E434 A Haunted Pamphlet Collection and the Invention of Forensic Husbandry

Summary

Podcast Summary: And That's Why We Drink - Episode E434 Title: A Haunted Pamphlet Collection and the Invention of Forensic Husbandry
Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz
Release Date: June 1, 2025

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I. Introduction

In Episode E434 of And That's Why We Drink, hosts Christine Schiefer and Em Schulz delve into the eerie intersection of historical folklore and modern true crime. This episode, aptly titled "A Haunted Pamphlet Collection and the Invention of Forensic Husbandry," explores a 17th-century pamphlet that intertwines themes of the paranormal with mysterious agricultural phenomena, setting the stage for a gripping true crime narrative.

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II. The Mowing Devil: Unveiling Historical Folklore

A. Discovery and Description

Christine and Em introduce listeners to an enigmatic pamphlet from 1678 titled "Strange News out of Hertfordshire," which narrates the tale of the "Mowing Devil." This pamphlet, resembling a newspaper article of its time, features a woodcut illustration depicting a demonic figure wielding a scythe amidst flames and crops.

Em (27:48): "Here comes Hank with his toy. That's the news article. Breaking."

B. Analyzing the Story

The pamphlet recounts the tale of a disgruntled farmer who, after declining a mower's wage request, invokes the devil to harvest his crops. That very night, the farmer's fields inexplicably burn, only to be mowed to perfection by supernatural means. The narrative serves as a cautionary tale against greed and mistreatment of workers.

Em (31:41): "The devil shall mow it rather than you."

C. Modern Interpretations and Crop Circles

The hosts discuss how UFO enthusiasts in the 1980s linked the pamphlet to the phenomenon of crop circles, proposing it as the earliest evidence of such occurrences. However, Christine and Em critically examine this theory, suggesting that the original context points more towards a supernatural explanation rooted in the beliefs of the 17th century.

Em (47:39): "It's like me at that dog birthday party."

III. Forensic Husbandry: Bridging Folklore and Modern Forensics

The episode introduces the concept of "forensic husbandry," a fictional or perhaps metaphorical term coined by the hosts to describe the meticulous forensic techniques applied to the historical pamphlet. This blend of archaic storytelling and contemporary forensic analysis underscores the enduring fascination with unraveling historical mysteries through modern lenses.

Christine (52:12): "It's like, well, the fires were the clue."

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IV. True Crime Spotlight: The Disappearance of Allison Jackson Foy and Angela Noble Rothen

A. Background on Allison Jackson Foy

Allison Jackson Foy, born Allison Mazaluski in March 1972, was a beloved dance instructor from Long Island, New York. Dedicated to her family, Allison's life took a tumultuous turn in 2005 when financial strains and marital conflicts led her to relocate her family to Wilmington, North Carolina.

Christine (64:00): "Allison drove to Lisa's with her youngest daughter, Jordan."

B. Sudden Disappearance

In July 2006, just four days into her new job as an assistant manager at a local Holiday Inn, Allison vanished after celebrating with her best friend, Chris Williams, at Junction Pub and Billiards. Despite initial assumptions of a voluntary departure, anomalies such as the lack of taxi records and her husband Mike's delayed report to the police raised suspicions.

Em (76:07): "That's a great point."

C. Investigation and Suspects

A private investigator, Mark Benson, uncovered that a man named Tim Ioannoni, previously convicted of violent crimes, was associated with the area where Allison disappeared. Despite strong suspicions linking Tim to the case, insufficient physical evidence prevented his indictment for Allison's and Angela's murders.

Christine (85:34): "The killer is still out there."

D. Discovery of Remains

In April 2008, human remains were found near the bar where Allison was last seen. The initial discovery included remains inconsistent with only Allison, leading to the identification of Angela Noble Rothen's remains as well. This grim finding intensified the investigation, pointing further towards Tim Ioannoni despite his denial and lack of direct evidence.

Em (93:29): "Wow."

E. Legal Outcomes and Continued Mystery

Although numerous women accused Tim of violent assaults, including at the murder sites, his only convictions stemmed from historical rape and kidnapping charges, resolved decades later due to forensic advancements. Allison's case remains unresolved, with her family clinging to hope for justice.

Christine (103:35): "I do. I just hope."

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V. Reflections and Conclusions

Christine and Em conclude the episode by reflecting on the intersections of historical folklore and modern true crime investigations. They emphasize the importance of technological advancements in solving cold cases and express hope for the eventual resolution of Allison and Angela's mysteries. The episode underscores the enduring human quest to uncover the truth behind unexplained and tragic events, whether rooted in superstition or reality.

Em (104:00): "That's a good point."

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Notable Quotes

• Em (31:41): "The devil shall mow it rather than you."
• Christine (85:34): "The killer is still out there."
• Em (47:39): "It's like me at that dog birthday party."
• Christine (52:12): "It's like, well, the fires were the clue."
• Em (93:29): "Wow."
• Christine (103:35): "I do. I just hope."

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Final Thoughts

Episode E434 of And That's Why We Drink masterfully blends historical intrigue with contemporary true crime, offering listeners a deep dive into the mysteries that span centuries. Through engaging storytelling and insightful analysis, Christine and Em illuminate the shadows where murder and the paranormal intertwine, all while sipping their favorite beverages. For enthusiasts of both ghost stories and true crime, this episode promises a chilling yet captivating experience.

Transcript

[Em]

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[Christine]

Is brought to you by Stay Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want is a great feeling. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. Hello to you and me. Hello. Sorry, it's been a while since we recorded. I feel like my body's flying apart. My. Everything's fine. I'm sorry. Hi. Hello. This isn't. That's why we drink. We're back. I'm sorry for the two delays. I'm just in a lot of pain all the time. And it's. It's Em. Had to do all the ads. It's been A. It's been a doozy.

[Em]

So I like doing the ads. You have yet to hear the one I did for cat food, haven't you?

[Christine]

Oh, God, I can't wait. Yeah, I have yet to hear that. I did use the cat said cat food, and the cats really have become deranged about it. So I feel like whatever you said, probably, that's accurate.

[Em]

Yeah, I didn't say anything. That's just what Juniper and Moonshine said on the ad.

[Christine]

So they got on the horn. Okay. I didn't realize they said they had plans. I didn't realize it was, like, doing this podcast.

[Em]

I didn't want them to. They. It was against my will.

[Christine]

Thank you. That they. I'm glad to know that they don't just, you know, like to. To insert themselves in my life, but your life, too, without asking.

[Em]

No, no.

[Christine]

What's going on behind you there? I feel like that those just appeared. Are those. Have those been there the whole time?

[Em]

Oh, my God. I thought you.

[Christine]

Sorry, I.

[Em]

My bad.

[Christine]

Shadow.

[Em]

Figures.

[Christine]

Right.

[Em]

Why do I think you meant a whole group of people standing behind.

[Christine]

Who's that? Who's. What's the party? No.

[Em]

So. Okay. I've shown you before. I think I'm actually.

[Christine]

You have. I haven't seen them hung up until this week.

[Em]

I think Allison meant well, but I hadn't hung them up yet because I wanted to, like, you see, like, the white part in the. Like, I wanted to fix that. Of course, that's not like a border. That's one shot paper. So. And I don't know how to take them down. And I can't take them down until she comes back in three months, so.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. Is this your fucking. That the way that the microphone just cut out? Because it. You, like, peaked. The audio peaked, and I just. I just had to watch your face for clues.

[Em]

Three months is what?

[Christine]

Three months is crazy. Is she there already, though?

[Em]

Yes, she's there. So.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Em]

Just me and.

[Christine]

Is she liking it? As a nanny, in the first five days, it feels like I would be really not liking it. But I feel like Allison maybe is.

[Em]

You would know best, certainly. I feel like every day I get a different answer about that.

[Christine]

Interesting. Well, that's actually probably not surprising. Yeah, it'll probably be ups and downs, huh?

[Em]

Yeah, well, I think. Because I don't know enough about babies to know if this is common or not. I know babies sleep a lot. I don't know if this baby's, like, sleeping more than other babies, but the way that she's Describing it sounds like this baby is only ever asleep.

[Christine]

That's great. Tell her to enjoy this part while it lasts, because three months in, it's not gonna be like this anymore.

[Em]

Well, the baby is either sleeping nonstop or crying nonstop, which does sound very, like, common, but I think it's just obviously a lot once you're like, it's gotta be jarring.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

You know better than anyone. It's certainly jarring.

[Christine]

Upset Leona. Didn't some babies cry a lot? Like, Leona wasn't colicky or anything and didn't cry much. But, like, some babies cry a lot. So I feel like with my sister, she cried every second of every day. And I think some babies are just a little more.

[Em]

I think it's more like she, like, only. She will only sleep with, like, skin on skin contact, and so Allison can't, like, do anything. So there have been days where Allison has texted me, and she's like, we're never having children. And then there's other days, and then.

[Christine]

There'S like, I'm shirtless with this baby on me, and I don't like it.

[Em]

There are other days where she's like, it's not as bad as I said the other day, but also, I am very sleepy.

[Christine]

So actually it sounds like she's really getting the hang of it. That sounds exactly, perfectly exactly how I text plays every day. We shouldn't have done this. Just kidding. I'm having a good time.

[Em]

That's how I feel with Hank. Every other five minutes, I'm like, what did I do?

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

By the way, one of the reasons I drink is he has pink eye again, so I don't know where he's getting it from. So now I feel like I have to, like, deep clean all.

[Christine]

How in the world does this dog keep getting conjunctivitis?

[Em]

I don't know, but it, like, it's just, like, pouring out of. He just keeps leaking. It's disgusting. He seems totally fine with it. I'm the one with a problem with it.

[Christine]

To answer your question.

[Em]

Yeah, to answer your question about the wall for other people, there's three of them. So these are. I can't say too much without triangulating myself, but my house used to be owned by the Warner Brothers lot, and it was, like, an apartment building. Not an apartment building. It was one of the apartment houses that they would rent out to vaudeville actors. And so that's pretty cool. Where I'm in is the kitchen. And so as a little nod to, like, being, like, a studio lot house These are the three studios original commissary menus from, like, the 20s and 30s.

[Christine]

Did you. So where did you come? Did you print these or did you purchase them?

[Em]

No, there's a company. God, of course. Now I wish I knew the. I think it's literally called, like, vintagemenus.com or something.

[Christine]

That's fun.

[Em]

But they're at, like, every art fair we go to. They seem to always be on the roster. And I've been staring at them forever. And I actually bought these when we lived in our apartment. I was like, one day in our house, I'm hanging these up in our house not knowing we would even be a studio.

[Christine]

Lot, like, relevant to the actual menus. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Em]

So it's just like a little nod to like, oh, you know, back in the day, this actually was a part of Warner Brothers.

[Christine]

That's so cool. And that it worked out like, that. It's like you knew, you know.

[Em]

And all the food is disgusting too, because it's from the 20s and 30s.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah. What's your favorite thing on there? I know I've asked you this before. I feel like before they were hung up, but I think we talked about it actually in. In yappy hour at one point.

[Em]

We must have. Yeah, it's all like. It's all just old school stuff. It's like boiled steak and yum sherbet.

[Christine]

Boiled ste.

[Em]

Lima beans. Like, things that, like, people know and order anymore. At some point, maybe I'll take a picture of them and we can, like, post them. Speak.

[Christine]

Okay. I'm super amped about this because. Is it called vintage menu art maybe?

[Em]

Yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

Because I'm looking in here and they have them from all over the world.

[Em]

And all over. You can type in, like, your own state and everything.

[Christine]

Oh, I'm gonna have the time of my life here. Unfortunately, there's no, oh, other usa. Maybe I'm in there. Wow, these are amazing.

[Em]

I love them. I just wish that they sized them properly to a picture frame because I have to, like, cut them and figure out.

[Christine]

Oh, well, you know, if they were serving lima beans back then, I think they weren't probably thinking about, like, besides frames Michaels would offer in the.

[Em]

Michelle's Watch my mouth.

[Christine]

My huge mistake. I apologize. Wow. Pig and whistle Atlanta. These are. You guys. You guys have to look at. Oh, my God. The original pancake house from the 1950s.

[Em]

I just looked at the dessert for Warner Brothers, and it's walnut cake and orange marmalade preserves.

[Christine]

That feels like literally what my great grandma would Be like, special occasion.

[Em]

Royal and cherries and preserved figs. Those are your options for dessert. Enjoy.

[Christine]

Good thing I'm not a dessert person.

[Em]

What's going on on your wall back there? Are you in bed again?

[Christine]

Okay, no. This is actually a green screen because I like people to feel like I'm relatable. I'm actually on my yacht right now. I think I actually just copied this joke from beach to Sandy. I'm not positive where I heard it before, but I've definitely not invented it. But now it's my joke. I'm sitting in front of a green screen. I'm actually on my yacht. But I want people. Yeah, thanks. I want people to think I'm relatable so it looks like I'm in bed.

[Em]

I really. You at least cater to the masses. That's really nice.

[Christine]

Good. Oh, well, guess what, Blaze?

[Em]

An ethical billionaire, as they would call you.

[Christine]

Thank you. I'm the first ethical billionaire. Can you believe it? Who knew there was a way this whole time, um, I, I. For my birthday, you know how I never go my office? Cause I'm, like, just overwhelmed by its existence. And it just gets messier and messier and. And dustier and dustier. Well, apparently, which I didn't know, Blaze, for my birthday, has been cleaning it and organizing it and, like, vacuuming it.

[Em]

I like that it was so messy, you didn't even notice that it was slowly getting clean.

[Christine]

Well, I didn't go in there. I literally stopped going in there. And one time I went in to put something down. Went, huh? Like, what happened? Like, I basically locked it off. Like one of those locked doors that people don't let their grandkids enter because there's something scary in there. And I. I literally locked the door and was like, I'm not going in. Blaze cleaned it up for me. So that was nice.

[Em]

That's very nice. That's a huge.

[Christine]

Yeah, that was a very. So I think soon I'll be back out of bed and back in my office. And I apologize if it bothers people. I don't know if it does because I don't read YouTube comments, but if it does, I do apologize, but I will be out of here soon. I think Blaze actually probably was tired of me recording from bed for hours and hours.

[Em]

He' like, this is where I say.

[Christine]

When you're doing my nap time. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, that's what's happening here.

[Em]

Do you have a reason why you drink and what you drink?

[Christine]

Oh, my God. Well, like I said, my body's Falling apart. I did have to take. I didn't have to take anything, but I took some Tylenol and I took. So I took this like, pain. Okay, here's the thing. I didn't take pink before. Everyone worries that I'll be face down in the bathroom again. Like the time Allison had to like rescue me from the floor.

[Em]

Between you and me, Me and Allison, Allison and you. The three of us just have stories for days.

[Christine]

I feel like we could write the weirdest like three party memoir. You know, I don't know what happen, but it would be weird. It would probably just be all the times I was on the ground actually and you guys had to help me for various reasons. No. So I, I like have been feeling after our tour, I was like, oh, I'm so exhausted and I feel. Feel like my body's like doing that thing where you finally get home and it like is like we, we can forget cold. Yeah, yeah, I think I'm getting some sort of cold or flu. But then I went to get some blood, like just basic blood work drawn. And they were like, oh, you have three like out of range things. And I was like, that's weird. I don't usually have much out of range, but so I looked and it was like, oh, the range for normal, it was like ant, like inflammatory response is like a ratio of 1 to 6. 60 between 8 between 60 and 80. And I was like, okay, then I don't understand why my's wrong. And then I kept looking at it and realized, oh, there's a zero at the end of mine. It's not 64, it's 640. I was like, why does it say out of range?

[Em]

I don't understand.

[Christine]

And then I was like, well, that's weird. I feel fine. Maybe it's a fluke. And then I woke up and my aura ring was like, we have major signs of your body being under stress. We're turning off the like the activity mode. You should stay home today. I'm like, what's happening?

[Em]

Maybe. I mean, was it just like you were just living off adrenaline for the last couple weeks and now or like you couldn't feel your.

[Christine]

I think so. And I think it's just like the busyness. And then when after that, like, I know you went on your. You went on a trip and I went with, I think your family or whatever. And I went with Blaze's family and it was like just kind of non stop and.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And when we got home and I was like, I mean. And then I was like, I feel fine. And then as the day progresses, like, parts of my body have started hurting, and I'm like, oh. So I don't know, because I'm also due for Remicade tomorrow, so. Right.

[Em]

So maybe half of it'll get fixed.

[Christine]

I hope that it helps, because the psorias. It's like. It does kind of validate, though, because I'm like, oh, I have, like, all these psoriasis patches and. And my body hurts and I'm tired, and it's like, oh, well, 1 to 640. Like, I guess I have a reason to feel kind of crummy.

[Em]

That is not good. Wow.

[Christine]

Hi, Leona. Goodbye.

[Em]

See ya.

[Christine]

You're going to your new school now. You're going to look at the outside. That's why I'll tell you. Okay. Have a good time. Cool. I haven't seen the outside yet. You haven't seen the outside yet? Yeah, go ahead and look at it. You can't tell me what you're going to get at the mall? Why? Something for next week. And what's next week?

[Em]

I cannot tell you.

[Christine]

You cannot tell me? Can it be my birthday? The best day of the year. Okay, bye. Thanks for buying me presents. You have Hank, I have a toddler.

[Em]

Any thoughts on what she's going to get you at the front of her school?

[Christine]

Yeah, actually. A fucking grass. An acorn and a piece of grass. Yeah. Yeah, I've gotten a few acorns recently, so I imagine it's a pine cone, an acorn, something along those lines.

[Em]

Nice. Nice.

[Christine]

Yeah. She keeps saying, I can't tell you about the card I'm making you for your birthday because it's a surprise. And I'm like, sure. She's like, I can't tell you about the dog I drew on it. I'm like, cool.

[Em]

Call it a win that you've got a kid who can't keep secrets.

[Christine]

That's true. You know what? Very true. And Blaze can't either. So I'm living life way out in the open, people. At least I hope. Unless he's that good.

[Em]

Yeah, it's always the quiet one sometimes.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's a fair point.

[Em]

But anyway, he's not sneaky, but he is quiet. They are very similar, and they're serious.

[Christine]

Those feel mysterious enough. Yeah. But anyway, so I basically, I took, like, a Tylenol. Then I took a pain Am, like, weed gummy thing that's supposed to. And cbd, which is supposed to really help with aches and pains. So we'll See what happens today. But I'm feeling kind of wackadoo. So why do you drink?

[Em]

I had a reason. Oh. I'm getting becoming chummy with everyone at the dog park. I already was. But I am finally getting invited to things. And I had lunch, dinner, and a birthday party this weekend, all from different dog owners.

[Christine]

Jesus, you are like a toddler parent. I'm just birthday party to picnic to birthday party.

[Em]

Just like back to my sorority days. I'm like, oh, I got a thing. I have to leave.

[Christine]

I know you're so busy. Gio literally stuck his whole head in and went like, can I come? Because I really haven't taken him on a social outing for a while.

[Em]

Okay. But sorry. By the way, speaking of the birthday party attendant, he. He keeps dropping the bone on the hardwood floor to get attention.

[Christine]

I love that it's working.

[Em]

I also drugged him, and it's not working.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah, it's not.

[Em]

Does he need a pink?

[Christine]

Maybe you should drug yourself. That's what I do. Like a pain. Take a. Take a pain. Am.

[Em]

I took him. I took him on an hour and a half walk this morning, so that way, hopefully that he'd be tired. And then on top of that, I gave him doggy cbd and he has no interest in not moving.

[Christine]

Yeah, it sounds like he's thriving, so.

[Em]

I guess that's why I drink. But what I was going to say is that I went to this doggy birthday. It was not what I was expecting.

[Christine]

I feel like, what was it? Because I don't think I've ever been to a doggy birthday. Besides the one we threw for Gio.

[Em]

It was. It was fine. I mean, like, the. It was basically just a. Like the dog park, but at someone's house, which was great, but the people who were there. I didn't know anybody who went to this party. So I had to meet all new people outside of the dog park.

[Christine]

Right. And their dogs, presumably.

[Em]

And their dogs. And Hank was the only big one. So then all of them were, like, freaked out about having a big dog. He didn't do anything. I think they were just, like, freaked out that, like, maybe the small ones don't like big ones. And now the small ones were freaking out. It's like, I think there was some change that people were already like, can he leave as soon as he got there?

[Christine]

No.

[Em]

Felt a little cut out of the party. He didn't even do anything. He was just sitting in the corner. But there was, like, one little yippee dog who, like, wouldn't stop barking because a big dog was there. And then for some reason it was Hank's fault and not the yippee dogs.

[Christine]

It's not fair.

[Em]

Anyway, we. We left early. No. And I'm sorry. Puppy.

[Christine]

Or something.

[Em]

He was fed. Well, don't worry.

[Christine]

He's. He's fine.

[Em]

Anyway, I just drink because I was like, oh, I branched out and then I just kind of. I mean, it was.

[Christine]

I feel like that happens. Like, I remember when I first got you. I went to a few dog events and I was like, I'm the only person here. And it was like no fault of the people who ran it, but it was like, clearly, like I was so excited. And then nobody else showed up and. Or like one other person. We were like, this is kind of awkward. So. Yeah, like, that happens.

[Em]

Have you had yet to go to like a toddler, like, birthday party where like. Like you don't really want to be there or like, are you having fun at all of them?

[Christine]

Well, usually it's at like some place. So like it's either at like a trampoline park or like. So it's kind of like the kids just run around and you don't really have to do much. You kind of just follow your own kid around and then there's like cake and everybody goes back and eats cake and then runs around again. So it's kind of nice because I feel like it's just a. An outing.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And you can kind of do it was.

[Em]

The vibes were weird and I was like, maybe it's just because I don't know how dog parties work yet, but I was also the only one who brought a present for the dog.

[Christine]

What?

[Em]

Birthday party?

[Christine]

Wild to me. And then they make you feel like you're the. Yeah, forget it. You should have taken that present back. I know that's not classy, but, man, that. That's rude of them.

[Em]

I. Anyway, it was just an odd experience, but I can say that I went to one and yours was better the all eight years ago, so.

[Christine]

Oh, well, to be fair, you were the one who brought all the decor and accoutrement for that because you put the wine bottle or label on the bottle of the geo. Bottle of wine and all that.

[Em]

You said birthday party. I said, okay, I'm going. Yeah, I.

[Christine]

You went hard for that first one and I will never forget it.

[Em]

So thank you. Well, I guess that's why I drink because now I'm just like, my weekends are now being taken up with like, that's amazing adjacent things.

[Christine]

It Feels like we're in a sep. In like, a parallel life journey in that way. Because I. I just went to a birthday party over the weekend, and I was like. But again, it was like, outside, so it was like, as long. I think it's probably similar with the dog, but it's like, oh, you at least have the excuse of you can, like, tend to your child or your dog so you're not just standing there, like, blankly. It's like we all have something going on.

[Em]

But he was so shy and stood in the corner that when I was attending to him, we were both just standing in the corner.

[Christine]

That's right. Yeah. That's good. That's sad.

[Em]

And the only time he felt brave enough to approach anyone was to eat the bowl of popcorn off the table. So it was just, like, not a good time.

[Christine]

Then they were like, get out of here.

[Em]

At one point, he tried to. Like, they made. They made hot dogs and like, I guess, like, the hot grill. He tried to, like, fucking counter surf on the grill. And then everyone was like, is he okay? And I was like, let him learn. He's like, maybe he will never jump again.

[Christine]

He's charred his belly. Okay. It's all right.

[Em]

Well, apparently he. He yipped. And I think everyone was freaked out that, like, I wasn't more concerned. Like, I checked his palsy's not. Like, there's not like, they're not fried off.

[Christine]

Like, he's right, right, right, right, right.

[Em]

But I think I. I came across as, like, the generation before us, and I was like, rub some dirt in it. Like, I think I was a little too bad about it.

[Christine]

Right? You were like, he'll. He didn't learn not to touch the hot stove.

[Em]

I don't think I'm gonna be invited back. Let's just put it that way. And for that. For that, I drink a San Pellegrino Beveragino.

[Christine]

Because that's class is what that says.

[Em]

Tangerine and strawberry mixed together.

[Christine]

You know, I've never had that. And that sounds like my dream flavor combo.

[Em]

Yeah, I just. I've never seen it either. So obviously I made a purchase. What is he drinking? I don't have. I'm waiting to crack it open.

[Christine]

Oh, I see. I have my scrappy water bottle. My. Oops, sorry. My Scrappy Stanley.

[Em]

So I like how you call it Scrappy Stanley.

[Christine]

It also has the rat. It just feels kind of scrappy, you know, it's like. It's got. Drink up, rat. It's got my name really big. It's got this squirrel saying, watch out.

[Em]

That was obviously when we were gone. I had dog sitters here. That was the only cup that was in the sink. I think it was maybe a fan favorite.

[Christine]

Oh, love that. Yay.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

Hey, how about the cup with the giant rat on the side? Honey, you want to use this one?

[Em]

And they said yes, actually, I can see it.

[Christine]

I would say yes.

[Em]

Christine, what is that in your hand?

[Christine]

Oh, thank you so much for asking. This is my special cornbread hemp. Okay. I keep it on my nightstand and I wanted to prove it. I actually keep it here with my birds of Kentucky field guide. They're right back to back because they're both very important tools.

[Em]

Christine actually keeps it on her nice hand with everything that's important to her, which is why right before this ad, everything spilled when she reached for her cornbread hemp.

[Christine]

Exactly. Now it's completely empty and just my cornbread and my bird bird book are there. Anyway, if you have been looking like I always am, for a natural way to relieve aches and discomfort, the CBD gummies from Cornbread Hemp are formulated to work with your body, not against it. It really does, like, soothe the aches. And as someone who's always aching, that has been a game changer for me.

[Em]

Cornbread Hemp CBD gummies are made to help you feel better, whether it's stress, discomfort, or just a little relaxation is. If that's what you want. That's exactly what I want all the time.

[Christine]

Me too.

[Em]

They only use the best part of the hemp plant, the flower for the purest and most potent cbd. And it's formulated to help relieve, like we said, discomfort, stress, and sleeplessness. That's. That's something. Yeah. Something I think a lot of us deal with.

[Christine]

All products are third party, lab tested and USDA organic to ensure safety and purity. Also, they're Kentucky local, Kentucky brand. So I love to support them. They're awesome right now. And that's why we drink listeners can save 30% on their first order. Just head to cornbreadhemp.com drink and use code DRINK at checkout.

[Em]

That's cornbreadhemp.com Drink and use code DRINK.

[Christine]

Listen, I'm busy.

[Em]

I don't have time to go on big shopping sprees, first of all. I do, but I do like short ones as well.

[Christine]

That's why I'm so busy. I'm just shopping all the time.

[Em]

My whole schedule is big shopping, little shopping, big shopping, little shop. But when it comes to little shopping, especially in the spring, And Summer, our next partner solved our clothing problem once and for all with Daily Look. Daily look is the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women. With Daily look, you get your own dedicated personal stylist to curate a box of clothes based on your body shape preferences, lifestyle. So if you happen to be Christine and you're like, all my shirts have like bass on them.

[Christine]

Yeah, fish.

[Em]

Daily look can do it. If they can do that, they can do anything.

[Christine]

That's actually pretty amazing. How it works is simple. You fill out their style quiz. You love a quiz. We love a quiz including your price and lifestyle preferences. I actually said like, I'd love some like kind of classier, like look, you know, more, more classy pieces and to, to work with my fish attire. And they sent me some really cute pants. Oh my gosh. You get up to 12 hand selected items delivered to your home and then you buy what you love and just send back the rest. And the shipping. Daily look offers free shipping both ways. So it's super easy.

[Em]

It's time to get your own personal stylist with Daily Look. Head to DailyLook.com to take your style quiz and use code drink for 50 off your first order.

[Christine]

Oh, okay, I'm gonna do that once again, that's dailylook.com for 50 off. And make sure you use our promo code drink so they know we sent you one last time. Dailylook.com promo code drink.

[Em]

So let's see. I have a very quick story. It's literally I was hoping for like more information. There's very little out there and most of the information is from a pamphlet, so.

[Christine]

Oh, hey, this has happened before and it was a pamphlet from like 1603. Is this the same situation?

[Em]

This one's from 1678.

[Christine]

No way. I was joking. But wow, okay, that's perfect. You know, they loved pamphlets back then though.

[Em]

Loved them. And I maybe that's. Obviously there's not a lot of information if it's from the 1600s. You just have to rely on the pamphlet. The pamphlet being still existing is kind of amazing.

[Christine]

I mean, that's what's kind of incredible about it. Yeah, I guess these pamphlets just go hard. They really stand the test of time.

[Em]

I'm shocked that you and I haven't, between the two of us, haven't started collecting old archaic haunted pamphlets.

[Christine]

I mean, we're literally collecting archaic menus that are probably tri folded like a pamphlet. So I feel like we're on the right track. Like we're only one step away. From slip sliding into collecting. I was gonna say vintage, but that would literally be ancient.

[Em]

We're not far. We're not far from splits. I'm sorry. In this exact moment, as I'm about to start the story, he's licking everything. And now he's on the table.

[Christine]

Oh, my God, he's so cute. Hey, Hank. Have you learned nothing about counter surfing and how it can hurt your little posy Wozies? Hi, Bugga.

[Em]

Can you sit? Please? Just sit.

[Christine]

It's a baby bug. Also, I got a notification last night. It was like. Like, your present has shipped. And then it was like, this deranged, like, text, and I was like, what the hell is that? And then I look closer, and I realized it was Gio's gift to Hank that I bought, like, weeks ago or whenever you first told me. And I feel like I was so confused because I was like, did I just spell everything wrong? And I was like, oh, no. I was writing, like, geo. Like, yeah. So you have a deranged present, or Hank has a deranged present coming your way. But I just. I bought it, like, weeks ago, so I don't know, it just shipped. But just a warning that's on the way, too.

[Em]

That's very nice. I will say. Christine already got us a whole bunch of nice things.

[Christine]

Well, I did get you. I got you a gift card for matching outfits, but I wanted you to actually experience. I wanted you to have an excuse to buy. It is really.

[Em]

It's a dream. It's a dream. Spark Paws. If you want to sponsor us, I.

[Christine]

Know that would be great because we could both use that, which is very fun.

[Em]

Now both use it. And now I've got something from geo. So now if it's written like a baby was in the room, just creepy, creepy baby and. Or serial killer ransom letters glued onto a piece of paper.

[Christine]

Correct.

[Em]

Okay, so this is the story. Well, actually, should I. I'm gonna get him his toy I've been hiding because.

[Christine]

I think it'll kill the emergency toy.

[Em]

The emergency toy. It's a one of those toys. You have to, like, fill it with, like, a big cookie treat or whatever. Oh, yeah, I haven't let him have it in the.

[Christine]

Is it a Kong?

[Em]

I think it's something like that. Yeah. But it's like you have to, like, shove this big ass, thick cookie. It takes him, like, two days to eat it, so that's impressive. Yeah.

[Christine]

For Hank.

[Em]

I'll send you the link if you want it. Okay.

[Christine]

Yeah, that'll be great, because I do need more like kind of distractions for Gigi because he just eats everything so fast.

[Em]

Oh, widdle GGs. Okay, this is the story of the mowing devil.

[Christine]

Okay. Okay. I have to assume mowing meant something different in the 1600s than like, mowing the lawn.

[Em]

Nope. So although mower used to be a person, not a machine. Like a mower.

[Christine]

Fair. Okay, understood. Yeah.

[Em]

So it's just one of those things where it's like it always existed. It was just not industrial.

[Christine]

It just. Yeah, okay. Oh, interesting.

[Em]

So this is in the 17th century, 1600s, Herefordshire, England. And there was this pamphlet that came out that summer with a story called the Mowing Devil or Strange News out of Hertfordshire. Ooh. And the pamphlet looks like a news article, like a piece of like a newspaper, like, reporting the news of the day. So that maybe probably helped it stick in people's minds. So, like, this news article about the fucking devil.

[Christine]

The media literacy was about as good as it is now, I imagine. Not much better.

[Em]

I guess so, because in the 17th century, didn't, like, only, like, five people read, like, true.

[Christine]

So honestly, they probably had better media literacy than we do.

[Em]

Maybe. It's certainly at least equal.

[Christine]

At least equal.

[Em]

And it was also. It was a pamphlet that had a picture. I'm going to send you actually the picture so that you can see it. Tell me. I. Yes. Okay. So you.

[Christine]

Where do you think these things are now? Do you think? Are they in museums, libraries?

[Em]

You shut your pretty little mouth. Don't worry about it.

[Christine]

I can't. I can't.

[Em]

I don't know how it's. It's gonna. I can't find Geostrio right now. I'm just gonna send it to you and then we'll send it to Geostrio later.

[Christine]

No problemo.

[Em]

Okay, so this is the exact pamphlet. Half of it is a picture and the other half is just a paragraph.

[Christine]

Oh, whoa. Okay. And by picture, it's like, obviously not a photograph.

[Em]

It's like an illustration.

[Christine]

Illustrate, like an etching. It almost looks like this is in the sneakiest thing I've ever seen.

[Em]

In fact, it is a wood cut illustration. So it's essentially a stamp made out of a block of wood. So you would carve into the wood.

[Christine]

Those are coming back now. There are several, like, artists, and I know LA definitely, but several local artists in Cincinnati that do linocut. Or Celine, my friend Celine does. And wood cut and line of cut drawings. I did them in high school a little bit. It's a really cool. Have you done that? Where you take the rubber mat and you like. Like, you kind of gouge, like, holes and it's. And then you ink it and then you print it.

[Em]

Well, everyone, look out on Etsy. Someone's gonna recreate this for sure.

[Christine]

Honestly, that's a great idea. Yeah, that's a good idea. If they haven't. Celine, do you want to draw this? I feel like it fits her vibe. It's kind of this, like, creepy, demonic vibe. I feel like it. No offense, Celine, but I feel like it really does.

[Em]

So for those who can't see it or are not on Instagram and seeing it themselves, it is literally. It looks like a newspaper article. And half of it is a picture, which we will describe in a second. Here comes Hank with his toy.

[Christine]

That's the news article. Breaking.

[Em]

Breaking dog with toy. Breaking water is what, four strange news.

[Christine]

Out of Burbank Shire.

[Em]

So basically, there's this little paragraph. It is written in old 1600s. I'm not going to make you deal with that. I'm just going to tell you what it says. Basically, it's this news report of a farmer who had over three acres of oats that needed to be harvested. So he asked a mower to help him, and the mower said sure and asked for a specific wage. But I guess it was a wage that the farmer considered too high. In fact, so high that it made the farmer irrationally upset and offended that it was even asked of him. So the farmer said essentially, fuck you. Get out of my farm. You're not allowed here anymore. And the quote is, the devil shall mow it rather than you.

[Christine]

I see. So, like, when hell freezes over and it's like, surprise. Yeah. Okay.

[Em]

Yes. So that night, funny enough, the farmer's field and crops all of a sudden catch on fire.

[Christine]

Oh, no.

[Em]

Magically catch on fire. And the farmer, the next day, he, I'm sure, takes a deep sigh and walks out there preparing to, like, see none of his crops. And he's like, all right, let's check the damage. But when he got there, he found that the field was totally fine and the crops were perfectly mowed and harvested. And without any context here. By the devil himself. Must have been by the devil himself, certainly.

[Christine]

Yeah. Cause it's clearly some sort of wizardry.

[Em]

Yeah. So because this must have been the work of the devil, he didn't even touch or sell any of his harvest that year. So I guess the moral of the story is, like, the devil appeared because he was greedy, and now he's, like, so scared to touch anything. That devil touched.

[Christine]

I can't even profit on this. Devil grass. Devil's grass.

[Em]

He like the thing that you like a lot. Yes, the devil's lettuce.

[Christine]

Devil's lettuce. That's what it is. See, I don't even know how to say it.

[Em]

See, when you get hotlined, when you get your little devil and I have lettuce. Oh, wait a minute.

[Christine]

Wait a minute.

[Em]

Now. Hang on a damn second. Now.

[Christine]

Hold your horses.

[Em]

So basically, yeah, I think the moral is, like, you will financially suffer or become.

[Christine]

I didn't even know the story ended. And suddenly you were telling me the moral, and I was like, wait, what's the.

[Em]

It's a paragraph.

[Christine]

It's like, there's quite a tale, I guess. Big breaking news.

[Em]

It's like, the devil will do it instead of you. And then the devil appeared and they went, okay, well, I guess I can't.

[Christine]

So he didn't, like, get wages. That was his punishment. Because he didn't. He didn't. He didn't sell the haunted dress.

[Em]

The punish. He punished himself. He was like, well, I'm not going to touch this. If the devil touched it.

[Christine]

Like, nobody said that. Right? Like, you could have just sold it and been like, I don't know. Nothing's wrong with it.

[Em]

Like, can you. Can you imagine, first of all, that this man wanted. This other man wanted random money. The farmer was like, no. So then the devil does your work for free and perfectly, and then you don't touch it. Imagine how offended the devil is on.

[Christine]

A show at night. Yeah. With the fire and, like, a little trickery. I mean, come on.

[Em]

And I did it for zero dollars, babe. You are so welcome.

[Christine]

That's like the equivalent of Ty Pennington, you know, he just shows up. He's like, no. No one will let you build a house. Well, watch this. Now there are 16 tennis courts in your room because you said one time you like the color green.

[Em]

Ty Pennington or strange news out of Trading Spaces.

[Christine]

Yeah, listen, that show. What was it called?

[Em]

Trading Spaces.

[Christine]

No, the other one.

[Em]

Extreme Home Makeover.

[Christine]

Yeah, that one Extreme Home Makeover that had me with. By, by with it. How do you say it? In a chokehold. It had me in a chokehold. That show. I would watch it and go, wow, he's changing the world. And now I'm like, oh, my God. It was like. Like, can you imagine? Shark Room forever? Good luck with your taxes.

[Em]

We actually built an aquarium around you. And you might actually be terrified of fish.

[Christine]

We don't know how to get you out. But you'll figure it out. You're a smart guy.

[Em]

Oh, you like lions? Well, we put a lion in your house.

[Christine]

Yeah. This is your new bed. Yeah. It's a lion. Anyway. Sorry, that reminds me of this. It's like, let me show up and do it. And it's like, okay, Nobody asked for this.

[Em]

Yeah. Not a single person. But also, I would be pissed with the devil. And I was like, I worked really hard.

[Christine]

Yes.

[Em]

And you're not even going to use anything that. I worked all night long.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

I would almost be worried about the farmer. Like the, the. Do I or don't I? Because, like, do I touch things?

[Christine]

Which one's more offensive? Yeah.

[Em]

Or do I upset the devil and he's gonna get me like threefold later? Oh, talk about a conundrum.

[Christine]

I bet you there was a follow up to this eight years later or something that. That. That the. The field never grew crops again or something. You know, like he. Like that was his last. You know, I wonder if there was a follow up or not. But we probably.

[Em]

The follow up is happening in May 2025. Actually, it's right.

[Christine]

Oh, shit. Oh, my God. So finally breaking news out of Hertfordshire. We could all know the truth of what really happened.

[Em]

I couldn't tell you. And also, like, there's no information on where this was. What farm? It was like, it could be any farm.

[Christine]

I mean, also, like, if you just piss that other guy off, like, he probably set fire to your farm, like to your crops as a fuck you.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And maybe you dreamed that they all got engulfed in flames and they woke up and they were fine. I don't know.

[Em]

It's funny you mentioned that because that is literally one of the theories later.

[Christine]

Oh, okay. I didn't even know there were theories. Sorry. So jumping ahead.

[Em]

No, no, you're good. So the best part is that. Well, let's get to it in a second. Four months later, not an update like you just predicted, but the original publication is now being reproduced in another book. Basically, it's such a hit. Such a hit that they're like, we gotta reprint this baby.

[Christine]

Second print. Wow.

[Em]

Imagine if, like, there's a first edition signed by the devil. That'd be crazy.

[Christine]

I mean, I would pay big bucks for that kind of thing.

[Em]

Well, this is gonna be my favorite part of the story because, you know, very rarely do I get this opportunity. And it's always my favorite when I get to read the title of a book from old England where it's a.

[Christine]

Year long, 85 words long oh, my God. I love these. They never.

[Em]

So this is. This is the name of the book that republished the article later.

[Christine]

Great.

[Em]

Strange signs from heaven seen and heard in Cambridge, Suffolk and Norfolk in and upon the 21st day of May last passed in the afternoon 1646. I'm halfway done. Miraculous workers seen at Barnstable, Kirkham, Cornwall and Little Britain in London where unto his annex Several apparitions seen in the air at the Hagen Holland upon the 21st to 31st day. I may last past about one of the clock in the afternoon.

[Christine]

I can't be serious. This is insane.

[Em]

I will also send that to you because I want you to know that that's the real. Why would. Like that. How could I even just come up with that in my own head?

[Christine]

That was a whole novel. Yeah, that's. I. I want you. Okay.

[Em]

Christine, please. Hang on. Christine does this thing. This is the COVID This is like the COVID of the book. And it doesn't even show like a. Like an author yet or like.

[Christine]

I haven't even gotten to the author.

[Em]

He has 20 names for sure. Christine does this thing during ads. If you'll ever notice that whenever we have to do like a fast disclaimer. Oh, Christine loves doing the fast disclaimer. I would love for you to treat this like a disclaimer and try to read this as fast as you can.

[Christine]

I did take that THC gummy, so I apologize in advance. Also, I want to add M, you did a good job because this is also something we didn't note yet. It's in completely different fonts and sizes. Like every few words, it suddenly switches sizes and font and italicized or not. And it's a really wild situation. It feels like they were, like, pretending like it wasn't all the same title.

[Em]

But it is even just Signs from Heaven is two different fonts in four.

[Christine]

Different sizes and has a semicolon inexplicably at the end, so you know what's happening.

[Em]

And it's like that old English writing so all the S's look like F's, you know?

[Christine]

Yes. It's that weird FS thing. Oh, I can't stand it.

[Em]

Not fun.

[Christine]

Strange signs from heaven seen and heard in Cambridge, Suffolk and Norfolk in and upon the 21st day of May last passed in the afternoon 1646. Miraculous wonders seen at Barnstable, Kirkham, Cornwall and Little Britain in London where unto his annexed several apparitions seen in the air at the Hagen Holland upon the 21st through 31st day of May last past about 1 o' clock. Nope. Let me start over. They can't decide what words to use.

[Em]

Imagine you go to book club, and someone's like, what's your favorite book? And someone goes, oh, let me tell you.

[Christine]

Imagine someone says, what's your favorite pamphlet? And then I'm like, we just become best friends. Yes. Well, also, can I add that? Oh, my God. I don't even remember what I was gonna add because I got distracted by the font again. Oh, it's like they couldn't. It's in and upon the 21st day of May. Like, we don't know if it's in the day or on the day. Or could it be upon the day?

[Em]

As long as it's not after the day.

[Christine]

That is exactly right. Thank you.

[Em]

It's, like, insufferable. Like, no. How many people did that go through? And everyone went, yep, looks like a good title.

[Christine]

Yeah. Actually, we will type all of this out by hand and stamp it because it seems worth all of this space.

[Em]

I feel like this title is what my dad thinks DEI is, where they're like, we have to include every single goddamn thing in there or else someone's gonna get offended. You know what I mean?

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

It's like. It's like if we don't mention the miraculous wonder scene at Barnstable, Kirkham, Cornwall, Little Britain in London, right? It's all, we're canceled.

[Christine]

And if it's in or. And. Or unto. It's like there's no binary, you know? It's like the binary doesn't exist anymore. And it's. It's kind of in that way. It does make sense.

[Em]

This is the woke liberal left writing a pamphlet.

[Christine]

You know what? I was afraid this might happen someday.

[Em]

I had a feeling I was looking forward to it, so.

[Christine]

Oh, my gosh.

[Em]

Okay. Four months after the original pamphlet, it ends up in this goddamn book. And that. I feel like I just needed to mention that because obviously.

[Christine]

And then, by the way, the fucking story is shorter than the title of this book, by the way.

[Em]

That's a great point.

[Christine]

I mean, not quite maybe, but, like, pretty damn close.

[Em]

Well, to answer your other question, the. The original, like, wood carving that they used to stamp the picture on the pamphlet is now completely missing. Nobody knows whatever happened to it. It was the 1600s. They probably, like, used it for firewood or something.

[Christine]

I was gonna say they burned it. Yeah.

[Em]

Yeah, exactly. But there are three copies of this pamphlet left in existence.

[Christine]

Whoa. Only three copies?

[Em]

Two of them. Two of them are in the US and then one of them is in The British Library in London.

[Christine]

Okay, okay, I guessed library at some point.

[Em]

And in the reproduction, what's interesting is that I couldn't find information on this. I looked. I don't. If you have an answer, everyone, please let me know. But in the reproduction in that book with a long ass name, this. The pamphlet itself now has a longer story with more details in it. So I don't know if like, oh, there was a longer vers that no one ever found in the first copy.

[Christine]

We only know they have kind of had artistic license with it.

[Em]

Yes, like maybe it just got.

[Christine]

No, they were like, how could you tell a story in only two paragraphs when you could sell it in 25 paragraphs?

[Em]

You know, like, if the title is this long, the story has to be longer.

[Christine]

Like that. It just doesn't work any other way.

[Em]

So basically the. I'm not going to read the whole thing to you, but the, the, the bullet points of what makes the longer details in this version is that the farmer is rich and the mower is very poor.

[Christine]

Oh, that's fucked up. Okay.

[Em]

To a point where it's quoted in the story that the neighbor is, quote, desperate to sell the sweat of his brows and marrow of his bones. He's like, poor, poor, poor, really looking for work. The farmer goes to the mower, says, hey, my oats are ready for harvest if you want to be my mower. And that he tried to underpay him, but then the mower kind of pushes back and then they end up getting in this fight. They walk away from each other, but then the mower comes back and says, or has this thought to himself, like, if I say no now, then like, I'm not guaranteed other work from him in the future and I really need future money, so I'd rather take less money now, so I have work.

[Christine]

This is a lot of license that this person took to expand on the original story.

[Em]

Yes, 100%.

[Christine]

Like he's getting a whole narrative now, like a whole plot line for just the neighborhood.

[Em]

Well, he was probably also fucking confused when he read the first pamphlet. He was like, someone has to explain this.

[Christine]

True. Like, at least he didn't blame him for it, you know, I thought the neighbor was the one setting the fires.

[Em]

Yeah, well, so the farmer was already mad when they like, had their spat and walked away from each other. But when the mower comes back and says, okay, like, I am willing to work for the lesser pay, the farmer still says, I'd rather the devil do it because, like, you're not worth my Time now.

[Christine]

Okay. But I do like that they've added a little bit of more context to that because that feels like a much more believable conversation.

[Em]

I like. It's like one of those movies where they don't even try for a chemistry read.

[Christine]

Correct.

[Em]

But this time, like, there's some character arc here.

[Christine]

Yeah. I can relate in a way that I couldn't with the first line of Cut.

[Em]

Well, so this is the part I think you're gonna, like, really love, is that the next day, there's that fire, and the farmer goes out and his crops are perfectly harvested. One new quote, which I thought was interesting is with the exactness that would have taken above an average for any man in one night. It was just like, no man could have done this.

[Christine]

Oh, so it was impossible for the neighbor to do it.

[Em]

Must have been the devil.

[Christine]

Okay, see, that also helps me understand a little bit, because I was confused about that in the first one, which.

[Em]

Is interesting, too, because if I were this rich farmer who thought I did nothing wrong, I would have thought, it's not the devil. I'd be like, it's God being on my side and just doing my crops.

[Christine]

Exactly. Good point. Like, of course you'd think you're in the right, but. Well, the fires.

[Em]

Maybe the fires.

[Christine]

Maybe the fires were the clue.

[Em]

So the best part is I just like this line a lot. In it, it was saying, like, the devil must have done this, and all the crops were perfect and, like, in a way that no man could have done it. And the quote says, as if the devil had a mind to show his dexterity in the art of husbandry.

[Christine]

Okay, we've got a real author in the house here stretching their hand at this. This is very fun.

[Em]

I didn't know this. I think I'm the last person on earth. But fun fact, in case you are like me, I didn't know that husbandry was even a word or what it meant. And apparently it just means, like, the act of farming.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Em]

Which would make sense that when you get married, the husband's job is all the stuff outside and all the, you know, as.

[Christine]

Oh, my gosh. So you haven't heard of, like, when you can get a degree in husbandry?

[Em]

No, not at all.

[Christine]

Really? Yeah, that's.

[Em]

I originally agriculture or, like.

[Christine]

Yeah. I mean, they always have some weird word for it, you know, so it's.

[Em]

But then I looked up what's, like, wifery. Wifery. And that's just like having babies, of course.

[Christine]

Or like, midwifery is. Yeah, midwifery. That's interesting. Yeah, husbandry. So it's like. Yeah, okay. The caring of babies and animals, I guess.

[Em]

Yeah, yeah, it's animals and crops. So it's like, men do the outside work, you know?

[Christine]

Yeah, I guess so. I guess. I guess so. Wow, that's fascinating.

[Em]

This is the part I think you're gonna get a kick out of, is.

[Christine]

That I'm already, like, on it. I'm like, yeah, I did get a kick out of that, by the way.

[Em]

Is that in this long version that's in this longer reproduction. They met. They throw in this one line of. However, this is. Oh, he's doing his husbandry. He's showing off at how good he is. However, the devil cut the crops in round circles. So this was back in 17 or 1678.

[Christine]

Oh, and it's. My God, I have goose cam.

[Em]

So this. The original was in the 1600s. It's been republished in multiple folklore books and pamphlets. But especially in the 1990s, it had this, like, resurgence because people loved pamphlets and zines.

[Christine]

Also in the 90s. Just side note.

[Em]

And I mean, actually. Yeah. And also because part of it in the 1980s, when this pamphlet was, like, rediscovered. It was rediscovered by a bunch of UFO enthusiasts.

[Christine]

Yes.

[Em]

Who really focused in on the line, the devil cut the crops in round circles.

[Christine]

I mean, they. So, you know, they just went into, like, Library of Congress or whatever the UK equivalent is and typed in, like, crop circles. And then this thing comes up.

[Em]

It was just the oldest one that showed up.

[Christine]

Yeah, it's like the oldest, oldest thing in there. Yeah. That is. I mean. Mean, I don't know how I hadn't put that together yet at all, because, like, looking at it, it's literally the devil using flames to really quickly make crop circles. That's crazy.

[Em]

So since the 90s, because this. The pamphlet was rediscovered in. In the UFO community in the 80s. So, like, by the 90s, it was this big thing in the 90s. This pamphlet has now been used by many of the UFO circles to prove that extraterrestrial crop circles existed pre 1900s. Because, remember, the whole big craze happened in the 40s and 50s, of course.

[Christine]

And so it's, like, older than that. Wow.

[Em]

It's like they've been around for 300 years. That's. This is the evidence. It has now become known as the earliest piece of evidence for crop circles.

[Christine]

That's okay. Sorry. We try not to comment on this anymore because it's annoying and it happens all the time.

[Em]

But the balloons came up.

[Christine]

Balloons Just soared through the air, as M said that, which, like, made it all the better.

[Em]

That's what the UFO enthusiast would want, the celebration of it all.

[Christine]

Yeah, a big party.

[Em]

So it is obviously heavily speculated. It's unlikely for a few reasons. Mainly because the farmer found the crops cut and not, like, pressed down. Like how. Like crop. Like crop circles. All the crops are just bent.

[Christine]

Okay, but like, maybe in the back, then the word. Who knows? You know? That feels like a little flimsy argument. I. I'm.

[Em]

We've got Mufon in the house all of a sudden.

[Christine]

I'm so sorry. I'm gonna be on their side of this. Deb.

[Em]

That is totally fine. I get it. I expected that.

[Christine]

Yeah. Good, good.

[Em]

But also, in the pamphlet's picture, the devil is literally holding a scythe, cutting things.

[Christine]

See, you're right.

[Em]

So he is cutting them and not literally cutting it. Although, if it's the very first crop circle or whatever, then, like, maybe he also didn't know how to make a crop circle yet.

[Christine]

He wasn't realized. Maybe that was a lot harder. Right. Because, like, you know now.

[Em]

Although imagine if you're all powerful. I guess the devil could just snap his fingers.

[Christine]

Maybe he feels like it's. Has more of an. Maybe he was like, I don't want it. I don't want to be part of any of these petty human arguments anymore. Like, I'm. I'm gonna start flattening the crops. Because then it's like, who did that? It's not the neighbor. It's not. It must be. I don't know, someone from outer space.

[Em]

I feel like technically, God and the devil are from outer space.

[Christine]

That's right.

[Em]

So maybe they're not earthly beings.

[Christine]

That's kind of maybe the moral of this whole story that we're telling.

[Em]

I agree. I think God is an alien. There was. There was. At the dog park yesterday. There was some dog who, like, looked fucking wild. Like, there's. You know, sometimes you see a dog and you're like, what breed could that be?

[Christine]

Oh, I see. Yeah.

[Em]

And you could hear the little kids who obviously didn't come with that dog. They were talking to the dog's owner, and they're. I guess the dog's name was Wiz, and they were like, wiz looks like an alien. Wiz is an alien. Wiz is an alien. And I was like, at some point, it would hurt my feelings, but Wiz did really look like an alien.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. And I bet with Lilo and Stitch being out now, like, yeah, it's like the dog version, which is kind of awesome, actually, if you think about it.

[Em]

Anyway, so Wizard, Jesus, the devil, Superman and ET Are all aliens, and Stitch and Stitch see everyone but us. How boring.

[Christine]

Boring.

[Em]

Another reason that it's probably not UFO crop circles is because the text never mentions the crops being in, like, a concentric classic crop circle pattern. The image does look like that. Like, if you look at the picture of the devil with a sight. I drew it for you people, you could assume. And also, although the later on story does say, like, a circular pattern or whatever, the original text never said that.

[Christine]

It doesn't say that. That's true.

[Em]

So we're going off of, like, the embellishment of somebody else later.

[Christine]

That's true. But they were looking at the picture maybe, and they were like. Well, it's not really.

[Em]

But also, like the picture itself. Yeah, I guess it kind of looks like crop circles, but it also looks a lot like flames, which would make so much more sense with the devil.

[Christine]

Well, I thought it was flames around the crops. And these are all the, like, wheat stalks or oat or whatever. And he's like, flame. The flames around it are gonna magically cut it. I guess.

[Em]

Trust me, there is no logic anymore. Whatever you're saying makes perfect sense.

[Christine]

I think so. Because look at the flames in the middle. See, there's like, definitely a lot of flames in there.

[Em]

There's. Yeah, I mean, it actually looks like flames around crop circles, so it doesn't really.

[Christine]

I think that's what it is. I think he's using the flames to like. Like, block him. Remember? Because the farmer woke up and looked out the window and said, like, he just saw fire, so he assumed all his crops would be consumed. Maybe it's just a barrier so you don't see what's going on inside it. Think about it. They come, they put like, some sort of.

[Em]

Yeah, no, you're right.

[Christine]

So they can't see, I don't know.

[Em]

Some sort of, like, screener over your face.

[Christine]

Like a. Yeah, screener. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Em]

Well, another reason that they think it probably isn't UFO related is because this was written in the 17th century, where most unexplained events were explained with God and the Devil versus, like, an alien. I guess in the longer version of the pamphlet, the story literally opens up. I didn't mention this because I wanted this to be, like, a point later, is that in the longer version, the first part of the story is them just talking about how God and the Devil must be real. So like, literally the first sentence I think is, if devils exist, then there must be a hell in which they live. If there is a hell, there must be a heaven, hence there must be a God. I don't do the philosophy mental shtick here. Sure, whatever.

[Christine]

Whatever.

[Em]

But basically they're saying, well, if it's the devil, it can't be aliens. Although no one is arguing that. I know of what we're arguing that the devil is an alien. Like, maybe it's both.

[Christine]

Yeah. And I. I feel like, what do you mean? It's the. Okay. That annoys me because it's like, well, yeah, a lot of things were explained as the devil. Like illness, germs. Like, a lot of things were explained as the devil. Sure. Because that was their understanding. But that doesn't mean, like, they couldn't have seen something really crazy happening or like something like a crop circle and go, that must be the devil. I don't know how else to explain it. Like, they're not talking about aliens. They don't even know that they're not in the center of the universe.

[Em]

I think you're actually convincing me. Wait a minute.

[Christine]

I'm, like, so mad about that. I'm like, what are these people that.

[Em]

Said they're just hiding behind the devil? It's like the alien could be the explanation.

[Christine]

Maybe everything was the devil, you know, they said like, oh, you got a paper cut. Devil, you know?

[Em]

Oh, oh, you're a woman with an opinion.

[Christine]

Devil. Double devil. Oh, I found my shoe that it was missing. God is here. You know, whatever. Like, maybe it's a ghost. Maybe it's a. An alien. Maybe it's germs.

[Em]

Yeah. So maybe you're right. Maybe it is an alien. Shit, I don't fucking know anymore. I'm convinced, but a lot. Let's say the skep. Fucking relax. Do you hear that cough? That was disgusting.

[Christine]

I did. Is that what that was? I. It sounded like a vomit. Vomitus.

[Em]

He. He's chowing down on a dry treat. I think he just cut himself.

[Christine]

Need a little. A little hydration, little wawa.

[Em]

We're teaching him water so he knows to go drink.

[Christine]

Oh, that's nice.

[Em]

Because we'll go on a long walk. He's panting and I'm like, all right, why don't you know about water?

[Christine]

Oh, my God. Gio literally knows how to tell me water. Because he's such a baby. And, like, if. If the door is even slightly closed and he can't fit and he wants to drink water, he just goes. And I'm like, okay. It's like, really annoying.

[Em]

It's actually amazing.

[Christine]

He had to teach me water in his language.

[Em]

I see. I'm also trying to teach him, like, the bells on the door to let us know he wants to go outside.

[Christine]

Hey, that's so cute.

[Em]

He already paused at the door when he wants to go outside, so I know when, but if I'm like, in the other room, I can't hear it, you know?

[Christine]

That's so smart. Okay, wait. You need to teach me all. Write me a pamphlet so I can teach Gia these things.

[Em]

I just got tired of having to guess. Although he's getting. He just learned pee pee if you want to go. He knows that means, like, we're just going to go in the yard for a second and we're not going on a big walk. It's just to go, so.

[Christine]

Oh. So he knows it's not like a huge. Yeah, yeah.

[Em]

And he puts his own. He has like one of those glowing collars at night because he's a black dog in the dark. He puts it on himself when he's ready for his nighttime walk. It's very precious.

[Christine]

You need to tick tock this for me, please.

[Em]

He. He just goes. He like, does this and like, shimmies it onto his neck and he's like, I'm ready. Let's fucking do this.

[Christine]

Amazing. That's amazing. That's like some bunny the dog level shit.

[Em]

He's. He's a smart boy until he's a dumb boy. Anyway, just to close out, a lot of most people think that this isn't a real UFO situation. They think it's just like a religious cautionary tale about God punishing someone for greed. Another thought is that it could be a think piece on, like, the power dynamics between the rich and the poor at the time. So then it's just not a religious cautionary tale, but just a general cautionary tale about properly paying people and being nice to people or else like, the town will come and burn your crops to the ground. Yeah.

[Christine]

I mean, yeah, It's a pretty clear moral when you look at it. Kind of straight on.

[Em]

Yeah. So in conclusion, it's likely that it's not about crop circles and it's just more an editorial, a think piece from this, the 17th century.

[Christine]

Disagree.

[Em]

Hard disagree as well. Anyway, that is the pamphlet of the mowing devil.

[Christine]

I feel like if someone said, this is crazy, you guys. Like, the devil came down and like, like burn someone's crops into a weird shape. Like, hey, yeah, that's probably a Crop circle, whatever.

[Em]

I. I guess you're right. They didn't know what a crop circle was yet, so they wouldn't have been able to.

[Christine]

Like. I meant to comment on this when you said earlier, too, that they said. Oh, it wasn't mentioning classic concentric patterns. I'm like, how would they know a classic concentric pattern of a crop circle? How are they supposed to know?

[Em]

Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point.

[Christine]

So I think the devil comes down here for. For vacation.

[Em]

I guess it would be so easy if the entire town and like a. It's probably a rural area if they're farming. It's the 17th century. Half them can't read. They're all religious. I feel like all it takes is one person going, oh, the devil did this. And everyone goes, what?

[Christine]

Of course, and it's yours. And they know he's an asshole. So they're like, the devil came because you're an asshole. And it's like.

[Em]

Or the entire. Like you said, the entire town maybe got together and burned it down. And then they went, no, no, no, that was the devil. Don't look at us.

[Christine]

That's literally the devil. Don't worry.

[Em]

Yeah, I think, you know, Christine, you, I don't know, rocked my world there, actually. So that's what I'm here for. Anyway, hope you liked it. And now for your story, when you're ready, I'm going to crack open my. My sp.

[Christine]

Oh, please do. Go. Go ahead. Let's crack into it.

[Em]

I want to hear your title first.

[Christine]

Oh, okay. We're gonna do the story. It's actually two, unfortunately. Allison Jackson Foy. And then the ending bit is Angela Noble's Rothen.

[Em]

Wait, it's two people?

[Christine]

Yes, well, it's sort of how their. Their stories kind of intertwine.

[Em]

I'm sorry, I.

[Christine]

He's like, I'm trying to learn. What does this trick mean?

[Em]

It means get away. And look, by the way, there's his pink eye. Can you see his pink eye?

[Christine]

Oh, poor baby.

[Em]

Oh, he's such a. Come here.

[Christine]

The video patron or the video. The non video watchers are gonna be like, oh, man, I'm missing out on puppy pink eye.

[Em]

It's disgusting. You don't need to see it, Hank. I'm not kidding. Let's your toys over there.

[Christine]

So it can be hard to figure out how to be a grown up and not just eat, you know, Leona's leftover Mac and cheese all day, which is typically what I do. But that's what's so great about Fay Nutrition. They connect you directly with registered dietitians who are actual real life food and nutrition exper experts. Not an app. You know, nothing like that. It's actual personalized nutrition counseling. I just had my first session and I loved her. She was the best. She's helping me figure out how to, like, exercise, but not make it feel like exercise. You know, like just moving my body. Like I told her. I was like, don't say the word exercise. I will get really upset.

[Em]

Well, this podcast is sponsored by Faye. Faye matches you one on one with a dedicated dietitian who will help you understand your body's unique needs.

[Christine]

So whether you're trying to lose weight, if you're dealing with low energy, you have digestive diseases, discomfort, you're managing conditions like pcos, diabetes, navigating food allergies, or you just want clarity amidst all the confusing diet noise, getting personalized guidance could be the foundational support you need.

[Em]

At fay, they believe expert nutrition counseling should be accessible to everyone. It's so simple to find a dietitian who finds your needs and to instantly check your insurance coverage before signing up.

[Christine]

Having a personalized nutritionist used to cost big bucks. It's something I never thought I would be able to do, but not anymore. With fay. Listeners of. And that's why we drink can qualify to see a registered dietitian for as little as $0 by visiting faynutrition.com/drink, that's.

[Em]

Fainutrition.Com backslash drink one last time. That's fay nutrition.com drink and make sure you use the URL so they know that we sent you. Okay, count me down.

[Christine]

All right, let's crack into it. 3, 2, 1. Very pretty, very pretty. That was a good one.

[Em]

Thank you.

[Christine]

Okay, we're cracking into this case, folks. Today I have. Well, first, I want to give a little bit of context here, because as you know, if you're listening through in order, we've had two live episodes recently, which we have not done that in a long time. And I apologize, especially because May was, you know, I was taught I was going to spend more time talking about, um, indigenous cases and missing and murdered and indigenous people month. And I didn't get to really do that. I did one story and then, you know. But I will say we have several coming up. So I wanted to point that out before people think I just kind of moved on. It was an unfortunate timing, basically, but I have a couple coming up.

[Em]

What I was gonna say, are we doing one today or in the.

[Christine]

We're not doing one today. This was going to be. Well, well, anyway, it doesn't matter, but essentially we're working on Navi. How do you say that? Nevaeh. We're working on Nevaeh King Bird, who's been missing since October 2021, and Ashley Loring, heavy runner. And apparently that was. So that was a case we were gonna do this week, but there was so much more information on it, and it was such a bigger case than most of the MMIP stories because she actually was. Was an advocate for mmiw, and she actually worked on finding and trying to help find and tell stories, share store the stories of missing and murdered indigenous women, and then became a missing indigenous woman. Right. So there's like a lot of race. I know it's doubly horrible, but it means there's actually a lot more information, whereas a lot of these other cases just don't have that much. Anyway, I wanted to say that too, because a couple people, I think they're just trolling me, but they're like, oh, your stories are so, so short and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I mean, that the, The. The one I did a couple weeks ago. Yeah. You know, there are. There aren't many articles about the murders of these young women, so, you know, sometimes they're short, and I can't help it. The story is as long as the story is right, and the story is as long as the reporting is. And sometimes we can't, you know, banter about some of these, so they feel short, and I apologize for that.

[Em]

But, yeah, certainly the, the. Not that it's easier to banter through some of them, but sometimes it's easier to banter through some of them. It is.

[Christine]

Yeah. Sometimes we get in. So I get into the dark stuff way quicker. Sometimes I bring up talking points that are, you know, so I don't want.

[Em]

To be able to. Sometimes it's a sillier crime and like, this is not very silly.

[Christine]

No, exactly. And. And sometimes the history of it can be funny or fun, but, like, like, yeah, that's not the case here. And you know, some stories, I guess, are just shorter, but it wasn't intentional, if that. If anybody was wondering that. I know people were like, oh, maybe she's shortening her stories. I'm not doing that on purpose. So the next three and a half hour episode, you'll know that's true. I hope that's not today, but, you know, just saying Hank hopes it's not.

[Em]

Today, but whatever, I don't care.

[Christine]

Yeah, I know. Yeah.

[Em]

Can I ask real quick what your time code is? I just want to make sure I didn't, like, mess up my garage bin just now.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah, sure. 1:11.

[Em]

Okay, cool. It had, like, a pop up and I didn't know one.

[Christine]

One. One.

[Em]

It. Yes, one, one, one. Okay, perfect.

[Christine]

Yeah, no worries. Okay. So all that to say there are more stories of MMIW coming up, and I apologize for the delay on those. It's just been really wild times. So let's get into this story today. This is the story of Alison Jackson Foy. And then at the end, I'll be covering just a brief segment on Angela Noble's Rothen, and you'll see kind of how they're linked as we. As we go through the story. So we're going to begin with Allison Jackson Foy. She was born Allison Mazaluski in March of 1972. She grew up on Long Island, New York, as the youngest of four children. And she was very close with her siblings and her dad growing up up on Long Island. From an early age, she excelled as a student at her father's dance studio. He had a dance studio? Imagine, it's the 70s. See, this is where I come in with some banter. It's the 70s. What would you name your dance studio? Like, kids, mostly kids.

[Em]

Well, if it's the seventies, I don't know. My first thought was something disco. But if I'm shooting for kids, then maybe it's like a. A. Like a rock and roll kind of thing.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah, the.

[Em]

The. The.

[Christine]

I didn't give you much time, and I apologize because this is a big question with a lot of nuance.

[Em]

There would be a pun, I'll tell you that immediately.

[Christine]

It would have to be right, like the.

[Em]

The. Is it disco? Does it matter?

[Christine]

It's not disco. It's called let's Make Music and Dance.

[Em]

Okay, I see.

[Christine]

M's not a fan.

[Em]

I'm not, but I see where it came from. Isn't that like. Like a lyric?

[Christine]

Is it?

[Em]

Oh, no, no, no. I was thinking let's Dance. Let's Dance. That song.

[Christine]

No, I'm sure that was also a studio back then, but this one's called let's Make Music and Dance, which feels like.

[Em]

Is weird.

[Christine]

No, I agree. I don't find it to be the most catchy name. I would have named someone about glitter or something. I don't know. I would have found something kids like, with a Z. I don't know. I would have come up with something.

[Em]

It was Specifically a kids dance hall.

[Christine]

Yes. Because by the time she got older, she was teaching the kids herself, and they did gymnastics, I think, there as well. It's kind of like a. So does that open up more possibilities?

[Em]

Perhaps it does. It does. Maybe we'll discuss in a yappy hour.

[Christine]

Oh, wait, that's a great idea. Okay. We'll come up with our own 1970s dance hall and gymnasium name.

[Em]

Sure. Okay, great.

[Christine]

That's the catchiest yappy hour we'll do yet. Okay. So anyway, her students adored her. So did their parents. And she was just a well loved person, as they, of course, always are. Courtney, Allison's eldest daughter from her first marriage, also lived with her mother, her youngest sister, and her stepdad, Mike. So those who knew her said that she was dedicated to her children and her family above all else. So when Mike was struggling to find work locally in 2005, he asked her to move the family to Wilmington, North Carolina. Okay. And she agreed. She said, all right. Like, if that's what's best for the kids and for our family, then let's do that. However, it was really hard because she was very close to her siblings. But on top of that, the move, which she was hoping would make things easier and better for them, did not. It didn't go well. So things just got worse between the two of them. It was very tumultuous. They argued so often that Courtney actually became so distressed. She moved out to live with her father, and that would be Allison's ex husband. And that really devastated her. It was like a humongous blow to her. And she knew at this point, like, this is kind of make or break. I need to get my together.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And turn things around. So In June of 2006, she reached out to her sister Lisa and said, I need sister time. I feel like that is the best. Like, literally the moment you're like, like, okay, I've reached a breaking point. Sister time.

[Em]

Like, question, though, this out question for you. What it. What is your. And this is me trying to also do banter before it gets too dark. What is your reasoning for sister time versus your. Your reasoning for brother or sibling time? Because you could have sister time, but there's such an age gap that I feel like, does that get in the way? And would you hang out with Zandy instead of.

[Christine]

Yes. I consider. I feel like I'd be like, for. For big, big picture things, like turning my life around. I mean, I would probably have my sister take me to the Boba tea place and then get my Nails done. But I think beyond that. And she could be a sounding board, but I think when it comes to very serious. Yeah. When it's like, bigger stuff, that's more, you know, not Gen Z and not. Not something I need to burden her with. Then, yeah, I would go to my brother, but then I would. I basically, I'm just like, oh, he's sort of like a sister in that way. You know, I'm like, he's just. He's much more sensitive and whatever than I feel like most.

[Em]

I don't know, guys.

[Christine]

Are most guys. Most brothers. I guess so.

[Em]

Well, sidebar. I meant to tell you earlier that someone at the dog park, I like, said the beach to Sandy name beach of sandy. Water too wet. And I explained why it's called that. That I've never heard a, Like a jolly Santa Claus belly roll laugh. I've never. Someone thought it was the funniest thing they've heard all year long. They're like, what's that. What's the podcast called? And I described. I mean, I've never.

[Christine]

I was like, oh, my gosh. I've never seen anyone react excitedly like that. So that's awesome.

[Em]

I was like, nothing I've said in all of our conversations ever has made you laugh. The way that. That made you laugh. That was crazy. Wow.

[Christine]

Well, they're gonna be sorely disappointed by the podcast when they hear that it's not just us saying that joke, you know.

[Em]

I want you to know that nothing you say is probably funnier to them.

[Christine]

He's never gonna get the title. Yeah. I've already peaked with this person.

[Em]

Anyway, I went to. Well, I'll let you know if I.

[Christine]

Get an email saying, you know, I met. I've heard about you at the dog park, then I'll know.

[Em]

Yeah, It's a guaranteed new listener. I'll tell you.

[Christine]

Oh, hooray. Okay. I love when it translates to actually listening. That's. Maybe they'll write. Maybe.

[Em]

Anyway, sorry. So sorry. So sorry.

[Christine]

No, good. Good questions. Yeah, I don't really. Yeah. I don't know. Sister time, I feel like, is not something that I experience in the traditional sense, but I kind of get. I get it, you know, Like, I get why you would need sister time in this moment.

[Em]

Maybe in a few more years, maybe, like when she's in her 30s.

[Christine]

I do think so, because she. Well, I'm not gonna put her on blast like that, but she went through some stuff recently that. That everyone kind of goes through, but it's like, just relationship stuff and and things where it's, like, bumpy. And I think we got a lot closer after that because it was like, oh, you know, we have this shared understanding, and, you know, I don't know. And I got to go. I did get to do sister time because I went over there with, like, all I had to go over there, and it was the whole thing. But anyway, yeah, we got sister time. Then we brought. I brought her basically the equivalent of boba and getting her nails done.

[Em]

Nice.

[Christine]

You know, the opposite. So, yeah, so I guess I do sometimes have sister time. That's nice. All right, where am I? So she goes, let's go to Wilmington. Maybe things will get better and easier. But, no, things get so tumultuous that her daughter moves in with her dad, which is Allison's ex. And this is, like, really, really hard. This is when she decides to turn things around, goes for sister time. And her sister Lisa actually rented her a car. And Allison drove to Lisa's with her youngest daughter, Jordan. So there, she told Lisa everything that was going on. She said her marriage was falling apart, her life was just not where she wanted it to be. And she told Lisa that she and Mike were struggling financially, apparently, which, by the way, at this point, Lisa didn't know this yet, and Allison didn't tell her, but she would find out later that at this point already, Allison had been suspected of stealing from multiple previous employers. And her sister explains later, like, yeah, she was trying. Like, she was so broke, she was trying to feed her family. So, you know, you can see how that, like she said, I basically can understand how that happened, you know.

[Em]

Yeah, it's the literal, classic moral question, like, yeah, exactly. Do I steal the feed of my family? Yeah.

[Christine]

Have I watched Les Mis? Certainly not. Do I know what it's about? Not really, but I think it's that. So, you know, that's my guess.

[Em]

Sure, today it is. Yes, today it is.

[Christine]

So the Foys were in a very tight situation, and moving didn't help. I'm sure it only added strain. And now her daughter left the house, so she's just really feeling it. And she's telling her sister all this, and she says, you know, I've considered divorcing Mike, but she just feels really strongly about keeping the family together because her parents got divorced when she was 2, and apparently it just caused a lot of turbulence, and she got the brunt of it as the youngest. And her sister basically said, like, she was so scared to repeat something like that to her own kids, but clearly, you know, things Weren't working out. So it's almost like, well, the current plan's not working any better, Right?

[Em]

We're gonna have to do it. Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah, we're gonna have to do it. So her whole family was behind her. And her sister said, it is time for you to stand up for yourself. You know, make some changes that you need to do. You know what that is. Whatever it is for you to change how things are going, go do it. So Allison said, you're right. I'm going to take control of my life. She went back to Wilmington in that rental car she was ready to figure out. And within two weeks, she had a job as the assistant manager at a local Holiday Inn. Hey, girl, I know. And she calls her sister, and her sister says she has never heard her so happy. Like, she was just. Just overjoyed that she was able to get something stable and, you know, manager position, or, I guess, assistant manager position. It was just like such a 180, and she was already so optimistic about the future. And first thing, of course, she wanted to stabilize her finances before getting her daughter back and. And all that stuff. Her sister was just so thrilled and relieved that sister time had worked, I guess. And I know on Saturday, July 29, which was about four days into starting her new job at the hotel, Allison went out to celebrate with her best friend in Wilmington. His name is Chris Williams. So Chris was described by people as Allison's sounding board. Basically, he was like the friend she could talk to about anything. I guess, sister time, in its own way. Like we were saying, this guy was just like, you know, a BFF character that. That she was really close with, and they. And they shared a lot with each other. So they were at the bar, and after a night of wine and celebration at this place called Junction Pub and Billiards, Chris and Allison agreed that she had drunk a little too much to drive herself home. So Chris told the bartender to call a taxi, and they sat down and talked for a bit. Shortly afterward, a man walked in and said, hey, I'm here for whoever called the taxi. So Allison says good night to Chris and leaves with the taxi driver. And Chris leaves about 20 minutes later by himself. On Sunday morning, Allison's husband, Mike, awoke to find that Allison hadn't come home. But because they were fighting so much and their daughter had moved out, and, you know, he basically just thought she was out with a friend and was pissed at him and just didn't tell him that she was still out.

[Em]

And in hindsight, yikes.

[Christine]

Yeah, it's not good in hindsight. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Mike didn't reach out for a while, and he just assumed, like, things were fine. So it wasn't until Monday, two days later, that he finally called the police and said, hey, my wife hasn't come home this weekend, and it's not. Not like her. Now, one weird thing, which I can kind of see both sides, is that Mike didn't call Allison's family. And this was really hurtful to them because obviously a point of contention because the family's like, why the hell wouldn't you call us instead? Allison's dad, John, had to find out from of. On a voicemail left by the police. And it's like, oh, my God. You know, if a family member could have told him, that would have maybe been an easier way. Not that. Anyways, easier to find out, but it was just odd.

[Em]

I've. I've thought about this before. I'm like, if something were to happen to Allison and I. I've thought about this too, and honestly, I actually have had the thought of, like, I think I would put off telling her parents for as long as possible because, like, I wouldn't know how to.

[Christine]

And I don't. And you know when you watch a show and they're like, I have. Thankfully, I've not been in this position, but when they're. They're. They have to share bad news, and they're like, do you want me to say it? And they're like, no, I have to be the one to do it. I'm like, yeah, I don't know. If I. Not me, I'd be too chicken shit for that.

[Em]

Me too. I think I would be. I mean, I think if I had to, I would. But I would certainly hope someone else would volunteer.

[Christine]

I. I think if someone volunteer, like, in. In every show, they're like, no, I'll do it. And it's like, why? They just offered to do it.

[Em]

I'm not that good. I'm not that good of a person. I would like to be, but I can.

[Christine]

But I'm like, maybe there's something in that moment where you're in adrenaline. You know what I mean? Like, maybe there's something that kicks in. I have no idea, but I feel like I'd be a chicken shit about it.

[Em]

I know that I would only do it because I know if something happened to Allison, she would be in. Like, if I had to think about it, she would have been really mad at me if I didn't tell her parents right away. But I know that I would be wanting to hold that off for as long.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's, like, a scary situation to be in. Well, and, you know, I think about it with. With this guy, too, that he was the one who didn't call the police for two days. Like, that's not gonna look very good. And, no, it's not gonna really piss her family off that now, this isn't a delay of two whole days of a missing person's case. So, like, I imagine he was like, oh. Like, I don't know what. And I'm not saying like, oh, this is the right thing to do. I'm just saying, you know, some people say it points to guilt, and I'm sort of like, well, it also kind of points to somewhat estranged husband of the family that, like, kind of up and doesn't want to make that phone call. You know, I think that's how I see it. But, you know, some people, of course, found it a bit suspicious.

[Em]

I can see both sides for sure. That.

[Christine]

I agree. I agree. So here we are. Allison's father, John, finds out his daughter's missing from a voicemail left by the police, and he had to call Allison's siblings to tell them what was going on. Of course, they were shocked that Mike hadn't called them. And, you know, it wasn't even that she had died. It was just that. Not just, but it was that she was missing. So they were like, well, you could have told us, and we could have, like, help. Tried to help, you know, which I do also feel like is a point. Like, if they should have been notified right away, if it was something like that they could contribute to, you know.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And because it was a disappearance, then, like, you know, they probably would want to know right away. So I see their side for sure. They all convened in Wilmington, where they learned that investigators suspected Allison had left town of her own accord. And they're like, I don't know about that. But the car Lisa had rented for Allison, which Allison had continued to use when she got to Wilmington, was parked at the bar where she left it. So they were like, well, she obviously didn't skip town because there's the car she was driving. Investigators were able to read Allison's diary, which her manager found at work. I guess she could. At work, maybe to hide from the husband. I'm not sure I would. Speculation, but, you know, that's what I would think. I. Or just maybe that's. If you're doing, like, overnights, maybe you just want to write in your journal at night. I Can also see that.

[Em]

I also think, like, it's trying to get away from your husband like, that. I would. You're brave to even have a diary at that point. Like, just.

[Christine]

I agree. Because, I mean, in there, you know, the. She talked about all their arguments and what she was trying to. To, you know, plan for the future. So, yeah, I imagine that was pretty. Pretty personal. And when her boss found it, you know, the police, of course, took a look at it. She wrote about her arguments with Mike, financial problems, potential drug use, which her sister confirmed, at least of her own knowledge. Prescription pill from Sister Time.

[Em]

You know.

[Christine]

From Sister Time, Right.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And as the police learned about these struggles and the accusations against her by former employers, because, remember, her sister didn't know yet, but two previous employers were apparently accusing her of stealing money in the past, and they basically put two and two together and said, oh, she must have essentially run away. Like, she must have fled to escape the stress and the legal issues. And, like, on paper, maybe that makes some sense. But, of course, inevitably, her family comes in and goes, absolutely not. It's impossible. She would not leave her daughters behind. That's all she cared about.

[Em]

And her whole plan was working towards getting her kids back.

[Christine]

Exactly. And even if she decided to leave for a while or skip town, she would have told somebody in the family, like, there was just simply no way. She would just vanish without telling one of them that she was okay. And, you know, she just wouldn't do that to her kids. And it was also like, she had just turned things around. Right? Like, she had just gotten this job, and she was so excited, and she was happier than ever. So it also didn't fit with how things were going. So Allison's family said, that's not what happened, and we don't believe it. And they took posters, they went out canvassing for information on the streets of Wilmington. They did everything they could to spread the word. They actually traveled to New York City and stood in the crowd of the Today show, and they had T shirts. And they actually asked people around them, like, hey, would you be willing to wear this T shirt on air? You know, in the crowd? And so they got to the front and they had posters, and they. They basically gave the website, you know, find. Find it help find allison.com or whatever it was. And, yeah, they got, like, a couple seconds of air time, so they were able to spread awareness that way, which was really cool. And through all this, they're, of course, trying to find. Find her themselves. And so they repeatedly try to call Allison Only to discover one day that Mike has canceled her phone line. Almost as soon as he reported her missing, he put in the request to cancel her phone line.

[Em]

That's weird.

[Christine]

It's weird. Definitely weird.

[Em]

I'm trying to be. I'm trying to also play, like the. I know the other side where I'm like, some people, the way that they grieve is they just go right into, like, tasks of like. Okay, right. So maybe that's what's. Well.

[Christine]

And also they were in a really tight financial situation, and she was only four days into her job, so I don't know, like, what the payment situation was, but he did say he did it because he didn't want to. I mean, okay, he said he did it to save money on the phone bill, but it's like, well, if your wife is like. But maybe he really believed she skipped town. I have no clue. Like, I don't know.

[Em]

But it doesn't. It doesn't look good.

[Christine]

No, it does not look good. Especially if you're. If the sister in laws are already mad. Sisters in law are already mad at you for not calling them directly. Yeah, it's not a good look. And then the waiting two days, like, it's starting to feel kind of icky. Her family was pissed, obviously. Like, what if Allison was somewhere and needed to call for help? You know, like, what if she needed that phone? What if she was trapped somewhere? What if she had left but, like, Mike needed to contact them? Yeah, they, I mean, were pissed, rightfully so. And of course, this started to become a little bit of a red flag with Mike because he didn't assist the family at all in any of this. He didn't actually even look for her at all. And the police were not thrilled about this. They searched their home and Mike's vehicle for any sign of foul play, but they didn't find anything. And ultimately Mike was cleared. And Chris, who of course, they looked at next, because he was the last person, you know, who spent time with Allison at the bar. He was also cleared. And investigators focused their efforts next on the bar where Allison was last seen. And this is when they discovered something disturbing.

[Em]

Oh, yeah.

[Christine]

So after checking phone records and dispatch records for local taxi companies, they. There was no record anywhere that attacked taxi had been called for Allison. So who was the guy that walked in and said, I'm here to take Allison to.

[Em]

Oh.

[Christine]

There was no record a taxi had ever been called for Allison. There was also no record that any taxi went to that location at the time Allison left. Nobody had Any idea who Allison left with that night? And that was where they were for. For a little bit. Allison's family hired a private investigator named Mark Benson, which sounds like a private investigator.

[Em]

Well, because. Olivia Benson.

[Christine]

Yeah. Okay, true. And it's Mark with a C, which just feels like, what, an author? Yeah, right.

[Em]

You know, 100.

[Christine]

Just change it up a little bit. He's not a normal mark, you know?

[Em]

No, no, he's a cool mark with a C. Yeah.

[Christine]

But he's never a mark because he's Mark Benson. Hang on, let's write that down for a comic book. Okay, so they hired PI Mark Benson, PI and he spent a year on the case. And. Okay, he spends a year on this case. And By September of 2007, he really. He even admits, like, things were slow. We. We really weren't getting any leads. Not much was going on, progress wise for the case. And then out of the blue, he receives this email from a woman named Susan Ioannoni. And Susan is angry because according to her, her husband Tim was a suspect in Allison's disappearance. And he goes, I'm sorry, what? And she goes, I swear, Tim had nothing to do with this, and I want his name cleared. And Mark goes, who's Tim? Like, who the hell is Tim? This is not a person that has ever come up. Up on the case.

[Em]

In that moment, I would be like, am I a bad detective?

[Christine]

Yeah, right, right. I'd be like, what in the have I missed? Like, this feels like divine intervention here. Like, this woman just calls and goes, hey, my husband Tim didn't do it. And he's like, who the is Tim? And so this was, of course, a surprise to Mark because his name had not come up during his investigation, not once. And he's like, who. Who's Tim? Tim who? And she says, tim Ioannoni. Likewise, the police were not investigating anyone by that name in connection to Allison's disappearance. And it seemed as if the only people accusing Tim of any involvement with Allison was. Was the. The group of people that she was hearing, which were the patrons at the bar that he frequented. And hey, guess what? It happened to be the bar where Allison disappeared.

[Em]

But also. So did he say or did whoever got her from the bar, did they specifically say Allison's name? Like, they must have known her or been hired by someone who knew her?

[Christine]

No. And I think I misspoke because I did sort of imply that the taxi driver came in. So, like, I'm here for Allison. Whatever. There was not even a phone call made out to request a cab for her. They found out after looking at phone records. Like, Chris basically asked the bartender, can you call a taxi for Allison? The bartender's like, sure.

[Em]

And then the guy just showed up.

[Christine]

And this guy walks in, and he doesn't say, allison, but he says, I'm here for whoever called a taxi. Did anybody call a taxi?

[Em]

But what are the odds that, like.

[Christine]

Well, you know, I'll tell you, okay? This is gossip. Because Tim Ioannoni, he's always being talked about in this bar, okay? In this area. He's. He's a known figure.

[Em]

It's like me at the dog park, right?

[Christine]

Except the bad bad. Except the bad side, right?

[Em]

So it's like me at that dog birthday party.

[Christine]

Yes, it's like you at the dog. You're the villain of the story. Yeah. So the only people basically accusing Tim of any involvement with Allison were patrons at the bar. And it was basically just gossip. And his wife was pissed off because she was like, everyone's talking about how he's a suspect, and I want you to clear his name. And in doing so, she put him directly on the radar for this PI because he's like, wait, what? Like, who's Tim? And she's like, everyone's talking about it. And he's like, why would you tell me that?

[Em]

The way I would divorce my wife so quickly if she just threw me under the goddamn bus like that. And I could have gotten away with.

[Christine]

It, too, if it weren't for that meddling wife.

[Em]

Like, hello, that damn wife of mine.

[Christine]

Yeah, I swear, like, she was like. It turns out it was all just gossip. But, of course, gossip. Hey, where there's smoke, there's fire. So Mark reported the email and Tim's information to the police, thinking, like, this probably won't go anywhere. There's just gossip. But the police get a hold of this, and they go, oh, Tim Ioannoni. We know this guy pretty damn well. He had just been charged only weeks earlier, in August 2007, for kidnapping and raping a sex worker at knifepoint. Point. This was a bad, violent man. In questioning, Tim claimed that his only crime was soliciting sex. He denied the rape and kidnapping charges, as well as any knowledge that Allison Jackson Foy even existed. He claimed he had never even heard of her.

[Em]

But also, if you're out there assaulting people, you're probably not getting their name beforehand. You know?

[Christine]

Like, good point. M. Yeah, Point. Point.

[Em]

Saw a woman and went, okay.

[Christine]

And then I imagine they said, like, do you know this per. Do you reckon? I mean, I Assume they showed a photo, because he was like, never heard of her. Never seen her, of course. But Chris Williams had given a description of the taxi driver that walked in and said, I'm here for whoever called a taxi. And, hey, it looked a lot like Tim Ioannoni. And ain't that weird? He also drove a blue van for Port City, which was a local taxi business.

[Em]

Whoopsies. Hello?

[Christine]

Hello? His phone number was actually written down behind the bar for patrons to call. And regulars, often at the bar, said he would hang around and pick people up to make. Make an extra buck.

[Em]

Oh, so he just walked in and just hoped someone had called a cab. Correct, because. And then it was not weird.

[Christine]

People were there, and he was like, hey, how about you? I'll take you home.

[Em]

It's like going to. Like, it's like going. And on a. On a Friday night to the busiest bar and then going, hey, looking for the drunk person.

[Christine]

It's like, come on in. I'll drive you home. Here. The cab you called is here. And it just is bad timing, because who knows? I mean, maybe she still would have gone with him, but who knows? Like, if Chris hadn't gone to the bar and said, hey, call a cab, please. Maybe they wouldn't have assumed that was for them. You know, maybe they would have said, no, sorry, that's not for us.

[Em]

You know, that eats him alive at night.

[Christine]

I mean, of course. And it must just feel, like, total. You know, it's like. It's just got to be awful. So anyway, some places call it Port City Cab or Port City Taxi, depending on the source. But he essentially drove a blue van for Port City, and this number, his phone number, was written behind the bar for patrons to call. And regulars said he hung around late at night and would pick. Pick people up to make an extra fair. And he himself was also a regular at the bar. And so now you can see how this gossip is, like, kind of really part of the bar's whole lore at this point.

[Em]

The reality.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. His wife is really not happy about it. The police homed in on Tim as their first real suspect in the case, and Allison's family was hopeful they might finally get some answers. But unfortunately, there was no physical evidence proving Tim's involvement. And it was clear that if he were involved, he would not be admitting to it anytime soon. So fast Forward to late April 2008. This is nearly two years since Allison's disappearance. Her family receives a call from the authorities. Human remains have been discovered in the woods just a few miles From Junction Pub and Billiards, where she was last seen. Weirdly, though, the remains belong to two people.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

Both were completely decomposed. One person had been left in a low ditch, and vegetation had grown over their remains before a second person was left directly on top of the first person.

[Em]

Wow.

[Christine]

Yeah. And it's just got to be weird to have this kind of job that I'm about to mention. Investigators were able to observe the amount of plant growth over the first set of remains and then determine that. That the second person was killed and left there a full year. Like, a full calendar year after the second person was left there. I'm sorry, A full calendar year after the first. So they were able to figure that out just by, you know, how the. How the plants were growing, which maybe is intuitive to some people, but not.

[Em]

What is that? Like, just, like, forensic vegetation? Like, what is that?

[Christine]

Oh, my God. Forensic husbandry. Wait, are we. Did we just. Did we. What have we done?

[Em]

We made a full circle. That was what that was.

[Christine]

Oh, something happened there.

[Em]

Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.

[Christine]

Okay. We just changed something.

[Em]

Carry on.

[Christine]

Oh, hi, Shell. So they were able to determine that somebody had been left there an entire year before the second body had been laid directly on top. And it was suspected that the first remains that had been there the longest might belong to Allison because there was a pink sweater at the scene that matched the description of the one she.

[Em]

Wore to the bar with Chris.

[Christine]

Horrible. And they had to send photos to Allison's sister of jewelry discovered at the scene. And her sister confirmed, yes, that belonged to Allison. And, of course, now Allison's family is sure that Allison is dead. However, it takes medical examiners nearly six months to use DNA to confirm that the remains did, in fact, belong to Allison.

[Em]

Six months. Like, talk about waiting and waiting, because.

[Christine]

You'Re like, I have the closure. I just need, like, the final staple or whatever. The. I just need the final closure. And, yeah, it took a while, but it took six months. They did confirm it was Allison's remain, or they were Allison's remains. And, you know, based on this evidence now that they finally had. Police believed Allison was killed the night she disappeared and that her remains had just been in that same spot since the moment she died. She was only 34 years old. It's just wild to me. I put that back in there because it's, like, so. So young. 34 years old. The autopsy found that Allison was covered in deep lacerations, having been stabbed at least 40 times, and the attack seemed either extremely personal or just extremely Enraged, you know, just extremely angry. And I feel like sometimes we feel like it's personal, and then it turns.

[Em]

Out they are just like they snapped.

[Christine]

Or they just, like, hate women or something, or they hate their mother, and they're like, you know. You know, that kind of transformation thing. Yeah, that. Where. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So could be that Allison's friend, Peter Roach, said he believed Allison would have fought to the very end to get home to her daughters. So her family and friends, you know, at least chose to believe that maybe.

[Em]

That'S why there was 40 stabs, because, like, she was fighting him, and he just went.

[Christine]

Maybe that's exactly what he was implying. And I just didn't even understand that. Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're totally right. The other remains, which, of course, were a surprise, belong to a woman named Angela K. Nobles Rothen. She was only 42 when she disappeared in June of 2007. She was very, very, very, very beloved by her. She had. She was a sister, a mother, a grandma, had a beloved extended family, and had disappeared in June of 2007 and basically left no trace. Her skull. When they discovered her remains had been fractured as well as bones in her face, and her cause of death appeared to be a laceration to the neck. And, you know, of course, Angela and Allison's families are finally able to do things like publish obituaries and make final arrangements to lay them to rest. You know, the killer is still out there. Right. Like, they haven't actually put anybody behind bars yet. So Allison's friend Peter goes to Wilmington with Allison's sister, and they stop at the site where Allison and Angela were found because they want to leave flowers. They want to pay their respects. Well, don't you know it. They find more bones on the ground.

[Em]

Great.

[Christine]

They contact police and are like, there are human bones here. And they determine that the bones belong to Allison. However, investigators had thoroughly collected all of the remains when they were first discovered.

[Em]

Are they just being placed there again, like this is an escape room or something?

[Christine]

Sort of. The local media had reported that Allison's family was coming to collect her remains. And it appeared that the murderer, knowing the family was coming to town, put more bones out just to with them.

[Em]

Also, that. That tells you that they were keeping her bones as trophies and, like, it just had extras.

[Christine]

That's a really good point, because, like, if they had just been left there.

[Em]

No, he kept some.

[Christine]

Yeah, he must. Yeah, exactly. He did.

[Em]

Yeah. Also, he probably still had more, because I can't imagine he would put all of them out and, like, lose his, like, little trophy for his collection.

[Christine]

Creepy trophy. Oh, my God. That's so sick. That's so sick. So, yeah, basically, he sees on the news that they're coming to pay respects at the. At the shrine or at the, you know, memorial site and puts her bones. I mean, that's sick. That's so sick.

[Em]

Evil.

[Christine]

It's evil. It's evil. So with no more leads, police turned to the public for help. An employee at a seafood restaurant near the site where the remains were discovered reported that on several occasions, he saw something a little bit suspicious, or at least odd. He said he saw a man park a blue Port City taxi van behind the restaurant and hang up a tarp.

[Em]

Okay.

[Christine]

And they were like, cool, cool, cool. Here's our FBI sketch artist. Can you please draw him? And guess what? His glasses, which were, like, a particular shape, they matched exactly to the Tim Ioannoni drawing from earlier. It looked just like him. The remains of Angela and Allison were also discovered just 100 yards from the site where a sex worker accused Tim of raping her. So, you know, it's close to the bar where he was a regular. It's a hundred yards from where a sex worker accused him of raping her.

[Em]

Just.

[Christine]

It's kind of obvious, right?

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So police are able to cite probable cause to search Tim's property and vehicles, but they could not find a single shred of evidence linking him to either murder. In an interview, Lee Odom, Detective Sergeant of Wilmington pd, said, I thoroughly believe that the evidence exists to prosecute Timothy Ioannoni for murder, at least for the murder of Allison Foy. But that evidence just has not been found, and he hasn't been able to indict Tim for either of the murders. In 2012, however, he was indicted for embezzlement and breaking and entering, for which he served six years. And then in December of 2022, Tim, who is then 62 years old, was sentenced to at least 48 years in prison for raping a woman in 1996. So he was still being.

[Em]

It's not. There was no. He was gonna keep doing what he was doing.

[Christine]

He was. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Michelle, who was primarily identified by only her first name and sources, to protect her privacy, reported the rape and underwent a rape kit in 1996 when it had happened. But it sat untested for over 20 years because the backlog of rape kits. And attached to her rape kit was paperwork which did identify Tim as a suspect. And so, finally, in 2019, there was enough Funding to process the backlogged rape kits. And Tim was finally definitively identified in the case and ultimately convicted and sentenced for the crime. So, essentially, if that had happened back in the 90s, you know, and there wasn't this shortage of tech available or this. Whatever. Whatever you want to get into it, but the. The backlog of rape kids, if. If that hadn't been a problem, he probably would have gone to jail, you know, and not forever gone around. Yeah, it just sucks, you know, it's. Of course, it's coulda, shoulda, woulda, and, like, thankfully, at least it was ultimately processed. But it just sucks to hear 20 years, you know, where he's just getting away with it.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So during their investigation, law enforcement spoke to six other women, Most of whom were sex workers, some of whom were unhoused. And they also accused him of attacking and assaulting them. Some of them accused him of attacking them, basically at the exact site where Angela's and Allison's remains were discovered. Again, linking him. These testimonies strengthened detectives resolve that Tim is guilty of Angela's and Allison's murders. Allison's family are very sure of this exact same thing. Following the sentencing, Allison's oldest daughter Courtney, said, michelle's my hero right now. It took her 26 years to get the justice that she has very much deserved. And We've been waiting 16 years for ours. She pleaded that anyone with any information on her mother's murder would come forward so that her family could seek justice and closure. Allison's sister, Lisa Valentino, said she would not give up hope that her sister and Angela will one day receive justice. And, you know, I really hope they do, because I feel like we do see things changing, like technology, and we never know what's next.

[Em]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Which I know we talk about a lot, but, yeah, that's the story. And I don't feel like we're out of hope that this will get solved, you know? Yeah, it feels like it's solvable. I hope feels solvable. The fact that, like, he's still alive. They're pretty sure they know who did it. I don't know. I just hope.

[Em]

Knock on wood.

[Christine]

Knock on wood.

[Em]

Well, good. Bad story, Christine.

[Christine]

Thank you.

[Em]

You always do it best.

[Christine]

Thanks.

[Em]

And worst and worst update to everybody. This tangerine strawberry San pellegrino just tastes like fake strawberry.

[Christine]

I think I'm gonna like it. And you're not. Yeah.

[Em]

I do not like it. So you will love it.

[Christine]

It sounds delicious to me.

[Em]

No, thank you. But there is a blood. I'm Sorry.

[Christine]

Imagine saying blood and then just starting a coughing fit in the other. It's like, what?

[Em]

There's a blood orange. Blood orange and BlackBerry one Next.

[Christine]

I knew you were gonna say blood orange. I love blood orange. That actually maybe sounds even better to me than the strawberry one.

[Em]

Do you have a favorite fruit?

[Christine]

I think blood orange.

[Em]

I've talked about this before.

[Christine]

I love oranges. Yeah, I feel like blood orange is one of my favorite flavors.

[Em]

What about you?

[Christine]

What about a straw? Or is that not top only chocolate straw? Well, I mean, I know how you feel about that.

[Em]

I like berries and stone fruits are my usual two categories, but my favorite fruit is like an orange clementine situation.

[Christine]

Yeah, me too. Me too. Yeah, but I'll.

[Em]

Every time I eat one, Every time I eat one, I go, go, holy shit. This is incredible.

[Christine]

I'm like, damn, nature's cool. Yeah, nature's yummy.

[Em]

Delicious. Speaking of food, if you want to hear us talk about these menus behind me and you'd like to see what you would have ordered in the 1930s.

[Christine]

My order. I'm so excited.

[Em]

You can head over to Patreon, and you can also hear us come up with our 70s kids club names.

[Christine]

Yeah. Or not, because we probably will never figure it out, but we'll try.

[Em]

Head on over to Patreon and we'll see you next week. And that's why we drink.

[Christine]

Crispy strips. Listos paraventurace en la mescla de mayo. Ketchup. La barbecue Que quetono El fondo de la cajita. Hot fudge sundae Enla Nueva. Creamy Chili McCrispy Strip Dip. Los Nuevos McCrispy strips out in McDonald's. When you're a pro, you gotta do a little bit of everything. A little, a little, and even a little. And it helps to have something that works as hard as you do. That's why Valspar has durable, high coverage paint for every job. Every time made. For more Valspar pros. Head to Lowe's today and talk to a pro rep about saving time and money on your next job with Valspar. Signature paint exclusions apply. See valsparpro.com for details. Hi, I'm Cassidy. And I'm Amanda. And we're the hosts of Drinking the Kool Aid, a comedy podcast dedicated to the mysterious. Tune in every week while we cover two chilling tales about everything from cults to aliens to the paranormal. All with a sense of humor. So grab a drink and tune in to Drinking the Kool Aid wherever you get your podcasts.