E458 Rat Slaps and Sklorching Demons

Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: And That's Why We Drink
Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em (Emma) Schulz
Episode: E458 "Rat Slaps and Sklorching Demons"
Date: November 16, 2025

This episode kicks off with Christine and Em’s signature blend of conversational banter, true crime, and the paranormal. After a cozy catch-up on weather and travel, plus humorous sticker- and tchotchke-based bonding, they dive into two main stories: the haunted "Nameless Thing of Berkeley Square" in London, and the mysterious disappearance & identity saga of Bobby Dunbar. Along the way, the hosts share personal stories, challenge each other's sticker organization skills, reminisce about chaotic childhood card games, and call out the judgmental media of the early 1900s.

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Key Discussions & Insights

1. Catch-Up & Sticker Obsession

Timestamps:

• [03:07] - Podcast begins

• [12:40] - Sticker Book Discussion

• Christine and Em open the show discussing winter weather and travel plans, notably Christine’s upcoming trip to Hawaii and the incongruity of snowy pre-Thanksgiving weather. Christine shares parenting stories about her daughter Leona’s excitement for snow.

• Em describes a recent personal victory: organizing years' worth of travel stickers and pins, and the psychological relief of decluttering. The conversation becomes an ode to sticker collecting, pin organization (thanks to Disney pin binders), and the joy of physical memorabilia from podcast tours.

• Notable Quote: “If you need something to do on your plane, I’m telling you, buy a sticker book today – there was nothing more serene.” – Em ([15:21])

• After a deep dive into categorizing stickers (tour, nostalgia, spooky, fandom, miscellaneous), Christine and Em share tips and frustrations about storing odd-sized bumper stickers, as well as gift-giving mishaps.

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2. Childhood Card Game Trauma & Laughter

Timestamps:

• [24:39] - Deck of Cryptid Cards

• [25:02] - Card Game Memories

• Em’s new deck of cryptid-themed playing cards inspires a trip down memory lane as they discuss favorite (and least favorite) card games. Egyptian Rat Screw comes up, sparking a tangent on how sibling rivalries turn games violent.

• Notable Quote: “You’re supposed to slap the pile, not slap each other.” – Christine ([25:51])

• Em recalls being the bullied younger sibling and being “five starred in the face” during supposed games. The hosts exchange laughter about card games gone wrong, including ‘spoons’ and Kemps.

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3. Story #1: The Nameless Thing of Berkeley Square (London)

Timestamps:

• [34:21] - Story Begins
• [55:09] - Possible Origins Discussed

Summary:

• Address: 50 Berkeley Square, Mayfair, London.
• It’s a four-story townhouse built in 1740 with a reputation as “the most haunted house in London.”
• Early reports: In the 1820s, PM George Canning complained of nightmares and odd sounds; local legend quickly grew.
• Recurring sightings include:
  • The ghost of Adeline (a girl who fell from a window to escape abuse) seen clinging to a windowsill ([36:34]).
  • A boy locked in the attic who supposedly went insane.
  • Another girl killed by a servant, seen skipping in the halls or even on nearby streets.
• Physical phenomena: Loud, strange noises, phantom sights, poltergeist activity.

Famous Incidents:

• 1840: Death of Robert Warboys

  • A skeptical 20-year-old, dared into spending a night in the haunted room, is found dead, pistol in hand, face “contorted in horror.” He’d fired his gun at “something” unseen ([46:44]).
  • The event cemented the legend of the “nameless thing,” which supposedly scares victims to death.
  • Notable quote: “Sir Robert was wedged in the corner of the room, the still smoking pistol caught in the white-knuckled grip of his fear-contorted corpse.” – Christine, reading a historical source ([47:13])

• 1843: The Drunken Sailors

  • Two sailors, after a night of drinking, sneak in to sleep in the empty house. One, feeling uneasy, awakens to wet, dragging footsteps and a shadow. The “thing” attacks, ending in one sailor dead with a broken neck and horrified expression ([53:05]).
  • Some versions claim he was thrown out the window onto a fence post.

• Nature of the Entity:

  • Its form is never consistent—described as a shadow, a mist, an amorphous blob, or a nightmarish octopus- or squid-like creature with tentacles.

  • The card that inspired Em’s story depicts tentacles invading a Victorian scene, leading to a long discussion on possible cryptid origins.

  • Notable quote: “The walls of the house are found saturated with electric horror.” – quoted by Em from a source ([69:02])

• Modern Era:

  • Now the site of “Mags Brothers Antique Bookshop”; the top floor (former haunted room) is off-limits, even to staff, due to a police edict from the 1950s.
  • Employees still report dragging noises, smells, windows slamming shut, and period-dressed figures in the windows.
  • Notable quote: “The Nameless Thing: a vile, phantasmagorical killer from beyond the grave.” – contemporary newspaper ([72:04])

Tone & Highlights:
Em delivers the tale with delighted shudders and dark humor, riffing on old-timey adjectives (“unadulterated poppycock!” at [43:16]) and poking fun at Victorian ghost lore.

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4. Story #2: The Disappearance and Mystery of Bobby Dunbar

Timestamps:

• [76:26] - Story Begins
• [112:12] - Historical Analysis

Overview:

• In 1912, four-year-old Bobby Dunbar vanishes while his middle-class family vacations at a Louisiana lake. Initial searches (including dynamiting the lake and dissecting local alligators) fail to find him.

  • Notable moment: “They found remains, but only of a deer … then they put a straw hat in the water for hours to see if it would float.” ([81:05])

• Eight months later, a traveling piano tuner named William Walters is arrested in Mississippi for traveling with a boy who locals suspect is Bobby.

  • Walters claims the boy is “Bruce Anderson,” the illegitimate son of Julia Anderson, whom he'd taken by permission.
  • Julia, a working-class woman, comes to identify her son but, in a press stunt, isn’t sure—possibly overwhelmed and after a year of separation. She later confirms upon private time that he is her son.
  • Meanwhile, the wealthy Dunbars, after some ambiguous initial meetings, claim the boy is theirs—with press and community support.

• The media turns the mothers into archetypes: good churchgoing Lesie Dunbar vs. “plain,” “coarse country woman” Julia Anderson. Julia is publicly shamed for being unmarried, having multiple children, and lacking social standing ([93:21]).

  • Notable quote from an early 1900s news article: “Animals don’t forget, but this big, coarse country woman, several times a mother, she forgot.” – Em, reading in disbelief ([98:25])

• The identified “Bobby Dunbar” is raised by the Dunbars, has a family, and lives until 1966. Julia Anderson’s family maintains for generations that it was their Bruce taken from them.

Resolution (Modern Twist):

• In 2004, the Dunbar and Anderson descendants agree to DNA testing. Results show the boy raised as “Bobby Dunbar” is biologically unrelated to the Dunbar family.
• No test is done to match him to Julia Anderson’s line, but it’s widely presumed he was Bruce Anderson.
  • Notable quote: “The results proved definitively that the boy raised as Bobby Dunbar was not an iota biologically related to the Dunbar family.” – Christine ([107:40])
• Both families are left with generational grief and pride, and the case becomes a cautionary tale of class, media bias, and the power of collective belief.

Host Tone:
Christine and Em passionately critique the historic media’s cruelty, dwell on the poignancy of mistaken identity, and discuss how emotional need, environment, and class shaped the outcome.

• Notable quote, Christine: “That’s the most fucking dad answer … when there’s a mystery and you just get a vague little [response].” ([110:32])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote / Description | |-----------|------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 15:21 | Em | “If you need something to do on your plane, I’m telling you, buy a sticker book today.” | | 25:51 | Christine | "You’re supposed to slap the pile, not slap each other!" | | 43:16 | Em | “Unadulterated poppycock!” (mocking period language) | | 47:13 | Christine | “The still smoking pistol caught in the white-knuckled grip of his fear-contorted corpse…” | | 55:14 | Christine | “The Nameless Thing of Berkeley Square … tentacles coming through a frame.” | | 69:02 | Em | “The walls of the house are found saturated with electric horror.” | | 72:04 | Em | “A vile, phantasmagorical killer from beyond the grave.” | | 98:25 | News (read by Em) | “Animals don’t forget. But this big, coarse country woman, several times a mother, she forgot.” | | 107:40 | Christine | “The boy raised as Bobby Dunbar was not an iota biologically related to the Dunbar family.” | | 110:32 | Christine | “That’s the most fucking dad answer … when there’s a massive mystery …” |

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [03:07] – Podcast quick start; witty banter and show opener
• [12:40] – “Sticker Book” discussion (nostalgic and emotional highlight)
• [24:39] – Card game memories and cryptid cards segue
• [34:21] – Story 1: “The Nameless Thing of Berkeley Square” begins
• [46:44] – Robert Warboys’ death and birth of “the nameless thing”
• [55:09] – Is it a giant octopus? How folklore morphs
• [66:49] – House is now a haunted bookshop/top floor off-limits
• [76:26] – Story 2: “Bobby Dunbar” missing child saga starts
• [98:25] – Read-out of the cruel historical newspaper quote about Julia Anderson
• [107:40] – DNA test revelation: Dunbar and Anderson families
• [112:12] – Hosts discuss the story’s enduring mystery and lessons

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Overall Tone & Closing Thoughts

The hosts’ rapport is warm, teasing, and honest, seamlessly weaving personal anecdotes with historical research and social critique. The episode is both entertaining and thoughtful: listeners laugh at childhood chaos, commiserate over sticker hoarding, get chills from Victorian hauntings, and grapple with the enduring pain of a century-old missing child case. Both stories are rich in detail, emotion, and historical context—true to the hosts’ commitment to chilling ghost stories and terrifying true crime alike.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

• The episode is an engaging cocktail of storytelling, humor, vintage weirdness, social commentary, and real-life pathos.
• You’ll get haunted house chills, a cautionary media tale, and sticker-storage wisdom.
• Skip the ads (not summarized here); savor the chemistry, cackling, and compassion that keep Christine and Em’s fans tuning in week after week.

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Why do we drink?
Because sometimes the world is too haunted—and sometimes, just too damn strange.

Transcript

[Emma]

It is currently spooky season and I am seeing all sorts of yard decorations as I drive home at night and one of the most popular ones has been Pennywise out in the yard. My dog loves it. Just kidding. And if you love it, I gotta tell you, the director of it has a new horrifying story set in 1960s dairy Maine and is a story that explores the origins of Pennywise the Clown and get ready to go back to where it all began. Not only is the new HBO original series IT welcome to Dairy now streaming on HBO Max, but on the it welcome to Dairy Official Podcast, each episode will be discussed after it airs on HBO Max. HBO's it welcome to Derry podcast walks you back down the Streets of Derry 27 years before the Losers Club first formed and pulls you down into the sewers to dig in to the history, the lore and the horror of what makes Dairy Maine's most sinister suburb. And you'll hear from show creators plus cast and crew members as they talk talk about the making of the show. It is gonna be delicious everybody. I'm very, very excited. I actually have a friend who went to the screening tonight and let me know that it is just as incredible as I was anticipating. So please go check it out. I'm gonna be watching it right next to you. Stream new episodes of HBO's It welcome to Dairy Sundays on HBO Max and listen to the IT welcome to Dairy Official Podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts, it is post Halloween, which means it is officially winter and thus gift giving season.

[Christine]

Okay, well we have a good news for you. Uncommon Goods is a sponsor. Emma and I both were like oh heck yeah. We've used Uncommon Goods for like a decade.

[Emma]

Literally.

[Christine]

Really truly Uncommon Goods makes holiday shopping stress free and joyful with thousands of one of a kind gifts you can't find anywhere else.

[Emma]

Uncommon Goods looks for products that are high quality, unique and often handmade or made in the US and many are crafted by independent artists and small businesses, making every gift feel meaningful and truly one of a kind. Christina's not lying. I have used Uncommon Goods I think in my entire adult life. Yeah, any anytime I'm going Christmas shopping or I have to get something unique that you can't just get in a store. Uncommon Goods is one of the first like three tabs I open.

[Christine]

Yes, yes, always.

[Emma]

I love it.

[Christine]

I I just recently I was so excited they were sponsor. I went back on there and I was shopping and I bought like this bamboo wooden like foot massager with like all these little spikies and you like, oh, my God. I was like, this is looks like a dream, so I'm gonna give it to my mother, but I might steal it back and. Or buy another one. But yeah, it's so much fun. Random stuff. I mean, just go look. It's.

[Emma]

You just keep clicking page after page, and it's new, unique stuff. I think every Christmas that I've given people Christmas gifts, something has come from Uncommon Goods for sure.

[Christine]

Same.

[Emma]

Cross those names off your list before the rush, and to get 15% off your next gift, go to uncommong.

[Christine]

Goods.com drink that's uncommongoods.com drink for 15 off Uncommon Goods. We're all out of the ordinary. All right, let's try this. Ready, set, go. It worked.

[Emma]

It sure. It shut me up. That sure. Yeah.

[Christine]

The podcast has begun.

[Emma]

Finally. I've been wondering for years how it would finally begin.

[Christine]

We didn't know. And finally, it's time. The dress rehearsal is over. We're here for our first ever opening night, and that's why we drink. Welcome to the show. We are your hosts. I'm Christine.

[Emma]

I'm Em. And so far, that's all we got.

[Christine]

Pretty good so far. I think.

[Emma]

I think we should keep that in.

[Christine]

Nailed it.

[Emma]

Oh, my gosh. Well, to us, it is a Monday. I know everyone else is listening on Sunday, but technically, we're in the past. Although, if it's a Monday and this comes out on a Sunday, it sounds like we're in the future. Wow. Not to blow everyone's minds here, but, Christine, how are you doing on this Monday?

[Christine]

It's snowing.

[Emma]

No, it's not snowing so much.

[Christine]

And I'm like, what's happening? I woke up.

[Emma]

Are you telling the truth?

[Christine]

I'm telling the truth. It's snowing all day. I've been waiting to tell you about it. Please, one who cares.

[Emma]

Take a picture immediately.

[Christine]

I don't believe I haven't taken a sickle. Leona woke up and said, it's gonna snow today. And Blaze said, oh, we don't know. And then literally, they left that. We opened the door for her to go to school. Like, out the door, and she goes, I see a snowflake. And literally within minutes, like, she is the prophecy. I called her a little meteorologist.

[Emma]

I don't believe it. Oh, my God.

[Christine]

Snowing, man.

[Emma]

There's no way.

[Christine]

I'm glad you agree, because I feel like I'm the only one who's shocked. And everyone else is like, sure, it's snowing. It's November, and I'M like, it's. Something's wrong.

[Emma]

First of all, back the up, haters.

[Christine]

Relax. Okay.

[Emma]

Also, no, I think. I think because to us, like, a week ago was Halloween. So I'm like, why the hell is it snowing now?

[Christine]

Literally? Yes.

[Emma]

Like, it's supposed to just be cool and crisp. And also.

[Christine]

And on Halloween year, It was like, 70 degrees, you know, it's not like it's been cold.

[Emma]

That's so weird. Also, this sounds. Some therapist needs to analyze this, but honestly, snow feels too happy and pure for, like, how I just feel on a constant basis.

[Christine]

Doom and gloom. I know.

[Emma]

Yeah. I'm just like, why put some pep in my step?

[Christine]

Because it's just been kind of gloomy, and I'm like, that's fine. But when the snow comes, I'm like, ooh, oh, it's a little exciting.

[Emma]

It's almost like, oh, we're locked inside. But also.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

As a parent, is that as fun, though?

[Christine]

Well, it is when you're me and you say, I don't go outdoor, Mommy doesn't go outside.

[Emma]

I can't wait for Leona to say that a little too loud one day.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then. But literally, he comes back from dropping off and goes, she said, like, it started snowing, literally, as they left for school. And she apparently, the whole way there, talked about how they're going to build a snowman. And he was like, I don't know if there's going to be enough snow like that. But she's like, we're building a snowman. So I'm like, good luck with that.

[Emma]

You are. The snowman's going to be this big. Just.

[Christine]

Yeah, you know what? That's fine. You know, sizes and everything.

[Emma]

So you got three ice cubes in that freezer. I bet you can make it work. You just stick off each other.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

Well, I'm jealous. I immediately just filled with rage.

[Christine]

Oh, good. That's what I was trying to do with my quaint storytelling. I was familiar with unending rage, so you're welcome. But other than that, I'm flying to Hawaii tomorrow, so, you know, it's like, no big deal.

[Emma]

Okay. Weather whiplash. It's like, oh, it's snowing. Let's go to the beach.

[Christine]

I keep rereading. So my friend Alyssa is getting married to a woman whose family is from Hawaii. And so the wedding is in Hawaii, and we grew up in Cincinnati. So this is like an. When we were planning our. Talking about our future weddings when we were kids, Hawaii was usually not in the picture.

[Emma]

But you know, I'm like city hall.

[Christine]

Right, right, right. It was like, I mean, we live in Cincinnati. Nothing. We can't think past city limits.

[Emma]

Like a lot of just maybe like a big potter's field or something.

[Christine]

Yeah. Oh, you know what, There is a certain romance to that. But yeah. So I'm going to Hawaii tomorrow, but am I. Because of all these flight cancellations. I'm just sitting in my life right now going, let go, let go. I don't know, I can't control it. Just let it be. So I'm gonna wake up, my flight's at 6 in the morning, up at 3, or not sleep and be at 3 looking at my phone and seeing where I'm headed.

[Emma]

So. Okay, lots of questions. So you're. How long of a flight is it from Cincinnati?

[Christine]

It's like 17 hours. And I'm so glad you asked. I.

[Emma]

It's like an international flight.

[Christine]

It's really. I mean I fly to lax, I have a fucking five hour layover. Speaking of, I can like maybe go like see Hank real quick and come.

[Emma]

Back and then you're welcome to if you want.

[Christine]

I mean, imagine I just show up and then I have like another six hour flight from LA to Hawaii. I mean, it's crazy. That is far away.

[Emma]

I mean there's a reason a lot of people on the east coast don't go to Hawaii. I mean our big thing is, is like the Bahamas, like, or like Florida, you know, but no Cancun, like, you.

[Christine]

Know, like little Mexico.

[Emma]

I don't know why in it never occurred to me, but Hawaii is a, is a much more popular tourist destination for people on the west coast. Which like makes sense. Yeah, I've told, I've told a few people like, oh my 50 states and I, I have to get to Hawaii eventually. And every person I've talked to that's a, that was like a local and grew up in la. They're all like, oh yeah, I've been a bunch of times. And I'm like, was that just the place? Was that your like outer Banks or something?

[Christine]

I feel like in my school in Ohio everyone went to Hawaii. I think it just trendy for a while.

[Emma]

Like really?

[Christine]

Maybe flights were cheap or something. I don't know because my mom took us there and we definitely never did. I mean, I've never been to Mexico. As I say, oh, we love Cancun. I've never even been there. So I'm like, I don't. That was just like our one like kind of luxury beach vacation was Hawaii, but that I remember taking like a full day to get there.

[Emma]

I mean, that's like.

[Christine]

And then the time difference is like nine hours. Okay, it's not nine hours. It's.

[Emma]

It's gonna feel like it.

[Christine]

It's a lot of hours. Okay.

[Emma]

And are you going? It's Leona coming?

[Christine]

No, Leona was kindly not invited, which I was like, good choice. Yeah. For this, like a little small. It's a really small wedding and there's a rum safari.

[Emma]

Oh, well, there you go. I see where you're going. 17 hours.

[Christine]

Listen, it's worth it. It's worth it. So it'll be fun. It'll be wonderful to see one of my oldest friends marry the love of her life. A gay wedding I've been to. This is my second gay wedding of the month. Or of the. Yeah, of the. And you know, I'm loving this lifestyle for myself as being at gay weddings. It's just so much fun. Perfect.

[Emma]

Well, I. And I am worried what's gonna happen with all what's going on with the flights these days, but also the weather now that it's snow.

[Christine]

I know. And then Chicago apparently is like, everything's grinding to a halt because of the snow. So, you know, maybe it'll be me and my cat and my heating pad. Maybe it'll be me on a big old jet to the beach. We'll see.

[Emma]

Okay, well, are you in the wedding?

[Christine]

So it's not really. It's such a small wedding. They only invited like a couple people. So it's sort of like a very intimate family thing. So I feel like I'm not in the wedding, but she did ask me to help get her ready and like for the first looks. And I was like, that feels important. So I'm gonna just roll with it.

[Emma]

Yeah. Yeah, totally. Well, that sounds fun. Yeah, it'll be good.

[Christine]

It'll be good. But it feels like so surreal, you.

[Emma]

Know, And I don't envy right now. Yeah, that sounds terrible.

[Christine]

It's gonna be a long day. But that's okay.

[Emma]

You know, living where I live to get home, it's usually door to door, like an eight or nine hour excursion. And for some reason I have gotten so used to an eight hour travel. But make it ten.

[Christine]

Oh, even add an hour or two. Yeah.

[Emma]

All of a sudden I'm like, now that's undoable.

[Christine]

Especially when you're like in the context of travel. Right. I mean, you now all these flights getting. I mean, this is probably old news now, but currently the government Is semi still shut down? Very much still shut down, I guess. And the flights are getting canceled and delayed and people are losing it, and I don't blame them. Like, talk about high stress situations. Expensive. They're just, like, strangers everywhere. You're in, like, the mo. Like, time crunch. I mean, it's just miserable.

[Emma]

Miserable, buddy. Well, again, don't envy you, but I do envy whatever Leona's gonna get up to, because I know that shit's gonna be fun.

[Christine]

She's gonna have a really good time. I don't know what's up with. But, you know, there's so many potter's fields out here, she could really get up to anything.

[Emma]

Give her a shovel in a couple days and she'll.

[Christine]

Yeah, I'll give her your podcast episode about graveyard games, and she'll be set for, like, the whole week.

[Emma]

Oh, well, I'm very excited about that.

[Christine]

Well, yeah. Yeah.

[Emma]

Is there a reason why you drink outside of that, or is that the reason why you.

[Christine]

I think that's all of it. It's. It's just a big fell swoop of, like. Ah.

[Emma]

Are you drinking anything fun today?

[Christine]

You know, I'm really not. I only brought my Stanley. I was going to get a D Pep, and then I forgot, and I think it's too late for caffeine anyway, so. Because I have terrible insomnia. So I got my scrappy water. What about you?

[Emma]

Wait, show me that. Okay, so. That's so funny. I. That's so funny. I mean, the sticker is also funny. You're so funny, Christine. But hang on, just let me. Hang on, hang on. Let me finish the sentence. Let me figure out how to do it. Okay, Ready for the whole thought I've built it in my head now.

[Christine]

Go.

[Emma]

I recently, finally bought a sticker book. And from all of our travels, I had. When I tell you, whatever amount of stickers you think I had, quadruple it.

[Christine]

Okay?

[Emma]

I don't care if you think the number was a thousand stickers, Okay? I spent the day yesterday. I had a lot of things I needed to do, and instead I sat with my sticker book, and I finally organized all of the stickers that I have ever collected. Ever, ever, ever.

[Christine]

Whoa.

[Emma]

And one of them was that exact sticker. Raccoon instead of a squirrel.

[Christine]

I don't even remember where I got this, but I remember I got two. One to give you because we had always talked about how we're scrappy. I got one to give you and one to give me. And then I just for the Other day, looked at my water bottles and went, wait, I have one on each water bottle. So I clearly never gave them to you.

[Emma]

I just say maybe the raccoon one was from you, but I think I.

[Christine]

Used both of them instead of giving one to you. But initially it was supposed to go to you.

[Emma]

Well, anyway, one of the reasons I drink is because I finally. I don't think. Unless you are a mental tumbleweed of chaos like the two of us are, some people might not understand. I know. You do. How overwhelming isn't the word. Maybe you know the word. But, like. But the. Let's. Every time we've gone on a trip, which add up every time we've been on tour, every time I've done my own trips, I'm trying to do my 50 states. Every time I go see my grandma, every time I go home, I'm always buying tchotchkes. And that includes stickers and pins. And every single one of them from different trips have been sitting in different ziplocs or different paper bags or at the bottom of a backpack.

[Christine]

Additional note, we often also give one another stickers, so that also adds to it. Excuse. We're like, oh, Emma would like this. Eva would like this. And then we attained more stickers that way.

[Emma]

Yes. And. And they're. But there's, like, the way that they're scattered through the. Through the house.

[Christine]

Well, it's, like, in. It's, like, intolerable. Really. It's intolerable.

[Emma]

I mean, I've been waiting. I've been collecting stickers since we. For very first time we went on tour was 2018, and started looking at all of them. Like, I had to dig through every little nook and cranny of my house. We have a storage unit. We have. I mean, every. I mean, the number of stickers and pins was, like, first of all, breathtaking in a different way, where I need to, like, readjust my.

[Christine]

Right, like, mentally, you need to do some thinking. Yeah.

[Emma]

But. But to have them all consolidated in one clean, organized box, like, there's no words. There's no words for, like, that clarity.

[Christine]

That actually feels so uplifting to me that I'm gonna hold on to this feeling for the rest of the day. I think I'm gonna try to.

[Emma]

If you need something to do on your plane, I'm telling you, buy a sticker book today and.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Emma]

And spend your it. There was nothing more serene.

[Christine]

Yeah. Okay.

[Emma]

It was incredible.

[Christine]

Eva got me a sticker book, but it wasn't enough room. Like, I put a bunch of stickers in it, but it's still not enough room, so I'm gonna have to get another.

[Emma]

I have a second one coming. Oh, see?

[Christine]

Okay, so here's my question for your 4,000 stickers that I have that you have. When you were going through them, were there any that you were like, I'm not feeling these, or did you, like, keep every single one?

[Emma]

No, I. I decluttered my stickers as well.

[Christine]

Okay. Because I've been doing that too. Because some of them, I'm like, this does not spark joy. I don't even know where this is from. Okay, okay, that makes sense. And then also, when you were organizing them, did you, like, organize them in a particular way, or was it, like, by just how they look? The shape? Was it, like the city? Was it, like, the year that you attained it? Like, what's the method to your back?

[Emma]

Well, it was too overwhelming, so I made it much more general than I originally.

[Christine]

2018. I mean, how do you even remember what was first and last?

[Emma]

So that was my problem with my pin collection because I wouldn't just get pins from, like. I wouldn't just say, like, St. Louis, Missouri, on it. You know, it would say, I see. It would be like a. Like a rat that says scrappy on it, and I'm like, where the did I get this? So I. Anything that's specific. And I did this for pins and pins and stickers. So I have a pin collection now.

[Christine]

How do you organ? Okay, we'll get to that. But how do you organize? Depends also, I need to know that later.

[Emma]

Okay, I. I followed. I'm not a Disney adult, but they got a few things right out there, and they love their. Their pin trading, and so they literally make pin binders.

[Christine]

Oh, it's in binders. Okay, so they're not on display. It's, like, in binders.

[Emma]

Yeah. And they're all. And also, I bought match. I bought, like, 200 pinbacks. So that way they would all have different types of pinbacks, and some of them I can't stand. So I just put them all. I gave them all brand new pinned backs.

[Christine]

Wow.

[Emma]

I know. I feel so, like, no one else in the world would care except you. So I'm glad I'm saying this, but no. So I. I divided the stickers into. And the main. The main five were. If I got it on tour, like, obviously got it on tour. So there were some that said, like. Like the Gateway Arch. I'm just saying.

[Christine]

Right, right.

[Emma]

Or Kansas City or whatever. Where's the arch? St. Louis. So if it was like, obviously a location. Right. I put that as like the tour section. And then I had a nostalgia section because I get a bunch of like 90s retro stickers. So I got nostalgia. I got. I put together a spooky section because, like, a lot of my pens and stickers were like a Ouija board or a ghost.

[Christine]

Sure.

[Emma]

So it Spooky Nostalgia tour. I did one that was just my fandom. So there's like a whole section that's just like Back to the Future and Marvel and Pokemon.

[Christine]

Oh, that's good.

[Emma]

And then I have another section that was just kind of like miscellaneous, just like, just a catch all, which ended up being just about the same size as the other sections.

[Christine]

Interesting.

[Emma]

I really wanted it to be more like, oh, I got all of these in Portland. I got all of these. There was no way.

[Christine]

That's part of buying. This is like. You just are like, this is easy thing to put in my backpack. Forget about for a while.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

For years. Yeah. That's part of the joy of the sticker is like, oh, there's really not much to it. There's not much context.

[Emma]

My. And you think like, oh, it's so little. It's like, doesn't even take up space. But when you have as many as I do, it certainly takes up space.

[Christine]

Oh, it takes up a lot of psychological space, I'll tell you that much.

[Emma]

Certainly the only thing I can't figure out which, if you have an idea, please leave it in the comments or something. But I, along the way have collected quite, quite a number of bumper stickers.

[Christine]

Oh, yes, me too.

[Emma]

And so they're too big to fit in sticker books.

[Christine]

Right.

[Emma]

So I don't know where to put them, But I'm not gonna put them on my car either.

[Christine]

Yeah, right. What if you got the sticker or. Sorry, the binders that have like the sleeves, like plastic sleeves, like a tall binder or something. That's like. I could. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

[Emma]

That's the only thing that doesn't fit in the binders. It's very frustrating.

[Christine]

But other than, I guess bumper stickers are different sizes, which is annoying too.

[Emma]

Yeah. There's one, there's two in particular that are like.

[Christine]

Speaking of. I know I've already shown you this, but it was a few weeks ago, I think on the floor right now, because that's what my life is like. Here's a bummer sticker I got you recently. Shut up. I've shown you this Already. But it's been a while. Here I go in my big gay car. My.

[Emma]

Wait, I want that. I love it.

[Christine]

I know.

[Emma]

I got it for you.

[Christine]

And I said, I'll mail it to you. And that was, like, two months ago. So I will mail it to you eventually. And you put it in your binder.

[Emma]

That's so fun. Well, thank you. I love that. And that one was so, you know, the only bumper sticker.

[Christine]

And then that's.

[Emma]

That's. Well, the only other bumper sticker that I've ever actually put on my car is the one you got me. But that's because it was a magnet. Is the Waffle House one.

[Christine]

Oh, it's a magnet. That's right. I feel like that's. That's sometimes the way to go.

[Emma]

Yeah. Anyway, so perfect segue to goo with your little squirrely scrappy sticker, because that was going to be the reason I drank Rose. Like, damn. Like, I. I feel probably how you felt when you were cleaning out your upstairs. How is the update on that, by the way? Are you all clean up here?

[Christine]

I mean, it's really cluttered, so I'm like, it's still a mess, but, like, pretty much everything here is stuff I'm, like, keeping and want to organize. So it's at least, like, not all the junk that I've been trying to get rid of for years. I just had, like, a attachment problem. I, like, kept too much stuff, and it was like, stuff that just was not necessary. So I feel a lot better. I've, like, cleansed it out of stuff I don't need anymore.

[Emma]

I. I always. I hate that middle ground where, like, it's cleaner than it was. And now I can't get over that hill to finish it.

[Christine]

Ye. It feels like, oh, phew, I got a lot done. And then you sit on this for eternity.

[Emma]

Like, and then it slowly grows again. It's so.

[Christine]

Yeah. Yes. And then it grows.

[Emma]

I know.

[Christine]

So I feel like I'm making progress. And then like, one step back, two step, four, you know, the usual. But I think that's life.

[Emma]

Proud of you.

[Christine]

Thank you. And I'm proud of you and your stickers, because that is a feat. I tell you.

[Emma]

Next time I. We record and I'm not in this stupid hotel room.

[Christine]

I.

[Emma]

We can do that for intermission. I'll show you my sticker book.

[Christine]

That would be fun. I would love that. Feels like the. I mean, it is like, show and tell. Bring your. It is school.

[Emma]

It is. Well, no. So I'm very excited and My, my. To answer your question quickly, I got a pin binder which holds, like, 400 pins, which, luckily, I don't have 400. It at least gives room to build if I, you know, as, like, bad.

[Christine]

About, like, buying a pin or like, if you're gifted a pin. I'm always like, I don't want to break this or lose it. You know, if I put it on my backpack, it'll fall off. So. Yeah, I feel like that's a nice, like, in between.

[Emma]

Yeah, yeah. I'm very. The. The goal is to never have to need another pin binder ever again.

[Christine]

Right.

[Emma]

And so. Yeah, but I. I'm very excited about that, and that's probably what I'm gonna do later tonight when I should also be productive and I won't be, so.

[Christine]

Hey, that sounds productive to me. Okay. I don't know. I mean, it was lovely.

[Emma]

A little cup of tea, a little law and order.

[Christine]

I mean, Leon and I are probably going to be building snowmen out of ice cubes. So I guess if we are being productive, so am I.

[Emma]

No, you are being much more productive by entertaining a child. I am the child.

[Christine]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair enough.

[Emma]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, Christine, I have a story for you and I. Not to, like, promote more tchotchkes, but on my recent trip to Delaware, where I went with my mom, I told you about that.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. Wait, remind. Yes, yes, yes. The Delaware trip.

[Emma]

Yes.

[Christine]

Sorry. My brain is like, you know when, like, an engine sputters? That's sort of how it feels like.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Internally.

[Emma]

Yeah. I absolutely understand. You said, you know what it's like to, like, have a clear brain. No, I know you.

[Christine]

You and your sticker book, for. For a brief window of time, probably have that.

[Emma]

But when I look Truly, I get sucked into a world. I look at my stickers, I'm like, I feel so seen. But then all of a sudden, I realize that anyone else in the world would be like, okay, you're. You need to get a new hobby. Yeah.

[Christine]

I feel like it's. Someday are going to be like, put it in the garage sale. And you're gonna be like, oh, my God, Truly.

[Emma]

At least it's so stupid, because I've officially hit that age where I'm like, let me hang with my sticker book. And I'm like, what the hell? Like, what happened to all the house parties and laws I used to break?

[Christine]

Anyway, you know him and they're wild child today.

[Emma]

If a cop came up to me, they'd be like, well, we know what you were up to in 2008. And I'm like, well, that ain't me anymore. Here's my sticker book. You want to take a look?

[Christine]

I've changed. I've left that life behind. I've left that life.

[Emma]

I've. I'm reformed.

[Christine]

I never left it or changed it, But I'm glad you're here with me now.

[Emma]

I still want it. Just nobody else wants to do it with me. And it's sad or alone. That's really where we are. So the sticker book is. Is my. My new. My new partner in crime, I suppose. Okay, here we go. Yeah. So instead of, you know, big, wild house parties and. And hanging out till the wee hours because everyone got married and have kids, and I'm just trying to find hobbies now, I decided that my hobby is gonna go see all 50 states. I went to Delaware with my mom and I. We went to a bookshop, and I found this little deck of cards, which I know you and I are also, like, active, not card collectors, but we. We pick up quite a lot of.

[Christine]

We love a good deck of playing cards for people who never play cards.

[Emma]

Not a one time. And if someone asked me to play cards, I'd go, get out of my house.

[Christine]

I know. I literally ask people, including M, all the time. I'm like, does someone want to play war? And my brother's like, I don't want to play war. Like, get away from me.

[Emma]

I love war.

[Christine]

Finally, I found the right person. I keep asking my brother. He's like, why don't we play like this? Like, bridge? And I'm like, get the. Away from me. I want to play war with him.

[Emma]

Did you ever. I remember there being a game. It's. There has to be a different name now.

[Christine]

Egyptian ratscrew. Oh, yeah, That's a classic. Or I think it was also called.

[Emma]

I. I don't remember what I have.

[Christine]

I have, you know, who's getting married. She taught it to me, and she called it Peaches, I think.

[Emma]

Oh, that's like.

[Christine]

Everyone came up with a fake name to, like, teach it to their younger cousins or whatever, because it was called Egyptian rat Screw.

[Emma]

Yeah. I don't know if this is how it's actually played, but there was a lot of hitting each other in the face.

[Christine]

Oh, I don't recall that.

[Emma]

Okay. My stepsisters were just really bullied, my friend. I was the little step sibling, and my stepsisters were like, oh, yeah, there's this really fun game, and every time you lose around we get to hit you in the face.

[Christine]

Oh my God. No wonder you don't like playing games. It's all finally making sense, dude.

[Emma]

Anyway, I would love.

[Christine]

You're supposed to slap the pile, not slap each other. I'm like, why is. There's definitely slapping.

[Emma]

No, I would get five starred in the face.

[Christine]

That's not cool, dude. Oh my God. Can I please tell you the other names of this thing? Yeah, I mean, of course. Egyptian Rat Screw is certainly not PC by any stretch of the imagination. Sometimes abbreviated as. According to Wikipedia as ers. Oh, that's my initials. Holy. You're right.

[Emma]

So for now it's just called the M. Schultz game.

[Christine]

I love that. Also known as Egyptian War Bloody Stump Slap. I mean, Jesus, this is like. Yeah, you were. You were getting beat up.

[Emma]

What was your favorite card game?

[Christine]

That one? No, I loved Egypt. Or do you remember it had a weird name. And again, I don't know if this was even the name or if this was just something people called it, but I think they call it Kemps or something like that.

[Emma]

Never heard of that.

[Christine]

Camps. Kempers. Kemps. It's like where you have a secret code with another person. Like you get a partner and you don't know who the partner is or whatever and you have like a secret tell.

[Emma]

Got it.

[Christine]

Maybe that's not what it's called, but it was fun and it was kind of. We played it sometimes at school and it would be like a good group game where you have. You have to like make a secret, like a, like a raise your eyebrows or. And then if you caught the other person doing their tell, you know. Oh yeah, Camps, it was called teams of two. Try to secretly get four cards of the same rank to score a point and they agree on a secret non verbal sign and then swap cards. It's. It's fun. Anyway, that was one of my favorites too.

[Emma]

But I always wanted to learn how to play spoons, but I was always too scared.

[Christine]

I love spoon. It's so easy.

[Emma]

Is it?

[Christine]

I have the version with dolphins instead of spoons. We would put a bunch of dolphins in the middle and you'd grab the dolphin but they squeak. So you'd have to be like really, like, you'd have to either be really strategic, like quiet about it and slide it back so that like, like.

[Emma]

Oh, people aren't supposed to know that you get them.

[Christine]

Yeah, well, you can't. So it's like as soon as one person grabs one, everyone goes for it and the last one who doesn't, it's Sort of like musical chairs where like one person. There's one fewer spoon than the group. So basically, as soon as somebody has four of the same cards, they take one from the middle. And then as soon as everyone notices that. So you can either grab it and then everyone kind of goes free for all, or you can be really sneaky and just kind of pull it aside and then keep playing and wait for people to notice, you know?

[Emma]

Gotcha. And it felt like to ask other 12 year olds how to play spoons felt like asking a grown man during a game how football goes.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah.

[Emma]

I was just like, I don't. I'm not gonna ask.

[Christine]

No, I would love to teach you because it really is so easy. It's just like you pass cards around and try to make four of a kind.

[Emma]

Oh, okay, cool.

[Christine]

And then like once you do, you grab the spoon. And then I. I did love playing with like the grown ups because I would always like, be really sneaky about grabbing the spoon, but look like I was really focused. It's just really fun. I don't know. Clearly. I like the games where we're doing like secret surveillance.

[Emma]

Well, for two people who really hate card games or.

[Christine]

Anyway, yeah, let's go back to your story.

[Emma]

Anyway, I got new. I got cards while I was in Delaware. It's all up because I couldn't. I got excited about unwrapping it, that I ripped like half the paper off. But this is a Cryptids deck. Have you seen this before?

[Christine]

Oh, no.

[Emma]

Okay, so I'm gonna show you the inside of them. I promise there's a reason for this.

[Christine]

Oh, I believe you.

[Emma]

And they all. Not only are they all Cryptids, but each of the cards looks like an already real life existing magazine cover, but edited to have the Cryptid as like the COVID model.

[Christine]

Oh, that's clever.

[Emma]

This is like Cryptid Health and it's like the.

[Christine]

The Lizard man instead of Men's Health. Oh, that's.

[Emma]

And then they had like this one.

[Christine]

Like, I mean, magazine. Oh, my God, this is so co.

[Emma]

So I thought it was super cool and that was like a comic book. And then they actually have a Nickelodeon magazine one, which I thought was cool.

[Christine]

Now that I want to see that. Is that like a slime monster or something?

[Emma]

You know, it should have been. I don't know. I. I was just kind of scrolling through real quick because I. I bought it truly. Not because I thought I'd play cards, but for inspiration for stories. So. So this was the Nickelodeon one. This is the Dingbat Dingbat Okay.

[Christine]

That's good though. That feels very Nickelodeon.

[Emma]

Anyway, so I. I got these. Truly thinking, oh, in case I'm ever stumped and need some, like, inspiration, I will. I'll do that. So that is what ended up happening. I was looking through the cards and I came across. Do you want to guess which number and. And suit this. This card is that I.

[Christine]

Yes. Think about it.

[Emma]

Okay.

[Christine]

Five of diamonds.

[Emma]

Dude. So close. Six of hearts.

[Christine]

Damn. It's not close, but sort of close.

[Emma]

Right color, Right color. So anyway, this is. I went with the six of hearts. And this is the. I'm gonna show you the COVID halfway through the story because I don't want to give away how it looks yet.

[Christine]

I love this. Okay. But you know, please cover the dingbat someday because I'm really all about that too.

[Emma]

I would love to. That would be great. And, and while I do it, by the way, I will eat your. The secret recipe to slime or something.

[Christine]

Don't eat it. Have you been eating it?

[Emma]

I mean, no, I haven't. I've never made it before. So maybe that'll be our intermission. That time it's like.

[Christine]

Okay, we can do like. Yeah, like a little demonstration some.

[Emma]

We'll do well without telling anyone what the secret is because I'm. I'm sort of secrecy. But I will make it and show everyone what it looks like and we can all judge it.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

Okay. Anyway, sorry everybody. Who hates this?

[Christine]

I'm not sorry. Hello, Fresh. I've missed it, folks. I know you have too. Hellofresh is the number one meal kit in America, making home cooking easier with chef crafted recipes and fresh ingredients delivered straight to your door. But this fall, guess what? They're serving up even more to love. It's not the hellofresh you remember. Not the same.

[Emma]

HelloFresh has doubled their menu, so now you can choose from 100 options each week, including new seasonal dishes and recipes from around the world. And you can dig into bigger portions. Say less Hellofresh.

[Christine]

You can even get steak and seafood recipes delivered every week for no extra cost. Now with three times the seafood options. You know I love a good salmon savor this season with hearty fall recipes like classic Beef Chili Honey glazed Pork tenderloin. Oy vey. They have a lot of good food.

[Emma]

The best way to cook just got better. Go to hellofresh.com drink10fm now to get 10 free meals and a free breakfast for life.

[Christine]

One per box with active subscription free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan that's hellofresh.com Drink10FM to get 10 free meals and free breakfast for life. One time I got Storyworth from my mom and she told me she wrote a story in there about how when she was a kid they had a pet crow named Simon.

[Emma]

They say that story worth is is meant to be a gift to them, but really it's a gift to us because now, seriously, all of a sudden, this knowledge is imparted on us that for some reason our parents did not pass along. So this is for Simon. We are now working with Storyworth, which is such a great company. I have always loved the idea of demanding information from my family.

[Christine]

All your loved one needs to do is respond to an email that Storyworth sends every week. Now you can record it over the phone so you don't have to type it out. So it's so easy. It's not even like you don't need to be tech savvy. So it' for sending to people in your family who might not be into the whole tech world. And then after a year, Storyworth compiles all these stories and photos into a beautiful keepsake hardcover book. Photos are printed in vibrant color. It's a treasure for us and our loved ones and it's just really cool. You can like pass it down for generations.

[Emma]

And they've printed over a million books and preserved 35 million family stories since their founding 13 years ago. And they have over 48,000 five star reviews on Trustpilot.

[Christine]

And I love that they're still innovating. This year they added a bunch of new features to make storytelling even easier with personalized questions. Magic editor. Meanwhile, their magic layout and new book designs make finished books look even more beautiful.

[Emma]

Give your loved ones a unique keepsake you'll all cherish for yours. Storyworth memoirs. And right now, save $10 or more during their holiday sale when you go.

[Christine]

To storyworth.com drink that's storyworth.com drink to save $10 or more on your order.

[Emma]

So here is my story for today. This is the nameless thing of Berkeley Square.

[Christine]

What?

[Emma]

And it's in London. And the address of this place was 50 Berkeley Square, which I think it does still exist. It does still exist. It was built in 1740 and it was a four story townhouse in London in a fancy area called Mayfair.

[Christine]

Oh yes.

[Emma]

Which I guess is like their Upper west side. Fun fact. Winston Churchill also lived in this neighborhood. He lived two doors down on. So I like to imagine that he was just like sitting next to a Haunted house.

[Christine]

The nameless thing. Yeah, he was next to the nameless thing.

[Emma]

Maybe he was the nameless thing. I mean, and reporters were like, winston Churchill is in this house. What's going on?

[Christine]

No comment.

[Emma]

So, okay, it was a house built in 1740 in fancy pants London. And un. We're unsure of the first few residents that lived there, but we do know in the 1820s, one of the first people to live there was a. The Prime Minister at the time, Prime Minister Canning. He worked under King George iv. Fun fact. And when he lived there, he was reporting odd sounds throughout the house, both above him and in the basement. He also had like constant nightmares that were out of character for him. So that was back in the 1820s. Oh, I can't account for like the first few decades before that, but at least since the 1800s we've been having been some things reported by people. Many other people after him have moved in. Like, I could not keep up with the amount of people who've lived in this place. But I'm, I, I didn't really hear anything outside of Prime Minister Canning's reports. I guess because he was the Prime Minister, so his story was more interesting than others. I don't know if anyone else had experiences or to what degree, but something must have been going on because over time, both the newspapers and the town in general were all aware that this house had ghosts. They.

[Christine]

Okay. Oh, wow. So this is like since day one or since the early days?

[Emma]

Yeah, since the early days, people knew that this was haunted. And I don't know where those stories come from, just that enough people lived there and had experiences that this was known as a haunted house.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Emma]

And one of the people who is said to have died here. Again, this is all conjecture. But. But we don't care about that. For me to sound spooky, please, conjecture. Can Bletcher say yes? 100. Okay, so one of the main, one of the first ghosts here at least was this girl named Adeline. She apparently died falling from a window on the top floor. Extra sad. Her uncle was abusing her.

[Christine]

Oh, no.

[Emma]

And so I guess she tried to escape through the attic window, lost her footing, fell.

[Christine]

Jesus. Oh my God.

[Emma]

Okay, now allegedly people see a girl hanging from the window, screaming for help, and sometimes they even see her losing her grip and vanishing before she hits the ground.

[Christine]

Well, that's a traumatic thing to witness.

[Emma]

I know, I know. Yikes. They don't tell you about that on Zillow? Nope. One newspaper actually was quoted saying, since then. So I guess since she died. More than 50 respectable people have reported seeing Adeline clinging to the windowsill. More than 50? That's like a pretty. That would. I'm surprised Zach Baggins hasn't gone there.

[Christine]

That's a lot. 50 people seeing someone. Like over 50 different accounts of people seeing a little girl hanging and then disappearing as she fall. Yeah, that's a lot to me.

[Emma]

That's a lot of people. And I wonder. And that was an old timey newspaper that wasn't recently. So that, that would, you would think mean that a lot more since then have seen her.

[Christine]

Fair enough.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

Another ghost there is a boy who in another, I don't know, bad situation, he ends up getting locked in the attic by his parents and he was fed food through a hole in the door. And the isolation over time made him go insane. Is the story.

[Christine]

Oh my God.

[Emma]

We don't know how the child. That's, that's. These are all stories that, that people talk about, but I don't know how true any of them are, so I'm just gonna.

[Christine]

But it was a child though, in the story.

[Emma]

But. And yeah, in the story it was.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Emma]

A little boy.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Emma]

Another girl or another ghost here that they say happened to live there at some point was a girl who was killed by one of the servants in the house when she lived there. And now people say that they see her skipping down the halls and actually even on the streets nearby, which I. It always blows my mind when the ghosts don't stay in the house.

[Christine]

Yeah. And they can kind of just explore.

[Emma]

Yeah. The only other time I've really heard about that is there was somewhere in Dallas, Fort Worth where there's the cowboy. Used to be like a, like a brothel and there's a cowboy named like Cowboy Jake or something, and he's known to like go window shopping in town. Yeah.

[Christine]

I feel that I remember Cowboy Jake because it definitely struck something. A chord in my heart just now.

[Emma]

Yeah. I, I thought all of a sudden you'd hear like, romantic trolley.

[Christine]

I did. That's what came into mind. Came straight to mine.

[Emma]

So Cowboy Jake and Judy Garland are the same person. Yeah, but no, I think that's the only other one that comes writes a mind of like, oh, a ghost that haunts the house and leaves the house and haunts other places too.

[Christine]

Yeah. I mean, that's pretty cool, honestly.

[Emma]

Imagine if you're like, just put out a really nice window display and all of a sudden you see Cowboy Jake admiring it. I'd be so honored.

[Christine]

I would. Or what if he was like, yeah, yeah, that would make me sad.

[Emma]

If he just kept moving, I'd be like, are you kidding me, Jake?

[Christine]

How dare you.

[Emma]

Someone should make a window display of Cowboy Jake and see if it brings him over.

[Christine]

I'm sure he would like a western display. Yeah.

[Emma]

Anyway, so those are three of the like random ghosts we have no real explanation for. But those stories have kind of locked themselves into place. Okay, so someone fell from the window. Someone was locked in the attic. Another girl was killed by a servant. And there were also times when neighbors throughout the years, especially in the 1800s, I think. Well, on one article I was thinking of is in the 1840s, there were so many weird noises coming out of this house that the neighbors all rallied together to go investigate it when it was abandoned. Because they were like, what the is going on in here? Apparently they didn't, they did not find anything. But other people think that these are more of the skeptics. They're like, oh, it was never haunted. This was like maybe some sort of criminal front. And maybe they used the ghost story as like a cover so that way they could make a bunch of sounds at night and nobody would be brave enough to go check, you know?

[Christine]

Okay. Okay. Yeah, I guess it's a. Okay cover. I don't know.

[Emma]

I don't know. But either way, even the skeptics are admitting that this place makes some weird fucking sounds at night. So, see, Speaking of the 1840s, this is 20 years after Prime Minister Canning lived there and was making reports. Twenty years later there in 1840, the first real paranormal account happens in this house. And it's a 20 year old. His name is Robert War Boys, which feels. Feels like the most 40s name I could think of.

[Christine]

War Boys.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Feels like a weird video game, really.

[Emma]

I think of it as like one of those old timey last names that no one has anymore.

[Christine]

How do you spell that?

[Emma]

Like War and Boys.

[Christine]

It sounds to me like a weird. Like.

[Emma]

I can see it. I know what you're saying, but in my. I think because I. In my head I think like Daddy Warbucks from Annie.

[Christine]

Oh, okay. War Boys were. Yeah, okay, I can see that. Yeah, yeah.

[Emma]

And I just think it's like. Oh, it sounds like such a. Yeah, yeah. Like a rough and tumble kind of guy.

[Christine]

I got you. I'll allow it.

[Emma]

It'd be real silly if he was the daintiest little feminine man in the world in his last kind of. Poor boys.

[Christine]

I would love that because like War Boys, you know, it feels it's not like War Men. It's like War Boys. Let's go, girls.

[Emma]

I like to think there's like a, like a. A queer comic book called War Boys. And it's.

[Christine]

I love that. Seriously. I think that's actually perfect. Perfect match.

[Emma]

Perfect. Well, Robert War boys, he. It's 1840 again. He is 20 years old. He goes to the bar and he hears about this haunted house in town. I don't know if he's from the area, it sounds like he's not. And he's just passing through, right? And they're like, oh, did you see that haunted house? Blah, blah. I hear this happens there and this happens there and this happens there. He calls bullshit to all the people in the bar talking about it. He actually calls it unadulterated poppycock, which is. Can you imagine?

[Christine]

That is really bold, my friend.

[Emma]

And actually also very justifying of our rumor of our theory that maybe he's like an effeminate little boy. Because I. I feel like he could say bullshit or he could call it unadulterated poppycock.

[Christine]

Poppycock is a crazy way to say that, and I love it.

[Emma]

You sound so silly.

[Christine]

I love being extremely silly.

[Emma]

I know that was just like the warning of the time, but in today's world, if, like, my father had the nerve to call something unadulterated poppycock, I would go, what's happening?

[Christine]

Please question yourself, sir. Please ask why you're doing this.

[Emma]

The other people in the bar that he called bullshit on were like, if you're that brave or you don't believe us, then you go spend a night in there.

[Christine]

Yes.

[Emma]

And Robert warboys, who's the 20 year old bro dude, or that's what he's trying to proclaim. He is. He did not back down from a challenge. And so that night, he leaves the bar and goes straight to the house and calls the landlord and is like, give me your most haunted room for one night, please.

[Christine]

Okay, so now is this an apartment, like a hotel? How is he just, like going in there?

[Emma]

Excellent question. It is a random townhouse. And for anyone wondering, the second floor is said to be where the most haunted room is, but it was also 1840. And it sounds like this place kind of on and off, was abandoned and someone just kind of owned it. So I don't know if he was really putting anyone out by asking to.

[Christine]

You can just like get access maybe from the landlord.

[Emma]

Yeah. To stay there.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Emma]

It sounds like the landlord was like, if you give me 50 bucks, you can stay there tonight. No, One's in there anyway.

[Christine]

Gotcha. Okay.

[Emma]

Although the landlord was very hesitant about this, he. And not be. Not for the reasons you and I would be hesitant that a strange man wants to be a man. Right. I think because he thought it was truly so haunted. He was like, you don't want to do that. I don't know really put you up to this, but you don't want to do that.

[Christine]

Oh, wow. Okay. I was not expecting that. Take. All right.

[Emma]

And Robert War Boy is like, no, I try again.

[Christine]

Actually, this is all poppycock, unadulterated poppycock, if you will.

[Emma]

And I'm going to be here and I'm going to say, and nothing's going to happen.

[Christine]

Correct.

[Emma]

The landlord was like, okay, but if you stay, you have to. There's two. Two requests. That's it. First one, here's my gun. Please take it.

[Christine]

Here's my first request. Take my weapon. What?

[Emma]

First of all, strange man in my house. Now, also, you're armed.

[Christine]

Please arm yourself. Yeah, yeah.

[Emma]

And rule two, if anything happens, you have to call me. If anything happens.

[Christine]

And I guess anything happens.

[Emma]

I guess at the time there was like a rope in the. The room that the guy was going to be staying in that had a bell on the other end of it, and that rope led all the way to the landlord's.

[Christine]

Oh, so he could ring the bell from. Okay, okay.

[Emma]

So that way the. The landlord would hear the bell in his room, but the guy could. It was almost like pulling, like a. Like a pulley or something.

[Christine]

Yeah, like a little like. But they used to have servant spells.

[Emma]

Yes, yes.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

So the landlord was like, please ring that if anything happens. Also, here's a gun.

[Christine]

Also, if you need an extra cup of tea, just do a little ding a ling and I'll be right up.

[Emma]

And also again, I feel like I've had to say this weirdly too many times on the show, but shooting a ghost has never solved anything.

[Christine]

I don't think so. I think it's only caused more problems in my recollection.

[Emma]

So anyway, he goes, fine, give me your gun. I'll sit up there. Maybe I'll shoot something. We'll see.

[Christine]

We'll see.

[Emma]

Not even an hour into Robert Warp, those War Boys being in this room, the landlord hears his bell ringing and then a gunshot. Oh, no. The landlord runs upstairs and this is what he sees. This is a quote from one of the newspaper newspapers back then, Sir Robert is. Was wedged in the corner of the room. The still smoking pistol caught in the white knuckled Grip of his fear contorted.

[Christine]

Corpse, Corpse.

[Emma]

His lips were peeled back from his clenched teeth in a grimace of horror.

[Christine]

What?

[Emma]

And his eyes seemed to be literally bulging from his skull. So he truly the, like, died of fright.

[Christine]

What the hell? Okay. This poor little guy.

[Emma]

I know.

[Christine]

I didn't think he was gonna die from the ghost.

[Emma]

Imagine all the people who dared him at the bar.

[Christine]

I know you must feel real shitty now, but you're also like, told you.

[Emma]

I know. It's like, which two things can be true at once.

[Christine]

Yeah. But, like, when is it too. Is it too soon to say told you so?

[Emma]

Probably, you know, the first time everyone got together at the bar, like, a week later, and they're like, can we say it yet? Because that was crazy.

[Christine]

Are we okay? Yeah.

[Emma]

The landlord ends up looking around to be like, what the fuck? This guy shoot at? And he found the bullet mark, but there was nothing. There was nobody there. There was nothing there. The room was left completely untouched.

[Christine]

What the fuck, dude?

[Emma]

And that was. That began at least the lore that this house kills people to, like, scares them to death.

[Christine]

I don't like that. Like, I'm always about down to go to a haunted house and get scared and all that. I love it, but I don't necessarily want my life to be at risk. I don't feel the need to be armed, hopefully, you know? And also, like, it didn't even seem to help that he was armed.

[Emma]

Right. It's like, well, I guess I'm just walking in to not make it out, I guess.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

I don't feel good about any of this.

[Emma]

Well, it was after this story, one, that the house became known as the house that scares you to death. But two, this is when the town got the name for the creature that must be killing people in this house. And it became known as the nameless thing.

[Christine]

Like, that's. Actually, I thought it was super cute when you first said it, and now I feel really threatened about it. It.

[Emma]

It was because of the cutesy, rich neighborhood, the nameless thing of Berkeley Square. It sounds like something. It sounds like. Like the sisterhood of the Traveling Pants.

[Christine]

Yes, it sounds like a Paddington. Like a chapter in padding. I've never read Paddington, but it sounds like something from Paddington Bear. I don't know.

[Emma]

Well, so in 1843, this is only three years later, the house is still abandoned, dilapidated. I guess a landlord, or maybe like a property owner still exists, but it seems like people are not living here. Here.

[Christine]

Sheesh.

[Emma]

There are two sailors in town. Their ship came into Port. That day. I think their names were Edward and Robert. And they went out drinking. They went out drinking so much that they accidentally spent all their money that they were supposed to use on a hotel drinking. So they ended up not having a place to stay. They couldn't afford it.

[Christine]

Drinking, you don't need a hotel.

[Emma]

Yeah, it keeps you warm, but it ends up keeping them out a little too late. And they needed a place to crash but had no money. So they ended up.

[Christine]

I see where we're going.

[Emma]

Either hearing about this house or walking past it and seeing that it was abandoned, they snuck in to sleep. And of course, of all the rooms they decided to sleep in, it was the haunted room. So it said that Edward, as soon as he went in there, he told Robert, hey, this room makes me feel, like, really freaking weird. Like there's something here. Something. It feels like something's looking at us. I feel really anxious, but what are you gonna do? Also, they were both drunk, so I think they just went to bed. Yep. Which you and I have had that experience where you're like, oh, there's definitely something in this hotel room. Anyway, good night. Anyway.

[Christine]

Anyway. Love you.

[Emma]

By so soon after falling asleep, Edward, the one who was feeling anxious.

[Christine]

Yep.

[Emma]

Wakes up to a really bad smell in the house.

[Christine]

That's bad already. It's bad.

[Emma]

Then he hears heavy but slow, loud footsteps coming up the stairs.

[Christine]

Hey, that's so frightening. Especially like, you're in an abandoned place. You're already feeling on edge. You're like, could this be someone who, like, owns the. Like, you don't even know. It sounds like it could be someone threatening. You don't even have the landlord's gun with you. Probably.

[Emma]

Finally. Maybe I need the gun.

[Christine]

Yeah, I get it now. I would be like, where's my gun that I don't own?

[Emma]

Well, I will actually say they did have a gun with them. Oh, they did.

[Christine]

Okay. Okay. Okay. That must have been comforting for a minute, for five seconds before they realized it was the nameless thing.

[Emma]

Well, the window. The window didn't open by itself. And so they were using the gun to wedge the window open.

[Christine]

And so it's a very Christine move. Okay, go on.

[Emma]

And so their gun was actually on the other side of the room. So it's like a horror movie when you're lying in bed and you know your weapons all the way over there.

[Christine]

You, like, reach over under the nightstand and you're like, oh, yeah.

[Emma]

Oh, God, I needed a goddamn breeze tonight, didn't I? So anyway, they hear this heavy Loud footsteps. These coming up the stairs.

[Christine]

Nightmare.

[Emma]

He wakes up Robert. And both of them not only hear the footsteps, but then once the steps get to the top of the stairs, they hear something heavy and wet dragging itself towards them. And they hear a footstep. And then a sloshy dragging.

[Christine]

A lurch.

[Emma]

A lurch.

[Christine]

Yuck.

[Emma]

And then all of a sudden, they see the shadow on the floor getting closer to them and the sound of their own door creaking open. And then they see the monster jump towards them.

[Christine]

It jumps. Oh.

[Emma]

Edward reaches for the gun, but this thing was faster than them. Landed on top of him, and wrapped itself around Edward's neck.

[Christine]

Oh, okay. Well, like, see, this is also unfair because it's like, if you're gonna be moving really fast, the note slowly stomp down the hallway and make me think, like, oh, at least I have the advantage of speed on my side, you know, That's.

[Emma]

But that's the. That's the last.

[Christine]

So scary.

[Emma]

An extra aha moment of like, it's like it's lurching.

[Christine]

And then all of a sudden, it's. And it's like, lurch. I mean, oh, God, help me. I'm. No, I don't like this one bit.

[Emma]

Well, so Robert was able to escape. He actually found a cop in town, and the cop followed him back. But when they got back, they could not find Edward in the room anymore, but the house was silent. They ended up searching the house, and when they got down to the basement, they found Edward on the stairs, his neck broken, his head. His head contorted in a weird way. His mouth wide open as if it were screaming, and his eyes wide with horror.

[Christine]

Ew. That's so grotesque.

[Emma]

Another version is that Edward was not found on the basement stairs, but that Robert actually watched the monster wrap around Edward and then throw Edward out the open window onto a fence post, which impaled him.

[Christine]

Oh, God. Okay.

[Emma]

Either way, I'm pretty sure Robert went to jail for murder.

[Christine]

Like, I mean, really, That's a really rough sell. Like, you gotta believe me, it was Lurchin.

[Emma]

Yeah. Yeah. From here, depending on the story you hear, the monster takes many shapes because all we ever heard was the monster. But people kind of used context clues to put together what they thought the monster looked like.

[Christine]

And it's making me uncomfortable that I don't know, more detail mentally. Like, I just picture, like, a blob, right?

[Emma]

And so a lot of people say that it's just like this literal, amorphous, like, slimy blob, right? Because they Were hearing something wet and like suctiony kind of walking towards us.

[Christine]

Sounds like a blob. Yeah, like a swamp monster or something.

[Emma]

They also say that maybe it was a gray mist. Some people say brown mist. Other people say it's a shadow person. Other people say it was one collection of multiple shadows, like Legion. But a lot of people say that through all of this, because it was heavy and wet and dragging itself and felt like it had some suctions and was able to wrap itself around his neck and everything, people have decided that the nameless thing on Berkeley Square is a giant octopus.

[Christine]

Shut the up. Okay, I'm just holding up the card now. The cryptid. It looks like the Cryptid Times.

[Emma]

Okay, Is this like the Saturday Evening Post or something?

[Christine]

The nameless thing of Berkeley Square. It's like an old timey sketch from a newspaper. It's like a Victorian girl sitting in a chair in the. These giant tentacles coming through like a frame. It looks like a mirror. A frame, like coming toward her.

[Emma]

Yeah, so anyway, that is what we know. We assume it's an octopus.

[Christine]

God.

[Emma]

And then people are like, well, how would an octopus survive in London?

[Christine]

That's a great question. How would a legion of demons splurge along the floor? You know, I have questions too, so shut the fuck up. Well, I was thinking giant squid, but I think like. Like, same vibes.

[Emma]

Right, Same vibes. Tentacles. Tentacles. It will. A lot of people defend this argument by saying, well, he must live under the streets, in the sewer. And he, at the time, London had a.

[Christine]

Just to be clear, I'm not signing off on that. When I said it doesn't mean I'm signing off immediately on the explanation of the octopus. I just think, like, have an open mind, everyone.

[Emma]

Yeah, yeah, understood. I hear you. I guess at the time London had a rat problem. And so I don't know if they still do. I'm sorry, London, I don't know enough about your rats.

[Christine]

It feels like you would. No offense.

[Emma]

It does feel like I would.

[Christine]

Not you, London. It feels like MU would have a rat problem. No, it feels like London would have a rat problem still. Like, I don't see. I mean, New York still has a rap problem. DC still has a rap problem. I don't see my London.

[Emma]

DC is a horrible rap problem.

[Christine]

Is crazy.

[Emma]

No, I. I took it as a compliment, though, like with my adhd, that.

[Christine]

You would know that I would just.

[Emma]

Have random knowledge about that.

[Christine]

I thought. Okay, I thought you were insinuating. I claimed that you had a rat problem yourself. And I Was like. That's really a rude thing to say. I promise that's not what I mean.

[Emma]

I thought you were saying it feels like something you would know about, and I was.

[Christine]

That. You know what? That I will sign off on. It does feel like something you would know.

[Emma]

So I'm disappointed in myself, but something to spiral through tonight.

[Christine]

Yep.

[Emma]

Anyway, people say, well, obviously it lives in the sewers under London and lives off of all the rats. That's how it exists here. And when I can't get an extra helping, instead of eating rats, it eats the people that live in some.

[Christine]

Okay, but, like, crack, above the sewer, eat anybody?

[Emma]

That's a great question. It just scared them to death.

[Christine]

Yeah, I don't know that it ate anyone, did it?

[Emma]

No. That's a good point.

[Christine]

So what's the. That.

[Emma]

What the Are all these blogs talking about, then?

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

Really?

[Christine]

Come on, guys.

[Emma]

Well, okay, so now we're in the 1870s, and the house is bought by a guy named Mr. Myers for him and his bride to be. But guess what? But before the wedding, his wife dumped him, his fiance dumped him.

[Christine]

Ooh.

[Emma]

So he's heartbroken. He locks himself away in this house as if it's his personal tower. And he wanders the halls at night with a candle, apparently just crying and crying and crying. So sad. This actually added to the reports from neighbors saying that this place was haunted because they would see a random light in the middle of the night wandering the halls, and they'd hear wailing at odd hours. Oh, it was like, no, girl, he was just depressed. He's just random. Really sad.

[Christine]

He's not a giant squid. Leave him alone.

[Emma]

So if you're having.

[Christine]

He's just, like, squelching through his tears.

[Emma]

If you're having a depressive era, just know that maybe you're someone's neighborhood lore.

[Christine]

And, like, isn't that fun? Let that brighten your day for just a glimpse, you know, it would help me.

[Emma]

I'd be like, at least I, like, am someone's, like, at least I'm. Good conversation.

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

There are more extreme rumors that he was so devastated by this heartbreak that he got into, like. Like, devil worship to try and get her back. Which added fuel to the rumors that the house is haunted. They also use it as, like, a justification as to why it was haunted to begin with. Them. Maybe he brought them all in.

[Christine]

Okay. Like, his, like, negative energy, I guess.

[Emma]

Maybe you're like, that's a lot to.

[Christine]

Put on this guy. He's just depressed.

[Emma]

He's going through a Lot. Sheesh. And fun fact, by the way, he actually failed to pay his taxes. Probably because he was so depressed.

[Christine]

Yeah, he. Because when he got to the part that said spouse dependent, anyway.

[Emma]

Well, he couldn't pay his taxes, but the magistrate excused it, quote, because he lived in the haunted house. Oh.

[Christine]

They were like.

[Emma]

He actually.

[Christine]

If anyone gets a pass, they were.

[Emma]

Like, you're going through it. You're like, we don't need to know about that. They probably didn't want to touch the haunted papers. Okay. A few years after that, a guy named Lord Littleton, who I feel like I've said his name before in past stories, but he was interested in paranormal.

[Christine]

Farquhat gun.

[Emma]

He is a little evil, but anyway, he heard that this place was haunted. He was in town, he wanted to stay the night, try his hand at this haunted room. He was a skeptic, but he also wasn't an idiot. And he was like, based on everything else I've heard, I'm bringing my own gun. So.

[Christine]

Okay. He's not using it to prop the window open. I guess I'm snuggling it.

[Emma]

So in bed that night, he hears shuffling and apparently sees anything. A shadowy ball of tentacles.

[Christine]

First of all, that feels a little bit suspicious, like a little sus. That you see a shadowy ball of. Like, it feels like somebody in the corner has a flashlight and it's going.

[Emma]

Like, ooh, it does fingers feel like a. Like if you're looking at it, if you're thinking of just a shadow of a ball of tentacles, that's just like a wig or something.

[Christine]

That's what I. Yeah, it's like your fingers are like. You can make it up. Like. Like somebody's doing a shadow puppet. I don't know.

[Emma]

Yeah. Yeah. I. I don't know. Maybe he would have see a blob.

[Christine]

And then you'd be like, oh, my God, it's tentacles. And it's like.

[Emma]

You're right.

[Christine]

No, you know, that's just like the fireplace blobs. I don't know. I just feel like. Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, not that I should be just, like, on this guy's observations, but, I mean, it's like a stretch every.

[Emma]

Time I'm sleeping in a new place, the shadows freak me out at night.

[Christine]

And, like. And especially if you're on edge and.

[Emma]

Going there knowing that it's haunted.

[Christine]

I mean, it could have been an octopus.

[Emma]

It could have been like a plant, like a fern or something, you know?

[Christine]

Exactly.

[Emma]

Either way, for the story, it could.

[Christine]

Have been the very stuffed octopus they keep in the corner.

[Emma]

That would be hysterical if the landlord was crazy. We're just gonna keep it right here.

[Christine]

We're just gonna put that here next to this flashlight and see what happens.

[Emma]

Well, he ends up shooting at this thing.

[Christine]

Cool.

[Emma]

Should have hit it if it's, like, just in his bedroom and he has a whole ass shotgun with him.

[Christine]

Now, was he shooting at the shadow? Because it's like. Well, if you're shooting at the sh.

[Emma]

So now that's the question.

[Christine]

You should be shooting at what's casting the shadow. But again, now I'm getting a little in the weeds. Sorry, I.

[Emma]

You're not asking questions. I've got a lot of questions. I haven't asked you to stop. You know what I'm saying?

[Christine]

No, but I think. I think maybe you're too nice to do that, so.

[Emma]

Well, he shot it. He shot at something. He at least shot the shadow, which is a great point. That, like, that's not what you shoot at.

[Christine]

That's not really how that works.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

Unless it's like a shadow. Like a shadow figure, you know?

[Emma]

Know, another thing that's interesting to me is that he then just, like, went to sleep and then decided he would investigate in the morning. And I'm like, you weren't scared to see if it was still alive?

[Christine]

Although I feel like you do hear that, right? Of, like, the paranormal apathy or whatever. I forget who called. I think Astonishing Legends talks about that a lot, where people will write in be like, I saw this, like, ridiculous thing and shadow person, and then I just rolled over, went to sleep. Like, it seems like a thing that happens at night. Like, people will.

[Emma]

I mean, I've had that when I saw my grandpa. Yeah. But I. But I don't know if I had enough adrenaline to want to slay something.

[Christine]

Fair enough. If you're shooting a gun, it feels a little bit like maybe that would kind of shake you out of your stupor.

[Emma]

I would really love to talk to a. Like a psychologist. If I had enough brain power and feeling to want to shoot something but then go to bed, that'd be crazy.

[Christine]

Yes. Yes, I would agree with that. Yeah.

[Emma]

So he shoots this thing. He wakes up the next morning to go look for it, and it's not there. Which, duh. He had all night to get away. But also, maybe there was just nothing there to begin with.

[Christine]

Is there a bullet hole? Did they ever discuss that? Or was it just like.

[Emma]

We don't even know there was, like, bullet marks. But then you could say he was just shooting the wall. Just.

[Christine]

And also, like, other people were shooting in there before, so I don't know.

[Emma]

Yeah, this is the third person with a gun.

[Christine]

Jesus. I mean. Okay.

[Emma]

And when asked about it later, I don't know what he went through. I don't know if he was, like, maybe totally freaked out. Maybe he was just doing it for the newspapers. But when asked about the house, he did say that it was, quote, supernaturally fatal to body and mind.

[Christine]

Oh, supernaturally fatal.

[Emma]

Which, if I remember, remember when we wrote a book, remember in the back of one of them when we had to write, like, quotes or we, like, we were supposed to get quotes from other people. And I was like, no, no, no, we'll just do it ourselves.

[Christine]

Yeah, no, we were both supposed to get quotes. And then you were like, I'll handle it. And I was like, thank God, because I don't feel like it.

[Emma]

Well, I did something on the back of one of them where, like, it was a quote from Zach Baggins, but it was like, something he said, like, on his show and not directly about.

[Christine]

Extremely good. Extremely good.

[Emma]

I feel like I would do that again here with Lord Littleton where, like, if we had to do another book and, like, the quote was supernaturally fatal to body and mind, like, that feels.

[Christine]

Like, like, the biggest compliment.

[Emma]

Yeah, like, thanks so much.

[Christine]

That's so kind.

[Emma]

So, okay, A few years after he's there, a man and his daughters move in. Immediately. Day of, the daughter's like, what's that really bad smell? Oh, no, she actually said it was similar to, like, a zoo and, like, the animals hadn't been cleaned up lately.

[Christine]

Oh, okay. So like, like, bad poop.

[Emma]

Poop, yeah. Well, a day.

[Christine]

Sewage.

[Emma]

Christine. Well, the day. The next day, that same daughter's fiance was going to come to town as well and stay with them. So the maid went upstairs to fix up his room. The haunted room, of course.

[Christine]

Of course.

[Emma]

And very soon after, the family hears the maid screaming in horror from that room room, and they run up to find her on the floor repeating non stop, don't let it touch me.

[Christine]

Ew. I'm glad she's not dead. I thought we were gonna find another one. And that was sad. But wow, that's dark.

[Emma]

She was in total shock. She couldn't say what she saw. She just kept saying, don't let it touch me. So they brought her to, like, a mental hospital.

[Christine]

Oh.

[Emma]

And with an hour, she was dead.

[Christine]

No. Why did I say it? Why did I even go there?

[Emma]

Well, the next day, the fiance, like, Was already probably on his, like, three organ trail trek to get here.

[Christine]

Yeah, exactly. Oh, no.

[Emma]

So he finally shows up and he's like, oh, my God, that's crazy. I can't. Like, what did she find? Let me go investigate and see what she saw.

[Christine]

What an idiot. Go run a far away. Everybody run away.

[Emma]

Well, so he goes up there by himself. Sure enough, the family hears him screaming. The story on some sources also said there were gunshots, but that could be getting mixed up with the other stories. They find him upstairs, dead, and his face was quote, quote, depending on the source, twisted in horror or contorted in fear.

[Christine]

I think I would say those are probably similar.

[Emma]

Yeah, similar enough.

[Christine]

Similar, if not same.

[Emma]

So that's now like the fourth or fifth person in that room to die from fright.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's really not good news.

[Emma]

Nowadays, it is an antique bookshop called. Called Mags Brothers. It is still said to be haunted to this day. Employees have said that, you know, they've experienced some spooky stuff. Although the owner, I don't know if he's just trying to, like, get away from the original lore of this, but he's like, oh, there are ghosts, but they're of the authors connected to the books.

[Christine]

It's like, yeah, right, okay. I'm sure he's just sick of filling in bullet holes in the walls. I mean, that's got to be really annoying. Imagine how much toothpaste that would take.

[Emma]

Thank you for admitting what you use, because I knew it was not going to be the right material.

[Christine]

Certainly not like the caulk or whatever they call it that I refuse to.

[Emma]

Say they call it poppy. Actually.

[Christine]

Fill the walls with poppy caulk.

[Emma]

Unadulterated poppy.

[Christine]

Oh, actually, that's pretty fun. I like that.

[Emma]

So anyway, he says the ghosts are connected to the books, which I guess if you're there by yourself at night, that's. You got to tell yourself something.

[Christine]

Exactly. And I like. Honestly, I'm sure it's not. Not that either. Like, I'm sure they're there too, probably.

[Emma]

Well, the employees. This is how haunted the place still is. The second floor, where all this. Where all the activity is. Employees are not allowed to go up to that entire floor, even to use it as storage. Even the manager himself is not allowed to go up there. It is prohibited by the police. There is.

[Christine]

Whoa.

[Emma]

Apparently, I notice either still on the wall or in the office or something, but there's a police report from the 1950s that bans anyone from going up there.

[Christine]

What the. From the 1950s, still 1950s.

[Emma]

So I don't know how tightly or loosely that rule is followed, but the employer, the employees do say, like, we are not allowed up there.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's pretty nutty.

[Emma]

Investigators, I guess, have been up there or have gone up to the floor at least, and maybe not the room. I'm not sure. But investigators have gone up there. They said that they haven't found much activity. However, 50 Berkeley Square is still called by many the most haunted house in London. And even my favorite, Harry Price, who was the Zach Bacons before Zack Bagans, he, back in the 1920s, said that he looked into the place and he believed that it was a, quote, particularly nasty poltergeist. That looks.

[Christine]

Okay. I would believe that. That sounds like what. It's. What is happening.

[Emma]

Yeah. And one article. I mean, it's literally just scaring people. Maybe he's just really good at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. One article said that the walls of the house are found saturated with electric horror.

[Christine]

Oh, that's beautiful.

[Emma]

Okay. Poetry.

[Christine]

Okay.

[Emma]

And to this day, people, I'm assuming mainly employees, have reported that there are sounds of moving, dragging, and items throwing themselves upstairs. Apparently on their. On the. The main floor, too. You can hear dragging and things moving themselves around. You hear knocking upstairs. You smell strange smells. There's moving mists. The doors and windows will slam themselves open and shut. People hear old bells ringing even though the bell is no longer there.

[Christine]

Oh, the, like, little servant bell. Oh, and that landlord probably can still hear it in his dreams. Well, he's definitely dead by now, but, like.

[Emma]

But his great grandson can.

[Christine]

Oh, God, yes. For sure.

[Emma]

People hear screaming upstairs, crying upstairs, footsteps banging around upstairs. They've apparently seen items throw themselves out of the window.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. Like the girl.

[Emma]

Oh, no.

[Christine]

And the guy. Oh, wait, hold on. The guy. Also, they said was thrown out the window. Edward. Yeah, or potentially one of the stories. Right.

[Emma]

Also, that confirms that there are items upstairs still, and they're just, like, chucking up. It's like, if you're not gonna come up here and clean this place up, I'll do it.

[Christine]

Good point. Like, get the. Out of my house. Yeah.

[Emma]

People in older period clothing have been seen standing in the windows.

[Christine]

I hope they're not trapped there. That sounds dark.

[Emma]

Yeah, I mean, that's a good point. But I guess if the windows opened and closing, at least they're getting some fresh air.

[Christine]

Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Use their gun to prop it open for a bit.

[Emma]

Yeah, yeah. Thank God. One of the haunts here. Nobody hears a Gun just going off.

[Christine]

That would be extremely upsetting if that were, like, a constant. Yeah.

[Emma]

Can you imagine if that was the way your house haunts you, is that you just hear random gun violence?

[Christine]

I wonder if that's a thing because I feel like you hear other. Like people hear car crash repeating or like people falling. I wonder if that's ever anywhere. Like, is that a thing in, like, Gettysburg or something. Do you people hear gunshots?

[Emma]

Oh, yeah. Well, I've also. I've heard.

[Christine]

And cannonballs I've heard. Yeah.

[Emma]

It's funny you mentioned that, because I was gonna say, I think I only ever hear about that on, like, battlefields.

[Christine]

Like battlefields.

[Emma]

Right. I grew up.

[Christine]

Because there's so much of it.

[Emma]

I grew up on an old battlefield and everyone was always saying, oh, I heard a gunshot. I heard a gunshot. But also, we live in Virginia. Yeah, quit flexing.

[Christine]

I lived in downtown Cincinnati. I heard many gunshots.

[Emma]

Yeah. So it's like I can't tell if that's real or someone was just, like, shooting in their backyard.

[Christine]

It's another day.

[Emma]

Anyway. The main thing people know this house for is that they. People go. Go temporarily insane and then die from fear.

[Christine]

That's, like, extremely upsetting to me.

[Emma]

And the most scary part, of course, is the thing. The nameless thing. That, of course, again, is maybe a shadow person, maybe an octopus. We don't know, maybe a mist.

[Christine]

No.

[Emma]

The. This thing, this nameless thing. I'll end on this. But one paper actually described the thing as a vile, phantasmagorical killer from beyond the grave.

[Christine]

Oh, my God. Who's writing this? This is amazing.

[Emma]

We need to bring back critical reading skills and writing skills. No, for real.

[Christine]

Immediately has met Gorko. Are you kidding me? Sat.

[Emma]

Much like the fact that someone just threw that out of their brain. But, like, people these days can't tell the difference between. There. They're there.

[Christine]

I know. It's like, I'm really impressed. I'm inspired, really.

[Emma]

Well, anyway, that's the nameless thing of Berkeley Square.

[Christine]

That's honestly one of my favorites you've ever done, I think. Really? Yeah. I don't know why. I didn't even know what was coming, but something about a nameless thing. I actually got quite frightened about it. And people. I mean, that's. That's scary.

[Emma]

Wow.

[Christine]

And I can't believe I've never heard of it. I feel like this deserves more attention. You know, I.

[Emma]

You know, you gotta thank the. The Cryptids cards.

[Christine]

I'm really thanking them. And when you said you went to Delaware. I assuming this, I was assuming this was coming from Delaware, but no, the.

[Emma]

Cards were that, you know, I should have done something from Delaware, but no.

[Christine]

I like, I like this. I like this one. This one's one of my new favorites, I think. Yeah, I love it. Yay. Well, I'm really excited because I want to show you my ghost hunting apps that I used in Egypt and I was just going through them yesterday and I found like some fun stuff that I had captured at the, at like different spots.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So I thought during the intermission I could play those.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So if you, if you want to hop on Patreon or I guess you can access it through Bruce podcast, whatever podcast app you're on. We're gonna do a little intermission, Yappy hour. But do you want to have a quick pee break before that?

[Emma]

Yes.

[Christine]

Yay.

[Emma]

Christine, it is almost January, which for me is Dr. Season.

[Christine]

No.

[Emma]

It, I. It ain't. Ain't so. So I guess it is so. And unfortunately, I've got a lot of things I gotta do. I gotta check my hearing, gotta check my eyeballs, gotta check my. What else? I have a lot of doctors coming up and I don't know where to look. Oh wait, yes I do. I have to go to zocdoc.

[Christine]

No, it's really amazing. Zocdoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. They have. We've been using this for I think like 10 years or something. Like, like nine. Like a really long time. And nowadays it's so much more robust even than it was then. You don't have to call anybody on the phone. You can see more than 100,000 doctors on the app across every specialty from mental health to dental health, et cetera, etc, and you can filter them by insurance, see their ratings and reviews and their openings so you don't even have to call the office, just click it and then within 24 to 72 hours, you've got an appointment.

[Emma]

Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com drink to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's z o c-o c.com drink zocdoc.com drink.

[Christine]

If you're still overpaying for wireless, what's wrong with you? It's time to say yes to saying no. I love that beautiful sentiment.

[Emma]

I. I love that too. With Mint Mobile, their favorite word is no. There's no contracts, there's no monthly bills, there's no overages, there's no hidden fees, there's no bs and it was the easiest switch we could have ever made. And you can get Premium Wireless for $15 a month on top of that.

[Christine]

$15 a month. That means you can ditch overpriced wireless. And they're jaw dropping monthly bills. Especially nowadays. Like let's cut costs people. Plans start at just $15 a month and come with high speed data, unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Experienced an issue using Mint Mobile. I love to have it. It's such a good backup, especially on the tour iPad. When we forget to. When I, I. Why am I saying we? I forget to prepare and get on the wi fi and then suddenly I'm like oh, thank God we have Mint Mobile.

[Emma]

It has, it has never failed us. We love Mint Mobile. We love it. Ready to say yes to saying no. Then make the [e-mail] ATWD that's mintmobile.com.

[Christine]

ATW WWD upfront payment of 45 required equivalent to 15amonth limited time. New customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan taxes and fees extra C Mint Mobile for details. All right everyone. We just had the spookiest conversation with a ghost in my house. And he said come over here. And we said where? And he said the window. But if you want to see the rest, you can go to our patreon.

[Emma]

I can only imagine how the rest went. Yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

And I cannot because I always already forget. Otherwise I probably would tell you. So anyway, that was really creepy and fun and I love me some ghost tube. Okay, now I'm going to tell you a story. This one is wild. This is the story of the disappearance of Robert Bobby Dunbar.

[Emma]

Bobby Dunbar sounds like a Dunbar little like a little kid from the 50s.

[Christine]

Well, it's a kid born in 1908. Oh, but you're close. Okay, so he was born May 23, 1908 to Lessie and Percy Dunbar of Opelousas, Louisiana. The Dunbars were a respected middle class family. Percy the dad, worked in real estate and insurance and they were active in the Methodist church. They had like quite a bit big community. And within the family they had two sons. There was Bobby, who's the eldest, he was four years old and his younger brother Alonzo. Okay, the boys were very close. They played a lot lot outdoors together. And this is where I tell you that the context of the family is important because one of the themes of the story is kind of how the media portrayed these people during a time of like great trauma in their lives and the other people affected. And the way that like the media framed missing children's stories back then is, is really alarming and probably showcases some of the similar issues we have today with like who gets media attention when they go missing and Right. You know, that kind of thing. And so we're gonna get Forward here to 1912. It's August 23, 1912. The Dunbars are taking a summer trip to Swayze Lake, which is a swampy, alligator filled area in St. Landry Parish, Louisiana.

[Emma]

Why are we vacationing there?

[Christine]

Because we live in Louisiana. I have no idea.

[Emma]

You know, I would love. You really did just spark something in me. Speaking of my ADHD rabbit holes, I can't wait later to go waste time looking up where people used to vacation in 1912.

[Christine]

Like, isn't that interesting because if you.

[Emma]

Didn'T have an amusement park, where would you vacation? Just to like.

[Christine]

Well, I'm reading the book the God of the woods, or I think it's called God of the woods and it talks about people like, well, to do people vacationing in the Adirondacks back in the day. So apparently that was a thing.

[Emma]

Now that I understand. Understand.

[Christine]

Yeah. So I'm sure there are those like pockets. But yeah, I guess they were out and they were just camping so it wasn't like they were like on some destination, you know, vacation. But I feel like I did.

[Emma]

I just told a lot about, about myself when I was like, what would you possibly have to do out there without an amusement?

[Christine]

Stimulation, without like constant stimulation and gift shops everywhere. Yeah.

[Emma]

100.

[Christine]

How. Where would I, where would I get all my pins and stickers? That would be so tragic. Magic.

[Emma]

Like in 1912, I would have so much more money.

[Christine]

Oh, we'd be rich. I know because we wouldn't spend all our money on Chachkis. Okay. So they're in this rustic area, very thickly wooded swampland, Marshland, alligators. On August 23rd, the adults are preparing lunch and four year old Bobby wanders off from camp. Different accounts differ. Different accounts differ. Accounts.

[Emma]

Can you believe it?

[Christine]

Accounts differ slightly. But most say he was playing near the water's edge with other, other children when he vanished. When his family realized they were missing, they of course panicked. They start searching immediately. They find muddy footprints leading away from the lake, reportedly toward a nearby railroad trestle, suggesting he may have walked off rather than drowned. So despite days of searching, they find no sign of poor Bobby, they find not a single piece of clothing. No footprints beyond just the railroad trestle. No remains, Nothing. Nothing. Most people at this point were speculating that, of course, alligators are quicksand, which, unfortunately, are big problems there had claimed this little boy if he wandered off. But because of the footprints that they found leading to the railroad, some people speculated that, you know, a. Somebody passing through may have abducted him. Okay, so over the following week, searchers dragged the lake. They actually used dynamite in the lake to, like, displace the water and look for remains. Feels 1912.

[Emma]

Yeah, I understand, but it also feels a little Wile E. Coyote of, like, big time.

[Christine]

They dropped a huge anvil in the middle of the pond, like, and a big piano, too. The big piano fell out of the sky.

[Emma]

Well, no, because I. You would think, like, what if he's still alive and now you've just dynamited him, you know?

[Christine]

Exactly. And my thought was, like, well, I guess if you're trying to displace the water, sure, he's probably, you know, it's probably too late. Anyhow. They did find remains, but only of a deer, so not of any human. And so I don't know if the water, like, splashed up and then splashed down. I don't know if you had to, like, wait for it to fill back up.

[Emma]

It does feel like it should all.

[Christine]

Go and then just, like, splash, right? Exactly.

[Emma]

Like, not a drop missing.

[Christine]

And almost every fish goes with it and then, like, lands exactly where it was. You know, like, it feels like a cartoon to dynamite the in swampland. But they did that. They did. They did a lot looking for this little kid. They looked in local cabins, outbuildings, Anywhere where he may have, like, wandered to, but they found not a single trace of him. They even actually took his. So he was wearing this straw hat. And they took, like, the exact same type of straw hat and put it on the water to see if it would sink. Because they were thinking, like, oh, well, if he had drowned, you know, would this hat have floated? And the hat floated for hours and hours, and they thought, spotlight. That's kind of when they determined, like, oh, there's a chance he wandered away, because we probably would have found the hat. You know, I don't know what the case is with an alligator. I mean, honestly, I don't know much about how they attack.

[Emma]

That's a great point. I totally forgot about the alligators for a second. But that, you know, it's. It makes you really appreciate the science we have today, because they literally had to Go on a guess based on whether or not a hat could fall afloat.

[Christine]

Yes, I know, I know.

[Emma]

Maybe he's walking somewhere now.

[Christine]

Yeah, yeah. It's kind of crazy. Like they were doing all sorts of, like it feels very rudimentary, like tests, you know, like, it does give me.

[Emma]

A little less respect for detectives back in the day because I'm like, everyone was just guessing. You just.

[Christine]

Yeah, and also it's sort of like, well, you're floating a hat around, but like that doesn't prove anything.

[Emma]

Like, but you're the inspector in town. Like.

[Christine]

Yeah, it's like if it, if it sinks, okay, but you just, you're gonna also dynamite the water and not find it. Like, I just don't really understand, but I guess it's a cheap test if you're going to do a test to put a straw hat in the water. I guess, but it just seems a little bit strange to me as well. The Dunbars offered a six thousand dollar reward which today, just to give you an idea is. Drum roll please. $200,397.

[Emma]

Damn.

[Christine]

Upfront offered for their child's safe return. And this is when newspapers really caught on and started spreading the story.

[Emma]

Sure.

[Christine]

The case quickly became very public, very dramatic. It was about, you know, they focused on the parents and their devotion and their, their loss and all the steps they were taking to get their boys way back. Reports centered heavily on Lessie's grief. And you know, they were like writing everything in this fanciful language like, oh, she faints over herself, you know, like, I'm sure they were making it sound extra dramatic.

[Emma]

Sure.

[Christine]

But they were really like milking the story as far as not the, not the family, but the, the newspapers about Lesi's grief, the mother's grief.

[Emma]

Well, also, I imagine as a business they were probably thinking like, if they've got this kind of money, we want to do everything we can to look like we were certainly, you know, helping or trying to get the story out.

[Christine]

But they're not even that rich. It's sort of like they had like, they were like middle class folks. I mean, they weren't like they were clearly well off enough to be offering a shit ton of money to the public. But I think like it was more like the all American angle. Like these all American, American people, they're just like you and they're going through this horror. Can you imagine what this is like? Which, you know, people of course like ate it up, Right. Like, I mean, any sort of, like, if you think like I Mean any of the cases nowadays where people get fixated and follow. And a lot of them are huge because it's like people that look like you or you know, somebody where you think, I can't believe this happened to that person. And that's kind of the, the angle they run with somebody. So the newspapers start sharing all the information about the family and the boy being missing, and people all over the nation started to get invested. This went on for eight months and the family lived in this like grief stricken limbo. Lesi reportedly suffered severe depression. Percy threw himself 100% into his work and searching for his son. And we fast forward those eight months and we're in April of 1913.

[Emma]

Okay.

[Christine]

Authorities in Columbia, Mississippi, arrest a man named William Cantwell Walters. He's a 35 year old traveling piano tuner.

[Emma]

Yep.

[Christine]

Other sources listed his occupation as tinkerer.

[Emma]

That sounded about the same to me as well.

[Christine]

Correct.

[Emma]

I, I, God, I would give anything to be a tinkerer professional.

[Christine]

I literally was like trying to figure out your exact quote in response to that. And it was, I wish I were a tinkerer job.

[Emma]

Okay.

[Christine]

Yeah. And so that was his, his whole deal. But the reason he was arrested is that he had been moving between towns with a small boy that wasn't his.

[Emma]

Okay, got it.

[Christine]

And this small boy, people around town, genu, generally like gave it a pass because I guess that's just what you did back then. But when he was was caught publicly whipping the boy. Oh, several towns folks, several townsfolk got together and said, we got to get this guy looked at. And they also noticed the similarity because this was such a sensational story between the little boy and Bobby Dunbar who was missing.

[Emma]

What, so for decades, men have just had this blind confidence then, huh? They're like, oh, I can steal a kid and whip him publicly and no one will notice. Are you kidding me?

[Christine]

Well, just wait. So locals, of course, looked at this and said, we got to get him turned in. They notified authorities, but Walters maintained that the boy was not Bobby Dunbar, but actually Bruce Anderson. They said, who's Bruce Anderson? He said, oh, he's the illegitimate, quote unquote, son of Julia Anderson, a field hand and former caretaker from North Carolina. He said, no, no, no. Julia Anderson told me I could take Bruce while she looked for work and that he was actually returning to her with her son when he was detained. Okay, now this is like wild because all of a sudden you have this discovery of this little boy with this dude, this tinkerer slash traveling piano tuner. And this woman who's supposedly the mother of this child, Bruce Anderson, who works as a field hand. And so, like, you immediately see the class disparity of. Of the workingclass family that was arrested and accused of, like, taking this boy. And then, you know, the Dunbars, who are at home in their Methodist community, like, grieving publicly, and you people started to immediately kind of. How should I say it? People started to classify them as sort of villain and. And good guy, you know, just based on kind of their morality of their existence and how much money they had and what they did for a living. So Walters, of course, was a working class man living on the road, and they immediately made him sound suspicious as hell, although he was traveling with a small boy and whipping him. So I don't. I don't think it took much for them to convince anybody, as far as I'm concerned. And then, you know, the more affluent Dunbars were treated as like. Like these trustworthy, heroic people. The child was placed in custody. While the Dunbars were contacted that they may have found Bobby, their son Percy and Lesie, of course, immediately traveled to Mississippi to view the boy. Now, this is where early newspaper reports conflicted because some said the boy ran into his mother's arms, crying mother. While others noted he seemed frightened and confused and even pulled away from her.

[Emma]

Oh, okay. Two. Very different story.

[Christine]

Don't even know, like, I mean, I hate that about the old reporting. It's like, okay, I get that you want to sell papers, but, like, tell me what happened. Not like what you made up in your head.

[Emma]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Christine]

It's crazy making. The next day, Lessie spent more time with the boy and she gave him a bath. And he had been, like, completely filthy, and she gave him a bath. And she said immediately she recognized his moles, his. The scar on his foot. And she apparently shouted, this is my son, and faint. At least according to the sources.

[Emma]

But, you know, differing accounts are different.

[Christine]

Different accounts are different. As. As a wise person once said. So of course, everybody celebrated. They're saying, oh, my God, the Dunbars finally found their home. We. Like a miracle upon miracles. The boy came home to Opelousis, where a parade, banners and church bells welcomed his return. They had a big parade in the street, and he had to sit on the top of, like, a car and ride town. There was also, of course, this, like, social narrative going on, right, that, like, this is justice. And these dirty, poor people took this little boy from his special family. But now let's throw him a parade, right? So they bring him home. And upon returning home, they tried to help the boy adjust. In doing so, they bought him a pony and a bicycle.

[Emma]

That's how my mom also handles things. I know, I love that. That's why I, I love all my chachkes now.

[Christine]

Cuz they feel like love fills your heart.

[Emma]

Truly. It's like, oh, let's like really like let's give them some calm peace after a really rough time.

[Christine]

Here's a horse, here's a pony riding around. You're four.

[Emma]

It's like back up. Like I need a nap and please, maybe an apple.

[Christine]

You know, I need a psychiatrist to please talk to me about what I've been going through. Cuz I almost got eaten by an alligator.

[Emma]

You blame.

[Christine]

Blew up a whole swamp to look for me. I mean like the drama here my.

[Emma]

Mom is passing out when I'm in the bath. I'm sitting on cars and a big float and I need. And I have a pony.

[Christine]

I mean it feels like a movie. And so they bought him this pony and bicycle and I love. Some of the sources said this was viewed as an extravagant, extravagant gift for 1913. I go it's probably less extravagant to give someone a horse back then than it is now 4 year olds.

[Emma]

Part of me literally was like, oh, is that just like his, like a normal thing? He's a man now. Here's a horse, you know.

[Christine]

Yeah. But no, apparently like even back then it was a quite an extravagant purchase. So. Family members later said these gestures helped him settle and you know, kind of warm him back up to calling Lessie and Percy mama and Papa. These rewards and the affection and stability they represented may have strengthened his identity as Bobby Dunbar. And later historians have pointed to this as an example of how how like social reinforcement and comfort can shape a child's sense of self. So after the Dunbars brought the boy home, newspapers nationwide celebrated the return. They praised the perseverance of his parents. And the tone toward Julie Anderson, unfortunately was scathing and dismissive from the start. And this was the woman who claimed that this was a woman that this, this traveling tinkerer claimed was the actual mother of the boy he was. He was with.

[Emma]

I see.

[Christine]

Okay, so Julia Anderson, the. The farm hand or the field hand? She learned about the Bobby Dunbar discovery through press reports in Mississippi and Louisiana. She immediately recognized details matching her missing son, Bruce. This was a boy she had entrusted to one William Cantwell Walters, a piano tuner slash tinkerer she knew through her employer's family.

[Emma]

Family, okay, so she is like confirming his alibi. This guy where he's like, correct, okay.

[Christine]

Julia told reporters she had allowed Walters to take Bruce with him for a short trip so the child could see parts of the region, and that Walters had written her once or twice afterward. When months passed without further contact, she assumed he had returned to Mississippi with the boy and was waiting to see him again, not realizing the pair were being sought for kidney kidnapping. When she saw the news of Walter's arrest, she stated plainly, that boy is mine. I let Mr. Walters take him because he was fond of him and I knew he would treat him kindly. Clearly, that didn't happen, but he's whipping him publicly. Yeah. With little money, Julia accepted financial help from a newspaper who paid for her to travel to Opelousis, Louisiana, to see the child. Upon arrival, she faced an immediate disadvantage as. Here's why. Reporters described her as a, quote, plain woman, ignorant and unrefined. Someone actually called her like a. A big burly woman or just like, really, like, unnecessary commentary.

[Emma]

Oh, my God. It's just like, she's not much to write home about.

[Christine]

Yeah, like, she's a rough one, you know, I mean, it's like, okay, she works in a field. I'd like you to see you do that.

[Emma]

Right, right, right, right.

[Christine]

The local authorities to kind of test her brought her five small boys, and she was meant to pick which one was her son. This is already, like, so traumatic.

[Emma]

What a weird little guessing game. It's like she's got to know which one's her kid.

[Christine]

So here's the thing, though. She hadn't seen him in a long time, right? Because he's been traveling around with this other man, and she'd not seen him in nearly a year. And this was. Her son was four. So this was like a three year old to a four year old. And the boys were all roughly the same age and roughly looked alike. So everyone's watch. Watching her, putting this pressure on her. She's completely overwhelmed. And she reportedly said, I can't be sure right now. It's been so long. Now, this hesitation, of course, people immediately jumped on it was portrayed as proof that she was lying or was delusional. And the next day, after she was able to spend time with the boy privately, she felt this flood of relief and said, okay, it is my son, Bruce. I've found him. She insisted to the court and to reporters that the child recognized her and that he had a small birthmark on his neck that she could identify. Identify. But despite her insistence, the public had already turned on her. And the press instead framed her as morally suspect, emphasizing that she was unmarried, had had multiple. Oh yeah, multiple children. And they basically contrasted her with the respectable church going, Lessie Dunbar and said, well, who do you think should be the mother of this boy?

[Emma]

I thought you were going to say that they had already turned on her because of the fair argument to me that, like, you haven't seen your kid in a year and that's all it takes for you to not know what your kid looks like.

[Christine]

But remember, Lessie said she didn't know and until she gave him a bath.

[Emma]

That's true. Both of them needed a second. So.

[Christine]

Yeah, you know, because she also said, like, she wasn't sure and then gave him a bath and said like, oh, wow, it is him, you know, So.

[Emma]

I still, I expected that to be a reason before. Well, she's unmarried and has other. Other kids. It's like, what?

[Christine]

Oh, yeah. It has nothing to do with that. Not nothing, but it definitely wasn't. Wasn't part of that. I also. I'm so mad at myself. I meant to mention this earlier and it. It's not gonna come up again and I can't find a place to put it. So I'm gonna say it now, but remember when I said they were like doing all this crazy to search for the boy? I completely forgot to mention that they started killing alligators and cutting them open.

[Emma]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

I meant to mention that with the whole hat thing, they were literally cutting open alligators to see if an alligator had eaten this little boy.

[Emma]

Just side note again, insanity today, but.

[Christine]

In 1940, that's like some fucking swamp. What do you call it? Like vigilante shit.

[Emma]

Some weird Duck Dynasty something. Yes, yes.

[Christine]

Also, like, there are more bounty hunter.

[Emma]

There's more than like 10 alligators. Like, now you're just killing for no reason. Like, I mean, good luck. You're gonna find the exact alligator that maybe killed.

[Christine]

It's for sure an excuse to hunt for alligators, right? Yeah. I don't know.

[Emma]

I don't know.

[Christine]

It's just wild. It's just wild.

[Emma]

Let's just say Robert Irwin is pissed.

[Christine]

Yeah, that's not nice. Okay. Yeah. Robert Ronan would not be pleased. So let me go back down because I just remembered that, that I mentioned it and I had a devastating realization. Moment of realization. Okay. So they say, you know, she's unmarried and has multiple children with multiple people, therefore, for she cannot be trusted and should not be acknowledged or listened to. So. And just as an example, because, you know, she was so morally suspect. I watched a Buzzfeed unsolved. If this found sounds familiar to anyone, it was a Buzzfeed Unsolved video seven years ago. And they put the. Like a. Like a quote from an article, a newspaper article back then in New Orleans. Here it is about Julia Anderson.

[Emma]

Okay.

[Christine]

She had not seen her son since February of 1912. She had forgotten him. Animals don't forget. But this big, coarse country woman, several times a mother, she forgot.

[Emma]

Shut the up. That's insane. Are you kidding me saying that she's. That. That a random animal is better than her?

[Christine]

Yeah.

[Emma]

A coarse country. Would you call it?

[Christine]

Was it this big coarse country woman, the several times a mother, like, fudge you.

[Emma]

Sometimes I forget how.

[Christine]

Fuck you. Thank you.

[Emma]

Cruel and evil people are to people.

[Christine]

Nasty. Dude.

[Emma]

It's moments, you know, I. You know, again, another thing to have gratitude for is like very fucking slowly but surely pretty privilege is becoming recognized.

[Christine]

Right?

[Emma]

But wow. Like, the. To just know back then, like, well, if you weren't married, you're Quasimodo over here. Like, you're just disgusto. Yuck. Oh, my.

[Christine]

You're. You're. You're a giant piece of trash and you don't deserve your own child back. Yeah.

[Emma]

Just because I don't like how plain you look.

[Christine]

I'm pretty sure you smile and be hot like that other lady. I mean, Jesus, I like looking at.

[Emma]

Cows more than you. Like, yeah.

[Christine]

And they're better mothers than you anyway. What? It's just absolutely.

[Emma]

That's so evil.

[Christine]

Evil.

[Emma]

Oh, my God.

[Christine]

Like, have some humanity. Have like a shred of respect, you piece of. Like, what is wrong with you?

[Emma]

I can't. And you know, some plain ass man was writing it.

[Christine]

Like, would you literally feel good about. I mean, I guess because you're just blatantly saying it and putting your name on it.

[Emma]

I think they were just used to it. Like, I don't even know if, like.

[Christine]

This kind of conversation, they're like, oh, yep.

[Emma]

I think. I mean, I know. Like, it was certainly like an insult at the time. Like, it was still. Like, it still hurt her feelings. But, like, I think because we are so far removed from that being okay at this point, I feel like it's more jarring to us than it probably even was to her, you know, like.

[Christine]

She'S probably like, of course that's how it's gonna go, you know? Like, that's how you treat me.

[Emma]

I'm a country animal or some shit. Yeah.

[Christine]

Yeah. I'm sure that's how you're all going to talk about. About me.

[Emma]

I. Did you, did you ever. Did you ever get the. The quote said to you from your mother? Probably, boys don't make passes at girls who wear glasses.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I mean, she didn't say that because she didn't know idioms, but she basically said some other things that were along those lines.

[Emma]

It was said and I remember thinking like, I knew I had. I knew. Yeah. First of all, thank God I'll keep wearing them.

[Christine]

Get me two pairs.

[Emma]

Second of all, I. I should have known there was a feminist bone in my body from day one because as soon as she said that, I went. That feels up. And you're not even noticing.

[Christine]

Extremely not.

[Emma]

So I say all that to think, like, I wonder if they even noticed that saying things like that was so out of control, stupid.

[Christine]

Or if it was just like, oh, but she is, so why not report the news? It's like, well, no, yeah, that's not. That's. Yeah, I'm okay.

[Emma]

Crazy.

[Christine]

Crazy, really. So this clash now between these two women, which has become almost like a culture. Culture clash. One was wealthy, married, socially accepted, or wealthy, you know, adjacent, like, well, to do married and socially accepted. The other was poor, unmarried, working class. This became a reflection of like gender hierarchy. Class hierarchy, rather than like, whose child is this actually? So Julia returned to Mississippi devastated after the court ruled that the boy would stay in Opelousis. As Bobby Dunbar, she later said, quote, I knew in my heart that boy was mine, but I was just a poor working woman. I had no lawyer, no money, and nobody would listen. I mean, it's like a nightmare. Like a real life nightmare.

[Emma]

So she just had to like go home in her. And I'm assuming this. Is this actually her kid? Do we know that for sure or are we just still. We'll never know.

[Christine]

I know, but you. Well, I don't know actually, but we get some more clarity later.

[Emma]

Well, I mean, I just, I can't. The fact that currently the story is ending with like, if she's believing this.

[Christine]

Is her child and she has to go home, give her just to a different family. Yeah.

[Emma]

And just be like, I hope that they treat him better than I could, cuz I'm a big fat cow. So. Right. Like they all told, I probably wear glasses. I don't know. Yeah.

[Christine]

It. She ended up essentially passing this story along. She. She later had more children. She. I'll tell you in a moment. But she basically maintained her entire life that that was her son.

[Emma]

Okay.

[Christine]

So Walter's trial, the Guy who? The tinkerer. His trial the following year offered her a brief chance to testify again. And when she did, she testified that this was her child. She gave his child to this guy to take on a trip or whatever so he could. Could like, see a little of the world. She'd never given up him up permanently. Walters had taken him with her permission and was bringing him back. Several witnesses corroborated seeing Walters and the boy together long before Bobby Dunbar even disappeared. But the court said, we actually like the other narrative better, and it sounds better, so we're going to go with that. After Walter's conviction, which was later overturned, Julia settled in Poplarville, Mississippi. She married, she raised additional children, but she continued for the rest of her life to tell family members that her son Bruce had been been taken, kidnapped and renamed, and her descendants would pass that belief down for generations. So for generations, she said, someone kidnapped my son and took him.

[Emma]

And I. You must have already said this, and I'm just blanking or I didn't hear it or something, but has no one just asked this kid, which one's your mom?

[Christine]

So he was just in shock, I think, and being four, I think he was so overwhelmed when these. You know, he'd been away from.

[Emma]

From.

[Christine]

If it was. If he was Bobby Dunbar, he'd been abducted and taken on this like crazy, you know, and this person is physically abusing him. And, like, you know, four sounds like a kid, but, like, Leona's four. And I'm like, I don't think she would. I mean, she would recognize me, I assume. But, like, there's just an element of, like, I think they bombarded this kid with this, like. And some people argue, well, this one family is giving him a pony and a bicycle and saying, like, I'm your mom. Call me Mom. Mom. And, like, I'm not saying, oh, this kid said, I want another bike. I'm gonna stay here. But, like, think about if you had been traveling for a year with a man who whipped you and did God.

[Emma]

Knows what else, and now you feel.

[Christine]

Safe, and now you're at least with someone who loves you and calls you her son. You know, like. And then probably the confusion of, like, seeing if that was his real mom, you know, I mean, so that's kind of where he was kind of just in shocked silence as far as the newspapers said, like.

[Emma]

And we're also forgetting that somebody's missing their kid.

[Christine]

Correct.

[Emma]

There's still interesting kid out there.

[Christine]

But now that they've decided it's not the Dunbars Nobody really cares, you know.

[Emma]

Oh my God.

[Christine]

Yeah. So the boy raised as Bobby Dunbar grew up believing he was a Dunbar son. He married, had children, lived out his life in Louisiana and died in 1966. Family members described him as gentle but reserved. And some recalled a lingering sense that something wasn't right about the story of his big return home to Auburn. Lucis Julia Anderson, meanwhile living in Mississippi, often spoke of her lost child Bruce, and maintained her belief that he had been wrongly taken from her. It became part of her family's history to this day. And this case has lingered in local memory as both a miracle and a tragedy. Like you said, either way, it's devastating. Somebody lost their child one way or another. And now we fast forward to the year 2004. 4. So in 2004, Bobby Dunbar's granddaughter, Margaret Dunbar Cutright, decided she wanted to dig into her family's history. And although some people in the family were a little opposed to it, saying things like, well, what good would it do? Let's leave it in the past. I'm like, no, find out the truth and like, deal with it. You know, either way, if it's tragic, it's tr, you know, just come on, on, let's, let's find out the truth. And I, I have zero chill for that kind of thing. So that I want to give that caveat. But so she decided to. She found a scrapbook and it had all these like crazy pictures and cutouts and things and she started piecing everything together. I mean, you and I know like the sick, like hold this could take over you.

[Emma]

Yeah, oh yeah.

[Christine]

And so she starts digging and of course is immediately drawn to finding out this story. And when it's presented to her, hey, how about you do a DNA test? She says, let's do it. So she agree, or so she gets Bobby's younger brother Alonzo to agree to a DNA test to see if it matches. And they got Bobby Dunbar's son to give the other sample to see if they were brothers, if they had been related. The results proved definitively that the boy raised as Bobby Dunbar was not an iota biologically related to the Dunbar family. H. Not a one.

[Emma]

And meanwhile, Julia's over there going, could have told you that. Yep, could have told you. Been over here telling you that this whole time.

[Christine]

The discovery validated Julia Anderson's claim nearly a century later and forced both families to re examine their histories. For the Dunbars, of course, it meant acknowledging that their grief may have led them to kind of accept this alternate identity. This Mistaken identity and. And just cling to it. And for the Andersons, it was some vindic and closure, but also confirmation that, like, yes, we were right to have believed that our son was taken or also our ancestor was taken.

[Emma]

Yeah. I was gonna say in the. In the grand scheme of like a butterfly effect, like your whole family line is where it is today.

[Christine]

You even heard someone. Granddaughter. Yeah, you even heard the granddaughter. Her middle name's still Dunbar. Right. Like, it's clearly part of the family. But also, I want to say too, like, they've never. I want to be clear, they've never tested the Anderson's DNA with his. So, you know, I can't definitively say, oh, this is Bruce Anderson. He was Bruce Anderson this whole time. Although that's kind of what people have gleaned from this story.

[Emma]

Sure.

[Christine]

But at the very least, it was certainly not actually Bobby Dunbar. And when Bobby Dunbar's son talked about, like, oh, I would ask my dad, like, about his disappearance and stuff and what it was. Was like. And apparently once he seemed to recall another little boy being with him. Oh, and dying like that. He was with this other little boy and that tinkerer guy, and he said, the other kid died. And some people think, like, maybe this is how he fell into this role to begin with. That he was like, I guess I'm Bobby Dunbar now. Like, this traumatic event and, you know, leads up to this new family. And when Bobby Dunbar's son asked him once they were out fishing or something, like, hey, are you really Bobby Dunbar? Do you know, do you have any questions about it? He said, I know who I am and I know who you are, and nothing else makes a difference. And his son was like, okay, hey.

[Emma]

The whole world wants to know, like, what's going on here.

[Christine]

Yeah, okay, okay, sure, sure, sure. I hear you.

[Emma]

Which, like, if he knew or, like.

[Christine]

I don't think he must necessarily knew, I feel like maybe it was something deep down where he just felt like something was off. Yeah, maybe because, I mean, four is so little. I barely remember that age, you know? And, like, if you had been convinced into something and then just told your whole life that it was true, I feel like you would have a hard time, like, differentiating truth and fiction a little bit.

[Emma]

I can totally understand that as, like a human to human, but at the same time, that's the most fucking dad answer. When there's a massive mystery that you may or may not have the information on and you just give us a vague little.

[Christine]

But I love that that was the dad so that was a grandpa and his son. And then the daughter was born and was like, fudge that I'm finding out, give me your DNA. And I was like, that. That makes me so happy. Women in stem, like, stem in their living rooms, on the computer.

[Emma]

Oh, my gosh.

[Christine]

Yeah. So it's really, really wild. Not a genetic match at all. Not biologically related at all. So today, historians and journalists interpret this case as a study in collective belief, collective denial. Like wanting to believe a narrative, wanting to believe a story because it just feels better, it sounds better to your own mind. And they didn't want to admit to themselves that, like, maybe they were taking a child from an actual mother, you know, so they dehumanized her, made her less than an animal. It's just, like, all very obvious with hindsight, but still, it's kind of, you know, shocking still.

[Emma]

Yeah.

[Christine]

So the community, they wanted this parade, this happy ending. They wanted the grieving family to have closure. The family, of course, wanted that their son back. And the society was then media was predisposed to trust, privilege, you know, over poverty. And so, yeah, you see that and like, even how we talked a lot about this, but, like, how. How affection, environment can shape your identity. The fact that Bobby was basically, like, cornered into being Bobby, whether he liked it or not. And obviously he had a hap. I mean, not obviously, but according to sources, he had a very happy and chill, fulfilling life. But at the same time, it's just, like, amazing how he just stepped into a new life, a new family, and, you know, didn't even know.

[Emma]

Wow.

[Christine]

Really wild. Really wild. So. And we still don't know what happened to actual Bobby Dunbar, which is also so crazy.

[Emma]

I mean, like, two missing cases in one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. And very rarely do you tell a mystery where even the main character doesn't.

[Christine]

Know what's going on. Hey, that's a really good point. And I don't know if I've ever told one like that, where it's like, no.

[Emma]

Like, it seems like I would argue. I think every person in this.

[Christine]

This.

[Emma]

It doesn't have an answer. Like, usually at least somebody's hiding something. And maybe in this story, maybe someone's hiding something. But it sounds like everyone was equally confused and just went, yeah, it sounds.

[Christine]

Like everyone was desperate for their own truth to be true. Right?

[Emma]

Like, yeah.

[Christine]

Oh, it's terrible. But, yeah, so that's. That's my story for the day.

[Emma]

Wow. It's a great story. I mean, it's a bad story, but it's well, thanks, but, you know, you've told it well.

[Christine]

I appreciate, Appreciate it.

[Emma]

All right. Well, is it still snowing outside?

[Christine]

It's not snowing, but there's a nice little layer of snow on the ground and on the trees. And I have to pack for Hawaii, so I have to dig out some dresses. Yeah, I don't know, like, I don't even know what to wear.

[Emma]

Are you. Are you gonna go like swimming and stuff? Like, is this a whole week where you're doing all wedding stuff or are you getting like days to have a vacay?

[Christine]

So I get to see my friend Gina on Wednesday. I met her in Hawaii. I'm really excited. And she lives, lives there. And then I get to the wedding is on Thursday and there's a rum safari. And then on Friday there's a luau, and then on Saturday there's like a tubing, like a lazy river style tubing.

[Emma]

Cool.

[Christine]

It'll be really fun. I'm excited.

[Emma]

Well, good luck. I. Good luck with your wallet, by the way, because the Chach keys would be insane.

[Christine]

Oh, yeah. Well, don't worry, my sticker book will be.

[Emma]

I'm telling you now that you know know. I'm telling you, nothing has given me more peace than a sticker book recently. The it will change you. And now that you know that you have justification to go buy more stickers.

[Christine]

Yeah. And honestly, that is all I needed. I needed one little justification. And thank you for giving it to me.

[Emma]

You are welcome. All right, we'll see everybody next week when you're back from Hawaii and can give us an update on the rum.

[Christine]

Safari filled with rumors.

[Emma]

And that's why we drink. It is currently spooky season and I am seeing all sorts of yard decorations as I drive home at night. And one of the most popular ones has been Pennywise out in the yard. My dog loves it. Just kidding. And if you love it, I gotta tell you, the director of it has a new horrifying story set in 1960s Dairy, Maine and is a story that explores the origins of Pennywise the character clown and get ready to go back to where it all began. Not only is the new HBO original series IT welcome to Dairy now streaming on HBO Max, but on the IT welcome to Dairy official podcast, each episode will be discussed after it airs on HBO Max. HBO's It welcome to Derry podcast walks you back down the Streets of Derry 27 years before the losers club first formed and pulls you down into the sewers to dig into in to the history, the lore and the horror of what makes Dairy, Maine's most sinister suburb and you'll hear from show creators plus cast and crew members as they talk about the making of the show. It is going to be delicious everybody. I'm very very excited. I actually have a friend who went to the screening tonight and let me know that it is just as incredible as I was anticipating. So please go check it out. I'm going to be watching it right next to you. Stream new episodes of HBO's IT welcome to Dairy Sundays on HBO Max and listen to the IT welcome to Derry Official Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. As a Raider scavenging a derelict world, you settle into an underground settlement. But now you must return to the.

[Christine]

Surface where ARC machines roam. If you're brave enough, who knows what you might find.

[Emma]

Arc Raiders of Multiplayer Extraction Adventure Video.

[Christine]

Game buy now for PlayStation 5, Xbox.

[Emma]

Series X and S and PC rated T for Teenager.