Podcast Summary: "Dream Mall Rats and Whistleblowing Dogs"

Podcast: And That's Why We Drink
Episode: 462 – December 14, 2025
Hosts: Christine Schiefer & Em Schulz
Episode Theme:
Unraveling the intersections between unsettling urban legends, collective dreamscapes, historical hauntings, and the haunting realities of true crime. The hosts discuss internet rabbit holes, conspiracy theories, dream worlds, and offer an in-depth dive into the paranormal history of Chicago’s Hull House and the mysterious disappearance of Lauren Cho.

Episode Overview

This episode is a rich blend of lighthearted banter, mind-bending internet conspiracy rabbit holes (from CIA psychic programs to the shared dream world of "Mall World"), and their regular deep dives into the paranormal and true crime. Christine (C) and Em (E) keep the energy candid and relatable, delving into personal stories and listener-favorite tangents before tackling two main stories: the haunted Hull House in Chicago, and the enigmatic case of Lauren (Elle) Cho.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Intro Banter & Catch Up (03:12–08:00)

• Both hosts discuss being sick, embracing hibernation season, and tracking their mood with daily apps.
• The intro sets a conversational, cozy tone as they chat about the comfort of staying indoors and the Danish concept of “hygge.”
• Notable quote:
  “It’s called hygge... it’s this Nordic concept of cozy. Everything is built for you to be comfortable.” – C (06:00)

2. Internet Rabbit Holes – Gifted Programs & Communal Dream Worlds (08:00–16:30)

The GATE & Gifted Program Conspiracies

• Christine brings up TikTok conspiracy theories about the GATE (Gifted and Talented Education) program, possibly being linked to CIA psychic research.
• Shared anecdotes and skepticism about odd school tests, pink drinks, strange hearing tests, and “telepathy tapes.”
• Fun nostalgia and speculation but with a tongue-in-cheek tone.

The "Mall World" Dream Phenomenon

• Christine describes discovering online communities who all report visiting the same mall-like setting in their dreams (“Mall World”).
• Both hosts marvel at the idea of a shared dream landscape, speculating about communal consciousness, simulation theory, and why certain motifs (like parking garages, airports, or endless bathrooms) recur in dreams.
• Notable quote:
  “It’s probably just some universal consciousness, like, human dream... I wonder if it’s just a holding place so we don’t wander off into dangerous territory.” – C (15:30)

3. Why They Drink This Week (16:30–23:00)

• Em laments a lack of lavender syrup in their tea and shares an adventure to see a stage production of “Paranormal Activity.”
• Christine shares the chaos and comedy of pet grooming, leading to a few adorable moments of show-and-tell with her dog.
• Fun quote:
  “I literally spray a little spritz of cologne on Hank... Everyone’s got an opinion on what you should and should do with your dog.” – E (31:43)

4. Main Paranormal Story: The Chicago Hull House & The Devil Baby

(Story begins ~28:00)

Background and History (28:00–41:00)

• Hull House: Built in 1856 as a mansion for Charles Hull in Chicago, later converted into tenement housing and finally a community center (“settlement house”) by social reformers Jane Addams and Ellen Gates Starr.

• Jane Addams: Pioneering social reformer, first woman Nobel Peace Prize recipient, founded the nation’s first juvenile court system, fought for labor rights, sanitation, education, and was a key figure in the women’s movement.

• Hull House Services: Shelter for immigrants, battered women, day care, public bath house, public health programs, art studio, gallery, theater, citizenship classes, and more—serving up to 2,000 people weekly.

• Notable quote:
  “She helped establish the country’s juvenile court system... one of the first of its kind in the United States to have basically a resource center for immigrants or people in general who need help.” – E (38:08–41:48)

The Devil Baby Legend (46:00–57:00)

• In 1913, rumors spread (origin unclear) that a “devil baby” with horns, hooves, red oily skin, and a penchant for cursing in multiple languages was being hidden at Hull House.
  • Versions varied between local Italian and Jewish communities (details: one blamed an atheist husband who desecrated a Virgin Mary portrait, another a parent cursing the birth of another daughter).
• The legend triggered hysteria: people traveled from across Chicago and beyond, cops were called to manage crowds, and even the Atlantic published Jane Addams’ firsthand account.
• Jane’s Response: Although overwhelmed, she went on record analyzing why so many, especially older immigrant women, found solace in the legend—it served as an external focus for communal anxiety.
  • Quote:
    “No amount of denial convinced them that [the devil baby] was not there… The old wives’ tale... reached thousands before the newspapers did.” – (Jane Addams, reading from her article) (55:00)
• The devil baby story inspired “Rosemary’s Baby.”

Ghosts & Hauntings at Hull House (57:00–63:00)

• The house, long rumored haunted before Jane moved in, allegedly houses:
  • The ghost of Mrs. Hull (the “Lady in White”) watching over guests.
  • Disembodied voices, doors slamming, footsteps, and cold spots.
  • The scent of lavender (Jane’s perfume).
  • Ghost children with “extra digits” leaving prints, giggling and dashing through the halls.
  • The attic (supposed devil baby hideout) is hotbed of activity: doors unlocking/locking, noises, and infamous “tiny evil face in the window.”
  • The basement with menacing shadow figures and flying books.
  • General consensus: Hull House is among Chicago’s most haunted landmarks.
• Humorous moment:
  “I really do just envision Hot Stuff [cartoon devil] in my head…with the little diaper.” – C (63:40)

5. True Crime Story: The Disappearance of Lauren (Elle) Cho

(Story begins ~74:22 / 1:14:22)

Lauren Cho’s Background (74:22–84:46)

• Korean-American, creative, former music teacher in NJ, left the profession during COVID to pursue a culinary dream in California.
• Moved cross-country with ex-boyfriend/friend Cody, living in a converted school bus.
• Settled in Bombay Beach (Salton Sea), a surreal, artsy, desert community famous for its artistic abandon and haunting atmosphere.
  • Personal aside: Em alludes to their own harrowing Bombay Beach van adventure (81:19).

Her Disappearance & Search Efforts (84:47–95:00)

• On June 28, 2021: After a minor spat with Cody about driving after drinking, Lauren left their group/friends on foot, leaving all her belongings—even her beloved parrot.
• Friends began searching after ten minutes; law enforcement involved within three hours.
• Massive ground, K9, and air search yielded no evidence—no footprints, clothing, or personal effects. The cryptic lack of tracks suggested either rapid foul play or bizarre misadventure.

Media Coverage, Case Closure, and Legacy (95:00–99:27)

• Compared to the Gabby Petito case (which received huge media attention), Lauren’s disappearance was largely underreported—a point discussed regarding racial and gender disparities in true crime coverage.
  • Quote:
    “It’s not that people want less coverage for a story like Gabby, it’s that we wish we got that kind of coverage for everyone.” – C (92:26)
• In October 2021, human remains were found and identified as Lauren Cho’s. The cause and manner of death have not been released; police do not suspect foul play, but no definitive explanation has been given.
• The family thanked supporters, describing Lauren as talented, creative, and missed.
• Case serves as a sobering reminder of both the dangers of desert isolation and the systemic challenges missing persons of color and their families face.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It’s fascinating… Maybe dreams are holding places so we’re kept safe. Like lab rats, so we’re not wandering off into consciousness." – C (15:30)
• “Jane Addams…was the first woman ever to receive a Nobel Peace Prize.” – E (38:57)
• “No amount of denial convinced them [the crowds] that he was not there…The old wives’ tale demonstrated the power of passing news from mouth to mouth.” – Jane Addams, as quoted by Em (55:00)
• “I literally spray a little spritz of cologne on Hank…Everyone’s got an opinion on what you should and should do with your dog.” – E (31:43)
• "In 10 minutes, anything can happen." – C (90:00)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 03:12 – Personal updates, illness, and hibernation
• 08:00 – Gifted program TikTok conspiracies
• 12:50 – Mall World shared dream discussion
• 16:30 – "Why I Drink" this week & seeing Paranormal Activity: The Play
• 28:00 – Hull House story (history, Jane Addams)
• 46:00 – The Devil Baby legend
• 57:00 – Hauntings and ghosts at Hull House
• 74:22 / 1:14:22 – Lauren Cho case introduction
• 84:46 – Circumstances of disappearance
• 95:00 – Media coverage and case closure

Tone, Language, and Flow

• The conversation is candid, friendly, and self-deprecating, with moments of vulnerability (discussing mental health, scams, and personal failures).
• Both hosts blend humor with empathy, especially when recounting historical and tragic true crime segments.
• The paranormal section brings a sense of dark whimsy and intrigue, while the true crime story is handled with sensitivity and awareness of larger social issues.

Final Thoughts

This episode is a great example of "And That's Why We Drink" at its best: a heady mix of conspiracy theory fun, candid personal stories, historical research, and thoughtful true crime storytelling. Whether they're marveling at shared dreams, haunted houses, or systemic injustice, Christine and Em keep listeners entertained, educated, and emotionally invested.

For further information, check the episode archive at andthatswhywedrink.com. Listener discretion is advised for sensitive topics.