E451 Labubu Covens and Immortal Butt Portals

Summary

And That's Why We Drink

Episode 451: Labubu Covens and Immortal Butt Portals

Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz
Date: September 28, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and engaging episode, Christine returns from a transformative trip to Egypt, sharing tales of spiritual awakening, new friendships, and questionable portals of the butt variety. The hosts then dive into their signature blend of true crime and the paranormal: Em unpacks the bizarre historical mystery of Ellen Sadler, "The Sleeping Girl of Turville," while Christine presents the emotional and infuriating hate crime case of Blaze Bernstein. The episode weaves humor, catharsis, rage, and empathy as the hosts reflect on topics from queer identity and hate, to the power of seeing the world, and the strange magic of losing things to mysterious forces.

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Main Segments

1. Christine's Transformational Egypt Trip (03:33–28:28)

• Christine recounts her life-changing journey to Egypt, organized by her psychic friend Nicole and filled with 17 women from around the world. Despite initial social anxiety, Christine sought spiritual growth and intentionally trusted the universe ("I'm on this road here—just trust the universe. I've always wanted to go to Egypt." [05:14])
• Adventures & mishaps:
  • Mild food poisoning, missing a hot air balloon ride ("I got to not go on the hot air balloon ride, which was a privilege for me." [06:35])
  • Heat, long bus rides, discomfort, but a resolve to “not complain, just go with it." [06:42]
• Unique spiritual experiences:
  • Group meditations, palm readings, astrology, past life regression, journaling, and healing focus ("We did a lot of meditating... trading [skills] on the bus.” [07:38])
  • Letting go of family drama and seeing positive changes occur in her absence ("Without my meddling, you're all healing and improving without me involved!" [08:31])
  • Embracing the idea of "raising the frequency” and quantum positivity.
• Cross-cultural reflections:
  • Facing sexism, poverty upfront, and a guide’s insight: “The West has all this, too, it’s just hidden differently…” [09:23]
• Favorite moments:
  • Meditating between the paws of the Sphinx at 3am ("We got to sit—and this is not a joke—between the paws of the Sphinx at 3am, just our group." [10:57])
  • Witnessing a UFO above the Sphinx ("Something come out from behind a star and do like a little loop around the star..." [11:15])
  • Losing and finding objects in weird ways, sparking jokes about “butt portals” and supernatural lost-and-found incidents [14:49–18:22]
• Notable quote:
  • "I'm all about now, like, raising the frequency, right? I've watched a lot of this quantum physics shit, and I'm like, sure, if we're all just making ourselves better, then the world will be better." [08:54]

Labubu Covens and Immortal Butt Portals (15:47–28:15)

• Christine and her friends notice items going missing and reappearing from strange pockets and places, fostering inside jokes about “butt portals” and more ("It fell out of my ass." – Christine [14:51])
• Christine brings her daughter’s beloved Labubu plush on the trip, leading to a “Labubu circle” and playful talk of forming a mystical “coven.”

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2. Personal Catch-ups and Pet Angst (28:28–42:36)

• Em is prepping for travel to Philadelphia and Delaware for a friends’ reunion and to check off another state on their “50 states by 35” bucket list.
• Both hosts discuss the trials of boarding Em's dog Hank, separation anxiety, pet daycare drama, encounters with a backyard mouse/rat (“It ran directly at me!” [33:49]), and local wildlife including bold urban coyotes and skunks (“Hank could absolutely not survive… his favorite thing to do is run towards danger.” [36:11])

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3. Paranormal/True Crime Story #1: The Sleeping Girl of Turville—Ellen Sadler (42:36–79:21)

Timeline:

• Intro (42:36): “Here's a story for you, Christine, and I think you'll like this one...”
• Story proper (43:11+): Ellen Sadler, born 1860 in Turville, Buckinghamshire, England, suddenly falls into a mysterious “sleep” at age 11 in 1871, after persistent headaches, swelling, and a hospital stay.
• The nine-year sleep (49:28): Ellen enters a fetal position and “doesn’t wake up”—for nine years ("Nine years." [49:29])
• Scientific and public fascination:
  • She is cared for by her impoverished family, fed through a chipped tooth, doesn't move, and shows only slight signs of life.
  • Becomes a global curiosity, with odd medical investigations and tourism; people collect her hair, leave donations [55:10–56:18].
  • Official suspicion arises after a nearby case of Munchausen by proxy and a fear Ellen's family may be exploiting her.
• Her miraculous awakening (64:28):
  • Ellen wakes up at age 21, unaware of any time passing, having missed her mother's death by just five months
  • Physically recovers, lives a relatively normal life, marries, and dies in her 50s.
  • Modern medical speculation: severe narcolepsy, epilepsy, or coma, with some suspecting Munchausen by proxy by her mother (“She recovered a little too quickly, like, without her body having atrophied…” [74:45])
  • Her cottage, “Sleepy Cottage,” is now famous, featured in BBC’s Vicar of Dibley. [76:05]
• Notable Moments:
  • “Imagine waking up and now you’re nine years older and have no hair.” – Em [56:07]
  • “Christine, this is the chick that slept forever?” – Em [42:49]
  • “As the town crier, imagine you got to spread the news she woke up!” [77:22]
• Reflection and humor:
  • Discussion of queer history, town criers, and the nature of medical mysteries.
  • Quote: “Nine years. And at first everyone thought she was dead because, duh… but she just kept being warm.” – Em [49:40]

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4. True Crime Story #2: The Hate Crime Murder of Blaze Bernstein (87:20–171:28)

Timeline

• Blaze Bernstein is a talented, creative gay Jewish college student home for break in Orange County, California, 2018 [87:20–103:22]
• Goes missing after leaving with Sam Woodward, a socially awkward former schoolmate who belonged to a neo-Nazi organization—Blaze’s worried family cracks his Snapchat, discovering Sam’s identity and contacting him [106:23–109:54]
• Investigation reveals:
  • Sam’s story is suspicious: he claims Blaze met a mysterious third person in the park, which no one can verify.
  • Blaze is found a week later, brutally murdered (stabbed 24+ times) in a shallow grave; Sam is seen cleaning his car and is arrested.
• Deeper context:
  • Sam’s involvement in “Atomwaffen Division,” an online neo-Nazi terrorist group targeting LGBTQ and Jewish people [128:52–133:16]
  • Evidence of Sam’s premeditation and extensive homophobic/violent correspondence—he targeted and terrorized queer men using dating apps (“Sam’s Diary of Hate” [142:29])
• Courtroom & verdict:
  • Sam’s defense attempts to argue he was closeted and acted in panic, but the evidence is overwhelming.
  • The jury finds Sam guilty of first-degree murder and a hate crime.
  • Blaze’s family, including a Holocaust-surviving grandmother, chooses not to confront Sam: “He’s a footnote in history.” [163:19]
• Quotes & Emotional Beats:
  • “They claimed Sam’s father used homophobic slurs... A lot of dads do this shit people. It doesn’t make you stab somebody 24 times. Sorry.” – Christine [139:46]
  • “If someone is that obsessed with gay people, you’re the one thinking about queer people this much!” – Em [146:21]
  • “Blaze’s memory and spirit will live on in every kind deed done in his honor.” – Christine [166:38]
  • “It’s not too late to fix the world.” – Blaze’s mom, Jean [167:10]
• Host Reflection:
  • Rage, gallows humor, and direct challenging of bigotry (“Homophobes are gay. Nazis are bad. And that’s kind of…” – Christine [175:21])
  • Painfully honest discussion about queer identity, family legacy, and speaking out against inherited shame (“I think part of my life mission is to call that out and get it out and work on that.” – Christine [176:12])

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Notable Running Jokes & Moments

• “Butt portals” and the supernatural movement of objects (“It fell out of my ass.” [14:51])
• Labubu covens (“We did like a little Labubu circle where we put him in the middle, and were like, Labu-boo!” [28:15])
• Town crier impressions, riffing on telling 19th-century villagers Ellen Sadler has finally woken up (“Hear ye, hear ye!” [77:22])
• Extended rants on the toxicity of closeted hate, Republican hypocrisy, Nazis, and inherited ancestral trauma—all with signature irreverence and catharsis.

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Story Timestamps

• Main Egypt recap / spiritual travel & Labubu coven: 03:33–28:28
• Pet drama & local wildlife: 28:28–42:36
• “Sleeping Girl” Ellen Sadler story begins: 42:36
• Medical mystery / public spectacle: 49:28–79:21
• Blaze Bernstein story begins: 87:20
• Investigation & trial: 106:23–171:28

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Summative Highlights

• Travel, healing, and the supernatural: Christine’s Egypt trip is both magical and comically weird, featuring everything from UFOs to “immortal butt portals,” with a serious undertone of self-reflection and intention to live with greater compassion.
• Queerness, bigotry, and resistance: Both main stories orbit the realities of being queer, queerphobia, and the persistent need to claim one’s truth in a world that often pushes back. Em and Christine share pointed, powerful insights and laughter in the face of hate.
• History, mystery, and meaning: The story of Ellen Sadler connects the eerie with the unexplained, and leads to philosophical questions about illness, exploitation, and the role of community.
• Head-on condemnation of hate: Christine’s story calls out the dark reality of hate-driven violence, resolutely urging listeners to act, speak, and love in resistance.
• Quotes:
  • “Look inward! Whatever my problem is, is my problem. Nobody else’s… this is crazy-making.” – Christine [160:10]
  • “Homophobes are gay. Nazis are bad. And that’s kind of…” – Christine [175:21]
  • “It’s well intentioned. And that’s why we drink.” – Em [179:09]

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For Listeners

Even if you haven't listened, this episode will provide a heady mix of spiritual growth and dark realities, from past-life regressions in the shadow of the Pyramids to the infuriating persistence of queerphobia and the endurance of hope. The hosts’ mix of vulnerability, wit, and righteous rage makes for a cathartic, deeply human listen—easily a representative episode of ATWWD’s “murder and the paranormal finally meet.”

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Skip the intros. Skip the ads. But don’t miss a moment between 03:33 and 171:28 for stories you’ll be thinking about for days.

Transcript

[Emma]

Emmy award winner Kerry Washington returns as Dr. Virginia Edwards in Audible's heart pounding supernatural thriller the Prophecy. Season two. Also starring Giancarlo Esposito, Dulay Hill, Renzi Feliz and Ebony Obsidian. The battle between good and evil reaches new heights in this action packed sequel that pits faith against fear and pushes the fate of humankind to the edge. Follow every twist and turn as Virginia and her miracle son Joshua flee from Detroit pursued by the sinister Luther Bell, played by Giancarlo Esposito and and his morning stars cult. You know how I feel about a cult. Very intriguing. With her estranged husband Ryan and Moses, played by Julia Hill, a devotee with a mysterious past, Virginia finds unlikely allies in Samson and Delilah. Together they uncover the truth about Joshua's place in an ancient prophecy. And each perilous step of their journey is guided by Virginia's haunting visions. While Bell's forces close in, threatening to tear tear their world apart. As natural disasters erupt, Virginia must embrace her role as both mother and chosen protector. But will it be too late? Evil is rising and time is running out. Do not miss Kerry Washington and Audible's new must listen the Prophecy season two. Go to audible.com prophecy2. That's the number two. And start listening today.

[Christine]

Hi, I'm Kristen Bell and if you know my husband Dax, then you also know he loves shopping for a car. Selling a car, not so much. We're really doing this, huh? Thankfully, Carvana makes it easy. Answer a few questions, put in your VIN or license and done. We sold ours in minutes this morning and they'll come pick it up and pay us this afternoon. Goodbye, Truckee. Of course, we kept the favorite. Hello other Truckee. Sell your car with Carvana today. Terms and conditions apply over here at.

[Emma]

N. That's why we drink. We talk about some silly stuff, but we also talk about obviously real heavy hitters. We talk about true crime. We also talk a lot about mental health. And one facet of mental health I think is incredibly overlooked is people that are dealing with ocd. One of the reasons I think it gets overlooked is because people think they have this idea of what it is. Or people even make the joke of like, oh, sorry, that's my ocd. And they don't realize that it's actually a serious and highly misunderstood condition that causes people to get stuck in a cycle of stressful unwanted thoughts and repetitive physical behaviors. They can be scary and disturbing and completely out of character. They create so much anxiety that people end up doing behaviors called compulsions to try to make that anxiety go away. And not every therapist understands OCD or is qualified to treat it effectively. OCD is highly treatable with a specialized type of therapy called erp, or Exposure and responsive Prevention. I know Christine has tried it. With no cd, you can do live virtual ERP therapy with licensed therapists who specialize in ocd and they won't judge you no matter what your thoughts are about. So go check out NOCD and see if they can help you. If you think you or someone you know might be struggling with OCD, please don't wait to go get help. Go to nocd.com and book a free call with our team to learn more. That's n o c d.com to Schedule A free call and learn more. So here's what's going on, everybody. Welcome to episode 451. I have been on the edge of my seat for quite some time waiting to ask a very important question to Christine. Christine, are you there?

[Christine]

I marry you. Absolutely. Just kidding. You asked me that like two years ago. Five years ago.

[Emma]

Well, the question is kiss. Specifically. I never say anything about, like, locking this down. But you did.

[Christine]

You gave me a tractor bracelet, which I think I promptly lost. Or maybe it's. Maybe it's somewhere in the.

[Emma]

I did specify that'd be a w. A Vegas wedding, to be fair.

[Christine]

That's true. So that probably an old by now. Probably annulled before it ever happened.

[Emma]

But I'm still. We're still out on the makeout question. Anyway, the new one I have is. Please tell everybody I have not heard anything. Folks. I've been waiting until we were on the podcast desk. How was Egypt?

[Christine]

I went to Egypt. I'm actually shocked you recognize me. I thought I'd get on here.

[Emma]

You're a new woman.

[Christine]

Thank you for understanding. Because I tried to pitch that joke to Blaze and he said okay. And I said, okay. Well, in the moment. And we'll say something funnier like about my.

[Emma]

Like, you've changed.

[Christine]

I'm a new person. Right. Yeah. And to be fair, I put him on the spot and he was trying to eat lunch, so. But thank you for playing along.

[Emma]

You do. Actually, your. Your eye makeup is different today than usual. You're wearing lipstick, which is unfamiliar to me sometimes. Oh, you've got a really specific tip. It looks Egyptian. A very tip.

[Christine]

I. I wore zero makeup while I was there. So when I got home, I was like, ooh, I can play, like, you know, dress up again. Yeah, gotta get. No, it was really cool. It was a. Just a Beautiful experience. Um, I went with a few. It was two, no, 19 people total, but there were like 17, 16 women.

[Emma]

And yes, immediately, this sounds like your worst nightmare. Why did you do this? That sounds like. Like, if I told you I'm going on a random trip with 19 random people, you would go, I'll never do that.

[Christine]

I got my own room. So I was like, okay, I can hide. But also, I don't know, Em. It's like, you know, I'm on this. This road here where I'm like, just trust the universe. And I've always wanted to go to Egypt. I've had like a lifetime.

[Emma]

I mean, look, we've been hearing for years. We know. We. What happened?

[Christine]

There she is, my little segment. And so beautiful. Gosh. I just was so. So then when my friend Nicole, who does a psychic story, we were on her show before when she was like, oh, I'm actually planning a trip to Egypt with some people. And I was like, I'm going. And this was like in January or something. And I just signed up right away without any questions. I had no clue what I was getting into. It was genuinely the most incredible experience of my life. Not. No shit. Not being ironic. It was very life changing. I came back and I was like, I am a new person. I feel. Wow. Yeah, it was really beautiful and cool.

[Emma]

Can I ask what, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, physically, Kind of.

[Christine]

Well, physically, not great.

[Emma]

Well, physically, now you have the wing tip now on our eyes.

[Christine]

I do. Okay. So physically, all right. Because I did also get mild food poisoning and that kicked my Crohn's into gear a little bit. But, you know, that was only for one or two days, so I feel like. And it was on the day of the hot air balloon, so I was like, cool timing. Not into that.

[Emma]

So you'll be in the sky.

[Christine]

Just like, I skipped. I skipped.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

So you didn't get to go on a hot air balloon ride?

[Christine]

Actually, I got to not go on a hot air balloon ride.

[Emma]

I see.

[Christine]

So that was a privilege for me. I felt.

[Emma]

Yeah, I see. Okay.

[Christine]

And it was also wake up at 4am to go on the hot air balloon ride. And I said, I know. Yeah, you. You've been there. Yeah. So I've. I felt that I. It worked out. Exactly. And I, you know, there were some issues along the way. Not issues, but just like, you know, longer bus rides that we expected and like some just like discomfort. Like it's 104 degrees. Like, there were things like that. And I was like, you know what? I'M just gonna go with it, flow with it, not complain, Just go. And it was so perfect and beautiful and wonderful, and I healed a lot of wounds that I've had. We did a lot of meditating. It was a very, like, spiritual group, so we did a lot of, like, meditating and journaling there. Everybody on the trip had a different, like, skill. Like, one woman reads palms. One woman is, like, really, really into astrology and can do your chart, like, you know, super well. So we're on the bus, like, just trading. I mean, I didn't have anything to offer. Comedic relief, maybe, but everybody else.

[Emma]

Everyone needs a personality hire, I'm telling you.

[Christine]

That's right. Thank you. That's probably why Nicole got me. Got me on board. No, it was really co. And, you know, everybody. Oh, this one woman's, like, really, really into. She does a lot of, like, past life work. And so on the. On a especially long bus ride, we did, like, a past life regression where she kind of talked us through it, and we journaled, and it was just so fucking cool. And I feel like I. There were a lot of things that I kind of realized, and I've. I've decided to just really focus on myself. And I've noticed that as I left the country and the continent and my cell phone, my beautiful cell phone carrier, you know, and got an esim, I was like, oh, I was getting a little anxious about, like, some family drama that's going on and some conflict in my life, and I was getting antsy. And then I went there, and I was like, I'm going to focus on myself and not, you know, harp on that. And within a few days, I started getting messages from people back home being like, hey, we're, like, working on this. We're processing this. And people were messaging me, and I was like, wait, without my meddling, you're all getting, like. You're all, like, healing and improving without me involved. That's fucking shocking to me, the Gemini. But it's also not shocking, and it's also very exciting. So I came home, and I feel like everyone's kind of. I don't know. I feel like things are just. I'm all about now, like, raising the frequency, right? I've watched a lot of this, like, quantum physics shit, and I'm like, sure, if we're all just making ourselves better, then the world will be better. So I'm actually still on a manic high from my trip, but it was really lovely.

[Emma]

That's fine. You're allowed to have. Look, the Way the world is at least welcome back to the usa, by the way.

[Christine]

Thank you.

[Emma]

But any shot of dopamine you can get to your brain, just take it, just.

[Christine]

And I'll be like, they was so interesting to look to see a totally different culture in a way where a lot of things are right in front of you, like sexism and all that stuff is, like, right in front of you. But then our. One of our guides, Bri, made a really good point where she said, the west has all this, too. It's just hidden differently or displayed differently, and we're more comfortable with it because it's not, you know, maybe right in our face, like people with infants, you know, asking for money, that kind of thing. And I was like, that's really well put, you know, so, yeah, it feels like.

[Emma]

I don't know, it feels like a very lovely witchy retreat, like a coven retreat.

[Christine]

Thank you. I'm sure over the next 10 years, you'll all have to hear about it so much that you'll really want to kill me. And, you know, I understand.

[Emma]

So that's fine. I mean, very few people are fortunate enough, interested enough, or able to leave the country to do something that significant that you've always wanted to do.

[Christine]

Yeah, it felt, like, very, like, miraculous. Like, it just kind of appeared. The right timing, the right. I mean, don't ask Blaze. I'm sure for him, it was not the right timing for me to be gone 15 weeks. But, you know. No. 15 weeks, 15 days. Yeah. So. But. But yeah, it felt very like it was a huge privilege. It was really, really cool. Once in a lifetime. I literally. We got to sit and. This is not a joke. Between the paws of the Sphinx at 3am Just our group. No, that's sick. That's like. And I. This is who I am now, Em. I saw a UFO and I didn't even mention it till now.

[Emma]

You have changed.

[Christine]

Is appearing and disappearing in front of me. And then Nicole goes, oh, that's because I activated your third. Your psychic senses. And I went, oh, great. Okay, here we go.

[Emma]

Dare you elaborate on the ufo? I feel like this has been your. Your dream your whole life. I mean, two dreams came true.

[Christine]

It was. It was like, oh, I thought. But part of me was like, oh, exactly. This is how it was meant to happen. Right? Like, I'm laying there looking up at the sky with the Sphinx. I'll post a. I'll send a picture. And I'm, like, looking at the stars, just, like, trying to, you know, just be in the moment. And all of a sudden, I see, like, this little thing come out from behind a star and do, like, a little loop around the star and go back behind it. And I was like, what the fuck was that?

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And it is strange.

[Emma]

What color?

[Christine]

It was just kind of a white. It was like white like the stars, but more glowy. I don't know if that makes sense.

[Emma]

Like, did you see, like, any aliens or, like, a Frappuccino fallout or car keys?

[Christine]

Something, like, dripped on me and I was like, it's sticky. Is that vanilla Frappuccino? She, like, sky wrote, like, she gave.

[Emma]

I think, Xenon just, like, put extra lipstick on that dank is the windshield for you so you could see her.

[Christine]

And I did. And it meant a lot.

[Emma]

Sorry, I didn't mean to take away from her actual story.

[Christine]

No, that's way better. I wish I'd seen Xenon. Maybe it was her. Because then she zipped to another star and I went, oh, God, okay, I am seeing this. Like, I thought maybe I'm just kind of, you know, wanting to see it. Then it zips to another star, but it, like, hides. That was the weird thing. It was like, hiding behind other stars.

[Emma]

That's the beginning of a horror movie. You're alone in the middle of pretty much nowhere.

[Christine]

3Am, the dawn of civilization. I'm, like, laying there, and all of a sudden a fucking airship shows up. And I'm like, oh, fancy that.

[Emma]

And also, you have to be. You have to be careful about who you even tell that to, because, of course, you would see a UFO in an area next to pyramids, who have already gotten a lot of flack for, like, alien. You know what I mean?

[Christine]

I know. And there was so much.

[Emma]

So careful about what you say. But I. I do believe you saw something first.

[Christine]

I know, and I. I'm not trying to say, oh, the aliens then sent me a. A blueprint of how they made the Sphinx. That is not what I'm saying.

[Emma]

Big pyramid.

[Christine]

I've just never seen anything so bizarre. And I'm like, of all very sacred places, I guess it makes sense you would see something kind of supernatural.

[Emma]

But I mean, so in a world. Sorry, but in a. When you actively went on this, like, journey to, like, have, like, a meditative experience, I mean, who. Who knows what you tapped into?

[Christine]

I think that's what it was too, because I was, like, trying to open myself to every. Like, not everything, but, you know, open myself to a lot of things. Learning a lot. Apparently, Nicole, quote unquote, activated my. Whatever I don't know. Psychic powers? I have no idea. She probably didn't say that. But anyway, it was crazy. And then today I thought, you know, I'm really trusting myself and my higher self. Very dangerous. And I thought, I know. I haven't turned on the fireplace in five years. Since we moved in, I've actually never turned them on. And I thought, why can't I figure that out? So I just go over there and I start figuring out how to turn on the fireplace.

[Emma]

Mm.

[Christine]

I figured it out. It worked great.

[Emma]

Did not see this coming.

[Christine]

Okay, I didn't either. Trust me.

[Emma]

I was waiting for the next line to be, and the fire department's downstairs.

[Christine]

And I had to draw my eyebrows on. I will say moonshine discovered fire. That was a downside to the whole experience. But then I went downstairs and I was like, oh, right, we have one in the dining room too. So I started kind of trying to figure that one out, and then I realized, wait, we don't have. There are these gas fireplaces. And I was like, wait, we don't have, like, the key to turn the gas on? And I'm like, that's strange. So I'm kind of standing there and I'm like, googling something. I shit you not, Em. Something clangs. I'm. I'm not going to show you my whole outfit. It's really just shorts and a tank top. Something clangs from out of my shorts and hits the ground. It's the metal fucking key for the gas knob. And I'm like, did that just fall out of my pants?

[Emma]

I fell literally out of your ass. That's crazy.

[Christine]

It fell out of my ass.

[Emma]

You. You were like a chicken and an egg just hatched it.

[Christine]

I was like, where's that key? And I was like, I don't even know if it has one. Like, honestly, I was like, I've never turned it on. I don't even know if it came with one. I don't know if what it would look like the other one upstairs was gold. And then something falls. It clings to the ground. And I go, what just fell out of my pants? And it was that fucking silver key. And I went, that feels.

[Emma]

I mean, that answers our question of, like, do things teleport or move?

[Christine]

I mean, I didn't even feel it on me. Like, it's not like I felt it. Like, it just. I felt it fall out of my pants. It was so fucking weird. Em, that's.

[Emma]

I'm sorry. If we were reading this off of a listener's episode, I'd go, ew. Okay, I don't. It's you. So I'm trying to, like, keep it together, but that's actually, like. That's like, I'm happy for you. And, like, what a nice, kind experience, but also so fucking creepy.

[Christine]

Yeah. Okay, so this is what happened a lot on the trip, is that we started joking that Nicole's butt was a portal, because one time my. I had a little crystal.

[Emma]

So you literally manifested this. Your butt's a portal now?

[Christine]

I didn't mean to. Your butt's a portal. Okay? So then the crystal I was holding fell onto her bus seat, right? And she's talking to someone else, so she's leading forward. And then I started doing that thing, you know, when there's, like, a fabric or cushion seat and you start, like, pressing down so the thing rolls toward you, and it's this teeny, tiny Herkimer diamond, which I feel like maybe you told me about or somebody told me about. They're these from Herkimer, New York, and they're only from there. They're these beautiful little crystals. And it falls there, and I'm, like, pressing it to try and get it to roll toward me. And this is. I'm doing this for, like, 30 seconds. Being like, this is so stupid. And then suddenly she leans back, and I'm like, shit. So I'm like, nicole, I'm sorry, my little Herkimer diamond is under your butt. And she goes, oh, shoot. And before I can say, like, don't do that, she stands up, and I'm like, oh, no, now it's going to, like, fall. And I was like, oh, it's probably stuck to your butt because I don't see it on the seat. It's not there. So she sits back down, and she's like, let me tune in real quick. I'm not even kidding with you. And I was like, okay, Nicole, you tune in. I think it's just stuck to your butt, but whatever.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So she's like, it's in the bag where you were trying to put it. I had this little bag, and I was trying to pour all my crystals into it.

[Emma]

Can you imagine having a. That's so Raven skill where you never lose anything.

[Christine]

Unbelievable. That's infuriating for everyone else.

[Emma]

Like, she would be such a hero at a Super bowl game. Like, like, on the tv. Like, she never lose a remote, and.

[Christine]

She makes a really good chili. So, like, yeah, on. In every way.

[Emma]

Double hitter. I'm telling you.

[Christine]

So she sits there, okay. And she's like, it's in the bag. And I was like, no. I put all the crystals in a bag, and this one fell out. Like, because it was so small, it got stuck to my palm, and I was like, this one fell out. And I put, like, the fool's gold and all the pyrite, all that in there. She goes, check the bag. And I'm like, finally, I checked the bag, and it's there. And I go, what the fuck? I shit you not. She stands up. There is literally a fool's gold under her butt on the seat. And I. It took me, like, a few hours to be like, wait, pyrite is also called fool's gold. Like, that felt like a prank, but it was like, the trippiest thing of, like, I was watching it, trying to get it to, like, come back to my hand. She sat down, stood up, it's gone. Sat down again, and here's fool's gold. And then the other one is, like, in my backpack in a little pouch. Anyway, so that just happens now, I guess. To our butts. They just start maybe put that on my butt.

[Emma]

I'm totally sorry.

[Christine]

Cause it's actually really convenient.

[Emma]

I feel like life had to have been really hard for her at sleepovers because, you know, friends just wanted to test it and just hide shit all the time. Go, now. Where is it? Now where is it?

[Christine]

Yeah, what am I thinking? What number am I thinking?

[Emma]

I mean, could you text her right now and be like, where do you think this thing. Where do you think this gas key came from this morning? And if she doesn't say, out of your fucking butt, I'm gonna text her.

[Christine]

Text her. This is your test. Cool. Also, she listens to the podcast, and she's like. The whole time, she kept going, sure, sure. And she was like, damn it. And everyone's like, what? She's like, that's what Christine always says. And everyone's like, what? And I was like, don't even worry about it, guys. It's. It's. Hello. I haven't responded to her nice voice memo either. I just haven't even.

[Emma]

She's like, I had such a great trip. I learned so much about you.

[Christine]

No response.

[Emma]

It's like, what came out of my butt today? Tell me.

[Christine]

I lost something today and. And it reappeared or. No, I didn't even lose it. I couldn't find it. I didn't even think we had one.

[Emma]

Like, yeah, I would. No one would. If I saw that, I'd come.

[Christine]

How do I know? Like, I've never Used it.

[Emma]

Clearly, that's an outdated thing that nobody has in their home anymore, so I'm not even gonna look for it.

[Christine]

And my pants don't even have pockets. Like, I don't know. It's so fucking weird.

[Emma]

It begs the question, which ghost did it? Like, was it that someone that just, like, lived in your house before? Was it, like, whoever you channeled when you were on your trip? Is it, like, someone that always watches over you? Like, there could be so many different.

[Christine]

Is it just Nicole? Is it just Nicole showing up in my house? Would be.

[Emma]

Or it could be someone who just really liked a fireplace, and finally, you want to turn on the fires in your house. And they're so excited, and they were like, take it. Take it.

[Christine]

Start turning moonshine. He was probably like, you just taught me about this.

[Emma]

He. He certainly told the ghost, put that in her.

[Christine]

But turn this one on for me too. Yeah. I'm so sorry I've talked so long, but thank you for asking. It was really great. I'm sure. We went to. For 15 days straight. We went to, like, multiple sites a day. A lot of very profound things happen, so I'm sure they'll pop up as I barge my way into the conversation.

[Emma]

No, don't. I look. Not again. Not a lot of people get to go out of the country, let alone specifically Egypt. So you're kind of our tour guide right now.

[Christine]

So I learned a lot. I was, like, the dork at the front with the tour guide, Ahmed, who's sure. And I was just like. Like a huge nerd. I was, like, taking notes.

[Emma]

Did you bring back merch? What was your favorite thing you ate? And what was your favorite souvenir? Well, I guess it's the same question as merch merchant food. What did you get?

[Christine]

Shockingly, my favorite food there. I famously don't say a hamburger or something famous. They do make a lot of club sandwiches, which is weird for a place that doesn't eat pork. But anyway, interesting. Lentil soup. I famously cannot stand soup. Any type of soup. I don't like soup. I don't eat soup. This lentil soup, I have not stopped thinking about it. So good. Random. I don't think that would be something I ever would have thought I'd like so much. Lentil soup was the. Was the favorite. Most of the rest of food was, like, chicken, rice, you know, just kind of the. The standard. I. We went to a papyrus school, and I bought this print that they. They make the papyrus out of the papyrus plant. We got to see how they do that. And then we bought this print. We went to.

[Emma]

I was waiting for a papyrus font situation there. That's why my face looked weird.

[Christine]

But whatever, you know, they wrote it in hieroglyphs, but maybe on the bottom I can. I can write in papyrus.

[Emma]

Just translate it in papyrus.

[Christine]

And then I. We went to a rug weaving place where they make these silk rugs. And of course I spent far too much money on a rug for my downstairs.

[Emma]

But I thought, I think that's worth the money. Like you're making it yourself in Egypt. Are you kidding?

[Christine]

Placing it from overstock.com from seven years ago. So I figured it's about time for an upgrade.

[Emma]

Divided by seven. And that's how much you there. You know, it's worth. It's worth it.

[Christine]

Payment. Yeah. So that's that. It was beautiful. I bought some like bracelets and things, but not too much.

[Emma]

I. I have to ask the qu. I imagine most people are wondering this pyramids you went. You saw. Were you in one? What did it look like? How did it feel? Did you see king tutorial or any like any landmarks we would know about that you saw?

[Christine]

I. We went to the Great Pyramid and we got solo access. Shut the up. Three in the morning, we got together.

[Emma]

How did you do this? Is this just like a thing that you could pay for? Like it's like a VIP situation or.

[Christine]

I think maybe it's something that I don't know the ins and outs of on purpose, but you don't need to know.

[Emma]

Sure, you're right.

[Christine]

I think Ahmed just knows how to get us cool places. And so I was like, don't question it. I guess. Yeah, I'll probably check with Nicole to make sure I could say all this. Just. I mean, I don't think there's any. I mean, do anything.

[Emma]

Ahmed's a name.

[Christine]

Yeah, exactly. And it was all very approved by the government, which let's.

[Emma]

I have a feeling that really not many Egyptians are listening to the show. So I think we could probably skate past.

[Christine]

No, I think so. I mean, shout out if you are your pretty cool. Hey, Ahmed. He might be.

[Emma]

Sorry. Landmarks. Landmarks.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah, we went to the Great Pyramid. We went to. I think my favorite there was like the. The temple, one of the chapels to Isis. We went and I had a very profound experience. I just started like swelling up. No sobbing. Like, not sobbing. Like it was bizarre. I had this like full on.

[Emma]

Do you feel comfortable to talk about that or. No?

[Christine]

Yeah, it was so. Isis is such a beautiful story because she. She and Osiris were, like, the first. I'm gonna say this wrong, and please don't. Please understand that I know that I'm saying it wrong, if you're a historian, but Isis and Osiris, slightly awkward. They were brother and sister also husband, wife. It was a long time ago, and Isis was born. This is according to our tour guide, with her son kind of inside her, but not, like, for sort of like how women are born with ovaries, you know?

[Emma]

Sure.

[Christine]

And Set, the evil brother seeking to take the throne killed Osiris. And that was their. Actually, their. Their other brother. And Isis, out of deep grief, went to collect all the pieces of her brother, because Osiris had been dismembered into 14 pieces and spread across Egypt. And so she. She turned herself into a vulture and she collected all her pieces of her beloved brother, and she made him whole again. And when she did that, the kind of dormant child inside her was fertilized and Horus was born. And he's a falcon God.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And he kind of was the one who brought the knowledge to the pharaohs. And so Isis spent her until he was 10 years old, which is kind of the age that children would go out and, like, follow their dad and go work and, you know. But until 10, they would stay with their mothers. And so the story is that because she had turned herself into this vulture, she was able to turn herself into a variety of different animals to protect him as he grew up, because his Uncle Set was trying to kill him again for the throne. So she just transformed into all these different animals to keep her son safe. And then when he was old, he kind of went out on his own. And I just. I had this, like, very. We did a meditation on, like. Like, motherhood and the grief of motherhood. And, yeah, it just was like a very. It just hit me very hard. And I think I just was thinking of, like.

[Emma]

Sure.

[Christine]

Being a mother. My mother, my dad's mother, my mother's mother, like, all the way back. And it was just a very, very profound thing. And I swear to God, I've never. Like, I didn't. Of course, I didn't bring the tissues in there. So I had my mom's scarf that I was wearing, and I just. Nodding.

[Emma]

She's not getting that back.

[Christine]

Yeah, I literally told her. I was like, I have to put that in vinegar or something.

[Emma]

I'm going to a rug making class tomorrow. I'm gonna make you a new scar.

[Christine]

I'll make you a new one. Anyway, so they were just, like, things like, that. That just, like, hit me. And then they were like, okay, let's take a big group picture and then we all get on the bus. But everyone, half the people are, like, crying because they've had some experience. We're journaling. It was all very, like, cathartic. And it was very cool because when you're crying, it wasn't like, oh, what's wrong? You know, it's like everyone's kind of having their own experiences. So you don't feel like you need to.

[Emma]

Like, everyone gets it.

[Christine]

Everyone gets it. Yeah. And there's no pressure. Like, you need to.

[Emma]

It's a really, like, safe way to have that experience. Yeah. That's nice.

[Christine]

It was cool. And I made a lot of very cool friends all over. All over the world, so it was very.

[Emma]

Sounds like you joined a covenant, my friend.

[Christine]

I think I might have. And if not, I'm going to pretend.

[Emma]

I did because, yeah, if you're listening, any of you, don't, don't deny it.

[Christine]

It's.

[Emma]

Sorry, it's much cooler this way.

[Christine]

You're part of it now.

[Emma]

Just a ragtag team.

[Christine]

Oh, I did bring my laboon special people because Leona said, you cannot bring any of them. I said, can I bring a stuffed animal to do Flat Stanley in front of, like, the pyramids? And she said, my stuffed animals are safer with me. And I said, okay, I can't argue with that. And then she said, you can take one of your stuffed animals and then point it at my labua. And I went, cool, pretending it's yours and taking it with me. Excellent to know that a four year.

[Emma]

Old knows you well enough to know, like, you wouldn't dare touch my shoes.

[Christine]

And she's right. I was like, oh, fuck. So I brought a Labubu. I said, leona, what should I call in? Said Leona. And I went, okay, Leona Labubu is.

[Emma]

Actually a great name.

[Christine]

No. And so I was like, this is Leona Labubu. And, like, I was embarrassed at first. And then about, like, halfway through the trip, people were like, oh, my God, have you seen that little thing, Christy? That monster? Like, most people didn't even know what they were. And all of a sudden, like, people were like, can I have her for a little while? And would, like, take pictures and like, that's cute. Anyway, it was very fun. And then we. We did like a little Labubu circle where we put him in the middle, and we were like, labu, boo. And we were to be like, this is our new coven of Lab.

[Emma]

The irony of Leona thinking her items weren't safe when, like, for once, you're in a circle full of psychics who could just. I'm just like, you'll never lose it. Yeah.

[Christine]

I'm elevating it to godlike status in front of the sacred pyramid.

[Emma]

They're having, like, a weird seance with it.

[Christine]

Yeah. Anyway, so other than that, everything's pretty normal. How are you, Em? I'm so sorry to have talked so much. No, thank you for opening that door for me.

[Emma]

Nothing I did was as interesting as that, so please have the floor. Nothing interesting's going on over here. We're good.

[Christine]

You have beautiful wall art behind you, so I think any hotel room that you're in.

[Emma]

I know.

[Christine]

Just the vibes.

[Emma]

I know. Well, it's nice to be back at a hotel. I haven't been in a hotel in months and months, so. Right. I don't remember where I've been lately.

[Christine]

I don't either. And I'm just staring at you blankly. I have no idea. And it has ac, right?

[Emma]

It has ac. Thank God. I asked Christine early on if anyone could. She could hear my ac. And honestly, if you said yes, I would have kept it on anyway.

[Christine]

I would never have said yes, even if it was super loud.

[Emma]

Thank you. No. I am seeing friends tomorrow in Philly, which this is like our first.

[Christine]

Oh, fun.

[Emma]

I don't know if this is. I'm going to absolutely force that it become like an annual thing, but this is our first time where, like, a bunch of my childhood friends that all live in different areas have, like, tried to all do a get together somewhere. So cute. So we're going to Philly, and then because I'm trying to do my 50 states, by 35, I'll be near Delaware, which is like the last one on the East Coast I need. And so, of course, my mom just decided that we're going to Delaware. So as soon as she found out I was on the east coast, she decided I wasn't going home as soon as I'd like. So we are going to Delaware. After I see my friends, so. And everyone I tell that I'm going to Delaware, they all go, why? Because apparently they've gone and it's. There's nothing much there.

[Christine]

It's sort of like, you go there if you, like, know someone there, you're like, yeah, school there.

[Emma]

You know, if you know if you're.

[Christine]

Joe Biden or if you're Joe Biden, etc.

[Emma]

I think, like, the only two famous people from There are, like, Joe Biden, like, Aubrey Plaza or something. But.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah.

[Emma]

Which I did find an interview where she recommended things. So I'm just gonna do an Aubrey Posito, I guess. But I. I'm excited to go. I'm excited to, like, check one off my list. And I like that the town is the town, the state is the size of a town, and so we're gonna knock out like six cities in a weekend. So I'm pretty excited about that.

[Christine]

Two birds, one scone, you know.

[Emma]

So that's kind of all I'm doing. The reason I drink this week is because I'm gonna be gone. This was my first time boarding hankies.

[Christine]

That's my baby.

[Emma]

He's probably not doing good right now.

[Christine]

He's doing great.

[Emma]

What if he's like, maybe he's having a party. But as you know. Because you're the one who recommended this dog place to me, because Gigi used to go there. Yes, they have. They post, like, regular Instagram videos and stuff like that so you can check on your dog at all times. And they like a live camera. But so in every video, he has just looked so scared out of his mind.

[Christine]

I know, I. But I bet you, like, two days in, he'll be like the rock star of the group.

[Emma]

It does help that his best friend at the dog park also goes there for daycare during the day.

[Christine]

Oh, so he gets to have play dates.

[Emma]

So at least. And also, this is very. I'm sorry, now I'm also stealing time here.

[Christine]

But it's not stealing if it's our time that we are only using. I mean, well, it's their time too. But listen, they've committed.

[Emma]

They hit sorry for your time if you're, like, trying to, like, just wait for us to finish so you can press pause and then go to the grocery store or something.

[Christine]

Sorry if you're that one person who always comments what time we start our stories. Because you're like, any second now.

[Emma]

Although I highly appreciate that person also.

[Christine]

We see you and we respect you.

[Emma]

We acknowledge what's happening there. We get it. But. So he was apparently just like, full on panicked every time I took him to doggy daycare. And I mean, it's like, it's a nice place, but we are, I think, like his fifth or sixth home. And so I just. I'm constantly terrified that he thinks ye.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

That we're not coming back. And I guess he warms up after like an hour and he's okay. He's not totally panic stricken. But he still would. As soon as I'm there, he wants.

[Christine]

Like, get the out of Gigi's kind of that way.

[Emma]

But I, I didn't know this, but I guess Cosmos. Sorry, Cosmos's friend at the dog park.

[Christine]

I was like, cosmopolitan magazine?

[Emma]

No, Cosmo. Odd parent. Excuse me. Cosmo is one of his best friends. And I guess Cosmo's parents were dropping him off and saw Hank through the window. And they're like, oh, my God, Hank. And then said, hanging. Cosmo are best friends. So then the dog park decided to put all the other dogs away and let Hank and Cosmo have alone fun time. And they got to play date their personal play day. And apparently that really helped Hank warm up and feel safe when he had like a buddy.

[Christine]

So I'm so anxious when I prescribe, prescribe when I recommend suggest places because I'm like, I, it was great for me. I just don't ever want anyone to feel like, you know.

[Emma]

No.

[Christine]

So I'm so happy, I'm so happy that they're just. I love that place. Place.

[Emma]

I know. I, I, he's, he, they seem very lovely there. I don't think, like anything bad is happening to him. I think he's just scared.

[Christine]

Yeah. I mean, yeah.

[Emma]

And so sorry.

[Christine]

I'm looking for my mouse. That's why I keep ducking under the. Not a real mouse. Sorry to clarify. Not a real mouse.

[Emma]

Oh, by the way, another reason I drink is because. Oh, she just walked away. Okay. Another reason I drink is because we have a mouse in our backyard.

[Christine]

And that's a real one, I'm assuming.

[Emma]

A real one who has charged me.

[Christine]

Fun. Charged you? Oh, no.

[Emma]

Ran directly at me. And I just, I, I had a camera back there. Obviously I got video of me going.

[Christine]

Okay, forget Egypt that. But it's what we should have immediately talked about. Please.

[Emma]

It was, it was horrifying. And I can't tell if it was a mouse or a rat. I know. Apparently there's a difference between them. It looked like a big ass princess bride rat to me.

[Christine]

Yeah. What are those called? Of unusual size.

[Emma]

Yeah. Something of un Road. Unusual side R Us.

[Christine]

Unusual side R Us. Yeah.

[Emma]

That's what is living in my backyard, by the way.

[Christine]

Cool.

[Emma]

And then the front yard is coyotes who are literally bigger than Hank. They're wolves. And one of them just walked. It was like, like, like I owe money to the mob and now they're intimidating me.

[Christine]

They're just like stalking in front. Just to give you a message.

[Emma]

The other day was literally just Just pacing our street, just up and down walking, like, waiting for something. And then, like, I'm on the neighbor's app, and everyone.

[Christine]

It's all people talk about. I'm like, next door. And.

[Emma]

And, well, like, the coyotes have been successful.

[Christine]

No.

[Emma]

And so now Hank is only allowed in the backyard because there's tall gates, but that's where the rat is. I can't. No, I know. I just. I don't. I can't have anything. You know what I mean?

[Christine]

Our corgis were attacked by a coyote once, and they were so stupid that the girl won. Ran after it into the woods, and my stepmom goes. She starts running with a tennis racket. I'm like, I don't know. So then I start running. I was like, 13, and my step one goes, go get them. And so I'm running into the woods.

[Emma]

And I kind of hit towards coyotes.

[Christine]

Literally, go get the coyote. I'm like. And then I'm running in the woods anyway. But this is like the woods of Ohio. You're in a bit. A major metropolis. It's just so trippy.

[Emma]

Well, a lot of people think that, like, because I'm in. In la, that I wouldn't be near a bunch of, like, wildlife. But Burbank is right next to a bunch of mountains.

[Christine]

And so they come. Mountains.

[Emma]

They come down at night from the mountains looking for something to eat. And there's a. Really. As we all know, because I've talked about this before, there's a big skunk population. So I think they usually eat the skunks.

[Christine]

I see, I see.

[Emma]

And sometimes they eat things that aren't the skunks. And there's raccoons. I mean, but so Hank would. Could absolutely not survive. He. His favorite thing to do is run towards danger.

[Christine]

So that's kind of. Exactly. That's like my corgi. It's like Geo. It's like, where are your instincts, my friend?

[Emma]

Yeah, there's a guy at the dog park who. I don't know how else but it. But he. There's some mental health concerns there. And there have been times where we've had to call the police because he was a danger. And only when he's a danger does Hank run right towards him. And I'm like, get the. The. Away from him. I'm like, what are you doing? Yeah, he's there. And there's really nothing we can do. There's nothing the cops can do because he lives nearby. And so every time they've shown up, he's already like back in his house. So they can't go in without a. It's a whole thing. The dog park is a wild.

[Christine]

Thanks. Like, I'll handle it.

[Emma]

Don't worry if I rub up on him and hug him while he's.

[Christine]

Yep. Vigilante justice.

[Emma]

Yeah, it's like Batman. Anyway, I don't know how we got here. I, I'm, I'm. I'm drinking because I had to say goodbye to my little puppy dog for 10 days. We've never been away for 10 days from each other where he wasn't at least at home with a rover. This is his first time away for 10 days, which scares me. And there's a mouse. And then somehow equally as scary as one mouse, there's like hundreds of coyotes that are trying to kill my dog.

[Christine]

I'll probably eat the mouse if that gives you any condolences as an hors d'.

[Emma]

Oeuvre. And a moose bush, as you said.

[Christine]

To just eat that thing. Just one bite.

[Emma]

And a mouse. Boosh.

[Christine]

A mouse bush. Listen, you know, I don't usually like your. Your on off the cuff puns, but that was a good one.

[Emma]

All right, Christine. Well, do you drink anything today?

[Christine]

You know, I brought multiple options. I brought my Vitamin water.

[Emma]

I think you're the last person on earth who still drinks Vitamin Water.

[Christine]

I am, I'm pretty sure. And every time I go in there, I'm convinced they're not gonna be in stock anymore. And they are like any day now, they're gonna get rid of these. And then I also brought this just in case. It's a 19 Crimes bottle of wine in case things go south. And I brought a bottle opener or wine key. So beautiful. Bring one. I just found one in my drawer. Because of course there was one in my drawer.

[Emma]

You know, I gotta say, Vitamin Water at. At their peak when they first came out. Excuse me. They were incredible. Like the packaging alone. Do you remember all the funny little quippy labels? What does that one say? Did they get rid of them?

[Christine]

Lame. It says tropical energy for riding the workday wave. That's rad, man.

[Emma]

I feel like that's literally the dumbest one I've ever heard.

[Christine]

They used to be funnier.

[Emma]

They used to be like a paragraph and they were all quippy. And one of them was like. Like Jennifer Aniston? Yes. Like they, they were like. It felt like a cards against humanity or something. They made no sense at the time. I loved them back then.

[Christine]

We were in high school, so we were like, oh, yeah, this is Edgy So edgy. Now there's liquid death, which is like, we'll decapitate you and your dog. And you're. We're like, yay. That's hilarious. It's like, I think the bar has just gotten really high.

[Emma]

It's like the frog slowly boiling. It's like the drinks have to get more up.

[Christine]

You have to get more aggressive and violent before we drink them.

[Emma]

Speaking of aggressive and violent, I'm usually a firm loyalist to Arizona iced tea cans.

[Christine]

I know.

[Emma]

And they've recently came out with a. A straight out of Brooklyn chocolate egg cream. Like, basically, which if you don't know what an egg cream is, it's. Basically, it's like a sparkling chocolate milk, which I'm not for.

[Christine]

Not for me.

[Emma]

I can't imagine that Canned.

[Christine]

Sorry. Arizona did this.

[Emma]

They did it.

[Christine]

Oh, no.

[Emma]

Arizona iced tea made in Brooklyn. That's what they're promoting right now. Specifically made in Brooklyn chocolate egg creams in their cans. And I'm like, I get that. You could. You can. You have a lot of power since you're only asking 99 cents of me, but I won't do that. I'll do a lot of things for 99 cents. I won't do that.

[Christine]

But I won't do that.

[Emma]

I've been spending a lot of money recently, but I kind of girl mathed it for myself, where I don't really feel like I'm spending all that money because I use Rocket Money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. So basically, Rocket Money went through all my subscriptions and said, you're paying for this. You're paying for this, you're paying for this. And I went, I don't want any of that. Put that away. Get it out of here. Thank you so much. Rocket Money shows you all your expenses in one place, including your subscriptions you forgot about. And if you see a subscription you no longer want, Rocket Money will help you cancel it. I did that with, like, three random online magazines I had subscribed to. At some point, if you've got a goal you'd like to save for, Rocket Money can analyze your accounts to find the best time each month to put. Put extra money aside. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year. When using all the app's premium features, you can cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com Drink today. That's RocketMoney.com Drink RocketMoney.com Drink this podcast is sponsored by the crisp, refreshing Angry Orchard. Listen, guys, there's a litany of things that we shouldn't get angry about, but let's be honest, sometimes it's hard not to be. My dog has become friends with the earwigs, the bugs that pinch out in the yard. And every time he goes outside, now, he carries them in. Now I get to pick up live, pinching earwigs every time he comes back in from the bathroom. That's what gets me angry right now. But you know what you can do instead of being me and being angry, you don't have to be angry. You just get an angry orchard. Feels chill and refreshed. You don't have to be pissed off. You just have a tasty orchard. And welcome to freaky season. Because Angry Orchard has partnered with Jason Universe this fall to bring some new sweet treats. Probably my favorite thing about Angry Orchard is that right now they have a new limited edition Glow in the Dark, hello Thriller pack that includes four unique flavors, including blood orange, inspired by the Jason. Nothing I love more than apple flavors, blood orange flavors, and anything that glows in the dark. So on my behalf, please, please, please go pick this up. Grab freaky Good cider from Angry orchard@angry orchard.com Halloween. And while you're there, watch the new Jason vignette, Sweet Revenge and shop the collab merch. And please drink responsibly. Here's a story for you, Christine, and I think you'll like this one. She sounds like I'm going off the title here because I did these notes like two weeks ago, three weeks ago. We're gonna.

[Christine]

I know. Me too. I'm like, this is gonna be an interesting one. We're just like, wow. Wow.

[Emma]

Couldn't tell you a single thing that happens. But based off the title alone, I feel like we can both relate to her. This is the story of Ellen Sadler, AKA the Sleeping Girl of Turval.

[Christine]

Is this. Is this the chick that slept forever?

[Emma]

Honestly, maybe. I don't totally remember anymore. I'm imagining. So why else would you be called the Sleeping Girl?

[Christine]

I guess so. Right?

[Emma]

Don't sleep.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

So again, we were supposed to do these notes a long time ago, and then something got in the way, and then you went to Egypt.

[Christine]

It was me.

[Emma]

It turned into us not doing the notes that I prepped a long time ago. So now we're all gonna learn together. So this is apparently in the 1850s. Travel back with me, will you? And Ellen Sadler lived in Turval.

[Christine]

I'm in an asylum. Sorry, it didn't last very long. I mean, I have a tattoo and I'm not wearing pants, so I think I was bound to really get in trouble.

[Emma]

Okay, you really well done. Really got me there.

[Christine]

I should probably not be drinking wine, so I'm gonna put that away for a bit.

[Emma]

No, no, no, no, no. Bring it back. Bring it back.

[Christine]

Maybe. We'll see.

[Emma]

Ellen Sadler lived in Turval, which is in Buckingham Shire. Buckinghamshire. Buckinghamshire.

[Christine]

Buckinghamshire.

[Emma]

Buckingham. I don't ever know how the people in UK say this, but.

[Christine]

Worcestershire. Worcestershire.

[Emma]

I'll never know that one.

[Christine]

Say that.

[Emma]

You said it exactly probably right. And I still won't be able to repeat that to you. Worcestershire. I have no clue. I'm so sorry. Anyway, in Turval, the population is 400, which is double. Triple my high school. So.

[Christine]

Yes, for. For everybody's. So everyone can get an idea. It's Triple M's high school class. Does that help?

[Emma]

That's literally how my brain handled it. So however you need to think of 400, you do that.

[Christine]

Cool.

[Emma]

She was the 10th of 12 kids, and her dad died when she was a baby. But her mom, Ann, got remarried to her stepdad named Thomas. So Thomas and Anne. Ellen lives with them. And in 1871, she's 11 years old. The family's very poor, and so Ellen was sent to live with a family and work as their nursemaid slash nanny, which. They're two different words. I think they're the same thing at 11.

[Christine]

Oy, I know.

[Emma]

But also 1871. So I'm imagining just rules were different than.

[Christine]

Right. It's like in dog years, she's like actually like 40 or something.

[Emma]

During this time, she as a nurse, maid, slash nanny. During this time, she began suffering from headaches and intense drowsiness. She actually. It got so bad that she couldn't do her job. So her boss, the family she worked for, they sent her back home to go have a doctor look at her. The doctor's name was Dr. Heyman. And Heyman discovered that she had, quote, glandular swellings. Okay. And an abscess on the back near the nape of her neck or the bottom of her head.

[Christine]

That does not sound good.

[Emma]

So, yeah, to me that sounds like she swollen glands and then she has like a cyst.

[Christine]

It's like a tumor or something. Or like a growth. Yeah.

[Emma]

And obviously in today's world, we Would say biopsy, but instead they just kind of took a whack at it. And not a. Literally.

[Christine]

Oh. I was like, hey, that's not gonna help.

[Emma]

Al have seen those videos of people who have like a weird like buildup of something in their hand and then people just whack it with a textbook until it goes away. Sorry, have you not seen this?

[Christine]

No. I mean, I'm gonna Google it later.

[Emma]

There's like, there's like, like some sort of like buildup like of liquid or pus or something in their hands and it looks like a giant cyst. And then they just take. How make their friend just like smack it as hard they can. It's on the screen.

[Christine]

The fact that it's a textbook that tells me this is like not something you should be doing if you're. It's maybe not a high schooler. Right? Yeah. I feel like this is. Is.

[Emma]

I feel like we're ignoring a bigger.

[Christine]

Problem if you're just implies juveniles because they have textbooks on hand. So. Yeah.

[Emma]

They also have tick tock, which is how I found out about it.

[Christine]

There you go. That's it. Yep.

[Emma]

So anyway, he took a mental whack at it of like, what could this be? Because I certainly have never heard of a biopsy before. So what. What else is there? He decided that this is probably symptoms of a spinal disease. And so he went to her to go stay in a hospital for a while. But the family couldn't afford it because they're not having a lot of money. The friends. Oh, their friends end up pulling some strings and get her into a hospital for 18 weeks, which. Holy crap, that 18 weeks. The bill in the USA in 2025 would be out of control.

[Christine]

Think about how bored you would be back then. You don't even have a tv, let alone like an iPad or a tick tock.

[Emma]

I feel like books just came out at that point.

[Christine]

I mean, just discovered books.

[Emma]

It's like you just look at the wall and just keep doing it.

[Christine]

It.

[Emma]

But they. So she was there for 18 whole weeks in the hospital, but they deemed her incurable. Which I guess after 18 weeks, if there's nothing you can do.

[Christine]

Yeah, you know.

[Emma]

So they ended up sending her home without a diagnosis. Two days after coming home, though, Ellen still wasn't feeling well. Later that day, she had either a or multiple seizures.

[Christine]

Oh no.

[Emma]

I'm also unsure if it was her first time having one. I didn't see anything about that. But she at least had one seizure that was pretty intense. After this, she. This Is a quote. She turned over on her left side with her hand under her head and the lower extremities drawn upwards, AKA she was in a fetal position, which I imagine after an intense seizure, you would also just want to ball up and cry, sleep, anything. And like that. He.

[Christine]

Probably human nature.

[Emma]

And you get tired after seizures, too, so. So she kind of curled into the field position, and once she was in this position, she fell asleep. And then no matter what her family or Dr. Heyman tried, they could not wake her up.

[Christine]

So remember, she already had nightmare.

[Emma]

She already had her headache, she had intense drowsiness. Then she goes into a hospital. None of that gets cured. So she comes home still tired, has a seizure, and then falls asleep.

[Christine]

Oh, my God.

[Emma]

I would just assume she didn't make it. Yeah, like, oh, do. You had the seizure and then you're. Now your body is.

[Christine]

I mean, now you're unconscious and unable to be woken up.

[Emma]

So she was unable to be woken up, and she remained literally in the same position. It's not like she was sleeping and kind of tossing and turning. She just stayed in the same fucking position. Would you like to guess for how long?

[Christine]

A week? I don't know.

[Emma]

Nine years.

[Christine]

No. Nine years.

[Emma]

Nine years.

[Christine]

What the.

[Emma]

At first. Yeah, I know. I was like, oh, this is gonna be good. At first.

[Christine]

Nine years.

[Emma]

Thank you. Yes.

[Christine]

Get out of town.

[Emma]

Which, like, at that point, make it 10. Hit the decade mark. You know what I'm saying?

[Christine]

But, you know, I always disagree on that. You and I have different views of that. Because I feel like nine strikes harder than ten. Ten. I just assume people are rounding up.

[Emma]

That's fair, I guess.

[Christine]

I. Mental games.

[Emma]

I. Whether or not she made it to 10, as her, like, family member, I'd still call it 10.

[Christine]

I'd be like, you'd be like, up to turn 20 or 30 by now.

[Emma]

For five decades. But half my life. So, yeah, nine years. And at first everyone thought she was dead because duh. But I guess they kept waiting for her body to get cold. And it wasn't getting cold for them to react and, like, host a funeral or something, but she just kept just being warm. And she had the faintest but an existing pulse and an existing breath.

[Christine]

She's basically, like, in a coma, but without any sort of life support.

[Emma]

In today's world, I think we would say homegirl was in a fucking coma after a brain malfunctional seizure.

[Christine]

Jesus Christ. And with that growth on her neck, like, oh, my God.

[Emma]

Yeah, I think that would be a pretty easy diagnosis.

[Christine]

This is like, nightmare, nightmare, nightmare.

[Emma]

So let's put that out there now, like, we're aware of what this is, but back in the day, this was spooky, right?

[Christine]

Yeah. It's like a medical marvel, right? Yeah.

[Emma]

Needed a doctor.

[Christine]

It's like Guinness Book of World's Records. Like, let's put sparkles on it and be like, look how crazy this is.

[Emma]

Yeah. It's like, ah. It did not take long for people to find out about her somehow being alive. Like, I guess this whole town, there's only 400 people. But maybe she was the first coma and they just didn't know these existed because books just came out, remember? So.

[Christine]

Well, yeah. Typically, like, if you go into a. Books just came out, and it's just the Bible, so it's like, what the. They're like, well, Jesus and Lazarus and all that, but, like, like, beyond that, we're not really sure what's going on. I do feel like probably even if you did know about comas, you probably wouldn't survive very long. So I imagine nine years. Like, that's. Yeah, that must be something different in.

[Emma]

Nine years of every day going any day now, like, having to check her.

[Christine]

Pulse every day to be like, is my baby still alive? I know.

[Emma]

I can't even imagine I'm telling this to a mother. I can't imagine, like. Like Leona just falling asleep and never waking up. But she's, like, still with us. But is she. You know what I mean?

[Christine]

Is she eating? What's happening? I'm like, so I have so many questions. I'm sure you're gonna answer.

[Emma]

I'm gonna answer some of them, but I have my own questions because I'm like, what the hell? Okay, so maybe I'm gonna answer them because I did these notes so long ago.

[Christine]

Yeah. You're like, I've got the same questions, Christine. Let's find out together.

[Emma]

And it may just might have answers. And by just might, I mean, really, I might, but I might not.

[Christine]

And if you don't, Jack will cut this out and no one will ever hear it.

[Emma]

That's right.

[Christine]

Right.

[Emma]

It did not take long for people to find out about this, quote, medical marvel. She gained global attention with all sorts of people and doctors coming in to see her sleeping. Even literally, the Prince of Wales, who would one day be king. Edward vii, he came and laid hands on her to heal her. I know papers, they. So more than books were around papers called Ellen situation. One of the most incredible, inexplicable physiological phenomenon that has ever been Encountered amateur.

[Christine]

Extra. Extra. Yeah, they have, like, exclamation points in the headlines and.

[Emma]

Yeah, well.

[Christine]

Oi.

[Emma]

Missed that.

[Christine]

Get this paper.

[Emma]

This little girl, she's just sleeping and sleeping and sleeping. Luckiest girl alive. I don't know.

[Christine]

Whoa. Who's that? I want him to come back more often.

[Emma]

I think that was also Juniper and the small zeds.

[Christine]

No wonder I didn't recognize it. I was like, who's this? This gentleman.

[Emma]

Your cat just came over here to tell me all about something.

[Christine]

Okay. Nicole just answered. She said, my butt portal, question mark. So, like, kind of.

[Emma]

That's a would they, won't they kind of answer.

[Christine]

Wait, it all makes sense. Our portals are connected. Okay, this is getting in.

[Emma]

That's Human Centipede.

[Christine]

I'm so sorry. I regret saying any of that.

[Emma]

Keep your butt away from my butt. I'm so scared over here.

[Christine]

I'm gonna say that her butt portal. Hold on.

[Emma]

Cloned itself?

[Christine]

Yeah, it has. It's a communicable disease now. I've gotten it, too. It's commune. It's contagious.

[Emma]

I can't wait to hear her response to what happened.

[Christine]

I did put pressure on. I said, em and I are recording, and I have a pop quiz for the psychic. So I feel like I put a lot of pressure. So she definitely just said, my portal. And then. And a laughing emoji. And I said, it's contagious. It fell out of my pants, and we'll see what happens. Happens.

[Emma]

Anyway, it's like, my butt actually. My butt actually.

[Christine]

My portal.

[Emma]

Your immortal portal, some might say.

[Christine]

You know what? That's hot.

[Emma]

Thank you. Can we kiss now? Okay. It did. It did not take long for people to find out. Literally, the Prince of Wales even came to do. To come see her. People came in with all sorts of suggestions on how to wake her up. They did the classics. Trying to sneak pins in so they could poke her when they viewed her.

[Christine]

Fucking sick. Was she like a museum exhibit? A zoo?

[Emma]

I mean, she's a living. I mean, not to be like. Not to objectify a person, but this is a living human science experiment at this point for them.

[Christine]

Yeah, they're. I mean, they're treating it like one for sure. Yeah.

[Emma]

They're just like, who. What. What is this about? I mean, I imagine a world where you'd never heard of a coma, and all of a sudden, this is happening. You would have to go see this.

[Christine]

It's like Sleeping Beauty, but in real life. Yeah.

[Emma]

Yeah. I wonder if she was the inspo.

[Christine]

Maybe. Although I Think that came out way longer.

[Emma]

Way before 1871.

[Christine]

Oh, isn't it like a Grimm's fairy tale thing?

[Emma]

Well, I don't know. Anyway, so people tried to wake her up in all sorts of ways. I dare don't even want to think about what people. If people were touching her, I don't even want to know. But Ellen became a tourist attraction in town and her mother welcomed people to view her. However, it was in hopes that somebody could cure her and wake her up.

[Christine]

So they charged.

[Emma]

I will find out. I don't know. Oh, wait, here's your answer. Some people got really weird with it, and they would ask Anne, after viewing Ellen's body, if they could have strands of her hair as souvenirs.

[Christine]

Goodbye.

[Emma]

So they could bring it back to their family and say, I saw essentially Sleeping Beauty.

[Christine]

What the.

[Emma]

Anne was fine with it for a while until so many people wanted Shreyas that Ellen was going ball called.

[Christine]

What the.

[Emma]

Imagine waking up and now you're nine years older and have no hair. I'm sure it grew back by then. People also started leaving money donations to help the family.

[Christine]

Okay, so that's nice.

[Emma]

That's nice. But I also don't know if that's like, their workaround of, like, charging her or being charged, like, you know, if they're like, we. We take.

[Christine]

Make donations, what you can kind of thing.

[Emma]

Yeah. But maybe also I'm like, just being, like, negative. And everyone was just very generous. But people started leaving money for the family, which in hindsight was a considerable amount of money. Probably enough that they could live off of it. In which case you wonder how much they were requesting of that.

[Christine]

Well, they've got 12 kids.

[Emma]

Yeah. And they were poor. And now they've got like. Basically they've got. But the equivalent of having someone on, like, life support.

[Christine]

The Prince of Wales shows up, he better fucking make a donation. You know what I mean? If he's going to be, like, trying his own weird test of laying his.

[Emma]

Hands on her, you know, he tipped poorly, for sure.

[Christine]

I'm sure he did. I don't.

[Emma]

He was like that first. I'll give you a hug. I'll sign something.

[Christine]

Yuck. No one asked for that.

[Emma]

So people left money donations. However, they were quite adamant that they were never asking people for donations. People were just doing it. They were saying that quite a lot.

[Christine]

Oh, okay, okay.

[Emma]

At one point, the local government got involved to make sure that Ellen was actually getting proper medical attention and nourishment and she wasn't being exploited and kept under in some way.

[Christine]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[Emma]

Because a few years before this, there was a girl in the area named Sarah who allegedly refused to eat, but was surviving despite not eating. And it turned out that she was actually a victim. Now, Munchausen by proxy. Oh, yeah. And she died at the hands of her parents, who were pretty much using her as a circus attraction.

[Christine]

Using her to. To make money. Yeah.

[Emma]

Which, like, couldn't you just feed her and then lie to people and say, like, look, she's not eating?

[Christine]

It's like, you could, but that's not the mental illness part, I'm sure.

[Emma]

And it's still up, but it's like, at least.

[Christine]

Right. No, I know. Yeah.

[Emma]

So because of what happened to Sarah, the local government was like, we're just checking that she's not another Sarah.

[Christine]

You're not smart.

[Emma]

Slowly killing your kid from us. Funny. But Ann was feeding Ellen multiple times a day. However, feeding someone who is unconscious and won't move is hard to do. So Ann would basically give Ellen a liquid diet by pouring fluids into her mouth, probably through a funnel or it was like a. Like a dropper, like an eyedropper. And it was often these were the things that she was feeding her. Milk, tea, gruel, or port wine.

[Christine]

Whoa.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

But eventually, you know, I'm just thinking. Because, like, I have to do liquid diets before I get a colonoscopy.

[Emma]

Okay.

[Christine]

And they say, nothing red. And I'm always like. Because, you know, when they do the test, they don't. I'm like, what about. They're, you know. Yeah, what about. Well, chardonnay. And they said, it's not recommended. And I said, well, that leaves a little wiggle room, huh?

[Emma]

Yeah. So it's not a full.

[Christine]

No, it's a liquid. And it's not red.

[Emma]

Not red. If you tell me if I shouldn't drink chardonnay colored things right now. Or else I'll tell you.

[Christine]

That's right. Or else. You know, what else is that color?

[Emma]

Water. Boom.

[Christine]

It's like, not, but sort of.

[Emma]

It's. It's with a tint of. Tint of watercolor. Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

Anyway, so her mom is feeding her basically with an eyedropper liquid whenever she can. Although, also remember, she's in the fetal position on her side, like. Like, I imagine. Is she just holding her daughter?

[Christine]

I wonder if they roll her. I mean, they would have to probably move her, so. Because of bed sores and all that.

[Emma]

You know, that's what I'm thinking, But I don't think we get an answer, like information on that.

[Christine]

Well, you keep finding out that we do, so maybe we do.

[Emma]

I'll be amazed with you. So her mom keeps feeding her, but eventually, because she's not using her mouth, Ellen's jaw locks shut from. From not moving for years.

[Christine]

Right. It, like, atrophies, Right?

[Emma]

Yeah. So. And then had to feed Ellen by using. Apparently they had, like a toy, like a little kid teapot with a small enough spout support.

[Christine]

Oh, my God, that's so sad.

[Emma]

Ellen, I guess, had one of her teeth, had a chip in it and one of her front teeth. And so when her jaw locked shut, it was almost like they were grateful that she had this hole because there was a chip in her tooth, that they would use this toy teapot and pour it through the hole. Oh, my gosh.

[Christine]

This poor mother, too. Like, I know on top of having already 12 children and. And being impoverished, and now you're trying to. Oh, my gosh, this is horrifying.

[Emma]

I can't imagine handling this alone, let alone 11 other children that need me. Jesus.

[Christine]

Seriously.

[Emma]

No wonder at 11, they're going to get jobs. She's like, I can't do this well.

[Christine]

And then I remember reacting, and then I was like, wait, I just was saying that, like, in ancient Egypt, that was the same protocol. Like, you're with your mom for 10 years, and then you kind of go out, out and start working.

[Emma]

Yeah. And at least train under someone or someone else takes responsibility. Yeah. So because of this liquid diet that she was on, where hopefully Ellen is swallowing or else it's just dripping down her. I guess her weight probably can't swallow.

[Christine]

It probably is just going down.

[Emma]

Yeah. Because of this, her weight plummets. So plus, with only minimal liquid as her whole diet, her bowels essentially stop working over time. So she literally had had very little solid waste for years, which I can't imagine. Then you wake up and you have to, like, retrain yourself to use the bathroom.

[Christine]

You'd have to retrain yourself to eat. Your digestive system probably shuts down. Like, oh, yeah.

[Emma]

And Ann said that every few days, because I'm sure she was. She was interviewed about, like, how does she go to the bathroom? And if she's just lying there and you're not moving her for nine years, is that nine years of, like, pee that's just coming out of her and she's just sitting in it? But I guess a lot of her body shut down, but also every few days, apparently just a large amount of pee would essentially fall out of her Which I'm guessing her bladder just would get too full and it would just kind of fall out, which, like, I wonder if she was also experiencing like insane UTIs.

[Christine]

So sad. Yeah.

[Emma]

And UTIs can like make you septic, I think.

[Christine]

Really sick. Really sick.

[Emma]

So no wonder she's out.

[Christine]

Oh, certainly.

[Emma]

Horrible.

[Christine]

There's no antibiotics. Yeah, exactly. Like she's not getting antibiotics, obviously.

[Emma]

Throughout the years she remained unmoved the whole time. And this is how reporters described how she looked. Okay, so she looked very emaciated and weak looking with no muscle tone. All of her skin was very soft. Her pulse seemed faint, but from what they could hear or what they could feel, it was a very fast pulse. She had some color in her cheeks and lips, but not so pale that she looked dead. That's a quote. The her hair was matted because Anne was too afraid to brush it and hurt her neck. So just nine years of sad of her hair matting because that was after she made people stop taking strands of it. I guess it grew back and now it's matted. And another quote is that the eyes are calmly closed as though in heavy sleep. I venture to raise one of the lids and touch the eye beneath, but there was not even a quivering of the eyelash.

[Christine]

So she touch her eye, you weirdo. Out.

[Emma]

I think it was to see if she'd react. If she's faking it, I don't care.

[Christine]

Don't stick your dirty finger in her eye. That's literally so up.

[Emma]

So but she. And she wasn't reacting is what they discovered, I guess. Her body was warm, but her arms, legs and feet seem to have lost circulation because they were ice cold and required hot packs. So that way her arms could. Or her arms were fine, but everything else required hot packs. But her actual like middle body was still warm. And had it been cold like everything else, it would have assumed she wasn't with us.

[Christine]

Sure.

[Emma]

All of her faculties, her fingers and toes, they moved totally fine. Nothing was in rigor. And this is how life was for a long time, I guess until 1880 nine years later and 21 year old Ellen wakes up from the deepest nap of her life.

[Christine]

The up.

[Emma]

You know that feeling of like what year is it when you wake up.

[Christine]

From a nap and it's like where am I? For sure. Sure.

[Emma]

So sadly, Ellen woke up and didn't seem to know anything had happened or that any time had passed. So she's a 9 year old in a 21 year old body.

[Christine]

Oh, sweetheart. I don't know if it's better or worse? Because if she's like, I've been trapped in there for nine years, like conscious, that could be worse, I guess.

[Emma]

Sorry. 11 year old and a 21 year old body. But yeah, I, I agree. I mean I can't imagine mentally being what a sixth grader and waking up as a woman. I mean that's like.

[Christine]

Yeah. And she's incredible. Her body probably hadn't progressed through normal like puberty. Right. I mean, I imagine it's not.

[Emma]

Yeah, that's a great point. She was unable to sit up at first. She was incredibly frail, probably very scared. And of course at 11 and something scary happens and you look different all of a sudden and everyone around you looks older. She probably wanted her mom. And so when she asked her sisters for her mom, her mom had passed away five months earlier. Five months earlier. So she's had to wake up and find out that she just missed her.

[Christine]

Oh, I was so. I was already worried that she was not going to recognize her mom, but it was that her mom didn't even. Oh no.

[Emma]

So her mom never found out that she woke up either.

[Christine]

That's so sad.

[Emma]

Dr. Heyman stayed in touch with her all these years, stay in touch with her after the fact too. And even had a feeling that she, before she woke up, he had a feeling that she was going to wake up soon because he visited her three weeks before and remembers asking her to squeeze his hand apparently for like the thousandth time that he's done this in nine years. And it was the first time she. That she'd squeezed his hand.

[Christine]

So she was like coming to.

[Emma]

She was becoming sentient.

[Christine]

Yes, but slowly like three weeks before she actually woke up. Oh my God.

[Emma]

Well, I guess with 1871 medicine, like I guess it, if you're coming back at all, it's a miracle. So Ellen physically healed surprisingly well and surprisingly quickly. The only thing that really was a long term side effect was that she had bad eyesight which like, we don't even know if that's what it came from, from. But I guess also if your eyes were closed for nine years, maybe.

[Christine]

Right.

[Emma]

Can't handle light. Well.

[Christine]

And it's, I imagine parts of your body just shut down because you're not getting much energy and nutrients or your.

[Emma]

Optic nerves just don't move the right way or something, I don't know. But she also moved slower than other people. I think her muscles were just always a little stiff after that. But she was fine every other way. And a few years later, Ellen ended up marrying and having several kids. And she later passed away in her 50s, which is interesting. But I don't know if that's like, because of the time. I don't know what's the age? I don't know what the life expectancy was in 1831.

[Christine]

Well, it's confusing because I think when you say average, it usually count. Accounts for all the infant deaths and so it really skews the number. So I'm not sure entirely what the actual. But I think that's not. I think 50s is probably not unusual for like, not super unusual.

[Emma]

Okay, sure. Fair. And as for what could have caused her sleeping, doctors never figured it out while she was alive. But of course, sleeping disorders weren't even on the radar yet. Maybe she was in a coma and somehow survived without modern medicine. And the biggest thing we know is that she always complained of being drowsy, had trouble staying awake, and then had a seizure on top of having headaches. So our best guess these days, when people look back on her case, they assume she has had severe narcolepsy and maybe she also suffered from epilepsy. And combined they were just a. They one just made the other worse.

[Christine]

So they think it was like a coma, that it just sent her into a coma or not even.

[Emma]

I. I think the argument is split between either she had a coma that was brought on by a grand mal seizure, or she had epilepsy and also incredible narcolepsy. And together they just like made a. A wacky combo and just kept her asleep. I think she was in a coma. I think she's had a coma from being in.

[Christine]

Yeah. I mean, that's remarkable. Like today people can't. Don't survive comas necessarily. Right. And like no life support, no like feeding tube. I mean, no catheter. I just amazing. No antibiotics.

[Emma]

Yeah. I. It feels like she was more. I guess the people argue that it might just be severe narcolepsy because how else could she have survived.

[Christine]

Right. Right.

[Emma]

Without things like IVs and drips in modern medicine. But her symptoms feel more like a coma. It just feels harder to believe that she could survive that on her own and just wake up one day.

[Christine]

Yeah. But I mean, either one, like.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Without getting food and moving and I mean, it's shocking. She survived either way.

[Emma]

Yeah. And the other heavily suspected theory is that she was just another case of Munchausen by proxy.

[Christine]

Really.

[Emma]

Well, remember, it's thought that they were getting a lot of donation money and maybe Anne was just kind of drugging or subtly poisoning her to keep her asleep so that way they could get the donation money which the the family swore that they never asked for any money. But it's a big theory of like, well, she was always just barely alive and her mom was always by her side. What I didn't say earlier is that the amount of money that they were getting daily was like incredible compared to what everyone else was getting in the area. And Ann also refused to let anyone, including doctors, be alone with her without her.

[Christine]

Something as well, which you probably will touch on. But she did wake up after her mother passed.

[Emma]

Yep. So she refused Ellen being researched by nearby hospitals who wanted to help her.

[Christine]

And like their whole thing was oh, we only want people to come see her so to help her. And yeah, that goes against that to.

[Emma]

Say like say in the one room that she can control. She also refused treatment for Ellen when some doctors wanted to try crazy now but back then it was normal to try electroshock therapy. She said no.

[Christine]

That crazy no.

[Emma]

At this point I don't even know if I blame her or not for saying no to that. Cuz that I can't imagine a world where I'd be fine with that. But I wasn't living in that time. Another reason people think that she could have been drugged or poisoned, as you just said, is because she was asleep until an died and shortly after that she woke up.

[Christine]

Okay. Yeah. So we were going to get there. Good.

[Emma]

And some say maybe Ellen was also in on it and was. Was walking around when people.

[Christine]

I mean that's what I hope, right? Like that's what I hope. Because at least as fucked up as that is, at least it means like maybe she had a quality of life. But like, oof, like your the best.

[Emma]

Hope is that she had a great middle of the night life quality. And then her mom would say something like, oh, since you're staying up late, like let's give you some medicine so you fall asleep and then just kind of kept putting her to sleep and.

[Christine]

Like the Prince of Wales will be here in future hours.

[Emma]

Wouldn't that be crazy if that was the story that was going on and she actually had no awareness that when she was asleep she was this like attraction and she just thought her mom was giving her like basically melatonin and she'd wake up and had no idea this was going on. I mean maybe that. I don't know how I wish melatonin.

[Christine]

Worked that well that you could put a pin under my fingernail and rip my hair out and I'll wake up, but I really don't think so. Yeah.

[Emma]

You would think she would wake up every now and then and wonder, like, why her hair's missing.

[Christine]

Especially people are poking her and touching her eyeball and she's.

[Emma]

Yeah, I think she didn't know. I think. I think her mom.

[Christine]

I don't think she was either. She was.

[Emma]

I think she was either in a coma or her mom was drugging her.

[Christine]

It would feel like the most reasonable, unfortunately. Reasonable.

[Emma]

Yeah. And. And to your credit, when you kept saying, like, how would you survive a coma for that long? Like that makes me think even more.

[Christine]

Like you could nowadays, you know, you.

[Emma]

Could survive your mom poisoning you if she knew your dosage.

[Christine]

But also, people have survived crazy. So it's like maybe this really was just like a miraculous thing. I don't know. I don't want to like, put all. All because I don't know enough to say. Did they have any proof, though, about the mother or is that all just like.

[Emma]

It's just all guess because, I mean, it's so wild.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

But other reasons people think Ellen might have been in on it is because she never had bed sores, despite them saying they never moved her for nine years. And it sounds like she was always relatively clean from urine, feces, blood, again, without being moved for nine years, which maybe her body shut down beforehand. But like, imagine having like your period and not moving for nine years. Like, like there's going to be.

[Christine]

But again, I don't think she went through puberty probably at least a normal way if she was only 11.

[Emma]

That's what I'm saying. I think her body probably shut down.

[Christine]

Oh, I see how.

[Emma]

Saying, yeah, yeah, but her. But yeah, urine and feces, like, there would be signs of like, maybe not being so clean. Maybe it's because she was emaciated. But what was I going to say at the time that they. That this family was alive in the census, she should have been listed as, quote, an invalid in the house, and she wasn't. So that's another reason that maybe she was awake and walking around.

[Christine]

Was she listed as anything?

[Emma]

I think she was just listed as just a daughter. But at the time she would have been listed as like an. An invalid is the word. It may be rumors that they were hearing in town, but some swore at night they would see a girl sitting by the window.

[Christine]

And then again, how many of them are there in that house?

[Emma]

There was fucking 12 kids. So it could have been any girl.

[Christine]

I think a lot of people were.

[Emma]

Saying, she's up and out him, but People could also be saying, oh, she's dead and her ghost is walking around. So that could be twisted into a million things. Also, when feeding her fluids, she somehow didn't drown if her throat wasn't swallowing. And, like, they didn't know any, like, massage techniques to help that liquid get down.

[Christine]

You probably do drip, drip feeding.

[Emma]

I guess so. I don't know enough about it, but that was an interesting point. It's like, is she. At some point, did she ever swallow or how they figure out how to feed her?

[Christine]

Yeah, I don't think you can swallow. And I mean, I don't know. What do I. I know what the.

[Emma]

I. I also don't know. But the. The last reasoning that she might have been involved in this is because she recovered a little too quickly, like, without her body having atrophied. Despite all this, though, Dr. Heyman at least swears he believes that she was either paralyzed or unconscious the whole time. And he also believes that the family never moved her from that one position. Position. He believes they were telling the truth. When Anne died, the rest of asked about their involvement with Ellen and if their mother could have been faking, and the stepdad got weirdly shady about it. He said, Thomas. Thomas. Yeah. He. Anytime they were like, could your wife have been causing this? He pretty much always just said, I don't know nothing. I don't know nothing. I.

[Christine]

He's like, what's that over there?

[Emma]

He Pretty much his. His excuse every time was, I was always at work. I don't know.

[Christine]

Yeah, I mean, that's weird. You should at least be like, obviously not. That's really insane.

[Emma]

Yeah. You'd be like, she literally spends every week taking care of her. Like you. Even though it was in the 1870s, Ellen and her family's house still stands. It has been nicknamed as Sleepy Cottage.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. How charming.

[Emma]

How charming. And fun fact. Sleepy Cottage was Tom's house in the movie Good night, Mr. Tom.

[Christine]

What the hell is that?

[Emma]

It's a movie. And also it was using the hot things. It was also used in the BBC sitcom the Vicar of Dibley.

[Christine]

Stop acting like these are things I'm supposed to know. And don't tell me it's a TV show, because I already figured that out.

[Emma]

I will tell you, as an American who's never heard of the Vicar of Dibley, it sounds like something AI created.

[Christine]

Okay, wait, listen. There is a bit on My Brother, My Brother Me. I think they only did it like, one time where Justin Brock brought all these titles of British BBC or Like British shows. And then made his brothers guess which ones were real and which ones he made.

[Emma]

That's great.

[Christine]

And they were like. They got them, like, all wrong, I think, because it's like, how could any of this be real? The dribbly. Whatever the. Like, it's. And then he would read the description and it would be like, even more insane. And it would be like, that can't be real. Nope. It's been running for 32 years on the PC.

[Emma]

Well, my last bullet point, which apparently I wrote. I certainly. I think it's very silly. I'm. I'm so funny.

[Christine]

You are.

[Emma]

I wrote in parentheses at the very bottom. Imagine, as a follower of this story for a decade, the day you hear she woke up, the town crier would have been very busy that day.

[Christine]

You have been channeling him this whole episode, and now is your time to shine. Hear you. Hear you. No. What do you say? Extra, extra.

[Emma]

Oy, mister.

[Christine]

What next?

[Emma]

I don't know who I would be more excited to be if I got to be reincarnated in a body in that location the day that everyone found out she. Do I want to be someone who's been following her case as if it's like the closest thing to pop culture I have, finding out she woke up. Or do I want to be the town crier that gets to tell everyone.

[Christine]

Now that we want to be that and. No, we know we want. We both. We want to be that. Yes. There's no.

[Emma]

Imagine you like, I don't know what the 1870s.

[Christine]

What do you think we're doing right now? We're literally town criering stories that happened 100 some years ago.

[Emma]

The 1870s equivalent of going holy.

[Christine]

Like, I. Yeah, like Tiger Beat. Breaking news. I don't know where you would even post. Post that.

[Emma]

Who do you run to first? Do you go to the pub? The tavern. The square. Where do you go? The carriage.

[Christine]

For sure. The pub. Right. The tavern. The pub and tavern. They're going to give you the best reaction, right? I would imagine, because they're there for some socializing and some.

[Emma]

And there. Sorry, there was no PR marketing team back then. Like, I, like the town crier had to sit with himself and himself alone and be like, how am I gonna play this?

[Christine]

Like, let's strategize this.

[Emma]

Do I create an event and I tell everyone at once so I get the loudest gasps, or do I just. Every person I stumble upon, I'm just.

[Christine]

Screaming at French and do I start, like, low bar? Like, tell my dad and Mom. And they're gonna be like, I don't care. Or do I go and like, start really big and be like, like, holy, everybody gather around.

[Emma]

Or do I save it? And like. And I go, I know something you don't know.

[Christine]

For the perfect moment.

[Emma]

One day you'll. You'll be deserving of this information. I don't know. I don't know.

[Christine]

God, it says a lot of responsibility.

[Emma]

So much power.

[Christine]

I love how we both said power and responsibility in the same moment.

[Emma]

What are we, Spider Man? Anyway, this is Ellen Sadler and the Sleeping Girl of Turval, AKA the Sleeping Girls Turville.

[Christine]

Whoa. It's like one of those stories that I didn't expect to be on the verge of a true crime potentially.

[Emma]

You know, it's been on my list for a while as like a unsolved mystery. And it's like, I pretty. I'm sure you should have to solve the mystery.

[Christine]

We might not even ever solve that because it's probably like, it's one of these two things. And like, yeah, there's probably no way to know, which unfortunately.

[Emma]

But there's almost no reason to even try to figure out what happened because we all kind of know enough about what happened.

[Christine]

I do feel like, a little bit bad. Don't mind me.

[Emma]

Couldn't if I tried.

[Christine]

I do feel a little bit like I don't want to just on the mom because it's like, I don't know, you know, I don't have any proof. I don't want to be like, well, you know, what do you call circumstantial evidence? And also like, there are other people in the house, right? Like, that's a good point. Stepdad was involved or something.

[Emma]

Honestly, could have been the stepdad. I mean, he was acting shady when he got asked about it. I'm at work all the time and.

[Christine]

She'S like the second youngest, right? So, like, who knows? I'm not. I mean, I'm not blaming them either. I'm just saying, like, you know, could have been a lot of. Number of people involved or could have been fussy. Been a Guinness Book of World Records situation.

[Emma]

Could have been the doctor. He was there. I don't know. I. Maybe not, but I. It could be anyone. You're right. Like, we truly don't know. But either someone was responsible or.

[Christine]

It was or no one was.

[Emma]

No one. It was. Or God. So that's it. That's all I got for you. Wow.

[Christine]

Good job, M. What a tale.

[Emma]

What type of red is that?

[Christine]

Thank you so much. For asking. It's a Cat 19 Crimes Cab. It is.

[Emma]

I just can smell it on you.

[Christine]

It's a firm and good thing that it's a firm and full with a rich mouth feel.

[Emma]

I love a rich mouth feel.

[Christine]

Aromatics of dark berries, violets and vanilla. So I'm thinking it smells rich mouth feel.

[Emma]

I don't know. Here's a question for you. What does savory mean to you? What's the definition of savory?

[Christine]

To me, it means. I mean, I'm sure I'm probably not even correct, but to me, savory means just not. Not a sweet dish, not a. Not a dessert. Right.

[Emma]

I think. I don't know what savory means, and no matter who explains it to me, I can't figure it out.

[Christine]

Okay, savory versus sweet. Those are the two.

[Emma]

No, they're salty.

[Christine]

No, no, no. But that's savory.

[Emma]

Like, salty is savory.

[Christine]

Yeah. So I think anything that's not like a sweet treat is savory.

[Emma]

Because here's the thing. There are so many times where I say in front of Allison, like, we're eating something, and it tastes so good. I'm like, oh, so savory. She's like, this literally isn't savory.

[Christine]

It's, like, the opposite. Yeah. Okay, so of savory means of food. Parentheses. Of food belonging to the category that is salty or spicy rather than sweet. So it's like any spice or. Or saltiness that's not interesting.

[Emma]

I think in my mind, savory and hearty are the same thing.

[Christine]

Ah.

[Emma]

Or rich.

[Christine]

Because I feel like a creme brulee could be, like, a rich.

[Emma]

But it's like, you want to savor it.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

You know what I mean?

[Christine]

I know it's kind of a misleading term, but.

[Emma]

So, like, I think, like, I had, like, chicken pot pie in front of Alison. I was like, oh, so savory. And she's like, that's. It's not.

[Christine]

No, that is. That is savory.

[Emma]

Is it?

[Christine]

Well, if you have Allison, if you had a key lime pie that's not savory.

[Emma]

No, I wouldn't call that savory.

[Christine]

No. It's basically just a proverb.

[Emma]

Proverbs.

[Christine]

It's basically a flavor profile. That's not dessert. Dessert.

[Emma]

The second Allison hears this, I'm gonna. I'm gonna hear it.

[Christine]

What does she think it means?

[Emma]

I don't know. I don't know. That's why I can't figure it out. Every time she says it, I'M then confused about. I don't even know what she's saying. So I can redefine it from my own head, but every time I.

[Christine]

A culinary overlap with umami.

[Emma]

So if that's what she says, she says umami. And I don't know what that is either.

[Christine]

That one is a little beyond my comprehension.

[Emma]

Okay, well, I've been savory. It is idiot.

[Christine]

Okay, well, it says it overlaps idiot, so don't even start.

[Emma]

Truly, in my mind, I think. I just think savory just means like a chicken pot pie and kind of nothing else. But.

[Christine]

No, I mean, it does a savory. Oh, but you're saying, like, instead of like a rich thing, like a. Like, you're saying like a hearty thing.

[Emma]

Yeah, I think it's like hearty carbs, like fall autumnal meals. You're not filling your tummy.

[Christine]

It's not the only thing that it means. But it is in the category I'll never understand.

[Emma]

It's kind of similar to wanton or wanton or whatever it is. I still don't totally. I don't really want to know at this point what the difference is. I just know that I'm wrong and I'm okay with that.

[Christine]

You don't want to know.

[Emma]

Want to know. Yeah, that's right.

[Christine]

Wow. Okay, well, good thing I don't want to tell you. So now it's time for my story, which, although I did do the notes like we said a couple weeks ago, I did take it upon myself to prepare. So don't worry, everyone.

[Emma]

I'm not just at least one of us.

[Christine]

At least one of us. And thankfully, the true crime half. So.

[Emma]

Yeah, good point. You know that really annoying trait that a lot of partners do, which I'm also guilty of, where someone's trying to cook in the kitchen and the other one wants to talk to you, but they are just in your way. They're standing in front of every drawer you need. I have, unfortunately, become that person when Allison is cooking Hungryroot, because I just have to watch. I just want to see all that. All. All what's going on. Earlier this week, I had their chicken and bell pepper Alfredo. Hungryroot takes the stress out of grocery shopping by filling your cart with personalized selections that get smarter with every order, from smoothies and kids snacks. I call those M snacks. To sweets, salad kits, supplements, and more. There's something for every taste and nutrition goal. If you just want to eat some good food, you can do that. If you want something that's Gut friendly if you want something that's high protein 14 if you have kids. And Hungry Root also holds all of its food, a high standard screening out over 200 additives like high fructose corn syrup, preservatives and artificial sweeteners. If you would like to be the annoying partner who keeps looking over the shoulder of the one cooking in the kitchen because the food looks so, so good and you're just hoping for a bite, you should take advantage of this exclusive offer for a limited time get 40 off your first box plus get a free item in every box for life. Go to hungryroot.com drink and use code drink that's hungryroot.com drink code drink to get 40 off your first box and a free item of your Choice for Life. Hungryroot.com Drink Code Drink now that autumn is upon us, folks, you might be going on a cute little harvest festival date soon like Christine and I did when we first met. Maybe you just want to feel cozy and look slamming in your own home. All of that is possible with quints. We have talked about how much we love quince. I've. I've told you. Christine's told you. I recently just bought a cashmere. I know a cashmere Henley. I love a Henley. I've never really owned any cashmere because you look at me and you think cashmere is not what I would expect from you. But at these prices, cashmere is kind of my vibe. Think 100 Mongolian cashmere for $50 and washable silk tops and skirts and perfectly tailored denim. All the prices that feel too good to be true. It's kind of the wardrobe upgrade that feels smart and stylish. It's effortless. You're gonna look great. They sell, sell a knit blazer that looks really sharp. A trench coat which I've only ever known people to buy those to like sell like a hundred watches at one time. But you know what? You might as well go to Quint's. Get yourself a nice looking trench coat. People are gonna want your watches. You know what I'm saying? Keep it classic and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quints. Go to quince.com drink for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N C E.com drink to get free shipping and 365 day return returns. Quince.com drink I want to start off.

[Christine]

With a correction I wrote for myself at the top of the notes several weeks ago, which now has probably just Made everyone angry. And I haven't corrected it, but I'm gonna do it now. It was a. I'm embarrassed about this. It was the podcast that I mentioned. It's called stuff you should know Sysk. And a lot of people were like, christine, it's not things you should know or whatever the. I said, it's stuff you should know. And I talked about their podcast and how good what it was. Like, please, please know that I meant stuff you should know Sysk.

[Emma]

I don't think that's something we had a lot of embarrassed about.

[Christine]

Well, I was just embarrassed because I gave them so much credit. And then I talked about a different show or like the wrong podcast. And I mean, I don't know if the other show even exists. I don't know what I said, but people were like, oh, like just pointing out it's because we have a lot of overlap, like umami and whatever the fuck word.

[Emma]

We're the savory ones, I'll tell you that.

[Christine]

Oh, well, that's. There's no doubt. And Allison, don't even start.

[Emma]

Don't, please, Allison. I'm not in the mood. I'm not in the mood. I'm not now or when you hear this, don't even mess with me.

[Christine]

Not today. So I was embarrassed about that because I. Not embarrassed, but I was like, I should probably correct that. And now we're going to tell a story. This is a story. It's a sad one, of course. It's a story of Blaze Nathan Bernstein. Okay, yes. Same name as my husband, same first name. We'll get to that. Just after the New Year in 2018, 19 year old Blaze Bernstein was gearing up for the second half of his sophomore year of college. He was home for winter break, soaking up the last days with his family and friends in California. He lived in Orange county before it was time to fly back to Pennsylvania. He was super close with his family. He was the eldest of three children. He got along with his younger brother and sister. Their names were Jay and Bowie. Bowie, which I think is so cute. Blaze, Jay and Bowie, I feel like, are very fun. Like sibling names.

[Emma]

They feel like they're in a band.

[Christine]

I know, I know, they should be. And Blaze is with a Z, if anyone's wondering. But again, I love that. We'll get to that. So the siblings grew up together in Lake Forest, which is an affluent town in Orange County. It's about an hour south of la. Their parents, Gene and Gideon, were originally from la, but they moved south as many people do to kind of a quieter, you know, well to do area, because it's known for being safe and good for families and so on. So their family, despite kind of moving to this sort of what you might call like a sheltered, well to do area, they were not unfamiliar with the harsh reality of the world. Because his Romanian born grandmother, whom he was also really close. Close with, Leah Bernstein, is actually to this day a living survivor of the Holocaust. Holocaust. And that was a really important relationship to him growing up. There was a video somewhere of him doing a presentation on the Holocaust at like age 10 or something. Like he was. This was just a very important part of his life and what he wanted to share with the world. So it was crucial to Gene and Gideon, his parents and their entire extended family that the children would grow up in a place where they could be themselves and be confident in who they were. And Blaze himself, as the eldest, he was named for his grandfathers, Nathan and Haim. But he was Also named after 17th century French mathematician, physicist, and religious philosopher Blaise Pascal.

[Emma]

Oh, wow.

[Christine]

And that is what I said the moment I met Blaze. He said, I'm blazed. And I said. I said, like Blaise Pascal? And he's just like, nobody ever says that. And then I imagine I did. And I imagine that's when he fell in love with me. But I think it's probably. Probably not, because I think it was probably a weird thing to say. I was holding a Bud Light platinum, and I said. I said, oh, like Blaze Haskell. And it gets worse because then he was like, kind of trying to, like, I guess, show off. And he said that his aunt one time had met Donald Trump. First of all, I said, who's Donald Trump? So that felt really good.

[Emma]

And I hope. I hope you say that forever, too.

[Christine]

I wish I could. And honestly, I wish to go back to that day. Day. To that day when I didn't know. And he's like, you know, Celebrity Apprentice? And I was like, I don't watch. Like that. Turns out Lisa Lampinelli, wonderful Lisa Lamp. Was on the show. I really just kind of said everything but probably what I was supposed to say, but it worked. And every time I introduced him to my family, they're like, oh, Blaze Pascal. And I'm like, please stop. But for Blaze, it was also a family name, so I don't know. But they. I love that they took that. And then they were like, but we'll do a Z. A Z. Just make it a little more exciting.

[Emma]

Sure. I mean, I. When I met Blaze, I don't know if I said it, but my first thought was, oh, like fire.

[Christine]

Everybody thinks it is. Yeah. Which makes sense. I mean, that's a name too, obviously, but I kind of love it. I was like at first, like I would get annoyed when people would think there was a Z in it. Now I'm like, no, that's kind of kick ass.

[Emma]

No, I'm. I'm such a. The only reason I like my last name is because there's a Z in there.

[Christine]

A Z is so you don't see Z's enough.

[Emma]

That's a rare. It's like a rare Pokemon card, so.

[Christine]

You're so right. I'm so glad you even said that. It didn't even occur to me that that's so special. You in your name.

[Emma]

Thank you.

[Christine]

It is.

[Emma]

Hang on, hang on. Let me just do a little spin.

[Christine]

Thank you.

[Emma]

That I needed that.

[Christine]

I really did look like, almost like a spotlight came down. I mean, it's probably my imagination, but you really just twirled.

[Emma]

Yeah. So sorry. Blaze.

[Christine]

So Blaze is named after Blaze Pascal, which drunk 22 year old me was like, oh my God, like the mathematician. And Blaze was like, I don't know, maybe. Yes. Okay. So Blaze's family knew this kid was special. His mom said when he was born, she looked at him and was like, this is just a special human. He was indeed very special. He was described by many of his classmates as a renaissance man. He was pretty much good at everything. He loved math, science, religion, philosophy, music, literature, food. He was doing public speaking. He was trying to spread word about. About anti Semitism. He was endly, endlessly curious about the world and he flew under the radar. But a lot of people who knew him well described him as practically a genius, but also like a really loving person, which I feel like is a hard kind of thing to find.

[Emma]

Smart and loving. I feel like you're either too smart, that you're a little too sheltered socially.

[Christine]

Or you're so social, hard to find that balance.

[Emma]

I'll tell you, I'm way too social about. I couldn't tell you a thing about knowledge.

[Christine]

Exactly. I can say Blaze Pascal, that's about where it ends. But yes. So he was very friendly, very outgoing, and he had a very sharp sense of humor. But he also was pretty introverted and never, you know, went out of his way to seek attention. He was not quite out for glory, but he did struggle to make friends. He was kind and goofy, but he was blessed. Bullied every single day at school and just never felt like he could quite fit in. He wanted to get out of the public school system. So he auditioned for osha. And I'm thinking osha, like osha, yeah.

[Emma]

Okay. I thought the same thing.

[Christine]

I was wrong. You're wrong. We're all wrong. It's called the Orange County School of the Arts and it's an elite school. Did you have an arts school? Because we had one called. And this is like funny because I feel like it's similar one where it was called. It's called the sp. Sorry. SCPA Society for Creative and Performing Arts. But then there's like the spca and so we'd always. I'd always mix them up in my head. Anyway.

[Emma]

We never had an art school, but we had a. We had two private schools. I went to one of those and on our building it said fine math and arts. But then.

[Christine]

Fine.

[Emma]

I know, but then the seniors one year replaced the F from fine and moved over to art. So it said math and flower arts.

[Christine]

I thought, please, that's so good.

[Emma]

No, extremely good. In our. In our school, if you were part of. What's it called? Like. Like the main organization where you try to make like community events and things like that. It was called SOFA because it was the student organization of FA where I went to school.

[Christine]

Oh, SOFA got it.

[Emma]

And so if you were like the president of sofa. I don't know.

[Christine]

What if you're the king? What if you're the. So fucking.

[Emma]

I'm telling. Trust you don't think 17 year olds.

[Christine]

I know. I'm trying to fit in.

[Emma]

I know. But. Oh, you're. You're right on track though. Anyway, so we didn't have a. An art school but a lot of our acronyms because we. Our school was fa. Like we were on the tennis team. We. This is like. They were called like this is up now but in high school called the FAT team.

[Christine]

I know. There's so many fart fat. I mean like FA already lends itself to a lot of.

[Emma]

So of course all the mean girls were on the basketball team and of course they were called fab. And I was like, shut up.

[Christine]

That's so annoying.

[Emma]

They're just sitting there on the fat girls team.

[Christine]

That's so annoying. I know.

[Emma]

Anyway, so FA got a lot of play whether or not you liked it. But. But it was just. It was just easy. And we were 17 and it was easy.

[Christine]

It writes itself.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

School newspaper called. Did it have a fun name?

[Emma]

No, our mascot was the Falcon and so it was called the. The Falcon Flyer.

[Christine]

Oh, that's Pretty cool.

[Emma]

Falcons fly.

[Christine]

Our arts. Thanks. Our. Unlike penguins. Fun fact. Not everyone knows our. Our school had an arts magazine that I was not invited to join even when I applied. And it was called A little Ellipsis.

[Emma]

That feels like something I would have been.

[Christine]

I got bullied out of that. Like, that's people. Teenagers are so mean sometimes. Senior year, they let me write an article, and then they changed, like, the spelling of some of the things in there, and it was wrong. And then everyone was like, you spelled all these things wrong. And I was like, the editor of the newspaper did that.

[Emma]

You know, our. What was your yearbook called? Called My newspaper. What was your yearbook called? Okay.

[Christine]

We are. My year didn't even have an yearbook.

[Emma]

What?

[Christine]

We didn't have one. And then like a year later, someone was like, well, just because everyone hated our class and our class hated ourselves, we were like this weird black sheep class that, like, when we graduated, all the teachers said, thank God.

[Emma]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

I know. And it's like, looking back, I'm like, my brother has all these fond memories. And I'm like, we were not well liked at that school, our whole class. I don't know what it was. We didn't even get a yearbook. We did eventually, but it was all misspelled. It had a bunch of photos, like, on pages. They didn't give a shit.

[Emma]

Well, I was gonna say I was on the yearbook team.

[Christine]

They call it the rostrum, though. I don't know.

[Emma]

The rostrum sounds like. Sounds like colostrum.

[Christine]

They needed to sound hoity toity, so they call it the Summit Rostrum.

[Emma]

You could just call it the roster. What Assholes.

[Christine]

Roster is like a roster of students, I think.

[Emma]

Wait, is that what a yearbook is?

[Christine]

I don't know, Em. I didn't get a yearbook. Didn't I tell you that already?

[Emma]

Okay, sorry. Mine was called the Tal. And I work we.

[Christine]

Oh, that's good.

[Emma]

Falcons. And we had. I. I kind of. Well, I joined the yearbook as, like, an elective, but also because I'd gone to school, like, my whole fucking life, my last name was constantly misspelled in the yearbook. And I was like, yes, I'm gonna make sure that doesn't. And then even when I was on the yearbook team, so many pages of me, my name.

[Christine]

That makes me feel so much better because after the whole thing of changing my spellings in my thing, and I was like, even I write my own article and they spell my name wrong and spell it, like, fucking off. Like, what is that?

[Emma]

I. It's you know, your I and E and a C or an H or both. Someone said, super badass. Someone called, mispronounced my last name. Reading it this week and it was Skulls. Hell yeah, brother.

[Christine]

You know, we never even come up.

[Emma]

With that M. Skulls. And I went, that's absolutely me.

[Christine]

How is not a single listener? Probably somebody has. But how is that a single listener been like, hey, if you pronounce your. Your name differently, I might as well.

[Emma]

As long as I get to keep the Z, we're all good. Cool, chief. Or I can't help you.

[Christine]

Nah. But trust me, I've tried. It's a lost cause.

[Emma]

Okay.

[Christine]

Wow. Okay. So he applies or auditions, I guess, or, or tries to get into this really preppy, not preppy, but like really performance arts.

[Emma]

Like to do acting or like music or like what's his, what's his thing?

[Christine]

Well, you will see. So he. So it's called the Orange County School of the Arts. It describes itself as providing students in grades seven through 12, rigorous college preparatory academic program and pre professional arts training. And probably math and farts too, but.

[Emma]

I don't know about that.

[Christine]

Admission to OSHA is competitive. The school boasts famous alumni like actors Pedro Pascal, Justice Smith and Dante Basco. Blaze had loved creative pursuits since he was little. He was always in the school plays, he was always putting on puppet shows. And so he wanted to pursue performing arts and creative writing at osha. And he made it in and he finally felt like he had found his place. He thrived there. He made friends. He finally felt like, oh, this is the kind of high school experience that I've wanted. He was a very good writer. He took advanced science classes. He competed in chemistry tournaments. And then on the weekend, nerd. He worked on the. At the synagogue on the weekends. And then when he had time off, he went to national parks to enjoy nature. Teacher.

[Emma]

What a good boy.

[Christine]

I know. He wanted to do it all and he was doing it all. He had a lot of people who, who admired him. And his teachers even said like, he wouldn't even accept that. Like he would have been surprised by that because he just wasn't the type to be like, looking for accolades. So when he received an acceptance to an Ivy League school, nobody was surprised. And he entered the University of Pennsylvania as a pre med student in the college class. This is crazy. The class of 2020. His studies focused on math and science, but he held on to his love for writing. And he would actually. This actually goes exactly into our conversation. He was a contributor to PEN Appetit. Which was their university food magazine. The student run food magazine.

[Emma]

Are you kidding me? I'm the first. Sign me up on that description list.

[Christine]

I was gonna say to get the magazine. Sign me up to write op ed beds. You know, sign me up for all.

[Emma]

They call the blurbs or d'. Oeuvres.

[Christine]

They better have.

[Emma]

You and I could really get into this.

[Christine]

We could really shake some things up at this place.

[Emma]

Maybe for our yappy hour, we just talk about what we would have in a food magazine.

[Christine]

Let's make our own magazine. I mean, we do have the. The Xenon Gazette. Yeah, we'll make the Xenon Gazette, but, like, the foodie version.

[Emma]

Yeah. We could come up with things that Xenon would eat if she had a food magazine.

[Christine]

Frappuccinos.

[Emma]

We could really. It. It could spiral quickly.

[Christine]

We could do. Yeah, it'll be good. It'll be good. So Blaze became a dedicated lover of all things food and food writing. There are photos of him, like, posing with, like, a chef hat and, like, a thing for the magazine. It's. It's really cute. He. He found this kind of, like, side niche hobby that he didn't realize he would love so much. And so when he would go home, I mean, this is my journey dream. I'm holding out hope for Leona. He would show off all the new, like, recipes and culinary skills he had learned while he was away, and his parents would just sit there and be like, oh, my God, like, our son is just serving us gourmet meals. Blaze's grandfather, Richard, said with admiration, I wish I could write like he wrote. I wish I could cook like he cooked. He was just a very talented kid.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

On Wednesday, January 3, 2018, the Bernsteins woke up to a usual day at home in California. California. Blaze would soon be returning to school after winter break. And the night before, Blaze's grandfather had actually brought up his name. And Blaze didn't know until this point that he was named after Blaise Pascal. I guess he hadn't met me to scream in his face yet. I would have told him that was the.

[Emma]

You know, you listed all these accolades about him. And the only problem, he doesn't know me.

[Christine]

Yep. You know what? I feel I have one up finally, and so that's powerful for me. So he was really kind of delighted about that. He didn't know. And so his parents said, you know, we're just really proud of you, and you're kind of, like, proving your own namesake, which is just really cool. And. And he Himself, couldn't wait to get back to school, had a lot to look forward to in the morning, which was Wednesday, Gene decided to let him sleep until his dentist appointment while she went to yoga. But throughout the morning, she's reaching out to him by text, saying, like, hey, hey, you ready for this appointment? Are we going to meet there? And she thought, like, okay, maybe he'll just meet me when. When I arrive. But she got there, and Blaze never showed. And that's when her heart start to sink, because she called her husband, Gideon, and they both realized this is not right, because it's not like him to ignore his phone. It's not like him to miss an appointment. And they both got immediately worried, thinking, like, well, where could he have gone? Or what could be wrong? And Gideon then and ask Jean, do we know for a fact that Blaze stayed in the house last night? Like, what if he left? And that is when her stomach really dropped, because she hadn't even considered that, like, maybe he left last night. She hadn't checked in on him. She had left the door closed and said, he can sleep in. So that fact added a whole nother level of panic. Like, oh, God, has he gone so many hours? Yes, exactly. Like, a whole night longer than they thought. So she's terrified. She's like, I don't even know where he could be. So Gideon rushes home from work, finds Blaze's room empty. But Blaze's glasses, wallet, and keys were there, along with his luggage, which was packed and ready for school.

[Emma]

Not good.

[Christine]

Not good. His siblings had not heard from him. His friends had not heard from him. Gideon tried to use Find My Find My Friends on the app to see where Blaze might be, but his location was turned. Turned off. And that was also very unusual. The family cell phone carrier confirmed that no recent calls had been made from Blaze's phone. And it was like he had just vanished and turned his phone off. Out of the blue. That day, when it got dark and Blaze still wasn't home, his parents called the local sheriff. And at first, they were dismissive, right? Like, he's an adult teenager. He's home on school break. You know, he's probably out partying or with friends. But when the Burns scenes insisted that something was not right, the sheriff finally agreed to file a missing persons report. Bowie, meanwhile, texted all of Blaze's friends that she could think of. They were really close, he and his sister, so she kind of knew his circle. And everyone said, well, I heard from him yesterday, but nobody had heard from him since that night. Horrifying Horrifying. The Bernsteins logged into Blaze's computer, but there was no useful information. And then boom. Zoe, great sister move. Thought, why don't we check his Snapchat?

[Emma]

That's right.

[Christine]

That's a sister for you.

[Emma]

Yeah, I know all of his passwords. I'll find it.

[Christine]

Yep.

[Emma]

30 seconds or less.

[Christine]

Yep. Don't need face ID. I've got this. So they log into his Snapchat and he's often communicating with friends on there. And they didn't have his phone, Right. But they had his password saved in the icloud keychain. So they're able to log in from someone else's phone. And they knew that this was a little, like, risky because it's Snapchat and there are snaps there and they're like. Well, if I click them right, they usually self delete some last. I mean, I haven't used Snapchat since literally, probably the time I was dating Blaze, like 10, 12 years ago or whatever.

[Emma]

Yeah. You know, I haven't touched Snapchat in years. And I have one friend who still sends me snaps all the time. I. And I'm like, girl, let it go, dude.

[Christine]

No, but the young people use it now. Like, my sister's on it. Oh, my sister has been on that app for years. Every single day. Like, she has. Like, she and her friends have, like, hundreds, if not. No, I thought so too. And it was just that they hid it from us. They were like, you're too old now.

[Emma]

I see. Okay.

[Christine]

And they took it over and now the youngins use it. And I know this only because my sister's like. And her friends are always on it. And clearly from this case, in this case, you know, it's 2018, he's still using Snapchat or Snapchat with his friends. So they log in and they're able to see that there are these unread messages. But also, you know, if you take a screenshot, right. Like the other person's notified, and if you view it, then they know you viewed it and it might disappear. So even if there were clues here, it's like a. It's like a. Feels like a live wire thing. Like, you really have to be so careful because you can, like, miss something, you know?

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So luckily, one major clue had not been deleted yet. Blaze had sent his home address to someone at 10:00pm the night before.

[Emma]

Well, that's immediately prime suspect number one to me.

[Christine]

Correct. Bowie was surprised to not recognize the name at all. The name was Sam Woodward. And she said I love the sister. I love this family. She said, dad, you call him. I'll record the conversation.

[Emma]

Battle Girl.

[Christine]

Yes. Yes. Thank you. And so that's what they did. Gideon called. Sam picked up. First of all, he didn't pick up. And then they messaged him. Him, like, please answer the phone. And he did. Which I'm like, couldn't be me. If someone told me if I don't answer the phone, and then they say, please answer it, I go, actually, I'll less answer it.

[Emma]

Like, send me a picture of the body you need me to identify, because there's no other reason you need to call me for that intense of a thing. And I'm also not gonna answer.

[Christine]

I'm not gonna answer ever, especially if you want me to. Sorry, it's just I have a contrary personality. I can't do it. So. So he finally picks up, thankfully, and he says, oh, yeah, this is Sam. Yeah, I did hang out with Blaze last night. It turns out that Blaze and Sam were former high school classmates at osha, but the reason that his family didn't know about Sam is because he was a couple years older and he had actually left the art school and graduated from a different school in 2016. So they said, well, tell us about when you last saw him. Sam says he picked Blaze up. He sent him his dress. He picked Blaze up the night prior, and they drove to Borrego park to meet another one of Blaze's friends. Friends. And they said, okay, which friend? He said, I don't know. I don't know his name. I don't know. The guy.

[Emma]

You hung out with him last night, apparently. Okay.

[Christine]

Yep. So they arrive at the park, and Blaze gets out of the car. But apparently Sam has a weird feeling about the situation. So he hung back while Blaze approached another man, and the pair walked away. After a while, Sam says he did get out of the car to find Blaze, but now it was dark. He didn't see anyone. He said he called out Blaze's name. No one answered. Answered. And Sam said he was scared. Or maybe he thought, like, that that Blaze was pulling a prank, or maybe he had just ditched him. And when he was sure Blaze wasn't coming back, Sam was like. So I just drove home and assumed he would call me in the morning, but he didn't.

[Emma]

So he just truly just.

[Christine]

Just ditched him and said, I'm sure he'll get back to me eventually. Okay, interesting. So Sam encouraged Gideon, the dad, to call back if he had any more questions. Questions. That's so Nice.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

He said, you know, and you can hear the call. And that's why I'm like, thank God for this sister. Thank God for this family. Because in the documentary I watched, and I think it was a 48 Hours documentary, whatever you call it, episode, and the family's being interviewed and stuff, and they play this footage of the dad on the phone, and you can hear this guy Sam going, you know, I'm really worried about him. It's like, are you? Are you?

[Emma]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

So, yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[Emma]

No matter.

[Christine]

I don't.

[Emma]

I mean, I. I don't remember what I was like in my 20s necessarily, or how I would react to this, but I think I'd at least be. I'd be like, holy, he's not home. I don't know. Like, how can I help? Versus, like, yeah, I'm so worried. Anyway.

[Christine]

And be like, oh, call me back if you have any more questions. Like, yeah, I do have questions. Where the. Is my son? Like, what. What do you mean? Call me.

[Emma]

Why did you abandon him in the world, the woods, with a shady, random person? You don't know?

[Christine]

Correct. And who are you? Like, what the.

[Emma]

And how. Yeah, how does he know you.

[Christine]

This is so shady. And so. Right. So they have this conversation. They. Thankfully, they film the call. Everything like that. And he said, oh, call me back. I really want to know what happened.

[Emma]

You know what happened, buddy.

[Christine]

Yeah. The Bernsteins contacted the sheriff, who searched the park for anything out of the ordinary. They didn't find anything. So detectives brought Sam into the sheriff's office to follow up, and he told them to same story that he had told Gideon. Now the officers are getting concerned because the neighborhood beside Borrego park backed up to a pretty expansive wilderness area. And when I'm saying expansive, I mean, speaking of, like, areas like la, where you think, oh, you're in a city, there are thousands of acres of trails, hills, canyons. You know, like, the second you get out of these places, especially in California, like, you're in wilderness, once you kind of go out of your bubble.

[Emma]

There's more than one map house.

[Christine]

There's one. No. Are you sure?

[Emma]

I don't know. My. My backyard's pretty scary.

[Christine]

Oh, my God.

[Emma]

Stuart Large.

[Christine]

Stuart Large. Okay. So the officers became more concerned because of this, like, fact of all these trails and wilderness. And if he had gone there at night, even just with innocent reasons, he could be in trouble. He could have gotten hurt. He could be. Someone else could have harmed him. He could be lost. Who knows? So some people thought maybe he's lost and suffering from exposure. Of course there could be a wild animal. I mean, we were just talking about this, mountain lions. Some people suggested maybe he died by suicide, but his family was like, no. We literally packed his bags this like last night. Like he's not. That wasn't sure. No, he was an extremely happy person. He was so excited about his future. He really felt like he, he actually spent the whole winter break, like talking about all his goals and plans. And.

[Emma]

He'S like, not that this isn't, this isn't a sign of anything, but I mean, he sounded super active, like he had a bunch of responsibilities.

[Christine]

Exactly. And I think a lot of times, and that's part of it because the family said we didn't notice any psychological changes in him. We didn't notice retreating, we didn't notice him like being gloomy or depressed, you know, nothing like that. So of course, if he is trapped somewhere or lost, time is of the essence. So they launched these enormous searches where authorities and volunteers scour the area for Blaze. They use dogs, helicopters, drones, people on foot. Blaze's synagogue congregation put up thousands of flyers. And the Bernsteins, having come from LA and having worked in la, they had some celebrity contacts. And I just love how like savvy these people are because they're like, who can we get the word? How do we get the word out? So they get Kobe Bryant, Charlie Puth, Kareem Abdul Jabar to post about Blaze's case.

[Emma]

Oh my God.

[Christine]

Yeah, this is, they're trying to get the word out. It seemed impossible he wouldn't be found with the extensive searching. But as days went by with no news, his family started to lose hope and his mom, Gene, feared they might never find him and worse, not ever know what happened to him. This is where Blaze's best friend from childhood, Raya Rosky, comes in. When her mom called her to tell her Blaze was missing and that he was last seen with someone named Sam W. Woodward. Raya gasped. Her mom said, do you know Sam Woodward? And she said, yes, he's crazy. That's a quote.

[Emma]

Oh.

[Christine]

And she was beside herself. Like, why the is he with Sam Woodward?

[Emma]

And yeah, why would he pick that if he, if his own thing thinks.

[Christine]

That, if his best friend thinks like, what on earth was he doing? That's how you know. Yeah. And so according to Raya, when Sam still went to OSHA before he left, he was withdrawn, he was serious, he was like not a light hearted person at all. He didn't have a, a core friend group and not only that, he had a reputation as being sexist, homophobic, racist. Just like a shithead.

[Emma]

Yeah, okay.

[Christine]

A bad dude.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And Raya literally said she could not think of anyone more unlike Blaze.

[Emma]

Huh?

[Christine]

Like, let alone someone to hang out with one on one.

[Emma]

Was he like doing like charity work? I don't know, like a pity.

[Christine]

A pity hangout?

[Emma]

I mean, like, was there something that like they had. They re met in like a different. Like in one of his clubs or something and like maybe he was giving him another chance or. I don't know.

[Christine]

You're on the right path here. I think Ryan Rya was able to crack the case wide open because Raya knew something crucial about Blaze that not everyone else did.

[Emma]

Uh.

[Christine]

Oh, Blaze was gay? You don't seem shocked.

[Emma]

Well, I did the little. As soon as you said she knew something he didn't, I went, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

[Christine]

You knew it. Okay, hold on.

[Emma]

Sorry you missed my little, my little wrist moments.

[Christine]

Oh, I didn't see it. Wait, do it again. Hold on.

[Emma]

On.

[Christine]

Oh, cuz the screen. I can't only see part of you. And I was like, I. I didn't know what you were doing. Yeah, precisely.

[Emma]

Hey girl. Where did she go? Oh, she's getting glass.

[Christine]

This story makes me just really upset.

[Emma]

So was he. Was Sam Woodward. Sam Woodward? Oh no.

[Christine]

Do you see what's happening happening here? Why I got the wine.

[Emma]

So Sam Woodward is a homophobe and tricked him, started flirting with him or something and tricked him onto like let's go on a date.

[Christine]

Ding.

[Emma]

Is that so that he could then assault.

[Christine]

Ding. Ding.

[Emma]

And kill a gay man?

[Christine]

Because I wish I could say like, oh, thank God. No, that's literally. It's a hate crime. It's.

[Emma]

Yeah, it was. What's. I don't know what the right word. There's a phrase for it maybe you'll get to. But there's, there's a phrase for it when like there are bigots with the plan to trick people on dating sites to then I mean, it's the same thing that like horrible men would do to trap a woman. You know, it's like, oh, come on this date with me. And then all of a sudden like they're in a bad position, you know, Violence.

[Christine]

Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's. It's hate fueled. It's.

[Emma]

Yeah, not victim blaming at all. But why did he think, oh, Sam Woodward's the guy for me?

[Christine]

If we guess what, you'll find out. And it's actually More disturbing because it feels like something any one of us might fall for. Yeah, not even fall for, but just, like, agree to. Oh, like, I don't. I know, I know. Okay. It's. This is like.

[Emma]

I know. I'll wait. You tell the story. I think I. I know.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Emma]

I don't want to, like, keep ruining.

[Christine]

Why don't you say it? And if it's. If it's not that, we can.

[Emma]

I. I think that he said, I think I'm gay and I really need some help talking. Talking about it to somebody. Can you come help me?

[Christine]

Not quite. Sort of. A little bit. A little bit. Like he said. He. He did say something like, I'll make an exception for you. We'll get to it. But. But it's. It's almost. Even more. More. It's almost more innocent than that. Like it's something. Okay, we'll get to it.

[Emma]

Okay. Okay.

[Christine]

You'll understand when you hear it because it's just.

[Emma]

I've never seen you break out two glasses for the same bottle of wine, so it's got to be better. Well, didn't you already pour wine earlier.

[Christine]

And now, you know, I just opened the bottle and then I realized I don't have a wine glass, so I've just been staring at an open bottle for a while and.

[Emma]

Why haven't you just been drinking it by the bottle? I'm not good judge you. It's not like everybody else.

[Christine]

Terrible story. I don't want to be, you know, making light of it. I figured I might as well, you know, be have a little bit of decorum for once in my life.

[Emma]

I guess one of us, maybe.

[Christine]

I know. Earlier I spelled range on this shirt and I just remembered I never changed it. Speaking.

[Emma]

It looks great. Hang on a second. Joey Construction is calling me.

[Christine]

Please stand by. We have to step away. And.

[Emma]

I really like Joey Construction.

[Christine]

I do too.

[Emma]

He's a really good guy.

[Christine]

Like, Joey Construction is hysterical. It sounds like Bob the Builder's like, like off brand cousin.

[Emma]

He.

[Christine]

I am Joey Construction. Is this a hammer or a wrench?

[Emma]

I have no idea what his company or his last name is, but irrelevant. His. His wife, I guess, is big on doing Joanne Construction. Joanne Construction.

[Christine]

Construction.

[Emma]

But so when I told him, like, I all done by the time my girlfriend comes home, he was like, okay, well, tell me what things to email you to. And like, things that she doesn't have access to and it will only work from there. And, oh, make sure you take pictures of this because she'll want the before and After. And I was like, Joey Construction. I was.

[Christine]

Hell yeah. It's not his first rodeo, man.

[Emma]

I don't like the prices that he's giving me. But Joey Construction also said I can do all of it in under a week. So Joey Construction gets whatever he wants.

[Christine]

Just Joe, give Joey what he wants.

[Emma]

I think he's trying to make me a. A long term client, which I know he probably does with everybody, but I have. We have a rapport that I think he's trying to hold on to. Hey, that's important. Yeah.

[Christine]

And sometimes I feel like I could. Sometimes I feel like you don't have that rapport even when the person's perfectly nice. So I feel like that's a good thing to.

[Emma]

I don't know if I'm being swindled by the salesman of him, though. Like, he. We were on the phone earlier and I. I'm having. Well, hang on. I almost said I'm having money problems. That's not true. I'm having Credit card. I was like, we are. I'm having an issue with my credit card. I. I never got it activated in time and so I have to now go to a physical bank and activate. So I was. So he's just like on good faith doing this work and I haven't even paid him like an initial fee.

[Christine]

That's a good sign.

[Emma]

And he even said he was like, no, I really trust you. You're like, you're like one of my best clients. And I was. He was like, you're. And I was like, I feel like you say that to everybody. Joey Construction, but okay, I'll take it.

[Christine]

But also, that probably means you're giving him all sorts of good, good work.

[Emma]

You know, I certainly am. I was like, what do you think about this? What do you think about this? And I did tell him. I was like, I want it to be like Witchy Cottage. He's like, I know exactly what that means. Don't worry.

[Christine]

What I need to find me. I need to find me a Joey Construction over here.

[Emma]

Anytime you need construction in la, I've got one for you. So.

[Christine]

All right.

[Emma]

Well, anyway, sorry to interrupt, but I was worried that, like, the house fell down, so.

[Christine]

Sure. And it didn't. The.

[Emma]

A wall that did. Yeah.

[Christine]

What?

[Emma]

Well, he's putting in an arch, so he had to knock out the old one to reframe it.

[Christine]

Like, do you need to go handle that? Okay.

[Emma]

On purpose. He took a big old hammer to it, so.

[Christine]

Okay, okay, got it. And he's like, just called to let.

[Emma]

You Know, he was like, I let you know the wall is gone. So good.

[Christine]

Good job.

[Emma]

I. When. When we're done recording, I'll check my security camera and see what it looks like construction.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. You can send him a treat on the front. Okay.

[Emma]

So you were saying you had ranch on your outfit and you look great.

[Christine]

Thank you so much. Oh, wow. Good memory. I also said Blaze was gay. Yes, gasp.

[Emma]

100%.

[Christine]

And then I needed to get the wine. And then we discussed how this might play out and all the terrible ways in which it might ended play out. So let's get to it. He had come out to Raya, and she was extremely supportive of him as his best friend and said, you love who you love. His family actually suspected he might have been gay for a long time. But his parents, they told him, you know, if you are, we will embrace you no matter what. But they never pressured him to. To come out to them. And so at this point in time, he was out at college, so he was at UPenn. He was out about his sexuality, but he didn't seem ready to talk about it at home. And his parents were totally fine and respectful of that. They just kind of like, sort of knew, you know, like it just wasn't an unsaid thing. And Gene was extremely proud of him. She literally didn't care. And it's like, so heartbreaking because, like, so many people don't have that support at home. And then for somebody with endless support, even from their own grandparents who've. Who've gone through literal hell at, like a concentration camp, and then to have something horrible happen to you, even though your parents, like, do everything in their power to care and protect, it's just so disturbing. So his parents respected that he didn't want to talk about it. Gene was proud of him either way. But now Raya is like, is this relevant? Because, like, that Sam guy was crazy. And she did not believe that Sam and Blaze would have randomly decided to hang out as friends. She later said in an interview that she considered Sam might have reached out for a hookup. But what terrified her is just as you mentioned, she could also imagine him organizing a meetup with an express intent to hurt Blaze as a trap. Basically an active, homophobic and anti Semitic hate, because, remember, he's also very proud Jewish man. She hoped desperately that Blaze would be found unharmed. But she really, she's. She's one of those people where she will just say what she's thinking. And she basically said, I thought he's dead. She's like, I heard Sam Woodward. I heard he went to Sam and he hasn't been seen. And I thought, he's dead.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

On January 9th, seven days after Blaze vanished, investigators decided to search Borrego park again. And they'd gone over what felt like every inch of ground and they didn't have any other leads. So they just looked one more time. It was cold out and there was heavy rainfall that was shifting the dirt. And for that reason, they were able to find Blaze's remains, which had been hastily buried under dirt and a large tree branch.

[Emma]

Hastily buried. Though I would have had you framed the story earlier where that was the only information I had. I would have assumed, oh, this was a impulsive job and someone did, because I would think hastily buried. Like you didn't have a plan.

[Christine]

Not premeditated.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

I think just because of the fact that they're like 20 and sure, he's just clearly not there. They are in with any humanity in him. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. And he has some. He has some excuses. So we'll get to those. The rain washed mud away to partial. Also, I think people overestimate how much of a hole they can dig. I'm not. That sounds like ironic, but I. Or like a joke. But I'm serious. Like, I think people think like, oh, I can just dig a hole real quick. And it's like, no. Well, it's a lot of work to dig.

[Emma]

It looks so easy. They make it look so easy on a movie. And also dogs can weirdly do it in five seconds flat.

[Christine]

Exactly. And it's like, there's one of you and you've already murdered a person. And now you're like, it's dark out. I need to fucking dig a hole. Like, even if you think it's deep, it's probably not deep. It's probably shallow and the rain can probably wash it away.

[Emma]

You know, Allison desperately wants one of those, like, free little libraries. And on their first like on the how tos on their website of like, how would you install this? They're like, oh, dig a two foot hole. And I'm like, I'm not fucking doing that.

[Christine]

Good luck with your free library. Yeah, I also desperately wanted a little free library. And then my neighbors put one up and I went, me? I guess. Just kidding. I actually just.

[Emma]

Those readers over there, those dirty readers.

[Christine]

I'm actually just so happy they did. It's also the house with a rainbow flag. So I feel like, okay, that's allowed. Of all people, like you're allowed to do that. Anyway, they discover his remains. It's something they didn't expect because they really had searched and searched, but the rain had really washed a lot of the land out. And they were able to spot his body. And next to his body they found his phone. They did an autopsy, which revealed that Blaze did not die of exposure or a wild animal attack. He had been stabbed over 24 times.

[Emma]

Holy crap.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

That is personal. I mean, it's just rage. It's just total hatred for some somebody.

[Christine]

Correct.

[Emma]

Wow.

[Christine]

Correct. He was stabbed over two dozen times in the neck and body. His hands were covered in defensive wounds. I mean, it makes me sick. Like Raya, the investigator searching for Blaze felt something was off about this Sam. Yeah. No. Okay, guys, don't say like. Like Raya. It's like she already knew. She was like. She was like, I know this guy. So they thought, we get better get back to this guy. And thankfully they had had already kept tabs on him because they were surveilling him and they watched him carefully clean out the interior of his car. That's strange for a 22 year old to be doing just for no reason.

[Emma]

Yep.

[Christine]

Then they executed a warrant at his house where he lived with his parents. And they discovered, wouldn't you know it, a bloody knife. Great. There was also still blood in his car, even though he tried to clean it. The blood in the car and on the knife. Knife was confirmed to belong to Blaze, and Sam Woodward was arrested under suspicion of murder. So in building their case against Sam, detectives discovered that Sam was a member of the Adam Waffen. I don't know how to say this. Atomwaffen division. I don't even want to say in German. It makes it sound worse. So I'm not actually. Let's take that back.

[Emma]

Sure.

[Christine]

Yeah. Somehow it makes it like, actually makes me want to throw up.

[Emma]

It's like I was there. I could just. The chills ran down my spine.

[Christine]

I regret saying that out loud. It's called the awd and it's an international neo Nazi terrorist organization.

[Emma]

Sure.

[Christine]

Right. None of us are surprised by this. Sam was an active and highly engaged member who specifically enjoyed engaging in acts of online violence against queer people. So he had really, like that exact kind of crossroads.

[Emma]

And also, you're a Nazi. I mean, what's worse than a Jewish person who. A Nazi. A gay one. Like, I mean, it's just exactly.

[Christine]

He found like the crossroads and he went to high school with this person, so he like, knows of him, you know, and it's like, that's so sick.

[Emma]

And also, like, you would think because you went to school with him, you should, like. Like he would be the one you have a shred of humanity for in some way, because you. You know what he's like. You know, his day to day. He's not this monster. You're probably like, spewing hatred.

[Christine]

But he's going around saying that the Holocaust was wrong.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And we can't have that.

[Emma]

No. No.

[Christine]

Okay. So in building their case against Sam, detectives discovered that he was this member of this AWD organization. He was very involved with it. And so when the case finally went to trial in 2024, the prosecution sought a first degree murder charge against Sam Woodward with the enhancement of a hate crime charge. If he were found guilty, Sam would face life without possibility of parole. Sam's defense team did not contest that Sam killed Blaze, because how could they? He had a bloody knife in his car. Instead, they tried to lessen the sentence. And doing that, they said, oh, this was not premeditated and it was not a hate crime.

[Emma]

Who the hell. Who's running this? Isn't that a sham?

[Christine]

Isn't that interesting? What a rack. Right.

[Emma]

Was one of his friends from that organization, the judge probably pro.

[Christine]

Well, the. Don't worry, he didn't get away with this. So if that's. If that's helpful. But his. His lawyer certainly tried to lessen the charge. They claimed. His lawyer claimed that he was not actually extremely dedicated to a wife. AWD or white supremacist Nazi ideology, which is like, good start, good start. They said Sam struggled to connect with other people and find community because of his autism. And that made him vulnerable to AWD recruitment tactics. Sam joined AWD seeking human connection and socialization and friendship. A. A former member of the group testified that no one at the meeting Sam attended took the ideology very seriously. He claimed they mostly drank alcohol and Satan socialized. But another former member testified that he attended meetings with Sam. And at these meetings, they created serious propaganda materials to add to that. Sam was photographed at a meeting doing a Nazi salute alongside other members who were holding up a Nazi flag and other symbols. And the AWD itself, being this international organization, is directly responsible for several acts of violence in the US and members have been documented actively recruiting on college campuses and even among the US Military because, of course, they value weapons. Weapons training, of course, which is what waffen means, weapons. It's the AWD mission to. This is literally their. What do you call it? What do you. What's A statement, a mission statement. Their mission statement is to incite a race war.

[Emma]

Great.

[Christine]

Where's your mother?

[Emma]

Yeah. Amen.

[Christine]

Like, literally, where's your mother?

[Emma]

She's probably in on it. She probably is. I don't know.

[Christine]

I gotta talk to her and put her.

[Emma]

Maybe she's not into it, I don't know, but she. Who knows how? Maybe she's incredibly involved in this and knows everything about it.

[Christine]

Well, she's got to hear from me. Okay? And I'm going to say, why would you do this? And that's about it.

[Emma]

I mean, like, I'm going to send.

[Christine]

Someone else who's better with confrontation.

[Emma]

Well, you know, in 2018, I mean, that was only two years into people being inciting or inciting things in ways that they have never had to experience before.

[Christine]

Fair point.

[Emma]

It was, it was two years into.

[Christine]

And the fact that the trial was in 2024, like four years after covet. Like, I mean, it's just so nauseating how, like, prescient and, like, timely and everywhere this is. And his parents talked about it in the documentary too. They said, like, what we've learned from this is that they're everywhere. They're fudgeing everywhere. They're in the oc, they're in the. They're on college campuses. They're. They're everywhere.

[Emma]

It's. It's, it's horrifying.

[Christine]

It's horrifying.

[Emma]

Um, and I, you know, all of us kind of sit in our own echo chambers. And so a lot of times in my mind, there's really, you know, we outnumber them. But then there's times where I'm like, my God, like, it feels evenly matched all of a sudden. Or.

[Christine]

No, I know it's scary. And especially when you think like, oh, they're recruiting in these ways that we don't see. They're recruiting online, they're recruiting in places that we don't necessarily see. College campuses, military environments, weapons. I mean, the weapons training alone is scary, right? For people who are like, even just.

[Emma]

Like red pill content. Like, I mean, I, Again, I think because I, I live in la, that I'm like, in this, like, big blue bubble. But then all of a sudden I see there's all these people that, like, I follow on social media, and all of a sudden they're posting, saying, like crazy, and I'm like, whoa.

[Christine]

They come out of the woodwork all of a sudden, and you're like, oh.

[Emma]

Like, I thought you were chill. Like, how many times have I been in a room Alone with you. And like, what were you thinking? You know, like, it's so scary.

[Christine]

And I also think, like, that points as well to. Things are shifting and people are getting warped perspectives and people are, like you said, getting red pill content and like, changing their values or like.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

You know, so even people that you might have thought 10 years ago they would never have said something like that. It's like maybe they've gotten in some rabbit hole and now.

[Emma]

Oh, yeah.

[Christine]

Style. They're like in this totally other universe.

[Emma]

Yeah. 100. It's horrifying.

[Christine]

It's horrifying. It's horrifying. And I mean, all this stuff, like these hate crime things, I just remember being in high school and Matthew Shepard and all these things were happening. And I remember thinking, like, this will finally show people, like, how. How up. Like we. I remember as high school kids, we were all just like. I mean, just like the horror of it. And it's like, just keeps happening. Like, how much, man? Okay.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

All right. So their goal is to incite a race war. Cool. Cool. It was difficult enough for the defense to try to sell AWD as this. Like. Okay, so now think about this. This is sort of like. Hear me out. Reminds me of the Cracker Barrel logo controversy, okay? Because these lawyers are.

[Emma]

What do you say? Speak on that. Speak on that.

[Christine]

Speak on that. Go on, speak on that. I will, because I think I have to.

[Emma]

Now.

[Christine]

Essentially what I'm trying to say is that the defense is trying to paint the AWD as this, like, spineless society where they're just actually drinking beer and they're not really strong enough or important enough or powerful enough to do anything like start a race war. Right. But of course, the people in the AWD are like, what the. And the reason this reminds me of the Cracker Barrel thing is because everybody was like, how dare you? You're changing. Like, you're coming woke and all this. And then the literal President of the United States. Not a joke. Listen to the beach to Sandy Cracker Barrel series about this. The President of the United States called the Cracker Barrel CEO and said, you have to change the logo back. Literally happened hours later, Cracker Barrel announced they were changing the logo back. And then everybody on the right said, you spineless pieces of shit. The president tells you to do it and you just do it. And now everyone hates Cracker Barrel. So it's like this. Like, you can't win, but, like, it's with Nazis.

[Emma]

Yeah, you know what? It's almost as if Nazis just don't Play fair.

[Christine]

Almost as if it's.

[Emma]

It's. It could be. Be that they're just not nice. I don't know.

[Christine]

Ancient alien theorists, they're not called nice, you know? Yes, they're not.

[Emma]

They're not. I don't know what to tell you.

[Christine]

Not. Not.

[Emma]

Man, that's so. It's like a challenge if you don't exactly.

[Christine]

It's a challenge because they're like, oh, no, no, no. These are just like little boys. They don't know what they're doing. But like the awd, right? The one guy comes on and goes, now we really want weapons and we want to inside a race war. So it's like, okay, which one is it? Okay.

[Emma]

So insane.

[Christine]

So it would be a challenge as well to convince a jury that Sam didn't actively participate as an individual. Here's why. They had proof. Evidence that Sam traveled to Colorado to meet a man named James Mason. James Mason was an extremist writer, and his writings are the basis for many of the AWD tenants. He posed proudly for a photo with this man because he clearly admired. Hired him, and he also traveled to Texas to attend what is essentially an AWD retreat.

[Emma]

What the are they doing at this retreat?

[Christine]

You. I don't want to know. I literally. Honestly, I don't usually mean that when I say it, but I literally don't want to know because I think I have an idea.

[Emma]

I think I have an idea too.

[Christine]

Right. His computer was filled with anti Semitic and homophobic content. The defense team tried to argue that, well, he was struggling with his own sexuality, which, like, he did. I know. And it's like, this is up. This is the. That. Yes, Yes.

[Emma]

I. I gotta say, I think you, me, and Eva all combined have probably struggled with our sexuality at one point or not. And none of us have ever thought to do that.

[Christine]

So damaging, like, to propagate like that.

[Emma]

Oh, yeah. I mean, all it does is just tell people that queer people are violent.

[Christine]

And, like, closeted people are just gonna snap and stab somebody. Like, what are you talking about?

[Emma]

Or open people. I mean, the propaganda this week about fairness trans people is like, we are. We are responsible for most of the.

[Christine]

You can't.

[Emma]

Mass shootings. What the. Who's. Like, who's decided that we're just gonna say things now? You know, the, like are just so easily Googleable.

[Christine]

Yeah. Who decided words mean nothing because it wasn't me Wild.

[Emma]

No, I mean, all it does is say, like, oh, well, they are queer, so therefore they're violent, and therefore they should be taken out before they hurt us.

[Christine]

And therefore, like we should. Yeah, we should be scared. But it's just. Yeah, it's, it's hard.

[Emma]

Horrible.

[Christine]

It's horrible. So this is what they argued, that Sam grew up in a devoutly Catholic household. His mother testified that his father raised him to believe that homosexuality was a sin. They claimed Sam's. Sam's father used homophobic slurs again. Like a lot of dads do this shit people. It doesn't make you stab somebody 24 times. Sorry. A lot of gay out gay people, queer people had shitty parents. Like, you can't just tell me, oh, you had a shitty, shitty.

[Emma]

Join the club again. All of us have. Are queer. All of us are. All of us on the. Of the trio. Of the geo's trio. None of us have. This has not ever once crossed my mind. I got other things to worry about. Like, like you're kissing a girl.

[Christine]

Kissing a girl. I'm like, like your livelihood.

[Emma]

And like my livelihood and like what? Like I'm too busy worrying about if people are ever going to hurt me than to think about hurting somebody. Like, what are you talking about?

[Christine]

It's just absolute total.

[Emma]

I can't. And, and some assery. Sure.

[Christine]

Dumbassery.

[Emma]

Dumbassery, assery. I mean, let's just start to start putting cuss words together. I don't know. You know, there is a limit to my empathy for people who are closeted and like struggle, struggling.

[Christine]

If you can't just throw that out there, like, oh, now they'll accept it.

[Emma]

Like if, like I, I feel for everyone that's going through that. But if it turns into like this inward hatred where you're now going to project it and via violence, obviously I'd have a problem with you, but it's also not happening. I don't think nearly as much as these people are trying to.

[Christine]

No. And that's like such a harmful trope that they always pitch like, oh well, like, because you were closeted, that's why you acted. It's like, no fucking you and like.

[Emma]

Or because you're open and mad at everybody else for having a problem with it. Like.

[Christine]

Right, exactly.

[Emma]

It's because you're gay and it doesn't.

[Christine]

And exactly. Thank you. And like being queer does not obviously make you a good person. It makes you a better person, but it doesn't make you a good person.

[Emma]

Funnier certainly.

[Christine]

Right. Like there are inherent good traits about you suddenly, but beyond that, like, no, it doesn't mean you're not a bad person. A Murderer, A liar. Like, it doesn't. A shitty person. Parent. I know plenty of queer people in.

[Emma]

I know a lot of gay people who suck, but who are terrible people.

[Christine]

And who hurt other people and who are. And it's not. Whatever.

[Emma]

But. But, like, there's a lot of ways I could find accurate stereotypes in queer people, and one of them is definitely not that they're murderers, I'll tell you that.

[Christine]

Correct. There it is. That's like, literally, show me any sort of proof of that. Really, you cannot. So, Right. They're claiming, like, oh, well. And of course, it's his mother saying, well, his dad didn't like gay people, and so she's trying to cover for him. Unfortunately for Sam's defense, and fortunately for the rest of us, that did not align with the fact that Sam actually kept track of his homophobic terror tactics in emails to himself.

[Emma]

Okay, and.

[Christine]

And it was called Sam's Diary of Hate.

[Emma]

Shut up. What is with the. Why they all have manifestos? I'm so literal.

[Christine]

Manifestos. And also, like, emailing yourself. That is so, like, 1998. Yeah, get a Google Doc, you weirdo. Stop emailing yourself in, like, 2024 or whatever.

[Emma]

Why? Just like, your live journal, you know.

[Christine]

Snapchat yourself, you dumb.

[Emma]

So he. So he has a manifesto called his Diary of Hate, which isn't even creative.

[Christine]

Not even good. No, no, no. And in these emails, he describes downloading dating apps to find queer men, and then he would terrorize them.

[Emma]

He said, by the way, I'm sorry. I'm not. I'm not.

[Christine]

Go on.

[Emma]

But, like, this is a. A lot of problems. How do I say this concisely? Because all I want to do is ramble about this. A lot of the world's problems are just a lot of men out there, gay that don't believe that they are. Or maybe they believe that they are. But homophobia has caused so much actual violence in the way that if people were just open with themselves, they wouldn't hurt people. But instead, they have these manifestos and they think that they're reacting normally. Like, why don't you just kiss a man? Like, there's nothing gayer than being so obsessed with gay men that, like, just kiss a boy. Like, shut the up. Why are you killing people?

[Christine]

Well put. Because when they say, like, oh, well, he was just closet gay, it's like, we don't even know that for a fact. But you're right. Like, this is getting weird. Like, the obsession with targeting gay men.

[Emma]

There's. I'm like, there's there's nothing gayer than constantly thinking about gay men. Gay straight people think about gay people way more than gay people think about gay people. Never thinking. I'm literally never thinking about people being gay. It's only straight people who just want to hurt us. In which case, why are you so obsessed with us? Because you're.

[Christine]

Btw, this is exactly right. Speaking of my friend Nicole, who did definitely guess about the butt portal. She's psychic and stuff. Go listen to a psychic story. But she and I went to a show recently, like a live show, and we went and used the bathroom afterward. And this was a show where the audience was mainly women or girls. And so we saw the really long line and we just thought, let's just pop into the men's room. There's nobody in there. Well, I should have known better, cuz we were in Indiana. And we walked out.

[Emma]

Welcome to hell.

[Christine]

And this man said to me, what the are you doing? And he got so in our faces, aggressive. And he started saying, you're a predator. My son is a child. Like, you're a predator. And I'm like, dude, I'm like drunk off two chardonnays. You like, what do you mean I'm a predator? God damn it. Why are you shouting at a woman like, Jesus, you're a predator. Like, you're literally actively screaming at me and you're terrifying the out of me. And your kid peeing and washing my hands. Leave me alone. And your poor child is like, I just am nine years old again, like.

[Emma]

Obsessed with queer people.

[Christine]

Why are you. What?

[Emma]

Why are you so desperate to meet a queer person just to yell at them, all the feelings waiting.

[Christine]

And it's like, we're not even queer. We just like went in there to use a bathroom at. We were. I'm not saying we're not quick, but I'm like, we're not.

[Emma]

Yeah, you're not a predator.

[Christine]

We're not making a statement. I'm not like in there to be like, look at me. Like, off.

[Emma]

This is why the Republican Conference is like, they. They have the highest Grinder points or whatever it is for like, just.

[Christine]

Yep.

[Emma]

Secretly banging each other. Just stop being homophobic. That's literally. That would solve so many crimes. As if people just accepted that they can kiss boys and no one's going to get mad about it. And you don't.

[Christine]

You don't have who you want. You stop it.

[Emma]

It's like, let's. If you're wondering if you're queer or if you're Trying to hide it from yourself. Let's. Let me just tell you now, you're the only one thinking about queer people this much. Let's, let's once.

[Christine]

Right. So, okay. Eva and I talked about this at one point and I, I don't want to throw under the bus. I will ask her to make sure this is okay. But like just as a vague idea. We were talking about deconstruction, corrupting our past in sure, me, Catholicism, her kind of the evangelical world. It's far scarier in my opinion. But grass is greener, Etc. Grass is less green. I don't know. And so she and I were talking about it and we talked about like how they would instill this fear of like if you have gay thoughts, impure thoughts. And it's like, of course that's right. For someone like me who has OCD and is like, oh, like I can't even think about certain things or else I will go to hell. Cuz God's always thinking my reading my thoughts. Like, I mean, it really is such a twisted, warped, you gotta just not let that rule your life. Because then you end up being a shithead Republican or a murderer.

[Emma]

Well, yeah, if you're told you're both dirty your whole life and then all of a sudden we see like people like me, people like you are like, I don't give a shit what some.

[Christine]

Glorified and living their best lives. Like, yeah, you're gonna feel resentful. Y, I get it.

[Emma]

It's like, but if you're, if you're, if you don't want to because you think it's dirty or impure, that's your life. But if you're thinking you're overcoming it while still being obsessed with other people who are openly happy. That's not my problem.

[Christine]

Like, I want to clarify. I don't think he ever said he had any, he never said he had any. Like, gay.

[Emma]

No, I don't think he did either. I, I, My thought is just like, he clearly has a manifesto of hate where he's done this before. It's like, why are you, why are you a ho?

[Christine]

A pastime?

[Emma]

Yeah. So like your, your hobby behind the scenes, when no one's looking, is just thinking about gay people, just talking and.

[Christine]

Thinking about gay men. Like think about what that looks like.

[Emma]

Like that's there, There are straighter things to do than that. You know what I mean? Been thinking about gay men all the time.

[Christine]

Straighter, like collecting guns. Just kidding.

[Emma]

Sorry. I know this is like so like we're Just beating a dead horse here. But I will beat the dead horse until it's six feet under. Come on.

[Christine]

As if we're gonna build a hole that. Dig a hole. Build a hole. As if we're going to be able to build a six foot hole.

[Emma]

We're going to dig a six foot hole, beat the horse until it's in there, and then put my stupid little free little library on top of it.

[Christine]

I was about to say, at least we'll have a place for you.

[Emma]

Anyway. Sorry, I. I know we like, I know we drove that point home a long time ago, but it's a constant thought of mine. It's just like shitty people who are just so mad at gay people for seemingly no fucking reason there. It begs the question why you're thinking so often about this unless you're fighting it yourself, unless you're struggling with it yourself.

[Christine]

Why are you thinking about it so much?

[Emma]

Like, it's weird. It's weird.

[Christine]

It's weird.

[Emma]

Like, just don't.

[Christine]

It's like when men think about like women all the time and they're like trying to like, it's like, what are you doing? Like, yeah, I've never hobby.

[Emma]

I've never thought about gay people as much as straight people who hate gay people. I'm just like, it's not. You're wasting your.

[Christine]

Why? Right. Just because. Why? Because it's clearly emotionally charged for them, right? Because like they make that super, super clear.

[Emma]

I'm emotionally charged. I'm. I've said my piece like 10,000 times. We're done. I'm sorry.

[Christine]

This.

[Emma]

Where. What happened next? Just give.

[Christine]

I think we knew. I mean, we knew we would get here. And also, I don't give a fuck. Okay. You know, I came back. I came back from Egypt. I don't care anymore.

[Emma]

You're like, I'm a whole new person. I'm gonna say whatever the fuck I want.

[Christine]

I am. I am gonna say whatever the fuck I want.

[Emma]

Good for you.

[Christine]

Republicans are all gay. And I hate all of them.

[Emma]

Certainly.

[Christine]

So we're all Democrats, them all.

[Emma]

They're all.

[Christine]

Any. Anybody. They're all gay.

[Emma]

Them all, certainly.

[Christine]

I like how I say they're all gay. Like, it's a slur. I'm like, them, they're all gay. And it's like, well, honestly, to me that's a compliment to them.

[Emma]

No, Every now and then I still call things gay derogatorily because I think it's hysterical.

[Christine]

It's very funny. And you are allowed to say that, I believe.

[Emma]

Thank you and I know that I'm.

[Christine]

Allowed to give you that permission.

[Emma]

I think that could be the double entendre, though, is that a lot of men are gay. And, like, I mean it both ways. Like.

[Christine]

Like they're gay in the worst way. Yeah. Use their own insults against them, you know?

[Emma]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Emma]

Sorry. Men are terrible.

[Christine]

No, no, don't be. Don't apologize. Because it's worth. It's so worth discussing because it just. It gets worse. Okay.

[Emma]

Okay.

[Christine]

So he emails these men in this, Sam's Diary of Hate. And in the emails, he describes downloading dating apps to find queer men. And then he would text terrorize them. He sent photos to other men of gay men being harmed, tortured, and killed.

[Emma]

Sick.

[Christine]

Sick. It was clear that Sam was actively using dating apps to target and terrorize members of the queer community. And in one email, he actually wrote to himself. Again, pathetic that this is really hard for me to read in all seriousness, so forgive me, but here we go. The email. Email says, quote, they're terrified. Lmao. One even said he was gonna report me to the FBI. Go ahead and try, pal. This is too much fun. They think they're gonna get hate crimed, and it scares the out of them. Priceless. Now, the curse words before scares the blank out of them, and blank, priceless were removed during reporting because apparently that's way too divisive.

[Emma]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

But, yeah, so I'm just kind of pretending what I think would be there, but I. Either way, it says it scares the blank out of them. Blank and priceless. And it was through Tinder that Sam and Blaze first made contact with each other. Blaze told Sam he was attractive, and Sam replied, you're not too bad looking yourself, Blaze. Sam asked Blaze if anyone was nearby by. When Blaze said no, Sam said, I might make an exception for you. So they moved their conversation to Snapchat, where Blaze sent Sam his address. Sam picked Blaze up, and shortly afterward, he took Blaze to the park, and that is where he stabbed him more than 25 times in the neck and legs. Sam took the stand and was asked whether he ever in his life questioned his sexuality or considered he might be gay. Of course he said no. He's a confident straight man.

[Emma]

What? Okay. I mean, again, as we've established, all homophobes are probably gay, at least a little bit.

[Christine]

Well, I mean, everyone's a little gay, right? But, like.

[Emma]

But they're more gay.

[Christine]

If you're so obsessed, there's something wrong. Yeah, there's. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So why Else would he have met up with Blaze that night if not with the intent to harm him? In a final attempt at his own defense, because none of this shit is working. Sam testifies that he was actually smoking marijuana on a bench with Blaze and he started to fall asleep. This is where I get furious. And I imagine Blaze's parents were ready to. I mean, throw down, because he says, oh, he woke up to the feeling of someone's. He blames Blaze for. He says he was trying to sexually assault him.

[Emma]

Oh, great, great.

[Christine]

He says, I fell asleep on a bench, and all of a sudden I felt my. Someone's hand on my crotch. And he realized that he was. His pants were being unbuckled.

[Emma]

Shut the up. So, like, now it's self defense.

[Christine]

Now it's his fault. Exactly.

[Emma]

So he went out hoping to find someone to hurt and then feigns self defense when he gets busted. Yeah, just like a classic.

[Christine]

I mean, yeah, literally. I'm like. I'm trying to think of any other way to pitch it, but no, you're right. That's. That's literally it.

[Emma]

So, so stupid. It's like, I'm gonna go walk into a house of fire and then, oh, no, I got burned. It was not my fault at all. Whoops. But it's like, just idiot. I don't know. I don't know. I don't even know how to compare the two. I'm just mad. I'm just so, so. Because it's like, we already hate this man.

[Christine]

This is a bad person. So he said all of a sudden, of course, the classic. That the gay people are just gonna assault you, sexually assault you, because they, of course, help themselves, right?

[Emma]

Not only are we all violent predators who should be taken out before we try to hurt you, but we're also all promiscuous. Right? That's how that goes.

[Christine]

Well, okay. I. I remember one of my youngest, like, arguments I ever actually won with somebody. It was a family member and, like, an extended family member. And they said something like, well, I would have. Wouldn't want a gay man teaching my son. Like, I wouldn't want a gay and preschool teacher, a man to be teaching my son. And I went, why? And they were like, oh, well, in case, like, he does something to my son. And I was like, that. If you were straight, you're not worried you would do something to your daughter? Or.

[Emma]

Yeah, exactly.

[Christine]

We're a straight woman that he. She wouldn't do anything. Or like, what kind of logic is that? And I remember them like, the person this was why I remember it. The person went, huh? And I don't think I've ever like, had a moment in my life where a person I was arguing with just shut down.

[Emma]

That's usually beautiful.

[Christine]

I'm wrong no matter what. But like, I just remember that moment of like, I don't have a comeback. And I was like, there you have it. But like, off. Yeah, okay, actually. And that was after all, the other didn't work, right? So here he's like, if that really happened, wouldn't you have said that right off the bat? You know, and then they don't believe women, right? Because.

[Emma]

Anyway, let's. Let's unpack everything.

[Christine]

So let's talk about this.

[Emma]

Jesus Christ. The poor people who just want to.

[Christine]

Hear this story, they've left a long time ago. I wouldn't worry about them. Our poor team. Who has to listen to this, right?

[Emma]

Jack Years or stream.

[Christine]

Sorry, Jack. So Megan. Etc. Okay, so why else would he have met? Right? So like he claims. Oh, well, I. Yeah, I just went and I fell asleep. And then he put his hand on my crotch. And then I realized he was taking photos of me on his phone. And he said, I got you, like, basically like trapping him.

[Emma]

I got a sucker punch. This guy right in the.

[Christine]

No, I know. Sam said Blaze was assaulting him and he planned to use the photos to make people believe. Believe he was gay. I mean, again, get a grip. Sam said he then attacked Blaze in a state of terror and defense. He said that as he stabbed Blaze. This part I believe. The only true thing I believe he experienced, quote, an anger like nothing I'd ever felt in my whole life.

[Emma]

That I believe as well.

[Christine]

That I believe.

[Emma]

But also, I'm so sorry, but I mean, maybe I don't know what it's like luckily to have to defend myself against an attack attacker, but I don't think I'd stick around for 24 stabs. No, you know what I mean? I'd go, yeah, get away from.

[Christine]

Hey, by the way, not if I were in something called the weapon Nazi group or whatever. The. The Nazi group where we have weapons training. Like, please.

[Emma]

Yeah, I just. Like, I. Like I'm waiting for. I don't even know what I'm waiting for. I'm waiting for this to be over because.

[Christine]

I know. Me too. I know.

[Emma]

So obsessed upset.

[Christine]

The defense's overall tactic, as we can probably gather, was completely confused. So the defense argued that Sam was not that committed to awd, which obviously seemed untrue. He's traveling to meet these people's like heroes, right? Like the people who wrote he. He goes out of his way to meet these people. Then the defense argues that he struggled with his own sexuality, which he denies on the stand because he's not going to say he's gay, right?

[Emma]

No, no, no, no, exactly.

[Christine]

Then they argue that he did not hate gay men. And then they're like, well, what about his diary of hate? Yeah, like, like they're. It's an impossible task.

[Emma]

I don't like food. What about your diary full of snacks? What are you talking about?

[Christine]

What if you're. Yeah, what about your diary of a foodie and how much I love food?

[Emma]

What about your food magazine from high school?

[Christine]

Yes, exactly. What about that black and white photo of you in a chef's hat, huh? I'm gonna put that on the fuck thing. Not even the forensics of the stab wounds on Blaze's body aligned with Sam's story of a self defense attack on the bench, Right? Like, because he's claiming, oh, I woke up, I was all groggy because of the weed. And then this guy attacks me and I stabbed him. No, none of that. None of that.

[Emma]

What does that even mean? He. He drugged you with the devil's lettuce. Like, you've, first of all, never had any. And second of all, it's not how it works. Yeah, I've never even had any. And I know that.

[Christine]

Exactly. I mean, you're right. Like, I think they were trying to go for the boom. Maybe the boot boomer, like. And I say that not despairing disparagingly. I mean, I do say in this case disparagingly, not all boomers. Okay, but like, the idea of, like, oh, well, it was weed. Oh, no, then we know something.

[Emma]

Satanic panic.

[Christine]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. I think that's what it was. Like a Hail Mary, honestly, like a last ditch effort. Good thing. Spoiler alert. Did not work. Okay, so after eight hours of deliberation, the jury declared Sam Woodward guilty of murder in the first degree. And in the courtroom recording, you can hear his mom, you can hear Blaze's mom, Jean exclaim, thank God. He was also found guilty of the hate crime enhancement, and he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. When asked about the trial, Blaze's family was not. I love this. Not interested. Completely disinterested in confronting Sam. Good said, this is the most powerful thing of all. Gene said Sam was meaningless to her.

[Emma]

I love that. Good for her.

[Christine]

That's it. That's why we're saying that's why? Emma's saying, if you're obsessing over gay people, like, that's on. Look inward, look inward. I went to Egypt. I figured out I'm not the fucking creme de la creme of everybody's problems over here. Look inward. Whatever my problem is, is my problem. Nobody else's like, this is crazy making. And then she's like, I don't give a shit about. About that piece.

[Emma]

I. There is an episode of Law and Order SVU guest starring Ludicrous.

[Christine]

And. Sorry, that is really not where I expected that sentence to go.

[Emma]

And I see, basically, Ludicrous is his son's half brother, and he's like, he's a bad guy.

[Christine]

That feels right.

[Emma]

And Ice Tea. Or Ludicrous says something like, oh, you're gonna wish I was coming back to your family. You're gonna wish that I, you know, that you didn't make an enemy out of me. And Ice Tea was like, oh, no. After you walk away, I'll never think of you again.

[Christine]

Yes.

[Emma]

And it's just like.

[Christine]

It's the.

[Emma]

You just shut it down. It's just like all the power you thought you gained from this. Like, you will never bother me.

[Christine]

Every Fall Out Boy lyric, right? Like, oh, like, there is a song called I don't care, and it's like, I don't care what you think about me or I don't care. Hold on, let me sing it. I don't care what you think as long as it's about me. So there's such a power of, like, I don't think about you, you know?

[Emma]

Yeah, it's very much the, like, an egregious version of, like, when you ignore your sibling who's trying to piss you off. Like, I imagine that feeling. It's just like, oh, actually, like, you. You don't even. There's no space for you.

[Christine]

The second you engage or react, then you're suddenly, like, feeding. Feeding it. Yes. My God, Em, we should talk more.

[Emma]

Okay.

[Christine]

We have so much in common.

[Emma]

I. You know, I think I could do it for a few years. I don't know about you.

[Christine]

I'll think about it. Okay. So Jean said Sam was meaningless to her. Love it, love it, love it.

[Emma]

That's part of this whole story.

[Christine]

I mean, his grandmother, who survived a concentration camp, was still alive. Is still alive. Like, think about. She has to watch this happen.

[Emma]

I can't even imagine the thought of like. Like thinking, not only did I did. Well, I guess she didn't escape the holocaust. She endured it.

[Christine]

And, oh, Very fair. Yeah.

[Emma]

But to know that, like, I survived just for two generations later, this to still be happening, to move to Southern.

[Christine]

California in a safe, quiet neighborhood. My. The survivors goes to an Ivy League school.

[Emma]

I mean, the literal survivor's guilt of I survived the Holocaust cost him my grandson. This happens to him, like, I mean, holy.

[Christine]

The way they talk about him is just beautiful. And I imagine that if you've. I mean, I couldn't know, but I imagine if you've gone through that kind of a trauma, like. Well, I don't know. I don't know. I'm not even going to speak on it. I don't have any.

[Emma]

It's. It's just so sad. It's just so sad.

[Christine]

So Blaze's grandfather Richard said he didn't need to look Sam in the eye. No interest. When asked why, he said, I mean, these people are kings and queens, okay? When asked why, he said, because he's a footnote in history.

[Emma]

Oh, wow. I love that.

[Christine]

Fuck, yeah. And this is a neo Nazi, by the way. Like, it's not like, oh, he's just a homophobe. Like, he's also a neo Nazi.

[Emma]

And the psychology of it, too, is that, like, a lot of people who join those organizations, they're just desperate to be like, the alpha or to be in charge of your life or to rule somebody or to.

[Christine]

OR two.

[Emma]

To make you feel small. And it's just like, well, no, you're a man. You could do all that and you still didn't do it.

[Christine]

Perfect. Perfectly put, I think.

[Emma]

I don't know.

[Christine]

People, no, people much stronger than you who literally endured, like you said, the Holocaust, feel much stronger than you literally. Don't even want to give you a second glance. Don't even want to look you in the eye because you're that pathetic. Like, there it is.

[Emma]

Good luck.

[Christine]

So, of course, because he was such a special. I was gonna say kid, but also, man, he was 20 when he died. When his funeral was arranged, the attendees had to RSVP because the venue could only hold 1200 people. And.

[Emma]

Wow.

[Christine]

I know. So many people loved. Talk about. Not a footnote in history.

[Emma]

Hell, yeah. That's 12. That's 1200 plus people who were all going to remember him personally.

[Christine]

Get this. They held a second funeral in a large public venue and that saw 3,000 people in attendance.

[Emma]

Holy.

[Christine]

And I really love this again, like, I hate to keep saying, like, a power move, but, man, this is just like, they're doing everything so meaningfully. The students from osha, the performing Arts school he was in performed the song Most People are Good and I'm like, oh, that just gives me chills. The park where Blaze played as a child and then died became a memorial to his memory. People began leaving painted stones dedicated to Blaze and his creative artistic spirit. And then people began painting and sending stones to the park from all over the world. So it wasn't just local people. Yeah, people would mail these stones in to put a permanent memorial in the park. Every single person who met Blaze remembers him as someone larger than life. In his college admissions essay, he wrote that every version of himself lives on in his writing. Sorry, this is hard to read. This is a quote from his college essay. Remember he got into an Ivy League school. As I change, my words change. But even after days or months or years, I can still find a version of myself, a time traveler from the past, present or future, sitting there in the text and waiting. Especially speak to me. Hello. A 17 year old wrote that 10 out of 10. Many people still seek inspiration, passion and joy in Blazes published pieces. And his memory persists as a force of good in the world. His mom said Blaze's memory and spirit will live on in every kind deed done in his honor. And his loved ones basically just ask that people do acts of good and think about Blaze especially to protect and uplift people in marginalized conditions, communities. And it was really sweet. In the documentary, his dad was like, no matter where he was sitting and which interview he was in, he was always wearing like this, it was like a rainbow shirt or like something like, you can just tell that they're just so passionate about this.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

And it's sad and special. Gene said Blaze's life mattered and he has a legacy to create good news, to inspire people to be better, to be kinder and to work, work on repairing the world because it's not too late and we can make it better. And to have parents who've lost their eldest son to such a violent and horrific hate crime, to say it's not too late to fix the world like that to me is a very powerful statement because sometimes I think it's too late. And I've not gone through anything remotely like that, you know?

[Emma]

Yeah, I, the, the, the level of, I don't know, compassion, patience, I don't know what the right word is, but I don't have it.

[Christine]

Compassion is a great word because it's like we can fix this for other people, hopefully, you know, And I think that we see it a lot with survivors, families or not survivors, victims Families or survivors of. Of violent crime, where they're like, how can we use this for good? Which I just always am. Like, this is why. Why love always wins. I know it's cliche and homophobes are.

[Emma]

Always gay.

[Christine]

But I. It's like, I almost don't want to give them that. I'm like, I'll do it. You wish. Yeah, I'm like, you wish you were part of the club, you piece of.

[Emma]

Maybe that's why you stay in the closet. Yeah, you stay in the closet because you just know the other gays wouldn't like you.

[Christine]

Yeah, you're not cool enough. Yeah, no, it's just. It's just like, it sucks that I remember. Like, it sucks that we probably all remember the Matthew Shepard thing. And, I mean, at least it just was such a horrific thing. And, like, of course, has been happening for ever since the dawn of humankind, but just that, like, the absolute. I think it was also probably the timing, right? Like, we were, what, like freshman in high school or, like, eighth grade or something? Like, we were.

[Emma]

I don't remember what year, but I remember growing up hearing his name.

[Christine]

It was a very. It was like a very. What's the word? Like, a very. A time where we were very vulnerable.

[Emma]

To an innocent time. A time of innocence.

[Christine]

Not innocence, but, like, molding. Like. Like it was formative. Formative, yes, it was a very formative time. And I remember the Matthew Shepard. And, like, at school. School, we would. We made these posters and, like, sort of like you. I went to this private school. And I remember, like, even at my Catholic private school, we were all, like, horrified. And like, even the religion teachers, you know, because this was, like, such an extreme. I mean, of course, every case like this deserves that much of respect and attention and horror. But I just remember being. Being like, certainly this will make people realize. And it's like, cool. We're in. We're past covet. I mean, past covet. But we're five years post Covid. There's still trials for this where we're just saying, oh, he's closeted. That's why he stabbed him 25 times. Oh, he also likes he's gay. Like, off.

[Emma]

Also. I don't understand the argument of, like, oh, well, it's because he was closet. It's like, so now do you want someone to have compassion for gay people all of a sudden? When that was like, your whole shtick is that, well, you hate gay people because you're closeted.

[Christine]

It's like, so the only thing they Wanted was to like make it so. The only reason they did that is because they didn't want it to be a hate crime. Because if it's a hate crime, then the sentencing is so much worse. So their whole thing was, yeah, yeah, yeah, he killed him, but it's cuz he was gay. And it. So it wasn't a hate crime because he was gay.

[Emma]

I see.

[Christine]

Didn't work.

[Emma]

Good.

[Christine]

Because also he said, I'm not gay gay.

[Emma]

I love how like you would you hate gay people until all of a sudden, like maybe being one save your life. Like, what the is going on?

[Christine]

Literally. I know, I know, I know, I know. So predictable.

[Emma]

And also, wasn't that like pretty directly parallel to Matthew Shepard? Wasn't he also tricked into going on a date with somebody? Or was he. Or was he.

[Christine]

I think he was lured.

[Emma]

Lord.

[Christine]

Okay, yeah. Into like Lord.

[Emma]

That's the right word. I've not tricked into going got a date. That's how I got Allison.

[Christine]

But I think he was so young. I think he was. I think he was like. I think he was lured into a. And you know, like, I don't know. I have nothing else to say. I'm just like, it's, you know, we've said what we need to say 20 times. 20 times. I said 10. 10 times.

[Emma]

We're in overwhelm. In a. In a state of overwhelm.

[Christine]

Oh my God. He died in 1998. Why am I pretending like I was in high school? I was seven years old. But maybe that's why I remember.

[Emma]

I still remember growing up hearing his name. So.

[Christine]

Man.

[Emma]

Yeah, that's rough, man.

[Christine]

So that's that. Really sick. Really sickening. I know it's tough and I'm sorry because I know that this is true crime and no true crime is ever going to be easy breezy, Mac and cheesy. But, you know, it's important we talk about the spectrum of them if we're going to talk about it at all.

[Emma]

And I mean, it's also not that you did that's on purpose, but it is incredibly topical given the red pilling alt. Right Neo Nazi organizations that are quite abundant in 2025. If you could tell all of our World War II grandfathers that, well, mine would be thrilled. Okay, so everyone but Christine's grandpa. Have you told mine.

[Christine]

Grandpa's. Sorry, plural.

[Emma]

Christine, you come from such a tragic life.

[Christine]

Can I tell you something? This is part of my Egypt thing. I'm like, what the. My grandparents were Nazis. I'm not gonna pretend like they Weren't. I'm so sick of this. I'm sick of everyone being like, our family was actually completely different because our family would never do that, and we were just forced to. To do it. You.

[Emma]

You know, what would they would hate, though? This is your own personal redemption is that a grandchild of Nazis is friends with a grandchild of people who escaped the Holocaust.

[Christine]

Okay, so I'll do you one better. No offense, I feel that this is a power couple we're doing. But multiple of my cousins have married black men, Jew, Orthodox Jewish men, women. I'm talking girl cousins. And I'm like, oh, they're already. They're turning in their graves so hard that nothing I can do can.

[Emma]

That's when they say, like, karma, like, comes in threes or something. It's. Or things come in threes. It's like, well, for every bad thing you did, we're just gonna have give you multiple grandkids who are just gonna do the exact opposite what you would have hoped for them.

[Christine]

It's such a power move. And now that I'm finally doing my, like, genealogy, I'm like, I don't. Like, I want to know. Like, nobody wants to know. Everyone wants to come cover it up. No, I'm done with that. I'm done with that. And hey, here's me saying that I hope everyone listens care. Okay? You can come at me and say, don't say that about your grandparents, okay? Then you explain. You explain why they're in a nuts uniform in their wedding picture. Tell me. I'd love to know.

[Emma]

You know what? If anyone has a problem with you you rebuking your shitty grandparents, which I don't think you're going to find in our community.

[Christine]

I mean, you're going to find it in my community, and I will say they're going to find me. And that's fine because I have an alarm system. Use a promo code drink for simply. But seriously, I like when I said, like, I've texted m about it a bit, but like, when actually at the. At the Delta Lounge when I was like, leaving for Egypt, I was texting you about it. My extended family got involved in some family drama and tried to get involved. And I'm like, you know what? I've actually am so done being scared of these people. I don't give a shit. I'm done being scared of them. Hey, they were all Nazis. What the fuck am I doing? Like, hiding that from anybody.

[Emma]

Yeah, I think Nazis are the ones people that. That need.

[Christine]

They don't need protection. Exactly.

[Emma]

If they're as tough as they think they are, they don't need anyone protecting.

[Christine]

Thank you. Thank you. Closeted gay or not.

[Emma]

Yeah. And they're dead.

[Christine]

So, like, they're literally dead, thankfully.

[Emma]

Because who cares? Like, what, What Their reputation. Cancel culture. They're dead. It's fine.

[Christine]

And if, like, if you feel it reflects badly on you, once again, look in within. Right? Hey, this is the last episode ever. And that's why I drink.

[Emma]

Because we've peaked.

[Christine]

We've said. We've said the wisest, stupidest we've ever said.

[Emma]

All we've done is repeatedly for like three hours, said, homophobe people. Homophobes are gay. Nazis are bad. And that's kind of.

[Christine]

Remember when I went. It's like when I. It's like when people study abroad for a semester and they come back. Like, I went to Egypt for two weeks and I'm like, everybody, I'm a changed woman. Listen up again.

[Emma]

Christina's writing a dopamine high that I'm so jealous of. I'm so jealous. I would love a dopamine rush like that.

[Christine]

Just so freeing. You can do it, Em.

[Emma]

I know, like, you know how to do it.

[Christine]

You just stop giving a. You know what you realize. You really realize.

[Emma]

What?

[Christine]

Nothing fucking matters. You know, I've been saying that for so long.

[Emma]

I know that's one of your catchphrases.

[Christine]

What are they gonna do? We're white people. Like, we're fucking in the most privileged position. I can fucking do what I want. And I'm gonna.

[Emma]

You tell.

[Christine]

Tell you that my grandfathers were Nazis. And I think part of my life mission is to call that out and get it out and work on that.

[Emma]

Good for you.

[Christine]

Sorry, if you have a problem with that again, look within.

[Emma]

I don't think anyone here is gonna have a problem with that.

[Christine]

I mean, maybe not here, but actually I do am. If there's really.

[Emma]

If there's a Nazi or Nazi sympathizer who listens to our show, you can just go right to hell.

[Christine]

Am I thinking surprised? Well, because sometimes we get comments where people are like, oh, my God, these girls are so funny. Until I heard xyz and I'm like, you are not listening very close.

[Emma]

Well, then, well, welcome. Thanks for finally tuning in after.

[Christine]

Can you hear me now? No.

[Emma]

I remember in the beginning someone being like, I really like the show, but I can't stand the gay one. Back when there was only one of us. And I went, well, I. You're going to hate the rest of it. You might as well stop listening now. I don't know what to tell you.

[Christine]

Gay only evolves from there.

[Emma]

Yeah, it only gets worse.

[Christine]

It only gets worse.

[Emma]

I only grow in power.

[Christine]

Right. Gay is just like the dipping a toe in, man. I'm only bisexual. I'm at the very little tippy edge of it now.

[Emma]

The full gambit is in session at all moments with us. So it is. How do we end this?

[Christine]

With a bedazzled gavel.

[Emma]

Do you have one quarter?

[Christine]

Adjourned.

[Emma]

I don't know how to clank. How do you. Is it a clank or a thud?

[Christine]

We'll think about. I have a fun fact I'm gonna tell you, and I'm telling you in yappy hour. Because the fun fact is how. Which I just learned how they made the law and order svu like boom boom and all that.

[Emma]

Oh, hell yeah. How they made the song.

[Christine]

So not the song like the actual melody, but those sounds in the background.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

You are literally not in a million years going to guess. You're not going to guess. It was on a podcast where you're supposed to figure out. It's called Lateral with Tom Scott. And you're supposed to. They. He has guests on and they ask like a question that's like you have to kind of laterally think to get the answer. And it's like usually a couple comedians trying to figure out, like, what the answer is. And the way that this blew my mind.

[Emma]

Okay. Hell yeah.

[Christine]

I want to know you in the yappy hour. So if anyone gives a shit, come join us.

[Emma]

I'll be there. I don't know if anyone else. I'll be there.

[Christine]

And it's contractually obligated to be there. So if you want to join, go to patreon.com and we can't wait to talk to you.

[Emma]

And for more scatterbrained but very valid views, tune in next week, I guess. Who knows what we'll talk then.

[Christine]

Very valid.

[Emma]

Very valid. Very frenetic, but very well intentioned also. For the. For the. For the good people out there.

[Christine]

Yeah, it's well intentioned.

[Emma]

And that's why we drink. Olivia loves a challenge. It's why she lifts heavy weights and likes complicated recipes.

[Christine]

But for booking her trip to Paris, Olivia chose the easy way.

[Emma]

With Expedia, she bundled her flight with a hotel to save more. Of course, she still climbed all 674 steps to the top of the Eiffel Tower. You were made to take the easy route.

[Christine]

We were made to easily package your trip expedia made to travel flight inclusive.

[Emma]

Packages are atoll protected.