]

I'll bully you.

[Christine]

Do it, and we'll bully you. I'll just say I'll validate you if you're like. If you feel guilty about it. I. I'm val here to validate. You don't have to feel guilty about it.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

Unless it's, like, real bad. Okay. And you should know. You should know so you know it wasn't a benign lie. He was lying out. Like, he was making up complete fabrications. Lois felt like this was almost this new pattern emerging, like a new personality trait, that he was just suddenly lying all the time he had also decided that suddenly he was going to get into politics. And so he wrote a manifesto.

[Em]

Okay, I've never heard of that. Going, well, thank you.

[Christine]

I was like, it's in my mind until proven otherwise. Just like the theory of gravity, like, it is pretty much always a red flag. Like, there's no wiggle room about a manifesto.

[Em]

Elizabeth, it this way. As someone with a constant craving to do something new, writing a manifesto has never been on the list, you know.

[Christine]

And now we're shaming all the people out there who want to write manifestos.

[Em]

I'm just curious, like, what's, like, your. I would like. I think anyone who's writing manifesto, like, I think they should at least give a pitch first to, like, a friend and be like, this is what it will be about.

[Christine]

And my first question. My first question would be, why must it be a manifesto? Why can't it be a novella? Why can't it be a live journal? Why can't it be a whole host of other things that we don't have to call a manifesto?

[Em]

Can you put it online for others to see? Or would you be worried about what they'd read? Or.

[Christine]

That's also question number two. Yes, that's an important question. Maybe that should be question number one. Then I'll get into question number two after that.

[Em]

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's at least one manifesto out there that is.

[Christine]

I'm sure there are. Yeah.

[Em]

But I have. I think in today's climate, the second I hear manifesto, I think, oh, I know. Yeah, that's where we stand.

[Christine]

I think that's my religion.

[Em]

That's. And that's my belief, and I've always said that, so.

[Christine]

And that's my belief, and I should be not taxed because of it.

[Em]

So, yeah, I think if today. If someone. If someone in my friend group was like, I'm going to write a manifesto, I. I'd be like, can we call it something else?

[Christine]

Can we call the police? Can we. Can we call you and check?

[Em]

You should know better. Like, maybe hold off for a little bit.

[Christine]

It's like, is that a weird joke? Are we, like, taking the word back?

[Em]

Yeah. Are we reclaiming manifesto?

[Christine]

Yeah, we're reclaiming the man. Oh, my God. Hang on. Now, that's interesting. Or is it totally not. I have no clue.

[Em]

Even Beelzebub didn't write a manifesto. I'll put it that way. Even the devil couldn't get themselves to do it.

[Christine]

But, you know, Beelzebubbie reads like teenagers. Manifestos in his tubby. Like, you know, that's his, like, his like, beach read is like teenage angsty manifestos. That's what he reads in the tub.

[Em]

I'd like to think that he went through. He was on like, Zanga at the same time. All of us were.

[Christine]

Oh, of course. Why else would it have existed? Like, that was not a healthy God filled place. Sorry.

[Em]

Certainly not. That was certainly a place of darkness.

[Christine]

It was like sacred in the darkest way.

[Em]

Did you have a Zanga or did you have a live journal?

[Christine]

I had a live journal. What did you have Zanga? No wonder. We. We were like ships in the night.

[Em]

I know. That's what. Well, you know, I think that was. That was divine intervention from Beelzebub himself.

[Christine]

From Beelzebub? From below.

[Em]

He's like these two, this Zhang and this live journal will find each other one day.

[Christine]

Demonic intervention. Yeah, yeah. It's too soon even for the demonic forces to take. Yeah, that's probably what it is. And so he decides he's gonna write a fucking manifesto. Lord help us all. And so some of these lies, of course, I have to bring examples right from his, like, resume and his manifesto where he's like, almost making up a whole new Persona. And this is supposed to be kind of a gauge, folks. Remember when I said, like, you could fudge by like a month, you know, or something? That's what I meant. Not this. He said he would regularly go to the theater, even though he had not gone to see a play in many years and had, like, never, never had an interest in theater going. But he, like, made it a big part of his whole identity all of a sudden. And his wife was like, you, like, don't even know. You don't even know play. Like, you don't even watch play.

[Em]

Name five plays.

[Christine]

Yeah, like literally name five plays. Exactly. And Hamilton is a musical. And that doesn't count.

[Em]

You know, like one that Lin Manuel Brando is working on does not count either.

[Christine]

That one actually counts. All five. So you. You're off scot free. But it's like, strange because when I'm saying, like, lie on your resume, I'm not saying, like, make makeup fabrications.

[Em]

You said that he got into politics. Like, I could see him writing in. In his live journal or his manifesto, like, I am the mayor. And it's like, oh, yeah, exactly.

[Christine]

It's almost like, how delusional can you get? Or is this delusion? Is it just like, so do we.

[Em]

Do we know? Like, did he, like, was he going through something did he snap? Did he or.

[Christine]

So that's kind of what's unclear, and I don't know why. Look, Lois, like, explains it this way. Like, I don't know if it's because she's explaining it this way that it sounds so, like, alarming. Yeah, right. Or if it's like, think if you're.

[Em]

Like, that close, if all of a sudden it was like a problem, you'd be like. You'd start with, like, compassion and be like, he's going through it, like, something.

[Christine]

Yeah. A step before this maybe. But I. I don't know, maybe they were on the. Who knows what their personal relationship was like. I don't know. Well, I mean, she. She even said he abused her. Right. And so, like, clearly, if he's physically abusive, domestically abusive toward her, who knows what else.

[Em]

He's always had something dark in him.

[Christine]

Like, exactly. He's, like, holding over her or harming her with. And so, yeah, I mean, it does make sense like, that you'd just be kind of confused, like, why are. I assume this guy always had some issues, but, like, maybe now they're just, quote, manifesting as. And I'm a. Now a theater goer, and it's like, you've never been to a play before, but. Okay. And so his behavior apparently was so strange that it started to create a rift between them. And so I guess she just kind of wrote it off, you know, as like, whatever. I mean, honestly, if he's an abusive man, like, a rift between them is probably not the worst thing anyway. Right. So. Sure. And she had four daughters to take care of, so she was. Thanks. Busy with that. So investigators accused Sean of more damning lies than just going to the theater. They actually accused him of several lies about the day that Billy was killed. So one example, I don't know if you remember, but the item he was allegedly going to the store to get with his daughters was white spirit, which you mentioned sounds like a liquor or something, but is actually paint thinner.

[Em]

So I do remember you saying that.

[Christine]

Not to be confused.

[Em]

Just now I thought, oh, a liquor. I just.

[Christine]

Not to be confused with a beverage. But apparently it's common over in the. In the UK as just a paint thinner solvent. We call it apparently white minerals over here, mineral spirits, something like that. I. I don't really understand. I don't know what it is, but apparently it's something that you just keep around the house like crazy glue. Maybe the people in the UK are like, what's crazy glue?

[Em]

You know, so it's crazy don't fucking.

[Christine]

Worry with the K. And that's how.

[Em]

You know crazy 444 or whatever.

[Christine]

Okay, we touched on the Live Journal and you were so respectful. And then all of a sudden you just the time I put my card down and suddenly wham. With the.

[Em]

I'm always crazy 444.

[Christine]

That's just bad.

[Em]

Do you know how badly I want to get in a time machine just to go on aim and search up your username and go. You have no idea what's in store for us. And then just a wait message.

[Christine]

Remember how we always all thought like we were going toward a better future with cyberbullying. Imagine when they invent time travel and we're all going back in time to bully each other by finding shit from 5th grade.

[Em]

I would love to go back in time and just say a random embarrassing thing about you that is yet to happen. So when it does happen to you, it sounds like someone predicted it a long time.

[Christine]

Oh my God.

[Em]

Something that stays with you. So when it does happen and you go. That person knew what was going on.

[Christine]

Yeah, they. Leona, come here. Come say hi. Come say hi. I want to show everybody your cool sweatshirt. Cuz Funkle M was with me when we got it.

[Em]

Hi, Leona. Can you hear me?

[Christine]

Hold on, let me put headphones on.

[Em]

Can you hear me? Leona, what are you doing today? Like a YouTube, huh?

[Christine]

Yeah, what's the question?

[Em]

I said, what are you doing today?

[Christine]

Where'd you just go to? Trampoline park.

[Em]

Trampoline park. Did you jump up and down? My headphones fell off my ears. Oh, gosh. Leona, put them back on. Come on. On. Did you jump up and down at the trampoline park?

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Did you jump like this? Did you do that? No, that's jumping.

[Christine]

Well, not hands like this.

[Em]

Oh. Did you fall at the trampoline park or you. You stayed up? Yeah, I stayed up. Okay, great. That's awesome. I. I would fall down. I think I'd fall right on my tush. I'd go just like that. What about else did you do? Did you eat any food to today? Did you have strawberries? Did you have noodles? Did you have what did you eat today?

[Christine]

You all did what? Are you all done? Yeah. Okay, say bye.

[Em]

Bye. Bye, girl.

[Christine]

I'm willing to. Bye bye.

[Em]

I love you.

[Christine]

Can keep talking.

[Em]

Nice. Yeah, put them on. Perfect. We're going to come back here. We're going to come back up here so you can take.

[Christine]

So I can take a shower.

[Em]

She did. She did jump up. And down. I checked.

[Christine]

Oh, excellent. Thank you for asking.

[Em]

And she did. She didn't fall. So you should be really lucky because that's blazes jeans, for sure.

[Christine]

Do you know what she's been doing to me lately? Which. That's blazes jeans. Yeah, for sure. So what's been. What she's been doing to me, which is, like, making me crazy, is that she'll ask me to film something, but then she'll act like I'm the one bothering her with my filming.

[Em]

She's such a diva. I love.

[Christine]

No, like, really. And so for just now, it's like, she wants to get on. She's always, like, asking to be filmed and, like, talk to people on the thing. And then she acts, like, all embarrassed and is like, my mom made me do this. And it's like, no, I didn't. I would never make you do that. Like, I was filming her yesterday, and because she wanted to show her slime, right? Like, she got slime. She wanted to show. Show it. So she's like, can you film it? So I start filming it, and then I'm like, do you like making videos? She goes, you like making videos? And I was like, I can't now. What am I gonna do? Everyone's gonna think I did that.

[Em]

Did she. Did she say YouTube when she got on here? Because I said, what do you. What'd you do today? Or what'd you do today? And I thought she said YouTube. I. She said, you.

[Christine]

Oh, oh, no, she said to me. Sorry. She said, you talk. Oh, oh, oh, oh. She wanted me to talk or talk. She said. Okay, yeah. That unfortunately has not happened. Or fortunately, I guess, because Blaze is currently the parent of the day, which means they're just doing activities and wholesome things that will make her brain grow.

[Em]

I, I. That's beautiful. I did ask her what she ate today, and she didn't respond, so I'm wondering if she's had nothing.

[Christine]

I can assure you that's not true.

[Em]

You're starving your kid. Should we talk about it? On.

[Christine]

I mean, I'm glad she didn't answer, because she probably would have said, like, half a donut, and I would have.

[Em]

Been like, oh, the rest of mommy's black coffee she spilled on the floor.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. The chips I found Gio eating. No, no, it's not that bad. I promise. Okay. This is so. This show. This is the dumbest show. I don't even know where we are. Okay, so. Oh, right. He lied about. Oh, God. Okay. He lied about being a theater goer There was a rift between them. You are making a funny joke. And then I got distracted by my child. I'm so sorry about that. Oh, the white spirit. They went to by the white spirit and it's like paint thinner and cra. We talked about Crazy Glue. Okay. Oh, and then we talked about Zanga for a while. Oh. Cuz he had a manifesto.

[Em]

We've had a lot of good times today.

[Christine]

Wow. We've had, we've had, we've. We've been through it all. Now, point being, his alibi was he was getting white spirit, this home craft glue or paint thinner with his three daughters when Billie Joe was murdered. Now the investigators thought that was a little strange because they found easily accessible white spirit in the house in the paint supplies.

[Em]

Right. So why is he going to get more?

[Christine]

Yeah. At the same time, Red handed made this point and I think it's a good point. Like sometimes you're like, I don't have Crazy glue or I don't have girl, we're out of super glue or whatever. We're out of masking tape. You don't even realize. And you like just run to the hardware store or.

[Em]

That's Allison's favorite game is to restock up on things. We have fully stocked.

[Christine]

Precisely. I'm like, I couldn't remember if it was completely full or completely empty. And it's usually it was completely full. So I bought another one which is.

[Em]

Okay. So Allison and I, we. I. When I say fight. No, we did not get in a fight. But I'm going to make it more dramatic than it was. We. We got in a fight because I just organized which I should send you a picture because I'm so proud of it. I just organized our whole little like baking area and they're all in like matching containers.

[Christine]

When you moved into your first apartment. I hope you remember that this is the exact thing you told us all when you moved into like years ago. Same thing. You organize the kitchen.

[Em]

People don't change. I don't know what to say.

[Christine]

It's just like us, circle of life.

[Em]

Well, everything's like in like it looks very, very like, you know, like an adult put it together. It's like the only adult thing I have to my name is that like all the baking is organized and labeled and wow.

[Christine]

That is.

[Em]

And we have exactly enough baking powder for the container I have for baking powder. This girl went out and bought more baking powder and then like a week later bought another thing of baking powder. And I'm like, are you gonna. You're gonna kill me. I. Like. Like, I can't do anything. Like, I can't. What am I gonna go buy another cont tater?

[Christine]

I need to go. I need to comment on this.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

Yesterday, I took a picture of four baking powders I found because Leona and I, for some godforsaken reason, decided to make cookies yesterday evening. And she and I have not even made cookies in, like, months, but we decided to make cookies. And I was like, oh, we need baking powder. I found four open containers.

[Em]

And also, like, what are you gonna like? Baking powder? Like, I think it's.

[Christine]

It's baking soda. You get it confused with baking powder. It's. Then you double that. You get. Mix them up, you buy both just in case. Now suddenly you got six of them.

[Em]

But still, the bake. Like. Like baking powder. As to people who certainly don't cook or bake often, like, now we've got so much baking powder, I promise you it will be around until I'm in my late 40s.

[Christine]

Yeah, well, I had to throw one away that expired in 2020, and I was like, oh, how many have been just floating around? You know, of all things, I guess it's not the worst. I had no least shelf stable.

[Em]

But still, I'm sure there's. She could cheat on me, but at the same time, like, this felt bad. Like, this hurt.

[Christine]

This felt like cheating on you.

[Em]

It certainly was to that level.

[Christine]

It's her version of cheating on you.

[Em]

I was like, if you ever bring baking powder into this house, we're done.

[Christine]

You should put, like, a salt circle around the house just to, like, prevent any further baking soda entry. I'm sure there's a hex you could do. You know, I think.

[Em]

I think I actually did ban her from any baking. I'm like, whatever. Whatever you need, you come to me. I will tell you.

[Christine]

You have the bathroom key to the baking 100%. You have the bathroom key to the baking cabinet.

[Em]

So anyway, I. I can relate to the getting things you don't need. Hence the. The white spirit.

[Christine]

Okay. I'm so glad I also can relate to that. I wonder why it took red handed only four seconds to say that. And it took us 16. I'm like, how far did I get? One.

[Em]

It's my favorite. And worst. And.

[Christine]

And worst. It's a blessing and a curse in the most, like, literal, demonic way. Oh, God. Okay.

[Em]

Yeah, okay, just go.

[Christine]

So they go to get white spirit. Allegedly, Right? Because then now the investigators are like, you already had white spirit, but what's More is that apparently when they got to the store, Sean hadn't even brought his wallet. So. So they didn't even buy any White Spirit and got back in the car and got home, which was also like, well, that's strange. I mean, it's not that strange, but it's also like, considering all the other stuff, it's worth noting. Now, finally, the daughters, the daughter's recollection of going to the store. Last time I did this story, you commented and asked about the timeline and what it looked like, and I said it was up for debate because it is not consistent among people storyline. So wouldn't you know it, Sean's story. Sean's timeline differs from his own daughter's timeline, and they were all on the quick trip to the grocery store together. But somehow his story is completely different from their version. So Sean's daughters told investigators it was odd because when they went to the store, their dad drove around the park twice to get there. Which. Which.

[Em]

Like, to kill time or something.

[Christine]

Yeah, exactly. Like, why would we take the time to do that? It doesn't make sense. Sean claimed he drove around the park because his car was facing the wrong direction to go to the store, but he had literally always done the opposite. Like, he had never done this maneuver before that the daughters were describing. They were like, he's never done that. It was very strange. We never.

[Em]

It was certainly noticeable, which means it was noticeable.

[Christine]

He went the other direction and then went back around again. Like, it was just weird, as if he was just circling the block a few times, you know? So very odd. Now, the prosecution is kind of leaning toward this theory of Shawn fabricating a need for a trip. Like, basically making up the story and then driving around the block to kill time, like you suggested, to make it more believable that a stranger had time to kill Billy while the four of them were out, which would explain why. Or I'm sorry, the three of them were out, which would explain why he didn't have his wallet. Like, maybe he was. He was just. This was all a ploy. So he didn't even plan to buy. But then if you were planning it, wouldn't you bring your wallet so that you had a receipt to show, like, exactly when you were at the store? Oh, but maybe that's defeats his whole plan, because.

[Em]

Maybe. I mean, also, like, if you're gonna do something that takes a long time, why would you just go to a store to pick something up? Like, why wouldn't you go to, like, lunch with your kids or something?

[Christine]

I Think he needed? Well, if, if. I don't remember if you recall the specifics of the crime, but it was like really opportunistic and like spur of the moment passion. And so I think the theory was more that like, in a panic, he's like, we need to buy some white spirit because Billy Jo was painting and she spilled it. And the story was that she had spilled paint on some of the window and the patio tiles because she was painting these doors. And so he was like, kids, get in the car, car. Like, we need to buy white spirit from the grocery, from the store, hardware store. Went around like the wrong direction or, or a new direction to them. Went around an extra time that was noticeable to the children, Got to the store, forgot his wallet, they all pile back in the car, they go home. Now, do you remember the other weird thing he did, which is that he climbed into his car and sat in his car after. After the EMTs arrived and like, was like refusing to.

[Em]

To answer questions or something. Or was it just he was sitting.

[Christine]

There, he just like went into his car. And at first they didn't really take any notice of it because there was an emergency, they were trying to. But obviously looking back, somebody had reported like this guy just went to his. So they definitely notated it. Like this guy went into his car and didn't tell his why, but now on the stand, he does have to tell them why. And he claimed that he went and sat in his car. By the way, the prosecution believed it was because if they found blood in the car, he could now say, oh, well, it's because I saw Billy and tried to help her and then I got in the car. That's why there's blood in the car. You know, maybe if he had killed her before the white spirit errand, then maybe he was afraid he had accidentally gotten evidence in his car. And so we jump back in and say, see, now I've like contaminated the crime scene. Basically, that was their theory. Of course, he did not say that that was the reason he got into his car. In fact, he claimed the reason that he got in the car was to put the roof up of the convertible. But it turns out that on that specific model of car, you have to close it from the outside. You can't do it from the inside.

[Em]

And also, why is that the thing you're doing right now?

[Christine]

Also that great point that didn't even phase you?

[Em]

I'd be like, there's other things, things to pay to prioritize right now.

[Christine]

Certainly not. Did not even phase Me, because I'm like, my brain just was like, immediate lie. But it didn't even occur to me, like, how stupid of a lie was. Like, because, like, why else. Why the fuck would you be doing that?

[Em]

Yeah, everyone would be like, can you come out and we can discuss a murder?

[Christine]

Like, that shows how out of touch you are with, like, real empathy or real, like, sense. Because, like, wouldn't you say I went in the car because I was hyperventilating and I was having a panic attack. Like, there's more believable scenarios if you're lying.

[Em]

I like, honestly thought it was like a valid thing he did if he.

[Christine]

I did too. Exactly.

[Em]

I'm just shutting down because, like, I don't know how to handle this.

[Christine]

You're so right. Like, it hadn't even occurred to me because to me I was like, well, who cares why he's going in the car that much? I mean, obviously it's weird and if I understand if he. That they would have to know.

[Em]

But I know if I witnessed like a murder that I was like, legally responsible, responsible for, like, like guardian wise, I would be like, I have to sit down in silence and like, think, like, that should have just been the answer.

[Christine]

I agreed. And because. Because it wasn't. I find that kind of shady. Like, I'm glad they asked. Honestly, I find that a little bit absurd that he would say, like, I went to close the convertible and they're like, your car. That is your car that you own.

[Em]

I guess it could be one of those things where, like, you're like, so distraught that you, like, go into like a task mode or try to distract yourself. Like you're in a denial phase.

[Christine]

Yeah, I don't think it was presented as that. I think it was presented as very much just like a, like a logic. Oh, before we went to the hospital, I wanted to put the roof of the car up or something like that. And they were like, well, yeah, the.

[Em]

Last thing I'd be thinking about is the roof of a car.

[Christine]

I know, I know. So that is very sensible and should have been my first thought. But my first thought keeps going back to like, you just opened the roof. Like you're. That's not even a good lie. Like, you just opened it to go to the store, presumably. And now you're like, you don't think they're going to realize that you can't close it from whatever.

[Em]

I just makes sense. I like, I know what you're saying.

[Christine]

It just baffles me that people think they can just lie so bl. Like. Like the fact that he's like, oh, they're not going to look up the model of car. It's like, well.

[Em]

Well, why wouldn't.

[Christine]

Back then. Maybe he's bragging like, oh, my car. My car roof slides from the.

[Em]

Could it. Could it. I mean, I. I know this is always my question, but, like, could it be a narcissist thing where he's like, I just wanted to see how far I could get away with it. And, like. Because maybe.

[Christine]

Right. Because, like, maybe he's saying, like, oh, they'll never catch. I mean, that's kind of what it reads, right? Because, like, I don't know if you remember this other part where they were, like, gonna arrest him. And he's like, can I just shave real quick? And they're like, yes, yes, no. And then they're like. He's like, o. Is this gonna take long? And they're like.

[Em]

Which is why part of me. Which is why part of me is like, did he. Maybe he hadn't snapped. And he's got, like, some dark going. But maybe, like, when it actually happened, he snapped and, like, just dissociated and just went like, nothing's wrong here.

[Christine]

Oh, right. And was like, I'm just gonna go like, do my. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. And like, do you remember the other fun fact that from last episode that he, like, had a copy of Silence of the Lambs on the table and he's like, I'll bring this. And then he's like, actually, on second thought, I probably shouldn't bring this.

[Em]

And they were like, which, like, that feels like another, like, the car roof situation where it's like, why are you wondering if you're gonna even have time to read?

[Christine]

Yeah, it's weird. Yeah. It's like. It's like. Yeah, agreed. It's like, something isn't right.

[Em]

Like, if my foster kid just got murdered.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

I wouldn't even be able to think. I wouldn't think. Gotta get myself an activity in case I get bored. What are you talking about? Yeah, no boredom. Here I am in full panic.

[Christine]

Yeah, that, like, wigs me out somehow. Exactly. Yeah. Really weird. So they brought that up. There was no way for him to explain that away. Anyway, Detectives, of course, like I said, accused him of trying to hide blood evidence by saying he got climbed in the car. That's why it's there. Although they did not, it's worth also noting that they didn't find any blood in the vehicle. Sean also claimed that he and Annie remained in the car While Lottie went inside and put her clarinet away way. So there's no way he could have killed Billy. This was sort of like, in the. In between. They were all running errands, and Lottie dropped off her clarinet, jumped back in the car to get the white spirit. That was his story, but that's not the girl story. According to them, Shawn did go inside the house. So there is a way he could have killed Billy Joe, presumably in light of this, Sean was like, okay, yeah, sure. Technically, I. I went up to the front door, and then they, like, pushed him on it, and he was like, okay, yeah. I went inside and I stood in the hallway, and they were like, okay. And he said, yeah. I stood there, but I could hear her music, but I couldn't see Billi at all. It's just weird, like, that. You're even making this, like, a. It's just. Something's off.

[Em]

Yeah. Like, what's the point of even saying any of that?

[Christine]

Exactly. It's like, you've already been told, like, caught saying, he said he waited in the car. Now he's just kind of, like, slowly inching closer to the crime scene. It's like, this makes you look more suspicious. And by the way, investigators had been on at the crime scene, they knew that if you stood in that hallway, literally right in front of you are the patio doors, like, there is no way he wouldn't have seen her. She would have been right there. So it didn't even make sense as a lie anyway.

[Em]

Well, he obviously wouldn't have seen her if he was preoccupied with, like, having to shave or something.

[Christine]

Right. And he was very preoccupied. He was Only on chapter 13 of Signs of Lambs, and he was shaving.

[Em]

I tell you, the only way that any of that makes sense is if he literally snapped and just fully just, like, went into, like, I want. I need something to control. I need a semblance of control. I'm going to go and, like, just totally, like, yeah, everything in front of him vanished. But, like, that requires, like, an intense, traumatic event that he. He allegedly is, like, responsible for. So. Yeah. Right.

[Christine]

So that's, like, his own doing anyway. If he's an abuser, a physical abuser, violent with his wife and his kids, it's just. So in any case, they're like. That doesn't make any sense. Here is the layout of the house. If you're standing here, you would see her. The jury got to literally visit the house during the trial because they were so. They wanted to be so clear about how the layout of the house was that even I now watching, like, two documentaries, know exactly what it looks like. Because the jury was taken there to see the view and say, okay. He claimed to stand right here and not interact or see Billy. And the jury was, like, not looking good. Lois claimed she noticed Sean coaching their daughter Annie on what to say in order to back up his story that he never went inside and that they weren't at the house for very long. One detective said Lois described listening to Sean tell Annie, quote, don't forget we were always together. Because she had been in the one.

[Em]

In the car, but had to, like, to have to prompt. That is scary. Also, he's. He's saying it to her of, like, before you fucking mess this up for me.

[Christine]

Yes. Yeah. And so that's what Lois testified, that she heard him saying that to their daughter. And so Lois also said Sean would separate Annie from the other children and repeatedly go over the timeline, like, to, like, yeah, you have to drill it into her.

[Em]

If you have to coach someone on what to say, then you pro. It's probably not what they would say naturally.

[Christine]

Especially, like, when you're already inconsistent. Like, the kids are already saying a different story than the dad about the timeline and the way spirit. Anyway, so you had asked about the timeline last time. Not last episode, two episodes ago. And I had said something like, oh, it's up for debate, or it's been debated. So on the 999 call, Sean said he had been out of the house for as long as 45 minutes. Like, that was at the scene of the murder. He called 999. They said, how long were you away? He said, about 45 minutes.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

They ask the girls. They say we were gone about 10, 10 minutes. And that included driving that loop extra wild. So the prosecution accused him of, like, stretching or exaggerating the time to make it more plausible that a stranger broke in like we had talked about. But Sean argued that he was just overwhelmed and confused and so, like, he just got the time wrong. But wouldn't you, in that moment, be like, we just left? Like, we were just. I mean, I don't know, whatever. Maybe my brain works differently, but. But I'm like, I'm trying.

[Em]

I don't know.

[Christine]

I'm 10 and 45. Feels like a big.

[Em]

That's a big stretch, right?

[Christine]

So, you know, this was another inconsistency. Basically, they're just, like, piling up all this stuff to be like, it's not looking good, you know, and. And plant some sort of seat in the Jury.

[Em]

Yeah, sure.

[Christine]

So Sean was also accused of purposefully avoiding assisting Billy in any way, which is, like, really dark to me.

[Em]

Yeah. So, like, maybe she. He watched her suffer. Her.

[Christine]

Well, they're sort of saying, like, he didn't even try to like, oh, I see her.

[Em]

If he found her. He didn't try to.

[Christine]

He didn't even try. Exactly.

[Em]

Because your first thought would be try to fix it and save them if there's any chance.

[Christine]

Exactly. And the neighbor came over and Denise Lancaster. And she pulled that.

[Em]

Yes. Out of her nose.

[Christine]

But he went into his car. Right. And so it's like, oh. Oh. You know, at the time, it's like, okay, maybe he was like, gonna throw up or maybe he was freaked out. But, like, then he's like, oh, no, it's just like opening the convertible or closing.

[Em]

Yeah. If he. If he really stuck with the. I was in full shock and panic.

[Christine]

Better explanation. Exactly. I totally agree. Yeah. And so that, like, scares me a little that he. He didn't even have the, like, thought to think. I don't know. But anyway, so an example of, like, how he didn't assist her at all. The 999 operator instructed him how to move Billy into a recovery position. And when paramedics arrived, she was still just lying on her back. How he found her. And it just like. It's so sad, like, whether he did this or not. It's like, what the. They're on the phone telling you. They're like, if there's any possible chance, here's what to do. And it's like, you don't even do it.

[Em]

He just, like checked out. Yeah.

[Christine]

Really dark. Which if.

[Em]

If he didn't do it and he was just in a full just psychosis of like, not knowing, like, just fully lost his marbles. I would hope that today he still feels, like, incredible guilt, like. Of like, I could have tried this or I should. Like, the what ifs. I would at least eat me alive. You know what I mean?

[Christine]

I know. Yeah. And that's part of it too, is like, there's just none of that. So it makes these look so much worse. Right. Because. Because it's like, oh, there's not even. Like he doesn't even care, like enough to make a good reason why. Like, it's just all adds insult to injury almost. But yeah, there's no guilt. In fact. Well, we'll get to it. But he's just such a douchebag.

[Em]

Okay, great.

[Christine]

He is. So when paramedics arrive, she's. She's Lying, like, he found her. He also said that he felt Billy's face and she was still warm form, and he believed she was still alive. Which, again, like, if you're feeling her and saying she's alive, she's alive, and the operators, like, then turn her into the position I'm asking you to.

[Em]

Yeah. Keep her alive. Yeah.

[Christine]

Like, it doesn't add up. Because if you're in such shock, then it's like, well, then why are you touching her?

[Em]

And, like, also, if you're saying she's alive and now she's not alive, it's like, what happened in the interim there?

[Christine]

Well, yeah, he didn't move her body. So if. If she technically was alive and that's what he's saying, saying, then I would also be worried. You could have had a chance to help save her. It's like, it doesn't look good no matter what.

[Em]

You know, I would also panic as, like, is that part of a. Is that some sort of manslaughter crime or something? Like, being like that, like, not. Not helping save her if she already was alive.

[Christine]

There is some sort of law like that. I know that, but I think. I mean, you really. It does look awfully suspicious of your given instructions. Like, you hear those stories about, like, what do you call it? Dispatcher saying, like, do cpr and they're trying to explain it, and then they just, like, won't do it. And you're like, what in the.

[Em]

It's like, that feels like a crime for sure.

[Christine]

It feels weird and wrong. Like, and even if it's not a crime, like, it still looks really shady if you're the suspect of the murder. Like, if you're suspected of committing the murder, it looks pretty shady that you didn't try to help even when you were given, like, explicit instructions on how to save your daughter's life. Like, it just does not add up at all to me. And anyway, you know, whatever. For what it's worth, he had said she was still warm, but when the neighbor, Denise Lancaster, felt her cheek, she said that her cheek had been cold to the touch.

[Em]

Oh, yeah.

[Christine]

It was also revealed that minutes after Shawn. Well, by the way, I should note, one of the reasons that I'm assuming they're thinking he didn't try and assist her in any way is because he knew she was already dead.

[Em]

Right.

[Christine]

Right. Like, he knew she couldn't be saved anyway. So when she. He's saying she's alive, he's, like, making it up to sound like she's still hanging on and so that I think. I'm assuming that was one of their running theories. But of course, you know, not according to him. It was also revealed that minutes. Now, this is. Might be the most damning thing. Well, unless you go with the shock theory again, but because he wasn't really acting in shock and was calling, calling, and was, like, communicating clearly with everyone, I don't buy that, but this is pretty damning. So it was revealed that minutes after Sean found Billy's dead body, and just to give it a little more, like, clarity, he even described a red bubble of blood popping. And that's how he got Aeroslide's blood spray spatter on him. That's how close and intimate he was with this body. Right, right. Of his daughter.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So it was revealed that minutes after he discovered her body, a colleague of his came by. Sean opened the door, chatted with him for several minutes, but never mentioned that anything was wrong or that Billy was dead on the patio, and at the.

[Em]

Very least, that there would be splatter all over him.

[Christine]

Well, it wasn't even all over him. It was, like, really light. That's why.

[Em]

Oh, okay.

[Christine]

He at first, like, claimed, like, oh, I wasn't near her, or whatever. They find blood and he's like, oh, that's because a.

[Em]

It popped on me.

[Christine]

Blood bubble popped on me. So it was, like, really light. It wasn't discernible. But he just completely, like. Like. But. But you're right. If it's shock and he's going through the motions, that does track. So it's sort of like, that does, I guess, grant you some leniency. But then with everything else added together, it just starts, like, to fall apart.

[Em]

Was there ever actually someone who came to the door and, like, do we have their testimony that, like.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, they were like. Like, he just told. We just chatted about work for several minutes, and then I left.

[Em]

Yeesh. Okay.

[Christine]

It's like. It's like. It's, like, alarming because, yeah, of course, in shock, you would do things that you think you wouldn't do or you kind of dissociate. Yes, I totally understand that. But it's sort of like that on top of, like, lying to the paramedics on the phone and, like, changing your story. Were you there? Were you not there? Were you gone 10 minutes? Were you on 45? Why are you coaching your dog daughter? You're already hitting your wife and your children.

[Em]

Why are you, like, chatting like nothing's wrong after discovering the body? It's talking to your friend and Then also you just go sit in the car to fix the roof. Which, like, which. That's another question. Like it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, it's such a small question, but like, I.

[Christine]

Can'T believe we could. That's what I kept getting stuck on this fucking roof.

[Em]

Well, also, it's like, have you. Have we talked to anyone who, like, has he always sat in the car when he changes the roof? Like, is this a new thing? Cause I feel like at some point beforehand he's changed the roof before and realized, oh, I can't do it when I'm sitting in the car. Cause it's an outsider.

[Christine]

Well, that's the whole thing I was saying is like, you just opened it before you went driving and you have to do it from the outside.

[Em]

I don't know why that one gets me so bad.

[Christine]

Opened it from outside. Cause it's so stupid. And it's stupid on every layer. Like, it's stupid on the layer I noticed and then it was stupid on the layer you noticed. And it's like all of it. You could have come up with a million better explanations and better lies, but it feels lazy. Like a lazy lie. It's like, no, I was just closing the roof.

[Em]

It's like, yeah, the.

[Christine]

Okay, I just. I. Sorry. I mean, I'm not sorry.

[Em]

You're good. I. I'm with you. I'm with you.

[Christine]

I'm not. Okay, so, yeah, the colleague, he just, you know, it was argued that, sure, he was in shock and he was going through the motion questions. So finally the defense posed a crucial question. How did Sean kill Billy in a matter of minutes and then calmly walk back out of the car, out to the car to Annie and Lottie without any visible blood on him? Because like you were saying, you'd think if he had something to do with this, he'd be covered in blood.

[Em]

At least he's wet.

[Christine]

Implausible, right? So that was the one question that like, nobody could really hear answer. But In July of 1998, the jury reached a unanimous decision and clared Sean guilty. He was sentenced to life in prison in July 2002. So that was four years later. Lois, his wife, had been remarried, so his ex wife and she moved to Tasmania, Australia with her new husband and the four daughters and her four daughters. Sean's defense team made appeals, but they were denied until July of 2004, 4, when the verdict was reviewed and overturned. And so this was only six years after he was sent to prison for murdering his daughter a Retrial was ordered to consider counter evidence about the blood spray. And on top of that, the defense believed that Annie and Lottie had been, like, coached by Lois, and then the other team thought they were coached by Sean. So they were all kind of in argument about the first trial and. And basically they brought it back up for review.

[Em]

Uh huh.

[Christine]

Now, Charlotte and Annie, the sisters, are 18 and 20, and they are summoned from Australia. I'm sorry, I shouldn't say now. I meant then now, but yes, then. So now, sisters Charlotte, Annie, age 18 and 20, are summoned from Australia as women witnesses. And to give you some perspective, this is now eight years later. So Charlotte was 10 and Annie was 12. Neither of them had strong recollections of the day Billy was killed. And they didn't remember saying certain things that Lois claimed they had said. But, you know, it'd been eight years and they were little kids, so it was hard to remember. Ultimately, the jury could not agree upon a verdict, and the case went to trial a third time.

[Em]

Wow. Okay.

[Christine]

This time, the prosecution submitted new evidence. Evidence that bone and flesh fragments, as well as pieces of metal were discovered in the microscopic blood spray on Sean's clothes.

[Em]

Oh. Oh.

[Christine]

It claimed this could not possibly have come from the aerosol respirated out of her nose, the. The bubble that he explained. But the evidence was submitted too near the trial date, and it would have taken far too long, according to the judge, to delay to give them time to research the data with their own experts on the defense side. So to avoid further delay, the judge ruled not to allow the evidence at trial. And to be fair, there is something to be said because blood spray forensics are already a bit controversial to be used as evidence. Um, there's like, legitimacy issues there. They are often claimed as being no more scientific than polygraphs and just as like, a little evidence that. In 2022, a study supported by the U.S. national Institute of Justice found that practicing expert bloodstain pattern analysts were wrong in their observations and conclusions at an error rate as high as 34%. How so? That's the margin of error we're dealing with when we're doing blood spatter analysis.

[Em]

Especially one in three is, yeah, wow, yeah.

[Christine]

Or two can't be, is like inconclusive or is incorrect. But it was still, like, highly controversial to not include the evidence because it did sound so damning that they. If they did find pieces of metal in his blood, you know, then maybe that would have really turned the tables. But the jury could not reach a decision, and they did not order a fourth trial. So Sean Jenkins was formally acquitted and released from prison.

[Em]

I did not see it going that way at all.

[Christine]

I know, I know. Outside the courthouse, Maggie Coster and Bev Williams, Billy's aunts by birth, attacked Sean, punching him and kicking him. And then they turned to a camera and said, justice didn't do it, so we had to do it our ourselves.

[Em]

Okay. Okay.

[Christine]

That's all I have to say about that.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

One of Billy's aunts also shouted, it's not over yet. Jenkins, you child killer. In 2012, Shawn Jenkins, he tried to sue for wrongful imprisonment and he lost that settlement of. He tried to claim as much as £500,000.

[Em]

My. Just a cool, casual half a mil.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. And thankfully, he was denied. Billy's father, Bill, had since passed away from cancer, but his wife said he would have been thrilled that Shawn did not receive that. I like to think maybe he had some intervention involved from the afterlife, but apparently his wife said he would have been so thrilled because he was 100% sure that this man had been responsible for his daughter's death, even if the courts didn't agree. Unfortunately, Billy's family couldn't file a civil suit against him for murder either, or for killing their daughter because the statute of limitations on filing had passed while Sean was in prison. And how would they know that it would get overturned? You know, so it feels kind of unfair now. For what it's worth, Sean has sworn he will not rest until Billy's killer is found.

[Em]

In case you didn't hear the eye roll Christine made.

[Christine]

Yeah, Life, dude. Dude. He has since published a book, of course he has. About his experience.

[Em]

Manifesto or a manifesto?

[Christine]

No, that's a different thing. Yeah, yeah, that's a manifesto, not a book. Since Sean was acquitted, many people have undertaken amateur investigations online and accused dozens of other people, including Billy's own foster sisters, which I'm like, what? I mean, I don't know. It's not unheard of, but the one of them was a 10 year old girl. I don't know. I.

[Em]

Right.

[Christine]

It sounds like a lot of Reddit sleuthing. Police urge anyone with any information about Billy's death to come forward. And they really hope that someday advancing forensic technology could close the case. You know, if it's not. If it's not Sean, I apologize for thinking it was you. But also, I don't apologize for calling you a douchebag because you are still an abusive person. Yeah, yeah, so. And seemingly a really, like, just kind of shitty person. So, so please or anyone to come forward. You know, hopefully we find some answers. Billy's best friend Holly spoke of her grief in one of the documentaries and has like a photo of Billy with the family dog who was wearing Billy's glasses in the picture. And she like has it there in her house and she always takes it with her when she moves. And, um, and her other friend Laura said she wondered if they would be watching Billie on TV and stage and movies today if she were alive. So, you know, on top of everything else, just a lot of what, what ifs and what could have been and shoulda, coulda, woulda because of the, you know, fostering situation and all that, that kind of added a lot of pain for both sides of the family. Remember when the like, foster mother came to the funeral despite explicitly being asked not to?

[Em]

Oh, yeah. Oh, I remember having the whole thing about that last time.

[Christine]

It was like, talk about, like in poor taste, you know, like the, the birth mother asked kindly who was paying for the funeral and burial. Like ask kindly for you to not attend.

[Em]

And then it's like, also, yeah, yes, 100 just ippy.

[Christine]

Anyway, I really.

[Em]

I didn't see. I did not see him being. I really thought you were just going to tell me, like his side and we were both going to have a laugh and then I was going to be. Anyway, he's still in jail.

[Christine]

I mean, listen, for all I know he's. He's a rejuvenated soul and things are better and I can only hope and what have you. But all I know is he's out there and having a good time and I hope I didn't say too many bad things about him because I don't want to get in trouble.

[Em]

I think if he's starting out as a confirmed abuse abuser, then it's, you.

[Christine]

Know, what self identified. He said I only hit them a few times and it wasn't hard. So.

[Em]

Yeah, yeah. It doesn't start. Good for you at that point. So.

[Christine]

Good point.

[Em]

We were, you know, it. It definitely pushed us. I don't know what the right word is. It moves our opinion of you a different way on that alone. So.

[Christine]

Yeah. Pushes the needle. Isn't that what they say? Moves the needle.

[Em]

Moves the needle.

[Christine]

Pushes the needle. Sounds scary. Never mind.

[Em]

Yeah. O well, a good part two. I'm glad I waited two whole weeks for it.

[Christine]

I know. See, I wanted to keep you on edge and myself apparently.

[Em]

Next week I promise I'm going to finish my story. And it's a shorter. This was the longest part of it, I just want. I feel.

[Christine]

Next week I'll start part four of my next story.

[Em]

Please.

[Christine]

And then I'll start part.

[Em]

You should start a part four and the next week do the part one. And then it's like a big puzzle.

[Christine]

You have to figure it out. Like one of those annoying ones where you slide them. Yeah.

[Em]

Don't even get me started.

[Christine]

I can't stand it.

[Em]

I've never figured out how to even.

[Christine]

Do them that make me so mad at myself and the world.

[Em]

If someone said, you have a year to solve this easy level slide puzzle and the entire world will have universal healthcare, I would not be able to do it. I would be a failure to everybody.

[Christine]

Beelzebub would come our way and say, my faithful servants, take this slide puzzle and don't finish.

[Em]

A slide puzzle is at. To me, a slide puzzle and a Rubik's cube are the exact same level of difficult. And they're both.

[Christine]

And they're both Satan's work.

[Em]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Christine]

They're both the work of the devil.

[Em]

100%.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Okay, well, if you would like to hear us keep yapping, you can do that at yappy hour. If you go find us. What's his website? Is it patreon.com ATWD podcast? Yes.

[Christine]

Yes.

[Em]

Cool. Yeah. If you want to hear more of this.

[Christine]

I'll talk about when I went to Cracker Barrel the other day.

[Em]

Oh, great, A Kentucky Cracker Barrel. I am sure everything.

[Christine]

Excuse me, it was an Indiana Cracker Barrel.

[Em]

Oh, well, I'm. I'm sure all you have to say is wholesome things.

[Christine]

Yeah, it was.

[Em]

So we'll. We'll go chat about that and until then, come see us on Tour. We've got 13 more shows, but I guess when this comes out, we'll have like 11 or 10 more shows.

[Christine]

Yeah, something like that.

[Em]

That and yeah, we'll see you over there. And that's why we drink.