E447 Home Appliance Hauntings and Narcissists in White

Summary

And That's Why We Drink – Episode 447:

"Home Appliance Hauntings and Narcissists in White"

Release Date: August 31, 2025

Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz

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Episode Overview

This episode blends classic And That's Why We Drink energy: lighthearted banter, personal stories of anxiety and pets, and, as always, a duo of chilling tales—one paranormal and one true crime. Em covers the baffling "Emilchin UFO Abduction" of 1978 in Poland, involving a farmer's wild encounter with green-skinned beings, while Christine tells the tragic, winding story of the Bishop family murders, a notorious unsolved family annihilator case. Expect insight, gallows humor, self-deprecation, and just enough paranormal and true crime to warrant your favorite beverage.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Chatter: Air Hunger, Anxiety, and Candy (03:25–16:00)

• Christine discusses her experience with "air hunger," a sensation of being unable to take a deep breath, which leads to anxiety spirals:

  "There's a word for it, and it's ridiculous, but it's what it is. It's called air hunger. And it sounds so... disturbing.” — Christine (04:49)

• Personal anecdotes about how this manifests and disrupts daily life and sleep, the feeling that anxiety or stress amplifies the issue, and shared experiences of medical anxiety and seeking reassurance from friends and partners.

• Christine admits finding expired strawberry candies in her closet—“apparently, at one point in my life, I bought 130 strawberry candies" (10:14)—and makes jokes about chaotic snacking.

• Notable Moment: A digressive riff about mysterious pet disappearances leads to Em speculating about portals and bizarre home appliance malfunctions (dishwasher, oven, and WiFi all going haywire at once).

  "Maybe he went through the portal and set off the dishwasher, and everything went to hell." — Christine (15:42)

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2. The Hannah Montana Tangent (16:59–20:31)

A classic pop culture detour, with Em excitedly forecasting possible Hannah Montana 20th anniversary plans:

"If it's a Hannah Montana tour, I will scream. I don't care if it's a million dollars. I will find the money. This is my ERAS tour." — Em (17:22)

They reminisce about childhood shows and concerts, poke fun at themselves for being "behind" current events due to advanced recording schedules, and discuss the generational touchstones that set their friendship's tone.

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3. Em’s Paranormal Story: The Emilchin UFO Abduction (23:13–74:46)

Story Summary (with Timestamps and Quotes):

• Setting: Emilchin, Poland, 1978.
• Victim: Jan Volsky, a 71-year-old respected farmer.

The Encounter (23:28–42:35)

• Jan is driving his horse-drawn cart when he encounters two green-skinned, oddly built beings walking on the road. They slow down to let him catch up, then silently board his cart and sit behind him.
• Description: Five feet tall, green skin, webbed hands, "slanted and completely dark eyes", "no nose, but a small bump with nostril openings", and seamless black hooded suits. (34:05–34:50)
• The beings appear to "disarm" his fear and communicate in a fast, incomprehensible language.

"He remembers not feeling any fear, but still feeling a sense of being hypnotized into obeying." — Em (42:35)

• They ride together into a clearing, where a seamless metallic UFO is hovering. (35:05–36:39)
• Jan is gestured onboard via a platform. While on the craft, he notices a plain black room with glass-like walls, benches, a polished floor, and several paralyzed birds on the floor. (45:57–47:49)

The "Examination" (49:45–52:14)

• Jan is asked (gestured) to undress and is briefly scanned by vibrating, disc-like tools.

• The aliens are particularly fascinated with his belt:

  "They kept undoing it and then redoing it and then commenting to each other about it." — Em (53:11)

• Jan is offered an "icicle"-like snack, which he refuses, then released after a summary "mouth check."

• He bows to the aliens as he departs—awkward social anxiety transcending even interplanetary etiquette.

  "He didn't know what to do, so he bowed. And they matched his social anxiety because they bowed back." — Em (58:23–58:31)

Aftermath & Investigation (59:06–74:28)

• Jan returns home and, after sleeping for hours, tells his family. When he shows the supposed site to neighbors and sons, they find rectangular footprints, possible signs of soil disruption, and feathers (no birds).
• The horse had been grazing for 2 hours, suggesting possible time distortion (61:32).
• Police (still loyal to Soviet authorities) dismiss the story as a hoax/drunkenness, but most of the local community believes Jan wholeheartedly.
• Subsequent ufologists investigate, with Dr. Blania eventually becoming the main advocate of the story—until, in 2013, a researcher uncovers old notes suggesting the whole event may have been an inspired hypnotic prank conducted by feuding ufologists (70:05–72:59).

Theories & Cultural Legacy

• Was Jan hypnotized into a detailed false memory as part of an inter-ufologist rivalry?

• The incident remains Poland’s most famous UFO abduction, subject to documentaries and memorialized by a monument that declares:

  “A UFO object landed, and the truth will astonish us in the future.” (74:46)

• Memorable descriptions:

  • The seamless craft: “...as if the whole thing was made of one piece of metal.”
  • The aliens' attire: “tight yet seamless black hooded rubber suits.”
  • The bizarre paralyzed birds, which both hosts found super unsettling.

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4. Christine’s True Crime Story: The Bishop Family Murders (82:11–119:56)

Story Summary (with Timestamps and Quotes):

• Setting: Bethesda, Maryland, and North Carolina, 1976.
• Victims: Annette Bishop, her three sons (William, Brenton, and Jeffrey), and mother-in-law (Lobelia).

Discovery (82:48–90:07)

• Forest ranger finds a shallow grave in rural North Carolina: two women and three children (boys, in pajamas), all bludgeoned and covered by sheets and a tarp. A bloody gas can and shovel with Maryland store labels are found at the scene.

The Investigation (86:00–98:25)

• It takes a week for officials to link them to the Bishop family, missing from Maryland. Father William Bradford Bishop is notably absent.
• The crime scene at their Bethesda home is described as "a slasher film gone wrong"—blood everywhere, but no bodies.
• A set of forensic links:
  • Shovel from a Maryland hardware store.
  • Bloody fingerprint on the gas can matches Bradford's military records.
  • Witnesses saw Bradford buying a gas can and hammer at Sears, and his behavior suggested premeditation.

"He had the odds stacked in his favor... fluent in multiple languages, diplomatic passport, and a licensed pilot." — Christine (99:32)

The Manhunt (99:32–107:49)

• Bradford is believed to have driven the bodies to North Carolina for disposal, then ditched the car in Tennessee. Witnesses spot him buying new shoes in Jacksonville, NC (credit card evidence).
• He may have transferred to another vehicle—a possible accomplice?
• He absconds with the family dog, Leo ("He couldn't bear to hurt his own dog. But his children and wife and mother were fair game, I guess." — Christine, 105:14).
• Bradford’s diplomatic passport and knowledge of international travel give him a tremendous advantage, and authorities suspect he may have faked his own suicide (missing medicine, abandoned vehicle).

Cold Trails and DNA Surprises (107:49–113:50)

• For decades, "Bradford Bishop" sightings are reported worldwide, including France (1993) and a John Doe DNA exhumation in 2014—both false leads.
• In 2017, retired teacher Kathy Gilchrist submits her DNA and discovers that her birth father, whom she never met, was Bradford Bishop.

  "Unfortunately, your father is Bradford Bishop, a man who is wanted for the murder of his entire family, AKA your entire family." — Christine quoting Susan, the genealogist (110:59)

• Gilchrist processes this, connecting with her murdered half-siblings' story and reflecting on survivor’s guilt—a poignant subplot.

Motive and Legacy (113:50–119:56)

• Background: Bishop was a high-achieving, status-conscious government worker who lived abroad and resented his “boring” U.S. office life.
• On March 1, 1976, after missing out on a coveted promotion, he likely snapped.

  "He killed his family because he wanted to leave behind and start a new life... this selfish move of 'my dog and I want to go start over. Bye.’" — Christine (116:23)

• Despite being placed on the FBI’s most wanted list, Bishop is never caught and his fate remains unknown (would be nearly 90 if alive at time of recording). The case remains open and infamous, a textbook study in narcissistic rage and family annihilation.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Air Hunger and Anxiety:

  "It's called air hunger... It really is this idea of, like, you’re so focused on trying to get a breath because you can’t... and the more you think about it, like, the worse it gets." — Christine (04:49)

• On the UFO Encounter:

  "He remembers not feeling any fear, but still feeling a sense of being hypnotized into obeying." — Em (42:35)
  "He didn't know what to do, so he bowed. And they matched his social anxiety because they bowed back." — Em (58:23–58:31)

• On the Alien’s Attitude Toward Human Technology

  "They kept undoing [the belt] and then redoing it and then commenting to each other about it." — Em (53:11)
  "It's like in The Good Place when Michael's fascinated by paper clips... If you think about it, yeah, it's pretty interesting, a belt, how that works if you've never seen it." — Christine (53:27)

• The Bishop Case’s Grim Irony:

  "He couldn't bear to hurt his own dog. But his children and wife and mother were fair game, I guess." — Christine (105:14)
  "In his twisted mind, he felt as if he deserved better. And doesn't that just..." — Christine (117:27)

• On Storytelling Styles:

  "If there's ever an And That's Why I Drink bingo card, I think the free spot should be narcissist / lady in white." — Em (121:03)

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Timestamps for Main Segments

• Chit-chat, anxiety, pet stories: 03:25–16:00
• Hannah Montana, pop culture digression: 16:59–20:31
• Emilchin UFO Abduction (Em): 23:13–74:46
• Bishop Family Murders (Christine): 82:11–119:56

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Closing Notes

• The episode's tone alternates between humorous self-disclosure, awe at the weirdness of the universe (both paranormal and criminal), and genuine empathy for crime victims.
• Listeners are reminded that even the wildest stories—alien abductions or the darkest true crime—are always filtered through skepticism, humor, and humanity.

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For full, immersive context and the hosts’ delightful repartee (plus bonus content like quizzes and mini-episodes), check out their Patreon or streaming platforms.

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Why Do They Drink?

Christine: "Because I can't breathe, apparently!"
Em: "Because if the Hannah Montana tour is real, everyone's going to be so annoyed with me."

And that's why we drink.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[B]

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[A]

Oh, my God. No. My belly button piercing is not. Has not healed. I'm just kidding.

[B]

Your big tattoo says mom on your stomach.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[B]

Welcome to and that's why we drink where apparently Christine can't breathe today.

[A]

So I'm like so shocked that you don't know what I meant. I thought I've talked to you about this before. It feels like I would have.

[B]

No, I think you've, you've hidden it pretty well. Christine said, oh, yeah, I'm having one of those days where I can't breathe. And I was like, what the.

[A]

Are you talking? True. Okay. So I actually started googling it a few days ago because it, it had used to happen to me almost daily and I would think like, oh, I must. So basically the feeling is like, I can't get a full breath in.

[B]

That sucks.

[A]

And so then it, yeah, it does suck. And then it kind of like contributes to this sort of like underlying anxiety because you're like, yeah, overly focused on your breathing. And then obviously the more you think about it, like the worse it gets and it's just this spiral and it's so bad when I'm trying to sleep at night because it's like I'm trying to slow my heart rate down but like when I can't get a full breath, my heart rate starts going up anyway.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

It hasn't happened for a while. I think I've just been more stressed this week. I don't know, but it's been happening more. And so I finally googled it because I was like, this has to be a thing. Like, I don't know. I'm assuming it's anxiety. For a while. I told Em for a while I thought I punctured a lung because I did actually have this weird thing where when I turned, there was like, a sound.

[B]

What the. Christine, are you okay?

[A]

I don't know, because it didn't happen when I turned the other way.

[B]

Do you want to record today? We don't have. We can.

[A]

No, no, I'm fine.

[B]

Seriously, girl, you can't say both of those things in the same sentence.

[A]

It's. It's. So. There's a word for it, and it's ridiculous, but it's what it is. It's called air hunger. And it's. It sounds so, like, disturbing, but it really is this idea of, like, you're. You're so focused on trying to get a breath because you can't. You don't feel like you have enough air.

[B]

So you're like, patient zero for the people who need to, like, remind themselves to breathe.

[A]

See, that's the problem is, like, you're not even, like, to. To get out of it. There's some, like, tactics. And, like, you're really not supposed to think about it too much because then you're really trying to breathe. And like, I guess the idea. The point. What's happening is it's a backup of carbon dioxide. And so you're. You're getting more carbon dioxide buildup in your body because you're kind of maybe breathing shallowly due to anxiety. And that's kind of how it often starts. This is also a post Covid thing people get sometimes. And yeah, it's a thing. And apparently one of the ways to do it is to really, really intentionally and like, slowly breathe out and hold your breath at the bottom of your breath to try and, like, get used to getting the carbon dioxide out of your system. Anyway, I was watching that under my daughter's bed the other day as I was, like, trying to fall asleep next to her. She had a stomach bug. And I was like, cannot breathe. How to lay on floor while not able to breathe? Anyway, it's just been a wild time. So I'm like. When Em looked at me like, what are saying to me right now? I was like, oh, I've never talked about this, but I felt if anyone could relate. I think you've mentioned.

[B]

I think you've mentioned it before, but I didn't understand the severity. I think you were like, I'm, like, just having, like a. Like, I'm flustered kind of breathing.

[A]

Yeah. It just. And then it's like, the reason I tell people, too, is because I'll do. I'll do this thing where I'll go, like. And I'll do this, like, big breath when I finally get air. And, like, inevitably somebody will go, like, everything okay? Which is like a normal reaction when someone sighs loudly and you're like, right in your presence. And so for a while, Blaze is like, are you okay? And I. So eventually I had to say, like, please don't ask me if, like, if I'm okay when I do a big breath, because I'm just trying to breathe. And so I'm less self conscious about it now, at least when I'm, like, laying in bed. But if you. If anyone sees me yawning, too. That's, like, part of it is like, you start trying to yawn. Yeah. Like, you're literally trying to get oxygen. So. I'm not bored. I'm just trying to get air. Anyway, I'm sorry. It sounds so dramatic.

[B]

I feel like, what an elaborate excuse to be bored from my story and just tell me preemptively if I yawn and sigh and I look like I don't want to be here. It's. It's not you, it's me.

[A]

I've just stopped giving a. But I don't want you to know it, you know? No, no. So that. So anyway, I. I didn't even mean. That's my reason. I drink, I guess, because I wasn't really prepared with one, but that's why I drink, too.

[B]

I feel bad making you.

[A]

Well, now I'm worried about my whooshing rib, like, because you acted like that wasn't normal.

[B]

Are they not connected? They're not. That's. They're not us.

[A]

Oh, I don't know. Maybe they are.

[B]

I don't know. Maybe it's like, you, like, you know when you crack your knuckle and then it feels better. Maybe you crack your. But like, your lug would feel better.

[A]

Somewhere Blaze's eyebrows just went up like a centimeter and he was like, what's happening?

[B]

I. I was just at the doctor. If you texted me about this, I could have asked for you about.

[A]

Oh, that would have. Yeah. I should have zoomed in. I should have. Should have FaceTimed in.

[B]

Just be like, oh, quick little cue.

[A]

My.

[B]

My friend's not breathing.

[A]

What Should I do too fur for you? Yeah.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

You should have pretended it was you. Be like, yes, I have this problem.

[B]

I can't breathe, as you can tell. Air hunger. Wow. Well, I feel. Anyway, I'll try not to make you laugh too hard then. Don't worry.

[A]

Maybe that'll fix it. Like, you know, hiccups or something. I mean, I don't know.

[B]

How long has it lasted before? Like, what's the.

[A]

Oh, days. I mean, it goes on days. It's really awful.

[B]

Oh, my God. Okay.

[A]

I mean, it's. It gets better throughout the day, like, if I do breathing exercises, but, man, I think. And it hasn't been since, like, college really this bad. So I don't know, is it like.

[B]

Altitude sickness when, like, you're trying to catch a breath and it doesn't ever feel right?

[A]

That's sort of kind of how it feels.

[B]

And I wish I could send you, like, a tank of oxygen. I don't know.

[A]

Oh, thank you. I. You know, I will also add, I did feel I'm on my period, so nobody out mask. But I did feel like this when I was very pregnant also. But I think that's probably a different thing. But it's the same kind of idea where it's like.

[B]

Well, that one I imagine.

[A]

Shortness of breath.

[B]

There was a baby kind of pushing against your lungs.

[A]

Exactly. And it feels kind of like that. Like I can't get the space to breathe. It's the weirdest thing. But next week on.

[B]

I didn't know I was pregnant.

[A]

I know, right? I'm literally. That's why I announced my menstrual cycle. Anyway, too bad nobody knows when we're recording, so. You can't trick me yet. I won't triangulate my menstrual cycle yet.

[B]

Not yet, but give it 24 hours. Probably.

[A]

Probably.

[B]

Okay. Well, what do you drink? Tell me you're drinking water or something. Oh, I'm drinking an energy drink or some shit.

[A]

Dr. Pepper. Angry Orchard girl. And then I found this really big bag of candy in my closet. I don't know where it's from.

[B]

You are destined for chaos.

[A]

And it's a bag of those hard candies with strawberry in the middle.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And it's only a few months expired, so I feel like it's fine to eat.

[B]

Yeah. Spoken like a true mom.

[A]

Yeah. But there. Apparently, at one point in my life, I bought 130 strawberry candies.

[B]

And that is the least weird part of it all.

[A]

I know, right? So, anyway, that's what's Happening in my neck of the woods.

[B]

It's their Fault for making 130 candy.

[A]

Bags my fucking problem.

[B]

They obviously knew you sell it by it. Well, okay. I feel sorry about that and that we have to record, but, no, I'm loving it.

[A]

Maybe it's a distraction, you know?

[B]

Sure. I. Can I help you? This dog is just the. Just.

[A]

I was like, that's so thoughtful. Let me think. Do you have an oxygen tank?

[B]

Are you okay? He. He's having anxiety on his own today. Oh, I. Today was the first day. I don't know what I thought happened. I went to the doctor. I left him here. And as everybody knows, I'm always scared that he's destroying something. And when I went to check the cameras, it said, not connected, and I went. I just know that means the dog ate the router. I just know that's what it means. Like, he ate the WI fi router.

[A]

The WI fi is out. Oh, my God.

[B]

And I came home, and I opened the door, and he usually. He's, like, busting out of the door to see me.

[A]

He wasn't. He hears you.

[B]

He wasn't anywhere. He wasn't in the living room. This is, like, probably my nightmare. The closest. The closest thing to, like, a paranormal experience I've had in a while. He was not in the living room. He was not in the kitchen. He was not in the bedroom or the bathroom. And I was, like, calling for him. I was like, where are you, Hank?

[A]

Hank, that's terrifying.

[B]

And I looked everywhere. There's, like, six walls in this house, so it wasn't hard to look. I looked everywhere. I. Then I was like, maybe he, like, got out in the back. Like, he learned how to use a doorknob. And I, like, ran outside, and I.

[A]

Was like, I would not put that past him.

[B]

And when I turned around, he was like. He just came out of nowhere. I swear to God. He, like, revanished, like, the opposite of. I looked everywhere. There's. There was.

[A]

Where did he reappear?

[B]

He reappeared in the bedroom that I had to walk all the way through to get to the door. And I looked everywhere. I was like, where the hell is this dog?

[A]

Did you, like, hear him, or was he just sitting.

[B]

Didn't hear anything. He was just standing there. What the f. And I, like, I. He is never. If he weren't at the door waiting for me, I would have heard his feet running towards the door when I got there, and he was just nowhere. And that's even eerier because if for some reason, he didn't rematerialize. Like, I think he did. I'm still like, why? What's going on energy wise that you, like, don't give a shit anymore.

[A]

When I come home, you just, like, hid for. And then I was calling for you and you didn't come, and then you. I mean, maybe he was like, really asleep. I don't know. Like, I'm trying to think of things that would, like, but where would he. Does he ever go under the bed or something?

[B]

No, we don't have an under the bed. We.

[A]

Oh, it's.

[B]

I don't know where. I don't know. I. I literally came in screaming from.

[A]

Because I thought maybe he went to the beyond. Like, we do, like, really went to the beyond?

[B]

I think so. He really seemed to fade into existence.

[A]

I wonder if there's a portal in your bedroom. Is that comforting?

[B]

Nope. I. I really did have a full panic.

[A]

Where in the bedroom? Like by your bed or like by the door?

[B]

You have to. So when you were walking into my bedroom, there's my bed on the left, and then there's a dresser on the right, and there's a patio, and then there's a door to a patio. And I looked left and right, and he was not there. And I walked across the room and I opened the door and went outside to see if he had gotten out somehow in the yard. And when I turned around, he was just standing in the bedroom. And I was like, I. I don't know what happened. I. It could have just been. I don't know.

[A]

There's no way is he hiding in the bathtub. I'm like, where? Well, he hates the bath.

[B]

He has to. And also because I'm scared of him eating everything, I close off the bathroom and any other stuff.

[A]

Right.

[B]

He only has access to the kitchen and living room.

[A]

Did he have like, one of those things? He's like, I didn't do it. I didn't. Like, was there any trouble afoot? No, but when he was hiding, when he.

[B]

He. When we saw each other, he jumped up on me and his heart was pounding like crazy. And I was like, is he scared? Like, was he hiding? And I didn't. He had pretty damn. Well, I didn't see where he was, but he. He. I don't. I don't know. It was just very weird. And honestly, he could have just been.

[A]

Having a bad dream.

[B]

Maybe he was having. We having a bad week.

[A]

And then he heard you open the door and went, oh, who's that? And then said, oh, I was so scared yeah, maybe.

[B]

I don't know. I was just a weird moment where I was like, he's never not cared. And I Like how my response is like, this must be supernatural that you don't care about me.

[A]

All of a sudden, when you said it was the closest to a paranormal, I thought you're gonna say, like, closest to a parenting experience. And then he said, paranormal. And I went, oh, that changes the tone. I'm sorry. I thought we were going rental route. And then he said, paranormal. I went, okay, interesting.

[B]

Well, I'm wondering if there was, like, an energy surge, because the WI fi went out, and then when I came here.

[A]

Oh, maybe he got scared. Oh, and he hid somewhere.

[B]

Yeah, because the.

[A]

Oh, you got to figure out his hiding spot then. If you can't, if you don't know where it is and he's hiding somewhere, you better put on another energy surge and see where he goes.

[B]

He. Well, he. The WI fi was out. The dishwasher had turned itself on, which the dishwasher does have Internet, which is very odd. So what isn't that. And the oven has Internet.

[A]

Jeez. Oh, that's cool.

[B]

And all of them were on. The oven was on. And I went, what? This has to be a.

[A]

Okay, I love this. First of all, to me, this is more paranormal than the dog appearing, but I love that, like, now it's either one. They could either both be paranormal or they could be both completely.

[B]

Like, I don't.

[A]

Explainable by science. Like the. But this. Because the energy surge. Yeah. Maybe that freak freaked him out. I don't know. Or maybe.

[B]

I don't. I don't know. It was just all.

[A]

Maybe he went through the portal and set off the dishwasher, and everything went to hell.

[B]

I think I was also just so high alert because I was like, my dog is gone. And.

[A]

Yeah, of course.

[B]

And then all of a sudden, he showed up without making a single sound, and I was like, what the hell? And then all of a sudden, all. All the machines were on, and I'm like. And the WI fi was out. And I was like, I don't know what's going on. So it was just.

[A]

Maybe he scared himself somehow. Yeah. Oh, poor baby.

[B]

Proof that I will make anything a ghost. So.

[A]

I know. I mean, maybe it was. Maybe a ghost set off your. Set off your WI fi, and I hope not.

[B]

Anyway. And then I drink a iced tea that I. I sent it out. I sent out for it, so.

[A]

You sent out for it. Lovely. That's great.

[B]

Other than that, I. I got. I got Nothing, I guess. I'm about to see my parents this week, and.

[A]

We'Re recording so far in advance, people.

[B]

Yeah. By the time you hear this, they'll have been gone for, like, a month.

[A]

It's like, it's like weeks ahead. So I, I, I do fear we'll be a little, like, behind on any sort of. Whatever. We're just running off. I feel like, you know, it's like the train went off and we. A rogue. A rogue train. This is a bad analogy. I'm trying to think of, like, an analogy where we left everyone behind and, like, they just better. They're gonna have to catch up and we won't have a way to kind of retroactively fix anything.

[B]

Can I make a prediction then? When people hear this, they will probably have more of an answer than what I have now. I don't know where you've been, but biggest news of the year, Christine. And obviously, I gotta. I gotta keep you young here. You ready?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

20Th anniversary of Hannah Montana, and Miley Cyrus said that she has something special in the works.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And now we are. Swear to God, if it is a Hannah Montana tour, I will scream. I'm telling you, no money, no amount. There's no. This is my ERAS tour. This is. I don't care if it's a million dollars. I will find the money. I am so excited. I've already made an imaginary, like, set list of, like, how I think all the songs will go in order.

[A]

My God, I literally.

[B]

I can't even, like, I have goosebumps.

[A]

What would your T shirt say? Would it be puffy paint? Would it be, like, you made. You had it made online? Would you make it yourself?

[B]

Well, obviously, we're dressing as Hannah Montana characters, so.

[A]

Right. So fe. For sure.

[B]

I don't know if I should be Hannah Montana or, like, I should be Mike Stand, which was, like, her friend Oliver's alter ego in disguise.

[A]

Stand.

[B]

I was thinking about maybe being her horse. I was thinking about.

[A]

That's a good one. That could be two people I know. Oh, wait, hold on. Hank can be the horse.

[B]

He. Yes. What's the horse's name? Blue Jeans. He'll be Blue Jeans.

[A]

I don't even remember. Renee was so into that show, and it has such a. Such a big place in my heart. But we didn't have Disney Channel until, like, high school or something, so I could only watch it at her house. But it is, it was a. It's a great show.

[B]

Oh, it was everything to me. And by the way, Hannah Montana was My first concert I ever went to, so.

[A]

Oh, my God. So it's literally. I mean, this is. Talk about Era's tour. Like, fucking move aside.

[B]

I know it was the Best of Both Worlds tour in 2006, and I'm imagining she's going to recreate the Best of Both Worlds tour, and, like, it's going to be handy.

[A]

The Worst of Both Worlds. What if it's. Anyway, that's where we've ended up.

[B]

She hasn't. So here's the thing. Me and half of the Internet have all just decided that she's actually doing this. And, like, we're all hand. We're all treating it like it's real. She hasn't said anything except she has something planned.

[A]

And it could be, like, the Ratatouille movie. You guys can do it yourself. If she doesn't do it, you know, like a group project.

[B]

Like the fact that she probably meant, like, I'm gonna put out a T shirt, and it's like, girl, you're going.

[A]

On tour line or something.

[B]

Yeah, but so the Internet, we're all preparing for whenever the tickets come out. And she hasn't even announced.

[A]

I have a Bedazzler.

[B]

Perfect. I need them for blue jeans.

[A]

I made it for Dean. For denim jacket. A denim jacket for Leona last year. I love my little Bedazzler. If you need any, I'll find a way. Yeah.

[B]

Anyway, that's why I drink. Because if that's real, it's about to. Everyone's gonna be so annoyed with me, so.

[A]

Not just me. Finally.

[B]

No. Can't wait. And also, I did tell Allison I was, like, depending on your excitement because she didn't grow up watching Hannah Montana. I was, like, depending on your excitement on how excited I am determines if you come with me or if I bring someone else. So I'm going to really need you to bring your A game. If you care at all.

[A]

So Allison and I watched Rick Steves growing up. You know, like, Antiques Roadshow. That was kind of our bag. So.

[B]

Yeah. So she might not be coming.

[A]

I mean, if Rantiques Road show is in the area, I might invite her to that. So.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Perfect. Yeah, we'll see.

[B]

Okay. Anyway, so that's why I drink. I'm very excited. And then I guess people in the future when they're hearing this, might have more intel. But I'll.

[A]

I'll get there eventually on the Miley front. Yeah, true. I'm so excited to talk about Magic Spoon because I have discovered their treats. Okay, we talked about this. On the last ad where I hadn't even realized they'd arrived and I ran downstairs and I found them. They are so delicious. They're these. Okay, listen to this. High protein treats from Magic Spoon. They're crispy, crunchy, airy. They have 12g of protein. They have marshmallow flavor, chocolate, peanut butter, dark chocolate. They are so delicious and like the perfect thing in the morning when I kind of don't have an appetite and I need something to get me going and to take my meds and that kind of thing. That's probably not the angle they necessarily wanted me to take, but it really has become such a wonder to have Magic Spoon at the ready when I need to hop in the car and go. They also make, of course, high protein, zero sugar cereal and treats reinvented from your childhood. So much nostalgia. Em and I are big fans. Blaze has ordered Magic Spoon for years now. They're great on the go, pre or post workout, you know, even a midnight snack sometimes if I'm just hungry. Get $5 off your next order at magicspoon.com drink or look for Magic Spoon on Amazon or in your nearest grocery store. That's magicspoon.com drink for $5 off. Everything is getting more expensive. Okay. Everything. Dealing with money can be so stressful and it's something that I personally tend to put off because I just want to ignore it and ignore it and ignore it. Not smart. And that is why I love Rocket Money so much. Because trying to manage subscriptions, track spending, cut costs, it's, it's an overwhelming task. And Rocket Money is able to relieve some, some of that stress. So Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Rocket Money shows you all your expenses in one place, including subscriptions you forgot about. That has happened probably to all of us. And if you see a subscription you no longer want, I did this recently, you just click. Rocket Money will help you cancel it. Their dashboard lays out your total financial picture, including bill due dates, paydays, in a way that's easy to digest. This has been one of the game changing tools in my financial library, so to speak. I feel so much more confident with how I spend my money, how I save it, where it's going, and it's just, it gives you a lot of agency. And that's why I really do love Rocket Money. Rocket Money's 5 million users have saved a total of $500 million and canceled subscriptions with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocket money.com drink today. That's rocketmoney.com drink rocketmoney.com/drink.

[B]

Okay, here's something that you and your lungs will have to really, really gradually gasp to. Okay, this is an abduction case. A UFO abduction case.

[A]

Boy howdy.

[B]

It's in Poland and it's. His name is Jan Volsky. And the Emilian abduction. Good luck to me on pronunciation. So Yan is the character and Emilian is the town that this happened in. This is in 1978, by the way, can you hear my battery? My fire alarm battery?

[A]

Oh, that's probably why he's upset. Do you know that when Gio here's a smoke alarm battery, he will literally go into the smallest part of the house and like will not come out.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah, like he will hide, Hide. That might be what it is because that chirping noise apparently, I mean, for Gio at least it like, it's the one noise that will make him like completely lose his mind. Like I once found him like behind the toilet, like trying to get away from the sound. And I was like, what the hell are you doing in here?

[B]

That's probably it. And what are the odds? Why is that now setting off with like the whole I went out. Yeah, well, he's gonna have to deal with it. I don't know. Okay.

[A]

But no, I can't hear it.

[B]

Okay, cool. As long as no one else can hear it. That poor dog in a sensitive ears though. Okay, let's get into it. This is Jan Volsky, 1978, in a Milchin Poland. Jan is a 71 year old farmer and he has never changed his story. Just fun fact. Until he died, he. He never changed his story. So this morning he is driving his horse drawn wagon. Oh, yawn.

[A]

And.

[B]

And saw. He saw two beings standing near the road, walking the same direction as his cart was going.

[A]

It's got to be something to have the same cart, the same horse for decades. Probably you're just like doing the same thing. Seventy years, you know, same routine every single day. Small town Poland. And then all of a sudden there are these beings and you're probably like, all right.

[B]

It's like finally something to really change my. Yeah, this wagon and cart, she's honest work, but she's old, you know.

[A]

Oh yeah, she's got a. She's got a. She can make use of a little break here on the side of the road.

[B]

Well, so he sees these two beings, and at first, he thought they might be hunters because he was driving in the woods. These two random people are in the woods. And he soon noticed that they're. He was trying to get a look at them to see if they were hunters, and he noticed that their skin was green.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And he also noticed that they seem to be slowing down, as if waiting for Jan to catch up with them.

[A]

So they're walking.

[B]

They're walking the path, and they see that cart.

[A]

And then you know that thing where you're awkwardly, like, also slowing down, but then everyone's kind of really awkwardly slowing down, and it's like, am I supposed to pass you or. Oh, no.

[B]

And then you realize that they're slowing down on purpose.

[A]

And they're green.

[B]

And they're green. Yeah.

[A]

And your horse is probably like, what the is that?

[B]

The horse is like, I've been doing this for 70 years. I'm so tired.

[A]

Seriously, like, today. Not today. Not today.

[B]

So when he got closer to them, he also saw that they were walking oddly. He. It was as if their legs were too big for their body frame. Ew.

[A]

This is already, like, your last story. That freaky alien guy.

[B]

Which one?

[A]

Sandbound clown.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like. Like, awkwardly proportioned and stuff.

[B]

Yes. It was as if his legs were too big for his frame. And also, they were walking slowly because of it, as if they were scuba divers underwater.

[A]

They're not used to the gravitational pullover, actually.

[B]

That's so smart. You're right. I. I think maybe they're right. I'm telling you, lift their legs.

[A]

I'm telling you. I'm telling you. I'm a. I'm a. I'm a soothsayer. I know about Hank's anxiety. I know about these aliens and their big old legs.

[B]

I think you're totally right, by the way, because I've never seen him pacing like this. He must actually be like.

[A]

That noise really, like, gets Geo worked up. Is there, like, a button, or is it, like, a. I think I have.

[B]

To, like, take the whole thing off.

[A]

Is it. Do you have, like, an app for it, or is that the one thing in your house. Oh, my God. You have a dishwasher that's attached to your Internet but not a smoke detector.

[B]

Wow. Yeah, I don't. Unless. Unless I, like, take it apart and take the battery out. But then what?

[A]

It's weird that it's going off.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know. I just Remember that episode of Friends with Phoebe? And I'm like, honestly, I don't want to give advice.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I. Yeah, I feel like it's not going to help. I have an idea.

[B]

I think I'm going to open the door to the back so he can. Let him just go sit out there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Please hold.

[A]

Please stand by. We have to step away and go get my answer the door.

[B]

I gave him some frozen carrots to make his life a little better, baby.

[A]

Maybe that'll help me, too.

[B]

Frozen carrots?

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

I mean, give it a healing. Let's see. Okay. So they're walking as if their legs are too big and they're scuba divers. Well, once he caught up with them, the two beings split up on either side of the road so that the cart would have to drive between them.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Which now it's feeling like this is a plan of attack of, like.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Like you're surrounded.

[B]

They. Yeah. So he sees that he's about to have to walk between them. He, weirdly, is okay with this. He's like, I'm just gonna.

[A]

I mean, I guess it's probably, like, get past these weirdos.

[B]

How do you put a horse in reverse? Could he just do that?

[A]

Beep. That's what I assume. That's how I taught Leona. When she's doing a maze with a marker, she goes, oh, no. Because she hits a dead end. They go. And so now I hear her go, beep. When she reverses out of the dead end. So that's my only answer. I have absolutely no clue. I assume you have to do a halt, then turn somehow and do some sort of maneuvering.

[B]

Like, how big is the cart? How unwieldy is it? The cart?

[A]

That's right. Yeah.

[B]

Couldn't you just kind of yank the horse into it, like, to go back?

[A]

That's what you and I would do.

[B]

Yeah. I'd be like, get out of here. Or how is this horse not sensing a problem?

[A]

Yeah. The scuba divers, I don't know, maybe they know not to spook the horse.

[B]

Or maybe they're doing that thing where they put a calm over everyone.

[A]

Oh. Because they're both pretty calm, huh?

[B]

So he sees that he's about to get between these two creatures who are.

[A]

Now on either part of the road. Disengage your survival instincts, by the way. I think that's really up that they, like, put you at ease, because it's like, at least if someone's kidnapping you, like, you have your. You can. Like, in real life, you can have, like, your fight back, whatever, but it's like you put a fucking, like, spell over me. That's cheating. Like, that feels like I should be able to have my fight flight freeze moment.

[B]

It also makes me feel really stupid because I'm like, what are these survival instincts for if they can't help me?

[A]

What's the point, right? It's like, okay, I guess I'm a random maze. What else is new?

[B]

And also, it's weird that aliens can sense that they need to disarm that.

[A]

Well, they. Maybe they don't sense it. Maybe they've had bad experiences and been like, okay, we apparently need to sedate these rats before we pull them onto our. Because they really lose it once they get up here.

[B]

Well, okay, so he gets in between these two beings, and without any sign of it, they both just jump into his cart. It feels like. Like a. Like a. Like a car robbery or something.

[A]

Like a. Yeah, it feels like a poorly executed. I mean, I guess not, because they did just kind of do a little, like. I can't. I'm surprised they were able to jump anywhere.

[B]

I know.

[A]

With those big old legs.

[B]

Well, I think they just stepped in.

[A]

I think they were like.

[B]

I feel like they just went. They jump into the cart and they decide that they're. They don't even say anything to him. Nothing. They just get in the cart, they sit on the back, and they ride in the cart with him. Yawn. Seems way too calm about this part. In interviews, he has literally said they didn't seem dangerous, so he just let them hitch a ride. I'm like, they're green, babe. What are you talking about?

[A]

I mean, maybe there's some foreigners. I don't know, maybe some, like, explorers from another area. And he's like, who the hell are these weirdos?

[B]

Maybe he assumed that they had, yeah, green paint on because they're hunters and it's camo.

[A]

That's exactly where I. My brain went. I was like, maybe he thought it was, like, a tech tactic. I don't know, but to, like, hop on. But you're right. It must be some sort of mask they're putting over, like a calming.

[B]

Also maybe it's like, Yeah, I. I have to assume because unless it's, like, a cultural difference, I would still. Even if they weren't doing anything dangerous, I'd be like, why the are you on my car? And you didn't ask permission to be here?

[A]

Maybe that is. Maybe you're right. Maybe that is a cultural thing. Like, oh, well, we're Driving through the woods. Like, I guess it's kind of rude if you don't say anything, but sure, hop on.

[B]

I mean, it used to be a thing back in, like the 40s and 50s, right. That you would just like, sit on someone's bumper and they would just, like, you just hitch a ride, you know, Like.

[A]

Right. I feel like maybe it's. Maybe that's not weird. I. I guess I would wonder. I mean, he must have thought it was at least odd, but not maybe not like dangerous, you know?

[B]

I guess so. Also, like, male privilege, am I right? Because if we were driving all of a sudden, two beings that all just got on the car.

[A]

But that's what I'm saying. If they're disabling our. Our panic alert, it's like, that's not fair. I should be able to say horse, giddy up. You know, like, yee haw. Let's get out of here.

[B]

Well, so despite them apparently being tiny, the horse seemed to move noticeably slower with them on board, as if they were heavier than they seemed.

[A]

Their gravitation, I'm telling you.

[B]

And apparently, like, a horse can carry up to like 2 or 300 pounds or something. I mean, I guess a cart and a human being maybe, like, this was the final straw, you know, I don't.

[A]

Know how it works with wheels. I know, I know. The wheels are definitely making it easier. So I don't know.

[B]

That's a good point. Anyway, apparently the horse is like, whatever, I'm just gonna. I'm going home. And whoever's here is here.

[A]

Right.

[B]

While they're sitting there, these beings, Jan can hear them talking to each other. And he said that they were speaking in a short but very fast language that he couldn't understand.

[A]

Oh, a short, fast, like. Like that.

[B]

It's like you're there. Why is your skin turning green?

[A]

Here I come.

[B]

Why are your legs so freakish?

[A]

Oh, that's just genetic.

[B]

He also saw more of what they looked like because he had time to kind of eyeball them. And apparently this is what they looked like. It's kind of a long. A long description. Five feet, green skin. As we know so far, it's just like Cynthia Erivo in that one movie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Apparently they had webbed hands, and then they had a hump on their shoulders that looked like a blanket was, like, under their clothes.

[A]

Okay, weird. Okay.

[B]

Long but oddly thick legs, which we've discussed. Slanted and completely dark eyes. Oh, a thin mouth with no lips. No nose.

[A]

Reptilian. Reptilian. Reptilian.

[B]

Yeah. Because then the next thing is no nose, but a small bump and then openings for nostrils.

[A]

No.

[B]

And high cheekbones.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

And then these creatures were wearing tight yet seamless black hooded rubber suits covering their.

[A]

Hear about that seamless thing like that. They had seamless.

[B]

Every time.

[A]

Metal seamless clothing.

[B]

And it always hurts my feelings because like, we get it. Everything's better there. Okay.

[A]

It's like, okay, you don't have to solder. Congratulations. I think it's.

[B]

You don't need a melt. Okay.

[A]

Yeah, big whoop. Hinges are cool and decorative now if you buy them on Etsy.

[B]

So that's the main description of them. And he's driving this cart with them on it into a clearing in the woods. And this is where the beings motion him to stop.

[A]

Oh boy.

[B]

He goes into this clearing, stops the cart, and they look up and there is a round metallic UFO hovering in the sky. And apparently hovering in a way where you can see it oscillating between up and down to keep itself in one in one space.

[A]

So that's probably old time meat alien technology. Then they've got seamless, but they don't have that like completely stationary down yet.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. They're not still.

[A]

Sorry. Nice try.

[B]

As mentioned, the UFO was oddly smooth with no seams, had no windows, and it was as if the whole thing was made of one piece of metal. It cast no shadows on the trees and it had a shimmer to it as if it was nickel plated.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Jan later said this is a quote. It was the size of a medium sized bus and was entirely white and equipped with elements that whirled and buzzed.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Another quote is that at each corner of the object, about halfway up were four barrels with black rods running through them. I'm going to show you a picture in a sec. These rods spun rapidly and their motion produce a faint but constant hum. As he approached, the hum grew louder, resembling the buz buzzing of bees.

[A]

It's almost like a helicopter. Like, like the chopping buzzing sound.

[B]

Interesting. Yes. Yeah, like a helicopter. I'm trying. I'm trying to find myself and my text messages because.

[A]

Find myself. Wow, that's beautiful. Beautiful. If we, you know, if we make our Instagram one of those kind of inspirational ones, we could put like a little drop quote and just say like, I'm trying to find myself. I'm Schultz episode. Whatever.

[B]

Look, I just need to find myself. Yeah, okay. I'm sending you two pictures.

[A]

If I'm going like this, it's because I'm trying to breathe and I don't want to gasp into the camera area, into the microphone.

[B]

What? It sounds so miserable, what you're going through.

[A]

It's like, not a good time. But I don't want anyone to feel like I'm just, like, yawning and stuff.

[B]

I have a thing called propranolol that lowers my heart rate and a thing called Xanax that really calms me down. So if you ever need either of those.

[A]

Speaking of expired candy, I have probably propranolol from, like, 2005. So I might need to borrow yours.

[B]

It's. Oh, I feel like it would be.

[A]

Really good for this. I think that's what I was originally prescribed propranolol for. Because when I was. It was grad school at bu and I was. I would, like, stop breathing all the time to. Before presentations, I would get so freaked out. And it was like, not about anything important. It was like, that guy Paul Schneider's class, and I was like, I don't really care, but, like, my body is freaking out. And that's when they gave me propranolol for, like, my heart rate and my.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Pulse and sweating.

[B]

I, I what? I just saw my doctor today. He was like, okay, so how are, like, your medications? How's that going? And I was like, do not ever take me off propranolol.

[A]

Yeah, that one's got us. Remember when Blaze's mom was like, I don't understand. That's for beta blockers for heart patients. Beta block. And I was like, listen, I've been on this since 2000, whatever year we were in grad school. And I mean, not on it regularly, but, like, you know, have. And it was very helpful.

[B]

I mean, but between the stage fright and then actually ending up having heart problems, I was like, this is just a two for one situation.

[A]

Yeah, we gotta just. This is a staple in the old apothecary.

[B]

Yeah. I was like, there's. I told him today. I was like, if I ever tell you, take me off a pranalol. It's a test. Do not fail.

[A]

Like a dude, Christine has taken my brain over and is trying to, I don't know, get some for herself. We don't know.

[B]

It's like in spongebob when plankton has, like, the. I mean, that's literally.

[A]

I was like, being John Malkovich or spongebob are my only references for that concept.

[B]

Oh, man. Okay, so I'm going to send you two pictures of. One is a description of the alien that I just described. So you can see a picture of it if Anyone wants to see these pictures, you can just type in the Mealchin abduction. And they're, they're the first pictures that pop up. So the first one is a picture of the alien. The second picture is of the actual hovercraft. Or not actual hovercraft, but I guess a drawing of it because.

[A]

Oh my word. Oh my word.

[B]

I know, Isn't that nice?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay, I agree. It's. So how would you describe it? Because it's an interesting ufo. It's not a usual saucer.

[A]

It's a piece of an IKEA table.

[B]

Yeah. It looks like. It almost looks like a camper without its wheels. And then like some like steel bars.

[A]

You know, on each corner when you're connecting two pieces of furniture and they both have thread. It's like a long threaded screw with no head on the end. It's just two like open ended, one long screw. It's sort of like a camper with no wheels from the 70s with like these little almost handles on all four sides with the. Yeah, those like long screws. It looks like they have like threaded material. So if they're like spinning out like.

[B]

A. Yeah, like a threaded silver.

[A]

Yeah, so. So it's like going up and down on those screws. I bet.

[B]

Maybe. And also keep in mind they're whirling like it's as if they're like the screw is moving. Yeah.

[A]

So interesting early propeller type thing.

[B]

Yeah. Like it's. It's almost like. You know what it reminds me of those toys where you would have the handle and the two metal pieces and you'd have almost a Yo yo, but it was like, like a Yo yo on Metal Mars. And it would go.

[A]

Yeah, what are those?

[B]

I don't know. But it's almost like the UFO would be that on the two metal bars. Okay. Like no one knows what we're talking about.

[A]

We're doing such a bad hinged onto it.

[B]

Anyway, it's. It's a weird looking ufo.

[A]

People should draw what they're thinking, we are saying. And then we should compare it.

[B]

We should bring back. And that's why we draw. And it just.

[A]

I feel like, oh, good times.

[B]

So anyway, that's what he sees. And one source says that Jan's horses actually also got spooked by this and yawn. Couldn't control the horse. And then the alien grabbed the horse's reins and helped stop the cart. I don't love that.

[A]

And it's like, calm down little horse.

[B]

Even if he's just like a better cowboy than You. I'm like, I'm still offended, but, like, he.

[A]

Yeah, you can't even walk without looking like a buffoon. Okay.

[B]

So the aliens, then they. Like I said, they waved him to stop. They look up and see this ufo. They get off the cart, and they kind of motion for him to follow them to the ufo.

[A]

Come on, now. We're friends.

[B]

Come on. We go way back. All five minutes. He looked up at the UFO again, and he saw that there was a platform coming down from the ufo. And the platform had some, like, weird shimmery cables on it, I guess that connected it to the ufo. One of the creatures got onto the platform, motioned for Yawn to grab onto the cables and climb up onto the platform with him and Yawn did this. But he remembers not feeling any fear, but still feeling a sense of being hypnotized into obeying.

[A]

Okay, because I was like, that feels unreasonable, but all right.

[B]

By now I'd be like, no, I'm not. I dropped you off at your place, and now I'm going to my place. Thank you.

[A]

I'm really busy, actually. My horse and I have big plans.

[B]

He. Honestly, I think you were right earlier. I think maybe Yawn just, like, needed an interesting day because the way that he was handling this up until now, do it for the plot without feeling hypnotized. He was just like, sure, we're in. We're in this now.

[A]

Jan for sure did it for story time. You know, I get it. I get it, too.

[B]

So they get on the platform and remember there were two aliens. One of them is on the platform with him. Showed him to grab the cables, is just helping him onto the platform. Alien number two did not go up with them, but went back to the cart and seemed to be studying the horse. Okay.

[A]

I was like, what do they do with the horse? So I don't love that. I don't love, like, leaving a babysitter with the horse. No, I don't like that.

[B]

I'm like, is the horse safe? But also, I understand that they. Probably what they were talking about on the back of that car was like, okay, I'm gonna go for the human. You go for the horse. And that way we get two studies in one.

[A]

Right?

[B]

We gotta meet our quota by the end of the month.

[A]

One of them's got to stay on Earth, though.

[B]

Like, yeah, why did the horse come up?

[A]

Like, that's what I'm wondering.

[B]

How did they know that the horse wouldn't be willing, but the person would be. I don't know.

[A]

Maybe the Horse just has stronger survival instincts because it's a horse, and a human's easier to, like, manipulate. I don't know.

[B]

Maybe the horse is too big for the door.

[A]

Honestly, that's. That's. Well, think about how heavy they were. Maybe he'll be, like, 20 times heavier on this spacecraft, you know?

[B]

That's a great point, too. I do wonder, like, do aliens. Which. I don't wish this because I don't want to live in fear, but do aliens. Are they also interested in studying our pets and other animals? Because it seems like.

[A]

Think about, like, cow mutilations. I don't know if that's. And, like, where their. Their blood is fully drained and the organs go missing. So I would. I would bet. Yeah. But I would bet that's probably older science, so, like. Yeah, 70s maybe. I don't know. Know. I don't know how time works with them.

[B]

But isn't it interesting that an alien sees a cow, though, and goes, that one's for draining blood. And then sees a human and goes, that one's for probing, you know? Like, how does it.

[A]

Well, it's. Why is it one different Study rats. Because they're smarter than other animals. You know, we study apes and how they live. I feel like maybe it's. They're looking at us like a primitive species, you know, but, like, obviously higher on the food chain and more interesting than maybe a cow. No offense.

[B]

So the cow's listening.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Our bovine brothers.

[B]

So the platform rises up, and him.

[A]

And this alien are sans horse and.

[B]

Sans one of the aliens, Sands horse and researcher. And apparently the platform, the way it's moving up to the ufo. Yawn. Didn't feel it move at all, but knew that they were moving quickly. And the alien got on the craft, waved him inside. He stepped in, and he noticed that the walls also had no seams, no hinges, and yet once they were inside, the door rolled up into the wall.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I love that. You know, I want all cordless and just, like, no lines, no seams. Like, let's just clean it up.

[B]

You know, Just have things rolling up and down. Mm.

[A]

How beautiful.

[B]

Once they were camouflaged, once they were inside, Yan was in a plain black room with benches lining the walls. And apparently the walls felt like very thick glass.

[A]

Ooh.

[B]

Other than that, he said that there was no decor at all. Like, there was no furnishings. There was nothing. It was just an empty room.

[A]

Okay. I didn't want to go, like, way too far into the minimalist thing. Right. I just wanted to know seams. So I could put more pictures up.

[B]

But you would think the seamless would. Would add to what the.

[A]

Would automatically give way. But I guess, like, then you're like, well, where's the door? Because if I hang my photo, if I hang my prize spongebob poster here, and then, like, the door just rips in half. I'm gonna cry. That's gonna go all the way back to Earth and wait for another Miley Cyrus tour to get my poster. To get a new poster.

[B]

I don't think so. Amen. I. You would hope they would know where the door is. But also, what if, like, part of the technology is that the door can open anywhere? So it's like the whole wall is a door, so you can't put anything.

[A]

Just open a door there. Whoa. That's cool. Maybe that's. That's a really good point. Then you couldn't hang anything on the walls also, like, maybe they're like, that's what rats and dumb humans do. Maybe they're like, that's not a thing.

[B]

I. I mean, can you imagine if that is a possibility? And then they look at our decor and they're like, you have the door in one spot always. That's so lame.

[A]

You know, it's really sad. So primitive.

[B]

It's embarrassing, actually. You have to walk all the way over there.

[A]

I'm fully embarrassed. I will admit it. I don't want. I don't want cords. I'm sick of it.

[B]

You've had it.

[A]

I've had it up to here.

[B]

So he's in this plain room, very thick glass, like, walls. And he said that the floor was very polished. And then, weirdly, I don't know any more information on this. I know this is something that you probably want a lot more or no information on.

[A]

We want answers.

[B]

Apparently, they're were several birds lying on the floor, which they weren't.

[A]

What?

[B]

Dead. But they seemed paralyzed. Ew. I don't know what to do with that. And then all of a sudden, I'm like, thank God the horse sits downstairs. You know, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So they're in the room with him on the floor.

[B]

They're in the room just kind of scattered on the floor. Which, like, did the birds get in, like a fly or something? Like, did they accidentally just. Just crash in? Or did the. Were the birds studied and just left on the floor?

[A]

Interesting. I was thinking if the gravitation. But then he would feel different because I was like, maybe if they're studying the gravitation of Flying in, like, their. In their atmosphere. But I don't know, maybe that's just their study chamber. And they're like, just get. Put them in there with the birds. I don't know. That's so weird.

[B]

All I know is I'd be extra if I wasn't scared yet. Seeing a bunch of paralyzed animals on the floor.

[A]

Imagine if they weren't. If they weren't paralyzed and they were flying around.

[B]

Just go.

[A]

I mean, honestly, I think I was about to say this. It's like, shameful. But I think my first reaction be like, oh, thank God they're not moving. Like, I would be like, screaming, well.

[B]

You might be onto something. Because he said he knew they were paralyzed or he even said he was unsure if they were even paralyzed, but something was happening to them where they were kept from moving outside of their head. So, like, it was almost like they were in some sort of trance where they were also stuck so that way they wouldn't bother anybody. Like, it weird. Yeah, it was a very weird, like, random thing that only a few sources even brought up. So in here, there were two more aliens, similar to the previous two, and they spoke in hand gestures, and they motioned for him to take his clothes off. And as he did, one of the beings actually began to help him take his clothes off. I guess he wasn't doing it fast enough.

[A]

And seriously, like, you don't even know how you. Your pants are billow. Are giant balloons. So go away.

[B]

You're in a scuba gear. Excuse me. Yeah, so they took his clothes off, and the other aliens had what looked like plates, but they ended up vibrating. So they're like these vibrating discs, and they had them on their hands, almost like, like wearing them like a glove or like suction cup to their hands, but two plates, one for each hand. They were vibrating. One source said they also made a weird clicking sound, but then they just kind of put them on Yawn's body and kind of rub them around. Almost like they were like a portable scanner.

[A]

Whoa. Sound frequency.

[B]

Or like a tambourine or kind of. But also a lot of people.

[A]

Not tambourine. I'm sorry, A symbol. I meant.

[B]

Yeah, I. I knew what you meant. I gotcha. I. I think a lot of people have also compared this to stories where people said that they felt like they were getting a weird X ray.

[A]

Okay. Okay. Yeah. So like some sort of scanning device, something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They moved the plates all around all parts of his body, including, like, under his arms and, like, every nook and cranny and Every time they got one side of his body, the other creatures would then rotate, yawn, one source said, as if they were, like, posing him for a mug shot so they could get the other side.

[A]

So it's like when they do your dental X rays, and they're like, all right, like, now we're gonna move this here and stand still, and, like, we'll put this big metal thing on or, like, apron on you. So weird. And you're like, I don't know what's happening, but okay.

[B]

Well, they never held him down or anything. Nothing felt particularly uncomfortable other than being naked next to a bunch of paralyzed birds in the sky.

[A]

Sorry my tongue is all red from that candy, but that is a w. Failed statement. Nothing was too uncomfortable, aside from standing naked with two aliens and a bunch of dead birds. Oh, Lord have mercy.

[B]

Let's put it this way. He's handling it in a way that even if they put me under a trans, I would not be handling.

[A]

I was gonna say, even if they disabled your fight flight or freeze, I think you would find a way to, like, hit the override button.

[B]

It's kind of like what I get.

[A]

When they got to your armpits, you would completely override.

[B]

I'm so glad you said it, because I was trying not to mention my armpits one more time.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

But I did think it. I was like, ab. If they L lifted my arms, I'd go, you better put it down.

[A]

This is where. Where I finally draw the line.

[B]

I was gonna say, it's kind of like when I give Hank the max dosage of Trazodone to take him to the doctor, and then he. He will fight it. It's as if there's no Trazodone in his system. That would be me under a trance on this ufo.

[A]

If they try to touch my armpits, Try me. My adrenaline can outdo anything you can put in my system.

[B]

I would wake up so quick, I don't care what they've done. So they. They never held him down or anything. It was like. That was as invasive as it got.

[A]

Which is invasive enough to me, thank God, at least. Yeah.

[B]

But after they did this, Jan was then gestured by the aliens to get dressed again, which I would have gone, oh, that. That's it. Okay, great, great, yes. I'll put my clothes on.

[A]

And they would have gone, well, let us think. And I'd go, no, no, you were right the first time.

[B]

I said nothing before they finished. The aliens did seem particularly interested in. They were looking at like all of his clothes that they took off of him. They were really interested in his belt and apparently they kept undoing it and then redoing it and then commenting to each other about it.

[A]

Shut up. So it's like how. I'm sorry I keep making these comparisons, but it's like on the Good Place when Michael's like fascinated by paper clips, he's like, it's a fascinating. Like a piece of metal that holds two papers together. You know, I feel like if you think about it, yeah, it's pretty interesting a belt, how that works if you've never seen it.

[B]

I mean, we know that. I love a living history museum and anytime I can like see in real.

[A]

Time, like old petticoats, combs, or things people use, like mirrors and. Yeah, it's like, fascinating.

[B]

What are they called? Garters. Like the sock holders and the arm sleeve holders. I'm always like, wow. So they would just put this here. Okay. And then they would have a little.

[A]

Clip seed wear and. Oh, my.

[B]

Yeah, So I imagine that's what they were doing. They were like, look at this old technology.

[A]

And I wonder if it. Yeah. And I wonder if it was like the belt where the. The. It has a buckle and the. The tooth thingy goes in or if it was one of the kinds where you put it through two hooks or two loops and like pull.

[B]

It couldn't have been that because they even. I don't know how to do that. There's no way an alien figured that.

[A]

I to this geometry is far too complex for anyone to understand.

[B]

I used to know back in my American Eagle days. May she rest in peace. I don't know if you've heard the controversy on that.

[A]

No. What happened?

[B]

Oh, I can't even get into it.

[A]

Let's just say it feels like a tick tock thing. I should.

[B]

Eugenics propaganda.

[A]

Oh, of course. I've seen that. Yeah. She's all. She's. She's. I'm like a man in that way where she's instantly on my like FYP because I just can't not look at her. And so it's like, it's. I feel gross every time because I'm.

[B]

Like, well, good, now you can feel really gross.

[A]

Oh, I did, I did, I did. It's not cute. It's not cute at all.

[B]

Back in the day because.

[A]

And then they doubled down on it and it was like, all right, I.

[B]

Will say, what was it? That was American Eagle. What was the one that just someone came out. Was it Abercrombie or Hollister.

[A]

Some.

[B]

Some. I should know what it is. But some company. Some company did a. They reacted to it by putting out their own jeans commercial where it was, like, all inclusive and everything. It was, like, great pr. Good for them.

[A]

Was a gap. I feel like they're on a big kick right now.

[B]

No, what was I. What the hell was I talking about? Belts.

[A]

Oh, what is her name?

[B]

Sydney Twee.

[A]

Yeah, man.

[B]

I was gonna say, the last time I ever had to use a belt like that was in my American Eagle days when, like, it was a. A canon event for a lot of baby queers in the closet to wear those plaid shorts all the time.

[A]

Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

[B]

They came with those belts.

[A]

Big deal. And those were peak or peak Abercrombie? Peak.

[B]

All of us. Anyway, so they were very fascinated by his belt and then gave it back, which is nice.

[A]

I would have probably nice.

[B]

Snatched it if I was.

[A]

Maybe they, like. Maybe they can do cool things, like replicate it in their brain or something, you know, like, take a photo in their head.

[B]

Or they saw it and they were like, why would we ever use this?

[A]

They were like, this is embarrassing. Take it back. Give it back to him. Yeah. So during this, like, hold your pants up, please.

[B]

My favorite thing that happened in this interaction, though, is while he was getting dressed, he noticed that one of the aliens had brought out a snack and was eating something that looked like an icicle, but then broke it, broke off a piece and offered it to him. And Jan went, I'm good. Which, like, no, of all the things you're weirdly okay with, why wouldn't you get alien food?

[A]

Infrared skin system going on. And you're not gonna try the cool alien icicles from outer space?

[B]

Like, it's. It looked like. It seems like he was eating it. Like it was a cracker or something I would want to eat.

[A]

It's like a rocket pop, but, like, on steroids.

[B]

I guess, like, in hindsight, I'd be like, now it's got a tracker or it's gonna kill me because it's like I'm. It's toxic to me. I don't know. But I would still. If that's how I die, what a cool way to die.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, oh, he ate an icicle. But he was no longer in the nude. That's important, you know, don't worry.

[B]

They gave him his belt back first.

[A]

His belt was back on. It's all above board. And then he ate the icicle. I mean, I'm curious. I'm super curious at me too, but.

[B]

Oh, well, afterwards, Jan reported getting a big whiff of sulfur, which apparently stuck in his nose and on his body for a few days after the incident.

[A]

And lastly, I was just, like, eating rotten eggs.

[B]

No, I think, like, he realized that they smelled like sulfur.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

I think lastly, the aliens did a quick mouth check. Just went open up. Ah. And then they escorted him back to the door they came in through. And on his way to the door, Jan noticed another alien doing something in the hall where he would take this black tube, stick it into a hole in the wall, turn it like a key, and then pull it out and put it in a different hole in the wall and do the same thing over and over again.

[A]

Oh, weird. It's like a pattern. Like a code, I guess.

[B]

I don't know, know. Or he was trying to look like he was not bored. He was, like, trying to look busy before the boss came.

[A]

Oh, just, like. Just, like, tedious. Tedium.

[B]

Yeah. So Jan was probably on the UFO for under 15 minutes. And once on the exit platform, he didn't know what to do, so he bowed.

[A]

And that is so all of us. That is all of us. That is how we would react.

[B]

Well, they matched his social anxiety because they bowed back.

[A]

Oh, they're like, let's do the human thing, I guess. Copy him.

[B]

Oh, look at him. Him with his one door per room.

[A]

His one door is one belt.

[B]

So the platform took him back down to the ground. One source said that he. It didn't take him all the way down, so he had to, like, awkwardly jump, like, off the platform onto the ground.

[A]

And the horse is probably out of there.

[B]

No, the two aliens. There were two aliens who watched him walk back to his cart and horse. So they did keep an eye on his horse for him, which is nice. And then the UFO flew away. And when Jan got back on the horse, he went home. He told his family about what happened.

[A]

I'm sorry. Every time it just, like, jumps to. And then he told everyone what happened. It's like, I need a literal play by play of every person in that room. Like, I wish I had. Like, what did your daughter say? What did your wife say? Like, please tell me. I wish they gave more detail.

[B]

Well, I saw one. Only one article say that he actually slept for several hours before telling them what happened, which I think is kind of consistent with other people's abductions, where they just, like, have to sleep forever.

[A]

Like, rest. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And I wonder if that's because if there's ever, like, A lapse in time, maybe. They've been up for like 48 hours and now they're.

[A]

You don't even feel it till you're back. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Well, so he. He. At some point, he tells his wife, he wants to tell his sons, and so he runs to tell his sons. He tells them, come with me. I want to show you where we saw the UFO or where I saw the ufo. The neighbors hear about this, so they come with him and his sons, and eventually this small little group in their neighborhood are all with him in the area where the UFO was. Was. They get to the area and they found in three different places, rectangular shaped footprints in the ground. And then.

[A]

Oh, they found Sam the sand down clown again.

[B]

I know. They found rectangular footprints. One of the footprints they found was actually right underneath where the UFO was. Like, as if they were walking to the ufo.

[A]

Okay, so it wasn't from the. For some reason, for a minute I thought it was the ufo, but then I remembered they had those. Those pegs. So these are their footprints, basically.

[B]

I thought the same thing, that it would have been like the feet of the ufo.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But no, it seemed as if they were footprints walking on the road where.

[A]

They can't walk if they have square feet or rectangular feet. Like, they got a great point, you know, and then you have to lift your foot up like this.

[B]

It's a great point, actually.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Yeah. No, they found them by the road where, like, they jumped onto the cart and they found them in that clearing where the UFO boat was. Like, oh, weird.

[A]

Okay, okay. I'm glad they checked.

[B]

They also found crops in nearby uprooted and what looked like soil samples that had been taken. One source also said that the group found black feathers but no birds in the area. When they looked at the area where the horse and cart had been waiting for him to come back because, remember, the horse was just chilling there.

[A]

There.

[B]

They looked at where the horse had been hanging out, and it looked like the horse had been grazing for over two hours, even though Jan thought he'd only been there for like 10, 15 minutes.

[A]

Wow. So it really does that, like, weird hyperspeed. That's so freaky. So, yeah, they've got probably. Maybe it's not even the altitude for their. Or the atmosphere. Maybe it's like time. Like they have to adjust how they walk because, like, oh, yeah, their sense of time is different.

[B]

Christine, you're like, I can't confirm any of this, but everything you're saying, it sounds so smart to me.

[A]

Like someone out there is probably like she's literally the D first.

[B]

No, that makes total sense that if you move at hyperspeed and now all of a sudden you're moving like you're walking through molasses. Like you're probably trying to figure out walking at a certain speed feel really strange or like how gravity, how we can feel that pressing on us. They can maybe feel time pressing on them. And so they're like, they feel like they're walking in slow moving. That's such a good point. You're so smart.

[A]

I'm, I'm. Listen, I'm just trying to be smarter than the other rats in the lab because I really don't want to get, I don't want to get beamed up, you know, I'm not really feeling it.

[B]

So only two months later, Jan was interviewed by journalists on the encounter. And this led to much more interest in the case later. But originally the interview was actually kept pretty private because this was in the 70s in Poland and I guess the Soviet Union had still had some pretty rigorous rules.

[A]

Oh yeah.

[B]

Around what could be publicized. So this all, all the information about this ended up kind of showing up.

[A]

Oh yeah. Probably because people were like, oh my God, this is some sort of spy.

[B]

That's one of the theories is that like maybe this was a government situation. But anyway, so when people, I mean.

[A]

That tracks with the inefficiency and with like the, you know, like subpar tools and, and forethought. So I guess, yeah, well, so when.

[B]

They, when it finally kind of broke and people started hearing about this, the rest of the town and bigger areas, they, they heard about this incident and police and ufologists started coming in to investigate. So the police determined it was probably a hoax, of course, or they thought that Yan must have been dreaming, hallucinating, or was drunk and confused. And then the counter theory is like, well, these cops were probably still loyal to the Soviet Union and they just wanted to put an end to end.

[A]

Any crazy stuff, any nonsense.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, there was some weird back and forth. I ended up on like communist regime blogs and I was like, oh my God.

[A]

Okay, fun.

[B]

So yeah, the police like were not much help. Despite all that though, most of the town immediately, without question, just believed. Yawn. Because he was known to be such a solid, honest, no nonsense guy. I mean he's a 70 year old farmer.

[A]

Like he's not, it's like, why today, why would he choose today to just like uproot everything? He, you know, everybody's opinion of him, his reputation, it just Seems like a wild thing to do.

[B]

Yeah. Other theories were that Yawn was being pranked, so maybe he was innocent and someone else was pranking him. That's.

[A]

I mean, that's quite a prank.

[B]

Elaborate prank.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or like you said earlier that he maybe misidentified a helicopter because of the buzzing sounds, which I don't buy that, but it's interesting that you mentioned helicopter earlier.

[A]

Yeah. I think that was just the idea of the hovering type thing. Motion. It felt like a type of helicopter.

[B]

Well, you're not the only person to say the word helicopter with these theories. I guess he's. But anyway, after the police investigated one of the first ufologists in town or came to town to interview him, I.

[A]

Was like, one of the first in town. How many are there? I guess maybe he spawned a movement. Okay.

[B]

No, this is he. He came to town to interview him and his name was Dr. Vajarnik Varjonic. After he showed up, another researcher came to town called Dr. Blania. So there's Varjarnic and Blania. Just for you to remember these names. There's. There's only two names that are coming your way, but just Blania.

[A]

Blania. That's what I said.

[B]

And immediately Blania interviews locals, all the locals he can. He tries to find any credibility where he can. He reaches out to other townspeople if they saw anything.

[A]

Thing.

[B]

He's taken this super seriously. And part of it is because I guess Dr. Blania hadn't really had his big break yet in UFO research. And so I think he saw this as an opportunity since he was one of the first people on the ground.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He was like, I'm gonna make myself like one of the first experts of this.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, that's kind of cool. I would want that guy on my case. Yeah.

[B]

Someone with a. An ax to grind.

[A]

Yeah. Someone who likes something to prove.

[B]

Something to prove.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So.

[A]

And an ax to grind, that would be cool, too.

[B]

Despite there being no physical evidence because the UFO was gone, there was maybe like, you know, some uprooted crops like we were. It was really slim pickings on the physical evidence. Dr. Blania did say he did multiple physical and mental tests on Yawn and deemed him sound of mind. Especially because Yawn never sought out any money or fame for this and actually, in fact, regretted telling the public.

[A]

Yes, this always happens.

[B]

So that made his story seem more authentic. So if it were up to Blania, he was saying, this is the real deal. Blania even found a six Year old in town who claimed that they saw the UFO the same morning as Yan's abduction. The kid said that he even saw a pilot in the UFO who was wearing black clothes and had green skin.

[A]

See also I wondered about the horse. I was surprised. For two hours nobody saw the. Passed by and saw the alien. But then I'm like, maybe they can like cloak themselves or something. I don't know.

[B]

That's a great point. Yeah, you would think the even. Either people would see the horse or the horse would get spooked after two hours and just walk away.

[A]

Something like that. Or see the alien like tending to the horse or wonder where its owner went.

[B]

Well, Blania also, throughout the years did several interviews about the investigation. He did make himself the lead, lead person on this case. He wrote books about it. So he definitely got a. A notoriety with this case.

[A]

Like his, his big break.

[B]

Yeah. Well, this became one of Blanio's biggest cases he covered. And this is where I tell you that in 2013 his. The story came back because in, in 2013, someone named Bartos Rodolski decided to write a book about the subduction. It had been a long time that anyone had even written any content on this. So he wanted to get as much, much research done as possible and then write a book about it and figure out in today's world what the. What really happened.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So the book in English is called Secret Operations of the Polish People's Republic and UFOs.

[A]

No.

[B]

And it is not a government. Oh, saying I thought so too. And I saw that cover, I went, okay, so this was a government hoax.

[A]

It sounds like it. I was excited to hear how the hell they came up with rectangle footprints. But.

[B]

So basically this Bartos guy, he writes this book in 2013 and in his research, Research, he was so determined to make sure that he got as much information as possible on the case that he even used Dr. Blania's old reports that I guess when Blania died, his sister inherited his. His notes. So this guy writing the book, he bought them off of the sister and said, oh, interesting. I want to use as much information as I can. Up until that point, only Blania's family had ever seen this paperwork. So in the book, Barto says that from what he figured out in Blania's notes, the abduction, although maybe, maybe it was real to you. Yawn. It was a planned hoax.

[A]

What?

[B]

Apparently there was some drama in the ufology research world. Remember I told you before Dr. Blania, there was another Guy Verjonic, who came to town. Apparently, Verjonic and Blania are frenemies.

[A]

I knew it.

[B]

And Blania and Verjonic at some point made a bet where Vertronics or Blondia said, hey, Verjonic, I could. I bet I could hypnotize you and make you, like, think, like, a crazy story. And I. I bet it would work. And Verjonic was like, I doubt that. Well, they ended up doing it. Verjonic got hypnotized on a bar bet. Basically. He did, in fact, have all these false memories and was super embarrassed. So in retaliation.

[A]

Oh, oh, oh, okay. Sorry. Go on one.

[B]

You. I can re.

[A]

Explain. I think I get it. I think I get it.

[B]

They. The two of them had a bar bet of, like, I bet I could get you hypnotized. And the other one said, no.

[A]

Oh, okay. So he. And he, like, ended up falling or, like, hands up, susceptible to it. Yeah.

[B]

He ends up getting hypnotized, and he was super embarrassed about it. So he was like, I'm gonna get Blania back. And so he planned Ax to grind. He. He did have an ax to grind the whole time. So Veronic actually found Yawn. I don't know how he. I don't know why he picked Yawn. I don't know if it was just, like, the first person he saw. I don't know how this came to be. But the story now goes that Verjonic hypnotized Yawn to believe he was abducted by aliens.

[A]

What?

[B]

And then let the story sensationalize itself, knowing that Blania would run to investigate it because he was looking for his big break in the UFO world.

[A]

What? Okay.

[B]

And once the story was juicy and enough for Jonic was going to tell the world that Blon was claiming to be the lead expert of a case that was a hoax and that he fell for this and was telling every. The whole world that this is the real deal, even though he.

[A]

That's like a up Prank. First of all, so mean on so many levels. Like, you hypnotize some guy.

[B]

Yeah. You're just using him to, like, to discredit somebody who's trying to make it at least.

[A]

Like, what do you. What's happening happening?

[B]

So Jan truly and to this day, still believes it really happened.

[A]

I mean, listen, so this is just a book saying that the notes make it clear. So.

[B]

In theory, this is just another big theory, but this is one based off of actual notes from Blanio. But then.

[A]

And do. Do the notes say like this? I'm so embarrassed. I don't want to. Is the implication like he was too embarrassed to admit it? I don't know.

[B]

I don't even know what that's also.

[A]

Like how did it even.

[B]

But you're.

[A]

That's a humiliate him if it ever came out.

[B]

That's a great point though. Like in his own notes there. And they will be incredibly biased of like, oh, well, this is just a theory that it's a hoax, but it's only because blah, blah, blah. So like this might not even be real, but as of 2013, this is. This has certainly discredited the story for a lot of people.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So he basically just wanted to make his quote, friend look like a fool in the UFO community because he got.

[A]

Embarrassed, like really up. Up.

[B]

That being said, here's the thing. He. That was his whole plan of like, I'm going to let this, this story get huge and then I'm going to embarrass him publicly and tell everyone that he was vouching for a story that I concocted with my bare hands. But I guess he picked the wrong town because all of them, the whole town knew Yawn. And trusted and loved him so much that even when I guess Verjonic tried to tell everyone it was a hoax, the town was like, no. Like, yawn.

[A]

Oh, wow. So his, his plan like literally backfired. Literally backfired and he became. Wow. Okay.

[B]

So he maybe created this entire story just for everyone to still believe. Yawn.

[A]

I mean, so I'm glad that Jan wasn't super psychologically distraught about this experience. A, because he seemed like he was all right afterwards. B, if he believed it and everyone believed it, hopefully he wasn't like, you know, made a fool of or felt ashamed or embarrassed or anything.

[B]

I don't think I, I hope he didn't.

[A]

Yeah, I feel like this had potential to go very wrong for a bunch of people I know.

[B]

And it was also found in the notes later that like the six year old who claimed he also saw the ufo, that was like a stretched truth. Like so it just. It's all kind of messy and it.

[A]

Like kind of fell apart.

[B]

Yeah, it kind of fell apart, but nope, everyone's still like, you know what? Jan believes it and we believe it.

[A]

I mean, the detail in it too. I guess if a ufologist is. Is hypnotizing you and feeding you information. Because I was thinking like a lot of this is so specific and you hear about the seamless and the. So I was wondering. But then I guess, yeah. If you're being fed this information about someone who studies you have ufos. Wow. Holy smoke. What do you think? Do you have a. Do you have a thought one way or the other?

[B]

I have no idea. I mean, I guess I have to.

[A]

Read that book because I'm like, I don't. I want to know what the. What?

[B]

Yeah, I agree.

[A]

What the evidence is that it was actually a hoax for real. And it sounds like he has evidence. I just. I would be curious to hear what those journals said.

[B]

Well, even though that happened back in the 70s and Yana isn't even here anymore, it's still considered the most famous UFO abduction case in Polish history. And it's.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

The most notable. And the same year that that happened, a documentary about the abduction came out called A Visit or on the Threshold of Mystery. And that was within the same year, so people were already very interested in what Jan had to say. There have been other documentaries and books about the incident since. And even this year, there's a Netflix series that came out called Project UFO. That's. That's inspired by the Emilchin incident. In 2005, there was a memorial put up near a milch in Poland to honor the UFO abduction. But. Oh, and then it also said the inscription on it says, On May 10, 1978, in a Milchin, a UFO object landed, and the truth will astonish us in the future. And fun fact, it's Poland's only UFO memorial, which I can't imagine there was going to be a lot, but it's the only one. And nearby is also a sculpture. I'll send you, actually, a picture of both sculptures.

[A]

Okay. I'm so intrigued.

[B]

Nearby there, the sculpture in honor of the ufo, which is the one I just sent you, there's another sculpture of one of the aliens. See, you can take a selfie with the alien.

[A]

Oh, fun.

[B]

And it just looks like a little green guy.

[A]

Gosh, that's hilarious. And those little rectangle feet.

[B]

Because it happened on May 10. May 10 is now a day where every year people in the area will, like, go and, like, celebrate near these memorials. And they've even put in a time capsule here that's supposed to be opened in a thousand years.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

I looked at up what goes in the time capsule. I couldn't find anything. What?

[A]

Okay. I love this guy holding a. You see how he has a cloth?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because he pulled it off. He revealed the. The sculpture. Oh. For the cameraman and all the audience so, so cool.

[B]

Look, his little rectangle feet.

[A]

I love the feet. They crack me. I mean, he's really scary looking. Yeah, like the black eyed kid nonsense and all that. I don't know.

[B]

I mean, imagine two of those walking next to you. Your cart.

[A]

No want to.

[B]

And you have the nerve to say, oh, they're obviously just hunters. Like, yeah, human.

[A]

Like part of me wants to say I hope it's a hoax so that he was in on it or whatever, but it sounds like even then he was. He was tricked too.

[B]

100.

[A]

It's not a good look.

[B]

Anyway, that's the Emilchin incident.

[A]

Wow. I've never heard of that. Good job. I know this seems impossible, but shopping and planning for groceries for the week actually can be simple and stress free. And as someone who's discovered that, fine. Finally in my 30s, I need to share the love. Imagine having your weekly cart filled for you with personalized picks, then shipped right to your door. Taking all that work off my plate is why I love Hungry Root. I love how personalized it is. So whether you're dairy free, gluten free, high protein, focused on gut health, whatever it is, they have this smart cart technology where it recommends groceries and even supplements tailored to your needs like, and as you use it, it starts learning more and more about what kind of foods and supplements you're looking for. And it's just cool. They also hold all their food to high standards. They screen out over 200 additives like high fructose corn syrup, preservatives, artificial sweeteners. Great news for me, I am allergic. It's just really, really cool. They also have some great brands that I've learned about through Hungry Root and through getting boxes from them. They take the stress out of grocery shopping and I just love them. Take advantage of this exclusive offer for a limited time, get 40% off your first box. Plus get a free item in every box for life. Go to hungryroot.com drink and use code drink. That's hungryroot.com drink drink code drink to get 40 off your first box and a free item of your Choice for Life. Hungryroot.com Drink Code Drink okay, so it's been a little while since I've paid rent, but I'm a little bit sad because I didn't have built back when I paid rent. And I feel like I would have thrived with something like built. Nobody wants to pay rent, of course, but if you have to, built makes it worth it. Built is revolutionizing how millions think about paying rent by rewarding. Their members with points and exclusive benefits around their neighborhood every single day, single month. By paying rent through Built, you earn flexible points that can be redeemed toward hundreds of hotels and airlines, a future rent payment, your next Lyft ride, and more. But it doesn't stop there. Built is about making your entire neighborhood more rewarding. You can dine out at your favorite local restaurants and earn additional points, get VIP treatment at certain fitness studios and enjoy exclusive experiences just for Built members every month. Built is turning a monthly expense into an opportunity to earn rewards and discover the best that your neighborhood has to offer. Offer your rent is finally working for you. Earn points on rent and around your neighborhood, wherever you call home, by going to joinbuilt.com drink that's J-O-I-N B I L T.com drink. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. How's our baby doing?

[B]

He's a little panicked, but I think you were totally right about the like.

[A]

It hit me because that really is. And at Westchester they were always like, we have ones now. I think the reason we did it through an through. We do. We are sorry. Ours are Google. Like Google home and it's because they're like 14ft off the floor. Like, because they're. We have really high ceilings. And I was like, I'm not going to be changing batteries. Like so now it tells you in the app and you can like, it makes it easier. But yeah, the Westchester with all the old. And they were all different. They all had different fucking batteries and buttons and they would always be going off and Gigi would just like hide in.

[B]

I wonder why. Does it hurt their ears, you think? Because it's so high pitched.

[A]

So high pitch. And I think it scares them. Like I think they like don't know what it is and it startles them and I think they're like, please make that. It's like a little zap, I think to their brain.

[B]

Yeah, okay.

[A]

It took me a while to figure out, but there are other sounds that make Gio do that too. Certain text tones. Like one or two certain text tones. He will get up. I've noticed. He gets up and leaves the room and leaves the floor war that we're on. Like, he will not be near it. Yeah, it's really bizarre.

[B]

It's like when we were in middle school and we had that like mosquito text tone that like.

[A]

Oh yeah, horrible.

[B]

Only we could hear it, but teachers couldn't.

[A]

Oh, that's actually really great.

[B]

Yeah, I felt really Cool. But then it was still, like, an annoying ass sound.

[A]

It's a horrible sound. It's like a chirping. Yeah, yeah, it's like that. Like. Anyway. Yeah, I'm trying to remember. It was the slack sound. I remember when I downloaded it, like, whatever. Auto. So pinged. When you got a slack message on your computer, like, Gia would literally bolt with his tail between his legs. It's the weirdest thing.

[B]

So weird. Okay, well, thanks for warning me, because I was like, what the is wrong with you? He just kept pacing, and he had, like, the airplane ears.

[A]

Yeah, they hate it. And their tails go between their legs. It's, like, sad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. All right. Are you ready for a crime?

[B]

I'm always ready for a crime.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I really. I'm telling you, no, no pressure, but that one last week was so good.

[A]

What was it again?

[B]

It was a mystery. I remember really enjoying it.

[A]

I'm just like, oh, yes, I do recall vaguely.

[B]

Me too. It was good. It was a good one. So I'm. I'm excited for another.

[A]

Folks, I promise, there has been a stomach bug and a. A weekend and a lot of. Lot of events between the last time we recorded. I promise. This is. I apologize. Okay. Everything feels like a blur. You know what I mean? All right, this one is, Interestingly, I thought 1978 like yours, but 1976. So we're in the same time frame, but we are not in Europe. We are in North Carolina. Very, very rural North Carolina. Oh, I want to tell you the name of the story. It's the. The. I'm just gonna say the Bishop family for now.

[B]

Okay. Bishop family for now.

[A]

So on March 2, 1976, a forest ranger was working in an observation tower in a remote wooded area of North Carolina when he suddenly noticed smoke billowing out of the trees. And this is a very rural area. He immediately reports a fire, and he rushes to the scene where he discovers what looks like a shallow grave. Grave.

[B]

Oh, damn.

[A]

But it's hard to assess the whole scene. Of course, the fire is still going on, so he has to wait for the fire to be put out. And when it is, first responders can see there are two women laying in the shallow grave. They were badly burned, but the remains appeared to belong to a young woman and a much older woman. So the authorities began the process of, you know, protocol, moving the women from the scene. And as they removed these two women from the scene, they realized the grave was deeper than it had initially appeared.

[B]

I don't go back to the last weeks. I don't like.

[A]

I know. I'm already like. I. My brain has switched into this mode.

[B]

You really buttered me up last week, and now you're like, okay, now feel miserable.

[A]

Oh, my God. I asked if you read it. You said you were.

[B]

I thought. I thought, I thought.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Sorry, girl.

[B]

One day we'll be okay.

[A]

Are you sure? Oh, I got it. That's been bugging me all day.

[B]

That's so impressive, Christine. I've never been able to just do that.

[A]

Well, it. I've done this, like, 10 times today, and it hasn't worked, so I feel like I'm skeptical.

[B]

Everything you do blows me away.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

For the better or worse of my life.

[A]

Yeah, I was gonna say that's. That means a lot. Okay, so they move these. Beneath the women's remains, there's this young woman and an older woman. Beneath the women's remains are three children.

[B]

Christine.

[A]

I know, I know. It's horrendous, okay? They find three children. They're all boys, wearing pajamas, and they're wrapped in bed sheets and a tarp. And their bodies are not as badly burned as the women's are. And the resemblance between the boys was so strong that they could. Could tell immediately that they were related. So, of course, this is, like, doubly shocking, right? The murdered women were already a shock, and now they're finding children. And this is a very, you know, kind of remote area, and so this is the last thing they expected. So they scour the surrounding area for anything that might identify the victims, because at this point, they don't even know who they are.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

They find a gasoline can from Sears. It has, like, a tag on it that says. Or a sticker that says it's from Sears. And a shovel with a hardware store label. Label on the handle. Unfortunately, though, despite finding the gasoline can and the shovel, there was no. Nothing at the scene that could help them identify who these people actually were. And so instead, police started looking for any missing persons reports in the area. I mean, you'd imagine like, a whole missing family. Basically, yeah. All ages. Like, somebody would have reported this. But no case in the area matched, so they extended the search for missing persons in the state of North Carolina. And even then, there were no reports that matched their victims.

[B]

And. Sorry, I. Maybe you already said this. Did we check that all of these people are related to each other? I know the three boys are obviously.

[A]

Brothers, but we don't even know that they're brothers yet. So they've. They've opened this grave They've seen that the three boys look similar. They look like they're related. It's. It seems clear that they're related, but they don't know how and they don't know know who. Like, the dynamics of the whole group. Because my.

[B]

My first thought was, like, maybe I was assuming the three boys would be their own group, and then, like, maybe the other two women, like, maybe it was just like a dump site for everybody, you know?

[A]

Right. So that. That's kind of what they're wondering. They're wondering, like, are these children missing from a separate family? You know, like, what's the connection here? And so they've checked the state of North Carolina, no matching report. And they take a look at the evidence again that they collected at the scene, including the shovel. And when they look at the shovel and its label, they follow this to a hardware store 300 miles away in Potomac, Maryland.

[B]

What?

[A]

Okay, I know. Then they're looking at the victims themselves. And one of the women's clothes led them to a store in Chevy Chase, Maryland, which was only 10 miles away from the hardware store. Store. So now they're starting to ping closer to where these people actually came from. They contact investigators in Maryland, who also failed to match any missing persons reports to the boys or the women. But in the meantime, a medical examiner who was taking a look at the bodies determined that the cause of death to all five victims was blunt force trauma to the head with a heavy object.

[B]

Jesus. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. The family had been bludgeoned to death, the presumed family. And the wounds were so fresh that the victims had been killed within 24 hours of being abandoned and then discovered in the woods. So by the time they were found, they had only been dead within 24 hours.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Investigators did collect a crucial piece of evidence at the scene in the woods, which was a bloody fingerprint on the gas can from Sears. But the issue was that it was 1976. And so, you know, there weren't these computer databases where you can just quickly scan, you know, a fingerprint through and see if there's a match. It would be a lot harder to find the match, if it even existed in the database at all. But the major hurdle to identifying suspects and motives was identifying the victims. Because nearly a week after the remains were found, they still did not know who these people were, which is, like, pretty shocking, you know, nowadays. A woman in Bethesda, Maryland, called the police on March 8 to report her neighbors missing. Missing. She hadn't seen them in days, which was completely unusual for Them. And she noticed that mail and newspapers had been piling up outside the house.

[B]

Hey.

[A]

So the police responded to do a wellness check, and the woman who made the report had a spare key. So she led investigators inside. And as they stepped foot into this home of the missing neighbors, he knew something absolutely horrid had happened here.

[B]

Like there was just like, okay, here, you'll tell me.

[A]

There was blood everywhere.

[B]

Okay. Not what I was gonna say, if.

[A]

That answers your question. I was like, bad vibes. Yes. All an oppressive energy, per chance.

[B]

But I was thinking, like, it looked like there was like a, like a scuffle and like.

[A]

Oh, I see. Well, there is more on that. Yes. So, of course, course, the blood does not do well for, for the, the, the hope here. So there's blood, a lot of blood. Too much for someone to lose, like in an accident. Farther inside. Blood is in almost every room. It's on walls, on sheets, on the ceilings. I mean, it looks apparently, from what I heard, like just a slasher film gone wrong. Like that's how, that's how violent this looked. But there were no bodies.

[B]

Okay, well, immediately, immediately I'm, I'm piecing these two things together. Okay.

[A]

And so these are two, like, incidents that are happening, you know, hundreds of miles apart, but they're slowly starting to get figured out. The house belonged to the Bishop family. 39 year old William Bradford Bishop, 37 year old Annette met 14 year old William Bradford Bishop III, 10 year old Brenton, 5 year old Jeffrey, and then 68 year old Lobelia. And Lobelia was the father, William Bradford's mother. So there's a. The mother in law. When they inquired as to the last time the family was seen, the neighbor said, I last saw them on March 1st, and that was the day before the bodies were discovered down in North Carolina. China.

[B]

Wow. Honestly, I'm surprised the bodies were found so fast.

[A]

It was fast. Yeah.

[B]

You would think the person who buried them would be like, well, this is a rural area in the middle of nowhere. Like, who's gonna come looking for these for a while? And then within 24 hours, oh my God.

[A]

Well, they set it on fire. You know, I mean, the park ranger was sitting there looking on a watchtower and saw smoke billowing from the woods. So honestly, probably wouldn't have been found otherwise. But. All right, so 17 years earlier, we're gonna, we're gonna kind of jump back to give some context about who these people were now that they're kind of figuring out these are probably one in the same this family. Seventeen years earlier, in 1959, Annette had married her high school sweetheart, William Bradford Bishop, who went by either Bradford or Brad. Annette had been a cheerleader. Bradford was a football player. They grew up together in Pasadena, California. Bradford graduated a year ahead of her and went on to get an American studies degree from Yale and then apparently two master's degrees. There have been conflicting stories about, like, which degrees he got, but what we know is he earned a series of degrees, advanced degrees. And the same year Annette and Bradford were married, Bradford enlisted in the U. S. Army. So he spent four years working in military intelligence, traveling the world, and he became fluent in four languages. He learned the customs of God, different nations throughout Africa and Europe. When his contract ended, Bradford did not reenlist, but instead took a job with the State Department in foreign services. So now you're seeing why they're in the Maryland, like, Chevy Chase area, Potomac area, for those of you who don't know, that's very close to Washington, D.C. so he worked with foreign affairs agencies throughout Europe and Africa, and Annette was by his side at every assignment. They were high school sweetheart hearts. She moved with him from Italy to Ethiopia, Botswana. They had three sons together while they lived outside the U.S. william Bradford III, who was also called William Brenton and Jeffrey, Brad and Annette liked their lives on the move. They were always kind of social party people. Like, you know those stories I've told where, like, these D.C. socialites kind of just. Some of them have this lifestyle where they just are kind of eccentric and like to throw parties and stuff.

[B]

As someone who knows many DC Socialites. Yes, got it.

[A]

Okay. So, yeah, so that was like their thing, you know, they're traveling the world with their family. They're being put up in these beautiful homes. They're very important people. Like, they're beautiful.

[B]

Family, government, white collar politics, Correct?

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Like internationally important. You know, all this. All this.

[B]

Ambassadors there.

[A]

That's right. They get those special things on their license plates. Probably all that good stuff.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So Bradford's job had given them this, like, elevated social status wherever they went. They were living a very glamorous life. And then in 1974, Bradford accepted the position of assistant chief in the division of special activities and commercial treaties. And the bishops returned to the US to start a new chapter of their lives.

[B]

Lives.

[A]

They moved into a house in Bethesda, which is a suburb of D.C. and they started what seemed to be a picturesque life. So Bradford's mother, Lobelia moved in with them. They had a golden retriever named Leo. Annette was an Artist and she enrolled in courses at a local college. And then she. Full time, she worked full time as a stay at home mom. People thought of Annette as attentive, doting. She was very intelligent, very obviously artistic and just delightful to be around. And this new life seemed to suit them, but they were not quite used to how quiet it was. Like just not as, you know, glamorous and social and bustling as their lives in these other countries had been. But they still enjoyed luxury. From time to time, Annette and Bradford would go skiing in the winter. They spent their summer swimming and playing tennis at the country club. And their sons adjusted to this new life in the US US so 14 year old William, he was confident and outgoing. He's the eldest and he liked to talk about his, his experiences living in other countries. So when he showed up, like, you know, it's the 70s, he shows up after living in all these countries and high schoolers are just like enamored by his stories. They're like, tell us sure about Botswana. And he has these different clothes and.

[B]

They'Re just gonna be so cool.

[A]

He's the coolest kid at school and apparently also just a lovely, lovely person. And so one of his childhood was also briefly. His girlfriend Sue Williams said that William was a sweet and goofy boy. They were very close and his younger brothers were just as kind and friendly as he was. They were all very rambunctious and fun loving. And of course, as they're putting these pieces together, three boys, you know, a mom, a mother in law, a father figure who's not in this pit, they're starting to realize like something has gone terribly wrong to this family. Family. And these are definitely the same people they discovered in North Carolina. The remains belong to Annette, her three sons, and Lobelia. It was, it was pretty obvious at this point. Bradford, however, was unaccounted for and he immediately became considered a missing person. And when reporters asked the police whether he was a suspect in the murder.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

The statement was that there were no official suspects. And you know, friends of the family were like, like, well, yeah, it doesn't look good, but like we can't, we know this family pretty well. Like we can't imagine that this would be something he had done.

[B]

I guess that does have to be really tough to be like he's one of two. He's either, he's either the suspect or he's in trouble, in danger for sure.

[A]

And like either way I have to be worried alive. Yeah, exactly. Like there's. Exactly. So it's. He's a missing person. Not good. Either way. No official suspects. People started to talk, of course, because it's, like, such a shocking, jarring event. And then to have one family member just absent from the tragedy and, like, nowhere to be found, you know, people will start talking. So one of Jeffrey's young friends started hearing gossip at school, and he was in preschool.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

It's just horrible.

[B]

It's like Leona hearing something like this.

[A]

No, I know. I can't even imagine. Just, like, having to try and talk to your kids about this kind of thing. And so one of Jeffrey's young friends apparently came home and asked his mommy if Jeffrey's daddy had hurt him.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

And his parents said no, they didn't think he did, you know, because they. They really didn't believe it. They, like, couldn't believe it. Most people who knew the Bishops believed that Bradford was actually just a sixth victim. Maybe he had been kidnapped for his work in the government. Maybe he was being held for ransom. You know, like, there were possibilities that he had been killed and abandoned elsewhere. Who knows? But behind the scenes, investigators were putting a case together against Bradford because they believed that on March 1, he actually left work on his motorcycle, returned home briefly to pick up the family's maroon station wagon and go to the mall, where a Sears employee told police that they remembered Bradford purchasing the gas can and a mallet hammer on March 1st.

[B]

Oh, that's not good. Good.

[A]

Another witness saw Bradford stop at the gas station in the family's maroon station wagon and fill the gas can up. Then a neighbor saw Bradford arrive home in the station wagon and walk into his house around 6:30pm Detectives collected fingerprints from the Bishop's home, and they matched the prints to the bloody fingerprint on the gas can. Then they compared to Bradford Bradford's fingerprints, which were on file with the US Military, and they were a match. Of course, a nationwide manhunt began for Bradford because now they're realizing he's probably not so innocent. Yes, exactly.

[B]

Could there have been anyone else he now has as a hostage, or is it just him on the run that.

[A]

He'S the only one missing, aside from the dog?

[B]

Okay. Oh, so we're thinking this was just like a family annihilator situation, and he's just. Okay.

[A]

So, okay. A nationwide manhunt began for Bradford, but unfortunately, he had the odds stacked in his favor. As I mentioned, he had. He was fluent in multiple worldwide languages.

[B]

Yeah, he could just leave the country.

[A]

He could be that fancy passport. You know, he actually, in as when he worked for Foreign affairs, he was actually responsible for issuing passports to U.S. citizens. So, like, he literally knew how the process works.

[B]

I'd be like, he's just never coming back. He just said, I mean, they.

[A]

They pretty quick were like, we don't think we're gonna find him. Like, there it just he skills.

[B]

If he's still in the States, he's an idiot. Like, I mean.

[A]

Well, actually, they said that might be the smartest move because. Oh, because traveling for him, traveling would be. Well, we'll get to it. But yes. I mean, there are a lot of back and forth theories on, like, what would have been the most sensible for him versus what would have been the most high risk. Okay. But yeah, he would have had to. He would have had the knowledge to x. Desperately create a fraudulent passport if he wanted to.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He was also a licensed pilot, so that's fun. He knows how to fly a plane. Boy, oh, boy. So in other fugitive cases, witnesses might report sightings at gas stations and restaurants and major highways along the escape route that this person would have taken. But if Bradford had access to a small plane, you know, that maybe he had stashed before, he could travel hundreds of miles on his own with. Without being spotted and then be kind of in the wind. He'd already made it 300 miles to north Carolina undetected to dispose of his entire family within 24 hours of murdering them. Okay, so he's already, like, he's already way ahead of everybody then. He had more than a week's head start while detectives didn't even know who the family was. Like, the only way they were able to do this was by finally getting that report of. Of a wellness check. And then, you know, all this, all this, which kind of spiraling from there.

[B]

I'm honestly surprised that to have gone through all of this, he. It was something like a bloody fingerprint on a can. Like, had he. Had he not had that, like, he could have been gone but a long time or if he brought the can with him.

[A]

But what would have. What would have changed though, do you think? Because, like, they already know it's probably him if he's missing from the scene.

[B]

I guess so I guess I would have kept him still, like maybe a. A victim instead of a suspect.

[A]

I suppose it's hard to pull that off if you're found and then you're like, oh, I was.

[B]

Good point.

[A]

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think he didn't really care if they Thought it was him because he was already a week ahead and could probably find his way at the of there. And he did. I mean, at this point, they are pretty sure they're not going to find him. And by the time the search actually began officially, he could have seriously been anywhere in the entire world, and they had no clue. A report did come in that he was cited in Jacksonville, North Carolina, at a sporting goods store alongside his dog, Leo. He actually, that. That panned out. That was an actual sighting. He. Because he used his credit card to purchase a pair of black Converse sneakers. And investigators suspected that maybe his shoes had been bloody or covered in mud from. From his truck in the woods. And so perhaps he needed to change them so that he. They wouldn't be so obvious, you know, to passersby. But that was just a theory. They weren't really sure. On March 18, a Tennessee farmer in the Great Smoky Mountains called local authorities to report an abandoned vehicle. It was parked in the woods, and something about it just felt off. Off. Authorities ran the plates and tags and discovered that the abandoned maroon stationed wagon belonged to Bradford. The FBI. So now it's in Tennessee. The FBI collected the vehicle, and they found significant amounts of blood inside, as well as a tarp, a suitcase containing some of Bradford's clothes and some of his medication in the glove box.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They began to suspect that Bradford might have gone into the thick forest to die by suicide side, leaving behind his suitcase and his medicine, et cetera. Searchers scoured the area, found no sign of him. And he was a skilled outdoorsman who would probably be able to live in the woods for weeks on his own. And so over time, when no body turned up, they realized he was probably just trying to throw a red herring in their way and say, oh, yeah, I'm so guilty. I died by suicide out here in the woods. But then actually, you know, head off to somewhere else.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So a witness who lived just off the road where Bradford's vehicle was found said that she actually saw when the maroon station wagon arrived. And so they were immediately interested in talking to her. And she said, oh, that car wasn't alone. Oh, a second vehicle pulled up alongside. It's a woman maybe, right?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Feels like spoiler. We have no, it.

[B]

I'll tell you, it was a woman. I mean, I feel it.

[A]

The second vehicle was driving very closely behind the station wagon, as if they were following one another. She later saw only that second vehicle leave. So theoretically, he could have gotten into that vehicle, staged this sort of a Pre suicide situation and then bolted. If he had an accomplice, Detectives had no hard evidence that they were together, but they did consider, you know, that maybe someone was aiding in his escape. Escape. And like I said, Leo, the dog was also unaccounted for. Aside from that one sighting, he had not been at home, nor was he in the grave in North Carolina. And because he had been sighted with a dog in Jacksonville, it was suspected that he spared the dog. He couldn't bear to hurt his own dog. But his children and wife and mother were fair game, I guess. But he took his dog with him.

[B]

Great.

[A]

And fled. So detectives could not find Bradford's diplomatic passport. Port, wouldn't you know it, it's missing. Funny how that works out with him.

[B]

Funny how that works out.

[A]

Yeah. So it's missing. It's not in the station wagon. It's not in the home. And because of his resources, his ability to fly a plane is linguistic experience.

[B]

I mean, he's.

[A]

He's kind of outdoorsmanship.

[B]

He's the full recipe for, like, someone who should be able to get away with this, it seems.

[A]

It really does feel almost like he's preparing his. Has. Has prepared his whole life for this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, like, in another context where this wasn't a horrible, horrible murder, this could have been a cool, like, survival story of some kind. But instead, this, like, uses powers for evil, you know, and, like, vanish, like, don't. Carmen San Diego. It's just. It makes me so angry because it's like. I don't know. I just want. Well, you know what? It can't be fun, though, huh?

[B]

No.

[A]

Can't feel nice to be running your whole life. Maybe that's the punishment.

[B]

I mean, I literally have anxiety about, like, going to check the mail. Like, I can't imagine being on air.

[A]

Hunger and.

[B]

And also being on the run. I'm sorry. With a dog. Like, talk about the inconvenience of, like.

[A]

A golden retriever, no less. Like, a pretty one that stands out. It's not like a scruffy thing you can hide in your coat.

[B]

You know, I'm honestly surprised he didn't also hurt the dog just to, like, have no loose ends or, like, something.

[A]

Any heart for three sizes that day.

[B]

It is wild to me that, like, you couldn't bear to hurt your dog, but you could.

[A]

Selfish is what it is.

[B]

It's wild.

[A]

It's his own relationship to the dog he cares about, you know, not the dog.

[B]

Yeah, it's the dog.

[A]

Through the dog. Yeah. Through losing my dog. Yeah. So they're missing this passport. So obviously they're thinking, okay, he probably didn't die by suicide. He went on the run and tried to mislead us, basically. The search became international. U.S. embassies around the world received notice to be on the lookout for him. And it was 17 years before the first substantiated reports of a sighting.

[B]

Shut the up. Where the hell was this man hiding?

[A]

Teen years m I'll tell you. So, okay, in 1993, a report from Washington D.C. came into a U. S. Embassy in France that Bradford was living in a small town near the city of Dijon, France. I mean, where else would you go.

[B]

If you were on mustard town?

[A]

I know Mustard central authorities traveled there to arrest Bradford. But when they arrived, they saw mail and newspapers piled up at the house. And so they knew that nobody had lived there for a while. And if Bradford had been there, he was long gone, having evaded capture once again. Then we had another false start in 2014 when someone was watching a documentary about Bradford and realized there was a local John Doe Doe who had been killed in a hit and run in his area. And so when they did a side by side, it was a shocking resemblance how close these two men looked. And they really thought they had found him. But when they exhumed John Doe's body to try and match in 2014 to try and match them their DNA, it was not a match. And so they had to inter so was him again. So it's just he's still an unknown victim as still as a John Doe. And it was not Bradford. So the search continued. Now, this one is where there's a little bit of a plot Twist. Okay. In 2017, this woman named Kathy Gilchrist had recently retired from her career as an actress and public school drama teacher. And she had known her whole life that she had been adopted as an infant. And although she had wondered about her birth parents, she hadn't quite felt like it was time to look for for them. But when she retired from teaching, she thought, well, you know, I'm feeling this pull to, to look into who my birth parents really were. Okay, so she had the time now, the energy to, to do the search. And she submitted a DNA sample to 23andMe. And she was connected with her third cousin, a woman named Susan. Immediately, they became fast friends. And Susan said, I want to help you find your birth parents. Eventually, Kathy located her mother, who was alive but still extremely ill, and her children, Kathy. This was really hard. Kathy's half siblings begged Kathy not to contact their Mother. Because they said she was so sick that they were worried it would.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

Be too much. Yeah. Yeah. So Kathy had to respect their wishes, and she did not contact her mother and instead decided to turn her attention to her father, who seemed to have been estranged from her mother. Because when she spoke to these half siblings, they said, like, we don't know who your father is. Is. It appears like we didn't know about you. You know, you must have come from a different person than our dad. And to the point, you know, that they didn't even want the mom to. To. To hear about it. So she's looking for her dad. There's no information on him in the adoption records, but one day, Susan calls and says, says, Kathy, I think I have figured out who your father is.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And jokingly, Kathy said, oh, is he somebody famous? And Susan said, I think you should sit down. And Susan said, unfortunately, your father is Bradford Bishop, a man who is wanted for the murder of his entire family, AKA your entire family.

[B]

Wow. Imagine finding out you had a whole family, and.

[A]

And they're gone. Right. It's shocking. So Kathy contacted authorities, and the FBI used more DNA samples from Bradford's cigarettes, which they had found in his car, to confirm that he was indeed Kathy's father. So this is just shocking information she has to process. This was a surprising development for investigators who believed that they knew everything about Bradford and his life up to his disappearance. Like, they. They had combed his past. It revealed that he was someone capable of hiding more than they thought, which was not a good thing when they're on the lookout for him. Even the existence of a child that he, you know, probably never told his wife or anybody about because nobody seemed to know about this child.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Kathy felt compelled to learn all she could about Bradford and about her younger half siblings. Siblings. Three younger brothers that had been killed and murdered by their own dad.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

She was born in 1957, and she'd grown up in Massachusetts in what she described as an extremely wholesome home with salt of the earth parents who'd adopted her as an infant. She compared her timeline of her life. Like, it's a very surreal situation. She described that in 1976, the year they were killed, she was 18, and she was. Was, like, having the time of her life. She won a local pageant. She was crowned as, like, you know, homecoming queen or whatever. She just was so happy and had this, like, beautiful life. And she said, you know, going back and looking at that timeline and seeing, like, my brother's Lives just cut short, you know, the mother and also their.

[B]

Mother cut short the survivor's guilt of just knowing that you had a great.

[A]

Life and, yeah, you were having all these great experiences. It's just got to be such a strange conflict. So she connected with people who knew her half siblings as children, and she visited their school, and she learned that William, the eldest, his classmates, had raised money as children to plant a tree and put a plaque there when he had passed. And she got to go see the plaque. And they had moved the plaque from the school courtyard to an exterior wall. Wall, the tree still standing. And Kathy felt like it was a connection to her younger brother. She learned that her grandmother Lobelia was an actress like she is. And Kathy considered maybe she had inherited some creativity and, you know, love for the performing arts through her grandmother. Of course, she tried to understand why her birth father would have done such a thing. But, you know, I think this is one of those things we just will never fully understand as a. A. As a person with a shred of empathy. Right. Like, how could you even wrap your head around this?

[B]

Just make yourself crazy.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she tried to kind of untangle as much as she could. So this is kind of where I tell you, like, the backstory, the context of what happened leading up to this horrendous murder. And this is the last bit of the story, but it kind of ties it together because it was Kathy's research that kind of. Kind of, you know, pulled this story together. So Kathy's trying to learn about her dad and her family and figure out what the hell happened here, why her dad would do such a heinous thing. And as she's researching through people who knew the family, she learned that Bradford, her birth father, had been deeply unsatisfied with his life once they'd moved back to the U.S. okay, he had missed that kind of glitz and glamour, the importance of being, you know, this guy abroad and living and working in other countries and speaking different languages. He was apparently seeing a psychiatrist at the time and being medicated for depression because he was so deeply unhappy. The FBI described him as a longtime insomniac. So there were clearly a lot of just imbalances here just as far as, like, his satisfaction with life, his satisfaction with his family. In 1976, Bradford was apparently expecting a promotion to a new international position. And he was really looking forward to this because he wanted to escape the suburbs, and he just hated this nine to five office life he was suddenly stuck in. But on March 1, the day that he killed his wife, children, and his own mother. He had learned that the promotion went to someone else. Yeah.

[B]

O. Okay. And so he just, I, quote, quote, snapped or quote, like, just didn't. Yeah. Couldn't take it anymore.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It was like the last straw. You know, he told his supervisor he didn't feel well. He went home early. There were rumors that the family was also having financial issues, which, you know, we see all the time in these family annihilator cases. It's a huge part of it. The loss of power, the loss of money, the, like, if I can't have them, no one can mentality, that control. And it. It's. It's horrendous. So he went home early. Kathy said in an interview that she believed he killed his family because he wanted to leave behind and start a new life. Because, you know, it's just this selfish move of my dog, and I want to go start over. Bye. You know, and you don't get to. It's just. It's sick.

[B]

I. I mean, I'll never know the.

[A]

It's just outrageous. I mean, the story starts with five bodies in it. Grave, a whole family. It's just like, how do you even rush?

[B]

Like, how do you even. Like, like, did you even cry? Like, did you even grieve, you know, like. Like, I don't even. We'll never. We'll never know what the process was.

[A]

I'm sure. I feel like there's probably a grief for your own life if you're in the. If you're this up to be like, if you're this up, you must be thinking, period. You must be like, sorry for yourself. I can't imagine you feel any shred of. Because how could you otherwise. Like, how could you live otherwise on the run if. If this were eating away at you, you know?

[B]

Great point.

[A]

I just have to think people like this don't feel that. That way.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know. I. Yeah, I don't know.

[A]

Which is just horrible. But what can you do? So Kathy said in his twisted mind, she thinks this is about her father. He felt as if he deserved better. And doesn't that just.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Bradford was eventually put on the FBI's top 10 most wanted list. In a 2025 interview by W. USA9, FBI agent Karen Cody said that Bradford most likely remained the US where he could more easily go undetected in his new life under an assumed identity because it wouldn't flag, you know, the passport or he wouldn't need to use fake Passport to. To go abroad. He'd just do some unassuming labor somewhere.

[B]

And which, like, the irony of, like, you did all this because you hated your current life and now you and glam, and now you can't have it. So did you really win?

[A]

No. Right. That's what I'm saying. It can't be a fun time, right? Like, it can't feel like you won. I mean, I hope that that's at.

[B]

Least whatever you wanted didn't come true. So, like, yeah, stupid.

[A]

It's just. It really is sick. So, yeah, that is what they assume happened because it would be the most effective way to hide. However, due to his experience working internationally in embassies, he'd also be familiar with what to do and not to do do to live abroad unassumingly. And he was fluent in multiple languages. There are countries where maybe they're more. More or less likely to. Like, he would know where to hide. You know what I mean? It has been nearly 50 years since Bradford murdered his entire family and disappeared.

[B]

So he's dead by now.

[A]

If he's alive today, he would be nearly 90.

[B]

Okay. I don't know.

[A]

Some. Sometimes these cockroaches live forever, you know.

[B]

Praying down the truth. Yeah.

[A]

Agent Karen Cody said, we hope that if he is still alive, that he feels he's carried this with him all these years. And even if there's not guilt, I really believe at least he's carried the pressure of hiding and the pressure of knowing, like, just being hated, man.

[B]

Just constant stress and paranoia over the.

[A]

Over your shoulder. Like, it can't be an enjoyable experience. There have been US and international sightings of Bradford over the decades since his disappearance, and there is still hope that he'll be found and face justice. But, like, every year that passes, it's less likely that a. He'll make a deathbed confession. You know, like, if he's already died, that's a loss. Or that he'll ever, like, step forward and actually admit anything. They just doubt it. So, you know, maybe someday we'll find a way to answer, get some answers or find out where he's been. But yeah, it's just all around, like, really wild to imagine doing a 23andMe and being like, oh, my word.

[B]

You know, as someone who. Who loves answers, ancestry, and keeps wanting to find someone interesting for the plot, I'm like, but with limitations.

[A]

That interesting. Yeah, well, yeah, right. Oh, anyway, so that's the Bishop family. Really tragic one, as usual.

[B]

That's.

[A]

Oh, that's what it was Last week was the story of the fingerprints or the DNA that kept showing up everywhere. And we thought it was a woman of mystery and it was just a Polish grandma mother.

[B]

I'm telling you, that one really got me good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But that was because it was. That one felt like a real life puzzle.

[A]

It was. And it was stranger than fiction. It was like, oh yeah. Authorities literally spent millions of years chasing nobody. Like, I mean, it's like a wild goose chase.

[B]

But I feel like my. I am to lady and white as you are to family Annihilator, where it's just like they're just.

[A]

Just everywhere.

[B]

They're just everywhere.

[A]

I mean, fortunately, I feel like they're not maybe to narcissists. I feel like there's one of those every.

[B]

That's a great one.

[A]

Family Annihilators. Thank God you and far between fucking.

[B]

Cocky for their own good. Yeah.

[A]

Just somebody who is like, really?

[B]

If there's people. If there's ever. And that's why I drink bingo card. I think the free spot should be narcissist slash lady and. Lady and white.

[A]

Yeah, it's like, nice try. Yeah, you're. We are. We all have this one. It's a free space.

[B]

I feel. I feel almost bad every time we tell a story and I've got a lady in white. I'm like, I'm sorry, she's just everywhere. I don't know what do to tell you.

[A]

I don't know what to tell you. Listen, I love a lady in white because sometimes she's a. A jilted bride. Sometimes she's just doesn't have a head. Sometimes she's. I mean, honestly, I kind of love many forms. Yeah, she has many forms. I kind of love that about her.

[B]

I love the cocky ones because then I have someone to be mad about and scream at. And so I, I'm.

[A]

I like whenever in my stories.

[B]

The narcissist.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought you meant the ladies in white. I was like, has this happened? I didn't think that was a crossover. Noticed.

[B]

If we find a narcissist in white, that's gonna be beautiful.

[A]

Yeah, that's bad news News. That. That's bad news. I mean, that UFO you talked about was white. So that's true.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

I don't know anyway, but. Well, we're gonna go to our yappy hour now where we're just gonna debrief about. I don't know. We haven't taken one of those quizzes. What kind of ghost are you in? A while or what kind of cryptid are you? We could do that. Or, I don't know, figure it out. We'll come up with something. But check us out. We're on patreon.com atwd podcast or you can get bonus episodes through your feed through Spotify, Apple and otherwise. Yeah, check us out. And that's where you drink.comATWD podcast. Otherwise we'll see you next week.

[B]

And that's why we breathe. Just kidding. Christine.

[A]

Can't. Oh no.

[B]

New season, new chaos in college football. Big stage, big opportunity. This Labor Day weekend wildness lives on ABC, ESPN and the all new ESPN app. What a way to start. Featuring top 10 teams like Clemson, Notre Dame, Alabama, Alabama and LSU. And Bill Belichick's debut at North Carolina.

[A]

It's so special when these teams collide.

[B]

Don't miss a lineup filled with electric matchups. Welcome back to College Football Kickoff Week presented by Modelo. Labor Day Weekend on ESPN and abc. Also available to stream on the all new ESPN Applied.