And That's Why We Drink — Episode 450: Estate Sale Unboxings and Open-Eyed Naps

Date: September 21, 2025
Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz

Episode Overview

In this milestone 450th episode, Christine and Em bring their signature blend of humor, warmth, and chilliness as they delve into spine-tingling folklore and heart-wrenching true crime. The episode opens with Christine's haunted estate sale finds and stories from their personal lives (including "open-eyed" toddler naps), before launching into Em's folklore tale about the South African Tokolosh. Christine follows with the tragic, lesser-known case of Lori Annelise Page. As always, the hosts interlace their storytelling with candid banter, quirky tangents, and genuine empathy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Christine's Estate Sale "Unboxing" & the Ethics of Collecting the Past

• Christine shares her new hobby: buying old family photo albums and letters at digital estate sales.
  • She scored several photo albums for $31, describing it as hundreds of photos and vintage cards, some with "murder handwriting."
  • “It’s just kind of fun to look through. And then it’s also a very good, like, coffee table book. When people come over, you’re like, I don’t believe you.” (Christine, 06:03)
• The conversation veers into the value and spookiness of owning strangers’ family memorabilia, as Em reflects:
  • “For those, by the way, who are just listening, Christine has accumulated even more old as shit pictures of people who are certainly no longer living.” (Em, 04:26)
  • Em admits they're both fascinated and a bit unnerved by the prospect.

2. Open-Eyed Naps: Christine’s Daughter’s Preschool Antics

• Christine talks about her daughter Leona’s first days at preschool and her unique insistence that she rests with her eyes open:
  • “She told me… she kept my eyes open the whole time. You know how she’s like, that girl loves to not close her eyes.” (Christine, 14:29)
  • Em jokes: “Talk about a really good Halloween costume. Dressing up as a toddler who just… sleeps with eyes open.” (Em, 16:47)

3. Why They Drink: The Rituals & Reluctance

• Em shares their hot weather woes and elaborate iced tea rituals, musing on the inconveniences that drive them to drink (iced tea).
• The hosts riff on their thoughts about alcohol, life routines being disrupted, and the “window of time” to become a drinker:
  • “I think there’s like a window when you have to start drinking, and then if you don’t get into that window, then… I think you just don’t drink.” (Em, 13:13)

Paranormal Folklore: The Tokolosh

(Em’s Story Segment, Starts Approx. 19:12)

What is the Tokolosh?

• South African folklore spirit with a “hundred aliases,” known for causing trouble and misfortune.
  • Visually: “Hairy primates. Monkey-like gremlin elves. …Often they have long, bony fingers, gouged out eyes, and a burn hole in its head.” (Em, 21:21 - 22:03)
  • Notably: "They are hairy little gremlin... with big old wangs." (Em, 21:31, 21:40)
• How is it created?
  • Usually by a witch (distinct from a healer, or ‘Sangoma’) to enact vengeance, at the cost of a loved one’s soul:
    “It’s a soul for a soul situation.” (Em, 25:22)
  • Ritual: A corpse, animal, doll, or sewn-together body is burned, eyes gouged as “to make this body no longer think or see for itself,” sprinkled with a shrinking powder (“like a Shrinky Dink situation,” Christine, 28:50).
• What does the Tokolosh do?
  • Pranks to violence: Steals food, ruins belongings, attacks sleepers. In extreme cases, associated with beatings or even murder.
  • Feared for “sucking the breath” out of sleeping victims—originating in real deaths due to carbon monoxide from sleeping too close to fires on the ground, which folklore morphed into tales of the Tokolosh (48:04).
• Protection & Superstition
  • Raise your bed off the ground to keep Tokolosh away (“They’re so small. You’re be-ableist is what it is.” Em, 45:07).
  • Use special salts, destroy ritual ingredients, or “surround yourself with positive people.”
• Notable Moments:
  • Spirited debate about the “physics” of Tokolosh endowments.
  • Em’s tangent about visiting the Museum of Sex with their mom (32:23).

Memorable Quotes:

• “Body parts sewn together to form a host is such a sentence.” (Em, 27:49)
• “If you ever wanted to ruin my life just… inconvenience me.” (Em, 37:09)
• Christine’s observation: “That’s a fascinating example of the use of folklore to create tangible changes in the lifestyle of people. The creature ultimately resulted in a positive impact on communities who believed in it.” (Em, quoting, 50:23)

True Crime: The Case of Lori Annelise Page

(Christine’s Story Segment, Starts Approx. 55:34)

The Disappearance

• Lori Page, a brilliant, “nerdy” 12-year-old, disappears from her father’s home in Tallahassee, FL, June 2022.
• Troubled family history:
  • Early years with mother, Miranda, in Tennessee; periods of custody by child services.
  • Moved to father Andrew’s custody at age 11, after Miranda refuses her return from a visit in Florida.
  • Despite hardships, Lori is a standout student—top marks, eager for school, beloved by teachers.
  • Notably isolated at home: no phone, no social media, rarely allowed out.

Red Flags and Community Effort

• Multiple runaway incidents, but always staying close to school, her only community.
• After her disappearance, local efforts—led by her teacher, Margie, and a pastor, Rudy—rally to find her, frustrated by lack of police urgency.

Darker Truths

• Reports of physical abuse by her father Andrew: “He once yelled at Lori and beat her with a belt at the school bus stop in front of the other children.” (Christine, 71:44)
• Lori known to struggle with depression, low self-worth, and had talked of self-harm.

The Break in the Case

• For months, police treat it as a runaway—then, a year and a half after Lori disappears, evidence mounts against Andrew:
  • Search warrant on Andrew’s new home yields blood identified as Lori’s, a handgun, special blood-cleaning products, and suspicious internet searches (e.g., “dead body”, “bad neighborhood Tallahassee,” “where do police look to find missing kids,” etc.) (79:21–81:27)
  • Phone data pinpoints Andrew in a remote area on the day Lori vanished.
  • After a controlled burn uncovers remains, Lori’s body is found 30 meters from where Andrew’s phone pinged.

Aftermath

• Andrew arrested for 2nd degree murder, dies of pulmonary embolism in jail before trial (June 2025).
• Community holds a memorial for Lori. Her mother’s message is read:
  • “We honor Lori by carrying forward her light, choosing compassion over despair, and holding each other with the same warmth that she gave to us so freely.” (Christine, 84:47)

Memorable Quotes:

• “You know, that’s just the surface—like, that you don’t behave that way in public and then not worse behind closed doors.” (Christine, 71:57)
• “It’s like you hear of just, like, such a beautiful, sensitive, like, soul, you know, who just wanted to do good and just wanted to be around community and just wanted to work hard—it’s like the ultimate just slap in the face by the universe.” (Christine, 84:53)

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On old photos:
  “For those… who are just listening, Christine has accumulated even more old as shit pictures of people who are certainly no longer living.” — Em (04:26)

• On Leona’s napping:
  “She told me… she kept my eyes open the whole time. You know how she’s like, that girl loves to not close her eyes.” — Christine (14:29)
  “Talk about a really good Halloween costume. Dressing up as a toddler who just… sleeps with eyes open.” — Em (16:47)

• On Tokolosh folklore:
  “Body parts sewn together to form a host is such a sentence.” — Em (27:49)
  “The Tokolosh will pick for you which loved one he’ll be taking…” — Em (25:56)
  “They are hairy little gremlins—with big old wangs.” — Em (21:40)

• On life’s inconveniences:
  “If you ever wanted to ruin my life just… inconvenience me.” — Em (37:09)

• On the power of folklore:
  “That’s a fascinating example of the use of folklore to create tangible changes in the lifestyle of people.” — Em quoting source (50:23)

• On the injustice of Lori’s story:
  “It’s like the ultimate just slap in the face by the universe, you know? It just feels like existential dread.” — Christine (84:53)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [03:38] Christine’s estate sale acquisitions and unboxing
• [13:33] Christine’s daughter’s experience at preschool (the open-eyed nap)
• [19:12] Start of Em’s story: South African folklore — The Tokolosh
• [48:04] Origins of Tokolosh tied to real dangers (carbon monoxide poisoning)
• [55:34] Christine’s story: The disappearance of Lori Annelise Page
• [79:21] Evidence found in Andrew Wiley’s car, breakthrough in case
• [84:47] Memorial for Lori and her mother’s statement

Summary & Tone

The episode is deeply layered, balancing the hosts' morbid curiosity and irreverent humor with authentic compassion—especially in handling Lori’s case. While the Tokolosh tale is fun, wild, and sometimes crude (with discussions about old sex toys and anatomical oddities), the crime story is somber and tinged with frustration about systemic failures. The hosts’ rapport shines throughout, flipping between laugh-out-loud tangents and moments of haunting gravity.

For New Listeners

This episode is a textbook example of And That’s Why We Drink: sharp wit, spooky stories, relatable digressions, and deep empathy for real-life tragedy. The hosts’ banter makes heavy topics accessible without trivializing them, and their thoughtful approach to folklore and true crime is both entertaining and respectful.